New: Sakura Con voting members (Needs Action Now!)

[SailorNaboo]

Interested in having a vote in how Sakura Con is run?  Not able to get to Seattle this weekend?  

For just $20 (and you can use paypal) you can become a voting member and have a say in who you would like to be in each position.  Once you become a voting member, they give you special access on the message board so you can read about the people running.

Here are some of my PERSONAL opinions.  Once you are a voting member, you can read about others that are running and your opinion may be different than mine.

Our very own Sean (last year's con chair) is running for Vice Con Chair.  (There are many others running as well, you may feel someone else is more qualified....but there will be information for you to go though).

Also, in my personal opinion, (and the opinion I have heard almost countless people in our area say) Sakura had been going downhill for a while, but I believe John Krall brought new life to the Con and he is running for Chair again.  He was a big help to Kumoricon last year and he has even attended some of our Portland meetings.

Personally, I was ready to give up on Sakura, but I think John really has turned it back around again and with another year can really make it special!  (My opinion-  again, make sure to check the information on others that are running)

Here is a link that explains what needs to be done to vote:
(your vote can be emailed as well once you have become a voting member)

http://www.sakuracon.org/index.php?l=contacts/election.php

If you can, and you care about this, please support someone who has done a lot to help Kumoricon!  (Or someone else you feel deserves it.  You may have a different opinion than I...that's OK too!)

(PS. If you are one of my good friends in RL and you don't have $20 this week, let me know and we can work something out.  There is no voting "litmus test" for this.  I will not ask who you are voting for.)

[EvilMonkey]

Just to be clear on this, while I am running for Vice Chair, it is in no way Kumoricon's policy to endorse any canidates.  If someone decides to endorse a canidate, they do it as a personal endorsement and it is in no way an endorsement from the convention itself.

[SailorNaboo]

Just to be clear on this, while I am running for Vice Chair, it is in no way Kumoricon's policy to endorse any canidates.  If someone decides to endorse a canidate, they do it as a personal endorsement and it is in no way an endorsement from the convention itself.

I think I have about 6 references to the word "Personal" and/or "In my Opinion" and I also made very clear that if one becomes a voting member, he or she will be given access to a place where many of the people running have posted resumes so people can make his or her own decisions.  Heck, Sean!  Someone who is also running for Vice Chair may post a resume this week and I may change my mind and vote for that person instead!    

I'm still glad you clarified this though!

It's Beth aka Sailor Naboo the PERSON posting what I posted.  I would find it morally wrong if I were posting as "Beth, the person who was a staff member at Sakura in 2002 (Cosplay Judge) or Beth who was a Sakura Con message board moderator in 2001, or Beth, the Kumoricon staff member for whichever year.

And since I find ANYTHING other than a person very clearly making a personal recommendation morally wrong,  I would find it absolutely morally REPUGNANT and UNETHICAL for an Organization or Convention to make staff recommendations for another unrelated Convention.  But I can't imagine any of the local conventions doing something like that.

[Anonymous]

Beth, I highly assume you did not think before you posted this.

Interested in having a vote in how Sakura Con is run?  Not able to get to Seattle this weekend?  

For just $20 (and you can use paypal) you can become a voting member and have a say in who you would like to be in each position.  Once you become a voting member, they give you special access on the message board so you can read about the people running.

So people who did not attend Sakura-Con and never have in the past should be going to this meeting to vote for people they have no idea about nor probably do not care about either?

Here are some of my PERSONAL opinions.  Once you are a voting member, you can read about others that are running and your opinion may be different than mine.

I think your use of "personal" here is quite correct.

Our very own Sean (last year's con chair) is running for Vice Con Chair.  (There are many others running as well, you may feel someone else is more qualified....but there will be information for you to go though).

Even though Kumoricon does not officially endorse Sean for vice-chair, Sean I noticed that you never did shot Beth down here for posting this message in such a manner. Does this mean that unofficially Kumoricon supports Sean as vice-chair?

By not rebuting (Sean) what Beth has posted here, I am a bit confused here. Can you, Sean, explain your exact position on what Beth has said?

Also, in my personal opinion, (and the opinion I have heard almost countless people in our area say) Sakura had been going downhill for a while, but I believe John Krall brought new life to the Con and he is running for Chair again.  He was a big help to Kumoricon last year and he has even attended some of our Portland meetings.

Beth, please list what makes it seem like Sakura-Con has been going downhill. You're being quite vague here, and your comment here upsets me.

Also, what has John done to support Kumoricon? Why is Kumoricon getting all of this support?

Personally, I was ready to give up on Sakura, but I think John really has turned it back around again and with another year can really make it special!  (My opinion-  again, make sure to check the information on others that are running)

Again, why has John turned it back around? It's not a one-man show, Beth.

Here is a link that explains what needs to be done to vote:
(your vote can be emailed as well once you have become a voting member)

http://www.sakuracon.org/index.php?l=contacts/election.php

If you can, and you care about this, please support someone who has done a lot to help Kumoricon!  (Or someone else you feel deserves it.  You may have a different opinion than I...that's OK too!)

(PS. If you are one of my good friends in RL and you don't have $20 this week, let me know and we can work something out.  There is no voting "litmus test" for this.  I will not ask who you are voting for.)

So Beth, are you admitting to buying votes? That is not appreciated by other members who are actually voting legitimately. You do not see me or anyone else going on other forums and trying to pay for people to vote for my political interests. This is quite tacky of you, and I honestly think you should not be voting period as well as anyone you have paid for to vote.

And besides, why have you not asked to do this on the Sakura-Con forums? At least there the people who post on there have primarily been to the convention.

Colin Keigher
Live Programming Staff Coordinator
Sakura-Con 2005

Secretary
Anime Evolution 2005

[SailorNaboo]

Beth, I highly assume you did not think before you posted this.

Actually, I thought quite hard about it!  So many of us in Oregon (especially in the Eugene/Springfield area where Kumoricon started) have wanted to be involved in Sakura Con at the voting level and after the meeting last Saturday, we now have detailed information on how to do this.  I'm thrilled to be able to be involved at this early stage!

Interested in having a vote in how Sakura Con is run?  Not able to get to Seattle this weekend?  

For just $20 (and you can use paypal) you can become a voting member and have a say in who you would like to be in each position.  Once you become a voting member, they give you special access on the message board so you can read about the people running.

So people who did not attend Sakura-Con and never have in the past should be going to this meeting to vote for people they have no idea about nor probably do not care about either?

I can't imagine someone who hasn't attended the con being interested in having a say in it.  But now that Sakura is over for the year, many of us are not checking the boards on a regular basis and may not be aware of the change.

Here are some of my PERSONAL opinions.  Once you are a voting member, you can read about others that are running and your opinion may be different than mine.

I think your use of "personal" here is quite correct.

Of course it is.  That was the whole intent.

Our very own Sean (last year's con chair) is running for Vice Con Chair.  (There are many others running as well, you may feel someone else is more qualified....but there will be information for you to go though).

Even though Kumoricon does not officially endorse Sean for vice-chair, Sean I noticed that you never did shot Beth down here for posting this message in such a manner. Does this mean that unofficially Kumoricon supports Sean as vice-chair?

Why should he shoot me down?  It's not in the Convention area of the board, it's in the General Discussion area and I CLEARLY said many times in many different ways that it was my own opinion in the first post and all additional posts.  He did exactly what he I feel he should have and that is to emphasize that the con does NOT in any way make endorsements.

Also, in my personal opinion, (and the opinion I have heard almost countless people in our area say) Sakura had been going downhill for a while, but I believe John Krall brought new life to the Con and he is running for Chair again.  He was a big help to Kumoricon last year and he has even attended some of our Portland meetings.

Beth, please list what makes it seem like Sakura-Con has been going downhill. You're being quite vague here, and your comment here upsets me.

It would take me far too long to recount the countless personal discussions I've had over the past years with friends from this area.  Comparing the Assault and Flattery section on the Sakura board this year to the sections after 2003 and 2004 should give a huge indication that there were widespread issues compared to 2005.

Also, what has John done to support Kumoricon? Why is Kumoricon getting all of this support?

I feel like this question is worded like the famous, "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?" yes or no questions and you haven't noticed the very clear disclaimers in each post of the thread.  One more time: Kumoricon is not supporting anyone as it says in all the posts from both Sean and myself.

Kumoricon is NOT supporting John.  I am personally.  Look at my previous post.  I find the idea of a convention as a whole or as a staff member endorsing a candidate for another convention wrong (and I use quite strong words to say this).  

As for what he has done, simply, he put in some volunteer time, freely gave advice and has come to a few general meetings.  This impressed ME.

Personally, I was ready to give up on Sakura, but I think John really has turned it back around again and with another year can really make it special!  (My opinion-  again, make sure to check the information on others that are running)

Here is a link that explains what needs to be done to vote:
(your vote can be emailed as well once you have become a voting member)

http://www.sakuracon.org/index.php?l=contacts/election.php

If you can, and you care about this, please support someone who has done a lot to help Kumoricon!  (Or someone else you feel deserves it.  You may have a different opinion than I...that's OK too!)

(PS. If you are one of my good friends in RL and you don't have $20 this week, let me know and we can work something out.  There is no voting "litmus test" for this.  I will not ask who you are voting for.)

So Beth, are you admitting to buying votes?

You have got to be kidding!   I very, very clearly say: "There is no voting "litmus test" for this. I will not ask who you are voting for."  Do you understand what that statement means?  In my very first post I mention make it very clear that there is now an elections board to find out about the others that are running.

Some of my good friends in the area live on very fixed incomes and are active in both conventions and may have trouble coming up with $20 within a day or two.  I won't name names because it's not my place to announce which of my friends are having things kind of tough right now. I make it very clear that I'm willing to help out these friends with no "Litmus  Test!"  They are free to vote for whomever they choose and I specifically say that I won't ask them who they are voting for.

And besides, why have you not asked to do this on the Sakura-Con forums? At least there the people who post on there have primarily been to the convention.

Colin Keigher
Live Programming Staff Coordinator
Sakura-Con 2005

Secretary
Anime Evolution 2005

Because the information is ON the Sakura forums and people who frequent those boards after the con know about this. As I mentioned earlier, there are people in my area, the Eugene/Springfield area, that have wanted to be involved in Sakura from the beginning of the year cycle but distance has been an issue for us.  Since the window of time to become involved in this is so small, this is an efficient way of getting the word out to the people in this area who have wanted to be involved since Bakacon.

I had the time of my life this year at Sakura Con!  Maybe it was because it was my second year working with the Canadian Guests (The 404s!) in so many events (Opening Ceremonies, Closing Ceremonies, plus 2 shows!) but there was also an overall feeling that reminded me of how it felt to go to the con in 2001 or so.  Yes, it takes more than one person to run the show, but (again my opinion only here) I've found that the leader is a big part of the inspiration for that kind of thing.

[Anonymous]

Actually, I thought quite hard about it! So many of us in Oregon (especially in the Eugene/Springfield area where Kumoricon started) have wanted to be involved in Sakura Con at the voting level and after the meeting last Saturday, we now have detailed information on how to do this. I'm thrilled to be able to be involved at this early stage!

So you're telling me it is appropriate to have newcomers to the convention vote in a set of elections for people that they have probably never met? You do realise that the $20 lasts just for that one day and that once the elections are over, their membership expires? You do also realise that they have no contract to sign to stay onboard for 2006, so how can we be sure that they'll help out? How can we be sure that you're going to have them vote and then have them disappear and not help out the people that they voted for?

You are not thinking this through, and some of us are smart enough to see this.

Why should he shoot me down? It's not in the Convention area of the board, it's in the General Discussion area and I CLEARLY said many times in many different ways that it was my own opinion in the first post and all additional posts. He did exactly what he I feel he should have and that is to emphasize that the con does NOT in any way make endorsements.

No. What I mean here is that Sean should have been setting an example by not suggesting that this is inappropriate, which it is. By letting you post about the Sakura-Con elections in a manner in which you are, he is unofficially endorsing your actions, and that basically nullifies the chances of me actually voting for him.

Beth, get this through your head, this is the Kumoricon forums, not the Sakura-Con forums.

It would take me far too long to recount the countless personal discussions I've had over the past years with friends from this area. Comparing the Assault and Flattery section on the Sakura board this year to the sections after 2003 and 2004 should give a huge indication that there were widespread issues compared to 2005.

Again, Beth, stop being so vague. Give me a list or just stop complaining. I can see exactly through you and I know exactly why you are going about this.

I feel like this question is worded like the famous, "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?" yes or no questions and you haven't noticed the very clear disclaimers in each post of the thread. One more time: Kumoricon is not supporting anyone as it says in all the posts from both Sean and myself.

Kumoricon is NOT supporting John. I am personally. Look at my previous post. I find the idea of a convention as a whole or as a staff member endorsing a candidate for another convention wrong (and I use quite strong words to say this).

As for what he has done, simply, he put in some volunteer time, freely gave advice and has come to a few general meetings. This impressed ME.

Beth, you appear to have lost the ability of grasping the English language. First of all, this is not a yes-no question, as the question did not give an answer in the first place. Second of all, I did not ask why Kumoricon is giving all of this support, I am asking why it is getting this support, and what John has done for the convention.

What did John do to help Kumoricon? What did he do exactly? What was this advice?

You have got to be kidding! I very, very clearly say: "There is no voting "litmus test" for this. I will not ask who you are voting for." Do you understand what that statement means? In my very first post I mention make it very clear that there is now an elections board to find out about the others that are running.

Some of my good friends in the area live on very fixed incomes and are active in both conventions and may have trouble coming up with $20 within a day or two. I won't name names because it's not my place to announce which of my friends are having things kind of tough right now. I make it very clear that I'm willing to help out these friends with no "Litmus Test!" They are free to vote for whomever they choose and I specifically say that I won't ask them who they are voting for.

So you're honestly telling me that you're willing to pay for their membership regardless of their vote? I highly think that you are bluffing, because there is always a catch. I have worked as a Provincial Electorate Official in my province, and I have seen people say similiar things that you have.

Why not ask these friends personally instead of advertising on the forums? You are in fact trying to persuade people to vote, and in my mind, everyone that registers on election day should be denied a vote, as well as you should be, as this is abuse of the democratic freedoms that this convention has taken upon previously.

Because the information is ON the Sakura forums and people who frequent those boards after the con know about this. As I mentioned earlier, there are people in my area, the Eugene/Springfield area, that have wanted to be involved in Sakura from the beginning of the year cycle but distance has been an issue for us. Since the window of time to become involved in this is so small, this is an efficient way of getting the word out to the people in this area who have wanted to be involved since Bakacon.

I had the time of my life this year at Sakura Con! Maybe it was because it was my second year working with the Canadian Guests (The 404s!) in so many events (Opening Ceremonies, Closing Ceremonies, plus 2 shows!) but there was also an overall feeling that reminded me of how it felt to go to the con in 2001 or so. Yes, it takes more than one person to run the show, but (again my opinion only here) I've found that the leader is a big part of the inspiration for that kind of thing.

You're giving information, yes. As well, you are giving opinions, which is a no-no. By offering the money, that is a no-no. By discounting everybody but Sean and John, you're basically stating who you are supporting, and you are not giving credit to where credit is exactly due.

Beth, I think you are totally out of line, and I am going to fight this tooth and nail. I am not going to let you tarnish this election.

- Colin Keigher

[SailorNaboo]

I suggest you check the United States legal definition of the word libel.

************

My last comment to you, Colin is that any number of people could tell you that I'm not stupid and far from it.

If I was only willing to help out some people that were going to vote a certain way, there is no way I would have said something about it publicly.  Publicly stating that I'm willing to help out friends that don't get paid till the first of the month (or who are a little short for now) is keeping it out in the open and above board.  If I wasn't open about it, how would it look a few months down the road if it came out that I had helped some friends that are long time con goers pay for voting memberships?  

As I write this, there are about 250 hits on this thread.  Many have checked the thread more than once, but there are still many unique views and there will be even more by tomorrow if the thread is still here.  My openness shows the integrity of the offer because I have placed myself under a microscope.

[akirahojo]

Beth,

I don't think this would have created so much fluff if these were not in there, regardless of personal opinion or not, had this just been informational:

Our very own Sean (last year's con chair) is running for Vice Con Chair.

Sakura had been going downhill for a while, but I believe John Krall brought new life to the Con and he is running for Chair again. He was a big help to Kumoricon last year and he has even attended some of our Portland meetings.

(PS. If you are one of my good friends in RL and you don't have $20 this week, let me know and we can work something out. There is no voting "litmus test" for this. I will not ask who you are voting for.)

I don't doubt your integrity on being honest here, but if you meant this as a non-partisan way of explaining and asking people to take part in the Sakura Con elections, these points should have not been in there.

Chad Ma
Press Room Staff
Sakura Con 2005

Con Chair
Anime Evolution 2005

[RemSaverem]

phew! here i am checking the kcon forums as a way to destress after a quiz at school, and finding this as stressful as the quiz!

so here is my very personal, and very clearly not-even-remotely con related, perspective on this thread.

it happens to be the case that i got involved in organizing national conferences over a dozen years ago. at that time, i had only vaguely heard of anime, from a boyfriend who'd attended high school in japan. i organized national conferences in the pacifist/anti-militarist, anarchist, and feminist communities for over a decade before i became involved in tunac and kumoricon, which were my gateways to sakuracon.

so i hope that my opinion will be understood as coming from my involvement in national conference / convention/ meeting organizing, rather than from anything specific to the anime con community, let alone the specific individuals involved.

i was very involved in voter registration. clearly i had my own personal agenda, in the sense that i was an activist--at times, even a paid activist. i was a petitioner--at times even a paid petitioner, and i and the office for which i worked, coordinated the petitioning for the 2 initiatives to close trojan nuclear power plant, back in 1992.

in that same election, the oregon citizens alliance, or oca, was petitioning to place on the ballot, a contemptible measure that would have made it very very uncomfortable and restricted to be other than heterosexual in this state. (and i happen to be other--which does relate, in that one of the things i most appreciate about anime and manga is helping younger folks experience it as natural for there to be variety in gender and sexual identity.)

i would go out petitioning in smaller areas--cottage grove, roseburg, around the umpquaa-- and people would approach me, wanting to sign the oca ballot measure.

i would point blank know that these were people who were going to vote opposite of how i would want them to vote---but i would always offer them a voter registration card.

that was not only administrative policy, but personal ethic.

i happen to therefore believe that it is totally legitimate and desirable that there be information on this forum that tells folks how to participate in the sakuracon elections. i also likewise believe that it is totally legitimate and desirable that there be offers to facilitate folks being part of said voting process--provided that the facilitators are not (a) themselves among the candidates, nor (b) providing a contingency that they will only help those who will vote in a prescribed manner.

i believe very passionately in things like the specific, targeted voter registation drives during the civil rights movement, which included things like driving folks to the ballot box. if i had the money, i'd post a thread offering to carpool up for free, anyone who wanted to be there to vote.

i believe that there is value in the cross-pollination i have experienced between the cons. i hope that continues.

it periodically would seem that there may be venom and distrust between at least one individual at each con.  it is not my place to know the backstory. but it is certainly my hope that any experiences that are negative are understood as being between one person and another person, and are never misconstrued, nor allowed to flare into, dissonance and breaking of bonds between one con and another con, or collaboration across cons by folks from each con, especially as increasing numbers of us are blessed to be involved in both!

i have seen this happen in national organizing in the feminist, anarchist and pacifist communities (and among treesitters, but that was from federal agents provacateur).

there's my 2 cents; i'm sorry it's not $20; i'd love to empower folks to vote.  in my own experience running the artists' den, i certainly encountered many whom i feel to be worthy of support........and others, er, not so much....

 this thread reminded me that the personalities involved at the head of a con can make or break its perception of being open to new folks' involvement, which in turn can make or break its ability to evolve, or even maintain; and for me, finding and supporting candidates who are accessible and comfortable to work with is on par with finding candidates who are efficacious.

thanks for listening,
ellen.

[Anonymous]

3 postscripts:

(a) i do not believe i have met the people who replied in the above thread; if i have, please know that my comment at  the end was in no way directed to you, nor to anyone in particular. there were some folks whose efforts i experienced as extraordinary and which had wonderful results; i would be voting to reward them and in hopes they continue, not to discourage or be against others.

(b) if i don't vote, it will be because someone recently attempted to scam my paypal, and i had to pay $5 to get a new debit card at the bank because of it; so i'm reticent to pay for something online again.

(c) my primary personal hope for the election, is that if it happens to be the case that someone new helms programming, that s/he will continue the innovations that melissa allowed to take root this year.

(d) realistically, i can only imagine that many of those who will vote will only know a portion of those on the ballot, and that many of those who vote will only actually care about a one or a handful of the races. many might only know or care about those races in their own personal area of con staff involvement or congoer interest. this is generally true in most elections of any size or variety. it does not invalidate the votes of those voters.

thanks again for everyone's input and please feel loved.
rem.

[RemSaverem]

:oops:

oy vey! sorry, yes, that really was me. i added my ps's when i linked back to the kcon forums from the post on the sc forums advising sc staff to check this thread. i'm so embarrassed that i didn't realize i wouldn't still be logged in on the kcon forums!

ah, silly, computer illiterate little me  :oops:

love y'all!
rem.

[eerielunarose]

I really do not have much to add to this thread. I can see how Beth's post may have raised eyebrows, but when examined I do not see anything in the intent behind it that I consider to be malicious to Sakura Con or any party, and I'm grieved that it seems to have caused offense to some.

A lot has already been said here, but for those who do not know the community of Kumoricon and how it was formed the way I do, I would  like to add one salient point for your consideration, which affects the question of appropriateness of having any sort of post of this nature on our forums at all, regardless of its specific content: Kumoricon was formed by a number of folks from Oregon whose first or primary anime convention experience was at Sakura Con. AX was my first convention experience as I used to live down there, but I myself have attended Sakura since 2000 and before Kumoricon was formed it was always my "home con" and since then I personally had been trying to allow it to remain "the con I have non-working fun at," as much as possible, especially since there are times it is the only other convention in a year which I can afford the time and money to attend, and I have been so -heavily- involved when it comes to Kumoricon.

However, I naturally have an interest in Sakura Con and it's well-being, and I know for a fact that the majority of our staff and most of our attendees who are what you'd call hard core otaku are as well.
I personally was very proud of the work of the folks from our community who -were- involved in Sakura Con this year, and there -were- a decent number of them. If all goes well I am looking to at least volunteer some time next year myself.

So, do I find a post about Sakura Con and getting more involved in it relevant to the people who frequent this forum? For all the reasons above, the answer is a definite YES. In fact, Kumoricon was formed because Oregonians who enjoyed Sakura thought that their local community could support a convention with the same friendly Northwest spirit that we appreciated about Sakura back when we first started. So far so good. I don't think in their heart of hearts anyone who attends conventions and would bother to be involved wants anything but good for ALL our communities. Let's keep it friendly, okay?

Arlene M. Penrose

Convention Chairperson
Kumoricon 2005

[RemSaverem]

thanks, arlene. your post makes perfect sense to me, and the same ideas (albeit that i personally had not attended sc before), informed my own posts. in fact, before there ever was a kcon, all i heard about was sc!

[SailorNaboo]

:oops:

oy vey! sorry, yes, that really was me. i added my ps's when i linked back to the kcon forums from the post on the sc forums advising sc staff to check this thread. i'm so embarrassed that i didn't realize i wouldn't still be logged in on the kcon forums!

ah, silly, computer illiterate little me  :oops:

love y'all!
rem.

Ellen,
You were Sakura 2005 Staff!  You are a voting member and do not have to pay anything more to vote.  Heck if you want, we can carpool up this weekend if you are available and willing to do at least half of the drive (my car and I'll pay gas).  I was only planning an absentee ballot because I didn't have anyone to go with!  I wouldn't make time for anyone else but you!  You are a very special person.  Shoot!  Too bad I'm married and straight!  

I know you do wonderful things for the community like working for the Whitebird Clinic (a place where very low income people can get medical and dental care) and though you could be doing a job that makes tons of money, you are working for something you believe in (and I think they should give you a raise of 10x what you are currently making!  You are doing something that makes a huge difference in the world one person at a time) .  I hope you don't mind that I'm publicly stating that you are one of the people I had in mind when I was taking about helping out with voting membership fees, but then I found out you could already vote because you were staff.  I'd also like to point out that I know Ellen would vote for some different people than I would that may or may not me names mentioned in the thread.

And Arlene, our beloved con chair, thank you for your support.  I am so glad to know that you trust the ethics and intent behind my post.  I don't know how I could have put it better.  Kumoricon was started by a bunch of people that have a great deal of love for Sakura Con.  That's LOVE by the way.  (English doesn't have enough words to clearly define the different kinds of love, so it's the word I have have to go with).

If I had this thread to start over again, I would have started two threads.  One that just had the information, and one clearly marked that only contained opinion.  I can't change it now, because that would look like I (or others) were trying to cover something up.

I was surprised to hear that there was a reaction to hearing that there were some people that felt the con hadn't been as good the past few years.  This seemed like so much of a GIVEN that honestly, I had no idea that anyone involved in Sakura Con didn't know this was the honest perception from long term con goers! That people were blind to this was shocking for me to find out!  I'm sure any competent webmaster would save backups of the message boards.  A comparison of 2003 and 2004's message board to this year's board is plenty of proof of this claim.

I've since found out that there is this informal secret procedure, sort of unwritten rule that at some conventions, people only think the proper place to voice their support is at the actual voting meeting.  Sorry I'm not one of the cool kids that knew the secret handshake in advance.

All three of the people running for Sakura chair are quite qualified.  I've voiced my opinion, but going back to my offer of a $20 loan, if one of my friends asked me for it and even did a little dance in front of me chanting, "I'm voting for other people!" over and over, I would still loan the cash for someone who wanted a say in Sakura.  I know there are both Kunmori and Sakura people that know my integrity and know this to be true.

I've been threatened and libeled for this.  Maybe the people who have done this and have made attacks on my character aren't familiar with the concept of an honest person who would do a favor for a friend who has differing opinions.  Or even the concepts that friends CAN have differing opinions.  Guess what?  In Eugene/Springfield there are people that are willing to help out a friend unconditionally.  I'm sure there are also people like that in Portland, Seattle and Vancouver (and all of the Pacific Northwest), but quite honestly, if in your experience you've never run into someone like that before, perhaps it's time to find some new friends.

[akirahojo]

Beth,

I don't think the your character is in question, just the things you said in your initial posts is in question to what is implied.  Again, had this been JUST an informational posting, then no harm no foul, without statement on your personal opinion.  What is in question is the ethical implications, seeing not all you have stated in your posting is all there and complete.  That might not have been on purpose, but what has happened has happened.

If you are one of my good friends in RL and you don't have $20 this week, let me know and we can work something out.

This is the statement that is putting people's panties in a bunch.  The fact that the initial post did not state a loan and be repaid as such.  In the future, please try to choose your words carefully, so there would be no confusion to what you mean.

I believe the full clarification on who are memebers, and what are the qualifications are stated by Wally Lindsay, who is one of the people who drafted this policy states:

ARTICLE 2. MEMBERSHIP

2.1 Classes of Members

Sakura-Con shall initially have one class of members. Additional classes of members, the manner of election or appointment of each class of members and the qualifications and right of each class of members may be established by the amendment to these Bylaws.

2.2 Qualifications for Membership

In order to qualify for membership, a member shall pay annual dues. A member may be elected or appointed to membership by the Board. Members may have such other qualifications as the Board may prescribe by amendment to these Bylaws.

According to the bylaws, the only qualification for membership is to pay annual dues. To put a restriction (or qualification) as "must have attended the con or volunteer or staff" would require an amendment to the bylaws. Bylaws are amended at general meetings in accordance to parliamentary law. The qualifications for membership are continued in the policy handbook:

Sakura-Con Organization Membership dues

To be a voting member of the Sakura-Con Organization, one must pay dues. This membership is valid until after the new Sakura-Con Executives are elected for the next Sakura-Con year event wherein the membership to the Sakura-Con organization expires and must be renewed for the new convention planning year.

This according to the by-laws of Sakura Con, and as such, are enforced, which was not stated in your initial post, which was not intended or you were not aware of.

This also stated by Max Pham, Sakura Con 2004 Con Chair, who also help draft the policy:

The intentions of the "General Membership" was to grant voting rights to previous Staff members of Sakura-Con who take a year off and may return the following year.

It was a chance to allow them a vote for who they wish to work under, etc.

It was never the intention of the voting policies to be abused in this manner.

I hope this clarifies a lot of gaps in the information for those who have attended Sakura Con and are interested in the voting process.


Chad Ma
Press Room Coordinator
Sakura Con 2005

[SailorNaboo]

This also stated by Max Pham, Sakura Con 2004 Con Chair, who also help draft the policy:

The intentions of the "General Membership" was to grant voting rights to previous Staff members of Sakura-Con who take a year off and may return the following year.

It was a chance to allow them a vote for who they wish to work under, etc.

It was never the intention of the voting policies to be abused in this manner.

I asked on the Sakura Con board about voting and was told as long as I paid at a meeting, no problem!  I asked about an absentee ballot and paying by paypal and this is the decision that was made on the 24th:

http://www.sakuracon.org/index.php?l=contacts/election.php

I didn't go digging for a loophole.  I asked a question, a meeting was held and an answer was given saying that it was allowed.

[SailorNaboo]

Beth,

I don't think the your character is in question.

Actually, legally it has been by quite a few people.  I didn't have AIM logging on, but I've been called things I don't care to repeat by people that are in respectable positions.  It's still quite shocking.

[RemSaverem]

beth: thanks for the compliments.

however, please note: i am no longer working at white bird, and have not been for over 10 months. though i was there for 7 amazing years, i am now providing services in a residential setting instead.

and i appreciate the offer, but have to be doing particular things for the holidays (end of passover, and beltaine), and cramming for midterms, and will not be able to attend the election.

[Radien]

It seems to me that there has been a lot of assuming going on. And you know what they say about what it is to assume...

As far as I can tell after rereading it twice, Beth's original statement did not say she was planning on doing anything that would break any of Sakura Con's rules. What could be said about it is that she was, perhaps, not detailed enough about her intentions.

So, what do you do when you don't know someone's intentions? Well, the first thing people instinctively do is to review their opinion of the person. Personally, I know Beth, and I know she'd never review people's choice of candidates before offering to help them. People who don't know Beth so well may not be willing to make that assumption. However, both of these assumptions are personal, and therefore subjective.

So, what is the most fair and objective response? I think the simplest solution would be to ask for clarification before making accusations or implications. Using phrases like "are you admitting to ... (etc.)" is quite clearly an implied accusation, and that's where I think this topic started to derail.

**********

Lastly, on a semi-unrelated note, anyone who doubts the nature of the feedback Sakura Con has had over the past two years clearly needs to take the time to look over the Assault and Flattery Forum's topics from 2004 and 2005.  Even if the webmaster did not back up the online forum archives, I'm certain you could find a written record of the comments made following Closing Ceremonies, if you ask the Chair from that year.

 The content of those praises and complaints are on record, and not subject to hearsay if you go and read it yourself. The basic ratio of complaints to praises in any given year is possible to tally with a fair amount of objectivity.  Since I was keeping tabs on that forum last year, I can say with certainty that the records will speak for themselves if you are both willing and able to read them.