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Offline FizzTheCarbonated

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2007 Review Thread
« on: September 04, 2007, 10:50:53 am »
Hey, didn't see one of these so I figured I'd start it out myself.  I had a great, great time this year, so I'll start with the good stuff.

Hotel:  I didn't stay in it, but I thought the convention space was great.  The hotel staff was totally on the ball and not cranky with the congoers from what I saw.  Also, they didn't double-book us with a wedding on the last day, yes, I'm looking at you, last year's hotel...  Room changes seemed to go pretty swiftly from what I witnessed, as well.  Always a good thing.

Leading from that:

The Kumori-Con Kafe:  This was a great idea!  Having hot food available starting later in the evening and going until 11 or so was a great thing for many congoers, I think.  I know I grabbed a slice of pizza one night.  I would love to see this again at whatever hotel we stay at next year.

Cosplay Green Room:  We had live video feed!  WOOOO!  And water and some snacks in the room, also very excellent.  The method for getting us on stage and then back off worked really smoothly as well.  A few more chairs next year would be good, though.  There wasn't enough for everyone in there.

Gaming:  Lots of room, a nice space, and I loved seeing the classic arcade games.  I think some of the DDR players were annoyed because the dance pads kept sliding around the floor, though.  They needed some anti-skid pads under there.  Also, the poor guys running the bag check were run ragged.  There needed to be more then two of them.

The Slightly Anime Dating Game:  I help these guys set up and run things every year (people waiting in line, you might have remembered the girl with the mohawk yelling instructions at you.  Thanks for following them!).  Thank you, thank you for the room you have us!  It was big enough, even if we had some people standing in the back, and we had a stage!  It ran really, really smoothly.  Thanks so much!

Dealer's Room:  Stuffy because of the lack of airflow and kinda hot, but it was huge and spacious!  I think having it in the parking garage was a much better idea than trying to hold it somewhere indoors.  We'd never have had room.

Pre-Reg:  This went GREAT.  My boyfriend and I walked in at about 9:30 on Friday evening to find no line.  We were so confused that we just walked in a circle for a minute trying to figure out where to go.  In less than five minutes we had our lanyards and were back out to head to the hotel we were staying.

The maids with the signs:  BEST IDEA EVER.  Everyone can hear a sign.  Those were freakin' awesome.  I always knew where the line was supposed to be.

There were some things that were less than awesome, though...

Some of the other people in the cosplay:  Okay, seriously.  It says the cosplay pre-meeting is at noon.  That means that if you're in the cosplay, you should be at the pre-meeting at noon.  Showing up at 1:00 and asking if you can still get in just freaks out the poor cosplay director.  The pre-meeting is in the schedule, in the program, and mentioned online.  It's not that hard to figure out.

The Lolita Tea Party:  I don't know what the actual event was like, because we weren't allowed in.  Apparently we didn't meet the dress code.  That is not what I am annoyed about.  I am annoyed about the way the dress code was enforced and the treatment (or lack thereof) we received from those running the panel.

Let me say right at the beginning that I understand that there was limited seating in the room where the tea party was being held, and that I completely understand that there was a dress code that we apparently didn't fit.  I'm not angry about that.  What I am angry about is that there was no way for us to ensure we would fit the dress code before we showed up.  My boyfriend and I wore the visual-kei/lolita pirate costumes we wore to the Lolita Tea Party at Anime Evolution.  Last year we had come to the Kumori-Con tea party in slightly more Goth than Lolita costumes, and we were accepted in and we quite enjoyed it.  We were looking forward to this year's party, and we wore the costumes we wore specifically because we thought we would fit the dress code.

Apparently not.  They seemed to strictly want Lolita.  Not Goth-Lolita, not Maid-Lolita, not Punk-Lolita.  Just Lolita.  Had we known about this ahead of time we could have put costumes together that would have fit the dress code.  If the dress code is going to be THAT specific and THAT heavily enforced, then people need to know about it ahead of time.  If the seating is THAT limited, then have RSVPs on the forums like they do for the Anime Evolution one.  And unless there were ten or fifteen people already in the room who those of us in line weren't aware of, they probably could have fit all of us in there, since it was the same room that was used for the cosplay green room and it was fairly spacious.

The way people were let in was improperly done, as well.  The passing out of tickets I understand, though I think RSVPs would have been a better way to go.  The fact that none of the girls running the tea party said a word to my boyfriend and I came across as being being cowardly and passive-aggressive.  They ushered in the people standing on either side of us and hardly looked at us at all.  After pretty much everyone else who had been waiting in line had gone inside the room, they went in and shut the door behind them.  That was incredibly rude.  They left us standing in the hall without a word.  Frankly, I think the polite thing would have been to tell us straight-up to our faces that we didn't fit the dress code and wouldn't be getting in the moment they saw us standing in line.  They chose not to do so.  They chose to ignore us completely.

Even if we fit the dress code next year, I don't think we'll attend the tea party.  Not after the way we were treated this year.

Elevators:  I move that people who are not disabled who ride the elevator from the first floor to the second floor, or vice-versa, should be beaten with a wet noodle.  Seriously, that just ties up the elevators.  A flight of stairs won't kill you.

That's all I can think of for now.  I'll post more later if I remember them.  I'm still totally wiped out.

But I had fun.
Your Darwin fish will not protect you from my wrath!

Offline xxxchihiroxxx

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2007, 11:35:59 am »
Quote
Some of the other people in the cosplay:  Okay, seriously.  It says the cosplay pre-meeting is at noon.  That means that if you're in the cosplay, you should be at the pre-meeting at noon.  Showing up at 1:00 and asking if you can still get in just freaks out the poor cosplay director.  The pre-meeting is in the schedule, in the program, and mentioned online.  It's not that hard to figure out.

yeah you can blame our group a little bit for that (the bang bang nekos) our star was lateeeeee he didnt make the premeat sadly so we were just lucky they still let us in (even if he took the disc with him to edit last minute stuffs) anyways on to my review of this.

 good things

Hotel: I had to comute to the con since i was just staying at my house this time. but the rest of our group had a few rooms and i remeber it being nice to go in and just hang out. The two added anime channels were nice in the mornings when we couldnt find things to do! :D that was a BIG bonus!

but sadly the room my friends had that we all hung out in didnt get a cleaning or a sheet change till late at night the second day because they had to ask for fresh sheets. it was kinda depressing with out clean towels to. D: pluss the elivators where PACKED through most of the day! i had to use the stairs a lot (no complante) but i sadly couldnt use them alone since you had to have a hotel card to open all the doors to get onto the diffrent lvl's ecept for lvl 2.  not fun.

Panels: i was so happy to see cossplay chess and some of the others make the pannels this year! they were fun to watch and do! the tea partys were nice. i missed the first day so i couldnt come to the lolita party but the host club tea party was amazingly fun to do!

a lot of the pannels sadly overlapped a lot so i couldnt attend all the ones i wanted to D: i know you cant help that but its still sad. also the layout to where things where was a bit confuzing at times. and the schedual i am aware of i think changed a few times. also next tame can the cossplay chess alow orgional charecters? i wanted to participate in my chines girl outfit but sadly could not.

gameroom: i loved it a lot! a lot of games to have fun with and such, real fun! pluss the many little contests that where heald i heard where fun (I was sadly to busy to attend)

bag checking, dont let the poor two guys run raged! get them some help next time! also please please please bring things to make the pads stick to the floor and not slide around under our feet! it was hard to make sure you where pressing the right one with out looking down to see if the pad moved or not!

Cossplay green room and skits: real good on my end of the rope (in the green room watching on the screen) the snacks and drink where good and i loved that part! :D and a big thanks to the audio crew they worked hard and everythign seemed to work in place!

but from my friends end who was taping the skit for us to review later said that the line was huge and a few people had to stand in the back do to not enough seating. so please get some more seating D: maybe it would also be good to have an official camera (like the one feeding to the green room) record and make copys for those who participated in the skits since its hard to get some of our friends to go get a good seat wait for hours and try to film it for us and having little avail sometimes.

location: i loved the location! it was easy to navigate around the town and find good food places pluss the big bell tower thingy was a cool place to hang out and get pictures!

venders hall: fun as always! i thought it was cool that it was in the parking area! it was out of the sun so it was cooler then ussal and the water was also nice! and the choices where amazing! so many venders to pick from and artists to buy prints from! i loved how one of the amazing artists had a raffel and gave away a lot of drawings to the people that stayed to find out who won the raffel. we sadly had to lie to the gaurds to let us in we said we had to go back in to pick up a picture we had drawn of us because we couldnt get back in (SORRY!)

erm i guess my only complaint there is one, hardly any one offers a shoping bag to go with so i had to carry a lot of my things loose hand the first time i went (second time i brought bags with  me) also i know you cant change but its not going to be a problem for 2008 since we will be back in oregon, but tax. i hated that part. =.= im used to not having to pay it in oregon when i go shoping.

well thats what i thought of the con! great job this year guys! i cant wait to see how next year turns out!
returning with a vengeance to K con~

Offline Riyuki

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2007, 01:26:31 pm »
<i>Elevators:  I move that people who are not disabled who ride the elevator from the first floor to the second floor, or vice-versa, should be beaten with a wet noodle.  Seriously, that just ties up the elevators.  A flight of stairs won't kill you.</i>

Unless, of course, you are wearing Goofy's clown shoes and its physically impossible to walk up the stairs. ^^


The artist alley felt really lacking. Hardly anyone was there, and I hardly saw any fanart! Artists, get a table next year and expand your variety so it can be great! But the dealers room was SO BIG and spacious. Very awesome. (Although disgustingly hot).

The convention space wasn't crowded, and the park/farmers market nearby was fun and convenient.

The AMV contest wasn't up to the standards of the last couple years. But, what can you do, really. Lets see some great AMV's next year!

Hooray for the Karaoke room. Though more of a selection would have been nice. A little more organization on having the lyrics, too.

PEOPLE AT THE CON WERE SO RUDE. Seriously, rude cosplayers/congoers had me in tears on Sunday. Please learn how to treat your fellow congoers and properly conduct yourself at a con.

Offline FizzTheCarbonated

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2007, 01:43:34 pm »
Unless, of course, you are wearing Goofy's clown shoes and its physically impossible to walk up the stairs. ^^

This would count as a temporary disability.  Much like wearing a skirt so large you can't see your feet when walking down the stairs.  People in jeans and t-shirts, though?  Walk, dangit!
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Offline emmyriceball

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2007, 02:16:37 pm »
Things I enjoyed about the con:

Dealer's Room: It was very, very large and the walkways were actually big enough so I didn't have to bump into people to get through. There was a good variety of stands which had really nice merchandise. The artist alley was a bit lacking, but it was pretty good over all. I don't see why everyone says it was so hot. I thought it was cool in there.

Cosplay Event/Line: I was one of the maids with signs (the one with cat ears) and although it was tiring to walk up and down that line so much, everyone was really nice. I didn't get many people complaining or yelling at us and most people asked questions politely. Thanks for that, everyone! The cosplay event itself was loads of fun, besides the technical difficulties. I will always remember the Vash's speech.

Glomp Circle: Although when I first heard this was on pavement, it sounded dangerous, it was loads of fun and I don't think anyone got hurt too badly. It was lots of fun glomping and getting glomped. :3 I was in it five times, the longest time being from about 6:30 to 7:40. I'll be sure to join again next year.

Hotel: The location and layout of the hotel was great. though I was a tad bit confused at first as to where the Dealer's room was, once I knew the locations of everything it was easy getting around. The staff was amazing, too. I even had one joking with me while I was helping with the Cosplay Line.

Things that could be improved upon:

Some Attendees: Although most people attending were incredibly nice, there were some people who were pretty rude. I remember on Sunday I heard someone screaming at a Sasuke cosplayer that if they didn't like yaoi they shouldn't be cosplaying as the most slashed character ever. That really made me mad since the person can cosplay whever they want regardless of their tastes. But still, mostly everyone was really nice.

Okay, that's it. Remember that I was only at the con Sunday, so...

Offline BoredHorror

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2007, 02:36:41 pm »
I posted this in another thread but I wanted to post it here too...since this is the official review thread:

Masquerade: it was really dissapointing.  it has been one of my favorite events in the past. but because the dress code rules were not inforced (strictly formal/cosplay event + mask..I saw lots of people walking around in jeans and a tee-shirt) and the music was not waltzing music- it was just like another dance.  which was sad because it was suppose to be formal and different.  (not to mention the room was tiny so it was hard to not crash into anybody when waltzing)
-Mikae

Offline kekame

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2007, 02:39:52 pm »
Wow. I think this convinced me never to attend the tea party thing at Kumori-con. Ever.

And I'm glad to hear we weren't the only ones having problems with a lot of rude cosplayers. I can't decide whether people are ignorant and just don't know it isn't appropriate to go up and verbally tear someone up about their costume, or whether people are just that insensitive to anyone that isn't themselves or their friends. Maybe we need a 'Cosplay Etiquette' panel if people are just ignorant? It caught me by suprise this year as I haven't known people around the Portland area to be rude. In the past Kumori-con's I've attended (04 and 06), I can't recall running into anyone seriously rude, either. Perhaps I am just getting older as the con crowd seems to be getting younger and younger?

It bothered me that we had to wear our blatantly obvious, non-aesthically pleasing red lanyards on our neck all the time. I understand they need to be visible, but around the neck is right in the middle of a picture. That and I couldn't physically fit it around my rock hard spikey hair, so yelling at me for it was rather pointless.
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Kaiba - Yugioh (Battle City)

Offline BoredHorror

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2007, 02:48:31 pm »


It bothered me that we had to wear our blatantly obvious, non-aesthically pleasing red lanyards on our neck all the time. I understand they need to be visible, but around the neck is right in the middle of a picture. That and I couldn't physically fit it around my rock hard spikey hair, so yelling at me for it was rather pointless.

I know what you mean. When I was allen walker, I had a yellow winged thing on my head which prevented me from slipping it off easily (that and the fact that my left hand was unusable...I had to have my friends help get it off) that and when I was roxas from kingdom hearts......spikes+lanyard=trouble.
-Mikae

Offline BlackjackGabbiani

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2007, 03:06:01 pm »
Maybe a lanyard compromise could be in order, like one where, instead of it being a solid piece, it has a clasp in the back to attach, so you don't have to slip it on over your head.

Offline Neko_Chan

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2007, 03:14:16 pm »
Last year's tea party at 2006, we didnt have a dress code enforced. We told one girl that she needed to leave because she was just in jeans and cat ears. Everyone was let in at 2006 and we had room for that many people. If anyone was intrested in knowning what the expectations were going to be, they should have turned up for the lolita informitive fashion panel at 11am, HOURS before the tea party. I assure you that over 90% of the people in line for the tea party had the wrong idea, including people that we had let in to the tea party themselves.

This years tea party we decided that it would be strictly lolita fashion. What are you talking about "No gothic lolita?" Are you kidding me? I'm sorry but please tell me why you think that we would only let in one kind of lolita fashion? We turned people away that were;
a) cosplaying or wearing cosplay-ish outfits. Lolita NEVER equals cosplay. EVER. Lolita is fashion.
b) not in lolita. VK isn't lolita. This includes friends and significant others.

I dont think alot of people get that there are RULES to lolita fashion. Yeah, fashion is open to your own ideas but if you wear khakis and a polo you cannot call it gothic, can you? There are expectations you have to follow and if you are not following them then you will not get in regardless.

So because we didnt enforced the dress code rule last year, of course it would be strict(er) this year. We had places set for thirty and no more. We are going to lower it to twenty next year because there are people we let in that we honestly didnt think were good enough.

We aren't being mean or rude. We devote ALOT of time, effort and money into lolita fashion and we are not going to be happy when people come dressed as maids and wearing black lipstick thinking that they'll be treated to lunch. We are selective because its EXPENSIVE for the con. There was another tea party on Sunday you could have attended.

I'm sorry you were treated poorly, it was very stressful on us turning people away. No one likes being rejected and it's harder to do when people are harrassing us and being rude and yelling at us saying "WHAT DO YOU MEAN MY OUTFIT ISNT LOLITA?" and the like.

Just to clear anything up;
THE LOLITA TEA PARTY IS NOT FOR EVERYONE. IT IS THE LOLITA TEA PARTY FOR A REASON. IT IS NOT FOR PEOPLE TO COME IN AND BE SERVED TEA AND SCONES BY LOLITAS.

Offline kekame

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2007, 03:17:47 pm »
I remember you! Both your costumes were freaking awesome! And you definitely had it even more inconvenient than I did! I ended up just looping it around my necklace for Sora and around my belt loop for Kaiba. So it was in sight, or atleast mostly in sight, I just thought it was really nit picky to be around the neck, like, right it the center of every picture. XP

A compromise like a clasp or a clip would be awesome. Or, logically, they could check ID at the door and then not have to be anal about it for the rest of the time. I mean, if I walk into a bar, they check and make sure I'm 21, but after I'm in the door, I don't have to wear my driver's license stapled to my forehead.

Oh, and I was going to ask at whoever actually attended closing ceremonies, why did they choose to change locations again? I liked the one this year. Was it just cause they were expecting growth or what? I'm wondering how many people were there.
Sora - KHII (Regular Outfit, Kingdom Key)
Kaiba - Yugioh (Battle City)

Offline MistressLegato

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2007, 03:19:03 pm »
Last year's tea party at 2006, we didnt have a dress code enforced. We told one girl that she needed to leave because she was just in jeans and cat ears. Everyone was let in at 2006 and we had room for that many people. If anyone was intrested in knowning what the expectations were going to be, they should have turned up for the lolita informitive fashion panel at 11am, HOURS before the tea party. I assure you that over 90% of the people in line for the tea party had the wrong idea, including people that we had let in to the tea party themselves.

This years tea party we decided that it would be strictly lolita fashion. What are you talking about "No gothic lolita?" Are you kidding me? I'm sorry but please tell me why you think that we would only let in one kind of lolita fashion? We turned people away that were;
a) cosplaying or wearing cosplay-ish outfits. Lolita NEVER equals cosplay. EVER. Lolita is fashion.
b) not in lolita. VK isn't lolita. This includes friends and significant others.

I dont think alot of people get that there are RULES to lolita fashion. Yeah, fashion is open to your own ideas but if you wear khakis and a polo you cannot call it gothic, can you? There are expectations you have to follow and if you are not following them then you will not get in regardless.

So because we didnt enforced the dress code rule last year, of course it would be strict(er) this year. We had places set for thirty and no more. We are going to lower it to twenty next year because there are people we let in that we honestly didnt think were good enough.

We aren't being mean or rude. We devote ALOT of time, effort and money into lolita fashion and we are not going to be happy when people come dressed as maids and wearing black lipstick thinking that they'll be treated to lunch. We are selective because its EXPENSIVE for the con. There was another tea party on Sunday you could have attended.

I'm sorry you were treated poorly, it was very stressful on us turning people away. No one likes being rejected and it's harder to do when people are harrassing us and being rude and yelling at us saying "WHAT DO YOU MEAN MY OUTFIT ISNT LOLITA?" and the like.

Just to clear anything up;
THE LOLITA TEA PARTY IS NOT FOR EVERYONE. IT IS THE LOLITA TEA PARTY FOR A REASON. IT IS NOT FOR PEOPLE TO COME IN AND BE SERVED TEA AND SCONES BY LOLITAS.

Lolita is an INCREDIBLY huge field and I feel that telling people they should have attending some panel that wasn't directly related to the actual tea party is very, very rude.  There are versions of lolita that can look very cosplay and it's very judgemental to tell someone their outfit ISN'T lolita and is cosplay when they attended another Lolita tea party in the exact same outfit . . 
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Offline totemo_oishii

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2007, 03:20:19 pm »
Hopefully I'm not barging in, but there's also a Host Club tea party you can attend.  ;D

Offline Radien

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2007, 03:21:51 pm »
w00t, another year accomplished. Good and bad things to mention, as always. I'll offer my take. By the way, I'm a general staffer. I did three panels (one of them as an on-the-fly emergency replacement), and worked in the karaoke room and at the info desk for a few hours. Anyway...


The Hotel:

As for the con, this would be one of my favorite locations. The layout is quite conducive to an anime convention, and it didn't seem cramped for the most part. The staff were not condescending and were generally cooperative, too. The rooms were about average in size, etc. My friends and I had some trouble with reservations after one of their employees messed up the schedule after I changed our reservation on the phone, but they fixed it eventually. My main irritation was the late check-in time of 4pm. Oh, and I missed having free wireless internet while doing my panels. :(


Kumoricon Kafe:

I have NEVER paid prices this low on hotel property before. $10 for a whole pizza? Sw33t with a capital 3. It was pretty tasty, too. I hope we continue to have this. Let's hope future hotels will agree, if we move.


Cosplay Contest:

I didn't go to the cosplay contest, because I couldn't imagine anything being worth waiting 1+ hours in line, so I can't comment on the content. However, holding the line in direct sunlight was... um... disagreeable. My costume was mostly black and multi-layered, so waiting in line was a no-no. I'm not saying that line location could have been changed... but Kumori should continue to do whatever possible to shorten lines, because our size is starting to make it pretty bad.


Gaming:

My gaming feedback got to be extensive, so I'm going to put it in its own topic.


The Slightly Anime Dating Game:

This is the first time I attended this since '04, IIRC. However, my complaint is the same: the way they choose contestants is stupid. I'm not saying this because I want to be a contestant. I am happily "unavailable." I'm saying that the way they are chosen is basically random -- or in some cases, the hosts simply choose the most well-known people in the audience. Usually the bachelor(ette)s aren't looking for a real date, which makes the whole show feel fake and pointless. Just a little preparation would make it interesting. Let the bachelor(ette)s CHOOSE their questions and answers beforehand! And don't knowingly put non-single people on stage!! That's all you need to do! Gah...


Exhibitor's Room:

No complaints! Plenty of space, good selection, and no one shouting "YAOI" in my ear every three seconds! (There was tons of yaoi, but it's the shouting that annoys me.) Apparently it was hot and stuffy at some point, but I didn't visit the exhibitor's room at the point of the day. Beyond that, you'd best ask the dealers and artists what they thought.

P.S: Go Nekopan!
 I'm glad you apparently did well!


Staff Pre-reg:

I was staff, so I can't comment on regular pre-reg. For me, it went smoothly, but I did have to hunt to Brenda before I could do anything. Fortunately, this didn't inconvenience me greatly, and it was a LOT more orderly than what I encountered at Sak' this year, but I hope it gets to be even more improved.


The Dance/Rave:

The music, location, lighting, and dancing were all awesome. People really got into it, and the high-5 congo line was, hehe, lots of fun.  My only complaint was that some of the videos played were in very bad taste. Specifically, one of the AMVs (sans audio) used footage of the Hiroshima atomic bomb drop scene from Barefoot Gen. Seeing an animation of WWII victims being melted in slow motion by a nuclear explosion is not my idea of a fun dance video. Think of it this way: would you play animated 9/11 footage at a dance rave? I'm sure this was just an oversight amidst random AMV footage that was spliced together, but I hope not to see it again.


The Masquerade:

Despite waiting in line, it was a lot of fun. I'm not sure whether having people out of costume really detracted from anything at all. I know it didn't bother me, as most people wore costumes, and some people were very dedicated about it (how hard is it for two people wearing mascot costumes to dance with eachother? Ask Jack in the Box and Luna the Cat). My main issue was with the music. They played some silly songs, and a few of those are okay, but there was very little slow-dance and waltz music, and some of the best songs were truncated (i.e. the Fruits Basket BGM). Also, I can't imagine why the FF8 waltz theme didn't make it into the mix. I don't even like FF8, and I still consider that a no-brainer song choice.

So anyway, more formal music. Possibly more planned out. That's all.


Panels:

I didn't go to any panels in my free time, but I was a panelist for three of them: History of Console RPGs, Karaoke for Beginners, and Intro to Japanese. It was supposed to be just two panels, but I got called in as an emergency replacement for the third of those. One other staffer jumped in with me, and we ended up pulling a native Japanese speaker from the audience, who was great help. Since we had no preparation, it felt sloppy, but I happened to have some Japanese kana cheat sheets to hand out. The attendees for that panel were great. they were enthusiastic and encouraging. (They even applauded us!)

Console RPGs was great all around. I want to do it again next year. Karaoke was okay... everybody was rather impatient and indifferent, though I can understand some impatience since we had technical difficulties. In the future I'm going to show up 30 minutes early rather than 10-15, because all three panels had problems with missing equipment.



Unless, of course, you are wearing Goofy's clown shoes and its physically impossible to walk up the stairs. ^^

This would count as a temporary disability.  Much like wearing a skirt so large you can't see your feet when walking down the stairs.  People in jeans and t-shirts, though?  Walk, dangit!

There was a pregnant attendee who waited in line for two hours in direct sunlight before coming to the info desk and asking for disability seating on account of heat exhaustion. She was quite a trooper... but I wish she'd come to us earlier. If you are in pain or some sort of health risk due to an unavoidable condition, come get help from staff! We aren't heartless! (Unless of course some of us are cosplaying certain Kingdom Hearts characters...)
« Last Edit: September 04, 2007, 03:26:38 pm by Radien »
A member of Eugene Cosplayers. Come hang out with us.

Kumori Con 2010 Cosplays:

Link (The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess)
Apollo Justice

Offline Neko_Chan

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2007, 03:26:13 pm »
Last year's tea party at 2006, we didnt have a dress code enforced. We told one girl that she needed to leave because she was just in jeans and cat ears. Everyone was let in at 2006 and we had room for that many people. If anyone was intrested in knowning what the expectations were going to be, they should have turned up for the lolita informitive fashion panel at 11am, HOURS before the tea party. I assure you that over 90% of the people in line for the tea party had the wrong idea, including people that we had let in to the tea party themselves.

This years tea party we decided that it would be strictly lolita fashion. What are you talking about "No gothic lolita?" Are you kidding me? I'm sorry but please tell me why you think that we would only let in one kind of lolita fashion? We turned people away that were;
a) cosplaying or wearing cosplay-ish outfits. Lolita NEVER equals cosplay. EVER. Lolita is fashion.
b) not in lolita. VK isn't lolita. This includes friends and significant others.

I dont think alot of people get that there are RULES to lolita fashion. Yeah, fashion is open to your own ideas but if you wear khakis and a polo you cannot call it gothic, can you? There are expectations you have to follow and if you are not following them then you will not get in regardless.

So because we didnt enforced the dress code rule last year, of course it would be strict(er) this year. We had places set for thirty and no more. We are going to lower it to twenty next year because there are people we let in that we honestly didnt think were good enough.

We aren't being mean or rude. We devote ALOT of time, effort and money into lolita fashion and we are not going to be happy when people come dressed as maids and wearing black lipstick thinking that they'll be treated to lunch. We are selective because its EXPENSIVE for the con. There was another tea party on Sunday you could have attended.

I'm sorry you were treated poorly, it was very stressful on us turning people away. No one likes being rejected and it's harder to do when people are harrassing us and being rude and yelling at us saying "WHAT DO YOU MEAN MY OUTFIT ISNT LOLITA?" and the like.

Just to clear anything up;
THE LOLITA TEA PARTY IS NOT FOR EVERYONE. IT IS THE LOLITA TEA PARTY FOR A REASON. IT IS NOT FOR PEOPLE TO COME IN AND BE SERVED TEA AND SCONES BY LOLITAS.

Lolita is an INCREDIBLY huge field and I feel that telling people they should have attending some panel that wasn't directly related to the actual tea party is very, very rude.  There are versions of lolita that can look very cosplay and it's very judgemental to tell someone their outfit ISN'T lolita and is cosplay when they attended another Lolita tea party in the exact same outfit . . 
I excpect EVERYONE to know what lolita is if they are going to turn up to get into a lolita tea party. It said in the con book that there was a strict dress code.

There wasnt another lolita tea party. There was a Host Club tea party.

We have strict rules on what we call lolita. Cosplayers seem tot hink that lolita cosplay is okay however lolitas and the entirety of the lolita community frown upon it. ALOT. Pickachu and naruto are not lolita, nor is it fitting to dress them up in a frilly dress.

Offline Lit_of_Fey

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2007, 03:32:17 pm »
Whee this is a good idea for a topic ^.^

Hotel: It was excellent :D the staff were really nice and understanding, and even though we had to go ask to get our room cleaned, it was understandable since they were completely booked x_x it was really weird though because it didn't seem that the hilton had told any of the non-con guests staying in the hotel that there was going to be a huge nerdfest that weekend. I mean, I'm sure people would've taken their rooms if they'd decided not to come -_-; I was stuck in an elevator with two of them and it was painfully obvious that I was a con-attendee, and the guy and his wife just said right in front of me "god I hope these freaks have their silly gathering somewhere else next year." I really didn't know how to react to that, and I'm sure that those people probably would've chosen a different hotel had they known there would be a convention.

Vendor's hall: it was nice that it was so big, but it was kinda dark and creepy since it was in a parking garage. From what I heard about last year the variety was a bit lacking as well. it seemed like alot of booths were just selling the exact same things. The neko-pan bakery booth was definitely the best XD I hope they're there again next year ^.^

Badges: I don't understand why some people were anal about you wearing them specifically around your neck, everywhere I've read just said that you had to have them easily visible, which mine was and I was still yelled at a couple of times because the guy noticed that I WAS wearing a badge, but not around my neck. grrr

Lines and such: okay the cosplay contest line was ridiculous. I got in line 2 hours early and I still got a seat where I could barely see what was going on. if there would be any way to actually have it in theatre-style seating on a stage it would make it 57382758917683679390000 times better, because after a certain point in line....what's the point of even going?

Rudeness: I know it's something that you just have to deal with...but I was kind of amazed at how weird some of the staff were about things. I understand that it's very stressfull being on staff, but I know plenty of people who were SWAMPED with crap to do and running around doing this that and the other thing, and still managed to be pleasant, it's not very difficult to do. I went to the creation station when I was bored one night, and it wasn't busy or anything and since this is my first con I didn't exactly know how everything worked in there, I noticed that there were pens and such at the front of the room so I went up to the people running it and asked "could I steal these?" warrenting the response "well NO you can't STEALLLL them, if you're going to steal then get out." I mean....DUH I'm not going to actually steal them! I meant could I take them back and use them, I thought that that would've been obvious but I guess not. plus who would ASK to steal something anyway?

I know there's not really a way to fix the problem of mean/rude people, but I mean isn't it just much easier to be nice?

Host club tea party: great event P-kun! they should definitely have it in a bigger area next year with as many host club cosplayers as possible :3 the idea for having a dance with it is good tooooo! :D

uninformed: it was kind of hard for me as a first time con-goer to understand where everything was an how it all worked, so perhaps an "orientation" panel on the first day or whatever would be kind of cool :D show the newbies what fun is to be had ^.^

still on the uninformed note it kinda sucked because I missed all the photoshoots! D: I knew when a couple were, but the ones that I most wanted to go to I was sadly not aware of. It would be cool if they could somehow make a schedule of the different photoshoots so people won't miss out as much ^.^

k this is really long so I'm gonna stop now XD
Someday...I'll get around to you.

Offline Radien

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2007, 03:42:22 pm »
I excpect EVERYONE to know what lolita is if they are going to turn up to get into a lolita tea party. It said in the con book that there was a strict dress code.

There wasnt another lolita tea party. There was a Host Club tea party.

We have strict rules on what we call lolita. Cosplayers seem tot hink that lolita cosplay is okay however lolitas and the entirety of the lolita community frown upon it. ALOT. Pickachu and naruto are not lolita, nor is it fitting to dress them up in a frilly dress.

If the group is so exclusive, and the conflict caused by holding an official event with enforced exclusivity is this great, I have a suggestion: stop listing the tea party as an official con event. You already have plenty of people who know about it, so highlighting it in the schedule is counter-productive.

Gothic Lolita fashion-fans may frown upon the mixing of Gothic Lolita and cosplay, but cosplay is anime, and you're at an anime convention. As long as cosplayers and Gothic Lolita fans who don't follow the same strict guidelines are excluded, you are going to have angry people.

If it costs too much to allow many people in, then start charging admission. Anyone who can afford $200 worth of clothing that isn't normally worn in public can afford $3-5 for a tea party. That still leaves the dress code issue, but at least then you won't have to turn away quite so many people on the dress code clause.

Lastly, it's easy to get angry at attendees for misinformation. However, it's surprisingly easy to miss vital information at a con, sometimes even when you're paying attention. In '04, I plastered the karaoke audition rules all over the lobby, gave a copy to the info desk, and reiterated them twice during the auditions, but some well-meaning entrants still managed to slip through the cracks. When this happens, about all we can do is apologize and try harder next year, regardless of who was at fault. Just don't get upset about it, because frustration makes everyone unhappier.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2007, 03:45:07 pm by Radien »
A member of Eugene Cosplayers. Come hang out with us.

Kumori Con 2010 Cosplays:

Link (The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess)
Apollo Justice

Offline FizzTheCarbonated

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2007, 03:44:03 pm »
Last year's tea party at 2006, we didnt have a dress code enforced. We told one girl that she needed to leave because she was just in jeans and cat ears. Everyone was let in at 2006 and we had room for that many people.

I recall that last year the dress code was enforced.  At the very least, you weren't let in unless you has something on with ruffles.  We did dress Lolita for that, but it was much more Gothic-Lolita than pink-frills Lolita, which seemed to be the going theme this year.  I don't have a problem with that, but like I said, I do have a problem with not getting a chance to know about the dress code beforehand.

Quote
If anyone was intrested in knowning what the expectations were going to be, they should have turned up for the lolita informitive fashion panel at 11am, HOURS before the tea party.


The description in the con booklet about that panel mentioned nothing about dress code for the tea party.  I'm sure it was an interesting panel, and I would have attended it had I known the dress code for the tea party would have been spelled out for me there.  However, there was no way to know that based on the descriptions in the booklet.

Quote
I assure you that over 90% of the people in line for the tea party had the wrong idea, including people that we had let in to the tea party themselves.

This is why the dress code should have been made available beforehand.  And I mean "before the con" not "the day of the panel."

Quote
This years tea party we decided that it would be strictly lolita fashion. What are you talking about "No gothic lolita?" Are you kidding me? I'm sorry but please tell me why you think that we would only let in one kind of lolita fashion? We turned people away that were;

Something I heard being said by those running the panel while waiting in line:

"Well, her outfit is really more of a maid outfit, not really Lolita..."  (The girl in question was let in.)

Quote
a) cosplaying or wearing cosplay-ish outfits. Lolita NEVER equals cosplay. EVER. Lolita is fashion.

And I don't have a problem with that.

Quote
b) not in lolita. VK isn't lolita. This includes friends and significant others.


I did specify that my clothing was a Visual-Kei/Lolita hybrid.  I was not aware before the tea party that hybrid styles were not going to be allowed in.  Because, I will repeat, there was no way for me to learn about the dress code before the convention.

Quote
I dont think alot of people get that there are RULES to lolita fashion. Yeah, fashion is open to your own ideas but if you wear khakis and a polo you cannot call it gothic, can you? There are expectations you have to follow and if you are not following them then you will not get in regardless.

Yes, and I understand that, and I even specifically said that I wasn't angry because I didn't fit the dress code.  I was angry because there was no way for me to know the specific dress code before the convention started.  If I had known, I would have been able to dress to fit it.

Quote
So because we didnt enforced the dress code rule last year, of course it would be strict(er) this year. We had places set for thirty and no more. We are going to lower it to twenty next year because there are people we let in that we honestly didnt think were good enough.

So have RSVPs on the forums and make people send you a picture of the clothing they intend to wear so you can make sure they will be "good enough."  Leave perhaps five or ten slots open so that people who show up at the con can get in if they meet the dress code.  And for the love of all that is holy, make the dress code clear before the convention even starts.

Quote
We aren't being mean or rude. We devote ALOT of time, effort and money into lolita fashion and we are not going to be happy when people come dressed as maids and wearing black lipstick thinking that they'll be treated to lunch. We are selective because its EXPENSIVE for the con. There was another tea party on Sunday you could have attended.

Leaving us in the hallway and shutting the door behind you is rude.  It just plain is.  I understand that is it supposed to be a selective event with a dress code, and I am not angry about that.  Next year you should let people know what the damn dress code is going to be well in advance.  Before the con.  I wasn't expecting a free lunch, but I like tea parties and I like Gothic Lolita fashion so I wanted to come.

I wanted to get to the other tea party but the costumes we were wearing the next day take a while to get on, so by the time we got to con it was already over.  Sigh.

Quote
I'm sorry you were treated poorly, it was very stressful on us turning people away. No one likes being rejected and it's harder to do when people are harrassing us and being rude and yelling at us saying "WHAT DO YOU MEAN MY OUTFIT ISNT LOLITA?" and the like.

Thank you for the apology.  I still would have preferred it if someone had just told us as soon as they started picking people to go in that we were too Visual Kei to be admitted.  It was very rude to ignore us, and even ruder to just go inside and shut the doors without a word.

To be clear, my boyfriend and I did not yell at the people running the tea party.  We didn't say anything to them.  We were completely ignored.

And you'd lower your stress level a hell of a lot by having RSVPs next year.  No one can yell at you if they didn't RSVP.

Quote
Just to clear anything up;
THE LOLITA TEA PARTY IS NOT FOR EVERYONE. IT IS THE LOLITA TEA PARTY FOR A REASON. IT IS NOT FOR PEOPLE TO COME IN AND BE SERVED TEA AND SCONES BY LOLITAS.

I CAN DO CAPS TOO.  I KNEW THAT, I CAME LAST YEAR.

I was not expecting a free lunch.

I was not expecting a maid cafe.

I knew there would be a dress code.

However, since there was no way for me to learn about the dress code before the con, I assumed that the clothing I wore to the Anime Evolution tea party would be acceptable.

In short:

Don't leave people out in the hall without a word.  It's rude.

Have RSVPs for next year, or at the very least, make the dress very clear on the forums ahead of time.

Put the dress code in the con handbook.  Point it out to those who argue.

If someone doesn't meet the dress code, tell them to their face rather than passive-aggressively letting in everyone around them.  It's more polite and creates less bad feelings.
Your Darwin fish will not protect you from my wrath!

Offline Neko_Chan

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2007, 04:05:29 pm »
I excpect EVERYONE to know what lolita is if they are going to turn up to get into a lolita tea party. It said in the con book that there was a strict dress code.

There wasnt another lolita tea party. There was a Host Club tea party.

We have strict rules on what we call lolita. Cosplayers seem tot hink that lolita cosplay is okay however lolitas and the entirety of the lolita community frown upon it. ALOT. Pickachu and naruto are not lolita, nor is it fitting to dress them up in a frilly dress.

If the group is so exclusive, and the conflict caused by holding an official event with enforced exclusivity is this great, I have a suggestion: stop listing the tea party as an official con event. You already have plenty of people who know about it, so highlighting it in the schedule is counter-productive.

Gothic Lolita fashion-fans may frown upon the mixing of Gothic Lolita and cosplay, but cosplay is anime, and you're at an anime convention. As long as cosplayers and Gothic Lolita fans who don't follow the same strict guidelines are excluded, you are going to have angry people.

If it costs too much to allow many people in, then start charging admission. Anyone who can afford $200 worth of clothing that isn't normally worn in public can afford $3-5 for a tea party. That still leaves the dress code issue, but at least then you won't have to turn away quite so many people on the dress code clause.

Lastly, it's easy to get angry at attendees for misinformation. However, it's surprisingly easy to miss vital information at a con, sometimes even when you're paying attention. In '04, I plastered the karaoke audition rules all over the lobby, gave a copy to the info desk, and reiterated them twice during the auditions, but some well-meaning entrants still managed to slip through the cracks. When this happens, about all we can do is apologize and try harder next year, regardless of who was at fault. Just don't get upset about it, because frustration makes everyone unhappier.

We have already inquired about charging admission and we were told that Kumoricon dosnt want anyone to charage anything if they want to get into any events, just admission.

Fizz:
We had RSVP's all over Livejournal. I would suggest that you please watch this community for furute refference of lolita events in oregon if you dont have a livejournal i would suggest signing up for one an dwe will post an RSVP post here aswell in the future.
http://community.livejournal.com/orlolipops/profile

We will make sure to have more explicit details on what attendees should be expected to wear next year. If you do plan and attend our tea party event in 2008, and I am hoping you will besides this mishap, PM me with your outfit description and so on and so forth as the con gets near-er or email me (iie_toi_desu@hotmail.com) A large majority of us do wear sweet lolita style, but all kinda of lolita, pirate-esc, gothic, punk, kuro/shiro, sweet, ETC are all welcome at the tea party, they just must follow the lolita fashion rules.

Offline FizzTheCarbonated

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2007, 04:08:15 pm »
The Slightly Anime Dating Game:

This is the first time I attended this since '04, IIRC. However, my complaint is the same: the way they choose contestants is stupid. I'm not saying this because I want to be a contestant. I am happily "unavailable." I'm saying that the way they are chosen is basically random -- or in some cases, the hosts simply choose the most well-known people in the audience.

The hosts straight-up say they pick people at random.  It's supposed to be funny and pointless.  As Sven said at the beginning this year:

"We are the monkeys who they gave microphones to so that all of you could entertain yourselves."

Big Chris and Jesus got picked.  Frankly, they were crowd favorites and people wanted to see them up there.

Quote
Usually the bachelor(ette)s aren't looking for a real date, which makes the whole show feel fake and pointless.

Of course they're not.  It's not to be used as a dating service.  The whole point (if you want to say there IS a point) is to have a bunch of people answer a bunch of silly questions and act stupid on stage for the entertainment of the audience.

Quote
Just a little preparation would make it interesting. Let the bachelor(ette)s CHOOSE their questions and answers beforehand!


They're picked at the con the day of the dating game.  They probably wouldn't have time to write their own questions, and they wouldn't necessarily be able to come up with questions that would have the potential for lots of humorous sexual innuendo on the fly.

Quote
And don't knowingly put non-single people on stage!! That's all you need to do! Gah...

Since it's not actually a dating service, there is no reason to limit the contestants and prizes to single people.

I think you're just expecting the wrong thing from the dating game.  It's essentially an excuse for two hours of innuendo and dirty jokes.  It's not supposed to be serious, and it's certainly not supposed to be an actual dating game.  It's just...  Silly.
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Offline FizzTheCarbonated

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2007, 04:14:17 pm »
We have already inquired about charging admission and we were told that Kumoricon dosnt want anyone to charage anything if they want to get into any events, just admission.

Fizz:
We had RSVP's all over Livejournal. I would suggest that you please watch this community for furute refference of lolita events in oregon if you dont have a livejournal i would suggest signing up for one an dwe will post an RSVP post here aswell in the future.
http://community.livejournal.com/orlolipops/profile

I barely use my LiveJournal, and even if I did since I live in Seattle I wouldn't exactly be looking to go to a lot of Lolita events in Oregon, would I?  ^_~

It's expecting a bit much for people who are going to the convention to look at LiveJournal for RSVPs to an event happening at the con, don't you think?  I'm glad you'll be taking my suggesting of having RSVPs on the forums, as well.  (I looked for one before the con, too.)

Quote
We will make sure to have more explicit details on what attendees should be expected to wear next year. If you do plan and attend our tea party event in 2008, and I am hoping you will besides this mishap, PM me with your outfit description and so on and so forth as the con gets near-er or email me (iie_toi_desu@hotmail.com) A large majority of us do wear sweet lolita style, but all kinda of lolita, pirate-esc, gothic, punk, kuro/shiro, sweet, ETC are all welcome at the tea party, they just must follow the lolita fashion rules.

Thank you for listening to my critiques.  It'll make things a lot easier for you and a lot nicer for the people attending next year.
Your Darwin fish will not protect you from my wrath!

Offline Neko_Chan

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2007, 04:22:33 pm »
We have already inquired about charging admission and we were told that Kumoricon dosnt want anyone to charage anything if they want to get into any events, just admission.

Fizz:
We had RSVP's all over Livejournal. I would suggest that you please watch this community for furute refference of lolita events in oregon if you dont have a livejournal i would suggest signing up for one an dwe will post an RSVP post here aswell in the future.
http://community.livejournal.com/orlolipops/profile

I barely use my LiveJournal, and even if I did since I live in Seattle I wouldn't exactly be looking to go to a lot of Lolita events in Oregon, would I?  ^_~

It's expecting a bit much for people who are going to the convention to look at LiveJournal for RSVPs to an event happening at the con, don't you think?  I'm glad you'll be taking my suggesting of having RSVPs on the forums, as well.  (I looked for one before the con, too.)

Quote
We will make sure to have more explicit details on what attendees should be expected to wear next year. If you do plan and attend our tea party event in 2008, and I am hoping you will besides this mishap, PM me with your outfit description and so on and so forth as the con gets near-er or email me (iie_toi_desu@hotmail.com) A large majority of us do wear sweet lolita style, but all kinda of lolita, pirate-esc, gothic, punk, kuro/shiro, sweet, ETC are all welcome at the tea party, they just must follow the lolita fashion rules.

Thank you for listening to my critiques.  It'll make things a lot easier for you and a lot nicer for the people attending next year.
Okay, then please look at wa_lolis on livejournal then. :>

Thank you.

Offline MichaelEvans

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2007, 04:59:22 pm »
This is my first forum post for Kumoricon.

Kumoricon obliterated us...
... and we weren't even close to the hardest workers there (during the con).

To start off, this year was our first con, and our first year as staff.  We started attending meetings in June, and joined late enough that getting a room wasn't really an option.  Instead an hour of driving separated home and con.  So far that doesn't sound so bad, but here's where things get worse.  I, the only driver in the 'house', work 12 hour night shifts.  That is, I get off work at 8am.  The con Starts at 8am.  Thankfully I was able to get Friday and Saturday nights off, but would have to work 6 nights in a row starting Tuesday night after the con.  Saturday and Sunday, we woke up at 5am, showered, grabbed food, and drove in.  Parking around 7-7:30am.

Day 1, was barely managed chaos.  Everyone knew where normal people should go, pre-registered lining up on the east side of the building, at the door on the north side.  Any kind of exceptions however, had not been communicated to the ground staff, or had been forgotten.  A better policy next year might be to explicitly state that any exceptions should proceed forward to be evaluated at the registration station.  Not having been able to attend the prior day's meeting and orientation ceremony we only knew what was in the pocket guide.  Not wanting to do anything until opening ceremonies, I offered to help out, and ended up being door control for the at the door registration line.  I also happened to miss the single page that listed the vendor room hours, instead wondering why they weren't with the other room listings.  The floor layout in the guide was nice, and really helped, however there was something lacking from the hotel.  The final item was event space.  The one event I really wanted to attend Saturday was the Random Panel of Doom, however the room was absolutely packed, probably beyond safety so we didn't add to the chaos.

Day 2, even though we'd left early the prior day we didn't really unwind and get to sleep until around 11pm.  Waking up early started to take it's toll on us.  We weren't really sure what to do to kill time until the vending room.  So I sat in the viewing room with Binbou Shimai Monogatari, the only complaint I have there: Someone else voiced it perfectly.  Drama at 8am is somewhat of a suffering.  I suggest a better use of the early time slots might be to have a room for something kid friendly, like the Hello Kitty / Hamtaro / etc genera.  The other room could show classics we've all seen, or would like to see again.  The rest of the day was shopping, lunch (which I shared with the con suite, registration and Information desk, and a few random yojimbo since they were more or less fixed and I didn't know who else needed food.), half of Apocalypse in Anime, and Anime That Scared me for Life.  I really loved the panels I went to, especially the Scared me for Life one.  It would have been very nice to have a room though, so I could see the later panels.

Day 3, we had a better idea of what we were doing, but were so tired from the prior days that the only things we wanted to go to besides the closing ceremony were too early for us, and we had to skip them.  We're definitely going to get a room next year.

I'll be posting a more complete list of my Raves and Rants in the proper place (as soon as I find it).
---
Staff 2007-2010
2010-2008: Website Development (So very very much in the last month before the convention at last; Good thing I'm looking for work x.x and have the spare time ~.~)
2007: Website Administration (Mascot Voting Input, Live Schedule)

Offline xxxchihiroxxx

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2007, 05:09:57 pm »
ah lolita conflict D: not fun at all. i recall last year it wasnt enforced as much as it should have been and i sadly missed it this year. as a cossplayer and a lolita i feel sad the two seem to be in a fight.

secondly about rudeness... i have to agree on some points. while i only got bashed once about my cossplay i felt sad about it. the girl came up to me while i was waiting in line for something (I was wearing my chines girl shirt and pants) and started bragging about her outfit and planley said "THose look a LOT like pajamas........." in a rather mean and rude tone. i can see the realtion since i have seen chines outifts used as pajamas before but mine were erm... slightly more refind then pajamas i would like to say (im not bragging just saying they arnt PJ's!)

and the badge thing i have to agree with you all on that. my friend was pain in some kind of beast outfit from FFX-2 and it was so hard for her to get her badge on and off with her huge horns! she finaly put it around her waisnt and made sure that it showed in front and they yelled at her about it. next year guys go with a black not a red. it will get less complaints
returning with a vengeance to K con~

Offline maetel

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2007, 05:18:54 pm »

and the badge thing i have to agree with you all on that. my friend was pain in some kind of beast outfit from FFX-2 and it was so hard for her to get her badge on and off with her huge horns! she finaly put it around her waisnt and made sure that it showed in front and they yelled at her about it. next year guys go with a black not a red. it will get less complaints

i know what you mean about the badge thing. we had ours pinned at the waist pretty much all weekend, and only on Sunday night did one person tell us to pin them up. BUT the thing is... if we had been wearing the badges on lanyards, they would have been hanging at our waist anyway! do not understand :/

Offline Fudokage

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2007, 06:50:46 pm »
I excpect EVERYONE to know what lolita is if they are going to turn up to get into a lolita tea party. It said in the con book that there was a strict dress code.

There wasnt another lolita tea party. There was a Host Club tea party.

We have strict rules on what we call lolita. Cosplayers seem tot hink that lolita cosplay is okay however lolitas and the entirety of the lolita community frown upon it. ALOT. Pickachu and naruto are not lolita, nor is it fitting to dress them up in a frilly dress.

If the group is so exclusive, and the conflict caused by holding an official event with enforced exclusivity is this great, I have a suggestion: stop listing the tea party as an official con event. You already have plenty of people who know about it, so highlighting it in the schedule is counter-productive.

Gothic Lolita fashion-fans may frown upon the mixing of Gothic Lolita and cosplay, but cosplay is anime, and you're at an anime convention. As long as cosplayers and Gothic Lolita fans who don't follow the same strict guidelines are excluded, you are going to have angry people.

If it costs too much to allow many people in, then start charging admission. Anyone who can afford $200 worth of clothing that isn't normally worn in public can afford $3-5 for a tea party. That still leaves the dress code issue, but at least then you won't have to turn away quite so many people on the dress code clause.

Lastly, it's easy to get angry at attendees for misinformation. However, it's surprisingly easy to miss vital information at a con, sometimes even when you're paying attention. In '04, I plastered the karaoke audition rules all over the lobby, gave a copy to the info desk, and reiterated them twice during the auditions, but some well-meaning entrants still managed to slip through the cracks. When this happens, about all we can do is apologize and try harder next year, regardless of who was at fault. Just don't get upset about it, because frustration makes everyone unhappier.
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Offline kylite

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2007, 08:16:07 pm »

and the badge thing i have to agree with you all on that. my friend was pain in some kind of beast outfit from FFX-2 and it was so hard for her to get her badge on and off with her huge horns! she finaly put it around her waisnt and made sure that it showed in front and they yelled at her about it. next year guys go with a black not a red. it will get less complaints

i know what you mean about the badge thing. we had ours pinned at the waist pretty much all weekend, and only on Sunday night did one person tell us to pin them up. BUT the thing is... if we had been wearing the badges on lanyards, they would have been hanging at our waist anyway! do not understand :/

lemme see if I can answer this one.

when a person wears the badge with lanyard around their neck, they make it easy to see both items (even if the badge does get turned around alot)

The badge says you paid for admission, the lanyard says you actually went thru the admission process to have the badge cleared in the registration system.

having only one or the other visible causes the security to respond accordingly.

Now I do understand tying the lanyard and badge to your waist band or other costume parts to make it more "pretty" and less "in the way" BUT security needs to check each and every person who comes and goes from each room at a single glance.

Often the badge being pinned or tied in other locations ends up being hidden under clothing, behind props, tucked into the shirts, etc... and we have to stop you and ask to see it. Now if you PREFER that we stop you each time you pass us, by all means. I personally would prefer to make it easier on you AND the security staff to make the badge and lanyard visible at all times thus allowing for easy access in and out of all panels and events.

I really hope this doesn't come off sounding rude or mean as it is not intended to be. I just wanted you to understand why we kept stressing over badge and lanyard placement.
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Offline kekame

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2007, 09:15:42 pm »
Now I do understand tying the lanyard and badge to your waist band or other costume parts to make it more "pretty" and less "in the way" BUT security needs to check each and every person who comes and goes from each room at a single glance.

Often the badge being pinned or tied in other locations ends up being hidden under clothing, behind props, tucked into the shirts, etc... and we have to stop you and ask to see it. Now if you PREFER that we stop you each time you pass us, by all means. I personally would prefer to make it easier on you AND the security staff to make the badge and lanyard visible at all times thus allowing for easy access in and out of all panels and events.

I understand what you're saying, but the answer is YES. Yes, I would like to be stopped every time I walk into an event rather than have my cosplay look cheesy. I spent 35 dollars on registration, but I spent a heck of a lot more than that (think three digit numbers) on each of my costumes.

It might sound like I'm being anal, but when I'm sewing my own costumes, styling my own wigs, making my own props... trying to make sure everything is perfect... that shouldn't be ruined by someone who couldn't possibly be bothered to look at someone's waist instead of their chest. =/

Don't get me wrong, I think con staff have the right to view someone's badge whenever they'd like, but once proper ID has been shown, it would be nice if the harrassing stopped there, particularly if the person has a costume with spikey hair or something like that.

Anyhow, I'm just repeating myself. That's just my opinion... all in all, it was just a minor annoyance. I kind of screwed the rules all weekend and wore it on my waist anyways. It was only a couple of staff that ever even said anything anyways. *shrug*
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Offline Trumby

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2007, 11:03:42 pm »
Oh, and I was going to ask at whoever actually attended closing ceremonies, why did they choose to change locations again? I liked the one this year. Was it just cause they were expecting growth or what? I'm wondering how many people were there.
The reasoning for changing locations is simple: the staff wanted the Lloyd Center Doubletree since the 2005 con was over, just unfortunately it was booked way in advance for 2006 and 2007. I believe it is one of the hotels in or near Portland that has the biggest convention space (and can hold more people) which is a big thing for us..as well as being centrally located in Portland, next to a mall which means plenty of food, plus the MAX which means people who in Portland don't drive can very easily commute to the con (it was how I got to the con in 2005). I believe the number for this year was 3003 attendees (not including staff). That is almost 800 more than last year...I don't even want to think of what next year will be like! o.o
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Offline MistressLegato

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2007, 11:28:16 pm »
My badge came with a clippy part and a lanyard, so I could wear it clipped to my collar OR on teh lanyard.  If the lanyard clashed with your costumes, why didn't you just clip it somewhere?  Or did the pre-reg badges not come with clippies?

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Offline kekame

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2007, 11:34:34 pm »
The reasoning for changing locations is simple: the staff wanted the Lloyd Center Doubletree since the 2005 con was over, just unfortunately it was booked way in advance for 2006 and 2007. I believe it is one of the hotels in or near Portland that has the biggest convention space (and can hold more people) which is a big thing for us..as well as being centrally located in Portland, next to a mall which means plenty of food, plus the MAX which means people who in Portland don't drive can very easily commute to the con (it was how I got to the con in 2005). I believe the number for this year was 3003 attendees (not including staff). That is almost 800 more than last year...I don't even want to think of what next year will be like! o.o

Thank you! That's cool to know. I do agree Portland is totally a cooler city, and heck, I live like 6 hours away, so it makes no difference to me, but I know the Max is very convenient for lots of folks. Not paying tax is cool too. The only reason I said I liked this location was that I really didn't like the particular hotel last year. Again, thanks so much!

My badge came with a clippy part and a lanyard, so I could wear it clipped to my collar OR on teh lanyard.  If the lanyard clashed with your costumes, why didn't you just clip it somewhere?  Or did the pre-reg badges not come with clippies?

Nope, atleast mine and my roommate's ones didn't.
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Offline Trumby

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2007, 11:39:31 pm »
Thank you! That's cool to know. I do agree Portland is totally a cooler city, and heck, I live like 6 hours away, so it makes no difference to me, but I know the Max is very convenient for lots of folks. Not paying tax is cool too. The only reason I said I liked this location was that I really didn't like the particular hotel last year. Again, thanks so much!
Not a problem! In fact I'd say most people would agree with the fact that we didn't really like last years hotel.. <.<

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Offline MichaelEvans

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2007, 11:54:19 pm »
The reasoning for changing locations is simple: the staff wanted the Lloyd Center Doubletree since the 2005 con was over, just unfortunately it was booked way in advance for 2006 and 2007. I believe it is one of the hotels in or near Portland that has the biggest convention space (and can hold more people) which is a big thing for us..as well as being centrally located in Portland, next to a mall which means plenty of food, plus the MAX which means people who in Portland don't drive can very easily commute to the con (it was how I got to the con in 2005). I believe the number for this year was 3003 attendees (not including staff). That is almost 800 more than last year...I don't even want to think of what next year will be like! o.o

Thank you! That's cool to know. I do agree Portland is totally a cooler city, and heck, I live like 6 hours away, so it makes no difference to me, but I know the Max is very convenient for lots of folks. Not paying tax is cool too. The only reason I said I liked this location was that I really didn't like the particular hotel last year. Again, thanks so much!

My badge came with a clippy part and a lanyard, so I could wear it clipped to my collar OR on teh lanyard.  If the lanyard clashed with your costumes, why didn't you just clip it somewhere?  Or did the pre-reg badges not come with clippies?

Nope, atleast mine and my roommate's ones didn't.
I think there might be some slight confusion here.  I didn't personally notice a single lanyard without a clip for the badge (red or black), however I noticed none with a 'clip' or other separation device by the neck.  I believe that that is what you were asking for earlier (or in another thread), a way of removing/donning the badge in the way that is expected by staff at the event doors that is easy and isn't interfered with by head portions of costume/hairstyle.
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Offline Radien

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2007, 04:04:20 pm »
The hosts straight-up say they pick people at random.  It's supposed to be funny and pointless.  As Sven said at the beginning this year:

"We are the monkeys who they gave microphones to so that all of you could entertain yourselves."

Well, yeah, you're saying that the way they want to run the game isn't the same as how I would do it: they take the microphones and just wing it. That really isn't any big surprise to me. I just think that for this particular event, it would be better if they chose to prepare rather than improvise.


Big Chris and Jesus got picked.  Frankly, they were crowd favorites and people wanted to see them up there.

Crowd response isn't necessarily a good way to measure the success of an event. For instance, years ago at another con I attended, there was a particular person who always got in front of the audience at a major event and did the same routine every year. About 1/3rd of the audience went hog wild, but the people who were dead sick of him made no noise at all. Just because they hate a performance doesn't mean they're going to "boo" it, and when it's "silence versus screaming," screaming always wins.

Do people agree with me? I don't know. But if I kept my opinion to myself until I figure out whether it's a popular opinion, then I'm not really being honest with myself.

Edit: By the way, I'm not saying that I disliked any of the popular faces that were brought on stage during the game. Big Chris and Nick are both cool people and I always say hi to them in the halls, at least. And who could hate Buddy Jesus?


Of course they're not.  It's not to be used as a dating service.  The whole point (if you want to say there IS a point) is to have a bunch of people answer a bunch of silly questions and act stupid on stage for the entertainment of the audience.

All I'm saying is that I prefer the way they do the dating game at Sakura Con, or at least the way they did it a few years ago.

No one truly expects the game to produce a successful couple (although it has happened once before). But I like seeing the interaction between two single people who are joking around, even if they're totally insincere (as they usually are).


They're picked at the con the day of the dating game.  They probably wouldn't have time to write their own questions, and they wouldn't necessarily be able to come up with questions that would have the potential for lots of humorous sexual innuendo on the fly.

Here's how it could be done:

Write a bunch of questions. For the ones used to initially thin out the audience, have the bachelor(ette) choose their preferred answer. This should take 3 minutes tops, before the event starts, since they're all yes/no and either/or questions.

Regarding the questions that are asked after the 3-4 contestants have been picked and the bachelor(ette) is brought back on stage, the bachelor(ette) doesn't need to pre-choose answers (since they're pretty open-ended), but it would sound much less awkward if they were allowed to at least see the cards beforehand, so they can make variations. Sometimes when they're on stage they read the question aloud and then make an expression that says "WTF?"

Anyway, like I said, I'm not suggesting anything that hasn't been done before. If the majority of people don't agree with me, that's fine, because it'll just mean that I'm outvoted. I realize that I'm sometimes a weirdo among weirdos (I tend to like obscure games and anime, for starters). However, even if that turned out to be the case, I don't think my personal preference is impractical or unreasonable.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2007, 04:14:56 pm by Radien »
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Offline Radien

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2007, 04:32:29 pm »
We have already inquired about charging admission and we were told that Kumoricon dosnt want anyone to charage anything if they want to get into any events, just admission.

Well, yeah, for official events, that's apparently the policy. I think I was a little unclear, so let me detail what I was suggesting:

Right now, the Gothic Lolita Tea Party is an official event. If you want it to be exclusive and want to charge admission so more people can be served tea and crumpets (or whatever your pastry of choice may be), then it might be possible to make it an unofficial event occurring AT Kumori Con.

The best example of an unofficial event at a con is a room party. Those aren't sponsored by the convention, but as long as they follow the rules of the hotel and the convention, they are perfectly legit.

The main problem with my suggestion is finding a place to hold a tea party, since it can't be held in somebody's hotel room. Kumori Con arranges to reserve space for events, meaning most events that use reserved space are considered "official" in some capacity.

If I were you, I would start asking the directors about the rules behind photo shoots. After all, photo shoots are semi-exclusive events that are scheduled, but aren't run by convention staff. If you were able to classify the tea party as a "photo shoot with refreshments," you might be able to achieve something closer to what you want. I'm not sure how photo-driven the tea party is, but that's the best idea I have at the moment.

...Personally, though, I have yet to understand why exclusivity is so much more important for the EGL community than the con at large.  I've been seeing costumes from all sorts of non-anime-related games and shows since I started attending conventions, and I've learned to take it in stride, or at LEAST just laugh about it. It's usually a lot better to light a candle than to curse the darkness. Rest assured, you WILL meet other Gothic-Loli fans who are like you, along with the Gothic-Loli fans who are not.



Thank you radien. It's good to see someone with common sense.

Thank you. ^^  I appreciate your comment.

Quite often I've had to learn the hard way, though. ><;
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Offline Neko_Chan

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #35 on: September 08, 2007, 08:56:43 pm »
We have already inquired about charging admission and we were told that Kumoricon dosnt want anyone to charage anything if they want to get into any events, just admission.

Well, yeah, for official events, that's apparently the policy. I think I was a little unclear, so let me detail what I was suggesting:

Right now, the Gothic Lolita Tea Party is an official event. If you want it to be exclusive and want to charge admission so more people can be served tea and crumpets (or whatever your pastry of choice may be), then it might be possible to make it an unofficial event occurring AT Kumori Con.

The best example of an unofficial event at a con is a room party. Those aren't sponsored by the convention, but as long as they follow the rules of the hotel and the convention, they are perfectly legit.

The main problem with my suggestion is finding a place to hold a tea party, since it can't be held in somebody's hotel room. Kumori Con arranges to reserve space for events, meaning most events that use reserved space are considered "official" in some capacity.

If I were you, I would start asking the directors about the rules behind photo shoots. After all, photo shoots are semi-exclusive events that are scheduled, but aren't run by convention staff. If you were able to classify the tea party as a "photo shoot with refreshments," you might be able to achieve something closer to what you want. I'm not sure how photo-driven the tea party is, but that's the best idea I have at the moment.

...Personally, though, I have yet to understand why exclusivity is so much more important for the EGL community than the con at large.  I've been seeing costumes from all sorts of non-anime-related games and shows since I started attending conventions, and I've learned to take it in stride, or at LEAST just laugh about it. It's usually a lot better to light a candle than to curse the darkness. Rest assured, you WILL meet other Gothic-Loli fans who are like you, along with the Gothic-Loli fans who are not.



Thank you radien. It's good to see someone with common sense.

Thank you. ^^  I appreciate your comment.

Quite often I've had to learn the hard way, though. ><;

Personally, I feel like we shouldn't have to run off into someone's hotel room to have our events in order to save offending someone. Thank you for the explanation though. We just feel like we would like a lolita-exlusive event to celebrate everyone's being lolita, there are events where people can celebrate beig yaoi-fans or cosplayers and such, we should have our events also.

And for the exclusive-ness of the lolita community;
We put alot (I mean, ALOT, more than is sane) money, time and effort into being lolita. I'm not saying that people who dont put alot of money or effort into it arent lolita, I just would put them at the same standard.
Lolita is not a costume. Some people choose to treat it as such and it really is quite insulting to see someone degrading the way you dress by imitating it (I know that imitation is the highest form of flattery, but not when it's done to a level that it no longer exhibits lolita fashion's qualities or rules). Theres a line that a large portion of lolitas online stand by is a little something like, If you want to be a unique snowflake in the way you dress, not conforming to anyone's standards or ideas, and then dress lolita aswell, those are two mutually exclusive things and impossible to do.

My friend Amani from NY says:
"If a "business suit" does not look like a business suit, does not have the same form, attitude, and class as one, then it is simply not a business suit in the professional's eye. It's the same with Lolita. Lolita fashion is first and foremost a fashion, and a formal one at that, so if you cannot dress formal, and dress how it is supposed to be dressed, then it is simply NOT."

Offline Rathany

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2007, 12:49:56 am »
We have already inquired about charging admission and we were told that Kumoricon dosnt want anyone to charage anything if they want to get into any events, just admission.

Well, yeah, for official events, that's apparently the policy. I think I was a little unclear, so let me detail what I was suggesting:

Right now, the Gothic Lolita Tea Party is an official event. If you want it to be exclusive and want to charge admission so more people can be served tea and crumpets (or whatever your pastry of choice may be), then it might be possible to make it an unofficial event occurring AT Kumori Con.

The best example of an unofficial event at a con is a room party. Those aren't sponsored by the convention, but as long as they follow the rules of the hotel and the convention, they are perfectly legit.

The main problem with my suggestion is finding a place to hold a tea party, since it can't be held in somebody's hotel room. Kumori Con arranges to reserve space for events, meaning most events that use reserved space are considered "official" in some capacity.

If I were you, I would start asking the directors about the rules behind photo shoots. After all, photo shoots are semi-exclusive events that are scheduled, but aren't run by convention staff. If you were able to classify the tea party as a "photo shoot with refreshments," you might be able to achieve something closer to what you want. I'm not sure how photo-driven the tea party is, but that's the best idea I have at the moment.

...Personally, though, I have yet to understand why exclusivity is so much more important for the EGL community than the con at large.  I've been seeing costumes from all sorts of non-anime-related games and shows since I started attending conventions, and I've learned to take it in stride, or at LEAST just laugh about it. It's usually a lot better to light a candle than to curse the darkness. Rest assured, you WILL meet other Gothic-Loli fans who are like you, along with the Gothic-Loli fans who are not.



Thank you radien. It's good to see someone with common sense.

Thank you. ^^  I appreciate your comment.

Quite often I've had to learn the hard way, though. ><;

Personally, I feel like we shouldn't have to run off into someone's hotel room to have our events in order to save offending someone. Thank you for the explanation though. We just feel like we would like a lolita-exlusive event to celebrate everyone's being lolita, there are events where people can celebrate beig yaoi-fans or cosplayers and such, we should have our events also.

And for the exclusive-ness of the lolita community;
We put alot (I mean, ALOT, more than is sane) money, time and effort into being lolita. I'm not saying that people who dont put alot of money or effort into it arent lolita, I just would put them at the same standard.
Lolita is not a costume. Some people choose to treat it as such and it really is quite insulting to see someone degrading the way you dress by imitating it (I know that imitation is the highest form of flattery, but not when it's done to a level that it no longer exhibits lolita fashion's qualities or rules). Theres a line that a large portion of lolitas online stand by is a little something like, If you want to be a unique snowflake in the way you dress, not conforming to anyone's standards or ideas, and then dress lolita aswell, those are two mutually exclusive things and impossible to do.

My friend Amani from NY says:
"If a "business suit" does not look like a business suit, does not have the same form, attitude, and class as one, then it is simply not a business suit in the professional's eye. It's the same with Lolita. Lolita fashion is first and foremost a fashion, and a formal one at that, so if you cannot dress formal, and dress how it is supposed to be dressed, then it is simply NOT."

I admit to being confused by this Tea Party Event.  I go to multiple cons each year and all the events I am aware of are all about "Try This!"  or "Come Learn About This!" or "Join us in doing this".  This includes events I have run myself.  So, an event that is kind of the opposite of that is going to confuse people.  It's not what people expect at cons.

Now, I am not saying that this event should not take place, but I am saying that there needs to be a way to handle it that does not involve telling people that they are not part of the group and can't attend.  If I had tried to go and was turned away I would be upset.  Perhaps it does make more sense to make it like a cosplay meetup, where people who are part of a group meet up and do something. 
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Offline RoamingGnome

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2007, 07:41:02 am »
Well I think in this case it was a panel that was more "Hi if your Lolita come join us for Tea."  Now maybe next year they can have a "This is what Lolita is" panel.  Just a suggestion.

Offline Neko_Chan

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #38 on: September 13, 2007, 05:23:11 pm »
 ::)  >:(
We DID have a How To. I saw NO ONE in line for tea tea party that had come to our "What is lolita fashion?" panel. I'm sorry that I cannot convey my pissed-off-idness over the internet to you, but really, you think we'd just tell people to go away before giving them a chance to learn WHY they werent lolita? I told one girl her outfit was maid-ish. Maids =/= lolita. And she just retorted with "WHATS MAIDISH ABOUT IT?" Those people HAD a chance to learn what was lolita and what wasnt. They chose to either be a) rude about it b) ignore it.

Really. UGH.

Perhaps we need to spell it out better next year. Put in the con book in BIG BOLD LETTERS;

"DONT TURN UP TO THIS EVENT UNLESS YOU ARE PREPARED TO POSSIBLY BE TURNED AWAY"? Or maybe "DONT TURN UP TO THIS EVENT ULESS YOU ARE LOLITA. NO MAIDS. NO COSPLAY. NO VISUAL KEI."

Sorry that so many of you were "confused" by this event. I thought we made it perfectly clear what the tea party WAS in the con book. This year I think we might have to write a novel to get the point across.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2007, 05:27:03 pm by Neko_Chan »

Offline RoamingGnome

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #39 on: September 13, 2007, 05:53:49 pm »
Uhm.... One that wasn't ment as a hit on you guys.  I'm sorry I didn't know that you had.  I guess thats from working most the con and not getting to see what was going on.  Though I was there to watch your door to make sure nobody tried to cause any trouble during one of your panels.

Offline x_Azrael_x

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #40 on: September 13, 2007, 08:26:10 pm »
In regards to all posts complaining about the lolita tea party--

The lolita tea party is for people involved in lolita fashion, guys. They did have a how to panel I think a mere two hours before the tea party, to help clarify anything.

These girls put a lot of hard work, time, into their outfits, their panels, everything they do. I think it's incredibly rude to nag at them for a dress code they wrote up for THEIR event, which they put their own time and effort into organizing.

Honestly. If there was a 'WoW addicts' panel, and you'd never played WoW, would you show up and have long thoughtful discussion with any of the people there? It'd be impossible. It's the same here.

The lolita girls who ran the panel are all very polite and helpful--if you're willing to take their advice, they'll help you out any and all ways they can, because they take a lot of pride in what they do. If you were interested in the lolita fashion, I personally would assume you'd have done at least a little research on it. It's not that hard.

It's not cosplay. If you'd turned any of these girls away from your 'Cosplay tea party' not one of them would be offended.

Don't pick at them for anything you didn't know. They did their very best to make sure people were educated beforehand. It was a formal event, with a dress code that required you dress lolita.

There are several places online where you can get a better grasp on what the fashion is, and what it consists of. Or--and you would think this would be obvious, you can ask one of several well dressed young women to educate you on the various rules, aspects, and personal experiences with/in the fashion.

It is a -fashion-, people. It isn't a costume, there's different leniences for both. I'm sure a lot of you cosplayers would be just as aggrivated if you were trying to give someone helpful advice etc and they turned up their nose at you.

This is not an instance of discrimination of any kind--Lolita is lolita because of the DRESS style, not who is wearing it or what their beliefs or other interests are. Lolita is not a naruto wig and a poofy skirt. Lolita is YOU, yourself, not another character, dressing in a rococo or victorian styled manner constructed from HIGH QUALITY MATERIALS--If you wouldn't pay 5 bucks for it, it's not lolita. It's not satin or costume or neon materials. People get that confused often, and again, it doesn't take ANY effort whatsoever to ask someone who knows what they're doing to help/assist you.

If you all want a better grasp on what lolita is so you can attend these panels and want to be involved in them, and are truly open minded about it, simply ask anyone from said panels, or myself, for help. No one, and I mean this literally, no one who has a good grasp on the lolita fashion is going to turn you away if you ask for advice and don't argue.

Honestly, it requires some dedication, it requires some patience, as Neko_chan said--it's a lot like a business suit. If it looks cheap, tacky, and not fit for a business environment, it's not a business suit. Just as if lolita looks cheap, like a costume, it's not lolita. These clothes are extravagant but are not costume, and getting that down takes some effort, and an understanding that you will be constructively given criticism to help improve your grasp on it.

As much as I'm sure the lot of you would have love to be personally catered to at that moment , attending the aforementioned panel would have done you a lot of good. Now, we have forums, email contact, etc. You have all the time in the world, or time until the next con and the next set of lolita events to figure out what it is, what to wear, etc.

And you know what the greatest thing about that is? You'll -know- you look excellent, and you WILL look excellent.

Offline TomtheFanboy

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #41 on: September 19, 2007, 07:27:57 am »
The Lolita tea party cannot be a room party. It's too big and elegant to fit in someone's hotel room. The Lolita's have spent too much money on their beautiful clothes to afford their own meeting space outside the convention. Thus, they must continue to be a convention event and work with the rules of a convention.

Next year they will know what to improve on. They had their panel in the morning to explain Lolita more, but perhaps next year they can fill out a sign form and have a nice sign with a large explanation of the fashion provided by the convention. Then people turned away can see what the reason was.

Now, for everyone else.
Everyone loved the Doubletree.
Everyone wanted to be at the Doubletree.
So, since we could get it, next year we'll be at the Doubletree.
After next year, who knows where we'll be, because we'll be Fing HUGE!

If certain precautions had been made every night, the vendor's area wouldn't have been quite so bad. However, these were only taken on the first evening and not repeated Saturday and Sunday night.
Ironically, the Exhibitor's Hall will be UNDER the parking garage next year!
Tom the Fanboy
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Pocky Club President 2005-2010

Offline RemSaverem

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #42 on: September 19, 2007, 09:25:46 am »
In our the_creation_station yahoo group, really the only consistent complaint was that there were times that the sound systems for the larger events, particularly those w/music, boomed enough that it made it hard to hear some conversation-only panels and verbal-instruction workshops (notably a few things in cedar and occasionally the religion in anime panel).

However, one of the great things about the Doubletree is that, at least in 2005, we also were able to get the Executive Wing or whatever it's called, and that's where our first Fan Creation Station was held (though we had a fanfic-only Beta Station at KC 2004 at the Marriott). And it's so far removed from the rest of con events that we could all hear each other! It was great! I hope that whomever is the next Programming Chair will put the fanfic/art room there again, and perhaps at least one or two rooms in that wing could be for quieter panels :)

Meantime, what if the lolita party could be even more formal--maybe folks could have to apply ahead of time online to attend, submit photos or vivid descriptions or sketches of what they'd be wearing, get approved, then be issued a formal invitation?

believe it or not i'm not saying that in jest. it could add to the fun, and minimize the felt sense of those not allowed in  at-con of harrassment, judgement, and exclusion.

then in the con book it would have to say something like "by invitation only".

just a thought. my personal leaning is that anyone who makes a sincere attempt to be part of a culture should be welcomed at any con event. i personally am very uncomfortable with any attendance standards that really are economic issues....how much time and money someone has for cultivating an aesthetic.

with cosplay, there are special prizes for authenticity. i'm all for that. but there aren't barriers to observing the contest based on what you can afford to produce
« Last Edit: September 19, 2007, 09:27:51 am by RemSaverem »
Ellen. 2003: Fanfic panelist & contest judge.
2004: Beta Station Coord. 2005: Fan Creation Station Coord.;pre-event assistant to the con chair.2006: Fanfic Mgr/C.S. Coord.
2007, 8, 9, 10: Fan Creation Manager. 2011: Writing & Editing Coord (Publicity).

Offline Neko_Chan

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #43 on: September 19, 2007, 05:04:56 pm »
Oregon has the second highest minimum wage in the country. I dont have a job. My parents don't pay for my lolita habit, except at christmas when I get a few cute things. I babysit. I sell manga I am no longer intrested in, and I babysit and do chores.

I realize if you're under 15 or you phsyically cannot work, but just being lazy about not working isnt going to cut it. Lolita is never going to be cheap if you're looking for good quality off the websites, and even if you use a shopping service and bid and win on something on somewhere like Mbok or Yahoo Japan Auctions, there's still a commision fee and shipping, etc.

I'm sorry that you dont feel we're inclusive enough. We honestly put SO MUCH of ourselves intot these clothes we want to be surrounded by people who are like us in that way. I do know we all have to start somewhere but... yeah.

I think I'll try and get the point across clearer in the booklet next year.

Offline MichaelEvans

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #44 on: September 19, 2007, 06:02:57 pm »
The phrase, "Extremely Strict Dress Code" springs to mind as a good warning.  Followed up by making it Very clear beforehand what the dress code is and isn't.  Which is pretty much what's already been said on this subject in many areas, but it's good to re-iterate those key points.  So good in fact, that something to that effect should be in the title that's in the schedules.
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2007: Website Administration (Mascot Voting Input, Live Schedule)

Offline Ruriko

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Re: 2007 Review Thread
« Reply #45 on: September 26, 2007, 11:00:19 pm »
We had a great time-- the parking garage got to be painfully hot, but it was still a lot of fun.  :3  It was sad that, because we spent so much time at our booth this year, we didn't get to go to any panels, but after hearing all of this, I'm glad that I got to spend time with the people that came by and chatted at our booth instead.  *sigh*  The more Lolita drama that goes on in this forum gives me less and less respect for it.

Thanks again to everybody who stopped by.  :3  The girls across the way in the artist alley booth were so much love.  So was Miss D, and Bastett, and the ladykins at the cat ear panel and totemo and and and!!  :)