Author Topic: Why I am very hesitant to ever return  (Read 3643 times)

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Offline Yuu

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Why I am very hesitant to ever return
« on: August 29, 2014, 04:58:50 pm »



If there are any typos I apologize but I' so angry right now my hands are shaking. Out of respect to my favorite con staff I'll try to keep my temper.

I've attended this convention for years. I was in the very first cosplay chess and even hosted an adult panel- last minute. I can say this is without a doubt my favorite con in the NW.


I was too sick to attend any conventions for the first half of the year. But it would all be okay so long as I could attend K-con. ( Those other cons aren't as good anyway) So I spent what very little money I had on gas and a hotel room and came down. Only to be told I could not have a badge because as I stood there face to face, cash in my pocket ready to be handed over, I did not have that worthless piece of plastic with my picture to prove that yes, I was in fact standing there.


The worst thing was the insincerity of it all. " Sorrry" and that was that. I would have believed it, if it were yet another of WA states ridiculous policies that you were obligated to enforce.


It isn't. It's an arbitrary and to be perfectly honest asinine rule to cover yourselves in case any trouble should go down, and I understand that. I do. I know how litigious people can be and the last thing I would want is Kumoricon to be shut down as a result of a lawsuit or lack of security.


BUT, like so many other organized groups and events these rules make no sense and only cause trouble for loyal K-con fans who are just here to have fun.
Furthermore, you must know that even if something were to happen here, going to the police and telling them " Well they showed us a picture." Wont absolve you of anything. It wont undue what was done and it wont prevent it. So I'm not buying the " security" excuse.

I could understand if the reason behind the inane rule was because you need proof of age. I'm sure that minors posing as adults can be a real problem.
I offered to show a scan of my birth certificate-as proof of age- and that was not good enough, a piece of paper requiring a notaries signature that is good enough to get a passport, for the bloody TSA! is not good enough to prove....what exactly?
This is an anime convention and while I know you work hard, it is not serious ( official /government or otherwise ) business. I connot for the life of me imagine what information I could possibly need to give you to be allowed into this inclusive gathering of fans of all ages, color, creed ect.


So now, I've wasted not only gifted money, but I'm also missing my Mother and sister's birthdays for a convention I cannot attend.

My friend is willing to drive the 5 hrs home to get my ID but at this point I just can' bring myself to hand money over to an organization that will turn away a long-time attendee under the pretense of security.


I can't stress enough that I understand the need for security, even if only to placate the hotel and local authorities, but Id hope you put as much effort toward making your attendees happy.
In the end, what I find the most absurd is that you have NO alternative system for the unfortunate attendee who has planed and saved all year instead of the " No picture ID, No con. " Policy.


Edit: organizing thoughts.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2014, 10:11:00 pm by Yuu »

Offline JaegerDarkness

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Re: Why I am very hesitant to ever return
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2014, 06:43:29 pm »



If there are any typos I apologize but I' so angry right now my hands are shaking. Out of respect to my favorite con staff I'll try to keep my temper.

I've attended this convention for years. I was in the very first cosplay chess and even hosted an adult panel- last minute. I can say this is without a doubt my favorite con in the NW.


I was too sick to attend any conventions for the first half of the year. But it would all be okay so long as I could attend K-con. ( Those other cons aren't as good anyway) So I spent what very little money I had on gas and a hotel room and came down. Only to be told I could not have a badge because as I stood there face to face, cash in my pocket ready to be handed over, I did not have that worthless piece of plastic with my picture to prove that yes, I was in fact standing there.


The worst thing was the insincerity of it all. " Sorrry" I was told. I would have believed it, if it were yet another of WA states ridiculous policies that you were obligated to enforce.


It isn't. It's an arbitrary and to be perfectly honest asinine rule to cover yourselves in case any trouble should go down, and I understand that. I do. I know how litigious people can be and the last thing I would want is Kumoricon to be shut down as a result of a lawsuit or lack of security.


BUT, like so many other organized groups and events these rules make no sense and only cause trouble for loyal K-con fans who are just here to have fun. By definition, if someone  is set on breaking the rules, they will ignore your demands for an ID and just get a fake one. It isn't hard.


At first I figured the reason behind the inane rule was because you need proof of age. I'm sure that minors posing as adults can be a real problem.


I offered to show a scan of my birth certificate- and that was not good enough, a piece of paper requiring a notaries signature that is good enough to get a passport...for the bloody TSA! is not good enough to prove....what exactly?
That I don't have a criminal record? A picture isn't required for that. There is nothing a picture will tell you that a birth certificate does not and anyway, I cannot, for the life of me imagine what information you need to be allowed into an inclusive gathering where I already am.


You guys must know that if something were to happen here, God forbid, going to the police and telling them " Well they showed us a picture." Wont absolve you of anything. It wont undue what was done and it wont prevent it. It  says nothing other than what someone looks like, which would already know if you were looking at them.


So now, I've wasted not only gifted money, but am also missing my Mother's birthday for a convention I cannot attend.


My friend is willing to drive the 5 hrs home to get my ID but at this point I just can' bring myself to hand money over to an organization that will turn away a long-time attendee under the pretense of security.


I can't stress enough that I understand the need for security. I also think it is absolutely ridiculous that there is NO alternative. No working with the unfortunate attendee who has planed and saved all year: [size=78%]No picture ID, No con. That's it get out. Good Bye.[/size]

OUCH!!!!! That's terrible. I am SO sorry you were put in this situation. I would've stormed out of the garage in a blind rage.
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Offline superjaz

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Re: Why I am very hesitant to ever return
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2014, 05:34:48 pm »
I am so sorry you had to go thru that, could they not accept a text picture of the id card or anthing or possibly fax a photo copy ?  I would think having the id card # or a picture of the id
I think its all of our con fears of forgetting something really important at home. 
I would as to talk to some one higher up like a manager about anything that could be done or accepted like maybe a fax copy of the id , because yeah that's terrible

Or even saying you couldn't get an adult badge be cause of the id, because lots of under 18s have only a birth certificate.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2014, 05:36:21 pm by superjaz »
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Offline Mollari

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Re: Why I am very hesitant to ever return
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2014, 10:22:17 pm »
Did you speak to one of the managers on shift?

Offline Yuu

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Re: Why I am very hesitant to ever return
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2014, 12:49:16 am »
I am so sorry you had to go thru that, could they not accept a text picture of the id card or anthing or possibly fax a photo copy ?  I would think having the id card # or a picture of the id
I think its all of our con fears of forgetting something really important at home. 
I would as to talk to some one higher up like a manager about anything that could be done or accepted like maybe a fax copy of the id , because yeah that's terrible

Or even saying you couldn't get an adult badge be cause of the id, because lots of under 18s have only a birth certificate.


I don't actually know where my ID is, and my roommate is at PAX. So there'd be  no one to send it.


This may be a little unreasobable of me but after the way they dealt with me (or didn't) not taking a few seconds to even think of another solution, or sending me to someone higher up, I don't really want to give them any money.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2014, 12:56:04 am by Yuu »

Offline Yuu

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Re: Why I am very hesitant to ever return
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2014, 12:53:51 am »
Did you speak to one of the managers on shift?


I don't have any names. I went to con ops on the third floor and told them the situation, and they sent me to...programing? ( the office on the first floor) where I again explained the situation. Everyone there was listening and conferred with each other that " You need a photo ID".


« Last Edit: August 31, 2014, 12:54:35 am by Yuu »

Offline Rurutie8

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Re: Why I am very hesitant to ever return
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2014, 08:43:08 am »
You said that you spent money on gas.  Did you drive to the convention?  If so, shouldn't you have your driver's license with you?

Offline Yuu

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Re: Why I am very hesitant to ever return
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2014, 09:45:53 am »
I also said "My friend is willing to drive back to get my ID."


Said friend drove, I rode down with him.

Offline Mollari

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Re: Why I am very hesitant to ever return
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2014, 04:26:50 pm »
YUU,
     Every reasonable effort is made to allow people to attend.  When registering at the convention any unique situation is referred to the registration manager on shift in the registration area.  If it was not one of those managers you spoke with, then there is a possibility that there was a misunderstanding.

Offline Yuu

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Re: Why I am very hesitant to ever return
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2014, 10:42:06 pm »
YUU,
     Every reasonable effort is made to allow people to attend.  When registering at the convention any unique situation is referred to the registration manager on shift in the registration area.  If it was not one of those managers you spoke with, then there is a possibility that there was a misunderstanding.


I didn't go though reg. I have a spine injury and can't stand for very long. I didn't think it'd make much sense to deal with that only to be turned away and or hold up the line. So I went straight to what I thought was the top.


And they made no effort, contacted no one from reg and apparently made a final decicion on something they have no authority on. They couldn't have been bothered to point me in the right direction. That's no misunderstanding. That' not caring.


How hard would it have been to say " We don't know, you'll have to speck with registration?"

Offline AllyKat

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Re: Why I am very hesitant to ever return
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2014, 12:09:58 am »
Yuu,


  As one of our registration staff stated, I too am very sorry that you were unable to attend the convention, we really do try to make every effort to allow anyone who is eligible to attend the convention.
  While it is of no use to you now, I do highly recommend to everyone to make sure you check the page www.kumoricon.org/registration where we make sure it is clear the items you need to get a badge. It's a super important part of those pre-con check lists we all make to ensure our con is a fun one, that said, things happen and our managers have to make decisions based on what information they have.
  I can't tell whom you spoke with, as you say you didn't go to reg, so I don't know if you ever made it to any of our Registration Managers or Coordinators. Going to the top can mean so many things, because it doesn't sound like you went to the Chair of the convention, (which would be the tippy top!) I can't tell if you spoke to someone of authority for the con.
  Regardless, I want you to be assured that we don't arbitrarily make rules like this, it is really important to us that our attendees are safe, secure and most importantly enjoy their convention. To do that we have to maintain some level of assurance that the people who have badges are in fact the people we are giving those badges to. Imagine if someone whom would not be permitted into the convention space simply walked up and tried to purchase a badge without a valid form of picture identification (the picture is important here). We'd have no way of knowing if the name they were giving us were a legal name. There are certain policies in effect to help us protect individuals from dangerous situations, as well as protect the convention from people whom have caused dangerous altercations in the past. One of these is to require a photo ID that matches the person to the name they wish to register.

I don't like to be that person who worries about worst case scenario, but when you deal with an event that has as many children as we do, we have to ensure that we know the name on a person's badge matches the name they are legally connected to, and if we can't, we have a great deal more liabilities than I care to think about.

As I said, I do not intend to explain away any rudeness you received, and I also wanted to let you know that if you have any sort of medical concern that disallows you from waiting in a line, you need only tell a staffer and they will assist you in bypassing a otherwise unhealthy situation for you. All I want to let you know is that, we really do intend for the most genuine safety and pleasant experience for everyone when we instigate these policies, and we hope you will understand and accept our apology that you were not able to attend Kumoricon this year.
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Offline BlackjackGabbiani

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Re: Why I am very hesitant to ever return
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2014, 08:44:48 pm »
Yuu--I don't understand something here. Registration has always required photo ID. This isn't new. Have you ever been able to get in without ID before?

Also, you can ask for disability recognition. That isn't a problem. But you have to let them know.

And...just a thought, after the fact, but could you have contacted the DMV and asked to access your record, since it's the same state? I'm sure you could have gone in and gotten a printout if you could access the office.

Offline Jon Snow

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Re: Why I am very hesitant to ever return
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2014, 09:37:14 am »
Yuu,


  As one of our registration staff stated, I too am very sorry that you were unable to attend the convention, we really do try to make every effort to allow anyone who is eligible to attend the convention.
  While it is of no use to you now, I do highly recommend to everyone to make sure you check the page www.kumoricon.org/registration where we make sure it is clear the items you need to get a badge. It's a super important part of those pre-con check lists we all make to ensure our con is a fun one, that said, things happen and our managers have to make decisions based on what information they have.
  I can't tell whom you spoke with, as you say you didn't go to reg, so I don't know if you ever made it to any of our Registration Managers or Coordinators. Going to the top can mean so many things, because it doesn't sound like you went to the Chair of the convention, (which would be the tippy top!) I can't tell if you spoke to someone of authority for the con.
  Regardless, I want you to be assured that we don't arbitrarily make rules like this, it is really important to us that our attendees are safe, secure and most importantly enjoy their convention. To do that we have to maintain some level of assurance that the people who have badges are in fact the people we are giving those badges to. Imagine if someone whom would not be permitted into the convention space simply walked up and tried to purchase a badge without a valid form of picture identification (the picture is important here). We'd have no way of knowing if the name they were giving us were a legal name. There are certain policies in effect to help us protect individuals from dangerous situations, as well as protect the convention from people whom have caused dangerous altercations in the past. One of these is to require a photo ID that matches the person to the name they wish to register.

I don't like to be that person who worries about worst case scenario, but when you deal with an event that has as many children as we do, we have to ensure that we know the name on a person's badge matches the name they are legally connected to, and if we can't, we have a great deal more liabilities than I care to think about.

As I said, I do not intend to explain away any rudeness you received, and I also wanted to let you know that if you have any sort of medical concern that disallows you from waiting in a line, you need only tell a staffer and they will assist you in bypassing a otherwise unhealthy situation for you. All I want to let you know is that, we really do intend for the most genuine safety and pleasant experience for everyone when we instigate these policies, and we hope you will understand and accept our apology that you were not able to attend Kumoricon this year.
That doesn't make much sense. Badges themselves, once received, only have a name. If anyone wanted to cause harm within the convention, they could just steal a badge from someone. There are literally hundreds wandering around in and out of the hotels, around the streets, in plain sight(as per the rules). Besides, all a badge gets you is IN the events and panels themselves; if you're looking to do harm to con-goers, why not pick on one in the park where there's no hotel security?
I would venture to assert that the ID thing is more about protecting Kumoricon from liabilities than anything else, as it really doesn't prevent anyone who's determined from getting a badge. First of all, THAT'S IMPORTANT, but I feel like it cheapens it to list all those other "good-sounding" reasons, which the ID check isn't at all a good defense against.


I wish there were more ways to work with people who forget their IDs. There's any number of ways to validate someone's identity. Check their facebook page for god's sake; see if they've got friends, pictures and comments.
Better yet, give us badges with our picture on them. Or perhaps a separate Kumoricon ID card that regular con-goers can bring back year after year, or if they forget it one year, K-con has it on its database.
I'm just throwing ideas out there, basically saying there's all kinds of ways to ensure identity. It'd be cool if I could just show you an app on my phone, like I do for the bus.


Offline Bresslol

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Re: Why I am very hesitant to ever return
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2014, 09:44:39 am »
Yuu,


  As one of our registration staff stated, I too am very sorry that you were unable to attend the convention, we really do try to make every effort to allow anyone who is eligible to attend the convention.
  While it is of no use to you now, I do highly recommend to everyone to make sure you check the page www.kumoricon.org/registration where we make sure it is clear the items you need to get a badge. It's a super important part of those pre-con check lists we all make to ensure our con is a fun one, that said, things happen and our managers have to make decisions based on what information they have.
  I can't tell whom you spoke with, as you say you didn't go to reg, so I don't know if you ever made it to any of our Registration Managers or Coordinators. Going to the top can mean so many things, because it doesn't sound like you went to the Chair of the convention, (which would be the tippy top!) I can't tell if you spoke to someone of authority for the con.
  Regardless, I want you to be assured that we don't arbitrarily make rules like this, it is really important to us that our attendees are safe, secure and most importantly enjoy their convention. To do that we have to maintain some level of assurance that the people who have badges are in fact the people we are giving those badges to. Imagine if someone whom would not be permitted into the convention space simply walked up and tried to purchase a badge without a valid form of picture identification (the picture is important here). We'd have no way of knowing if the name they were giving us were a legal name. There are certain policies in effect to help us protect individuals from dangerous situations, as well as protect the convention from people whom have caused dangerous altercations in the past. One of these is to require a photo ID that matches the person to the name they wish to register.

I don't like to be that person who worries about worst case scenario, but when you deal with an event that has as many children as we do, we have to ensure that we know the name on a person's badge matches the name they are legally connected to, and if we can't, we have a great deal more liabilities than I care to think about.

As I said, I do not intend to explain away any rudeness you received, and I also wanted to let you know that if you have any sort of medical concern that disallows you from waiting in a line, you need only tell a staffer and they will assist you in bypassing a otherwise unhealthy situation for you. All I want to let you know is that, we really do intend for the most genuine safety and pleasant experience for everyone when we instigate these policies, and we hope you will understand and accept our apology that you were not able to attend Kumoricon this year.
That doesn't make much sense. Badges themselves, once received, only have a name. If anyone wanted to cause harm within the convention, they could just steal a badge from someone. There are literally hundreds wandering around in and out of the hotels, around the streets, in plain sight(as per the rules). Besides, all a badge gets you is IN the events and panels themselves; if you're looking to do harm to con-goers, why not pick on one in the park where there's no hotel security?
I would venture to assert that the ID thing is more about protecting Kumoricon from liabilities than anything else, as it really doesn't prevent anyone who's determined from getting a badge. First of all, THAT'S IMPORTANT, but I feel like it cheapens it to list all those other "good-sounding" reasons, which the ID check isn't at all a good defense against.


I wish there were more ways to work with people who forget their IDs. There's any number of ways to validate someone's identity. Check their facebook page for god's sake; see if they've got friends, pictures and comments.
Better yet, give us badges with our picture on them. Or perhaps a separate Kumoricon ID card that regular con-goers can bring back year after year, or if they forget it one year, K-con has it on its database.
I'm just throwing ideas out there, basically saying there's all kinds of ways to ensure identity. It'd be cool if I could just show you an app on my phone, like I do for the bus.


We're a membership organiazation. Your badge is part of your membership. Thusly, we need to verify that the badge is going to the correct member.

As for forgetting ID, I always tell people that you can get a temporary ID printed out at a DMV. These are acceptable forms of Photo ID.


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Offline That_Guy

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Re: Why I am very hesitant to ever return
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2014, 10:28:33 pm »
Hi, I was one of the Registration Managers this year. I apologize that you got turned away before you even got to registration. My department is already discussing this issue and how to prevent this from happening next year. I know that doesn't change anything that had happened to you but we will strive to make sure it doesn't happen again.

We really do hate turning people away even if they have already paid for their registration, so we do try to work with the attendee to find a way to prove your identity when checking in (I can't say what they are because it is different for each attendee). Out of the good 30 people who checked into registration without a ID, I had to turn away 3 of them, only because they left to come back later with a ID because they wanted to go to 18+ panels and you need ID for those too.

So why do our attendees need ID when checking in? Well it's quite simple, to prove that you are who you say you are. Our program is custom made for us so they don't have the ability to check state or federal databases like when you check in at the airport or at the train station and we can't check previous years information. To a lot of our attendees $55 is a ton of money (heck, to some $35 is a lot!) so we need to make sure that your membership (yes, you are buying a membership, not a ticket) actually goes to you. I have worked at registration for about 6 years now and you wouldn't believe how many fake ID's I've seen or people pretending to be someone else. I had someone come up to my booth this year who tried to pretend to be his friend so he could say that he lost his badge and get it reprinted for his use. It didn't work because we check ID when even reprinting a badge (what the guy didn't know was that I had just checked in that guy's friend less than an hour before and politely ended up telling him that I knew that we was not that person, he ended up buying a badge not to cause anymore trouble for us).

So yes, ID's do play a important part in getting into the convention and protects you from someone else checking in pretending to be you. I know that there are better ways of explaining it and I know that this explainion probably isn't going to change your mind, but I do hope that it helped explain some of the reasons why we do what we do at Registration when it comes to ID's.

Plus Ally kinda already said what I was going to say anyway.

Offline dark4ever

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Re: Why I am very hesitant to ever return
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2014, 09:18:15 pm »
Yuu--I don't understand something here. Registration has always required photo ID. This isn't new. Have you ever been able to get in without ID before?
^Basically what I was going to say. As someone who works in a customer service that strictly requires ID before ever giving goods or services to a customer, it's frustrating when people don't read the rules. The need for ID is written in bold in the rules. You have to get online to look the information up. I'm not staff, so I'm going to be nice about the fact that "ignorance of the law is not an excuse"
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Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: Why I am very hesitant to ever return
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2014, 08:09:04 am »

The worst thing was the insincerity of it all. " Sorrry" and that was that. I would have believed it, if it were yet another of WA states ridiculous policies that you were obligated to enforce.


It's not just a Washington law (not policy), but one that applies nationwide.

If you couldn't find your ID, then you should've gone the the DMV and ordered a new one.  It's that simple.  You should've known about this requirement, as it's been that way since year 1.
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Offline JaegerDarkness

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Re: Why I am very hesitant to ever return
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2014, 08:17:54 am »

The worst thing was the insincerity of it all. " Sorrry" and that was that. I would have believed it, if it were yet another of WA states ridiculous policies that you were obligated to enforce.


It's not just a Washington law (not policy), but one that applies nationwide.

If you couldn't find your ID, then you should've gone the the DMV and ordered a new one.  It's that simple.  You should've known about this requirement, as it's been that way since year 1.
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Offline Yu

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Re: Why I am very hesitant to ever return
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2015, 03:11:24 am »

My department is already discussing this issue and how to prevent this from happening next year. I know that doesn't change anything that had happened to you but we will strive to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Thank you very much, that is all I wanted.


Yuu--I don't understand something here. Registration has always required photo ID. This isn't new. Have you ever been able to get in without ID before?
.. I'm not staff, so I'm going to be nice about the fact that "ignorance of the law is not an excuse"

that was not nice. That was rude, condescending and undeservedly high and mighty.
Do not lecture me. I never claimed ignorance. I know the rule well. I just happened to LOSE my ID
This goes for everyone else who decidedly to so kindly lecture me without knowing the circumstances.

I have a very, very hard time remembering and keeping track of things  especially small, card-shaped items.( brain damage due to temporary death) it is very frustrating to be left out so often because of it. To then be scolded like a child is something I won't tolerate.
 We all know the many bags of items we need to bring, yet forgetting is the eternal lament of the con-goer.


 I'm not asking for special treatment.
 I just wanted to bring attention to a pretty severe problem in hopes that some sort of...fail safe be put in place or at least considered in the future.
A flat-out " Too bad"  (from a staffer who had just allowed a 13 year old into a game of cards against humanity. He didn't know what Mecha-Hitler was for God's sake!) after all the time, effort and money we put into this convention just isn't okay.


As for the staffers who felt the need to give nasty, condescending response:
You represent the convention. I came to this forum with a problem and you responded like common  Internet trolls, just itching to put another person down. Are you proud? Was that moment of superiority worth  making a loyal supporter feel unwelcome in this community?
if you guys are okay with representing K-con staff as just another group of angry nerds hungry for a power trip than I supposed that's you're prerogative but it isn't a community I want any part of.

I have loved and strongly supported every K-con since the beginning. I jumped at the opportunity to help with or host last-minute or under-staffed events and panels. I was always glad to help my favorite convention in any way but it's clearly time move on.


To everyone else who responded with respect and kindness, thank you. It is greatly appreciated but just not enough to counter the vitriol.


Thanks for the memories and fun.


[Mod edit by JeffT: Corrected quotes]
« Last Edit: August 23, 2015, 10:58:15 pm by JeffT »

Offline JeffT

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Re: Why I am very hesitant to ever return
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2015, 10:59:49 pm »
As for the staffers who felt the need to give nasty, condescending response:
You represent the convention. I came to this forum with a problem and you responded like common  Internet trolls, just itching to put another person down. Are you proud? Was that moment of superiority worth  making a loyal supporter feel unwelcome in this community?

I'm sorry for the unhappy situation you were in, but I don't see a single staffer in this thread who gave rude responses.

I urge anyone who doubts that to review the entire thread and see for themselves.

(Staff are identified by their titles under their forum names. Non-staff have the fun rank-based names like "Oni", "Bunnygirl", and so on.)

Now, speaking as moderator, I corrected the quotes in your post. One of the sentences was attributed to BlackjackGabbiani when it was in fact posted by dark4ever.
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Offline TheInsecureTaco

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Re: Why I am very hesitant to ever return
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2015, 02:32:36 am »
I have loved and strongly supported every K-con since the beginning. I jumped at the opportunity to help with or host last-minute or under-staffed events and panels. I was always glad to help my favorite convention in any way but it's clearly time move on.


To everyone else who responded with respect and kindness, thank you. It is greatly appreciated but just not enough to counter the vitriol.


Thanks for the memories and fun.


Ok, some people are disrespectful, and others are ignorant, and don't fully understand your situation, but I don't think you should let those people decide if you continue to attend K-con. You have had great memories here. Yes, some people are rude, but I really think you should stay. I am not staff, just a fellow friend, saying that you shouldn't let a few bullies stop you from having a good time. However, in the end it is your decision, so you can decide to come or not, but I think you should give it a shot. Just some friendly advice, I hope you take it to heart.


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Offline Penguin4478

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Re: Why I am very hesitant to ever return
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2015, 11:18:24 am »
If you found yourself not wanting to go, that's perfectly fine, but you shouldn't really be blaming the policy, especially one as consistent as requiring official picture ID. If you lose your ID that is unfortunately your responsibility and the world is full of unfair and downright illogical things but we have to cope with it anyways.


This kind of policy is kind of ridiculous in many ways but since it is so consistently used among tons of organizations everywhere we just follow it without questioning it. If you were frustrated and didn't want to attend the con again then it's entirely up to you whether or not you go, but I personally don't think it is fair to blame it on a rule that the staff are told to follow. I don't want to lecture you or anything but I'm just saying that an ID is a very important thing and if someone loses it they have to be prepared to face the consequences despite any nonsensical rules causing said consequences.


Anyways, that experience sounds terrible and I can relate since something similar happened to me before, which is why I now make a checklist before going somewhere important where I would need certain things, and then make sure I have them. I hate the policy too because it causes a lot of anxiety for me but I wouldn't want to stop attending a convention or doing something that I really enjoyed due to my own mistake. However, it is entirely up to you whether or not you want to go again, although I would think that if you really like the convention in the way you described it you should give it another shot now that the staff has given you their thoughts and opinions.
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Offline Yu

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Re: Why I am very hesitant to ever return
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2015, 04:56:02 pm »
I have loved and strongly supported every K-con since the beginning. I jumped at the opportunity to help with or host last-minute or under-staffed events and panels. I was always glad to help my favorite convention in any way but it's clearly time move on.


To everyone else who responded with respect and kindness, thank you. It is greatly appreciated but just not enough to counter the vitriol.


Thanks for the memories and fun.


Ok, some people are disrespectful, and others are ignorant, and don't fully understand your situation, but I don't think you should let those people decide if you continue to attend K-con. You have had great memories here. Yes, some people are rude, but I really think you should stay. I am not staff, just a fellow friend, saying that you shouldn't let a few bullies stop you from having a good time. However, in the end it is your decision, so you can decide to come or not, but I think you should give it a shot. Just some friendly advice, I hope you take it to heart.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         -your friendly neighborhood forum-stalker


Thanks for the kind and inspiring words. You make a good point and I do agree with what you're saying, I considered this argument myself.
But everytime, that thought process ended on the fact that it was the same person I considered a friend whom I helped out who didn't even try to help when I needed it. ( another was a person I was in school with)


My point isn't to call anyone out, but to say I that I just don't deal well with being let down.


Still, your point remains. And "That guy" sounds like a man of his word. So I trust him when he says he has his staff working on it.


It's too late for this year but there is always next year. Thanks again and have fun this year!

Offline Yu

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Re: Why I am very hesitant to ever return
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2015, 05:09:57 pm »
If you lose your ID that is unfortunately your responsibility and the world is full of unfair and downright illogical things but we have to cope with it anyways


...preaching to the choir.


You ( and many others here ) are misunderstanding why I'm upset.


I lost my ID, that responsibility is mine and only mine.


What the staff is responsible for is their own attitudes, which I found very poor. That is what I have a problem with.



« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 05:12:07 pm by Yu »

Offline Penguin4478

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Re: Why I am very hesitant to ever return
« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2015, 09:54:13 am »
Oh, my bad.
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Offline ldkstar

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Re: Why I am very hesitant to ever return
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2015, 03:02:41 pm »



If there are any typos I apologize but I' so angry right now my hands are shaking. Out of respect to my favorite con staff I'll try to keep my temper.

I've attended this convention for years. I was in the very first cosplay chess and even hosted an adult panel- last minute. I can say this is without a doubt my favorite con in the NW.


I was too sick to attend any conventions for the first half of the year. But it would all be okay so long as I could attend K-con. ( Those other cons aren't as good anyway) So I spent what very little money I had on gas and a hotel room and came down. Only to be told I could not have a badge because as I stood there face to face, cash in my pocket ready to be handed over, I did not have that worthless piece of plastic with my picture to prove that yes, I was in fact standing there.


The worst thing was the insincerity of it all. " Sorrry" and that was that. I would have believed it, if it were yet another of WA states ridiculous policies that you were obligated to enforce.


It isn't. It's an arbitrary and to be perfectly honest asinine rule to cover yourselves in case any trouble should go down, and I understand that. I do. I know how litigious people can be and the last thing I would want is Kumoricon to be shut down as a result of a lawsuit or lack of security.


BUT, like so many other organized groups and events these rules make no sense and only cause trouble for loyal K-con fans who are just here to have fun.
Furthermore, you must know that even if something were to happen here, going to the police and telling them " Well they showed us a picture." Wont absolve you of anything. It wont undue what was done and it wont prevent it. So I'm not buying the " security" excuse.

I could understand if the reason behind the inane rule was because you need proof of age. I'm sure that minors posing as adults can be a real problem.
I offered to show a scan of my birth certificate-as proof of age- and that was not good enough, a piece of paper requiring a notaries signature that is good enough to get a passport, for the bloody TSA! is not good enough to prove....what exactly?
This is an anime convention and while I know you work hard, it is not serious ( official /government or otherwise ) business. I connot for the life of me imagine what information I could possibly need to give you to be allowed into this inclusive gathering of fans of all ages, color, creed ect.


So now, I've wasted not only gifted money, but I'm also missing my Mother and sister's birthdays for a convention I cannot attend.

My friend is willing to drive the 5 hrs home to get my ID but at this point I just can' bring myself to hand money over to an organization that will turn away a long-time attendee under the pretense of security.


I can't stress enough that I understand the need for security, even if only to placate the hotel and local authorities, but Id hope you put as much effort toward making your attendees happy.
In the end, what I find the most absurd is that you have NO alternative system for the unfortunate attendee who has planed and saved all year instead of the " No picture ID, No con. " Policy.


Edit: organizing thoughts.


I know this post is a year old, but there are some things I wanted to address. Requiring ID, is not in anyway arbitrary, and is a huge help, not just for the convention, but anywhere  else you might be required to show ID.


Retail Store: If you show me or my staff a fake ID with a stolen credit card when you are buying something,then I am off the hook when the chargeback and the dispute comes through, because we did our due diligence to verify your identity. This is the same thing with conventions. If you are a sex offender/criminal/etc, and you give a fake ID. The convention has done it's job by asking for ID and attempting to verify who you are, the criminal simply manages to trick the system.


I know it seems like people are piling on, but this one of those situations where people don't understand something, and assume its arbitrary or not necessary.  As for the scan of the birth certificate, I would not have taken that either. I might have taken it with an old school ID or something, but birth certificates can be faked online in seconds. I am not a registration staffer, so these are just my reflections as someone who worked customer service/retail for seven years, and even now in my professional job I still deal with a lot of identification issues.


Regarding the ID's not protecting the con from legal consequences, it is simply not true. The ID's themselves may not be super shields, but conventions rarely take the fall for the poor behavior of attendees or staff. Even that convention that shall not be named didn't get in trouble for the DJ and the cosplayer incident. For example if an attendee destroys a room, the con takes his badge, the hotel boots him, and the hotel goes after the attendee, not the con. In fact, having the ID information helps maintain good relationships with the venues, so we can say "hey that guy that broke the windows in his room, here is his information".



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