Always Remember to Be On Guard at Cons

[EveofAbyss]

We all want to believe Kumoricon and anime conventions are safe places, our havens and home away from our homes. For the most part this is true, but remember, you have to do your part to stay safe and keep yourself from harm. This news story is a terrible reminder of that.

Girls, guys, ladies, children, teens, adults - everyone, really - have fun and enjoy Kumoricon, but also remember to keep your guard up and your wits about you. Be wise in your fandom. That's the best way to enjoy it, after all!

Thankfully we have Yojimbo and staff who make Kumoricon a generally safe and trusting place, but don't abandon your common sense either.

Let's all have a safe and memorable con!

[superjaz]

That's so sad. Yes please be safe attendees.

I like that katsucon will now run attendees names thru the offender registry, but since he was using his middle name as his last name I don't know if it would have made a difference in this case, but hopefully it will prevent it from happening in the future.  I thought part of being registered as an offender they are suppose to avoid places populated by children like schools, I would think a con would fall under that.

I really hope they don't plead him out lightly.

Being as pregger first time mom, it scares me does make me wonder about how I am going to raise my child, when do I allow something like face book (I think I will totally be screening friends up to age 16) freedom to walk to the store alone and things like that.

Did you see that really sad case about an 8 year old boy murdered on the first time he was allowed to walk home alone
http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/07/13/2011-07-13_body_of_missing_boy_leiby_kletzky_8_found_in_dumpster_in_park_slope.html

My heart and prayers go out to the family.

[chelseahavoc]

i just heard about the little boy and his first walk home makes me want to be an over protective mommy (when i have kids) but sadly when you do that most the time they srink away and get into thouse messes too....sometimes you just want to distroy the world just to get rid of the evil (or touse with horribley bad intions ) off of it

[EveofAbyss]

That's why we need a real Kira! (Sorry, been watching Death Note and the idea of a megalomaniacal vigilante seems terribly applicable right now.)

[@random]

That's why we need a real Kira! (Sorry, been watching Death Note and the idea of a megalomaniacal vigilante seems terribly applicable right now.)

This. Especially for the majority of cases where it's a family friend or member, so they get by with a slap on the wrist (if they even get that much). Heck, I'd even trade for "the eyes" for people like that.

But for Kcon, we don't need Kira... we have kylite.

[superjaz]

i just heard about the little boy and his first walk home makes me want to be an over protective mommy

YES

thinking about it, when I was 8 I went to school by my self, and since we had moved, in a town where I did not know where anything was and farther then the boy walked, tho I was given a bike, but was not taught to ride it, learned the hard way (small town layfett oregon) at 9 I was responsible for my younger brother as well (different town) makes me feel lucky to be here

My husband was the reverse his parents were always there but as lived in LA, and his dad was a cop who knew what could happen.

Just wondering if any of you younger peeps, how many of you have parents who stay at the hotel during con?

[Washougal_Otaku]

People like that suck.    I say castrate the creep.

I would like to point out something that was said by the con..

"In light of this event, Katsucon will make every effort to check our pre-registration attendee list against local and federally published sex offender registries and will prohibit attendance from those identified as a threat to our attendees in the hope to prevent an incident such as this from ever occurring again."

We should do something like this, too.  Though this won't guarantee a perfect protection for our attendees, it will help a lot.

[Saki-the-cat]

Just wondering if any of you younger peeps, how many of you have parents who stay at the hotel during con?

My parents don't stay at the con with me, but i have to have trusted adult staying with me at the hotel (and at all times when i go outside, which makes sense. Even i'm a little frightened myself about walking around cities alone). Which is kind of cool considering most of my friends are over 18

[neko_goes_nyaaa]

Too bad kids these days didn't have Winnie The Pooh to teach them about Stranger Danger like I did.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZ-dBujy3IM

[Saki-the-cat]

Too bad kids these days didn't have Winnie The Pooh to teach them about Stranger Danger like I did.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZ-dBujy3IM

Oh man, kids shows were so awesome back then. I learned so much from stuff like that.
Though, i have to admit that that Pooh was a little creepy...I prefer cartoons.

[neko_goes_nyaaa]

Me too, Adventures of Winnie the Pooh in the 80's was awesome, but everytime I watched the older live action Pooh I was like "wtf is this?" There was also a live action Dumbo, that was even creepier.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=attoEWTbhrs - Srsly, he looks scarier than Tapier from CoCoRon.

[Saki-the-cat]

Even the cartoon movie of Dumbo scared me as a child DX

[neko_goes_nyaaa]

People like that suck.    I say castrate the creep.

Just like in my favorite video by OOMPH!; "Beim ersten Mal tut's immer weh" also the movie Hard Candy, apparently, which I was not yet aware of and the viddie is apparently based on... Hm.

[Washougal_Otaku]

Too bad kids these days didn't have Winnie The Pooh to teach them about Stranger Danger like I did.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZ-dBujy3IM

Word.

Me too, Adventures of Winnie the Pooh in the 80's was awesome, but everytime I watched the older live action Pooh I was like "wtf is this?" There was also a live action Dumbo, that was even creepier.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=attoEWTbhrs - Srsly, he looks scarier than Tapier from CoCoRon.

...the nightmares...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkBkR5jb6u0&NR=1 - I used to LOVE this show.

[neko_goes_nyaaa]

Oh lawd, Under The Umbrella Tree... I remember that... and also this other show on PBS that had similar looking puppets with a grey mouse named Merci that tried to teach kids french. Can't remember the name of it though.

[Washougal_Otaku]

^ I'm not sure I know that one...

[Trash Can Ninja]

Call me mean or anything if you wish, but why did a 13 year old girl have relations
like such in the first place isn't that a little young?
Sex isn't exactly a kids activity ya know?
Really all and all both people involved made bad choices.
He re-offended, and she told someone she knew on-line about her self and flirted, with out knowing him.
Then again...this is America 2011 not America the 90's.
I shouldn't be so surprised or confused.

ETHER WAY! Please do be safe specially if your still a minor.
Only be around people you know in Real life,
and more than like a random talk once or twice, by yourself in your room.
Try to stay in a group.
See or hear something say something.
Staff would rather know about suspicious activity I'm sure.
And have fun lots of it!

[@random]

Thing is, whether it's "right" or not, the legal definition is that there are some people incapable of giving consent. This includes someone who is too impaired by alcohol or some other drug (prescription or not) to exercise judgment. If an anesthesiologist has sex with an unconscious patient, the law defines it as rape because they were incapable of giving consent. Period. End of story.

In the same way, a minor below a certain age is defined as being too young to exercise judgment. If an adult sleeps with them knowing they're underage, no amount of flirting (or "temptation", or "she was scantily dressed, Your Honor") makes it okay. The law defines it as statutory rape.

Do laws for the protection of children get abused? YMMV; I would say in some circumstances yes (with PROTECT being a spectacular example). But in this case, at least IMO, it's simply not possible for a child this young to give consent. It's statutory rape.

[veraca]

That's pretty sad. Sending the names through the offender's list sounds like a great idea to me. On the devil's advocate hand, though, I must say, is it fair to lock-out a registered offender who might or might not be attending with malicious intent?

Though, this does make me question some things about anime conventions. I've heard rumors that some people go to the conventions purely for sex, contra-ban, alcohol and the like. I have doubts that was what within this girl's mind when she attended the convention. And to continue relations with someone clearly older than her online is fine to a degree. But to then meet in person without the protection of parents, public, or the convention atmosphere... :/ Well, yeah. While the minor could say it was consent, by age alone (defining brain development), I would seriously question her motives.

REGARDLESS. I'm totally on the side of the victim and everyone being careful and aware of who they talk to. If you're talking to someone who is invading your personal bubble or making you uncomfortable, you do have the legitamate right to verbally turn them down. And if you don't feel safe doing that, you look for help from someone bigger than you (physically or by age), someone more outspoken than you, or from staff and security. And from that you're probably within in your right to call the police with the excuse of "harassment". [If and only if, the person has not let you alone after repeated requests that they do so.]

^ I think that sounds about right?

[@random]

^ It does.

To add a little to your devil's advocacy, I'm worried about the fact that if Jerrod Harris Smith gets convicted under the name "Jerry Smith", we'd be very likely to turn away a lot of innocent Jerry Smiths.. while the original would just start going by J. Harry Smith and get in just fine. The trouble with lists is that unless you start giving away ID-theft-level information, any list will likely be too nonspecific. 

~

Echoing what veraca and Trash Can Ninja said, if you see anything that even makes you suspicious - please talk to yojimbo or another staff member right away. There's no reason for you to have to put up with the guy who keeps trying to talk you up to his room, take photos of you after you've refused, offer you an open container of something to drink, or suchlike. We take child/teenager safety VERY seriously, and we'll gladly do anything we can to help.

[superjaz]

That's pretty sad. Sending the names through the offender's list sounds like a great idea to me. On the devil's advocate hand, though, I must say, is it fair to lock-out a registered offender who might or might not be attending with malicious intent?

I would say totally YES to this, because they would be putting them self's at risk to a place where children are plentiful.

[JeffT]

On the devil's advocate hand, though, I must say, is it fair to lock-out a registered offender who might or might not be attending with malicious intent?

It's fair, because they gave up their expectation of equal treatment when they committed the first crime.

You can get banned for life from a con for doing far less than the things that would get you on a sex offender list.

People can reform, but actions have consequences.

[Tanuki19]

There is also the thing where people are taking pictures of you at the con. Most people want to take pics of your cosplay because its really good or they appreciate the character but you never really know what someone will do with the picture especially if it is a revealing outfit. If someone asks for your picture and you don't feel comfortable with them taking the picture then you have every right to say no. then walk away very fast.

[EveofAbyss]

There is also the thing where people are taking pictures of you at the con. Most people want to take pics of your cosplay because its really good or they appreciate the character but you never really know what someone will do with the picture especially if it is a revealing outfit. If someone asks for your picture and you don't feel comfortable with them taking the picture then you have every right to say no. then walk away very fast.

On that note, I've got to share something Tycho from Penny Arcade wrote on just this topic. It's too perfect.

In talking about cosplay and conventions, he writes:

There’s simply a weirdo contingent at these things. Right?  You aren't a weirdo for attending, but you can be a weirdo and attend.  That’s not especially revelatory, is it? I mean, I’m a weirdo, and when I see some of the people, I’m sorta like “Reel it in.” I don’t like being looked at, I feel like the human gaze has a tangible quality, something you can palp, so the idea of dressing up and being photographed as an explicitly recreational act is beyond my conception. That’s independent of what a gross person wants with those pictures. Brenna and I were getting passport photos once, and instead of throwing away the extra copies, Passport Photo Man threw mine away and kept hers.

“Is that in case we need an extra?” I asked. He didn’t answer; just gave me a look, and in this look I could see a hundred mannequins in various states of disrepair, each of them with a tiny picture for a face.

The fear is made reasonable when you hear stories like this (about the sex offender). It does get one slightly paranoid about who is taking the pictures and why, but I have never encountered anyone at Kumoricon that seems to give off the red flags (probably because I'm a lumberjack-of-a-man with an Action Hank beard), but since I'm bringing my little sister for the first time this year (and she will be cosplaying from Tokyo Mew Mew with four other 11 year old girls), you can bet this article will give me new eyes and I'll most likely be on the lookout in ways I haven't been before.

In my experience though, Kumoricon has been a safe place on the creeper front. Then again, that's just my experience.

[Washougal_Otaku]

There is also the thing where people are taking pictures of you at the con. Most people want to take pics of your cosplay because its really good or they appreciate the character but you never really know what someone will do with the picture especially if it is a revealing outfit. If someone asks for your picture and you don't feel comfortable with them taking the picture then you have every right to say no. then walk away very fast.

On that note, I've got to share something Tycho from Penny Arcade wrote on just this topic. It's too perfect.

In talking about cosplay and conventions, he writes:

There’s simply a weirdo contingent at these things. Right?  You aren't a weirdo for attending, but you can be a weirdo and attend.  That’s not especially revelatory, is it? I mean, I’m a weirdo, and when I see some of the people, I’m sorta like “Reel it in.” I don’t like being looked at, I feel like the human gaze has a tangible quality, something you can palp, so the idea of dressing up and being photographed as an explicitly recreational act is beyond my conception. That’s independent of what a gross person wants with those pictures. Brenna and I were getting passport photos once, and instead of throwing away the extra copies, Passport Photo Man threw mine away and kept hers.

“Is that in case we need an extra?” I asked. He didn’t answer; just gave me a look, and in this look I could see a hundred mannequins in various states of disrepair, each of them with a tiny picture for a face.

The fear is made reasonable when you hear stories like this (about the sex offender). It does get one slightly paranoid about who is taking the pictures and why, but I have never encountered anyone at Kumoricon that seems to give off the red flags (probably because I'm a lumberjack-of-a-man with an Action Hank beard), but since I'm bringing my little sister for the first time this year (and she will be cosplaying from Tokyo Mew Mew with four other 11 year old girls), you can bet this article will give me new eyes and I'll most likely be on the lookout in ways I haven't been before.

In my experience though, Kumoricon has been a safe place on the creeper front. Then again, that's just my experience.

So far, this is the case, but it's best to be prepared in whatever ways we can, right?

[veraca]

I mentioned this in the miniskirt topic from a while back, but regardless of your age you should always be aware of your surroundings. A 5' petite 21 year old girl is in the same amount of danger as a 5' average 14 year old girl, ruled simply on size.

I'm a big proponent to feeling safe and secure and having a buddy system with cellphones, and knowing where the staff and security are stationed in relation to where you are and the important booths, like First Aid, Lost & Found and Info.

Guys are generally considered "safer" than girls. In the meaning of, my mom would let my brother walk around the streets however he wanted when he was 14 around our house and I was limited to not leaving our woodsy long driveway unless I was on my bike and just going to the library two blocks away. Or if I had a friend with me, I could wander more. There are stories I know of where guys are in just as much danger as girls, though I do feel people tend to judge girls much more quickly based on fashion, height and builds.

[superjaz]

Yup the double standard, I know at times when hanging around with younger female attendees, and a guy flirts, I would act big sister-y.  A unrelated guy friend can't do that as freely.

I would also recommend, just listen to the gut feeling, its served me well in the past, if something/some one is giving you creepy vibes leave, or ask any k-con staff for some help. 

[acton]

I guess you are talikg about this http://tinyurl.com/3wlfsbv
This hurts and angers me in two ways. First it hurts the con experience of our young attendees. Second as and older fan I worry about over zealous security. For those who do not know me this will be my forth Kumoricon. I am the guy with a big Hello Kitty or other Sanrio Plush and host the otaku over 30 panel. I already guarded around minors in that I do not want to send the wrong signal. Now do have worry about secuity.

[Washougal_Otaku]

^ Yup, that's the one.

Also, it's not a double standard if it's a safety issue.

[Saki-the-cat]

I know this may sound weird, but, relating to that link two posts up, am i the only one who thinks the girl should be in just as much trouble as the guy? I'm sorry, but i think anyone over the age of 13 should be smart enough to not have sex with some 30-year-old or so guy they met at a con. It just blows my mind that a person of my age could be so stupid and careless.

[EveofAbyss]

I'm sure she is in moral trouble (with her parents and friends), but you just can't criminally charge a minor when the situation is statutory rape. Statutory rape automatically victimizes the minor and incriminates the adult (at least that's what I've noticed). Yes, the girl should have known better, but between the two, it is the guy that made it happen, and he was the adult between the two, so it is he (of the two) who receives the brunt and the blame.

[superjaz]

Age of consent.  Same way she isn't old enough to buy cigarettes booze or vote.

[@random]

^^ That's how it seems like it should be, but I've heard of cases where one person gets charged even when they're both underage. Usually the guy in the case of sex, usually the girl in the case of sexting. Go figure.  

^^^ The theory behind statutory rape is that even if an underage person knows what sex is, they don't fully understand all the emotional and rational consequences, and are therefore unable to give consent. Without consent, sex is rape - this would be true whether the person is under duress, too drunk/drugged to know what's going on, or incapable because of age or mental handicap.

If you compare it to contract law, it might make a little more sense... a contract is obviously invalid if one person forced the other to sign it at gunpoint. But it's just as invalid if one person uses the other's hand to sign it for them while they're unconscious, or if it's written in another language and the person who does understand what it means lies to the person who doesn't understand it.

[Washougal_Otaku]

If you compare it to contract law, it might make a little more sense... a contract is obviously invalid if one person forced the other to sign it at gunpoint. But it's just as invalid if one person uses the other's hand to sign it for them while they're unconscious, or if it's written in another language and the person who does understand what it means lies to the person who doesn't understand it.

That's a very good way to look at it, both logically and (perhaps) legally.

[SpaceCubaLikesConan]

People are sick. That's why I hate peopl ^^(not trying to sound negative).
All I know is that both of those men aren't gonna be able to sit on their prison beds for weeks after the inmates are through with them *coughdon'tdropthesoapcoughcough*
But in all seriousness, I think those people should all be sent to Camp Gitmo. See? I found a good use for that place. I deserve a Peace Prize.

[Washougal_Otaku]

All I know is that both of those men aren't gonna be able to sit on their prison beds for weeks after the inmates are through with them

They would if they were in Washington...

[kylite]

Con Survival Basics 101

1. If someone offers you food/drink dont accept it unless you know and trust them. If you see someone trying to offer drinks in wierd places (elevators/hallways/doorways) find a staff member and report it

2. ALWAYS keep an eye on your personal belongings. If someone wants to take a picture of you put your personal belongings in front of you where you can see it, not off to the side or behind you. If you need to go to the restroom take the items with you or have a friend guard it.

3. If someone is making you feel threatened/Uncomfortable find a staffer and report it. We will resolve the matter quietly.

4. The buddy system. Very important to travel with someone else. If you are going to wander off form your friends/family then LET THEM KNOW WHERE YOUR GOING! and make sure yo have a way to reach you. Cell Phones/Pagers.

[Saki-the-cat]

Yeah, i'm not even allowed to wander around con, especially outside, unless i have an older friend with me.

[Titus_Love_Doll]

Yeah, i'm not even allowed to wander around con, especially outside, unless i have an older friend with me.

Saki you got me ill give you my cell so you have it for emergency if you need to contact me ill be there.

also those who wear skimpy cosplay or very revling costumes bring extra clothing for at night. night time you all can get into unwanted trubble bring jackets. to cover your top or extra pj pants. when heading back to the hotel you are staying at. its a good way to keep safe from weirdos

[Saki-the-cat]

Yeah, i'm not even allowed to wander around con, especially outside, unless i have an older friend with me.

Saki you got me ill give you my cell so you have it for emergency if you need to contact me ill be there.

Yes i do~ Plus like, ten other people too xD

[Titus_Love_Doll]

Yeah, i'm not even allowed to wander around con, especially outside, unless i have an older friend with me.

Saki you got me ill give you my cell so you have it for emergency if you need to contact me ill be there.

Yes i do~ Plus like, ten other people too xD

yes but your my cute little sisseh and i have to keep you safe o.o

[Saki-the-cat]

I'm not exactly comfortable with people calling me that >>;

[Washougal_Otaku]

^ You can also rely on the Yojimbo, too.

[Runa]

Basically, this all comes down to common sense, people.

As long as you stay inside the hotel, you're in a (reasonably) safe place. Of course, if you are minor and someone older than you invites you into his hotel room, the correct answer is NO...or, at the very least, bring along someone who you can trust (parent or other guardian) to ensure that you are safe.

If you are planning to travel between the Hilton & the Red Lion after dark, PLEASE travel in groups of 3 or more.... if you are alone and really have to go to the other hotel, PLEASE speak to one of the Yojimbo and see if one of them would be willing to escort you there. It's far better to be paranoid & safe than do something risky and being VERY sorry you did that.... Yes, I would recruit an escort (or two!) to take me between hotels after hours... I don't care how "safe" people say the area is, I'd rather seem overly paranoid than take the chance with my personal safety.

[Washougal_Otaku]

^ Well, with that in mind, downtown Vancouver is incredibly safe.  Most of the action will be taking place elsewhere.  However, it is always best to be safe in an unfamiliar area, as well as if you're more likely to be a target.  ( I'd like to see what'd happen if someone tried something on ME outside of the con!)

[EveofAbyss]

Speaking of safety, I'm not only cosplaying a mercenary...I am one! (in my head anyway, lol) I say that to say, if you see me around and need an escort, I'd be glad to bring you into the fold of my friends and walk you between hotels. Just look for the big bearded dude with a gun for an arm! ^_^

[TalaRedWolf33]

Im using my phone, so i didnt see the news story you mentioned. Can someone explain what happened? Also, i may take you up on that offer when we walk from the rave to our car if youre there

[EveofAbyss]

Basically, some adult guy convinced a 13 year old girl to have sex (statutory rape), at an anime convention. There's more to it, but that's the gist of it.

[Saki-the-cat]

I'm glad that there are so many nice people here on the forums  

Im using my phone, so i didnt see the news story you mentioned. Can someone explain what happened? Also, i may take you up on that offer when we walk from the rave to our car if youre there

Long story short, this 34-year-old guy (who had a past of raping two girls before this) met this 13-year-old girl at an anime con. They continued to be friends for a few months before the guy convinced the girl to sneak out of her parents house and have sex with him in the woods. Later she found out his true identity and found out that he was a registered sex offender. He is sentenced to three years in prison and three years probation

[TalaRedWolf33]

Wow thanks for explaining. Yea, so um depending on who is at the rave, ima attach myself like a barnacle to the biggest and strongest guy there and have them escort me back to my boyfriends car.

[EveofAbyss]

That sounds like a wise plan. ^_^ Everyone, just use common sense. It'll get you far. Kumoricon is generally a safe place, but common sense can keep even the sneakiest of incidents from happening.

[Washougal_Otaku]

He is sentenced to three years in prison and three years probation

A pathetic sentence, in my opinion.  Since he's a repeat offender, (and if I were in charge of the law) he'd have been in for at least 15 years, and possibly castrated.

Wow thanks for explaining. Yea, so um depending on who is at the rave, ima attach myself like a barnacle to the biggest and strongest guy there and have them escort me back to my boyfriends car.

I'd recommend that you ask your boyfriend to escort you back.  If he doesn't plan to be at the rave, perhaps you could just call him as soon as you're finished...

[TalaRedWolf33]

Oh no, he will be with me, but he has a slight disability. I love him, but if something were to happen, i know he would only end up hurting himself more. Besides, the more men there are around, the less likely a mugger will approach and attempt something. And in the area where the con is, big groups will discourage a lot of the sketchy people from trying anything.

[Washougal_Otaku]

This is true...

Well, I wouldn't mind offering my services for something like this, though I wasn't planning on going to either rave.  Plus, I have plans on Sunday up until 10:30.  I'm not sure when they plan to end, but I might be able to help out on Saturday...

[Lady Locust]

Speak of the devil. My friend and I were at the first rave having the best times of our lives (we just turned 18 and this is our first con being legal adults!) and this guy started dancing with us. I reminded my friend of our 'lesbian rule' (we pretend to be in a relationship together whenever there is someone we don't want dancing with us), he saw me whispering to her and tried to get us back to his hotel to drink. We told him no, and that we weren't 21...but then he said it was okay, he's just trying to get some girls to go have fun with his buddies in their room...
I then had to lie to him and told him we don't like men, which is when he got the hint that we weren't interested.
This has happened to us many times before at other non-convention raves, but I never really expected to have this happen at Kumoricon. Just goes to show you that creepers can pop up when you least expect them... Minecraft is too true.

[TalaRedWolf33]

Thankfully, my boyfriend and i decided not to go to the rave. We were being followed by this really awful guy. He had a badge, but it looked like he was supposed to have someone watching him.  He smelled like a bathroom.

[Tanuki19]

I reminded my friend of our 'lesbian rule' (we pretend to be in a relationship together whenever there is someone we don't want dancing with us)

My friend and I have that same rule but for general creepers, not just dancing XD it can really come in handy!

[Washougal_Otaku]

I reminded my friend of our 'lesbian rule' (we pretend to be in a relationship together whenever there is someone we don't want dancing with us)

My friend and I have that same rule but for general creepers, not just dancing XD it can really come in handy!

Though I don't normally agree with this, it does have a lot of advantages.  Some guys don't care, though, and it wouldn't work too well with a female creeper.

[thesirensings]

I reminded my friend of our 'lesbian rule' (we pretend to be in a relationship together whenever there is someone we don't want dancing with us)

My friend and I have that same rule but for general creepers, not just dancing XD it can really come in handy!

Though I don't normally agree with this, it does have a lot of advantages.  Some guys don't care, though, and it wouldn't work too well with a female creeper.

Yeah, there are a lot of jerks out there who think that a woman being a lesbian simply means that she has only been with guys who sucked, and doesn't know what a real man feels like. They take this as a challenge.

[veraca]

That is exactly why I have a strict rule of no alcohol, cigarettes or drugs of any sort with my group of con attendees I go with. I won't bar one or two from going to the sake tasting, but I have warned them that if they over do it I will not stick around to hear their drunken blabbering stupidness. I have no patience for it and immediately shoot them down.

I did have someone once ask me out for drinks and I shot them down so fast with how alcohol ruins your life on so many different levels, they ran off speechless. And I didn't even need a single cuss word.

[Washougal_Otaku]

I reminded my friend of our 'lesbian rule' (we pretend to be in a relationship together whenever there is someone we don't want dancing with us)

My friend and I have that same rule but for general creepers, not just dancing XD it can really come in handy!

Though I don't normally agree with this, it does have a lot of advantages.  Some guys don't care, though, and it wouldn't work too well with a female creeper.

Yeah, there are a lot of jerks out there who think that a woman being a lesbian simply means that she has only been with guys who sucked, and doesn't know what a real man feels like. They take this as a challenge.

That's not it.  Believe me.  Though it might be true for some guys (and I know that it's true for some lesbians), many guys do it for the challenge.  Some also do it because they know that some girls lie about it in order to keep guys away.  Some guys also don't care because they only care about themselves.  I know several guys who could fit under options 2 or 3, and only a couple for option 1.

[Drauska]

I know he wasn't at the "con" cause he didn't have a badge but the pedobear was hanging around ester shore park the whole weekend and would only "hug" little kids.  Sick. 

[EveofAbyss]

I may be in the minority, but I've never been down with the pedobear cosplays. I have always thought it crosses a line, especially for an event like Kumoricon. Every time I do see one, something in me wants to give 'em a knuckle sandwich, lol.

[IrukaSensei]

That is exactly why I have a strict rule of no alcohol, cigarettes or drugs of any sort with my group of con attendees I go with. I won't bar one or two from going to the sake tasting, but I have warned them that if they over do it I will not stick around to hear their drunken blabbering stupidness. I have no patience for it and immediately shoot them down.

I did have someone once ask me out for drinks and I shot them down so fast with how alcohol ruins your life on so many different levels, they ran off speechless. And I didn't even need a single cuss word.

Have a drink every now and again, doesn't ruin your life. It's when you give into avarice and greed, that such things occur. I think that was my friend, that you ended up turning down. XD He was just looking for adults to go have a few drinks with at con, and have some fun. Nothing naughty, or anything like that.

[veraca]

That is exactly why I have a strict rule of no alcohol, cigarettes or drugs of any sort with my group of con attendees I go with. I won't bar one or two from going to the sake tasting, but I have warned them that if they over do it I will not stick around to hear their drunken blabbering stupidness. I have no patience for it and immediately shoot them down.

I did have someone once ask me out for drinks and I shot them down so fast with how alcohol ruins your life on so many different levels, they ran off speechless. And I didn't even need a single cuss word.

Have a drink every now and again, doesn't ruin your life. It's when you give into avarice and greed, that such things occur. I think that was my friend, that you ended up turning down. XD He was just looking for adults to go have a few drinks with at con, and have some fun. Nothing naughty, or anything like that.

lol no, I shot down someone at my college. Not at con. I don't see the point of drinking. I can have fun without it, so why do I "need" it? It's the whole "want" vs "need" argument, and no one has ever given me a good reason to drink. *shrug* Besides, I smelled it once and sneezed. No way am I drinking that junk.

[superjaz]

I am not anti alcohol, whoever wants to, cool as long as you know your limits and don't drive cool beans
I just rarely drink (even when I am not peggers which changed it to never drink right now), I do like the odd sip of a friends mixed drink or a special occasion trying a drink, or experimenting with cooking, but really it just makes me act like I do when am sleep deprived which is really dyslexic and I can do that for free, I would rather have a soda and true you don't need it to have fun, and its spendy.

That said besides the drunk in con space not okay.  It is not a good idea to drink at con.  It lowers your guard and while people you just meet seems nice,  you really don't know them well.

You might say, "well I will be with my friend who never drinks" Okay, do you trust them with your life?  Cuz that's what you would be doing.  And if your friend is drinking then they don't count.

[@random]

I may be in the minority, but I've never been down with the pedobear cosplays. I have always thought it crosses a line, especially for an event like Kumoricon. Every time I do see one, something in me wants to give 'em a knuckle sandwich, lol.

You're not in the minority at all. That's just not cool.

I know he wasn't at the "con" cause he didn't have a badge but the pedobear was hanging around ester shore park the whole weekend and would only "hug" little kids.  Sick. 

Wrt the first part, thank you for being observant. (^_^)

We can't do anything about stuff outside conspace - but if you ever do see someone in conspace without a badge, please bring it to the yojimbo's attention. At the very least, they will soon be back out of conspace.

[IrukaSensei]

I am not anti alcohol, whoever wants to, cool as long as you know your limits and don't drive cool beans
I just rarely drink (even when I am not peggers which changed it to never drink right now), I do like the odd sip of a friends mixed drink or a special occasion trying a drink, or experimenting with cooking, but really it just makes me act like I do when am sleep deprived which is really dyslexic and I can do that for free, I would rather have a soda and true you don't need it to have fun, and its spendy.

That said besides the drunk in con space not okay.  It is not a good idea to drink at con.  It lowers your guard and while people you just meet seems nice,  you really don't know them well.

You might say, "well I will be with my friend who never drinks" Okay, do you trust them with your life?  Cuz that's what you would be doing.  And if your friend is drinking then they don't count.

I don't drink unless I trust the people I'm around. I trust the people at con. I don't NEED it to be having fun, but I find it to be nice and spicy, but that's because it happens to make me loosen up and stop being a highly-guarded brat of a woman. XD But that's just me. I'm not prone to heavy drinking, because I'm generally afraid of getting sick. XD But a few drinks here and there, are perfectly fine to me. I'm not saying that people have to drink, saying that they don't have to be deathly afraid of anyone that does. XD

[Chromophobic]

@Drauska: That pedo-bear tried hugging me.... ._. It honestly did scare me alittle bit **yellowbadgeattendeehere** so I avoided the park after that..... *shudder*

[Drauska]

@Drauska: That pedo-bear tried hugging me.... ._. It honestly did scare me alittle bit **yellowbadgeattendeehere** so I avoided the park after that..... *shudder*

Well next time tell me and I will go have a word with it and his two "muscle" that was with him not to mess with my sister.

[Washougal_Otaku]

I may be in the minority, but I've never been down with the pedobear cosplays. I have always thought it crosses a line, especially for an event like Kumoricon. Every time I do see one, something in me wants to give 'em a knuckle sandwich, lol.

You and me both.

[otakunobody]

I may be in the minority, but I've never been down with the pedobear cosplays. I have always thought it crosses a line, especially for an event like Kumoricon. Every time I do see one, something in me wants to give 'em a knuckle sandwich, lol.

Quite frankly,the PedoBear freaked me out.Especially with the cosplay I wore all weekend and how often I was just hanging in the park by myself *Isalsoayellowbadgeattendee*

[Mog]

Pedobear cosplays are against Convention rules due to the meaning behind them. The fact there was one was pretty scary and I wasn't so happy with it myself. That's not something that should even been allowed on the streets. I'm all for the first amendment, but not when it supports costumes about pedophiles.

[superjaz]

I have always been proud that k-con has such a strict policy about that bear.
Because somethings you should just not joke about y'know?

[Mog]

I have always been proud that k-con has such a strict policy about that bear.
Because somethings you should just not joke about y'know?

I agree ;_; I get a horrified feeling when I see little kids run up to the "Fancy Bear" for a hug. A children's innocence is not something to mess with. D:

[Washougal_Otaku]

Well, there is no direct rule that states "No person shall cosplay as PedoBear," but is a rule that you can't cosplay as someone/thing that is offensive to the general public, and there's no way around the argument on whether or not PedoBear is offensive or not.  As for why anyone would cosplay as him at ANY convention is a mystery to me...

[Prinz Eugen]

If you compare it to contract law, it might make a little more sense... a contract is obviously invalid if one person forced the other to sign it at gunpoint. But it's just as invalid if one person uses the other's hand to sign it for them while they're unconscious, or if it's written in another language and the person who does understand what it means lies to the person who doesn't understand it.

That's a very good way to look at it, both logically and (perhaps) legally.

Our sherrif's office had some training that touched on this when I was volunteering. They way they put it was that even if the two parties express consent, the State as an agent may find an offense. (Sorta like how 'corporations are people too.' ) The People (of Washington or Oregon) decide, through their elected legislatures, that 'this is something we do not want to allow to happen in our society,' and the legislature enacts laws against it. So when it happens, the State will prosecute, which is why the trial will be called (Insert Creepy Person Surname) vs. State of Oregon. (Or whatever state.)

[JeffT]

Well, there is no direct rule that states "No person shall cosplay as PedoBear," but is a rule that you can't cosplay as someone/thing that is offensive to the general public, and there's no way around the argument on whether or not PedoBear is offensive or not.

This is a bit misleading. In fact, we made a stand-alone rule that you can't cosplay as pedobear, and it is not meant to be merely an interpretation of some other rule. (It doesn't need to be given undeserved attention by listing it in the policies. It's a special case, and those who have the forethought to plan out such an extreme costume with such a specific reputation (which, by the way, has no relation to either anime or any other close fandom) either know, or should know, that the onus is on them to make sure in advance it is ok. Therefore, there is no unfairness in requiring them to remove the costume without prior advertised notice.)

Our sherrif's office had some training that touched on this when I was volunteering. They way they put it was that even if the two parties express consent, the State as an agent may find an offense. (Sorta like how 'corporations are people too.' ) The People (of Washington or Oregon) decide, through their elected legislatures, that 'this is something we do not want to allow to happen in our society,' and the legislature enacts laws against it. So when it happens, the State will prosecute, which is why the trial will be called (Insert Creepy Person Surname) vs. State of Oregon. (Or whatever state.)

I think you are describing the difference between civil and criminal law. Something that I wish more people were aware of.

[Washougal_Otaku]

Um... okay... that's not the way that Beau made it out to be.  Either way, there's no logic in being Pedobear at a family-friendly anime convention.  It surprises (and disgusts) me that someone would actually plan on doing so.

[IrukaSensei]

Sometimes people lose bets. Sometimes they have to do things they don't like. But we all take risks when we are members of /b/. That is all I have to say on the pedobear situation.

[JeffT]

Um... okay... that's not the way that Beau made it out to be.

To clarify my previous post, I'm saying we haven't just banned any costume that might offend someone. We specifically have banned pedobear, and have specifically not banned some other costumes when the question has arisen.

Sometimes people lose bets. Sometimes they have to do things they don't like. But we all take risks when we are members of /b/. That is all I have to say on the pedobear situation.

Not sure what this has to do with this topic. The bottom line is when you attend Kumoricon, you follow its rules.

[Washougal_Otaku]

Okay, then.  That's not what's been said before, but if it's official, awesome.

[JeffT]

Okay, then.  That's not what's been said before, but if it's official, awesome.

I'm not so sure. The example I had in mind is that some costumes have swastikas because they do in the anime. We have decided against banning these, even though they might offend. We are prepared to ask these attendees to not flaunt these elements of their costumes and to be discreet if they are aware somebody takes offense in their vicinity, but the costumes are allowed. I do know that the specific decision on pedobear has been in place for at least 3 years.

[IrukaSensei]

The Pedobear cosplay, I know for a fact that a member of 4-Chan's /b/ group lost a bet, and was dared to go to Kumo as Pedobear. So yeah, sometimes it's just some unlucky smuck in that costume, that never intended to be there. I actually talked to him, he was a chill guy, and wasn't a pedo. He did understand the rule, when I talked to him, and respected that he couldn't be in the convention.

You know the old saying? Don't judge a book by it's cover? Yeah, just cause someones dressed as pedobear, doesn't meant they are  a pervert.

[Titus_Love_Doll]

I will agree with you he was very sweet gentalmen, And i feel bad he had to wear it but he was a good guy and took photos and made himself look very high class for pedobear normally when i see a pedobear costume they not in clothing and sometimes I wish they would so they just look like a weird teddybear in clothing. but its the face. anyways  The whole book by the cover i go with becuse some people can look nice and you think then they can talk about behind your back or make fun of your cosplay and others people talk so bad about when they are really sweethearts and Brats. I meet alot of brats and sweet hearts this year and i enjoy them all even some rude comments on how i was to fat for my own cosplay. oh well fat FTW.!

But being on guard at con every need to remeber this is an OPEN space anything can happen down to weirdos who are sexually herassing you to rude and curl people down to sweet hearts and punk. Not everyone is a bad person and not all people are dumb and dont know when someone is unconfable with what their wearing. I can under stand the whole banning of comtumes but Some of the bands i heard people wanting is alittle over the top pedobear is very understandable it can make parents and underage people unconfable. I heard that chibi sora started crying becuse a homeless man made him unconfable and a conparent delt with the issue.

But even con goings themselve are not all good people Being on guard even means with the other con attendies. There can be theft.! and even worse. YOU should never room with someone you have never meet before for your own safty. you should always have atlest one friend with you when walking back to your hotel even in the day time. Night time always tell people were you are going if they are friends or in a group there are people out there who will kidnapp a girl for wearing a Bikinistip short short red hair and a big gun  there was many times I watched men stare at minors and not KNOW they were. at times I wish miniors would understand that some costumes they wear need to be age apporperet for them.

I love con very much and there are times were i let my guard down and I end up getting in fights or things get stolen or I hear comments from other people that make me angery. As an example I am on guard at all times becuse I have a touching issue and when glomped from behind I will turn and knee or elbow that person out of a fear from this phobia. At con i am gettign much better at being close to others and getting hugs but its very hard to see someone get hurt become they run up behind me and hug me and i dont know who they are were they came from all i know is that they are touching me and wont let go -elbow to face or chest- I ve had to say sorry to many people due to this. At con ive had things taken from me right infront of my eyes that is why with photos my things are always infront of me. never behind me or to the side. and rude comments from other people you just have to bite your tounge and ignore it.



(Sorry if this is confusing its kinda of my output of what i thing and being on guard things my writing is aful becuse I tend to mix up words and things I dubble read it but if it is confusing ill edit it agaian till i got it right )

[Washougal_Otaku]

The Pedobear cosplay, I know for a fact that a member of 4-Chan's /b/ group lost a bet, and was dared to go to Kumo as Pedobear. So yeah, sometimes it's just some unlucky smuck in that costume, that never intended to be there. I actually talked to him, he was a chill guy, and wasn't a pedo. He did understand the rule, when I talked to him, and respected that he couldn't be in the convention.

You know the old saying? Don't judge a book by it's cover? Yeah, just cause someones dressed as pedobear, doesn't meant they are  a pervert.

Sorry, but I see that as a poor excuse.  He didn't have to make the bet, and he could have made it something that would have still been acceptable.

[IrukaSensei]

The Pedobear cosplay, I know for a fact that a member of 4-Chan's /b/ group lost a bet, and was dared to go to Kumo as Pedobear. So yeah, sometimes it's just some unlucky smuck in that costume, that never intended to be there. I actually talked to him, he was a chill guy, and wasn't a pedo. He did understand the rule, when I talked to him, and respected that he couldn't be in the convention.

You know the old saying? Don't judge a book by it's cover? Yeah, just cause someones dressed as pedobear, doesn't meant they are  a pervert.

Sorry, but I see that as a poor excuse.  He didn't have to make the bet, and he could have made it something that would have still been acceptable.

He's a lot like me. When you make a vow to take a bet, that is within your ability to do so, you do it to the best of your ability. Don't judge someone based on their costume, is what I'm saying. Like for instance, believing someone is nothing but an idiot - just cause they cosplay Naruto. Or believing someones a sugar glutton, cause they are dressed up as Sailor Moon.

[JeffT]

This message is me speaking personally, not as moderator or Kumoricon staff.

Sorry, but I see that as a poor excuse.  He didn't have to make the bet, and he could have made it something that would have still been acceptable.

He's a lot like me. When you make a vow to take a bet, that is within your ability to do so, you do it to the best of your ability.

Aaron's post addressed the appropriateness of making the bet, and had nothing to do with reneging on an obligation.

Don't judge someone based on their costume, is what I'm saying. Like for instance, believing someone is nothing but an idiot - just cause they cosplay Naruto. Or believing someones a sugar glutton, cause they are dressed up as Sailor Moon.

Your examples are nothing like the pedobear example. Your examples are arguing against judging based on flimsy assumptions that stereotypes hold true.

Judging somebody based on a pedobear costume is responding to the explicit message that they have chosen to adopt.

[Lady Locust]

Okay so... I understand the pedobear guy was a good guy, and not a pedo. But it's still against Kcon rules. So no matter the circumstance, he can't be pedobear within the con-space. It doesn't matter if he absolutely hates pedophiles, if he lost a bet, if he didn't know about the rule, whatever. The costume is considered offensive to most people and is not allowed at the convention.
/endrant