Kumoricon 2011 Exhibitors Hall Discussion and Comments

[BlackjackGabbiani]

This whole debacle with the dealer hall is simply absurd.

Frankly, after waiting the entire year to hear anything, to simply see the list slapped up on the site with a note telling all hopefuls what basically boiled down to "lol nope" is just disrespectful. What makes you think that anybody will want to sell at the convention after all this? I can easily see this tearing apart the entire con.

I can speak only for myself, but I was told back when we were asked to send in descriptions of our shops that my chances sounded pretty good. Yet somewhere along the lines this changed to "snowball's chance in hell". Inexcusable, especially since I can't possibly be the only one.

Honestly, the whole thing reminds me of when I got a press badge at Sakura Con to do an interview that they never intended to let me do in the first place--a whole lot of leadup to nothing, with a hope that never should have been granted if they had no intention of ever letting it happen at all. And I stopped going to Sakura Con. Do you want people to stop coming to Kumoricon? Because with the disrespect potential vendors have been given over the past several months, that certainly seems to be the case.

I'll come this year, but only because I'm highly invested in the costume I'm making and it would otherwise be a complete loss. For next year...well, frankly, you have a lot to do to win me back, and I know for a fact that I'm not alone in that.


_{(edit: Renamed thread to be the new SAY IT! for this year. It's a little early, but it's better to hear about things beforehand anyway. ~randompvg)
(edit: I re-renamed the thread per OP's request because this does deserve its own topic (not that I am faulting random, he did right) and I merged the other topic on the subject with this one so all discussion can be seen and be responded to easily. ~Ally Fields Dir. Publicity)}

[ObiJay]

Honestly, I agree with you on this. We've been waiting, and I had been checking the website daily, both the forum, the website itself and my email. If I had gotten an email saying "Thank you for applying, but unfortunately we did not select you." I would not be upset at all. However, none of us did. I do not know for a fact how many other potential vendors applied, and I fully understood that the space this year was limited. All that is fine. What bothers me is that we could have applied to Artist's Alley instead, but we wanted to make BlackCat Gadgeteering's Kumoricon debut as an exhibitor, we wanted to take our business to the next level. We saved up our sales from previous cons to make the big change here. We also thought we had a chance from previous email communications. We could have pre-registered at the $35 dollar rate, but no, potential vendors were told to hold off instead, so we did. I have no grudge against any of the vendors that did get in, most of them are long time vendors and have big store frontends, it makes sense to have them. I've met the man that runs Steambaby, he makes some absolutely gorgeous wares, and in the steampunk community he's much more recognized than we are. Still, to find out we weren't selected by a blurb on the website? That's just absolutely ridiculous. Especially three weeks before the convention itself. I never thought they could top the hotel debacle from the past two years, but they did in my eyes with this. I used to love this con, hell I used to love it more than SakuraCon, but at this point, I'm done. Forget applying again, if this is the treatment I can expect, I can find better places for abuse.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

Exactly. Rejection we can take. But dismissal is something else entirely.

[Gryffinclaw Princess]

While I may not be a dealer, I was looking into making things for con and probably ending up in AA. I know these are two different 'issues' but in my mind they are very similar. The DH has ALWAYS been a big thing for me at cons. It is where I spend most of my time. My non-social older brother agreed for the first time ever to go to a con with me because of how I described the DH. I know there is still going to be a DH but I am not pleased with what I have heard about how some of the Dealers are treated. It's just plain rude and disrespectful...
Because of everything I have seen happen it will be very unlikely I will attend con again unless things change. I am highly regretting already buying and receiving three badges for this year (for me and family) not only because of this but because of how I have been treated by some of the mods here. If there was any chance of a refund, I would gladly grab it up and get back my $120 I already invested in this. It's inexcusable how we are all being treated (even if I'm only effected on a sidestanding point with the DH debacle) and how information is greatly lacking this year. Like Blackjack said...good luck getting me to come to another con after this year. It's going to take a lot.

[shikyo]

I love kumoricon, my first one was in 2006 but the one reason I even go to cons is because of the dealers hall and now my favorite vendor isn't there even though he's been coming for so long. He was the only way I could get my yaoi manga in hand, now seeing that borders doesn't exsist...
Also seeing how the vendors are being treated, that's just plain rude and unprofessional... I'm not sure as to what all happened but at least saying sorry would be better then nothing. *shrugs*
I don't know how all this works with the vendors but maybe after the con start early with doing the whole legal thing so you can get vendors in early.
I wont hold any of this against the con itself, people put there time into to make it fun for everyone and they don't get paid. But I don't think I will be going next year..

[BlackjackGabbiani]

To be fair, shikyo, there's still Barnes & Noble. And Powell's if you live in the area.

But yes, at a convention is an entirely different environment.



...I don't like how the title of the thread was changed. Perhaps change it to make it more on-subject, but to make it into a general rant topic is not what I had in mind at all.

[Ritsu-chan]

The DH and the raves are what I look foward to most, if the dealers hall is crappy, my con will be crappy, that is the best part of kumo, being able to buy things from the vendors you can't find anywhere else.... Looks like the people in charge have some damage control to take care of and maybe next year pick a location where there is actually enough room for the DH...

[nerdtastic]

Wait...only 20 dealer tables? Am I reading this right?! What in the world am I missing?!

That's HORRIBLE!

And to think...I pre-reg'd this year for the first time ever. Blah.

The dealer hall is always my favorite part of any con...pretty disappointed...I really hope I'm missing something here! (Yes, I know the artists haven't been posted.)

[BlackjackGabbiani]

They have limited space. But at the same time, there's a pretty huge difference between "limited space" and "only 20 vendors many of whom are either industry or other conventions". To say nothing of the fact that that see that note below it, about how everyone else is out of luck? That's the only notification most people got, who had been waiting for months to hear about getting in.

[Saki-the-cat]

They have limited space. But at the same time, there's a pretty huge difference between "limited space" and "only 20 vendors many of whom are either industry or other conventions". To say nothing of the fact that that see that note below it, about how everyone else is out of luck? That's the only notification most people got, who had been waiting for months to hear about getting in.

Yeah...That's kind of ass...Hopefully they'll fix up their mess next year.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

Hopefully they'll fix it THIS year. Granted at this point it's basically a wash, but honestly they have to keep hearing that this is unacceptable because it is.

[Saki-the-cat]

Yeah, i'm kind of curious as to what Kumoricon's problem is this year. I mean, first it was the countless badges that were the wronf colors, now it's the dealers hall. Is there different staff running this year or what?

[BlackjackGabbiani]

From what I understand, the current Vendor Hall head was only brought in a few months ago, and there was some mess with a contract and a lawyer.

But that doesn't excuse leading people on for all the year and then saying "lol nope" literally a month before the con. If you're going to fill up on industry and other conventions, TELL US. Don't let us think that we're going to have a shot at things if we don't. And if we DID at some point, TELL US THAT THE PLAN CHANGED. It's heartless otherwise.

[Saki-the-cat]

I kind of see what you're saying. I mean, if they had problems with the vendors hall a few months ago, even if they wern't sure, they could've at least sent everyone to applied to be a vendor an Email or something that said, "there is a chance that only [insert number here] of you will be able to work in the vendors hall this year due to complications."

[nerdtastic]

So they  have 2 hotels now, got away from the "small" hotel in downtown PDX...and now there's 20...dealers? TWENTY?

Still can't get over that. Very disappointed.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

They did tell us there was a chance we might not get in. But it was phrased closer to "there's limited space so you all need to apply and we'll pick the unique stores" rather than "only if these people that we haven't mentioned yet decline".

[Ritsu-chan]

Really?! Are you KIDDING ME?! This has to be a bad joke or something... With other con booths filling up space and kumo's booth what we'll be left with is effing 15 vendors, can't the open vendors in more than one location because this is BS....

[BlackjackGabbiani]

Not kidding at all. We were told to apply for Washington State business licenses and, if we wanted, to send in descriptions of our shops.

When I did so, I got this reply:
"We are looking for companies who have a versitile selection of goods to offer our convention goers with diversity of other companies that are also interesting in vending for the convention.  Sounds like you have a good mix of product.  We are awaiting the finalized contracts before sending them out.  At this point we are looking to see how we can get a good mix of merchandise for the convention."
That was June 9th.

[EveofAbyss]

Yeah, I did think the vendor list seemed unusually short when I read it. And looking at the pocket guide from 2007 (when Kumoricon was last here), there were 39 vendors (not counting Artists' Alley) then. Is the Vendor Hall not in the Hilton this year? If it is, I wonder what changed as far as capacity. Hmm, very interesting. Hopefully this won't be too much of a wet blanket over the weekend, because the Vendor's Hall has always been a beloved chunk of the con.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

Vendor Hall is in Red Lion this year. Although I've asked a few times about why it's not in the Hilton parking garage again and haven't recieved an answer. I mean, if it's full that's fine, but at least answer when someone asks it. Not to mention that I also asked about the Red Lion because, with nothing else being said to be there at this time, there's three places to have a vendor hall that would be HUGE. There's the entire conference area, there's the room in the front of the hotel, and there's the big room off the parking lot. Have vendors in all of them, including the Sakura Con Booth in somewhere prominant like the lobby of the Red Lion (apparently there's a special deal with the two conventions), and you have room for about twice what you have now.

Again, if there actually IS non-vendor stuff going on in those areas, it shouldn't be a problem to say so. Instead it's met with silence.

[Ritsu-chan]

Yeah, its pretty much my favorite part..

[EveofAbyss]

Oh, in the Red Lion. Okay, well at least that explains why the capacity differs from 2007. Still, hopefully everything works out satisfactorily.

[Saki-the-cat]

Well one other thing to point out is the artists ally, which will hopefully be just as nice as it's always been, so it's not like there only going to be 20 people selling stuff there...

[BlackjackGabbiani]

Still.

I'm trying to arrange another dealer hall, at some other time. I'd like to have the details finalized by the time of the con so that we can advertise it there. The info is in the Plan Your Own Adventure forum.

[nerdtastic]

Yeah, I know there are artists there too, who do some amazing work.

I'm usually more into the licensed toys or blind box toys, etc, etc. Even the loud annoying big guy who yells that his anime is 20% off retail has SOME value to me, etc, etc, haha.

[StarryShay]

Good, because I have no money this year anyway /shot'd

[nerdtastic]

Good, because I have no money this year anyway /shot'd

Haha, yeah, my wallet will be happier, right? I guess I can spend some money on a certain big website with a certain big anime sale now too.

*sniffle*

[XxBelovedxSoubixX]

This sucks.. Couldn't they at least stick the other con booths near registration or something.
When I'm in the dealers hall I'm not looking for there business cards or advertising.
I'm looking for something amazing that I can't easily find somewhere else.

On top of treating the venders with such disrespect they go and through this at us. Good Job. They better be the most amazing venders I've ever seen. It's not like kumoricon is the only convention around here.
I'm sure I can find one that doesn't have as many errors and treats the people who make it worth while with some ounce of respect.

[Coconutty93]

THEY HAVE TWO WHOLE DAMN HOTELS AND THEY CAN'T FIT IN A KUMORICON BALL OR A LARGER DEALER'S HALL??? KUMORICON, YOU ARE SERIOUSLY SUCKING IT THIS YEAR. NEXT YEAR IS GETTING MORE AND MORE IFFY.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

That one just puzzles me. Two raves but no ball? One would think the simplest solution would be to NOT PUT IN TWO OF THE SAME DANCE. If only for the sake of not repeating things!

[mellonemrys]

Hello,

Everyone in the Relations department understands the frustration surrounding the exhibitor's hall this year and we have done our best to accommodate everyone.

The exhibitor hall is at the Red Lion this year because of the major logistical problem of the exhibitor hall in 2007 (the Hilton's garage was used) being extremely warm, with no way to remedy that problem. Unfortunately the next biggest space available to put the exhibitor hall this year was the Centennial Center at the Red Lion. This space only gave us room for 38 booths. We don't have anywhere else in either hotel to put more vendors without sacrificing programming space, which additionally would make the attendees who come only for our programming disappointed. Please understand that we went for the option that would please the most people, without taking away from the convention as a whole. Splitting up the exhibitor's hall into multiple locations also presents huge logistical issues for the convention staff and put unneeded strain on our exhibitor's staff especially.

Why are there only 20 vendors with 38 booths available? That is simply because some vendors were given multiple booths. Due to the fact that some vendors might (and did) receive multiple booths, we were not able to tell potential vendors how many spaces would be available because that would have been misleading.

Teresa (our exhibitor hall manager) picked the vendors for this year very carefully, and after reviewing every request we received for this year.

Addressing the 'Cons and Industry are taking up a large portion of the booths' issue, Sakuracon is the only convention who has a booth in our exhibitor's hall because they give us a space in their exhibitor's hall. As for Industry booths, they donate their time and products to the convention by running panels and giving us prizes for our contests and items for our charity auction. While we are not an industry focused convention we still benefit from the anime and manga industry, and without them we feel like we would not be able to put on the best con possible for our attendees. Every one of our 'industry' booths will be selling their products.

Again, we understand that everyone is frustrated. We really wish we could have had a larger space for the exhibitor's hall, but we are working with what we have and trying to make it the best we can.

- Kate Fletcher
Guest Manager and Industry Liaison

[Coconutty93]

The Hilton should have been thinking about the fact that WE USE ALL OF THEIR SPACE. Lol. Not trying to bash you, you make a very good point, but I blame the Hilton for all of the Dealer's Hall frustration. They should know that by having us use them as our con location, they need to be prepared to surrender all of their space, no matter what. >:O

[Coconutty93]

That one just puzzles me. Two raves but no ball? One would think the simplest solution would be to NOT PUT IN TWO OF THE SAME DANCE. If only for the sake of not repeating things!

I knoooooooowwwwwwww! That bothers me alot! And they say they can't do anything about it because they already hired the DJs. I think that's silly, they shouldn't have hired both of them if we always have a ball. :T

THINK OF THE CON-GOERS.

PS: Sorry about the double post. I didn't notice this was the same thread. =,D

[StarryShay]

Mellon, thanks for working so hard with everybody else to figure this out!
At least we have a dealer's hall at all, guys!
Just because it's less then usual, doesn't mean any of you need to be disrespectful, because this late in the game, nothing can be done!

Everyone is trying there hardest to make Kumoricon fun for us, so try and realize that, instead of causing them more stress, please.

[Jamiche]

We have have all of the Hilton space, including the garage.  It was not viable for Dealer's Hall, but we were able to utilize it for other functions.

As was stated, we have planned things out to utilize all the space available, to best utilize the space.

[Coconutty93]

...

[Jamiche]

That one just puzzles me. Two raves but no ball? One would think the simplest solution would be to NOT PUT IN TWO OF THE SAME DANCE. If only for the sake of not repeating things!

I knoooooooowwwwwwww! That bothers me alot! And they say they can't do anything about it because they already hired the DJs. I think that's silly, they shouldn't have hired both of them if we always have a ball. :T

THINK OF THE CON-GOERS.

PS: Sorry about the double post. I didn't notice this was the same thread. =,D

This thread is for discussion of Dealer's Hall... please keep your posts on-topic.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

I have to say this though--that part about the Hilton garage being too hot being the reason that the hall isn't there this year? Hogwash. It felt like entering a cool cave, something quite welcoming when wearing a trenchcoat as I was that year. People were going in there to cool off.

And the part about reviewing every request--that also, frankly, seems as if it's false. If that was the case, surely at least SOME new applicants would have gotten in. The email I recieved from Teresa about this said
"The contract was not available until recently and the priority Industry and vendors that had previously had arrangements have been notified."
That says nothing about new applicants, only industry and people from previous years. New applicants were not given the chance you claim they were, since none of us had been notified.

We were not given a chance. We had no opportunity to submit applications as no applications were ever presented to us.

[nikkiolie]

Alright it is upsetting that there isn't going to be a whole lot of venders at the con this year. I hate to say it, but get over it. There is nothing that can be done about it this year and all you are going to do is stress staff out who may express that stress on congoers and stress yourself out. If you don't want to go to Kumoricon because of it that is fine by me. The point is, that staff now know the anger about this so stop complaining. I am with Shay on this one, a smaller dealer hall means I wont be spending my money on stuff I don't need, that will also mean that people wont spend as much time there as they have in the past which means the lines will go faster. Oh yeah I bet you guys forgot about the lines to get in. The one that could take an hour to two hours just to make it to the dealers hall.

And Vampire-Kameko, they didn't say that the Hilton did not get us all the space we needed they said that they didn't want to put the dealers hall in the garage where it will be hot. Yes some of us can deal with the heat long enough to look through the items but what about the DEALERS who have to be there from 10-6? Also I remember the dealers having a lot of problems with card machines because they were not getting a good signal from the garage last year.

Putting the venders hall in the other hotel was a good idea. Otherwise they would only have the smaller panel rooms there and thus the other hotel wouldn't get as much action as the main hotel (again like last year). This will also MAJORLY cut down on the crowdedness in either of the hotel.

I believe that the venders were carefuly selected as well. The staff went through the list and said "what would most people want to see?" There was even a topic about it here....with a POLL and it looks like the top two where character goods and more variety. I recognize a lot of the names and I know those ones have the biggest and widest range of selection, so based on that poll they made a choice.

Yes they may have not been the most perfessional about telling people that they did not get in but lets also remember that they are volunteers not paid professionals. Most of them have other jobs to do. I work at least 50 hours a week and I hardly have enough time to sleep and relax in between my jobs. I imagine some of the staff are in the same boat and I could NEVER do staffing on top of that. Here I might be able to give some of you younger guys an example that would better relate to you. It would be like going to school full time, playing a sport full time AND holding a part time job. If you do this then I am sure you are probably weaker in one of those than you are the others, if you are great at all of them congrats you are one of the very few who can do that. But there is probaby one or two of those in the whole staff for Kumoricon. They are doing this for fun. It would be like finishing some sort of game (sport) and everyone who watched the game critizied you after you were done.

So please, for the love of god, build a bridge....

[BlackjackGabbiani]

The fact of the matter is that it's simply shoddy business practices. We were promised a chance to get in. We were never given that chance.

You speak of YOUR reasons, that you'll spend less money, that there'll be shorter lines--but those are just that, your reasons. Others can spend more money than you. Others save up all years. Others don't mind lines, or at least find the end result of waiting to be worthwhile.

I ask you, would you be so quick to dismiss it if you had been promised a chance to submit an employment application, then told that they were setting up a contract for employees, told this for several months running, and then all of a sudden they post that all positions have been filled even though neither you nor anyone else asking had ever recieved that application at all?

Do NOT tell us to "get over it". This is a matter of morals and of business ethics, and the fact of the matter is that Kumoricon failed on both those fronts.

[nikkiolie]

We were promised a chance to get in. We were never given that chance.

a chance to get in

chance

Made my point there. Also the DID give everyone a CHANCE, and they chose the vendors that they thought the most people would like.

I ask you, would you be so quick to dismiss it if you had been promised a chance to submit an employment application, then told that they were setting up a contract for employees, told this for several months running, and then all of a sudden they post that all positions have been filled even though neither you nor anyone else asking had ever recieved that application at all?

I HAVE applied for many jobs. When I was looking for a job I would do well over 100 applications a week and do you know on average how many calls/emails I got from them saying I was called in for an interview AND ones saying they wern't interested? Roughly five or so. Majority of them didn't even bother to respond or send me a generic pre-made email saying they wern't interested. And do you know what I did? I moved on.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

You're missing the entire point of that analogy. We were not given the chance to so much as submit the application, although that had been promised to us several times.

You at least were able to submit them. We were never given the form to begin with.

As I stated earlier in the thread, rejection is different than dismissal. Rejection we can take. Rejection at least comes after a fair chance. Dismissal, though, is what were given, because that chance that was bandied about so much never came. We were promised a chance. That promise was broken.


Additionally, you talked about the poll about what people would like to see in the dealer hall. I invite you to go back and take a look at that poll. Notice when the poll itself expired? December, 2009. Over a year and a half ago.

[nikkiolie]

And I said that they wern't professional about it. I was telling the people who where up set that only 20 vendors were going to be there to get over it, not the people who wanted to be in it. The people that were talking about not seeing their favorite vendor. I'm talking about the people who are saying if the dealer hall sucks this year I am not going to come back next year or I wont have a good time because the only reason I go to con is the dealers hall. Those are the people I was talking to.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

Your fourth and fifth paragraphs seem to be directed at the prospective vendors themselves.

Also, who are you to judge why people come? If, say, gaming was as shoddily run this year and people were saying the same things, would you tell them this? If no guests had yet been confirmed and people were saying the same things?

People are also speaking negatively about the lack of a formal ball, which is a big draw as well, to the point where they're seriously discussing the logistics of having one themselves in the park. Would you go into the thread for that and tell them to "build a bridge"?

[StarryShay]

Well, by even suggesting that we have the ball at the park in the first place, I was attempting to help build a bridge in a sense...
I figured that since we aren't able to have a ball this year, why not take it into our own hands instead of complaining, when nothing will be changed.
All of this arguing is putting stress on the people who work really hard to make Kumoricon happen for us, and that's no good. :<

[BlackjackGabbiani]

There's a link in my signature for anyone who wants to help make a better dealer's room happen this year, outside the convention.

You still make your displeasure known. I know that we can't accomplish anything for THIS convention, but the issue remains that the convention hasn't even taken place and already several major balls have been dropped in the organization and planning of highly popular events. I see no reason NOT to post at this time.

[nikkiolie]

People are also speaking negatively about the lack of a formal ball, which is a big draw as well, to the point where they're seriously discussing the logistics of having one themselves in the park. Would you go into the thread for that and tell them to "build a bridge"?

Nope because they are, like you said, doing something about it rather than sitting on their butts complaining. The decided to organize their own ball. Everyone here is just complaining about it. Why don't you think of ways to sell your stuff outside of the dealers hall. You would actually make more money that way since you aren't paying for a booth. Maybe you could make cards with your information and hand them out or go up and talk to people and see what they are interested in and maybe see if they are intested in buying some of your things.

And something happens every year and the same response is always giving. If you don't like the way something is run volunteer and fix it, but how many people do that? Very few. From a psychology stand point, if you go into something with a negative attitude you are going to have a negative experience, but if you go into something with a positive attitude you will have a positive experience. If I were to only go to the con because of the DH (which I did when I first started going to cons) and I found out that it was going to be smaller I would probably say to myself "thats too bad about the dealers hall, however, this will give me a chance to see other aspects of the convention. Maybe I could go to a panel or a viewing room or check out more cosplayers, and make new friends rather than being in the dealers hall the whole time"

There's a link in my signature for anyone who wants to help make a better dealer's room happen this year, outside the convention.

You still make your displeasure known. I know that we can't accomplish anything for THIS convention, but the issue remains that the convention hasn't even taken place and already several major balls have been dropped in the organization and planning of highly popular events. I see no reason NOT to post at this time.

This is perfect. That is what you should do. Be proactive

What I fear more than having a small dealers hall is the staff to say "screw it, these people complain no matter what we do so why bother," to the point where there are not enough staff to run the con and thus the con can happen or they have to cap it at a much lower number (making people complain more)

[BlackjackGabbiani]

So wait, you tell me that I'm only "sitting on (my) butt complaining" and "just complaining" and you ask why we don't think of ways to sell our stuff outside the dealer hall...and then you tell me that it's a good thing that we're trying to do exactly what you just said we weren't?

You know what? I do sell stuff. I have a shop online. I'm probably not the only one either, out of the other prospective applicants. I don't really have any way of knowing, and neither do you. Online shops, "brick-and-mortar" shops, etc. You're making quite an assumption and frankly it doesn't reflect well of you.

Again you cite what YOU would do, yet again I repeat that not everyone is you.

What, exactly, would you advise we do then, if not complain? Your initial statement that we were ONLY complaining has been proven wrong (in the same post that you accused us of only complaining no less!), so what would you suggest we do? We're trying to forge ahead. But we also want answers. Real answers, not this hogwash about the parking garage being too hot, or why we were promised the chance to apply only to have all vendors selected outside the potential applicant group without a single application being seen by any of us.

[nikkiolie]

So wait, you tell me that I'm only "sitting on (my) butt complaining" and "just complaining" and you ask why we don't think of ways to sell our stuff outside the dealer hall...and then you tell me that it's a good thing that we're trying to do exactly what you just said we weren't?

You know what? I do sell stuff. I have a shop online. I'm probably not the only one either, out of the other prospective applicants. I don't really have any way of knowing, and neither do you. Online shops, "brick-and-mortar" shops, etc. You're making quite an assumption and frankly it doesn't reflect well of you.

Again you cite what YOU would do, yet again I repeat that not everyone is you.

What, exactly, would you advise we do then, if not complain? Your initial statement that we were ONLY complaining has been proven wrong (in the same post that you accused us of only complaining no less!), so what would you suggest we do? We're trying to forge ahead. But we also want answers. Real answers, not this hogwash about the parking garage being too hot, or why we were promised the chance to apply only to have all vendors selected outside the potential applicant group without a single application being seen by any of us.

I started writing my post and posted it to find out that two new replies have been made so I added more. I'm done arguing, I have made my point and you have made yours so we both need to stop.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

All right, all right. Just, you can see that this is a very touchy issue for me right now, and seeing "you're just sitting on your butts complaining" set me off. I do want to hear what you and anyone else has to say in the thread for the alternate dealer hall, though, since I want to have things planned enough to at least advertise at Kcon.

[nikkiolie]

Yeah and I saw that you did come up with an idea, however I didn't see when you started that a few days ago. I have a problem with people who complain and do nothing. So I am very glad you are doing something and it will give lots of people (even people who would never think of buying a booth at the dealers hall) a chance to sell some stuff. I have never really been one to complain about how something is run, or at least I try not to. Yeah I know it is something I would do but that being said I have always been told I am too optimistic and naive so....

I am more than willing to help you out with your thing. I think it is a FANTASTIC idea and we should do it like twice a year.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

But then I'm confused. What would give you the impression that people were only complaining and doing nothing else? Even without the other thread, you simply have no way of knowing what's going on behind the scenes, how many emails people are writing, what PMs are being sent, how many are making plans to go to the meeting next weekend, and so on.

[Taikei]

But then I'm confused. What would give you the impression that people were only complaining and doing nothing else? Even without the other thread, you simply have no way of knowing what's going on behind the scenes, how many emails people are writing, what PMs are being sent, how many are making plans to go to the meeting next weekend, and so on.

You sir, are trying to provoke another argument that does not need to be provoked. Kindly refrain from doing so.

[@random]

One of the most important parts of the code of conduct is that we can discuss even heated topics, but only as long as we refrain from making speculations about each other's motives or meanings.

Asking questions is one thing. Jabbing at each other and making insinuations is something else entirely, and we don't need another page full of it. I'm not speaking as moderator or as staff here, and I'd rather not do so... just as someone who would like to see this reach a better ending than it's heading toward.

[superjaz]

I am happy we have a dealers hall, 20 vendors is still a lot to me.
I am glad that we also have a space that the vendors we have can be comfortable, a dealer friend of mine still remember the Vancouver Hilton garage as a terrible experience, very hot and muggy.  

There is also artist ally.

I always get lots of complements on jewelry and things I buy in artist ally.  When I tell people where I bought it they say they never got a chance to make it to that end of the hall.  So if anything I hope this gives people a chance to make it to the AA end of things and check out some of the one-of-a-kind and usually very reasonably priced items, that they might have missed otherwise.

[Saki-the-cat]

I am happy we have a dealers hall, 20 vendors is still a lot to me.
I am glad that we also have a space that the vendors we have can be comfortable, a dealer friend of mine still remember the Vancouver Hilton garage as a terrible experience, very hot and muggy.  

There is also artist ally.

I always get lots of complements on jewelry and things I buy in artist ally.  When I tell people where I bought it they say they never got a chance to make it to that end of the hall.  So if anything I hope this gives people a chance to make it to the AA end of things and check out some of the one-of-a-kind and usually very reasonably priced items, that they might have missed otherwise.

Same here. To be honest, i expected something like this to happen. I remember in 2009 there were a lot of problems sense that was the first time Kumoricon was at the hotel, but they ended up fixing most of it by the next year. Hopefully next year they'll sort out all of these problems sooner and get everything on the right track.

[Shadow]

So if anything I hope this gives people a chance to make it to the AA end of things and check out some of the one-of-a-kind and usually very reasonably priced items, that they might have missed otherwise.

^ I couldn't agree more.

I prefer the AA over the Dealer's Hall in general. I'm also hoping this will bring more business and foot traffic for them.

Not having the Hall in the Hilton's parking garage was a wise idea, and a decision that was made via learning from their mistakes in '07. I remember it clearly: it was hot, muggy, and overall uncomfortable in there. I almost passed out more than once. I couldn't imagine what it was like for the vendors who were stuck down there.

Kudos to the staff for learning from past mistakes.

Do we know where exactly at the Red Lion the Dealer's Hall will be located? Hopefully not in the same space where MEWcon had it when they were at that hotel.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

I wasn't speculating nor trying to start any arguments. I was asking how such an assumption would be made. Nothing more.

Anyway, I can't be the only one who recalls the parking garage as being very cool inside, can I? As I said, I was wearing a heavy trenchcoat and going in the parking garage was an incredible relief. Was it just comparatively speaking then?

Look, I don't want to take away from the AA. But as a vendor I wouldn't want to take away from them either. I view them as really two different things that you go to for different items. AA doesn't sell the stuff that Vendor Hall does, Vendor Hall doesn't sell the stuff that AA does. And when you're looking for one, it doesn't reflect at all on the other to be unable to find it.

[ObiJay]

Well this is still going, and as I said in the other thread, the only part that bugged me was I discovered our group, Blackjack there who I've been tabled near at a couple other cons, and others didn't make it and were offhand informed and we have had no communication since June. My anger has passed, and maybe our little upstart Steampunk biz will try again next year. What I initially took as a slight I now take as "Fine, we up our game and our merchandise quality, make a vendor coordinator want us."

On a side note though, that parking garage was hell mixed with a sauna. It was muggy, it smelled, and I remember any vendor that took credit cards grumbled because they had to wander around, find a signal on their cell to complete the transaction. Definitely not something I would want to deal with, especially when my poor little Droid R2-D2 just refuses to find a signal anywhere.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

While this can certainly be an opportunity to improve, I do question how that would impact anything when they seemed to not even notice us.

Huh, that's odd.

And I'm contacting a guy about how to go about renting a place for the bazaar event. He's the head of the local Pokémon card league, and they have tournaments at the sorts of places we're looking fo, so hopefully we can find out some stuff about the legal and contractural side of event rental.

[nerdtastic]

I was trying to find out where my original post went, and see that they threw it into this thread.

I also figured there would be a backlash against the backlash today, and sure enough there was.

I'm just disappointed, period, that there are only 20 dealers. My original point still stands.

I'm still coming to the con, obviously, I paid my money-I'm just bummed.

HOWEVER, when people say "Oh ho hum, get over it", well, no, sorry. I'm disappointed. I bought something, I was disappointed with news about it. That's all. I really didn't get out of line, etc, etc, IMO.

I'm still bummed, but it doesn't sound like the staff or the higher ups are going to try to change anything, or even say "Yeah, this does stink, we'll look into trying to add more space" or something...because they aren't. Still bums me out.

[BigGuy]

The last time we were in the Vancouver Hilton and had the Dealers hall in the Parking Garage vendors and attendees thrashed us for months about the hot, muggy uncomfortable conditions down there. Vendors refused to ever come to Kumoricon again in we ever had it there again. Some people handle heat well, most did not that year.
 We on staff know that Dealers was not handled well this year.
 I'm sorry for that.  
 It won't help any hurt feelings this year, but next year we will have the legal matters, location issues and procedure for selecting vendors refined. So next year will be smoother.
 

[Witchaven]

There is one thing I have to suggest to help make sure something like this doesn't happen next year.
Please, have Dealer Contracts available for next years Convention at the Con this year. That way any Vendor attending (even those who are just attendees like many who are involved in this thread) have a chance at getting the Contract and signing up for next years event.
If it's not possible to get the full Contract for whatever reason, at least get an official signup where anyone interested in being a vendor next year can at least get a spot reserved. Have a specific time to get the contract or signup, simular to how Sakura-Con has done it in the past (just please do it all with a reciept book and preprinted contracts, not by trying to input them all in computer like Sakura-Con has tried the last 2 years.)
This makes it a lot easier for planning the Vendor Space, makes communication with the Vendors easier and would help to heal the rift that has developed between some of the dealers who were not able to get a spot this year.

[nikkiolie]

I'm still bummed, but it doesn't sound like the staff or the higher ups are going to try to change anything, or even say "Yeah, this does stink, we'll look into trying to add more space" or something...because they aren't. Still bums me out.

There is nothing the staff can really do a month before the con. You say they should add more space but lets say they have a room that is 100 sq ft and the dealers are taking up 75 sq ft, they need to have room to walk around so there really isn't much room left to add anyone else.

They had room for 38 tables, between the 20 dealers it sounds like those 38 tables are taken up. So they simply can't just "add more space" because there is no space to add. At this point there is nothing that can be done for the con, that is what I meant when I said get over it. Not don't be upset about the way that people were treated, but get over trying to get more venders in the DH because it simply wont happen. And if somehow there are other vendors it probably will have nothing to do with the con and they will be on their own and not located in the DH. By all means be disappointed, but don't let it ruin your con experience.

[EveofAbyss]

By all means be disappointed, but don't let it ruin your con experience.

This should be put on a streaming banner at the top of this thread. Really, the best advice that can be given or received on this matter. What's done is done for this year, and while things can be changed for next year, don't let this one aspect ruin your weekend. Con is too precious to waste on such avoidable negativity.

[nerdtastic]

It won't ruin my experience, thanks for telling me what to do, ahha. Seriously though, I'm an adult.  Telling people how to think doesn't usually add up.

Also, I didn't know there would be only 20 dealers until last night when they announced the dealer's list (or that's at least when I saw it first) so it wasn't just about them fixing it NOW, it could have been fixed months ago (although they choose not to use another panel room or whatnot). So I appreciate posts like Bigguy's.

Also, I went to Sakuracon this year for the first time. The dealer's hall there was, well, amazing. It's just going to seem like such a downgrade this year, even from the previous Kumoricon's I've gone to (Just the past two years).  People will always complain about something, sure, I understand...now I get to (and I do think within reason!)

[BlackjackGabbiani]

It won't help any hurt feelings this year, but next year we will have the legal matters, location issues and procedure for selecting vendors refined. So next year will be smoother.

We were told that about THIS year several months ago.

Can we at least hear what the legal matter WAS and what was holding up the lawyer for half a year?

Also, what else is going on in the Red Lion? We've asked that too and again haven't gotten an answer. With the big building near the parking lot, the room by the hotel entrance, and the conference rooms, there should be plenty of room for far more vendors. If there's something else going on in there, fine, but for all the times it's been asked, that's been met with silence. IS there anything else in there, and if so, why is such a simple question going unanswered?

Teresa told me to contact the head of Relations. I did, several days ago, and have gotten no reply. Many people have complained about the lack of communication and that's a problem that goes far beyond the vendor hall debacle.

[Bresslol]

AFAIK, The Red Lion is having, CCG, LARP/RPG, Artist Alley and Dealer's Hall over there. Are you asking that we take out features other congoers look forward to so we can have a few more dealers? If so, that's a ridiculous and unreasonable request.

What's done is done. We're under a month away from con. I'm sorry, but that's how it is.

If you would like to submit ideas or help what you think is an obvious concern, you're welcome to share that. Those ideas would have to help us out for the 2012 convention year. If you're as passionate about it as you have been, maybe join dealer's hall staff for the 2012 year. Your feedback and work as a staffer could go a long way to fix this.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

I never for a moment said that. What I said is that we were NOT TOLD what, if ANYTHING, the Red Lion was hosting other than the dealer room. That is ALL. I even said "if there's something else, fine". The issue is NOT that anything else is there. It was that, when the question of what else was there was asked, there was no answer given, and I would like to know why such a simple answer was never given.

Yes, I intend to join staff. Yes, I know that this will have no bearing on THIS year. The issue is that we are furious and need to be heard so that this does NOT EVER happen again. This is beyond the pale, frankly, and I would not be surprised if many people did not ever return to this convention. And really, it would be entirely understandable.

[Shadow]

What's done is done. We're under a month away from con. I'm sorry, but that's how it is.

</thread>

[Jamiche]

I never for a moment said that. What I said is that we were NOT TOLD what, if ANYTHING, the Red Lion was hosting other than the dealer room. That is ALL. I even said "if there's something else, fine". The issue is NOT that anything else is there. It was that, when the question of what else was there was asked, there was no answer given, and I would like to know why such a simple answer was never given.

Specifics on what was going in the Red Lion was not released prior to now is because the schedule had not been finalized... it has now.  All this information will be up around mid-August so people know where to find their favorite events.

Things are not announced until they are final... this is how we have always done it.  As I recall, the question did come up at general meetings and I gave a rough answer as to what was going where... so in fact the question has been answered before.  Perhaps not in enough detail, or widely enough to satisfy everyone, but it was answered.

The arguing about this is not getting anyone anywhere.  Yes, people are unhappy with the situation... there usually is someone unhappy every year, it's a result of having to compromise.  Can we do anything about it this year?  No, probably not.  Will we do something about it next year?  Yes, we will do our best.

But for now, let's end the argument and just concentrate on this convention.  We have less than a month, and still have a lot of work to do.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

I see no arguing. I see wants to know why this happened, and why we were denied the chance we were promised.

I'm not sure why a single thread poses such a distraction to people, what with the claims that this is breaking concentration and so on.

Well, if anyone wants to join me and already a few others in doing something about this, go to the link in my signature for planning a seperate event (not during con dates but at another time) for our own dealer hall. I do want to get plans solidified enough by Kcon so that we can advertise it during then, so please join in, especially if you have suggestions for places (there's already two lists of what we're looking for in a location).

[Koryu]

Hello everyone.

I'd like to take a moment to re-iterate some things stated by my Guest Manager, earlier in the thread, and answer a few more questions, which will hopefully help clarify this situation and give everyone the closure they are looking for here. There were clearly mistakes, and no one is denying that, and myself as Director keeping silent any longer will only continue the problem, so let me begin by saying, simply, I am sorry for any stress or confusion caused this year by the Exhibitors hall. As you may or may not know this is my first year as a Director and I had some pretty big shoes to fill from our now current Vice Chair. She created a good thing in the Portland Downtown Hilton Dealers, and re-creating that in Vancouver was always going to be a challenge. In 2007, the space we used caused such problems that several exhibitors had told us, in writing and verbally, that they would NEVER return to that venue. Exhibitors that we respect and value highly told us on no uncertain terms that the conditions were simply unbearable for the long hours that the hall was open and that they would leave our convention if we used it again. Other alternatives hurt programming in inacceptable ways and they best option, as I and my Department (as well as my fellow Directors) saw it, was to put the Exhibitors hall in the comfortable, albeit smaller (much smaller) location of the Centennial Center at the Red Lion Hotel at the Quay.

We never deceived anyone that this year would be a severely smaller Exhibitors hall, and that we wouldn’t  be looking for anything but high quality, consistent, and reliable vendors whom we could assure to our attendees that they would provide the best goods possible. This principle was in most of the e-mails we send out, in my statementsa general meetings and was verbally re-iterated to any vendors I or other directors spoke to. I know that around 20 total vendors was quite a shock to many, but believe me, it has been even harder for my department. We want the best of all worlds; an amazing con, great exhibitors and the most diverse goods for our attendees. At the end of the day, we had to work with the space we were given. This was stressful, but we knew going in it would be small, because I simply didn't have the tools to make it any larger.

Perhaps, in the future we can find an alternate solution, but this was the best option I saw, and I made that executive decision. But believe me when I say that I did try to do the best with what we had.

Regarding the process by which exhibitors are chosen, I feel as though some misinformation is being perpetrated here and I want to set the record straight.  This is so that in the future, everyone will know how this system works and wont feel left in the dark.

As stated on the Exhibitors page of the website in June;

"If you are interested in participating in the Exhibitors Hall, we are accepting your company's information at this time. All exhibitors are required to have a Washington state UBI number or Reseller Permit in compliance with all state and federal laws. We appreciate your interest and the products that you may be offering. Please send all information to exhibitors@kumoricon.org where it will be forwarded to the proper channels. Thank you."

Anyone who sent all information requested to that e-mail address were added to a list and was considered "Applied". When new information was available, e-mails were sent out to inquiries about the status of the selection process. Obviously e-mails can fall through the cracks, with the hundreds of e-mails I and my Exhibitors Hall Manager have gotten in the recent months, there is always the chance that some people just were not responded to in a timely manner, or even at all. It happens and is unfortunate and I do apologize for any stress that caused.

Specifically, to Blackjack, I would remind you that back in June my exhibitors hall manager was very clear with you on the requirements for being a vendor.  She answered your questions and did on several occasions respond to you, with the very clear line that at the time, the hall was full, but if booths were relinquished, we would contact our applied vendors immediately to fill these vacancies. We were very careful to never implicitly promise anyone a booth.  There were two few booths for me to make such dangerous statements. If we didn't have the space for you, we told you it was full and apologized. The truth is that we have had to replace some dealers who, for what ever reason, could know longer come, so saying that we would contact people if booths became available, was a real situation we were under. I apologize that, of the copious amount of e-mails you have sent us over the course of this year, only half or so of them got this response, but we honestly didn't know how much more we needed to explain the situation to you, and doing so continuously crippled our department and left less time for us to respond to other people who deserved just as much attention. For most people, one or two e-mails on the subject sufficed, we are sorry that this did not solve your problems, but we couldn't do much more than what we have already done.

Clearly, the issue here is that, the lack of space, and large volume of communications we received bogged down the system, and our small supply of staff and time couldn't handle the weight of it to some people's satisfaction. I wish I could make everyone happy, but I knew going into this year, that it was going to be rocky. I want you to know that we are listening, we are sorry, and we are working on concepts that may alleviate the problems for next year. We have lived, we have learned and we have your feed back as attendees and exhibitors and potential exhibitors. That is the most valuable thing we can have looking to the future, so I tell you honestly: Thank you. For now, I simply ask that we accept that this year cannot be changed, we cannot add more space and we cannot move to a location already assigned to another part of programming. I hope we won’t let some miss-communication and human error make the con unpleasant before its has even started.

I am confident that, in the end, we will all have a good time.  I am personally looking forward to the Exhibitors Hall and Artists Alley we have and am sure it will work out well for everyone attending.

If you have any other questions regarding the selection process, the way to submit your information for the future, or just questions about my department, please feel free to ask me.  I am available via e-mail, pm or whatever your preferred method may be. I want to help everyone enjoy the convention from my department's end so don't hesitate to ask.

Thank you very much for your time and patience,

Sarah Paige
Director of Relations
Kumoricon 2011

[BlackjackGabbiani]

See, I'm confused now. You considered that applying? Because every other con I've "applied" to has involved an actual application form that we physically filled out and mailed in, not simply an outline of our shops. It was never made clear that that was considered the application, which is why we've stated that no such thing was ever made available to us. I have a feeling that other applicants, working at some of the same conventions I did (one even cited me as being nearby at M.E.W.con), were expecting the same application process.

By stating that we were never given the chance to apply, I never viewed that as misinformation, because we were not made aware that that WAS the application.

As for being told that it was full...do you mean the post on the site when the vendor list went up? Because honestly, that was a pretty heartless way to do things. It came across as dismissive and cold, as if we were a mere afterthought.

I don't think anybody in this thread is trying to change anything for this year. We understand that. What we don't understand is what led up to this reductive decision, and why it was implemented so poorly.

[nerdtastic]

AFAIK, The Red Lion is having, CCG, LARP/RPG, Artist Alley and Dealer's Hall over there. Are you asking that we take out features other congoers look forward to so we can have a few more dealers? If so, that's a ridiculous and unreasonable request.

What's done is done. We're under a month away from con. I'm sorry, but that's how it is.

If you would like to submit ideas or help what you think is an obvious concern, you're welcome to share that. Those ideas would have to help us out for the 2012 convention year. If you're as passionate about it as you have been, maybe join dealer's hall staff for the 2012 year. Your feedback and work as a staffer could go a long way to fix this.

It's holier than thou arguments like this that make me just roll my eyes. YES, I would be asking for there to be more space for dealers...and I don't really care what gets taken out BECAUSE IT IS MY FAVORITE PART. Well, maybe not the bathrooms, haha.

I like how you say "What's done is done." Cliche, cliche. Is that like "It is what it is?" You say you're sorry, but that's how it is...and then you suggest joining the dealer's hall staff and that feedback and work could go a long way to fix this? HAHA. What about "What's done is done"?!

Anyway, Ms. Paige's post is about the best I can ask for. Disappointed, but I'm glad the upper staff answered this question.

I'm moving on. Now, I got to try to convince my small group of anime friends to reconsider and go with me anyway.

[RadicalSpaghettiMonster]

See, I'm confused now. You considered that applying? Because every other con I've "applied" to has involved an actual application form that we physically filled out and mailed in, not simply an outline of our shops. It was never made clear that that was considered the application, which is why we've stated that no such thing was ever made available to us. I have a feeling that other applicants, working at some of the same conventions I did (one even cited me as being nearby at M.E.W.con), were expecting the same application process.

This isn't other conventions, this is Kumoricon. Kumoricon does things how Kumoricon does things. Just because Kumoricon does something differently from another convention, whether it be deemed as better or worse, it does not mean they have to conform to the ways of other conventions. However, I personally think there should be a form for this kind of thing to help eliminate confusion on all levels. I'm surprised there isn't one already.

As stated on the Exhibitors page of the website in June;

"If you are interested in participating in the Exhibitors Hall, we are accepting your company's information at this time. All exhibitors are required to have a Washington state UBI number or Reseller Permit in compliance with all state and federal laws. We appreciate your interest and the products that you may be offering. Please send all information to exhibitors@kumoricon.org where it will be forwarded to the proper channels. Thank you."

Anyone who sent all information requested to that e-mail address were added to a list and was considered "Applied".

What exactly is this "all information requested" you speak of? I see nothing saying what should be sent in except possibly the Washington State UBI number or Reseller Permit. Unless there is another place that listed the needed information, the request is rather vague.

It's holier than thou arguments like this that make me just roll my eyes. YES, I would be asking for there to be more space for dealers...and I don't really care what gets taken out BECAUSE IT IS MY FAVORITE PART.

Your argument seems much worse.

[meep]

I'm not really upset about the small number of vendors this year. Although I'm worried about the selection of goods, I know that the staff have carefully picked out some quality vendors. I'm also glad that certain vendors didn't make it on the list because honestly they were a waste of space.

Just because there is a small number doesn't mean your not gonna find good deals and items at the hall. Wait to complain till after the con is over you guys, you cannot change anything a month before it happens.

[Koryu]

Blackjack-

To my knowledge, paper or digital “application forms” have not been the procedure for soliciting exhibitors by Kumoricon in the past. I am sorry if this was not clear from the statement posted to the exhibitor page on the website. But how to apply was stated there and many other dealers were able to easily perform this action and the process was not thought odd. For those who had difficulty with it, I can only send my sympathies for it not being clear enough and we will strive to outline that better in the future. But we are not other conventions, and I don’t see a reason to change what has worked for us in the past just to fit other formats.

In regards to explaining to you and other exhibitors who may have inquired about the hall being full, I am referring to the numerous e-mails sent to you, via my exhibitors hall manager, which explicitly stated to you that we were full. These e-mails were to serve as your notification of the status of the exhibitors hall personally, and as well as any updates that were available.

Thank you for your questions,

Sarah Paige
Director of Relations
Kumoricon 2011

[nikkiolie]

It's holier than thou arguments like this that make me just roll my eyes. YES, I would be asking for there to be more space for dealers...and I don't really care what gets taken out BECAUSE IT IS MY FAVORITE PART.

Your argument seems much worse.

Thank you. I didn't want to say anything but that point seemed really self centered and childish. Nerdtastic just becuase you like the dealers hall doesn't mean others do and other may want more panels than dealers. This is the best median that Staff could find. Yes Sakuracon has a huge and very nice dealers hall but Sakuracon also has 20000 people with a 7 story convention center. Kumoricon has about 5000 or so with two Hotels. The smaller conventions get the smaller the dealers hall gets. If you go to mewcon you would see there is only 10 or so dealers (if not less). To compair Kumoricon to sakuracon is not fair.

[DancingTofu]

To compair Kumoricon to sakuracon is not fair.

Quoted for truthiness.

A lot of people make the mistake of expecting Kumoricon to be more like Sakuracon.  Kumoricon doesn't exist to be a second Sakuracon; it exists to be its own event with its own priorities and significance.  I enjoy a lot of things about Sakuracon that don't exist at Kumoricon, like the arcade for example.  Kumoricon's its own con that stands on its own choices though.  You want a huge dealer's hall and not much else?  Check out Akicon.  Very large dealer's hall for such a young convention.  It also has a pretty decent arcade.  Kumoricon has its own merits though, so don't expect it to be Sakuracon v2.0

[Griff_the_dragoon]

To compair Kumoricon to sakuracon is not fair.

Quoted for truthiness.

A lot of people make the mistake of expecting Kumoricon to be more like Sakuracon.  Kumoricon doesn't exist to be a second Sakuracon; it exists to be its own event with its own priorities and significance.  I enjoy a lot of things about Sakuracon that don't exist at Kumoricon, like the arcade for example.  Kumoricon's its own con that stands on its own choices though.  You want a huge dealer's hall and not much else?  Check out Akicon.  Very large dealer's hall for such a young convention.  It also has a pretty decent arcade.  Kumoricon has its own merits though, so don't expect it to be Sakuracon v2.0

Could not have said it better myself

[@random]

To compair Kumoricon to sakuracon is not fair.

Quoted for truthiness.

A lot of people make the mistake of expecting Kumoricon to be more like Sakuracon.  Kumoricon doesn't exist to be a second Sakuracon; it exists to be its own event with its own priorities and significance.  I enjoy a lot of things about Sakuracon that don't exist at Kumoricon, like the arcade for example.  Kumoricon's its own con that stands on its own choices though.  You want a huge dealer's hall and not much else?  Check out Akicon.  Very large dealer's hall for such a young convention.  It also has a pretty decent arcade.  Kumoricon has its own merits though, so don't expect it to be Sakuracon v2.0

I like Sakuracon, and worked with them last year. They're a good con with a great purpose, and they do the community a lot of good in terms of how we're seen. But my true love is Kumoricon. YMMV, but the biggest difference is that Kumoricon is first and foremost by the fans, for the fans.

Sakuracon is as well, but in order to appeal to the widest possible audience, they have to limit programming and the unspoken rules to stay not just more family-friendly... but also more average-American-friendly. This lets them pull in the larger crowds that let them get the WSTCC while we're still in hotels. It lets them pull in sponsorships. And the lack of these factors, above all else, is why dealer space is limited.

It's kinda like the difference between sub and dub, in some ways... sub may be more true to the original language and culture, and may appeal to the "true fans" (or at least we like to think we are)... but how long did it take before they considered playing a subbed anime in any American theatre, let alone as a major release? In the same way, I hope one of these days Kumoricon can make it to the Portland convention center... but it'll take a while, unless we're willing to become much more like our onee-san Sakura than we are right now.

If someone who's more familiar with both Sakura and Kumori than I am thinks it's more about some other factor, please correct me on it. But I think this is most of the reason for the difference in dealer halls.

[Taikei]

BlackJack- I am sorry to say, but these staff members have done nothing but answer your questions, and you can't seem to accept what they are telling you. I cannot be sure of everything that has gone on, as I am not a dealer but an average con-goer. What you seem to be upset about is the lack of communication between staff and yourself, but the Director of relations has pointed out that they have responded to several of their emails. All of these staff members have been very respectful and are all trying to tell you the same things.

They apologized for how things have turned out this year, and they are going to try and remedy the situation next year to the best of their abilities. Constructive criticism is good, heatedly ranting and raving is not. I fear I am getting away from the point here.

General Statement for Everyone- Everyone is just going to have to accept that there are in fact only going to be twenty dealers, and make the best of it. I am a little sad, but I understand the need to do this with the limited space we are given. Kumoricon cannot hope to change things this late in the game without the possibility of a calamity occurring. Things just have to stay as they are, and /constructive criticism/ helps much more than anything else. I have seen some of it in this thread..but a more positive outlook in this thread would be a pleasant thing. I am worried that if we keep going as we are, some day the staff will give up trying to please us by responding on these threads. We all need to be respectful, especially when requesting something from other people, regardless of who they are or what they represent.

I personally am glad that the vendors wont be in a parking garage, it was so hot in there that I couldn't breathe due to temperature related asthma (if the air is too warm, for some reason it sets off an attack) and thus could not shop comfortably or even hope to see all of the tables. It will be good both for the vendors and con-goers to have the Dealer's Hall in the Red lion, this way both hotels get traffic, and there is less crowding in the Hilton. There are many many positive aspects of this change, but a lot of people are only looking at the negative.

Lastly I apologize for any typos or poor punctuation, as I am on my cellular device as I type this.

[ObiJay]

As one of the unfortunates that did not make the cut, I'm satisfied with the answers the staff have given. I can definitely understand needing to satisfy the big time, dependable vendor over someone with little more than an etsy site. Guarunteed continual cash is needed a money sink like a con. I have also seen apologies for how things got handled. I'm glad you took the time to reply when you easily could have had a mod nuke the thread from orbit.

[nerdtastic]

It's holier than thou arguments like this that make me just roll my eyes. YES, I would be asking for there to be more space for dealers...and I don't really care what gets taken out BECAUSE IT IS MY FAVORITE PART.

Your argument seems much worse.

Thank you. I didn't want to say anything but that point seemed really self centered and childish. Nerdtastic just becuase you like the dealers hall doesn't mean others do and other may want more panels than dealers. This is the best median that Staff could find. Yes Sakuracon has a huge and very nice dealers hall but Sakuracon also has 20000 people with a 7 story convention center. Kumoricon has about 5000 or so with two Hotels. The smaller conventions get the smaller the dealers hall gets. If you go to mewcon you would see there is only 10 or so dealers (if not less). To compair Kumoricon to sakuracon is not fair.

Sigh. Then compare Kumoricon to Kumoricon last year. Giant difference regardless.

[superjaz]

Sigh. Then compare Kumoricon to Kumoricon last year. Giant difference regardless.

I am sorry but you can't compare last years event to this years event that hasn't happened yet.
Dealers hall is a lot of people's favorite place during con yes, but if you tell yourself now you are not going to like it and not going to have fun at con because of it, you are not going to have fun at con no matter what.

[EveofAbyss]

It's holier than thou arguments like this that make me just roll my eyes. YES, I would be asking for there to be more space for dealers...and I don't really care what gets taken out BECAUSE IT IS MY FAVORITE PART.

Your argument seems much worse.

Thank you. I didn't want to say anything but that point seemed really self centered and childish. Nerdtastic just becuase you like the dealers hall doesn't mean others do and other may want more panels than dealers. This is the best median that Staff could find. Yes Sakuracon has a huge and very nice dealers hall but Sakuracon also has 20000 people with a 7 story convention center. Kumoricon has about 5000 or so with two Hotels. The smaller conventions get the smaller the dealers hall gets. If you go to mewcon you would see there is only 10 or so dealers (if not less). To compair Kumoricon to sakuracon is not fair.

Sigh. Then compare Kumoricon to Kumoricon last year. Giant difference regardless.

It is not realistic to compare a completed event to an uncompleted one. Last year's Kumoricon has happened and you have the full experience to go off of. This year's Kumoricon has not happened in any way, shape, or form yet, so to compare it to last year's based simply off of this one bit of DH-related news, is unfair and inaccurate.

I'm just going to basically keep reiterating what others have already stated. Do you think this change is worth ruining your weekend? Con is going to happen as things currently stand. Changes will be made for the future, but you are going to just have to accept that this year is essentially locked in and make the best of it. Like Jaz said, if you go into the weekend all knotted up with pre-established dissatisfaction, you're just going to have a crappy con. You get what you give. Let the DH keep you perturbed and you won't be able to enjoy anything at Kumo this year. Make your peace with it, though, and you will still be able to appreciate the other services and events that Kumoricon offers. It's on you, nerdtastic (and any others in similar situations). Yes, this is disappointing, but to not move on is to ruin your own weekend by your own choice. Moving on is always an option, but you have to decide to do so. Stewing in disappointment is something we call could do, but what would that accomplish? Where would anything be if all we ever did was steep in how unhappy things made us?

Move on and salvage what there is to salvage. DH≠Kumoricon, at least it doesn't have to be.

[@random]

Where would anything be if all we ever did was steep in how unhappy things made us?

A Green Day concert?

_{(Sorry, couldn't resist. And for the record, I love some of their songs.)}

[nerdtastic]

It's holier than thou arguments like this that make me just roll my eyes. YES, I would be asking for there to be more space for dealers...and I don't really care what gets taken out BECAUSE IT IS MY FAVORITE PART.

Your argument seems much worse.

Thank you. I didn't want to say anything but that point seemed really self centered and childish. Nerdtastic just becuase you like the dealers hall doesn't mean others do and other may want more panels than dealers. This is the best median that Staff could find. Yes Sakuracon has a huge and very nice dealers hall but Sakuracon also has 20000 people with a 7 story convention center. Kumoricon has about 5000 or so with two Hotels. The smaller conventions get the smaller the dealers hall gets. If you go to mewcon you would see there is only 10 or so dealers (if not less). To compair Kumoricon to sakuracon is not fair.

Sigh. Then compare Kumoricon to Kumoricon last year. Giant difference regardless.

It is not realistic to compare a completed event to an uncompleted one. Last year's Kumoricon has happened and you have the full experience to go off of. This year's Kumoricon has not happened in any way, shape, or form yet, so to compare it to last year's based simply off of this one bit of DH-related news, is unfair and inaccurate.

I'm just going to basically keep reiterating what others have already stated. Do you think this change is worth ruining your weekend? Con is going to happen as things currently stand. Changes will be made for the future, but you are going to just have to accept that this year is essentially locked in and make the best of it. Like Jaz said, if you go into the weekend all knotted up with pre-established dissatisfaction, you're just going to have a crappy con. You get what you give. Let the DH keep you perturbed and you won't be able to enjoy anything at Kumo this year. Make your peace with it, though, and you will still be able to appreciate the other services and events that Kumoricon offers. It's on you, nerdtastic (and any others in similar situations). Yes, this is disappointing, but to not move on is to ruin your own weekend by your own choice. Moving on is always an option, but you have to decide to do so. Stewing in disappointment is something we call could do, but what would that accomplish? Where would anything be if all we ever did was steep in how unhappy things made us?

Move on and salvage what there is to salvage. DH≠Kumoricon, at least it doesn't have to be.

Never said it was ruining my weekend. Said I was disappointed, etc, etc. You counseling me on how to think just isn't going to work-People are going to think what they are going to think, PERIOD.

Yeah, I believe it's fair to compare something I did last year with the event that's going to happen this year.

I wanted to move on, just had to deal with a few people telling me how to think some more.

Yes, it's on me how to think. I think I dislike the giant change, but I'm still going.

[Saki-the-cat]

I, personally, don't care how people think. It's just that complaining about it a lot on a forum isn't going to help any situation in any way.

[nikkiolie]

A lot of what people have been stating are facts not telling other how to think.
Fact: there is going to be 20 dealers
Fact: its less than a month till the con
Fact: staff can't do anything about it at this point
Fact: people can either dwell on it or move on
Fact: If people do dwell on the lact of dealers their con experience may not be as fun as those who moved passed it.
Fact: staff is going to do everything in their power to fix this next year


Also , you can compare an event that has already happened to one that has yet to happen and you may be disappointed. It is nearly impossible to make two events identical to each other. Fact of the mater is we are in a much better hotel this year with a very nice park across the street and hotel staff that don't give us dirty looks and treat us like crap, that alone makes this year better than last. I don't care if we don't have a dealers hall at all at least we will be treated with respect. Here is an idea, and not telling you how to think but a mere suggestion, you could start looking at all the good things about the con rather than focusing on bad things that have happened so far, who knows maybe those bad things might not be as bad as you think.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

I am honestly puzzled by the number of people who think that simply because we're mad about this somehow means we won't enjoy the con. I HOPE to be able to continue to support Kumoricon, although this was a major smear on their reputation. But there's a pretty big leap between being mad about one thing and somehow taking everything else down with it.

Regarding how it isn't other cons and thus does things differently--you cannot possibly expect us to believe that it was self-explanitory that the summary was the application, with nothing calling it that prior to this thread. Sure, have a summary be an application, but at least CALL it that, or tie the thoughts together so you don't have people wondering where the applications are or why no form was ever posted. If you don't, don't call it "spreading misinformation" when people say they never got a chance to apply.

I'm also puzzled at the people who continue to remind us that we can't affect anything this year. I know we can't. I don't think anybody here thinks we can. We continue to speak so that we can dissect what went wrong so that this never happens again. If it upsets you, don't visit this thread. It should be fairly straightforward.

For those of you who DO say you want to do something, I've brought to attention a few times the link in my signature regarding planning an alternate event at some other time, and while people claim to support such a thing, there have been very few suggestions along the planning process. One only repeated notes I had given only a few comments before, as if they were new. It was very strange.

Anyway, I don't think this should be locked because this isn't over and it won't be over until the convention is. When we see things in practice, then I expect even more activity.

Also I feel I should note that M.E.W.con this past year had about 15 booths. They had 300 attendees. We have four and a half *thousand*.

[EveofAbyss]

Also I feel I should note that M.E.W.con this past year had about 15 booths. They had 300 attendees. We have four and a half *thousand*.

Kumoricon is most likely using the same space for the DH as M.E.W., so...that would explain why the number of booths are similar.

I get what you're getting at. In retrospect a different space could have been coordinated to better reflect the thousands of attendees, and I am sure this will be taken into consideration next year. This year though, even though we are talking about things now, we have to settle for what is established.

Join staff, BlackJack. You have such a clear idea of how you would like things like the Dealer Hall to run, I think not joining staff or volunteering would be doing yourself a major disservice (since this issue seems to be especially significant to you).

[BlackjackGabbiani]

I plan on it. A staffer said he'd nominate me.

But not everyone can join staff, no matter how many ideas they have. And that's why I think this thread is valuable.

[Bresslol]

But not everyone can join staff, no matter how many ideas they have. And that's why I think this thread is valuable.

I would like to clarify that the following is made by me as a staffer, and not a moderator:

[staffer, not mod]This is not coming as a mod, but as a person who has seen almost 1000 different people staff cons he's staffed in the past 8 years:

This is easily one of the most ludicrous things I have ever seen someone say on a forum ever. Anyone can staff. They just need the drive to make the convention a better place in an official capacity. You don't need someone to nominate you, you go to a general meeting and talk to a director. You email the con. There's a position for anybody who wants one.

I went from running DDR tournaments at Sakuracon to being at one point on the executive board, and am now still in a high position and in excellent standing with Sakuracon. My reputation there has helped Operations for Kumoricon for 2011, and I have assisted Ally with Facilities in 2010. Why? I'm motivated to make conventions better for everyone.

I appreciate the fact you are so passionate about the dealer's hall and wanting to make it better, that shows in leaps and bounds. But to say not anybody can staff is just flat out crazy talk. You'll also learn a much larger understanding for why cons do what they do sometimes. We're not in the business of pissing people off. We're not in the business of screwing dealers over. We are in the business of making a great con, and playing the hand that is dealt to us. Sometimes that means watering things down to keep some happy. Just remember you can please some of the people some of the time, but you cannot please all of the people all of the time.[/staffer, not mod]

[Tanuki19]

^ THIS.

It bothers me that people are bashing down on Kumoricon this year when IT HASN'T EVEN HAPPENED YET. Personally, if the dealer's hall isn't as big as it was last year, that doesn't ruin all future Kcons for me. THE DEALER'S HALL ISN'T WHAT MAKES THE CON, THE ATMOSPHERE IS. If you're only at the con to buy stuff, maybe you'd have better luck on eBay. And if people are going to ruin the atmosphere by complaining about things that are out of their control before the con even starts, then we have a problem.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

No, not anybody can staff. There are time constraints, distance (not everyone can, say, come up from Eugene or down from Seattle for meetings), transportation issues, and so on. Everyone may be ABLE to be a staffer in and of themselves, but there ARE different things to consider.

Plus don't you have to be over 18 to be a staffer anyway?

You guys know I'm not talking about being STAFF, as in the people who work at the convention itself. I mean the people who plan events, who make things happen, who set everything up, who sign contracts, etc.

[EveofAbyss]

You guys know I'm not talking about being STAFF, as in the people who work at the convention itself. I mean the people who plan events, who make things happen, who set everything up, who sign contracts, etc.

I'm no official voice, but I'm pretty sure all the staff do "con-work". No matter what function someone may serve as staff outside of the con, when Kumoricon rolls around it seems like all staff are convention staff (if that makes any sense).

[Bresslol]

No, not anybody can staff. There are time constraints, distance (not everyone can, say, come up from Eugene or down from Seattle for meetings), transportation issues, and so on. Everyone may be ABLE to be a staffer in and of themselves, but there ARE different things to consider.

I used to live in Seattle, and came down to as many meetings as I could. I now do the same for Sakura meetings, since I now live down here. That was the drive and motivation I was speaking about earlier.

Plus don't you have to be over 18 to be a staffer anyway?

You can be 16 with parental consent.

You guys know I'm not talking about being STAFF, as in the people who work at the convention itself. I mean the people who plan events, who make things happen, who set everything up, who sign contracts, etc.

That is staff. What in the world was your definition? Everyone who wears a staff badge is staff. That means people who work at the con, as well as the hard working coordinators, managers, and directors.

Please stop arguing this point. I've given you more than enough information, and you clearly don't know what staffers do at the convention.

[Neko_Chan]

I hardly ever step foot in the dealers room. I poke around, buy some magazines and leave. I don't buy a whole lot at Conventions, but its fun to see all the dealers and chat with them... However...
I'm really disgusted by the behavior on this forum.

I'm looking forward to seeing who Kumoricon chose and how the vendors like the space. I hope to see some things I want, hopefully the vendors will have up-to-date goods from Japan!
Staff works their butts off to ensure that everything goes smothly. Thank you to staff.

[PaperRoxas]

The fact of the matter is that it's simply shoddy business practices. We were promised a chance to get in. We were never given that chance.

Your promised chance was to apply...

[RadicalSpaghettiMonster]

I am honestly puzzled by the number of people who think that simply because we're mad about this somehow means we won't enjoy the con. I HOPE to be able to continue to support Kumoricon, although this was a major smear on their reputation. But there's a pretty big leap between being mad about one thing and somehow taking everything else down with it.

There have been many people, on the first page even, stating that they probably won't come back. I believe that is where this is coming from.

For those of you who DO say you want to do something, I've brought to attention a few times the link in my signature regarding planning an alternate event at some other time, and while people claim to support such a thing, there have been very few suggestions along the planning process. One only repeated notes I had given only a few comments before, as if they were new. It was very strange.

Even if the information was just restated from earlier in the thread, I thought that post was a great summary that clearly and concisely stated the concerns of holding your proposed event. It doesn't seem that strange to me.

Plus don't you have to be over 18 to be a staffer anyway?

People can begin staffing at age 16 now with parental consent. They are, of course, still required to follow the rules of those who are under 18 (such as curfew).

Staff works their butts off to ensure that everything goes smoothly. Thank you to staff.

Yes, thank you indeed for all your hard work. I hope you continue to provide us with an awesome convention. <3

[nerdtastic]

This thread is seriously starting to bum me out.

I voice a complaint, a logical one, and RAWRRRR I get people defending the con and attacking me like nobody's business.

I still had (and have) a valid complaint.

I hope the lines for the room aren't insanely long, due to the fact that the space is so small. Ugh.

[RadicalSpaghettiMonster]

I voice a complaint, a logical one, and RAWRRRR I get people defending the con and attacking me like nobody's business.

It's holier than thou arguments like this that make me just roll my eyes. YES, I would be asking for there to be more space for dealers...and I don't really care what gets taken out BECAUSE IT IS MY FAVORITE PART.

I do not see the logic.

[Saki-the-cat]

HEY, GUESS WHAT.


GET OVER IT.

[nerdtastic]

LOUD NOISES!

[nerdtastic]

I voice a complaint, a logical one, and RAWRRRR I get people defending the con and attacking me like nobody's business.

It's holier than thou arguments like this that make me just roll my eyes. YES, I would be asking for there to be more space for dealers...and I don't really care what gets taken out BECAUSE IT IS MY FAVORITE PART.

I do not see the logic.

k thx

[BlackjackGabbiani]

"Get over" what, exactly? The fact that we're frustrated and want to do something about it, as well as vent that frustration to the people who can make a difference?

Bresslol--I was thinking of people such as board members vs the people who do the running around work. I never said that that was any less important, it just doesn't require as much overall time during the entire year leading up to the con. Besides, YOU may be able to come down from Seattle for everything but not everyone can.

PaperRoxas--those are the same things. A chance to apply *is* a chance to get in.

[PaperRoxas]

HEY, GUESS WHAT.


GET OVER IT.

agreed~ I wandered in here to see what all the hubub was about

[xxxchihiroxxx]

I voice a complaint, a logical one, and RAWRRRR I get people defending the con and attacking me like nobody's business.

It's holier than thou arguments like this that make me just roll my eyes. YES, I would be asking for there to be more space for dealers...and I don't really care what gets taken out BECAUSE IT IS MY FAVORITE PART.

I do not see the logic.

I think the SpaghettiMonster makes a very good point here. I dont see your logic, a comment like that was asking to be argued. I'm sorry but your immaturity there astounds me.

Regardless, I find it a bit disappointing that the vendors hall is so small this year, and Im sure by the same circumstances the artist alley is rather small as well. But to be frank I dont mind, dealers halls are generally over priced, I can buy my manga or anime online or at powells and frys should I so choose to not shell out ridiculous amounts for them. I do hope though that the booths selling plushies, figurines, posters, and other such harder to come by in person merchandise, will be plentiful for the small space we have.

I hope we dont have such small spaces in the future, and my personal idea is I would rather the parking garage again over the venue we have now, but it's too late to change that. I also wasnt a vendor that year who had to deal with the heat, so I can see why they wouldnt want to go back to that, not to mention lack of cell reception. But all in all for the attendees I think the number of vendors was a poor thing to sacrifice instead of heat.

However were changing venues as always next year, at least I believe so. No reason to not come back to the con over this when the dealers hall wont be in the same place next year, and I have faith that the staff hears these crys and will take this issue into consideration next year when planning the vendors hall and picking a location for it.  

[nerdtastic]

I voice a complaint, a logical one, and RAWRRRR I get people defending the con and attacking me like nobody's business.

It's holier than thou arguments like this that make me just roll my eyes. YES, I would be asking for there to be more space for dealers...and I don't really care what gets taken out BECAUSE IT IS MY FAVORITE PART.

I do not see the logic.

I think the SpaghettiMonster makes a very good point here. I dont see your logic, a comment like that was asking to be argued. I'm sorry but your immaturity there astounds me.

Someone had asked if I seriously thought some other favorite parts should be taken out for more dealer space. Since I like the dealer area, I said yes, obviously. If someone's favorite part was learning to draw manga or Magic or a meet and greet with Todd and company, then yeah, they would like that section not to be cut in half this year, right? Does any immaturity on this forum really astound you? I mean it's the internet...

Regardless, I find it a bit disappointing that the vendors hall is so small this year, and Im sure by the same circumstances the artist alley is rather small as well. But to be frank I dont mind, dealers halls are generally over priced, I can buy my manga or anime online or at powells and frys should I so choose to not shell out ridiculous amounts for them. I do hope though that the booths selling plushies, figurines, posters, and other such harder to come by in person merchandise, will be plentiful for the small space we have.

True. Like I previously had mentioned, I am mostly looking for toys, blind box toys, etc, etc. Not a big fan of buying anime at cons, since yes, they are genuinely pretty spendy (and if they have sales tax on it...no thanks).

I hope we dont have such small spaces in the future, and my personal idea is I would rather the parking garage again over the venue we have now, but it's too late to change that. I also wasnt a vendor that year who had to deal with the heat, so I can see why they wouldnt want to go back to that, not to mention lack of cell reception. But all in all for the attendees I think the number of vendors was a poor thing to sacrifice instead of heat.

I don't recall reading if they are going to huge the inferno parking garage for anything else...and if so, why?

However were changing venues as always next year, at least I believe so. No reason to not come back to the con over this when the dealers hall wont be in the same place next year, and I have faith that the staff hears these crys and will take this issue into consideration next year when planning the vendors hall and picking a location for it.  

I don't know, but I didnt pre-reg for next year, I pre-reg'd for this year.

[nerdtastic]

HEY, GUESS WHAT.


GET OVER IT.

agreed~ I wandered in here to see what all the hubub was about

Oh, get over it, right, gotcha. I like how you have a link selling things in your signature. The joke just writes itself there.

[Saki-the-cat]

"Get over" what, exactly? The fact that we're frustrated and want to do something about it, as well as vent that frustration to the people who can make a difference?

They got that you and other people were frusterated a LONG time ago. Complaining about it now is just useless, and frankly, will just end up annoying people.

HEY, GUESS WHAT.


GET OVER IT.

agreed~ I wandered in here to see what all the hubub was about

Oh, get over it, right, gotcha. I like how you have a link selling things in your signature. The joke just writes itself there.

Now you're complaining about things in people's signatures? Real nice.

[Bresslol]

The flamewar stops, and the personal attacks stop, or I lock the thread down. Play nice kids.

[nerdtastic]

"Get over" what, exactly? The fact that we're frustrated and want to do something about it, as well as vent that frustration to the people who can make a difference?

They got that you and other people were frusterated a LONG time ago. Complaining about it now is just useless, and frankly, will just end up annoying people.

HEY, GUESS WHAT.


GET OVER IT.

agreed~ I wandered in here to see what all the hubub was about

Oh, get over it, right, gotcha. I like how you have a link selling things in your signature. The joke just writes itself there.

Now you're complaining about things in people's signatures? Real nice.

Complaining? Nah, not this time.

[Saki-the-cat]

I feel like i'm being trolled...

[BlackjackGabbiani]

"Get over" what, exactly? The fact that we're frustrated and want to do something about it, as well as vent that frustration to the people who can make a difference?

They got that you and other people were frusterated a LONG time ago. Complaining about it now is just useless, and frankly, will just end up annoying people.

And yet there's still stuff that has to be answered. Why did it take so long? What did this lawyer do that ate up so many months? We ARE getting a new lawyer, right? Why were we not informed until two days ago that the summary WAS the application? Why was only such a small space alloted to begin with? Why do conventions need so much space when they're not really "selling" anything and people who pay for their tickets there will generally know in advance that they're going to do so? Why was such preference given to industry people when they sell things available in normal stores? Why were the people rejected not informed directly and had to see it plastered on the website in what comes across as an afterthought?

Basically, why did all of this fail so very badly and what do you intend to do to fix it in the future?

[xxxchihiroxxx]

The flamewar stops, and the personal attacks stop, or I lock the thread down. Play nice kids.

THIS, I hate to see a discussion/debate cluttered up with pointless flames that become irrelevant to the topic at hand and just turn into a "I dont like you" "I dont like you either" volley.

Nerdtastic: The venue for the hall in 07 was a large parking garage that overheated very easily, and Im assuming, and based by a post by a staffer earlier in this thread, that the garage was the alternate idea for the hall but was decided against because of previous complaints back in 07. And as far as I know their letting the garage alone because of these complaints, as in no events are being held there.

And yes you pre regged for this year not next year, and this year the hall wont live up to your expectations, next year it possibly will. And that comment wasnt directly about you, nor was my whole post. Please do not take everything I type, or others type, and assume it is about yourself. I was referring to those who had said they wouldnt come back to K con, or break a tradition of coming to K con over this years vendors hall issues.

[nerdtastic]

The flamewar stops, and the personal attacks stop, or I lock the thread down. Play nice kids.

THIS, I hate to see a discussion/debate cluttered up with pointless flames that become irrelevant to the topic at hand and just turn into a "I dont like you" "I dont like you either" volley.

Nerdtastic: The venue for the hall in 07 was a large parking garage that overheated very easily, and Im assuming, and based by a post by a staffer earlier in this thread, that the garage was the alternate idea for the hall but was decided against because of previous complaints back in 07. And as far as I know their letting the garage alone because of these complaints, as in no events are being held there.

And yes you pre regged for this year not next year, and this year the hall wont live up to your expectations, next year it possibly will. And that comment wasnt directly about you, nor was my whole post. Please do not take everything I type, or others type, and assume it is about yourself. I was referring to those who had said they wouldnt come back to K con, or break a tradition of coming to K con over this years vendors hall issues.

Sure, absolutely. My thread combines with another, so I still have feelings it was "my" thread to begin with, etc.

Oh well. I'm still looking forward to the convetion. I got some answers from some higher up staffs, that's pretty much why I voiced my disgust at the start!

Pretty sure I wasn't flaming anyone, but if someone thought such, it wasn't my intent.  Just had a lot of people jumping to the defense of the con with the whole "get over it" mentality irked me.

I had fun last year, the only annoying thing was the lines, so this year I pre-reg'd. Hope the lines are better and I have fun!

[Saki-the-cat]

"Get over" what, exactly? The fact that we're frustrated and want to do something about it, as well as vent that frustration to the people who can make a difference?

They got that you and other people were frusterated a LONG time ago. Complaining about it now is just useless, and frankly, will just end up annoying people.

And yet there's still stuff that has to be answered. Why did it take so long? What did this lawyer do that ate up so many months? We ARE getting a new lawyer, right? Why were we not informed until two days ago that the summary WAS the application? Why was only such a small space alloted to begin with? Why do conventions need so much space when they're not really "selling" anything and people who pay for their tickets there will generally know in advance that they're going to do so? Why was such preference given to industry people when they sell things available in normal stores? Why were the people rejected not informed directly and had to see it plastered on the website in what comes across as an afterthought?

Basically, why did all of this fail so very badly and what do you intend to do to fix it in the future?

Well here's my opinion...
1: Maybe they don't want to discuss very far into legal issues with random people on the forums.
and 2: Maybe the forums arn't the best place to ask questions and complain. Try Email and PM.

[xxxchihiroxxx]

The flamewar stops, and the personal attacks stop, or I lock the thread down. Play nice kids.

THIS, I hate to see a discussion/debate cluttered up with pointless flames that become irrelevant to the topic at hand and just turn into a "I dont like you" "I dont like you either" volley.

Nerdtastic: The venue for the hall in 07 was a large parking garage that overheated very easily, and Im assuming, and based by a post by a staffer earlier in this thread, that the garage was the alternate idea for the hall but was decided against because of previous complaints back in 07. And as far as I know their letting the garage alone because of these complaints, as in no events are being held there.

And yes you pre regged for this year not next year, and this year the hall wont live up to your expectations, next year it possibly will. And that comment wasnt directly about you, nor was my whole post. Please do not take everything I type, or others type, and assume it is about yourself. I was referring to those who had said they wouldnt come back to K con, or break a tradition of coming to K con over this years vendors hall issues.

Sure, absolutely. My thread combines with another, so I still have feelings it was "my" thread to begin with, etc.

Oh well. I'm still looking forward to the convetion. I got some answers from some higher up staffs, that's pretty much why I voiced my disgust at the start!

Pretty sure I wasn't flaming anyone, but if someone thought such, it wasn't my intent.  Just had a lot of people jumping to the defense of the con with the whole "get over it" mentality irked me.

I had fun last year, the only annoying thing was the lines, so this year I pre-reg'd. Hope the lines are better and I have fun!

well merging happens, I'm assuming your topic was on the same line as this one, a complaint about the way the dealers hall is being handled this year thus it fit in with this one instead of having multiple threads about the same issue.

And yes I do hope you have fun too.

Concerning the rest of this I feel bad for the staff. Their stuck between a rock and a hard place, deal with the garage again where there would possibly be a whole thread of complaints about never wanting to return to that, or a thread about complaining that the hall is too small. I wish there was another venue they could have chose, and hopefully next year better options will present themselfs.

[Coconutty93]

HEY GUYS, HOW ABOUT YOU STOP COMPLAINING. We're lucky these people even put on this convention for us at all! So stop bitching and suck it up! If you don't like what's happening, don't come to the convention, but stop ruining it for everyone else! Btw, I know I was complaining a few days ago but I realized it was silly and got over myself...>3>

MORAL OF THE STORY: IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE CON, GTFO.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

I've tried email. For a few months now. There has never been an answer. Not even a "we're not at liberty to discuss those things"--even that would be more than the stony silence I got.

[xxxchihiroxxx]

HEY GUYS, HOW ABOUT YOU STOP COMPLAINING. We're lucky these people even put on this convention for us at all! So stop bitching and suck it up! If you don't like what's happening, don't come to the convention, but stop ruining it for everyone else! Btw, I know I was complaining a few days ago but I realized it was silly and got over myself...>3>

MORAL OF THE STORY: IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE CON, GTFO.

yes and no, complaining as in constant "ugh I hate the con, I hate the vendors hall" and nothing else are a bad mark.
But voicing concerns and attempting civil debates and speculation to possible better possibility if not for this year then the next year, are a good way to help the con improve itself. That could have been where this thread would go, but its turned into constant arguments. My hope is that things level back out here and it goes back to voicing concerns and attendees not only saying what they dont like but coming up with options to fix it. Which I do believe was happening before this storm of bolded and overly large printed argument over the last few pages occurred.

[Saki-the-cat]

They screwed up.
They apologized.
They said they would fix everything next year.
It's too close to the con to do anything about it this year.
Their screw-up didn't kill or hurt anyone.
Kindly move on and enjoy the con for what it's worth.

[Coconutty93]

chihiro: Yes, but at this point it's just people complaining, not trying to improve things. :T

[Coconutty93]

EDIT: Sorry, glitch.

[xxxchihiroxxx]

chihiro: Yes, but at this point it's just people complaining, not trying to improve things. :T

well I'm hoping it can get back on track then from complaining to improving things. This discussion is now really about next year than this year, as yes it is too late to improve the situation by much this year.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

chihiro: Yes, but at this point it's just people complaining, not trying to improve things. :T

I am very much trying to improve things, thank you very much.

[Coconutty93]

chihiro: Yes, but at this point it's just people complaining, not trying to improve things. :T

well I'm hoping it can get back on track then from complaining to improving things. This discussion is now really about next year than this year, as yes it is too late to improve the situation by much this year.

I agree, but I also don't see that happening any time soon. I think the complaining will go up until the con and after the con will be a bit more complaining and then some improving.

Blackjack: If you say so. A lot of people think otherwise. Oh, and don't think I was just talking about just you, cuz I wasn't.

[MiriaRose]

They screwed up.
They apologized.
They said they would fix everything next year.
It's too close to the con to do anything about it this year.
Their screw-up didn't kill or hurt anyone.
Kindly move on and enjoy the con for what it's worth.

No, but it's a legitimate complaint and by telling them to "get over it" you're just ignoring the issue (and bumping the thread, therefore allowing more people to see this).

Also, their screw-up definitely may have hurt people. The United States is in a recession and narrowly avoided defaulting on its loans. Shops are being hit hard because people don't have the confidence to spend money (see: the S&P 500, the US' credit ranking dropping down a notch) and the denied vendors might have depending on this to make a profit for this per capita. Considering that you're someone who complains about not having money quite a bit, you should be able to understand.

[PaperRoxas]

HEY, GUESS WHAT.


GET OVER IT.

agreed~ I wandered in here to see what all the hubub was about

Oh, get over it, right, gotcha. I like how you have a link selling things in your signature. The joke just writes itself there.

._.; I'm hardly ever active on here and forgot that I had put that in my siggy. I've actually given up on selling things, not to mention, I'm not the one trying to apply to to be in the Dealer's room to begin with. Get facts straight before posting something you have no idea about ;>.> These were things I had around I didn't want anymore and I was trying to sell them, smart one.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

Blackjack: If you say so. A lot of people think otherwise. Oh, and don't think I was just talking about just you, cuz I wasn't.

"at this point it's just people complaining" sort of puts everyone in the thread together.

Also, nerdtastic, please don't be inflammitory. If someone has a shop in their sig has nothing whatsoever to do with the subject at hand. I know you're on my side but you're making that side look bad.

[PaperRoxas]

Blackjack: If you say so. A lot of people think otherwise. Oh, and don't think I was just talking about just you, cuz I wasn't.

"at this point it's just people complaining" sort of puts everyone in the thread together.

Also, nerdtastic, please don't be inflammitory. If someone has a shop in their sig has nothing whatsoever to do with the subject at hand. I know you're on my side but you're making that side look bad.

Thank you Blackjack~

[EveofAbyss]

"Get over" what, exactly? The fact that we're frustrated and want to do something about it, as well as vent that frustration to the people who can make a difference?

They got that you and other people were frusterated a LONG time ago. Complaining about it now is just useless, and frankly, will just end up annoying people.

And yet there's still stuff that has to be answered. Why did it take so long? What did this lawyer do that ate up so many months? We ARE getting a new lawyer, right? Why were we not informed until two days ago that the summary WAS the application? Why was only such a small space alloted to begin with? Why do conventions need so much space when they're not really "selling" anything and people who pay for their tickets there will generally know in advance that they're going to do so? Why was such preference given to industry people when they sell things available in normal stores? Why were the people rejected not informed directly and had to see it plastered on the website in what comes across as an afterthought?

Basically, why did all of this fail so very badly and what do you intend to do to fix it in the future?

As someone else suggested, your questions for the most part are much more technical and the answers are probably simply inappropriate for discussion in this manner. I know you have said you've had email troubles in the past, but I'd encourage you to try emailing your questions to the proper staff email address (of course, it would be wise to wait until after the con has passed and died down, otherwise your email will most definitely get buried).

I have no answers to give, but I again just encourage you to not give up on your pursuit, but to also understand that this is the kind of thing that will require patience if you really want sufficient answers beyond what has been provided here already.

[Witchaven]

A few things I have read so far in this thread that I feel I should give some input on.
First off, Blackjack, you asked why Conventions are given so much space. Well, first off, there is onbly 1 Convention that got space, and it's from a long standing arrangement between the 2 Conventions (Sakura and Kumori) for the exchange of 1 booth space each. Each Booth is given an 8'x8' area to setup with. Believe it or not, this is actually a rather small space when you consider space is taken up by displays and tables. Kumori is getting a MUCH better deal from this long standing exchange, considering they basically get a $450 space with over 3 times the traffic for the low cost of a $230 space.
As for those who are concerned about the variety of merchandise. If you look into what each of the chosen Dealer's carry, you'll find there is actually a good mix. I can say at my booth alone there's a large variety, including Plushies, Model Kits, Figures, Keychains and Wallscrolls.
To the Dealers who didn't get in, I can fully understand how you feel. Last year, someone at Kumoricon dropped the ball on my shop as well as several other Dealers I know. I have a feeling one of the reasons my shop was seleected was partially to make up for last year as well as for the variety my shop brings.
Finally, to any Dealer who did not get in, I'd like to offer this. If your going to be attending Kumoricon as an attendee, then please feel free to stop by my booth with any promotional material you may have and I will try to find some way to help you promote your business at the Con. Also, if you'd like, feel free to contact me and I'll see if we can arrange some kind of consignment deal with you so at least some of your merchandise can be sold at the Con.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

That's odd, I swear that list included Aki-con and at least two others the other day. Perhaps I conflated it with some other list, mentally.

How did they "drop the ball" last year? And the price this year was only 230? See, I didn't even hear THAT much!

[nikkiolie]

Oh lordy this thread XD It is good for a nice lol.

Everything here has gotten out of hand. All it is is two against everyone and two people who refuse, no many how many logical and legitimate answer they are giving, still find things to complain about.

Nerdtastic: I'm glad you are going to try to enjoy the con. You have voiced your concerns and people have clearly heard them. You much rather other peoples favorite part of the con be cut down so that your favorite part can be increased. We get it. Why are you so special that other people have to suffer just so you can be happy? It seems like so far (though its hard to tell without a schedule) that there is a fair balance between everything.

Blackjack: Staff said you sent a buttload of emails and they answered them the best they could while not giving you all then attention and trying to answer other peoples. A legal matter while it is happening is NOT something that should be discussed with others outside of said legal matter. Right now staff are frantic trying to get ready for con so they may not be able to answer your email. Like someone else said, wait till after con and I am sure that you can have your questions answered. Also, I think you may be the only one that didn't know that sending the information in was your way of applying. I understood that pretty well. A possibility is just posting questions in here with each one of them on a separate line and that will make it very easy for staff to answer them then waiting for their response rather than responding to people who just attend the con and can not give you answers and are 90% of the time not directing anything to you even though you seem to feel they are. Majority of the posts are directed at nerdtastic and people who are upset and general.


As for everyone else:

[@random]

I've tried email. For a few months now. There has never been an answer. Not even a "we're not at liberty to discuss those things"--even that would be more than the stony silence I got.

[mod hat off]

Blackjack, you know that's not true. Heck, even I know that's not true. I've talked to you about it several times privately, and while I wasn't able to give you all the answers or the answers you wanted, I've given you the answers I had. I'm not even in Relations, and I've chased down information to the best of my ability for you.

To boot, I'm told by people who have always given me good reason to trust them that Relations has answered your questions so many times it's ridiculous, with much more patience than I'd have had.

There's a giant difference between "There has never been an answer" and "No one will give me the answer I want, so I'll keep asking".

[mod hat on]

This has gone far beyond the point of reasonable discussion. If someone has a new argument to make that doesn't boil down to "You suck", a new question to ask other than "Why do you suck so much?", or a new answer to give other than "It's because you suck" - about the subject of dealers hall - please do so. It would be very welcome.

To amplify Bresslol's injunction:
Flaming is no longer necessary. If the going-nowhere-but-in-circles continues, this thread will be locked.
_{(That is, if it doesn't die of natural causes as nikkiolie suggests.)}

[nerdtastic]

Oh lordy this thread XD It is good for a nice lol.

Everything here has gotten out of hand. All it is is two against everyone and two people who refuse, no many how many logical and legitimate answer they are giving, still find things to complain about.

Nerdtastic: I'm glad you are going to try to enjoy the con. You have voiced your concerns and people have clearly heard them. You much rather other peoples favorite part of the con be cut down so that your favorite part can be increased. We get it. Why are you so special that other people have to suffer just so you can be happy? It seems like so far (though its hard to tell without a schedule) that there is a fair balance between everything.

Blackjack: Staff said you sent a buttload of emails and they answered them the best they could while not giving you all then attention and trying to answer other peoples. A legal matter while it is happening is NOT something that should be discussed with others outside of said legal matter. Right now staff are frantic trying to get ready for con so they may not be able to answer your email. Like someone else said, wait till after con and I am sure that you can have your questions answered. Also, I think you may be the only one that didn't know that sending the information in was your way of applying. I understood that pretty well. A possibility is just posting questions in here with each one of them on a separate line and that will make it very easy for staff to answer them then waiting for their response rather than responding to people who just attend the con and can not give you answers and are 90% of the time not directing anything to you even though you seem to feel they are. Majority of the posts are directed at nerdtastic and people who are upset and general.


As for everyone else:

Your first few sentences directed at me were ok. Then saying "Why are you so special" is just inflamatory. If someone is saying me pointing out someone having a link to sell stuff on while not being sad about the small amount of dealers is "inflamatory", then surely that is.

Why am I so special? I'm not. I had a complaint, it was dealt with. Not to my liking, but ho hum. I'm moving on, but I'd appreciate not having to check this thread to make sure people aren't piling on me more.

[Taikei]

^ unnecessary post is unnecessary

[EveofAbyss]

How to post without bumping the thread....

Really, everyone. Stop responding here. nothing we say will resolve anything. So, like a tied-up t-shirt in a bucket of colored water....let it dye (nyuk nyuk nyuk). But seriously. No more posting from us normal people.

[JeffT]

And yet there's still stuff that has to be answered. Why did it take so long?

Blackjack, it was answered why it took so long. New staff members were involved in various pieces of preparing the exhibitors hall, and we ran into unexpected difficulties. We have apologized for mistakes that were made. There is nothing more to say. We realize some people are unhappy with the size of the dealers hall, the selection of dealers, and we're going to live with those choices, and do it better for next year. End of story.

What did this lawyer do that ate up so many months? We ARE getting a new lawyer, right?

Blackjack, don't single out individual people for blame when you don't know the facts. At one point, an attorney review was one step that was being worked on. At no point was our attorney responsible for these delays.

So, what, anyway? Supposing it was our lawyer's fault (which it wasn't), what difference would it make, at this point, to publicly divulge individual blame? The organization has spoken for its actions. That is all that is needed.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

Randompvg--actually no. The only person who actually sent me an email was Teresa. When she told me to contact Sarah in relations, Sarah never actually emailed me, but replied in a single comment on here. If they're claiming that relations emailed me a ton, they're lying.

JeffT--I can only go by what I was told, and what I was told was that the holdup was due to "our lawyer". I never asked that the lawyer's identity be made public, only to find out what took so long and perhaps if we'd be getting another one this year.

Those are things that CAN be addressed, even if only to say "no comment". Even that is far better than having these questions recieve no answer whatsoever.

[Bresslol]

Alright.

This is starting to become cyclical. Blackjack, you're looking to be right, you get information from an exec, bicker, get more information from another exec, bicker, and it's starting again.

I am locking this thread for the time being. If you have further issues, email Relations and/or the Chair.