Author Topic: say ALMOST anything we want about politics  (Read 321960 times)

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Offline @random

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say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« on: April 13, 2011, 06:55:02 am »
Want to rant about those evil <insert party you oppose>s?
Or about how <insert platform of party you oppose> is going to destroy the country?
Or even how <insert law you oppose> is the worst idea since someone joked with Fred Phelps about how his family was so big they could start their own church?

This is the place to do so... just don't forget that the forum code of conduct says, in part:

Be courteous to other users
Keep discussion friendly and civil, and keep discussion focused on the issue rather than the person.
No personal attacks or speculating about another person's motives. Minimize discussion of off-forum personal disputes.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2011, 09:01:53 am by randompvg »
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Offline jaybug

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2011, 04:03:08 pm »
The president's speech about cutting debt and a "debt failsafe" is about as good an idea as Al Gore's "lockbox" for Social Security. Sounds nice, but they will never become reality.

Soak the rich, you mean like with the AMT (Alternative Minimum Tax)? That hits more middle class people every year as congress only "patches" it, not fixes it, or amends it to reflect reality.

How about people stop keeping up with the Jones, so that they had money to invest instead of only buying stuff. Okay beer and stuff. Anyone realize how much interest people pay every month, money that could make them wealthy instead of living hand to mouth, paycheck to paycheck?

The president has called upon class warfare, as he has no real idea as to what to do. It may make people angry, but it doesn't stop people from spending their money like drunken sailors. Drunken sailors with credit cards and home equity lines of credit.

I haven't read Paul Ryan's budget proposal yet. I am sure there are things I will not like. There are things from the Deficit Commission Report I do not like. I would prefer to just take the Deficit Commission Report and make it law, but... I know better than that will happen.

Thanks randompvg.
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Offline MiriaRose

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2011, 06:47:10 pm »
Thank you for this, so much. Another person and I were discussing making one of these threads, and I'm glad a mod did it instead.  :)

NEWSFLASH, REPUBLICANS. Shutting down the government will hurt the economy, as will passing all the stuff you want passed. You know why? Because the government is investing so much right now that if it suddenly stops, investors will lose confidence. So they won't spend. So companies don't get money. The public will lose confidence and won't spend.

Nobody spending = economy crashes

As for why government spending is good in a recession:
GDP is made up of consumer spending, business spending, and government spending. Here's a nifty equation:
GDP = C + B + G

In a recession, C and B become very low very fast. So you know who needs to pick up the pace? G! Government! That is why government spending is good.

Government spending is also very, very important right now. The private sector is sitting on trillions of dollars right now. They're not spending all of it because they don't have confidence. You know what will give them confidence?

The government investing in the economy.

AS FOR DEBT:
We do not need to get out of debt. That is not a concern. HOWEVER, we do not want to be in deficit. Debt is how much money you owe overall, deficit is when you are borrowing more money than you make. We want to be in a surplus, not a deficit, so that we can pay off everyone we owe money to (such as the Chinese and the Japanese).
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Offline jaybug

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2011, 08:30:40 pm »
One; the government didn't shut down. Two; GOP members do not want to shut down the government, maybe abolish it, but not shut it down. If that makes sense to you, that's makes one of us. (Sometimes it's hard for me to know conservatives from anarchistic pirates)

Three; just spending money is not the right answer. You have to do more than just pay off your base to get the economy going again. Spending lots of money but having no jobs created, no jobs means the unemployment rate did not decline as was assured, does little more than burden US with debt.

As an example, NOW, the president wants to build high speed rail. He's allotted $9billion to the task. How far do you think that will go when Tri-Met the Portland bus company spends building light rail across town?

He killed NASA. You don't think aerospace workers took home good paychecks? That's a loss of a lot of living wage jobs.

Having this government go on a spending spree gives the market confidence all right. Confidence that government would be coming after them hammer and tongs with tax increases. Businesses know all about plans. Even state government requires a business to have a business plan before granting them a business license. The president and the previous congress had no plan. I can't quote Pelosi precisely, but the gist was, we need to pass the stimulus bill to know what is in the stimulus bill. WTF? And why were monies from the stimulus plan made available closer to this past November's election, than front loading them earlier so that jobs would be created sooner? And what does Acorn have to do with stimulating the economy?

In case you haven't watched Democrat mayor Michael Bloomberg's channel on TV, Wall Street is not exactly experiencing a crash. Someone is spending. Profits are doing as well as they have ever done. And generally the broader market is enjoying the same rise of all boats that the Dow component of 30 industrials is enjoying.

AIG paid off the government so they could go back to giving ridiculous bonuses out to the top tier of employees. Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac are still kicking, even though they are still riddled with problems. THe government keeps throwing money at them.

My suggestion for all who read this thread, is to read The Economist newspaper. Yes, we all know that it looks like a magazine. That's what they want to call it. It strives to hold to a rigid middle of the road position. They said so themselves. I say this, as they make better arguments than I do. And it's where I form many of my economic opinions.

And in case you are curious; I am not  Republican any longer. I finally realized that the Republicans I idolized as a child, are not the same people whom the conservatives idolize. Tom McCall and Theodore Roosevelt. You don't have to be a conservative to think the liberals are nuts.

And you don't have to be a Democrat to think the neo-cons are (I'm trying to think of a cute phrase for rabid piratical, you get the idea I hope)
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Offline Jinx

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2011, 10:06:45 pm »
ok so shutting down planed parenthood is probably the stupidest think I have heard in a long time, and thats saying something! first off all thats gonna do is lead to unwanted pregnantness.
20 years after abortion became legal in all 50 states the crime rate dropped a ton, GUESS WHY! the children walking around were suddenly WANTED.

I'm sorry but anyone wanting to cut funding from planed parenthood is freaking retarded... just sayin ^^

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Offline reppy

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2011, 11:00:29 am »
Abortion is a tricky topic.  I understand that regardless of whether or not it is legal people will still do it.  But it is an issue I struggle with whenever confronted because I feel that being "okay" with abortion as a form of birth control is not consistent with my values.  In cases of rape, I can understand why the mother would not want to have the child.  Yet, is it the child's fault that its father was a rapist? 

I know lots of people that say "It's my body and I will do with it as I please."  I disagree: your body belongs to the Earth, which is part of the universe, and when you are dead, your body will return to where it came.  Until then, it's merely on loan.  Be kind to it!

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Offline sandrobotticelli

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2011, 11:26:14 am »
^I agree it's a tricky subject and people are never going to agree about it.

I will say, however, that the Planned Parenthood is not just about abortion, which many people seem to forget. Planned Parenthood also gives contraceptives to couples who can't afford contraceptives, let alone a child, they help with sex education, especially among teens, and they also deal with sexual and reproductive health with a lot of research going towards sexually transmitted diseases, especially HIV.  They have also done a lot of awareness, check-ups, and research for breast and cervical cancer.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 11:29:18 am by sandrobotticelli »
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Offline jaybug

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2011, 04:22:31 pm »
So why can't Planned Parenthood be self-supporting? I haven't heard of any hospitals going broke. Instead of relying on federal funding, why not go non-profit, and never have to worry about money ever again? Pay the employees whatever they feel right, rather than pay according to federal guidelines. Provide whatever services they feel important, instead of following federal rules, which change whenever the party in the White House changes.

And to note, it got funded. It was part of the don't shut down the government package that passed last week.
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Offline Cyprus

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2011, 09:58:24 am »
Politics...lol
Politicians...LOL

Nuff said...

Offline MiriaRose

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2011, 09:37:46 pm »
I'm not even gonna touch abortion, because this is not the time or place.

I know people say that the Tea Party isn't racist, but how is it not racist when you deny the genocide of Native Americans? How is it not racist when you scream at a Middle Eastern-looking boy "ARAB!" or "SON OF ALLAH!" How is it not racist when you throw your sign back towards the "brown" people when foreign invaders are mentioned? One of their leaders apologized to how we were treated (it wasn't just racism, it was also sexism, ageism, classism, ect) but if most of the teabaggers are like that- and they seem to be, at least in Douglas County- then how is the Tea Party not racist?
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Offline @random

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2011, 05:32:35 am »
Just my random thoughts on the matter, but... every organization is made up of people. Within even the most extreme organizations, there's variance. Being a member of Westboro Baptist doesn't necessarily mean you're inclined to scream horrible things at mourners, and being a member of the KKK doesn't necessarily mean you want to terrorize people for their race. (On the other side, even the most tolerant organizations are guaranteed to have a bigot lurking somewhere in the wings.) In the same vein, the presence of even a significant minority of people whose actions are racist doesn't mean the organization is racist... every group has their fringe, and it's unfair (and intellectually dishonest) to judge a group by their most repulsive members.

What matters is their message. If it includes prejudicial overtones (i.e. "all Muslims want to kill people") and errantly-nativist overtones ("all these farrners oughta go back where they came from", which I suspect the Cherokee would agree with) which are not repudiated both from the top and by the majority of the rank-and-file, it's probably fair to call them racist. But getting an open admission of it is never going to happen. In the same way that "racist" has become a generic insult of opportunity synonymous with "wrong" (I kid you not, I've heard pit bull fanciers describe leash laws for pit bulls as "racist"), people will automatically defend an organization they like as "not racist" without stopping to consider whether it might be accurate.

~~~~

Edit: To comment on an assertion I just noticed, that Bloomberg is a Democrat - he's not. He is indeed liberal on some issues, but he ran for his first office (NYC mayor) as a Republican and switched from Republican to independent in 2007. But I think the Observer put it best when they said "Mr. Bloomberg isn't a Democrat, or a Republican, or an independent. He's 18 billion dollars. That's his party, his ideology and his intellectual commitment."
« Last Edit: April 16, 2011, 06:10:50 am by randompvg »
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Offline jaybug

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2011, 04:52:22 pm »
Well, Bloomberg was a Democrat, until the primary election, when he switched to GOP, in order to get to the general election, wherein he won, handily.

I think Rudy was a better mayor. Not a better man.

Gold set a record high. Silver is trading at $42 per ounce. Gas is nearing $4/gallon. And these are signs we are on track? And so what if the Dow Industrial Average is doing great, and the NASDAQ 100. People are still hosed over in their retirement funds. Both parties suck wind on that subject. Let the individual investor vote his shares. Maybe we won't have overly compensated executives. Or bonuses paid to employees for failure, and needing government bailouts.

How to end abortions. Make the "father" of the fetus watch the abortion procedure.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2011, 05:00:56 pm by jaybug »
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Offline reppy

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2011, 08:16:24 pm »
How to end abortions. Make the "father" of the fetus watch the abortion procedure.

There's a documentary/whatever by the director of American History X, I believe it is called "Ring of Fire", that shows video footage of an actual abortion.  I've been meaning to watch the documentary since it seems interesting, but I would have to skip past that part of the video.

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Offline jaybug

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2011, 09:08:15 pm »
Yeah, try doing that, and find out you hit the skip button just a second too late, and have that burning in your memory for life. Well, not the fetus' life.
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Offline soundninja12

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2011, 12:03:06 am »
Michelle Bachmann is a nutter.
A homophobic, prejudice, scary, stupid nutter.

I just had to say it
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Offline Gryffinclaw Princess

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2011, 12:26:42 am »
A man running for mayor in Kennewick (One of the Tri-Cities [it's the area I live in...but I live in Pasco]) is putting his foot down on Illegal Immigration. One of his stances is that Illegals should be shot on sight when crossing the border! Also, if they refuse to leave Kennewick they should face the death penalty. I'm curious how this will go since 75% or more of my graduating class was Hispanic and I know most of them were illegal. One girl in my drama class got her citizenship her senior year of high school (my sophomore year) and she had been in America illegally since she was 5.

So...let's see how long until he washes up on the shore of the Columbia or maybe a new light will shine in the Tri-Cities...who knows. I find it very interesting though that someone has finally come out about it in this area.

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Offline Chibachi Nero

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2011, 06:08:33 pm »
Okay, I'm gonna be stupid and bring up the abortion thing again, because it's something I feel strongly about and I've put a lot of thought into my stance on it. On the one hand, I am against abortion on general principle. I would never want to get an abortion, and I wouldn't encourage anyone else to. In certain circumstances (such as rape or when having the child poses serious health risks to the mother) I can accept it, but for the most part, I'm against it, especially when people use it as their sole form of contraception.

But on the other hand, I wholeheartedly support its legalisation. Just because I have a problem with it doesn't mean everyone else shares my opinion, and I think it should be up to the parents (and, ultimately, the mother) whether or not to keep the baby. I believe that the pregnant woman in question should be the one who decides, and that the right to choose is an important one to protect.

We should educate people on contraceptives and make sure that they're available to anyone who needs them, which will help to cut down on unwanted pregnancies. We should encourage adoption instead of abortion. But in the end, women should have the option to abort if they feel they need to.

Offline jaqua

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2011, 04:08:19 pm »
I'm going to put in my two cents about abortion as well, since it's also a topic I feel pretty strongly about. I am a very firm supporter of abortion being legal and easily accessible for everyone who needs it. And really, whenever anyone says, "But this is a child!" I can only say no, this is not a child, it is a mass of cells that are vaguely human-shaped, being kept alive mostly because of the body it's existing inside of. Certainly it may feel an amount of pain or discomfort while being terminated, but surely that pain is less than, say, an adult cow in a slaughterhouse being murdered for its meat and hide, and I'm sure I can guarantee that its life to that point has been more enjoyable. If people are going to be so staunch about protecting life, why not fight for the rights of animals, who are commonly treated cruelly and then slaughtered painfully every minute of every day? A fetus floating around in a warm, dark, comparatively quiet world has very little to be complaining about. It hasn't had a chance to experience life, and even if it developed in a way that allowed it to see the world, its brain isn't developed enough to appreciate it. There are organisms in the world much more deserving of this defense.

Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2011, 07:42:22 pm »
^ I would disagree with that statement 100%.  It is a child.  It is not a part of the mother.  It is not a parasite.  It is not an alien.  It is a child.  Recent studies have shown that a fetus can feel pain as early as seven or eight weeks after being conceived.

http://www.abortionfacts.com/online_books/love_them_both/why_cant_we_love_them_both_14.asp#By%208%20weeks?%20Show%20me!

Here's a disturbing video done of an abortion done on a 12 week old.  (Part 3 is the disturbing one out of them).

http://scottthong.wordpress.com/2009/03/11/the-silent-scream-ultrasound-video-of-a-baby-being-brutally-aborted/

Though I can see where you're coming form with wanting to compare an abortion to the slaughtering of a cow, but it's a flawed argument.  We don't eat the babies, for one.  How many women are told of all of the risks that are related to an abortion?  Even the woman who represented toe Roe side of Roe vs. Wade feels that she didn't know all of the hazards, and has now become a voice for pro life.

http://www.nysun.com/editorials/roes-regrets/77677/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norma_McCorvey#Later_life

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_MUUvcvjEg

I'll agree that the option should be out there, but there needs to be more efforts to educate the women who are considering it.
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Offline jaqua

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2011, 08:29:58 pm »
^ I should have clarified that while I'm 100% for abortion being legal and available, I don't think it's something that should be taken lightly, nor is it something that should be used as a primary form of birth control (though I'm sure most women who have had an abortion will tell you that they are not pleasant experiences and they wouldn't want to get one again if it could be avoided-- my mother had an abortion before she had me, and she said that while she doesn't regret it, it was a very painful and unpleasant procedure that she would prefer never to have to repeat). The terminating of a life is a horrible thing that should be absolutely avoided wherever possible.

My main problem with people who are 100% pro-life and anti-abortion is that a majority of them (not all, of course, but from what I've observed, a startling number) apply this defense for life only to the species homo sapiens, which is just appallingly wrong on so many moral levels to me. If you're going to advocate protection of life it needs to be toward all species, and not just toward your own. That's not pro-life, that's pro-human life, which is completely different and in my opinion abhorrently selfish and self-righteous.

I don't really understand what not eating babies has to do with your counter-argument, though. If we did, would abortion then be okay (or at least, more okay), since they were being killed as a source of food? However, I do absolutely agree with your statement of educating women considering it. Birth control in the form of condoms, the pill, intrauterine devices, etc should be stressed as being far superior and preferable to waiting until you're pregnant and settling for an abortion.

Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2011, 08:40:59 pm »
Okay.  I see where you were going with that now.  My apologies.

However, I will disagree with you about the protection of life in "all its forms."  There is nothing wrong with the concept of the meat industry.  I, for one, enjoy eating the flesh of another animal.  I am an animal, myself.  Various species eat the meat of other animals, some even consume the flesh of their own kind.

I will agree that many (though I don't know how many) should do more to have their animals live life before it's there time.  Not only would it appear to be more humane, but it also effects the flavoring of these animals for the better.
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Offline jaqua

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2011, 12:25:01 am »
No problem!

I'll agree somewhat that the concept of the meat industry is okay, but there are many things wrong with the meat industry itself, mainly in the way its animals are treated before their death. They're kept in cages far too small for them, fed things you wouldn't feed your worst enemy-- chickens, especially, are frequently underfed, and resort to cannibalism in order to stay alive, all while stuffed into cages just large enough to stand partially upright and maybe turn in a small circle, which are rarely (if ever) cleaned. Not to mention the fact that these cages are usually stacked on each other so that the feces of one chicken falls onto the one beneath it. They are then left in dark, overcrowded, unventilated warehouses until they're needed for food. Cows and pigs often suffer similar treatment, and cows are also treated poorly when it comes to the dairy industry. Cows need to have had a calf recently to be at a prime milk-producing state, and commonly have their (newborn) calves taken from them, and sometimes never see them again, since calves are taken away to make veal, which is possibly one of the cruelest foods invented.

... This isn't really about abortion anymore, now I'm just ranting about my views on animal abuse. Oops.

I'm gonna clarify (I like to clarify) that I eat meat, and dairy, and I'm all for people eating what they want to eat; however, I feel people should be more conscious of the food they're eating and where it came from, and of making sure that the animal they're eating had a good life and weren't mistreated and abused. A good general rule is if you wouldn't let your cat, or dog, or bird, or lizard, or whatever live in the conditions your meal was raised in, you probably shouldn't be supporting the company supplying it.

Offline Chibachi Nero

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2011, 12:40:19 am »
^ I agree with basically everything above. It's fine and natural to consume meat and dairy, but there's no excuse for treating the animals horribly.

And re: abortion, I have to disagree with you Washu. At the age the vast majority of fetuses are aborted, they are not able to survive outside of their mother (essentially making them a parasite) and, while they do have some capacity to feel pain, I do not believe that they count yet as human beings. Late term abortions are another thing, which I am 100% against except in the most extenuating of circumstances, where having the baby could cause serious harm or death to the mother, because at that point the baby is much more developed, and often would be able to survive outside the mother (think preemies). But I believe that the distinction should be made.

Offline jaqua

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2011, 01:18:58 am »
^ Yes yes yes, exactly all of that.

Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2011, 08:45:29 pm »
1. Okay folks I'm a moderate Democrat but I have to get my 2 cents uin here. I agree with Jaybug to a pint in that i think Liberals are TS, but then again i think a lot of ultra-conservatives are NUTS. Over the course of the last 3 or 4 decades political vitriol has slowly been poisoning in this country setting up and us against them mentality which i think is NUTS! He have to remember that in the end we are all Americans. And while things maybe bad now now we WILL get out of this mess. The United States of America is the greatest ccountry in the world. If the good people on the Kumoricon staff will please pardon my language but...it will be a cold day in hell before we're taken down by anyone or anything. There are problems. Barack Obama in my personal opinion has proven without a doubt to have a competentcy level that makes Geoge H.W. Bush and Jimmy Carter's administrations look like models of efficiency. But we will get through this so we have to keep our chins up.

2. Let's face it folks we got some SERIOUS problems in this country. We have to secure our borders, we have to get jobs of the industrial grade back into this country, and a lot of these unnecessary regulations have GOT to go. Don't get me wrong regulation can be a good thing. It keeps the industrial and corporate gangsters from running amuck. But too much regulation and creativity and progress get stifled. And now more than ever we need creativity. And Barack Obama just doesn't get that. What we need in the White House is a moderate Repblican or Democrat who can in the words of Larry the Canle Guy "Get er' done." Because now is not the time for ideology, now is the time for practiciality.

Thank you for this wonderful thread on politics where civility reigns. In the world of politics this is a breath of fresh air.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2011, 07:14:00 am by Animeman73 »
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Offline GregAtlas

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2011, 01:25:12 am »
I hope we can get back to the constitution myself. I'm tired of our federal government and especially certain state governments passing laws and bills that restrict, twist, and in some cases nullify the constitution which I believe is the core of what the USA is based on. I would like it if George Washington or Abraham Lincoln could see how things are going in our "modern" era and be proud but I doubt that is the case as we stand now. It can get worse though...
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Offline @random

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2011, 07:07:56 am »
What we need in the White is a moderate Repblican or Democrat who can in the words of Larry the Canle Guy "Get er' done." Because now is not the time for ideology, now is the time for practiciality.

Question: How is either party supposed to simply "Get 'er done" if one party votes/filibusters in unison against anything the other party proposes? That's pretty much what we've been seeing happen.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2011, 07:43:34 am by @random »
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Offline TomtheFanboy

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2011, 11:20:01 am »
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Offline Chibachi Nero

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2011, 04:36:26 pm »
What we need in the White is a moderate Repblican or Democrat who can in the words of Larry the Canle Guy "Get er' done." Because now is not the time for ideology, now is the time for practiciality.

Question: How is either party supposed to simply "Get 'er done" if one party votes/filibusters in unison against anything the other party proposes? That's pretty much what we've been seeing happen.

Uuuugh thisthisthis. This is what pisses me off about American politics right now. The idea of two parties views is a good one, in that it ensures that at least two opposing views can be heard. But it seems like lately, instead of trying to reach a compromise that suits everyone to some degree all the parties are interested in is saying the opposite of what the other party is saying. The parties should be a way to foster debate and come up with the best possible solution, but instead I'm wondering if we should just send everyone back to kndergarten, because they seem to have forgotten how to share and compromise.

Offline dark4ever

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2011, 07:23:58 pm »
The two things I feel really strongly about: Abortion and Gay Marriage

Since my views have been said on abortion (everything Chibachi Nero has said so far) my very basic views on gay marriage.

I was raised christian and always have been, but I guess the one thing that really stuck with me was acceptance. My view is very simple: If you don't like gay marriage, don't get one. Just because I'm straight doesn't mean my friends who are gay or bi shouldn't be allowed to get married. If people want to use the religion card, I'll come right back at them with a few arguments
1. They choose to be gay? Yeah, like someone chooses to be allergic to something or to be tall or brunette.
2. The bible tells you it's wrong? It also says it's okay to sell your daughter into slavery, stone people who work on sundays and to impregnate a hooker instead of masturbate
3. They can't have babies? Well, so can't women who are infertile, rather by choice, age or not. Oh, and to lay on the guilt? Girls who were raped. Usually they never even get their periods because of the damage.
4. They'll abandon kids, which is wrong? So, you can't be single and have a kid? Oh, and most of those kids were abandoned by irresponsible straight people.

Most of this was taken from (or just voiced by) this video- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQmprNdamNg&list=FLWVtZHHYBKbjZNW75NO8ZUQ&index=85
(WARNING: LOTS AND LOTS OF F BOMBS IN THE VIDEO)
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Offline GregAtlas

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2011, 03:09:32 am »
O.o what version of the Bible are you getting that from? Sounds like a lot of twisting of words there.
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Offline jaqua

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2011, 05:39:52 am »
Dude, there's lots of bad stuff in the bible. Give Deuteronomy a read, it's definitely... interesting.

Offline dark4ever

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2011, 10:20:51 am »
We've actually studied parts that are no longer applicable in church. I wish I could give you the verses, I really do, but I don't have the paper with me (It got left at home- didn't think I'd need it).
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Offline jaqua

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2011, 01:25:08 pm »

Offline dark4ever

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #34 on: October 20, 2011, 10:18:19 am »
Oh my god, that makes me laugh xD
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Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #35 on: October 29, 2011, 09:00:28 pm »
Well!

I've been in a nutrition hype lately, I could go on and on about the evil of the USDA and it's direct contribution to the obesity/diabetes epidemic.

I recently have become a very strong supporter of Ron Paul. One thing that really irritates me is when people make statements like, "He'll never win the presidency" or "He's a nut". I think these kinds of statements are a direct reflection of the media's power. When the media tells you that there are WMDs in Iraq, they must be there, right? We all know how that went down.

So if the media says he can't win, that must be the case!

Ron Paul is easily the most consistent, most educated candidate, and he is the only one who can beat Obama in 2012. I'm not a particular fan of either the Democrats or Republicans (in fact, I would rather have Obama as president than any of the Republican candidates other than Ron Paul).

If Ron Paul does not gain the Republican nomination in 2012, mark my words: Obama will be the next president.

He is easily the top third (probably second) contender for the Republican nomination, but because he has been blacked out, made fun of, and outright ignored, the people are led to think he cannot win. You should look up the polls if you don't believe me. The establishment is afraid of him. When the media is telling you "no", this is the time to question why. This is exactly like what happened with Kucinich in 08. But Ron Paul has been gaining steam and he IS in the top tier, despite what the media says.

Ron Paul supports alternative medicine (he himself is an MD) and believes that people should have the right to drink raw milk. I know this seems minor, but as I stated above, the USDA has been the prime facilitator in perpetuating the obesity epidemic. Go to www.mercola.com and read about the things Americans have been putting into their bodies.

Anyway, this is my two cents on politics. I know I'm going to get some negative reactions, but bring it on, I guess.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2011, 09:01:11 pm by HalcyonFour »
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Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #36 on: October 29, 2011, 09:26:35 pm »
You're entitiled to your opinion HalcyonFour and i respect them. But with all due respect i disgree.


There's no doubt Obama has botched this agenda real bad. He didn't start the bleeding but he has made it worse with his ideoplogical agenda. I'm actuually hoping for either Mitt Romney or herman Cain to get it. Ron paul has some interesting ideas but he also has a lot of idea which economically and internationally would be disastrous for this country. I do however believe whoeevr becoomes president should hire Newt gingrich as a political advisor as the man has some good ideas that would work ecoonomically.

And lets face it folks Obama is proving to be his own worst enemy at the rate he's alienating everyone there's no way he'll be president for another four years. it's just simply not happening.

I also believe this. I think the PC parents groups and politicians need to get out of "Working to contain violence on T.V." Because these days they're actually doing more harm then good. If the parents and politcal fgroup want to curtail violence stop blaming T.V., movies, and video games and take more active role in their own kids' lives in teaching them good values. It's a little something called responsibility. And more importantly parents should talk to their kids about what they watch, again that's responsibility, and it's also a means of opening communication with their kids.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2011, 01:20:34 pm by Animeman73 »
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Offline GregAtlas

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #37 on: October 29, 2011, 09:45:01 pm »
I have not looked into who is running or not so personally I have no clue who those people are. I doubt Obama will get another term though, especially after operation fast and furious, which of course is receiving almost no media coverage.

That is a good point about the milk thing and I was surprised to find out a few years ago it was illegal to buy/sell unpasteurized (real) milk. I'm even more surprised on how Obama was trying to push that bill that would make it so nobody can grow their own garden anymore because you had to buy and use USDA approved fertilizer and pesticides. It is no wonder auto-immune disorders are so rampant these days...

I say I am surprised when I really shouldn't be...
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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #38 on: October 29, 2011, 10:52:11 pm »
Ron Paul supports alternative medicine (he himself is an MD) and believes that people should have the right to drink raw milk. I know this seems minor, but as I stated above, the USDA has been the prime facilitator in perpetuating the obesity epidemic. Go to www.mercola.com and read about the things Americans have been putting into their bodies.

Anyway, this is my two cents on politics. I know I'm going to get some negative reactions, but bring it on, I guess.

I get the daily Mercola newsletter.  xD  I don't really like how everything is overhyped so much, but there is some very good info on it.

I think it's ridiculous that people cannot sell unpasteurized milk across state lines. Afaik, it's legal as long as it's in your state. Or am I wrong? :0

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Offline GregAtlas

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #39 on: October 29, 2011, 11:01:01 pm »
Ever seen unpasteurized milk in a store? Whole Foods would have it if it were possible.
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Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #40 on: October 30, 2011, 12:09:46 am »
You're entitiled to your opinion HalcyonFour and i respect them. But with all due respect i disgree.


 Ron paul has some interesting ideas but he also has a lot of idea which economically and internationally would be disastrous for this country. I do however believe whoeevr becoomes president should hire Newt gingrich as a political advisor as the man has some good ideas that would work ecoonomically.

I also believe this. I think the PC parents groups and politicians need to get out of "Working to contain violence on T.V." Because these days they're actually doing more harm then good. If the parents and politcal fgroup want to curtail violence stop blaming T.V., movies, and video games and take more active role in their own kids' lives in teaching them good values. It's a little something called responsibility. ANd more importantly parents should talk to their kids about what they watch, again that's responsibility, and it's also a means of opening ccommunication with their kids.


I find it very interesting that you believe this. It suggests that you would disagree with general censorship. Do you know that Ron Paul is one of the few (if any) politicians who has consistently advocated against the FCC, repeatedly defending our First Amendment rights? You can find his views on the matter here: http://libertymaven.com/2007/05/23/ron-paul-on-censorship-and-first-amendment/36/

As far as his suggestions being internationally and economically disastrous, I would beg to differ. He is the only candidate who has endorsed a plan to cut taxes AND cut spending. Do you know how economic policy has traditionally played out? Cut taxes and INCREASE spending...that is, create more debt with money we don't have. Most politicians bow to corporate interests; they are bought and sold, and no matter what they tell the people, they answer to a very specific authority. The same thing will happen (i.e., cut taxes, increase spending) if anyone BUT Ron Paul gets elected to the presidency. He refuses to participate in the Congressional pension system, returns a portion of his salary back to the U.S. Treasury every month, and is a champion for individual rights. 

You're right. Obama has done a lousy job, but unless we get someone like Kucinich or Nader, or of course Paul, the same thing will continue to happen.

And as far as foreign policy is concerned, I believe that his is the sanest. Do you have any idea about Middle Eastern politics? OMG, they are soooo sick and tired of U.S. intervention, and there is a real threat that they will no longer bow to U.S. whims. First the U.S. targets Al Qaeda and then places them in power. What is going on here?!  Dr. Paul's policy is to refrain from these types of tactics and to quit policing the world. Unless you agree with the philosophy that policing the world is the type of policy that the U.S. should be pursuing, I frankly don't understand how his policies can be disastrous. So please clarify what you mean by that.

 
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Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #41 on: October 30, 2011, 12:14:11 am »
I have not looked into who is running or not so personally I have no clue who those people are. I doubt Obama will get another term though, especially after operation fast and furious, which of course is receiving almost no media coverage.

That is a good point about the milk thing and I was surprised to find out a few years ago it was illegal to buy/sell unpasteurized (real) milk. I'm even more surprised on how Obama was trying to push that bill that would make it so nobody can grow their own garden anymore because you had to buy and use USDA approved fertilizer and pesticides. It is no wonder auto-immune disorders are so rampant these days...

I say I am surprised when I really shouldn't be...

Oh MY GOSH, I did not know this!!!

Have you heard about the suicide seed? Look it up, it's being developed by Monsanto. It's the scariest thing in the world; it's basically looking to create a form of plants that will produce sterile seed. This means that farmers won't even be able to save their seed if they wanted to. Can you imagine what will happen if these "suicide seeds" contaminate with normal crops?!

He who controls the food supply controls the world...
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Offline reppy

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #42 on: October 30, 2011, 12:17:24 am »
I have not looked into who is running or not so personally I have no clue who those people are. I doubt Obama will get another term though, especially after operation fast and furious, which of course is receiving almost no media coverage.

That is a good point about the milk thing and I was surprised to find out a few years ago it was illegal to buy/sell unpasteurized (real) milk. I'm even more surprised on how Obama was trying to push that bill that would make it so nobody can grow their own garden anymore because you had to buy and use USDA approved fertilizer and pesticides. It is no wonder auto-immune disorders are so rampant these days...

I say I am surprised when I really shouldn't be...

Oh MY GOSH, I did not know this!!!

Have you heard about the suicide seed? Look it up, it's being developed by Monsanto. It's the scariest thing in the world; it's basically looking to create a form of plants that will produce sterile seed. This means that farmers won't even be able to save their seed if they wanted to. Can you imagine what will happen if these "suicide seeds" contaminate with normal crops?!

He who controls the food supply controls the world...

I've heard of this before.  It is honestly one of the most disgusting, inhumane, selfish things I have ever heard in my life. Greed at its worst.

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Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #43 on: October 30, 2011, 12:18:58 am »
Ron Paul supports alternative medicine (he himself is an MD) and believes that people should have the right to drink raw milk. I know this seems minor, but as I stated above, the USDA has been the prime facilitator in perpetuating the obesity epidemic. Go to www.mercola.com and read about the things Americans have been putting into their bodies.

Anyway, this is my two cents on politics. I know I'm going to get some negative reactions, but bring it on, I guess.

I get the daily Mercola newsletter.  xD  I don't really like how everything is overhyped so much, but there is some very good info on it.

I think it's ridiculous that people cannot sell unpasteurized milk across state lines. Afaik, it's legal as long as it's in your state. Or am I wrong? :0

I know, and it's kind of annoying the way that he endorses his products as the only answer.

I also find it a little bit...scary that he endorses the USDA stamp of approval so much. There have been recent findings that have shown that the USDA has actually been slacking in enforcing a lot of their organic standards. Mercola has not mentioned this in any of his articles, and I wonder why. I really hope that he is not being paid by the USDA to endorse that stamp of approval. I don't think so, but I just find it a bit odd that he has not recognized this.

It scares me to wonder whether the USDA organic stamp is going to be yet another tool of manipulation...and if it's not enforced, then really, it's useless.
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Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #44 on: October 30, 2011, 12:20:12 am »
I have not looked into who is running or not so personally I have no clue who those people are. I doubt Obama will get another term though, especially after operation fast and furious, which of course is receiving almost no media coverage.

That is a good point about the milk thing and I was surprised to find out a few years ago it was illegal to buy/sell unpasteurized (real) milk. I'm even more surprised on how Obama was trying to push that bill that would make it so nobody can grow their own garden anymore because you had to buy and use USDA approved fertilizer and pesticides. It is no wonder auto-immune disorders are so rampant these days...

I say I am surprised when I really shouldn't be...

Oh MY GOSH, I did not know this!!!

Have you heard about the suicide seed? Look it up, it's being developed by Monsanto. It's the scariest thing in the world; it's basically looking to create a form of plants that will produce sterile seed. This means that farmers won't even be able to save their seed if they wanted to. Can you imagine what will happen if these "suicide seeds" contaminate with normal crops?!

He who controls the food supply controls the world...

I've heard of this before.  It is honestly one of the most disgusting, inhumane, selfish things I have ever heard in my life. Greed at its worst.

I know, man!

It seriously gives me the incentive to give conspiracy theories a second glance.
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Offline GregAtlas

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #45 on: October 30, 2011, 12:30:33 am »
Okay, I just did a quick search on that garden thing that was also intended to ban organic farming as well. I haven't re-read the bill since it was first being shoved through but according to this search it is called HR 875 & S 425 if you want to look it up (my eyes hurt too much right now to do a lot of reading so I hope this is what I'm remembering.) It was a big hush hush operation at the time too.
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Offline reppy

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #46 on: October 30, 2011, 12:51:28 am »
I know, and it's kind of annoying the way that he endorses his products as the only answer.

I also find it a little bit...scary that he endorses the USDA stamp of approval so much. There have been recent findings that have shown that the USDA has actually been slacking in enforcing a lot of their organic standards. Mercola has not mentioned this in any of his articles, and I wonder why. I really hope that he is not being paid by the USDA to endorse that stamp of approval. I don't think so, but I just find it a bit odd that he has not recognized this.

It scares me to wonder whether the USDA organic stamp is going to be yet another tool of manipulation...and if it's not enforced, then really, it's useless.

Hehe, yeah. I just take his advice, then research the best alternative on my own. =)

I don't know much about the USDA, but I wouldn't be surprised there was corporate cronyism involved.  I mean, it's everywhere else you look. :\


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Offline Darknight2433

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #47 on: October 30, 2011, 01:10:25 am »
The USDA does wonders- it's the reason a lot of people are alive right now.

Also, Montanto has been trying to give out infertile seeds for a long time- it got outlawed, and now they just have a 'honesty policy' where the farmers they sell the seeds to promise to not use them for next year, and merely buy another batch.

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Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #48 on: October 30, 2011, 02:44:55 am »
The USDA does wonders- it's the reason a lot of people are alive right now.

Have you all seen Food Inc?

I would like to respectfully disagree with the first statement. The USDA is one of the the reasons why we have obesity, diabetes, are being poisoned by high fructose corn syrup, and I would bet that they contribute to world hunger by subsidizing ethanol. As far as Monsanto goes, I'm going to have to wait a bit. It's just a matter of time before they can claw their way into making it legal. For many years, the patenting of seeds was not allowed, but now it is. I figure it's just a matter of time before they can buy the legalization of the suicide seed.

I have seen Food Inc. It was an excellent documentary and snapped me out of my conventional food trance.

Have you seen Fat Head? It's on Netflix. It exposes the lipid hypothesis, the biggest scientific scam that the USDA has perpetuated. Very interesting, you should look it up.
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Offline @random

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #49 on: October 30, 2011, 04:06:48 am »
The USDA used to do wonders, whether they still do or not. Once upon a time, the meatpacking industry and other food producers had "convinced" the government (or at least their wallets) that it could be trusted, and the government agency nominally in charge of inspecting food was little more than a facade. To break the fallacy that food industries can be trusted to self-police, it took The Jungle and so much mass food-poisoning (aka ptomaine) that it was the leading cause of death among young adults. The USDA was created, and food got much safer than it had been in a long time.

Flash-forward a century, and the USDA doesn't even have the power to demand a recall when food starts killing people. They have to ask nicely and hope that the company will do so in a timely fashion - i.e. before 5/6th of it has already been consumed, as happened in a 2002 ConAgra incident. And their ability to even inspect food, pronounce something unsafe, or go after false claims has been whittled down to almost nothing.

Corporations around the turn of the last century pretty much ran everything, until massive outcry and popular movement forced reform. We're starting to see repeats of history all over the place - the abuses of the mortgage industry, the almost-open buying of politicians, using quasi-legal immigration to break the labor movement, the food industry scandals, etc. YMMV, but I think the Occupy movement may be the first serious sign that people have had enough.
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Offline GregAtlas

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #50 on: October 30, 2011, 11:49:50 am »
^ Agreed about the food stuff.

Also agreed that the occupy movement is a big sign people are getting fed up with the way things are. I personally don't know what the movement is about, but if police "white shirts" (commanders) are attacking people in new york for apparently no reason, then there has to be something to it.

It looks like congress voted unanimously to cut all programs like operation Fast and Furious yesterday. Too bad it is too late for those two border patrol officers and the hundreds of Mexicans that have already been killed because of it.
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Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #51 on: October 30, 2011, 01:45:41 pm »
The USDA used to do wonders, whether they still do or not. Once upon a time, the meatpacking industry and other food producers had "convinced" the government (or at least their wallets) that it could be trusted, and the government agency nominally in charge of inspecting food was little more than a facade. To break the fallacy that food industries can be trusted to self-police, it took The Jungle and so much mass food-poisoning (aka ptomaine) that it was the leading cause of death among young adults. The USDA was created, and food got much safer than it had been in a long time.

Flash-forward a century, and the USDA doesn't even have the power to demand a recall when food starts killing people. They have to ask nicely and hope that the company will do so in a timely fashion - i.e. before 5/6th of it has already been consumed, as happened in a 2002 ConAgra incident. And their ability to even inspect food, pronounce something unsafe, or go after false claims has been whittled down to almost nothing.

Corporations around the turn of the last century pretty much ran everything, until massive outcry and popular movement forced reform. We're starting to see repeats of history all over the place - the abuses of the mortgage industry, the almost-open buying of politicians, using quasi-legal immigration to break the labor movement, the food industry scandals, etc. YMMV, but I think the Occupy movement may be the first serious sign that people have had enough.

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Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #52 on: October 30, 2011, 04:12:55 pm »
Actually I'm not a big fan of Ron Paul and I'll tell you why a number of his policies would be disastrous.

1. Restoration of the Gold standard: Taking us back to the Gold standard would be economically disastrous because there's not enough gold on the PLANET to cover the amount of money we got floating out there.
2. Eliminate ALL taxes: Now granted a flat tax would be nice. But Ron Paul and people like him want to eliminate ALL taxes which would essentially render the federal government completely peniless and unable to function.
3. Eliminate ALL Government agencies including the Bureau of Homeland security: Now how are we supposed to regulate things in this country or protect ourselves from enemies if there are no government agencies to regulate things? This is a bad idea.
4. Decentrallize our Military: Basically Ron Paul and people like him want to eliminate our military and replace it with small "Civiliian militias". Are small civilian militias going to be able to stop large armies when they invade I think not..NO!
5. Negotuiate with enemies: Now Ron Paul wants to negotiate with the likes of Iran. He expects all of us to sit in a fireside circle with our enemies and sing "Kumbaya" with them? In case no one noticed out there in the world we still have a group of unreasonaning religious psychopaths who want nothing more than to put several bullets to several nukes through our heads so they can create their own Holy Ottoman Empire. Iran's mullahs are still a threat and Achmedinijad (Sp?) has all the makings of th next Adolph Hitler. And for those of us who've read history we know what kind of damage the first one did and why we don't need a second one. We cannot isolate ourselves from the rest of world. Thomas Jefferson once said, "The Price of liberty is always vigilence." and essentially Ron Paul wants us to isolate ourselves from the rest of the world and put our fingers in our ears. That would be a great environment for a wanabe Hitler to flourish. In short if we ignore our responsibilities evil will flourish.
6. Blantent misinterpretation of the constitution:  Ron Paul actually wants to make the dollar illegal and uses a certain constitiutional amendment to state his case. The problem is I found out Ron Paul's little interpreataion was a gross misinterpretation. What this amendment says is that the individual states shall not produce their own currency. And that's sensible that promotes economic stability. That constitutional amendment does NOT say that gold and silver are the only money that shall be used. This leads to the question if Ron Paul would grossly misinterpret this amendment what else would he misinterpret if it would suit his own ends? Just a little something to think on.

If you're wondering how I got all this information, I saw a little old public cable access special that was put on by members of the Libertarian movement. And mind you in that special they also talked about all sorts of circumstantial non-existant conspiracies which I'd bet ere cooked up. And as for this infertility seed there's one question I have. If such a thing does exist which I seriously doubt, WHY the blazes would we create something like that in the first place? We humans are many things but we're not THAT stupid. A word of advice to everyone out there it's always a good idea to not only question the information but question the people or person giving you that information or claiming that conspiracy they might (and probably do) have an ulterior agenda. Think on this folks.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 02:05:38 pm by Animeman73 »
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Offline GregAtlas

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #53 on: October 30, 2011, 06:23:58 pm »
They made that seed so the farmers would have to buy their seed each time rather than harvest some of their own crops and get their own seeds. It is so that seed company gets more profits.
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Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #54 on: November 05, 2011, 12:15:48 am »
Actually I'm not a big fan of Ron Paul and I'll tell you why a number of his policies would be disastrous.

1. Restoration of the Gold standard: Taking us back to the Gold standard would be economically disastrous because there's not enough gold on the PLANET to cover the amount of money we got floating out there.

While I do agree that going back to the gold standard might not be an immediate answer, let's take a look at the reason you give. The reason for the gold standard IS because there is all that money floating out there. Think about it. Would you rather have $100 in bills or $100 worth of gold? Most people would choose the gold because it is a solid store of wealth. It forces money to be tied to something concrete. If you've ever studied the history of money, you would know that historically, tying money to gold was the only way to guarantee that your wealth was saved. The process would not be immediate, we might have to revalue our system and have a floating exchange rate, but theoretically it could be done.

2. Eliminate ALL taxes: Now granted a flat tax would be nice. But Ron Paul and people like him want to eliminate ALL taxes which would essentially render the federal government completely peniless and unable to function.

This is false. Ron Paul is advocating for 10th amendment rights, which gives states more power. If you have less federal government, you would need less taxes to finance it. When he talks about getting rid of taxes, he is mainly pushing for less federal taxes. He does want to abolish the income and death taxes, but this does not mean we would not have a sales tax or taxes on other goods!

3. Eliminate ALL Government agencies including the Bureau of Homeland security: Now how are we supposed to regulate things in this country or protect ourselves from enemies if there are no government agencies to regulate things? This is a bad idea.

Do you have ANY idea about what the Bureau of Homeland Security has done? How many rights it has taken away from us? If you are in support of civil liberties being stripped away for matters of "security" then I guess it would make sense to continue to vote for politicians who support this type of regulation.

4. Decentrallize our Military: Basically Ron Paul and people like him want to eliminate our military and replace it with small "Civiliian militias". Are small civilian militias going to be able to stop large armies when they invade I think not..NO!

Excuse me? Ron Paul has advocated for a strengthening of national borders. There are Ron Paul SUPPORTERS who have advocated for civilian militias, but this is because most of them believe that a police state is soon to be imposed on the American populace. Look up FEMA Camps on Google for reasons why they might believe this. If you can please provide sources for these claims, I would like to read them over.

5. Negotuiate with enemies: Now Ron Paul wants to negotiate with the likes of Iran. He expects all of us to sit in a fireside circle with our enemies and sing "Kumbaya" with them? In
case no one noticed out there in the world we still have a group of unreasonaning religious psychopaths who want nothing more than to put several bullets to several nukes through our heads so they can create their own Holy Ottoman Empire. Iran's mullahs are still a threat and Achmedinijad (Sp?) has all the makings of th next Adolph Hitler. And for those of us who've read history we know what kind of damage the first one did and why we don't need a second one. We cannot isolate ourselves from the rest of world. Thomas Jefferson once said, "The Price of liberty is always vigilence." and essentially Ron Paul wants us to isolate ourselves from the rest of the world and put our fingers in our ears. That would be a great environment for a wanabe Hitler to flourish. In short if we ignore our responsibilities evil will flourish.

Unfortunately, it seems that war propaganda has succeeded in convincing the politic of the philosophy of preemptive war strategy.  When Bush went to war with Iraq, it was purportedly because of WMDs. There were none. Now the Obama administration is continuing to push for war against Iran...why? For what reason? While it may be the case that there are some Islamic extremists, I have my doubts about their ability to take on the U.S. It is precisely because of the U.S. strategies of policing the world that it has garnered so much hatred. It has nothing to do with religion, but rather social injustices and the policing of the world. It is similar to the issue with Palestine/Israel. The issue was never about religion, but land, power, and occupation.

6. Blantent misinterpretation of the constitution:  Ron Paul actually wants to make the dollar illegal and uses a certain constitiutional amendment to state his case. The problem is I found out Ron Paul's little interpreataion was a gross misinterpretation. What this amendment says is that the individual states shall not produce their own currency. And that's sensible that promotes economic stability. That constitutional amendment does NOT say that gold and silver are the only money that shall be used. This leads to the question if Ron Paul would grossly misinterpret this amendment what else would he misinterpret if it would suit his own ends? Just a little something to think on.

Excuse me? Make the dollar illegal? Can you please provide links to back this up? I want a quote from Ron Paul about his thoughts on this.

If you're wondering how I got all this information, I saw a little old public cable access special that was put on by members of the Libertarian movement. And mind you in that special they also talked about all sorts of circumstantial non-existant conspiracies which I'd bet ere cooked up.

So you watched one biased video and formulated all of your opinions based on that. I would suggest that you look into his actual positions. This is his website: http://www.ronpaul2012.com/

And as for this infertility seed there's one question I have. If such a thing does exist which I seriously doubt, WHY the blazes would we create something like that in the first place? We humans are many things but we're not THAT stupid. A word of advice to everyone out there it's always a good idea to not only question the information but question the people or person giving you that information or claiming that conspiracy they might (and probably do) have an ulterior agenda. Think on this folks.

Why? So that Monsanto can gain enormous profits and political power. If they control the food supply, they control the world. Thankfully, these seeds were made illegal, but they still created at least 20 different types of them, I believe. I wouldn't doubt that they are in the process of continuing to pursue it.

The reason why I believe that Ron Paul would make a good president is because he has tirelessly advocated for civil liberties. I don't agree with his positions on every issue; I also have qualms about the gold standard and some of his foreign policy. However, as I've been researching the Patriot Act, and the gradual deterioration of our rights as citizens, Ron Paul is the only (mainstream) candidate who has consistently advocated for these rights. You mentioned that "The price of liberty is always vigilance," well, I would like to rebut that with "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin

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Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #55 on: November 05, 2011, 09:19:56 pm »
Actually I'm not a big fan of Ron Paul and I'll tell you why a number of his policies would be disastrous.

1. Restoration of the Gold standard: Taking us back to the Gold standard would be economically disastrous because there's not enough gold on the PLANET to cover the amount of money we got floating out there.

While I do agree that going back to the gold standard might not be an immediate answer, let's take a look at the reason you give. The reason for the gold standard IS because there is all that money floating out there. Think about it. Would you rather have $100 in bills or $100 worth of gold? Most people would choose the gold because it is a solid store of wealth. It forces money to be tied to something concrete. If you've ever studied the history of money, you would know that historically, tying money to gold was the only way to guarantee that your wealth was saved. The process would not be immediate, we might have to revalue our system and have a floating exchange rate, but theoretically it could be done.

2. Eliminate ALL taxes: Now granted a flat tax would be nice. But Ron Paul and people like him want to eliminate ALL taxes which would essentially render the federal government completely peniless and unable to function.

This is false. Ron Paul is advocating for 10th amendment rights, which gives states more power. If you have less federal government, you would need less taxes to finance it. When he talks about getting rid of taxes, he is mainly pushing for less federal taxes. He does want to abolish the income and death taxes, but this does not mean we would not have a sales tax or taxes on other goods!

3. Eliminate ALL Government agencies including the Bureau of Homeland security: Now how are we supposed to regulate things in this country or protect ourselves from enemies if there are no government agencies to regulate things? This is a bad idea.

Do you have ANY idea about what the Bureau of Homeland Security has done? How many rights it has taken away from us? If you are in support of civil liberties being stripped away for matters of "security" then I guess it would make sense to continue to vote for politicians who support this type of regulation.

4. Decentrallize our Military: Basically Ron Paul and people like him want to eliminate our military and replace it with small "Civiliian militias". Are small civilian militias going to be able to stop large armies when they invade I think not..NO!

Excuse me? Ron Paul has advocated for a strengthening of national borders. There are Ron Paul SUPPORTERS who have advocated for civilian militias, but this is because most of them believe that a police state is soon to be imposed on the American populace. Look up FEMA Camps on Google for reasons why they might believe this. If you can please provide sources for these claims, I would like to read them over.

5. Negotuiate with enemies: Now Ron Paul wants to negotiate with the likes of Iran. He expects all of us to sit in a fireside circle with our enemies and sing "Kumbaya" with them? In
case no one noticed out there in the world we still have a group of unreasonaning religious psychopaths who want nothing more than to put several bullets to several nukes through our heads so they can create their own Holy Ottoman Empire. Iran's mullahs are still a threat and Achmedinijad (Sp?) has all the makings of th next Adolph Hitler. And for those of us who've read history we know what kind of damage the first one did and why we don't need a second one. We cannot isolate ourselves from the rest of world. Thomas Jefferson once said, "The Price of liberty is always vigilence." and essentially Ron Paul wants us to isolate ourselves from the rest of the world and put our fingers in our ears. That would be a great environment for a wanabe Hitler to flourish. In short if we ignore our responsibilities evil will flourish.

Unfortunately, it seems that war propaganda has succeeded in convincing the politic of the philosophy of preemptive war strategy.  When Bush went to war with Iraq, it was purportedly because of WMDs. There were none. Now the Obama administration is continuing to push for war against Iran...why? For what reason? While it may be the case that there are some Islamic extremists, I have my doubts about their ability to take on the U.S. It is precisely because of the U.S. strategies of policing the world that it has garnered so much hatred. It has nothing to do with religion, but rather social injustices and the policing of the world. It is similar to the issue with Palestine/Israel. The issue was never about religion, but land, power, and occupation.

6. Blantent misinterpretation of the constitution:  Ron Paul actually wants to make the dollar illegal and uses a certain constitiutional amendment to state his case. The problem is I found out Ron Paul's little interpreataion was a gross misinterpretation. What this amendment says is that the individual states shall not produce their own currency. And that's sensible that promotes economic stability. That constitutional amendment does NOT say that gold and silver are the only money that shall be used. This leads to the question if Ron Paul would grossly misinterpret this amendment what else would he misinterpret if it would suit his own ends? Just a little something to think on.

Excuse me? Make the dollar illegal? Can you please provide links to back this up? I want a quote from Ron Paul about his thoughts on this.

If you're wondering how I got all this information, I saw a little old public cable access special that was put on by members of the Libertarian movement. And mind you in that special they also talked about all sorts of circumstantial non-existant conspiracies which I'd bet ere cooked up.

So you watched one biased video and formulated all of your opinions based on that. I would suggest that you look into his actual positions. This is his website: http://www.ronpaul2012.com/

And as for this infertility seed there's one question I have. If such a thing does exist which I seriously doubt, WHY the blazes would we create something like that in the first place? We humans are many things but we're not THAT stupid. A word of advice to everyone out there it's always a good idea to not only question the information but question the people or person giving you that information or claiming that conspiracy they might (and probably do) have an ulterior agenda. Think on this folks.

Why? So that Monsanto can gain enormous profits and political power. If they control the food supply, they control the world. Thankfully, these seeds were made illegal, but they still created at least 20 different types of them, I believe. I wouldn't doubt that they are in the process of continuing to pursue it.

The reason why I believe that Ron Paul would make a good president is because he has tirelessly advocated for civil liberties. I don't agree with his positions on every issue; I also have qualms about the gold standard and some of his foreign policy. However, as I've been researching the Patriot Act, and the gradual deterioration of our rights as citizens, Ron Paul is the only (mainstream) candidate who has consistently advocated for these rights. You mentioned that "The price of liberty is always vigilance," well, I would like to rebut that with "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin



Now that we've got all that out of the way I'll say this. I stand by everything I say. You got to watch a lot of O' Reily and the Factor for the No Spin stuff and go to non-partisan websites to get a closer look.

1. You say back up our money with Gold. Like I said there's not enough Gold on the Planet to cover the amount of money we got floating out there. Granted Gold and precious metals are a great investmment idea that can yield some heavy dividends if played for the long haul. But it's been proven that Ron Paul wants to return us to the Gold standard it's the No-spin truth.

2. Actually it isn't false granted we'd have fewer Government agencies but look at what Ron Paul wants to get rid of. The Federal Reserve, The Bureau Homeland Security, The Bureau Of Eductaion. The I.R.S.  Those who are in charge of insuring that our nation has some measure of regulation or collect money needed for government to run it's basic services. We might be burdened by too much regulation which could be cut. But too little regulation...and the gangsters run amuck unchecked.

3. The Bureau of Homeland Security has worked quietly behind the scenes insuring that all Government agencies work together and share information to help us deal with the threat of Teerrorism which is still very real. And getting rid of the Federal reserve would cut off every American business from getting the money they need to get things done and make a profitand thusly cause our great entrepreneurial system to collpase no new businesses big or small. You can only cut so much from the Federal government before you you kill vital services. Granted the Government could stand to be shrunk but eliminate our most important agencies there's a recipe for disaster if ever there was one.

4. Ah yes, the so-called police state. People who are talking like that I say to them go to a third world dictatorship country and THEN you'll see a police state. America is many things but it is not now nor will it ever be a police state. That's a conspiracy thoery (And I don't apoliogize for saying that because that's what it is). And what happened with FEMA that was it's own fault they botched up big time.

5. War propaganda? That's a conspiracy theory pushed by the anti-war isolationist crowd. Obama has never advocated war with Iran. Granted there were no WMDs in Iraq but Saddam Hussien was a meanace that needed to be stopped in case he did. We should've gone in Iraq AFTER we killed Osama Bin Laden. But in the end it doesn't matter because we got that varmit none the less. And the so-called policing the world has caused the world to hate us...sorry that's spin by the anti-war crowd. Sorry but Ron Paul and his followers see the U.S. Army as part of the "Police state" and want to dismantle it for "Ciivilian Militias" which would spell disaster for us if another power decided to invade.

6. He would illegalize the dollar and he quotes I recall the very same Amendment which states thates the the Dollar shall be the only currecy by the U.S. or in Ron Paul's case he twists the translation to suit his own ends. People like him who twist and pervert the constitution are the sort of people who should NOT be in office.

7. I actually checked out that website. it's a known pro-Ron Paul website. I prefer to go to known, established, and respected non-partisan sites for information. Granted Bill O' Reily likes to antagonize people and I'm not exactly cool with that, I prefer Mike Huckabee's approach. Still Bill O' Reily doesn't take sides he simply lays it out and a lot of times he's right though he does have a bad habit of being anti-union while I myself am pro-union. And funny thing about Public Cable Access folks who go on those channels usually are talking to those who they think are on their side and are unafraid to tell it like it is. To paraphrase Sun Tzu, "Keep your friends close keep your opponents closer."

9. Enormous Profits and political powerr? Ahh, ahhh that's a conspiracy theory. Granted they want to make money, what business doesn't? That's the name of the game in the business world. Granted a number of big Businesses could learn to have more accountability but if we simply don't buy their products they'll get the message. Or better still go into business against them. That will drive down the price of things for the consumer, lead to better quality of customer service, and create more jobs, and more oppurtunities for all. Like I said if you don't like a company, don't accuse them of nonsensical conspiacy theories. Just don't buy their product or start making the same thing they do. And the big problem with the whole sterile seed thing is if they were to do that they'd be putting themselves in danger of going out of business and starving the human race as well with an infertile seed. And no business last time I looked ever wanted to shoot themselves in the foot so to speak.

Sorry Ron Paul only supports the constitution when it's convienient for him. He's a constitutional lawyer, and like all lawyers he has a knack for twisting the truth when it serves his own ends. That's the truth behind the spin. And as for Ben Franklin the ORIGINAL American playa' and patriot yes, what he said was true, but...what he also means is we have to be on the lookout for those within our system who would seek to use it as a means to gain the power they crave. I'm sorry but Ron Paul wants to go beyond the presidency he wants to run the country for as long as he can and he'd use the constitution if he thought it could help him achieve that.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2011, 09:21:17 am by Animeman73 »
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Offline GregAtlas

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #56 on: November 07, 2011, 04:02:18 am »
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Offline jaqua

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #57 on: November 08, 2011, 01:14:59 am »
You got to watch a lot of O' Reily and the Factor for the No Spin stuff and go to non-partisan websites to get a closer look.

hahahahahahahaha omg are you kidding me
Dude, Fox News is the laughingstock of news channels for a reason. They have so much bias and outright fabrication in their "news" that it doesn't even count as news anymore. And don't even get me started on Bill O'Reilly, that hatemonger needs to just retire and get out of the public eye already. He's embarrassing every American with a brain.

Offline @random

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #58 on: November 08, 2011, 03:27:54 am »
Fwiw, O'Reilly probably makes one of the most serious efforts to appear neutral out of all the Fox commentators*. That's not exactly a high standard, though.  :-\

* - there being a big difference between commentator and reporter.
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Offline jaqua

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #59 on: November 08, 2011, 05:24:20 pm »
That's true, I'll give him that credit. He does at least attempt to appear "fair and balanced", even though he definitely is not.

Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #60 on: November 11, 2011, 02:09:30 am »
See post below; accidentally submitted too early.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 02:23:14 am by HalcyonFour »
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Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #61 on: November 11, 2011, 02:22:22 am »




Now that we've got all that out of the way I'll say this. I stand by everything I say. You got to watch a lot of O' Reily and the Factor for the No Spin stuff and go to non-partisan websites to get a closer look.


Now I understand why you believe all of these things about Ron Paul. Please, I urge you to seek alternative media! You cannot expect the truth to come from these types of sources. The mainstream media is owned by corporations with interests. You mentioned non-biased sources. Dude. Wake up!

1. You say back up our money with Gold. Like I said there's not enough Gold on the Planet to cover the amount of money we got floating out there. Granted Gold and precious metals are a great investmment idea that can yield some heavy dividends if played for the long haul. But it's been proven that Ron Paul wants to return us to the Gold standard it's the No-spin truth.

LOOK AT THE U.S. INFLATION RATE. THE DOLLAR IS BEING DEVALUED AS WE SPEAK BECAUSE OF EASY MONEY POLICY. What you're saying about not enough gold in the world makes no sense at all! Can you please provide links to explain your logic?

2. Actually it isn't false granted we'd have fewer Government agencies but look at what Ron Paul wants to get rid of. The Federal Reserve, The Bureau Homeland Security, The Bureau Of Eductaion. The I.R.S.  Those who are in charge of insuring that our nation has some measure of regulation or collect money needed for government to run it's basic services. We might be burdened by too much regulation which could be cut. But too little regulation...and the gangsters run amuck unchecked.

1. The Federal Reserve is a PRIVATE BANK. It is NOT a federal agency. Alan Greenspan, formal Federal Reserve chairman himself said that the Fed has NO OBLIGATION to the law, and this is absolutely true. When the Fed wants to affect interest rates, it just prints money and buys or sells bonds! Do you have any idea what this has done to the U.S. inflation rate? The agencies you have mentioned are inefficient. I remember when Katrina came a ravaged New Orleans, FEMA was by far the biggest joke. It was extremely ineffective, yet all of that money continues to be funneled into it. I'm not fond of my tax dollars supporting an inefficient system.

3. The Bureau of Homeland Security has worked quietly behind the scenes insuring that all Government agencies work together and share information to help us deal with the threat of Teerrorism which is still very real. And getting rid of the Federal reserve would cut off every American business from getting the money they need to get things done and make a profitand thusly cause our great entrepreneurial system to collpase no new businesses big or small. You can only cut so much from the Federal government before you you kill vital services. Granted the Government could stand to be shrunk but eliminate our most important agencies there's a recipe for disaster if ever there was one.

Um. The Fed does not loan commercially. It only loans to banks. So your notion of the Fed is wrong. Read up on it, and then come back to me with a rebuttal. As far as the "terrorism" threat...if you're a supporter of pre-emptive war strategy, go ahead and give your vote to Rick Perry or Romney, or whatever.

4. Ah yes, the so-called police state. People who are talking like that I say to them go to a third world dictatorship country and THEN you'll see a police state. America is many things but it is not now nor will it ever be a police state. That's a conspiracy thoery (And I don't apoliogize for saying that because that's what it is). And what happened with FEMA that was it's own fault they botched up big time.

Good. I'm glad you agree FEMA is ineffective.

I don't care if it's a conspiracy theory, the fact is that our privacy is being stolen from us. Just a couple of days ago the government issued its first ever "national emergency test". They're looking to do the same with internet and phones next, and there have already been measures to begin censoring the internet. Go ahead believing that this will never happen, or that the United States will continue to bask in its commercialism, but I'm not one to give myself to normalcy bias.
[/quote]

5. War propaganda? That's a conspiracy theory pushed by the anti-war isolationist crowd. Obama has never advocated war with Iran. Granted there were no WMDs in Iraq but Saddam Hussien was a meanace that needed to be stopped in case he did. We should've gone in Iraq AFTER we killed Osama Bin Laden. But in the end it doesn't matter because we got that varmit none the less. And the so-called policing the world has caused the world to hate us...sorry that's spin by the anti-war crowd. Sorry but Ron Paul and his followers see the U.S. Army as part of the "Police state" and want to dismantle it for "Ciivilian Militias" which would spell disaster for us if another power decided to invade.

Firstly, you are using the word "isolationism" improperly. "Isolationism" is a term that equates to economic autarky, so what you are saying makes no sense. The United States funds Israel's military. Israel has talked about bombing Iran by the end of 2012. Therefore, Obama is not opposed to going to war with Iran. Please don't be naive. And you  never provided any links like I asked you to about the militias, so I'm starting to think you're getting your information from hearsay.


6. He would illegalize the dollar and he quotes I recall the very same Amendment which states thates the the Dollar shall be the only currecy by the U.S. or in Ron Paul's case he twists the translation to suit his own ends. People like him who twist and pervert the constitution are the sort of people who should NOT be in office.

Excuse me? Illegalize the dollar? What does this even mean?! Where are you getting your information from, dude?!

7. I actually checked out that website. it's a known pro-Ron Paul website. I prefer to go to known, established, and respected non-partisan sites for information. Granted Bill O' Reily likes to antagonize people and I'm not exactly cool with that, I prefer Mike Huckabee's approach. Still Bill O' Reily doesn't take sides he simply lays it out and a lot of times he's right though he does have a bad habit of being anti-union while I myself am pro-union. And funny thing about Public Cable Access folks who go on those channels usually are talking to those who they think are on their side and are unafraid to tell it like it is. To paraphrase Sun Tzu, "Keep your friends close keep your opponents closer."

Bill O'Reilly is just as biased, if not more so, than anyone else working for the corporate media. Like I said, now I understand why you believe all of these things about Ron Paul. And as far as Sun Tzu's comment...Ron Paul's foreign policy would encourage exactly what you are advocating for, and I'm surprised that you don't recognize that.

9. Enormous Profits and political powerr? Ahh, ahhh that's a conspiracy theory. Granted they want to make money, what business doesn't? That's the name of the game in the business world. Granted a number of big Businesses could learn to have more accountability but if we simply don't buy their products they'll get the message. Or better still go into business against them. That will drive down the price of things for the consumer, lead to better quality of customer service, and create more jobs, and more oppurtunities for all. Like I said if you don't like a company, don't accuse them of nonsensical conspiacy theories. Just don't buy their product or start making the same thing they do. And the big problem with the whole sterile seed thing is if they were to do that they'd be putting themselves in danger of going out of business and starving the human race as well with an infertile seed. And no business last time I looked ever wanted to shoot themselves in the foot so to speak.

If you don't believe that the corporate powers that be have an influence on our government, you are naive. I don't mean that as an insult, but if you just look at all the really powerful people (Secretary of the Treasury, etc.) many of them were former CEOs, or have worked for private corporations. And now they run our government! And it seems in this paragraph you are advocating for competitive markets....um...this is EXACTLY the kind of economic system Ron Paul has been advocating for--less inefficient regulation, and more free markets.

Sorry Ron Paul only supports the constitution when it's convienient for him.

Your knowledge of Ron Paul is clearly severely limited if you really believe this. Ron Paul is a STRICT constitutionalist.

He's a constitutional lawyer, and like all lawyers he has a knack for twisting the truth when it serves his own ends.

I literally LOL'd when I read this, dude. Ron Paul is NOT a lawyer! He is a DOCTOR!

Seriously, dude! From WHERE are you getting your information?! Are you trolling? Like...are you?

That's the truth behind the spin. And as for Ben Franklin the ORIGINAL American playa' and patriot yes, what he said was true, but...what he also means is we have to be on the lookout for those within our system who would seek to use it as a means to gain the power they crave.

My friend, you are in for a rude awakening. These are the exact kinds of infringements on our civil liberties and rights that Ron Paul has advocated for time and time again. I strongly urge you to go to one of the "biased" and "unbiased" websites and seriously read about how avidly Ron Paul has fought for our rights.

I'm sorry but Ron Paul wants to go beyond the presidency he wants to run the country for as long as he can and he'd use the constitution if he thought it could help him achieve that.

Well, it seems that your "unbiased" media has officially done its job.

Honestly, after reading through your comments, you did not really address any of the issues I mentioned. It is also clear that you do not understand the way that our financial systems work, and from what you are saying about the sources you listen to, though you accuse me of visiting biased sources, it seems that the pot is calling the kettle black. CNN, CNBC, ABC, Google, all the major networks are bought and payed for by corporate interests.
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Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #62 on: November 11, 2011, 12:46:39 pm »
Ahh, typical of all Ron Paul supporters, you hear the words but do not listen with your mind. Granted I did mess up with Ron paul about hsi profession, but with everything else I'm quiote clear. My good fellow for you to throw audacious comments such as that I'm a brainwahed zombie in callusion with this secret conspiracy or that secret conspiracy just goes to show why Ron paul and his ilk will nevr win. And i beg to differ my good felow I was quite clear on the issues, and note this since we've started having this discussion you've constantly been throwinga b arrage of attacks my way while I have shown discipline and risen above it.

1, Another reason being, the man is in his 70's, he's not going to be around much longer.

2. The whole "Anything that even remotely dissimiliars from our persepctive is evil and part of a conspiarcy." It's true whenever anyone disagrees with Ron Paul all the followers come out of the woodwork and scream and shout trying to silence them. This is the exact same thing that the left is trying to do. And in the end in this great country it won't work>

Sorry in the end it's going to be Mitt Romney who proverbially pins Obama for the 1...2...3 victory and starts us down the right track to getting America back on feet. And with the way Obama keeps shooting himself in the foot Mitt Romney doesn't need to do all that much just stay positive and focus on his plan.. I'm a Moderate Democrat and i say Mitt Romney is the REAL hope for this country. Why, because we need moderates who will go by practicality, not ideology.
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Offline jaqua

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #63 on: November 11, 2011, 06:09:26 pm »
Oh my god dude I can't even handle you. You're not providing links to back up your claims. You're not debating, you're repeating the same close-minded opinions and refusing to see any side but your own, and belittling anyone who tries to propose different ideas. That isn't how you debate, and especially not how you debate politics. If you're not here to debate, you may as well just stop posting.

Also, plenty of presidents have been 60+ years of age when sworn in to office. His age has nothing to do with his ability to lead. Besides, in modern times, the life expectancy of a person is much longer than it ever has been previously-- it's not uncommon to live well into your eighties, nineties, even to a hundred these days.

How can you consider yourself to be a Moderate Democrat when you hold such Conservative Republican leanings and watch Conservative Republican and far-right news shows?...

Offline GregAtlas

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #64 on: November 12, 2011, 05:10:54 am »
I wonder if there are enough votes throughout time (total) for mickey mouse to win the presidency?
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Offline TalaRedWolf33

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #65 on: November 13, 2011, 12:16:09 am »
Id vote for him! Im his biggest fan!

Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #66 on: November 16, 2011, 05:18:26 pm »
So, I found this recently, and thought it'd be an interesting thing to present, especially since there seems to be a lot of misunderstandings about it.

This is from the official website for Congress.  It is legit.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/D?d112:1:./temp/~bdl2QJ:@@@L&summ2=m&|/home/LegislativeData.php|

I, for one, favor this, although I can see why many would argue against it.  Whichever one you side on this issue, I would recommend that you contact your local representatives and let them know you feel.  (I know that Sen. Ron Wyden is opposed to this...)
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Offline Chromophobic

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #67 on: November 16, 2011, 06:06:55 pm »
I know nothing of politics....

But the whole thing about getting the internet-censorship-thing-whatever-I-dont-even-know issue is ridiculous. And making certain sites illegal? The discussion of making tumblr illegal is what lead me to learn about this and led me to this deviant art journal:

Quote from: AntiquityDreams

[Link]
This video explains PiPA in very basic terms and the same sort of idea applies to SOPA, but, (just to tell you here) in brief, the legislation, if passed, would essentially hand the Internet over to corporations, allowing them to sue and shut down any website that so much as hosts a link to copyrighted material.

Internet Service Providers could be forced to block social media sites, search engines could be required to delete results, and startups could lose their funding — all on the whim of the copyright holder.

Perhaps most distressing of all, however, is the fact that this bill, in true Orwellian fashion, does nothing to prevent actual piracy. The only thing it will succeed in doing is turning the Internet into a dystopic plutocracy where people are no longer free to share ideas and be creative for fear of running afoul of Big Business.

Despite what some would have you believe, the hearings are offensively lopsided, with pro-SOPA voices far outweighing those opposed. A slew of tech companies including Google, Yahoo!, Mozilla, Twitter, and AOL, have undersigned a full-page ad in today's New York Times opposing SOPA, but it's doubtful their voices will be heard by those who need to hear it.

That means it's up to you to get this terrifying, jobs-killing, Internet-breaking bill off the table for good.


Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #68 on: November 16, 2011, 06:49:08 pm »
So, looking at the last line of what you posted, I find it contradictory.  The purpose of SOPA is to stop piracy, something that keeps money from those that work on music, movies, etc.  I think SOPA is a good thing.  I'd like to read that Protect IP thing myself.  It sounds like someone making wild claims, but I'd like to read it myself... I'm gonna do some searching!

Okay, I can see where he was going with the Protect IP one, but I think SOPA makes enough differences to where it'd be a good thing.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2011, 07:05:59 pm by Washougal_Otaku »
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Offline reppy

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #69 on: November 16, 2011, 09:13:17 pm »
I really think both of those bills have nothing to do with stopping piracy and everything to do with stopping unpopular speech.

These type of powers are abused.

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Offline @random

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #70 on: November 17, 2011, 08:01:13 am »
You're probably right in saying SOPA will be used against unpopular / anti-establishment speech... in fact, I'd be surprised if they don't use it against WikiLeaks within a year if SOPA becomes U.S. law.*

Will the MPAA and RIAA will abuse it? It's already happening with DMCA. The MPAA's recent defense in court when Hotfile sued them for knowingly and repeatedly sending false DMCA (copyright) takedown requests was pretty close to "Yeah, so what?" They even openly admitted to using takedown requests to get rid of Open Source material they didn't like, such as files that could be used to speed up downloading. Give them SOPA and remove due process, and you can probably say goodbye to any pretense of restraint.

* Addendum: I wasn't aware of it when I first posted, but it actually looks like wikileaks.org served as the prototype for one aspect of SOPA. Under SOPA, if a copyright holder claims that a site is violating their rights in some fashion, the credit card companies / Paypal / etc have to cut off that site's funding or risk legal liability. I wasn't aware of it, but a similar blockade has been used to strangle WikiLeaks in apparent retaliation for Cablegate.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2011, 10:27:38 am by @random »
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Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #71 on: November 17, 2011, 04:28:47 pm »
From what I got from SOPA, wikileaks has nothing to do with it, unless they do things that I'm unaware of.  As far as I know, they're a sort of journalism group, not an illegally-download-for-free site.
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Offline @random

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #72 on: November 17, 2011, 09:03:15 pm »
Wikileaks should have nothing to do with SOPA, but all it would take is for one corporation to claim that an embarrassing leaked memo was copyrighted. That would empower the DoJ to seize the domain, and I don't think they would stop to examine the legal accuracy of said claim too closely. Remember, this is a site that pissed off a lot of congresscritters enough to openly call for the assassination of its founder.

That's one of the biggest reasons a lot of people are worried about SOPA - it makes sites guilty until proven innocent, and all it takes is for someone to dislike your site enough to accuse you. The very accusation can be enough to trigger getting your income frozen and/or your domain name seized. It could shut down Google and internet forums like this one as well, since you don't even have to be hosting something someone decides is copyrighted... just creating a link to it is enough.

(Fun bit of trivia: One of the bill's other provisions means creating and uploading an AMV to youtube becomes a felony. Seriously.)
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Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #73 on: November 17, 2011, 09:32:11 pm »
That's definitely not what I got from reading the bill.  Besides, there would (or at least should) be ways to still legally fight it, should one of those theoretical scenarios come true.
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Offline @random

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #74 on: November 18, 2011, 03:14:33 am »
Which part(s) do you think aren't supported or are contradicted by the bill, and do you remember any text in the bill which contradicts it/them? I'd be really happy to learn some or all of my assertions aren't as bad as they seem. :)

Also, do you happen to remember any text in the bill which does allow for due process (i.e. the ability to legally fight it), other than the making-streaming-copyrighted-content-a-felony aspect*? Seriously, it would be good news.


(* - I think that's grossly disproportionate, but at least it's still due process.)
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Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #75 on: November 18, 2011, 03:36:42 am »
Ahh, typical of all Ron Paul supporters, you hear the words but do not listen with your mind. Granted I did mess up with Ron paul about hsi profession, but with everything else I'm quiote clear. My good fellow for you to throw audacious comments such as that I'm a brainwahed zombie in callusion with this secret conspiracy or that secret conspiracy just goes to show why Ron paul and his ilk will nevr win. And i beg to differ my good felow I was quite clear on the issues, and note this since we've started having this discussion you've constantly been throwinga b arrage of attacks my way while I have shown discipline and risen above it.

1, Another reason being, the man is in his 70's, he's not going to be around much longer.

2. The whole "Anything that even remotely dissimiliars from our persepctive is evil and part of a conspiarcy." It's true whenever anyone disagrees with Ron Paul all the followers come out of the woodwork and scream and shout trying to silence them. This is the exact same thing that the left is trying to do. And in the end in this great country it won't work>

Sorry in the end it's going to be Mitt Romney who proverbially pins Obama for the 1...2...3 victory and starts us down the right track to getting America back on feet. And with the way Obama keeps shooting himself in the foot Mitt Romney doesn't need to do all that much just stay positive and focus on his plan.. I'm a Moderate Democrat and i say Mitt Romney is the REAL hope for this country. Why, because we need moderates who will go by practicality, not ideology.


Honey, I'm a woman, not a fellow, and you did not address any of my comments.

Oh, well. I tried.
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Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #76 on: November 18, 2011, 03:21:00 pm »
The bill is talking about sites that offer illegal downloads of song files and the lot.  SOPA doesn't do that, so it doesn't relate.  That's enough reasoning right there.
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Offline Malaria

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #77 on: November 18, 2011, 09:40:16 pm »
In general, I haven't bothered to keep up with the Republican election drama too hard, since I won't be voting in their primaries anyway. But I feel really bad for anyone who has to pick from these goobers. On the plus side, the RNC is gonna be pretty entertaining this time around.
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Offline @random

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #78 on: November 19, 2011, 04:47:33 am »
The bill is talking about sites that offer illegal downloads of song files and the lot.  SOPA doesn't do that, so it doesn't relate.  That's enough reasoning right there.

Quote
SEC. 201. STREAMING OF COPYRIGHTED WORKS IN VIOLATION OF CRIMINAL LAW.

Any person who willfully infringes a copyright shall be punished as provided under section 2319 of title 18, if the infringement was committed...

by the public performance by means of digital transmission, during any 180-day period, of 1 or more copyrighted works

"Digital transmission" isn't limited to illegal downloads. As the section name indicates, it includes streaming.

Section 2319 of title 18 (the law being referenced) made counterfeiting copyrighted goods (i.e. making DVDs of Titanic that are designed to look like the one being sold in stores) a felony. This bill changes that to "any copyright violation at all." In fairness, there's also a section which requires that it be more than $2500 in damages, but they added on the MPAA/RIAA's formula of "every download or view equals a lost sale". Considering how many copyrighted works an AMV usually samples, you've almost certainly committed a felony if it gets as many as 10 views. First offense, up to 5 years in prison per infringement. Second and thereafter, 10 years.

The next bit doesn't lend itself as well to easily-digested quotes, but I'll try. Emphasis added.

Quote
The term `Internet site' means the collection of digital assets, including links, indexes, or pointers to digital assets...
Quote
a foreign Internet site or portion thereof is a `foreign infringing site' if... the owner or operator of such Internet site is committing or facilitating the commission of criminal violations punishable under section 2318, 2319, 2319A, 2319B, or 2320, or chapter 90, of title 18, United States Code

You don't even have to provide the content. All you have to do is "facilitate" it by linking to it or by being the registrant of the domain name. This opens you up to all sorts of happy fun in rem actions by the DoJ (Dep't of Justice) including having your domain seized, having search engines be forced to remove any links to you, having payment providers functionally seize your assets, etc... with no real recourse. The one site I know of that's tried to fight it has been tied up in court for several months, getting stonewalled - heaven only knows how much longer it'll take. Probably years. But if you get hit with all of the above, even if it's "only" for several months, you're functionally dead as a site - and all it takes is for someone to file a complaint with the DoJ against you. You don't have to be found guilty, you have to prove yourself innocent - after you've been sentenced.

To boot, they also wrote immunity from liability into the law so that not only the DoJ, but also payment providers will be immune from actions like the antitrust suit Wikileaks has filed in the EU against Visa et al for the blockade I described earlier. They face no penalty for unethically seizing someone's assets, but they'll be considered facilitators subject to felony charges if they don't comply "within 5 days". Even if they want to fight it on behalf of customers, they can't.

Quote
(5) IMMUNITY... any entity served with a copy of an order under this subsection, and any director, officer, employee, or agent thereof, shall not be liable for any act reasonably designed to comply with this subsection or reasonably arising from such order
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Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #79 on: November 19, 2011, 07:51:47 am »
There still is the other bill, Protect IP Act.

I think random is correct. Are you in law school, random?
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Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #80 on: November 19, 2011, 08:12:08 am »
Quote
SEC. 201. STREAMING OF COPYRIGHTED WORKS IN VIOLATION OF CRIMINAL LAW.

Any person who willfully infringes a copyright shall be punished as provided under section 2319 of title 18, if the infringement was committed...

by the public performance by means of digital transmission, during any 180-day period, of 1 or more copyrighted works

"Digital transmission" isn't limited to illegal downloads. As the section name indicates, it includes streaming.

No kidding, but that's not what's being said.  It's talking about the ones that are provided and downloaded illegally; that's what it means by "infringes a copyright."

Section 2319 of title 18 (the law being referenced) made counterfeiting copyrighted goods (i.e. making DVDs of Titanic that are designed to look like the one being sold in stores) a felony. This bill changes that to "any copyright violation at all." In fairness, there's also a section which requires that it be more than $2500 in damages, but they added on the MPAA/RIAA's formula of "every download or view equals a lost sale". Considering how many copyrighted works an AMV usually samples, you've almost certainly committed a felony if it gets as many as 10 views. First offense, up to 5 years in prison per infringement. Second and thereafter, 10 years.

AMV's wouldn't apply for various reasons.  For example, your getting random clips that are not in the original order.  Also, the original audio files (at least for what I call "genuine" AMV's) are not in the AMV's.  Therefore, the copyright laws that relate to illegal viewings doesn't apply.  As for the copyright theft, if you indicate where you got the audios and visuals for the AMV, (in other words, cite the sources), then you'll be fine, assuming that you got them legally.  If you got them illegally, then you've violated the law, whether you're making an AMV or not.

You don't even have to provide the content. All you have to do is "facilitate" it by linking to it or by being the registrant of the domain name. This opens you up to all sorts of happy fun in rem actions by the DoJ (Dep't of Justice) including having your domain seized, having search engines be forced to remove any links to you, having payment providers functionally seize your assets, etc... with no real recourse. The one site I know of that's tried to fight it has been tied up in court for several months, getting stonewalled - heaven only knows how much longer it'll take. Probably years. But if you get hit with all of the above, even if it's "only" for several months, you're functionally dead as a site - and all it takes is for someone to file a complaint with the DoJ against you. You don't have to be found guilty, you have to prove yourself innocent - after you've been sentenced.

Well, I can't say anything regarding the site you're talking about, since I don't know who they are, but SOPA is designed to focus on the sites that are violating copyright laws.  Here's the opening quote:

Quote
Authorizes the Attorney General (AG) to seek a court order against a U.S.-directed foreign Internet site committing or facilitating online piracy to require the owner, operator, or domain name registrant, or the site or domain name itself if such persons are unable to be found, to cease and desist further activities constituting specified intellectual property offenses under the federal criminal code including criminal copyright infringement, unauthorized fixation and trafficking of sound recordings or videos of live musical performances, the recording of exhibited motion pictures, or trafficking in counterfeit labels, goods, or services.

Anyone that the Attorney General sees violating the copyright laws will be told to stop first, given time to stop, and then punished should they continue on.  If anything, SOPA is a very forgiving-sounding law.

To boot, they also wrote immunity from liability into the law so that not only the DoJ, but also payment providers will be immune from actions like the antitrust suit Wikileaks has filed in the EU against Visa et al for the blockade I described earlier. They face no penalty for unethically seizing someone's assets, but they'll be considered facilitators subject to felony charges if they don't comply "within 5 days". Even if they want to fight it on behalf of customers, they can't.

And why shouldn't they?  If someone is violating the law, then those that are helping them are also violating the law.

Project IP is a similar copyright protection law.  If people are violating copyrights, even after getting warned by the government, then they should be punished.  I applaud the attempts to protect the artists that make these entertaining mediums that some people pirate-tize.
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Offline @random

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #81 on: November 19, 2011, 11:03:42 am »
Please note that I'm absolutely not speaking for Kumoricon, or predicting how Kumoricon will handle the implications of SOPA. I'm speaking only for myself, from my own personal opinion.



There still is the other bill, Protect IP Act.

I think random is correct. Are you in law school, random?

Thank you for the encouragement. (^_^) I'm not in law school, though, I'm just a nosy old man who sometimes reads the full text of a law to find out what they've hidden in the fine print. Especially when it has the potential to affect something I care about a lot, like Kumori.


AMV's wouldn't apply for various reasons.  For example, your getting random clips that are not in the original order.  Also, the original audio files (at least for what I call "genuine" AMV's) are not in the AMV's.  Therefore, the copyright laws that relate to illegal viewings doesn't apply.  As for the copyright theft, if you indicate where you got the audios and visuals for the AMV, (in other words, cite the sources), then you'll be fine, assuming that you got them legally.  If you got them illegally, then you've violated the law, whether you're making an AMV or not.

Possessing a recording doesn't give a person license to publicly perform it - remember all those notices about "for private exhibition only" that they used to stick in videotapes? Putting something on youtube would be a public performance.

YMMV on whether Fair Use would apply, but the law is written to "shoot first, ask questions later." Your opportunity to defend yourself will be months later, after spending thousands of dollars at the very least. And it'll be a complete crapshoot. :-\ Most sites, individuals, and organizations will be leery of taking such a chance.


You don't even have to provide the content. All you have to do is "facilitate" it by linking to it or by being the registrant of the domain name. This opens you up to all sorts of happy fun in rem actions by the DoJ (Dep't of Justice) including having your domain seized, having search engines be forced to remove any links to you, having payment providers functionally seize your assets, etc... with no real recourse. The one site I know of that's tried to fight it has been tied up in court for several months, getting stonewalled - heaven only knows how much longer it'll take. Probably years. But if you get hit with all of the above, even if it's "only" for several months, you're functionally dead as a site - and all it takes is for someone to file a complaint with the DoJ against you. You don't have to be found guilty, you have to prove yourself innocent - after you've been sentenced.
Well, I can't say anything regarding the site you're talking about, since I don't know who they are, but SOPA is designed to focus on the sites that are violating copyright laws.

The key point I was trying to make, but I managed to bury in a sea of TLDR instead, was this: You do not have to provide content to be punished. All you have to do is link to it. That's what happened to Rojadirecta, despite being declared legal by the courts in its own country (Spain).

If you think about what that means for both search engines and user-generated content sites, that's really scary. And it might explain why Yahoo, Google, Facebook, and a variety of other big names in the Internet have come out strongly against SOPA.

Quote
Authorizes the Attorney General (AG) to seek a court order against a U.S.-directed foreign Internet site committing or facilitating online piracy to require the owner, operator, or domain name registrant, or the site or domain name itself if such persons are unable to be found, to cease and desist further activities constituting specified intellectual property offenses under the federal criminal code including criminal copyright infringement, unauthorized fixation and trafficking of sound recordings or videos of live musical performances, the recording of exhibited motion pictures, or trafficking in counterfeit labels, goods, or services.

Anyone that the Attorney General sees violating the copyright laws will be told to stop first, given time to stop, and then punished should they continue on.  If anything, SOPA is a very forgiving-sounding law.

That's the opposite of what the DoJ has already been doing even before the law's passage, with operations like "In Our Sites". See earlier link for details. Rojadirecta was seized with no prior warning, and has been fighting it for several months now. The owner got off lucky, though, in that he wasn't hit with the asset seizure that SOPA threatens.
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Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #82 on: November 19, 2011, 01:03:10 pm »
So, what were they?  I don't see why this is relevant to the argument.  A company in Spain had its domain seized... why?  For streaming sporting events?  Did they have the legal right to show them?

This isn't the same thing as illegally downloading anime or music, nor to AMV creations.  Sports organizations have legal claims to their events.  If you go to s pro game with a camcorder, you're asked to take it back to your car, or you're denied entrance to the game.  Cameras are fine, but nothing that can record.  You can't show sporting events, not even clips, unless you have consent from said sporting corporation.  If Rojadirecta is guilty of this, then they should have their domain taken away.  Their argument is that this is limiting their online traffic; what kind of argument is that?  A poor one.  Nothing here changes my stance on a possible law that doesn't even relate to Rojadirecta.
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Offline @random

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #83 on: November 19, 2011, 02:37:27 pm »
The key point I was trying to make, but I managed to bury in a sea of TLDR instead, was this: You do not have to provide content to be punished. All you have to do is link to it. That's what happened to Rojadirecta, despite being declared legal by the courts in its own country (Spain).

If you think about what that means for both search engines and user-generated content sites, that's really scary. And it might explain why Yahoo, Google, Facebook, and a variety of other big names in the Internet have come out strongly against SOPA.

Why the US DoJ seizing Rojadirecta's domain for the crime of linking to copyrighted content hosted elsewhere is pertinent to SOPA: SOPA legalizes seizing both foreign and domestic websites on a wider scale and to a greater degree, just for linking. (Among several other niceties.)

To reiterate, I'm not speaking on behalf of Kumori or trying to predict how Kumori should react to SOPA
That means every search engine, every social network, every forum, everything with user-generated content has to disable linking or risk facing the same thing. It would be an impossible battle to try to keep all links scrubbed clean. It also means the US has unilaterally decided it owns the Internet and can take it away from anyone they want to, and screw other countries' laws giving greater freedom of speech than we enjoy.

How would we react if Turkey announced tomorrow that it was going to start banning Turkish people from looking at US websites that insult Kemal Ataturk (which is illegal in Turkey)? Some of us would laugh at them for it, some would sympathize with the Turkish people, most just wouldn't care. But what would we think if they announced they were going to take every website that insults Ataturk off the Internet altogether?

That's how other countries are looking at us right now.
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Offline reppy

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #84 on: November 19, 2011, 03:02:07 pm »
This is pretty interesting, taken from the comments on that page:

Internet giants place full-page anti-SOPA ad in NYT

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #85 on: November 19, 2011, 05:12:49 pm »
I thought it'd be interesting to see where people on the forums lie on the political spectrum... So if you take this test you can get a result like this one:



This is mine obviously. Apparently my views are close to those held by The Dalai Lama, which I think is totally rad.

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #86 on: November 19, 2011, 06:08:03 pm »
Apparently I'm close to Nelson Mandela, which is a little confusing. :)

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Offline Malaria

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #87 on: November 19, 2011, 06:59:58 pm »
Politically, I value economic justice as a means for social justice, cosmopolitanism, acculturation over assimilation, and the redress of generations of social and economic opportunities lost for women and minority groups.



It really shows.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2011, 09:10:52 pm by Malaria »
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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #88 on: November 19, 2011, 07:31:16 pm »
I've taken this a few times . . and this is generally pretty consistent with how I've scored so far.


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Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #89 on: November 20, 2011, 12:35:31 am »


I'm pretty sure that this is somewhat off; it says that I'm most like Pope Benedict XVI.  (What does theatre and museums have to do with politics?)

Going back to the SOPA, I'd like to see where people are getting this crap.  What I found, which is provided by Congree, sounds quite lenient compared to what you guys, as well as these "sources," are saying.  But whatever; how about we drop this particular subject and move on to something else, eh?
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Offline Malaria

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #90 on: November 20, 2011, 12:59:08 am »
You said that you're getting your info directly from Congress. Assuming Congress is exposing everyone to corporate mistreatment knowingly, (I'm not saying whether or not they are) what incentive do they have to provide you with accurate and complete information? Do you ask a five year old whether they ate all the cookies, or do you look in the cookie jar and at the crumbs on their face?

The only part of Congress that doesn't have at least a little incentive to lie to your face is the Congressional Budget Office. They get regular salaries no matter what Congress does.
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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #91 on: November 20, 2011, 01:58:17 am »
I'm pretty sure that this is somewhat off; it says that I'm most like Pope Benedict XVI.  (What does theatre and museums have to do with politics?)

I suppose the inference is that people on the left care more about art than people on the right, even if the art isn't economically viable.  Basically, a person on the left would see a social value to supporting a museum or theater whereas someone that was more capitalist-minded would say that if it can't afford to survive on its own then it shouldn't exist.

That's just my best guess, though.

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #92 on: November 20, 2011, 04:33:24 am »
BAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Same results as most of the people here. Thanks for the link!

I thought I was going to get authoritarian, but I guess not! And thank God I'm not on the libertarian right...I don't want to be on the same side as the Randians. And I think it's freaking awesome how I'm closer to Nelson Mandela/Gandhi.



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Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #93 on: November 20, 2011, 04:46:50 am »
And jaqua, has anyone ever told you that you look like Mark Ruffalo?
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Offline Chibachi Nero

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #94 on: November 20, 2011, 11:49:11 am »
...Hon that's not jaqua, that's Andrew Scott as Moriarty in the BBC's recent adaptation of Sherlock Holmes.



Mine doesn't surprise me much. I'm a bit more of a communist than the Dalai Lama.

Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #95 on: November 20, 2011, 03:50:00 pm »
My experience in my over 30 years of life has taught me this. Question all those who claim they are the savior of this country and question all information given out by those who claim they're savior incaranate. You may find some truths that you don't like.
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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #96 on: November 20, 2011, 05:22:14 pm »
...Hon that's not jaqua, that's Andrew Scott as Moriarty in the BBC's recent adaptation of Sherlock Holmes.


My bad; I've never seen that show. ^^;

My experience in my over 30 years of life has taught me this. Question all those who claim they are the savior of this country and question all information given out by those who claim they're savior incaranate. You may find some truths that you don't like.

I know about his loose ties with JBS; I also know about the ghostwritten newsletters, his Randian views, and his connections to Alex Jones and implied belief in globalism. As far as I'm concerned, every candidate will have imperfections. No one is perfect. As I recall, Mr. Barry Obama was praised as a champion of Change when he was elected. The man was heavily backed/funded by Farrakhan, Jeremiah Wright, La Raza, and the Black Panthers. It's OK to vote for a guy like him him when he's backed by these kinds of constituents, right? But it's not OK to back a strict constitutionalist ignorantly called a racist who will vote against popular laws on principle; will speak out against the the Federal Reserve; defend my rights to consume raw milk and use alternative medicine; and defend a foreign policy based on peace.

I have done plenty of research on Dr. Ron Paul, and while I do not support everything he does or stands for (I am very wary of JBS and I can't stand Ayn Rand), he is going to get my vote. I want the corporate marionettes out of office and I want my civil liberties protected.

If you disagree, I completely respect that. But thus far, you have failed to provide proper rebuttals to my arguments. You seem to be an Obama supporter. I highly encourage you to do your research as well.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2011, 05:23:49 pm by HalcyonFour »
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Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #97 on: November 20, 2011, 09:01:12 pm »
...Hon that's not jaqua, that's Andrew Scott as Moriarty in the BBC's recent adaptation of Sherlock Holmes.


My bad; I've never seen that show. ^^;

My experience in my over 30 years of life has taught me this. Question all those who claim they are the savior of this country and question all information given out by those who claim they're savior incaranate. You may find some truths that you don't like.

I know about his loose ties with JBS; I also know about the ghostwritten newsletters, his Randian views, and his connections to Alex Jones and implied belief in globalism. As far as I'm concerned, every candidate will have imperfections. No one is perfect. As I recall, Mr. Barry Obama was praised as a champion of Change when he was elected. The man was heavily backed/funded by Farrakhan, Jeremiah Wright, La Raza, and the Black Panthers. It's OK to vote for a guy like him him when he's backed by these kinds of constituents, right? But it's not OK to back a strict constitutionalist ignorantly called a racist who will vote against popular laws on principle; will speak out against the the Federal Reserve; defend my rights to consume raw milk and use alternative medicine; and defend a foreign policy based on peace.

I have done plenty of research on Dr. Ron Paul, and while I do not support everything he does or stands for (I am very wary of JBS and I can't stand Ayn Rand), he is going to get my vote. I want the corporate marionettes out of office and I want my civil liberties protected.

If you disagree, I completely respect that. But thus far, you have failed to provide proper rebuttals to my arguments. You seem to be an Obama supporter. I highly encourage you to do your research as well.

I appreciate you're respecting my views lass. But didn't anyone ever tell you it's not a good idea to assume anything?  Because the truth is...I voted for McCain and Palin in the last eleection. This Moderate Democrat has never been afraid to when necessary go against his own party and I saw what Barack Obama was when he was merely candidate Obama back in '08.

Corporate Marionaettes this, Corporate marionettes that. I've heard the talk and while I DEFINITELY don't approve of what the Banks did (There's enough blame on that score to go around.) that whole "The Bigc orporateions" talk is another conspiracy theory hatched by a number of anti-entrepreneurial organizations. Mitt Romney is not a marionette for anyone. He was a businessman who understands how the private sector works.

And you're the second person I''ve heard mention doing "Research" and well...I have and well no matter how folks try to rearrange restoring the gold standard whether they call it "backing up the dollar with gold" or whatever, if it looks, walks, quacks, and swims like a duck it's a duck. Also you can do all the overly complicated research you can but if you can't apply the K.I.S.S. theory (My version which is less insulting being Keep It Simple Sherlock.) then you could be very well electing someone who's going to use the constitution to essentially make themselves dictator. You're welcome to believe as you will lass. But I firmly believe the Ron Paul would use and manipulate our sytem if made president to make himself essentially president for life/dictator.

I appreciate you don't agree with everything he says that's actuallya  refreshing change from a lot opf Ron Paul supporters.

I do agree we need a flat tax that would make our ridiculously complcated tax system WAAAAY less so. And if we legalize and Tax marijuana the way we do cigrettes and alcohol this country wuill not only have a great source of income we'll also be REALLY socking it to the drug lords who get a little over 50% of their profits from selling Marijuana.

That's just my take on things.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 12:40:17 pm by Animeman73 »
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Offline jaqua

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #98 on: November 20, 2011, 09:49:51 pm »
...Hon that's not jaqua, that's Andrew Scott as Moriarty in the BBC's recent adaptation of Sherlock Holmes.


NO DON'T LISTEN HALCYON THIS IS ME I SWEAR man i wish i looked like mark ruffalo oh jeez

But no dude, whoa, I never realized how similar Mark Ruffalo and Andrew Scott look. My mind is blown. 8| you should watch sherlock oh man it's soooo goooood

I'm pretty sure that this is somewhat off; it says that I'm most like Pope Benedict XVI.  (What does theatre and museums have to do with politics?)

I suppose the inference is that people on the left care more about art than people on the right, even if the art isn't economically viable.  Basically, a person on the left would see a social value to supporting a museum or theater whereas someone that was more capitalist-minded would say that if it can't afford to survive on its own then it shouldn't exist.

That's just my best guess, though.

This is kinda how I see it, too.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2011, 09:51:18 pm by jaqua »

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #99 on: November 20, 2011, 10:01:46 pm »
My ideal Presidential candidate would be a Black/Hispanic/Arabic lesbian transwoman, who was a secular Atheist, pro-choice, pro-marriage equality, and a registered Independent. Oh man. I would cry if such a woman existed and demand she lead my country.

Offline Chibachi Nero

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #100 on: November 20, 2011, 10:26:21 pm »
That would be THE MOST BEAUTIFUL THING.

Offline Malaria

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #101 on: November 20, 2011, 10:31:10 pm »
She should also be a mixed-orientation sexual and alter-abled.
Any SJ categories we haven't hit yet?
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Offline jaqua

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #102 on: November 20, 2011, 11:03:32 pm »
Oh oh oh oh wait how about mixed-orientation romantic, but asexual? I like it. I want it.
Maybe she could have been raised by gay dads, one being a Muslim and the other being a... Hindu or a Buddhist or a Taoist or just Agnostic/Atheist or something. I want lots of alternative religious ideas.
And she was born in the US, but has traveled a lot in her life and lived in other countries so she has better knowledge of the world as a whole.

Offline Malaria

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #103 on: November 20, 2011, 11:19:13 pm »
Maybe she was the US AMBASSADOR TO CHINA

(Jon Huntsman for Republican nominee for president 2012)
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(Fred Karger for president, because if we're all going to be sick, starving and financially unstable, we could at least do it with all our civil rights intact.)
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Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #104 on: November 21, 2011, 01:26:29 am »
My ideal Presidential candidate would be a Black/Hispanic/Arabic lesbian transwoman, who was a secular Atheist, pro-choice, pro-marriage equality, and a registered Independent. Oh man. I would cry if such a woman existed and demand she lead my country.

This. One thing I always wondered about this kind of attitude. Are you a secluar atheist? An atheist preferring an atheist (in my view) is the same thing as a Christian preferring a Christian (or whatever).  Both circumstances are quite understandable, we naturally tend to gravitate towards people like us. Which is why I ask whether you are a secular atheist (though that term is kind of redundant, and if you don't feel comfortable revealing this, I understand). I watched the Thanksgiving Family Forum today with most of the candidates (Romney and the other guy didn't show up) and Gingrich was talking about how he "wouldn't be comfortable with an atheist president." I'm just interested in this phenomenon. Should it matter what religion a person is, so long as they stand for what is right? What if Ron Paul was an atheist? Would his supporters think he was more crazy? Or would he have more supporters? Some of his views would probably change, though.

Just some food for thought. Hope that wasn't offensive or controversial.
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Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #105 on: November 21, 2011, 02:22:32 am »
Mitt Romney is not a marionette for anyone. He was a businessman who understands how the private sector works.


I'm so glad to know you didn't vote for Barry.

As far as not being owned by anyone, well, Mitt Romney has received more money from lobbyists than any of the other candidates combined: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/10/mitt-romney-lobbyists_n_923323.html?ref=fb&src=sp  and he is generously being doused by Wall Street money: http://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/contrib.php?id=N00000286&cycle=2012   http://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/contriball.php?cycle=2012



But I firmly believe the Ron Paul would use and manipulate our sytem if made president to make himself esstentially president for life/dictator.


Please, enlighten me! I would love to know how a champion of the constitution (libertarian, no less) would engage in this type of behavior. 

There was a lot of other stuff about Romney I was going to post, but I like to encourage people to do their own research. I can PM them to you, if you like, though.
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Offline jaqua

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #106 on: November 21, 2011, 04:52:05 am »
My ideal Presidential candidate would be a Black/Hispanic/Arabic lesbian transwoman, who was a secular Atheist, pro-choice, pro-marriage equality, and a registered Independent. Oh man. I would cry if such a woman existed and demand she lead my country.

This. One thing I always wondered about this kind of attitude. Are you a secluar atheist? An atheist preferring an atheist (in my view) is the same thing as a Christian preferring a Christian (or whatever).  Both circumstances are quite understandable, we naturally tend to gravitate towards people like us. Which is why I ask whether you are a secular atheist (though that term is kind of redundant, and if you don't feel comfortable revealing this, I understand). I watched the Thanksgiving Family Forum today with most of the candidates (Romney and the other guy didn't show up) and Gingrich was talking about how he "wouldn't be comfortable with an atheist president." I'm just interested in this phenomenon. Should it matter what religion a person is, so long as they stand for what is right? What if Ron Paul was an atheist? Would his supporters think he was more crazy? Or would he have more supporters? Some of his views would probably change, though.

Just some food for thought. Hope that wasn't offensive or controversial.

Not offensive or controversial at all! I'm all for discussing my political views.

Yes, I am a secular atheist (and hahaha, yeah, it's a touch redundant). Honestly, no, I don't really care what religious views a person holds, so long as their political views aren't geared toward stripping another person of their rights, or in support of something I don't agree with. Unfortunately, a lot of the time Christian "values" (in politics, at least) include denying same-sex couples the right to marry or adopt children, restriction of birth control and the closure of Planned Parenthood, making abortion illegal, and teaching Christian history in schools (AKA Creationism) when it is a clear violation of the separation of church and state, and these are all things I have very strong opinions against. As someone who was raised by non-religious parents in a liberal city, I don't personally see why allowing same-sex couples to marry is even a concern in a modern and enlightened society like the US is supposed to be; I know that Planned Parenthood does far more than just provide abortions, such as providing birth control and birth control options to women and men who may otherwise not be able to afford it, test for and treat STDs, screen for breast, testicular, and cervical cancers, test for pregnancy and give pregnancy counseling, treat menopause, perform vasectomies, etc; and since I am not at all religious it didn't (and doesn't) sit very well with me that in my sophomore year of high school, my biology teacher (who was not a religious man) was forced to teach Creationism alongside Evolution in class, and even then the whole lesson and overview was kept as brief as possible, as not to offend. As someone who loves science, especially biology, I was intensely frustrated that we couldn't spend more time on it, since evolution is an extremely fascinating area of scientific study and I hated feeling like I was missing out. As for abortion, while it's obviously not going to be said in the bible that abortion is against Christianity (and let's be honest, God himself is not exactly guiltless of infanticide in scripture), it's vilified primarily by the religious right (who are, by a vast majority, Christian). I believe that a woman's body is hers to do with as she pleases, and if for whatever reason she does not want to give birth to the fetus growing inside her, she does not have to, and should not be forced to. Do I think abortions should be used as birth control? Hell no. Do I think they're something that should at all be taken lightly? Hell no. Are they something that should be avoided if it at all possible? Absolutely. However, if a woman does not want to give birth, she will likely find a way to have an abortion-- whether it is legal or not. I would rather it be kept safe and available than put women's lives in danger by making them resort to extremes.

I'm going to clarify and say this: I DO NOT THINK ALL CHRISTIANS BELIEVE THIS OR HOLD THESE OPINIONS. I would absolutely vote for a Christian, so long as they were pro-choice, pro-equality, and secular, because these are things that are important to me, just like I would not vote for an atheist who was against them. Really, the only reason I say my ideal presidential candidate is an atheist is because a) I'm an atheist and I think having an atheist in office would be extremely awesome, b) on paper, every single US president has, so far, been Christian (I say "on paper" because there is significant debate about the real religious leanings of several of the founding fathers, and I am personally of the opinion that many were actually deists), and c) I personally don't think that religion has any place in the US government, which was founded and built upon secularism. That said, I would also be super thrilled about a Muslim president. Or a Jewish president. Or a Buddhist president. Or a Pagan president. Or a Deist president. Really, I'd just like to mix up the religious atmosphere in US politics, which has unfairly been centered around Christianity for far too long for a country that is supposed to be secular and open to all religious views, and non-discriminatory based on those views.

Which segues into my next point, though this is more personal and less political: there is a definite stigma against atheists in the US today. Atheists were polled as the most distrusted minority in America, which to me is both shocking and yet completely expected. As George H.W. Bush was quoted in saying, "No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." An atheist president would also no doubt help the atheist movement, where so many people are afraid to "come out of the closet" with their beliefs (warning: article contains swearing), and I don't feel I need to mention again that discrimination against another person based on their religious beliefs (or lack thereof) is a violation of their First Amendment rights, and therefore classically un-American. Having a leader who was unapologetically atheist would, in my opinion, be a huge step forward to bettering the general public's attitude toward their fellow citizens whose only difference from them is a different belief system-- a belief that does not (or at least should not) affect anyone other than themselves.

This was... a lot longer than I expected it to be, and I am deeply, deeply sorry if any of this is offensive to anyone, I truly don't mean it to be. But that's my reasoning in a nutshell! Also, I'm definitely sure Ron Paul would have different views were he not a Christian, as many of his views are based in his belief in God. That's actually a really interesting thing to think about, would he have more or fewer followers if he were an atheist? I definitely think that he would have a radically different group of people championing him, and for all I know it may actually be larger than his following now, as non-religious people in the US take up over 16% of the population (taking the place as the second-largest religious group in the country) and are vastly under-represented, and would therefore probably flock to someone who shared their views. On the flip-side, I'm sure there would also be a large portion of the American people who would consider him crazy, amoral and/or unfit to lead, but again, it would a vastly different group from any who may currently hold any of those feelings.

I'm going to stop typing before this becomes unreadable, haha. Sorry for the length.

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #107 on: November 21, 2011, 05:25:48 am »
Thank you for an amazingly well-spoken post. :)
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Offline jaqua

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #108 on: November 21, 2011, 05:56:16 am »
Thank you for an amazingly well-spoken post. :)


Offline Chibachi Nero

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #109 on: November 21, 2011, 10:18:32 am »
...I was going to add something, but jaqua you just said everything I would have said, so I'll just leave it at "seconded".

Offline jaqua

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #110 on: November 21, 2011, 04:13:03 pm »
Ahhhhhhhhhh thanks you guys!!!

Offline Malaria

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #111 on: November 21, 2011, 06:26:09 pm »
You're all coherent and politically engaged! So awesome. /gold star


I thought this Matt Taibbi article on OWS was really cool. It takes a look at the movement's core complaints from a hardline economic standpoint. It's got facts and stuff! Facts are cool.

Here's a quote from the beginning to entice you into actually reading it.
Quote
"Well, I heard they're trying to decide what bank to put their money in," he said, munching on hors d'oeuvres. "It's just kind of ironic."

Oh, Christ, I thought. He’s saying the protesters are hypocrites because they’re using banks. I sighed.

"Listen," I said, "where else are you going to put three hundred thousand dollars? A shopping bag?"

"Well," he said, "it's just, their protests are all about... You know..."

"Dude," I said. "These people aren't protesting money. They're not protesting banking. They're protesting corruption on Wall Street."

Other things with cool facts that everyone should consume: Miss Representation. It's a documentary which discusses the media's role in shaping the self-image, ambitions and career possibilities of women. It also talks about men, but to a lesser extent. The whole thing was pretty much bang on and made me cry actual tears of sympathetic frustration at some parts. Here's a trailer. It's about 8 minutes long, and has Condoleezza Rice in it. Condi Rice is totally an incentive.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 06:26:39 pm by Malaria »
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Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #112 on: November 21, 2011, 06:56:59 pm »
Mitt Romney is not a marionette for anyone. He was a businessman who understands how the private sector works.


I'm so glad to know you didn't vote for Barry.

As far as not being owned by anyone, well, Mitt Romney has received more money from lobbyists than any of the other candidates combined: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/10/mitt-romney-lobbyists_n_923323.html?ref=fb&src=sp  and he is generously being doused by Wall Street money: http://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/contrib.php?id=N00000286&cycle=2012   http://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/contriball.php?cycle=2012



But I firmly believe the Ron Paul would use and manipulate our sytem if made president to make himself esstentially president for life/dictator.


Please, enlighten me! I would love to know how a champion of the constitution (libertarian, no less) would engage in this type of behavior. 

There was a lot of other stuff about Romney I was going to post, but I like to encourage people to do their own research. I can PM them to you, if you like, though.

Okay big problem there lass. Blogs like that have information that is at best...questionable. My experience has taught me this numbers can be doctored. And The Huffington Post in noted for havinag more than a few...fabrications. ANd as for Open Secrets.org it's known to be associated  with CNN and ABC News, and because of that I question the numbers and information they're producing.

The example I gave awhile back dear lady how he believes that the American Dollar should be replaced by gold and the gold standard restored. When in facact the  constitutional amendment CLEARLY states that the states shall simply not prodice their own currnecy. Not to mention the doesn't believe in the seperation of church and state> Now make no mistake I know we're a Christian country...but the other portion of that story is we're a country comprised of differing sects of Christianity all sorts of other beliefs. Think about it, Maryland was founded by Catholics...Mary land as in the Land of the Virgin Mary. The thing is the seperation of chruch and state works two-fold, iit protects not only the state from the church...it protects the church from the state allowing for differing sects of Christianity to be able to worship on main Street U.S.A> Up and above all eklse we don't need a church of the United States of AMerica. ANd unfortunately Ron paul doesn't belive in that necessary seperation. In fact he rationalizes his beliefs by misinterpreting the constitution yet again.  Those are just two examples of how Ron paul would manipulate the constitution and would even go as far as to dissolve the House and Senate via "Constitutional" means and declare himself President for life/Dictator of the U.S.

Like i said question the information and question the people giving out that information.
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Offline Malaria

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #113 on: November 21, 2011, 07:23:05 pm »
If you find ABC and CNN skewed and untrustworthy, who do you get your information from?
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Offline jaqua

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #114 on: November 21, 2011, 08:03:03 pm »
Quote from: Animeman73
Now make no mistake I know we're a Christian country...

Uhhhhh, except

« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 08:04:32 pm by jaqua »

Offline jaqua

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #115 on: November 21, 2011, 08:11:19 pm »
You're all coherent and politically engaged! So awesome. /gold star


I thought this Matt Taibbi article on OWS was really cool. It takes a look at the movement's core complaints from a hardline economic standpoint. It's got facts and stuff! Facts are cool.

Here's a quote from the beginning to entice you into actually reading it.
Quote
"Well, I heard they're trying to decide what bank to put their money in," he said, munching on hors d'oeuvres. "It's just kind of ironic."

Oh, Christ, I thought. He’s saying the protesters are hypocrites because they’re using banks. I sighed.

"Listen," I said, "where else are you going to put three hundred thousand dollars? A shopping bag?"

"Well," he said, "it's just, their protests are all about... You know..."

"Dude," I said. "These people aren't protesting money. They're not protesting banking. They're protesting corruption on Wall Street."

Other things with cool facts that everyone should consume: Miss Representation. It's a documentary which discusses the media's role in shaping the self-image, ambitions and career possibilities of women. It also talks about men, but to a lesser extent. The whole thing was pretty much bang on and made me cry actual tears of sympathetic frustration at some parts. Here's a trailer. It's about 8 minutes long, and has Condoleezza Rice in it. Condi Rice is totally an incentive.

I have my rare moments of eloquence! I've learned to save them for when they're necessary because I'm a bumbling idiot most of the time.

THANK YOU FOR THAT ARTICLE AHHHHH I was having a discussion with my mom about the OWS movement and her biggest gripe was that there weren't any clear aims, so she couldn't take it seriously. NOW I CAN MAKE HER READ THIS.

Miss Representation is so gooooooood. Ugh I love feminist documentaries almost as much as atheist ones (which is really saying something).

Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #116 on: November 21, 2011, 08:29:59 pm »
Ahh grnted we have a seperation of church and state to ensure that there's no one ruling church  jaqua, but let's be honest we are a nation that was founded by differring sects of Christianity. But we were founded with the idea that people should be free to believe what they will so long as those belief do not involve bringing harm to others. Those are actually based on Christian ideals. I'm not a chruch goer but I believe in the goodness of Christianity itself. Just because we're a Christian nation doesn't mean that we have to think one way or another. that's another beauty we have in this country...freedom of thought.

On the Same Sex marriage thing i have a revolutionary idea, LET THE INDIVIDUAL CONGREGATIONS DECIDE. Don't have in federal Government oreven the states decide. SInce this country believes in freedom of religion...then let's let then individual congregations deccide their own fate. That's the great thing about this country no matter who we are we have the right to decide our own fate, make our own choices, and live with the consequences.
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Offline Malaria

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #117 on: November 21, 2011, 08:56:52 pm »
Ahh grnted we have a seperation of church and state to ensure that there's no one ruling church  jaqua, but let's be honest we are a nation that was founded by differring sects of Christianity. But we were founded with the idea that people should be free to believe what they will so long as those belief do not involve bringing harm to others. Those are actually based on Christian ideals. I'm not a chruch goer but I believe in the goodness of Christianity itself. Just because we're a Christian nation doesn't mean that we have to think one way or another. that's another beauty we have in this country...freedom of thought.
It's really narrow to say that pluralism is explicitly Christian, especially since it's a principle that is only practiced by some Christians and really really not practiced by many others. American pluralism owes a lot to political philosophers like John Locke and Jean Jacques Rousseau. And while there may have been a lot of different Christian sects on the continent at the time, none of the framing legal documents of the United States include Christian references.

The only possibly-related document which presupposes a god (and not even an explicitly Judeo-Christian god) is the Declaration of Independence, which is not legally binding in any way and plays no part in the legislative, executive or judicial institutions of the nation.

Quote
On the Same Sex marriage thing i have a revolutionary idea, LET THE INDIVIDUAL CONGREGATIONS DECIDE. Don't have in federal Government oreven the states decide. SInce this country believes in freedom of religion...then let's let then individual congregations deccide their own fate. That's the great thing about this country no matter who we are we have the right to decide our own fate, make our own choices, and live with the consequences.
I fully agree that congregations should be able to determine who they will marry under their roof, but that's ignoring all the legal privileges associated with marriage. A legally married couple is next of kin, power of attorney, has hospital visitation rights, can more easily share bank accounts and mortgages and debts. These are matters of state government, and the church should not be the gatekeeper for access to these government services.

The churches can't be allowed to be the sole arbiters of marriage because not everyone has a religious marriage, either. Jaqua and I obviously wouldn't be interested in a church marriage since we're both atheists (and church ceremonies give me hives). Assuming we still wanted the symbolic value of an official wedding, we would need someone to officiate our marriage who is not a member of any clergy. (edit: accidentally implying Jaqua and I are getting married? OR ON PURPOSE IMPLYING?)

And if for no other reason, marriage should not be entrusted wholly to Christian congregations because it has never been an exclusively Christian institution. It's been around since Christianity was a twinkle in Constantine's shamelessly-revising eye. (Totally non-accidental implication that Christianity has a really problematic theological history.)
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 09:02:10 pm by Malaria »
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Offline jaqua

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #118 on: November 21, 2011, 09:57:17 pm »
Ahh grnted we have a seperation of church and state to ensure that there's no one ruling church  jaqua, but let's be honest we are a nation that was founded by differring sects of Christianity. But we were founded with the idea that people should be free to believe what they will so long as those belief do not involve bringing harm to others. Those are actually based on Christian ideals. I'm not a chruch goer but I believe in the goodness of Christianity itself. Just because we're a Christian nation doesn't mean that we have to think one way or another. that's another beauty we have in this country...freedom of thought.
It's really narrow to say that pluralism is explicitly Christian, especially since it's a principle that is only practiced by some Christians and really really not practiced by many others. American pluralism owes a lot to political philosophers like John Locke and Jean Jacques Rousseau. And while there may have been a lot of different Christian sects on the continent at the time, none of the framing legal documents of the United States include Christian references.

The only possibly-related document which presupposes a god (and not even an explicitly Judeo-Christian god) is the Declaration of Independence, which is not legally binding in any way and plays no part in the legislative, executive or judicial institutions of the nation.

This. Just because a nation was built BY people who held specific beliefs, does not mean it was made FOR those beliefs explicitly. The United States was created to be completely secular. The fact that the common people apparently no longer understand this shows how far it's strayed from this original ideal.

Also, to say that people are free what they want to believe and that this is a Christian idea is kind of denying every other religion who hold those claims, many of which I'm certain are also practiced in this country. Are they considered "lesser than" just because they have fewer followers? Also, to say that even though "we are a Christian nation doesn't mean we have to think one way or another" may be what you believe, but I'm sure there are lots and lots of very Christian Americans who would use your idea of a Christian nation to justify the vilification of anyone who doesn't share their faith, since obviously if you don't hold the same beliefs as the majority of your fellow citizens you don't belong there. It's similar to the "If you don't speak English, get out of my country!" argument, even though historically America has always been a nation for immigrants, by immigrants, and has never declared itself to have an official language... Just like it has no national religion.

Quote
On the Same Sex marriage thing i have a revolutionary idea, LET THE INDIVIDUAL CONGREGATIONS DECIDE. Don't have in federal Government oreven the states decide. SInce this country believes in freedom of religion...then let's let then individual congregations deccide their own fate. That's the great thing about this country no matter who we are we have the right to decide our own fate, make our own choices, and live with the consequences.
I fully agree that congregations should be able to determine who they will marry under their roof, but that's ignoring all the legal privileges associated with marriage. A legally married couple is next of kin, power of attorney, has hospital visitation rights, can more easily share bank accounts and mortgages and debts. These are matters of state government, and the church should not be the gatekeeper for access to these government services.

The churches can't be allowed to be the sole arbiters of marriage because not everyone has a religious marriage, either. Jaqua and I obviously wouldn't be interested in a church marriage since we're both atheists (and church ceremonies give me hives). Assuming we still wanted the symbolic value of an official wedding, we would need someone to officiate our marriage who is not a member of any clergy. (edit: accidentally implying Jaqua and I are getting married? OR ON PURPOSE IMPLYING?)

And if for no other reason, marriage should not be entrusted wholly to Christian congregations because it has never been an exclusively Christian institution. It's been around since Christianity was a twinkle in Constantine's shamelessly-revising eye. (Totally non-accidental implication that Christianity has a really problematic theological history.)

Also agreeing with a congregation's right to choose, and also agreeing that the church should not dictate marriage as a whole. A church would be a literal last resort for a location if ever I were to marry, because to me (feelings about religion aside) marriage isn't about being united in the eyes of a god, it's about trusting another person with half of your life. Not to mention the Christianity (and in fairness, other religions as well) of the past meant that marriage made your wife and her belongings your property, not your equal, and as a feminist that doesn't give me happy feelings. Obviously these practices and beliefs are outdated and no longer applicable to (most of) modern society, but it doesn't help me shake the knowledge of it.

Marriage, to me, should be between two consenting adults, regardless of gender, gender identity, or sexual preference. (like me and malaria wait what)

Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #119 on: November 22, 2011, 08:16:29 am »

But I firmly believe the Ron Paul would use and manipulate our sytem if made president to make himself esstentially president for life/dictator.


I'm afraid I still have not seen you explain this, or provide links to anything Ron Paul has written/said/supports that would suggest this.


Not to mention the doesn't believe in the seperation of church and state


Or this.


In fact he rationalizes his beliefs by misinterpreting the constitution yet again.


Or this.

Additionally,

Quote from: Animeman73 link=topic=15
how he believes that the American Dollar should be replaced by gold and the gold standard restored. When in facact the  constitutional amendment CLEARLY states that the states shall simply not prodice their own currnecy.


The statements you are making here are contradicting each other. The Constitution also says that that states are not allowed to use anything as legal tender unless it's backed by silver and gold. http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec10.html  So, really, going back to the gold standard would be following the Constitution. Yes, you've stated your objections to this, but you have failed to provide satisfactory explanations.

Thus far, all I have seen from you are statements of opinion and not any links that would help me understand how exactly Ron Paul would mistinterpret the constitution and "declare himself a dictator". Statements like "Not to mention the doesn't believe in the seperation of church and state" without any links or evidence to back up your claims do not really help me to understand your point at all.

Furthermore,


ANd as for Open Secrets.org it's known to be associated  with CNN and ABC News, and because of that I question the numbers and information they're producing.


Can you provide proof of this? A link? An article you read? Something! I'm starting to feel like a broken record.

OpenSecrets.org is a nonprofit organization that seeks to keep politicians accountable. While you are right that sometimes blogs can be shady, they can also be highly accurate and provide the public with information that otherwise would not be made available through mainstream media.

Thus far, I feel as though you have failed to back up your claims using anything other than your own opinion.
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Offline Chibachi Nero

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #120 on: November 22, 2011, 11:45:02 am »
Quote
On the Same Sex marriage thing i have a revolutionary idea, LET THE INDIVIDUAL CONGREGATIONS DECIDE. Don't have in federal Government oreven the states decide. SInce this country believes in freedom of religion...then let's let then individual congregations deccide their own fate. That's the great thing about this country no matter who we are we have the right to decide our own fate, make our own choices, and live with the consequences.
I fully agree that congregations should be able to determine who they will marry under their roof, but that's ignoring all the legal privileges associated with marriage. A legally married couple is next of kin, power of attorney, has hospital visitation rights, can more easily share bank accounts and mortgages and debts. These are matters of state government, and the church should not be the gatekeeper for access to these government services.

The churches can't be allowed to be the sole arbiters of marriage because not everyone has a religious marriage, either. Jaqua and I obviously wouldn't be interested in a church marriage since we're both atheists (and church ceremonies give me hives). Assuming we still wanted the symbolic value of an official wedding, we would need someone to officiate our marriage who is not a member of any clergy. (edit: accidentally implying Jaqua and I are getting married? OR ON PURPOSE IMPLYING?)

And if for no other reason, marriage should not be entrusted wholly to Christian congregations because it has never been an exclusively Christian institution. It's been around since Christianity was a twinkle in Constantine's shamelessly-revising eye. (Totally non-accidental implication that Christianity has a really problematic theological history.)

Also agreeing with a congregation's right to choose, and also agreeing that the church should not dictate marriage as a whole. A church would be a literal last resort for a location if ever I were to marry, because to me (feelings about religion aside) marriage isn't about being united in the eyes of a god, it's about trusting another person with half of your life. Not to mention the Christianity (and in fairness, other religions as well) of the past meant that marriage made your wife and her belongings your property, not your equal, and as a feminist that doesn't give me happy feelings. Obviously these practices and beliefs are outdated and no longer applicable to (most of) modern society, but it doesn't help me shake the knowledge of it.

Marriage, to me, should be between two consenting adults, regardless of gender, gender identity, or sexual preference. (like me and malaria wait what)

If anyone here has read the comic book Ex Machina (and if you haven't you should, it's great) the main character has the best idea I've ever heard when it comes to marriage: stop having the government give out "marriage licenses". We need to separate legal marriage and religious marriage. Have the government give out civil unions to any pair (or more, but I doubt that'll happen anytime soon) of consenting adults who want them. These unions would provide all the legal rights and obligations of marriage licenses to whoever has one. And then those people are free to get married as a religious ceremony at whatever congregation will have them. This gets rid of the religiously charged term "marriage" and focuses the debate where it should be, on the rights of individuals.

I sincerely doubt it will happen in my lifetime, but it always made sense to me.

Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #121 on: November 22, 2011, 07:35:47 pm »
HalcyonFour: Oh but it is. And actually I've been quite clear and this is where this Moderate Democrats, Republicans, and Libertarians tend to differ and not be able to communicate with one another. But he short of it is i can tell you for a fact Ron Paul will not now, nor will he EVER be president of the United States. His ideas are too far out there andd those ideas pay too little attention to the consequences of what happens if they're put in place to ever be used. And here's another point where Ron Paul and i disagree. he thinks we should get rid of the Patriot ACt I happen to think it's necessary. Consider this since we created the Patriot Act since 9/11 we have not had a single terrorist attack on our Home soil....not one.

As to where i get my information I take a little from Fox and little bit from MSNBC and search for the truth between the lines. AS I've so often said an arguement is a three edged sword there's your side, his side, and then there's the truth.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2011, 10:01:33 pm by Animeman73 »
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Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #122 on: November 22, 2011, 09:20:00 pm »
HalcyonFour: Oh but it is.

What is?

And actually I've been quite clear

No, you have not. You have failed to provide any links backing up your claims for your beliefs about Ron Paul. I am still waiting for them.

But he short of it is i can tell you for a fact Ron paul will not now, nor will he EVER be president of the United States.

When he wins Iowa, then let's have a talk.

His ideas are too far out there

I'm sorry. I didn't know that obeying the constitution, and defending my rights and civil liberties constituted being "too far out there"!




As to where i get my information I take a little from Fox and little bit from MSNBC and search for the truth between the lines. AS I've so often said an arguement is a three edged sword there's your side, his side, and then there's the truth.

So in other words, you have limited yourself to the mainstream media without doing any relevant digging.

Best of luck. I seriously tried.

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Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #123 on: November 22, 2011, 09:39:07 pm »
Also, maybe someone can answer this (completely unrelated to politics):

How the heck do you get photos and things on your signature?! I tried, but I guess my coding was really off. Do you use Photobucket or something?
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Offline jaqua

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #124 on: November 22, 2011, 09:45:34 pm »
Quote
On the Same Sex marriage thing i have a revolutionary idea, LET THE INDIVIDUAL CONGREGATIONS DECIDE. Don't have in federal Government oreven the states decide. SInce this country believes in freedom of religion...then let's let then individual congregations deccide their own fate. That's the great thing about this country no matter who we are we have the right to decide our own fate, make our own choices, and live with the consequences.
I fully agree that congregations should be able to determine who they will marry under their roof, but that's ignoring all the legal privileges associated with marriage. A legally married couple is next of kin, power of attorney, has hospital visitation rights, can more easily share bank accounts and mortgages and debts. These are matters of state government, and the church should not be the gatekeeper for access to these government services.

The churches can't be allowed to be the sole arbiters of marriage because not everyone has a religious marriage, either. Jaqua and I obviously wouldn't be interested in a church marriage since we're both atheists (and church ceremonies give me hives). Assuming we still wanted the symbolic value of an official wedding, we would need someone to officiate our marriage who is not a member of any clergy. (edit: accidentally implying Jaqua and I are getting married? OR ON PURPOSE IMPLYING?)

And if for no other reason, marriage should not be entrusted wholly to Christian congregations because it has never been an exclusively Christian institution. It's been around since Christianity was a twinkle in Constantine's shamelessly-revising eye. (Totally non-accidental implication that Christianity has a really problematic theological history.)

Also agreeing with a congregation's right to choose, and also agreeing that the church should not dictate marriage as a whole. A church would be a literal last resort for a location if ever I were to marry, because to me (feelings about religion aside) marriage isn't about being united in the eyes of a god, it's about trusting another person with half of your life. Not to mention the Christianity (and in fairness, other religions as well) of the past meant that marriage made your wife and her belongings your property, not your equal, and as a feminist that doesn't give me happy feelings. Obviously these practices and beliefs are outdated and no longer applicable to (most of) modern society, but it doesn't help me shake the knowledge of it.

Marriage, to me, should be between two consenting adults, regardless of gender, gender identity, or sexual preference. (like me and malaria wait what)

If anyone here has read the comic book Ex Machina (and if you haven't you should, it's great) the main character has the best idea I've ever heard when it comes to marriage: stop having the government give out "marriage licenses". We need to separate legal marriage and religious marriage. Have the government give out civil unions to any pair (or more, but I doubt that'll happen anytime soon) of consenting adults who want them. These unions would provide all the legal rights and obligations of marriage licenses to whoever has one. And then those people are free to get married as a religious ceremony at whatever congregation will have them. This gets rid of the religiously charged term "marriage" and focuses the debate where it should be, on the rights of individuals.

I sincerely doubt it will happen in my lifetime, but it always made sense to me.

Holy snap that would be awesome. That's exactly the system I'd like best.

Offline jaqua

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #125 on: November 22, 2011, 09:47:58 pm »
Also, maybe someone can answer this (completely unrelated to politics):

How the heck do you get photos and things on your signature?! I tried, but I guess my coding was really off. Do you use Photobucket or something?

Photobucket is an option! Just put the direct web address to the image you want between [ img ] [ /img ] brackets (though obviously without the spaces).

Offline jaqua

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #126 on: November 22, 2011, 09:56:00 pm »
he thinks we should get rid of the Patriot ACt I happen to think it's necessary. Consider this since we created the Patriot ACt since 9/11 we have not had a single terrorist attack on our Home soil....not one.

Yes we have.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2011, 09:58:56 pm by jaqua »

Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #127 on: November 22, 2011, 10:02:57 pm »
Jaqua, the Democratic Underground is painfully biased.  And as I said numbers and even so-called facts can be doctoreed.
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Offline Malaria

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #128 on: November 22, 2011, 10:19:48 pm »
You clearly have a different philosophical view of truth than the rest of us. Bias doesn't mean everything is lies. It means it cares about specific information, and will gather and orient itself around that information. Feminist blogs have a feminist bias; that doesn't mean they will always consciously lie to support their own political point of view. It means they will be interested in stories and information that has to do with feminist issues. A blog about the effects of generational poverty is going to care about poverty statistics. No one is ever totally unbiased. Objectivity is a joke.

Did you even look at the sources on Jaqua's links? DU is clearly acting as in information gathering and organizing service, rather than a provider of raw data. The sources are all NYT and Reuters. The New York Times is the paper of record in the United States. If you can't rust the paper of record, there really is nothing left for you but personal experiential data.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2011, 10:20:38 pm by Malaria »
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Offline jaqua

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #129 on: November 22, 2011, 10:21:57 pm »
... Except I remember when the "Underwear Bomber" was national news, are you telling me that you don't? Because that speaks more to you being out-of-touch with the news rather than me "fabricating" it. Besides, you said earlier you watch Fox News, which-- since you obviously don't know-- is EXTREMELY BIASED. It's gotten tons of flack for its outright and blatant fabrication of the very real sort.

If you're going to disregard my information as false, you should also be discarding Fox as false. Just saying. (and I don't know why I'm even bothering to do your research for you, since you're obviously not bothering to read these links.)

Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #130 on: November 22, 2011, 10:41:51 pm »
Also, maybe someone can answer this (completely unrelated to politics):

How the heck do you get photos and things on your signature?! I tried, but I guess my coding was really off. Do you use Photobucket or something?

Photobucket is an option! Just put the direct web address to the image you want between [ img ] [ /img ] brackets (though obviously without the spaces).

Is that what you do?
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Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #131 on: November 22, 2011, 10:45:29 pm »
... Except I remember when the "Underwear Bomber" was national news, are you telling me that you don't? Because that speaks more to you being out-of-touch with the news rather than me "fabricating" it. Besides, you said earlier you watch Fox News, which-- since you obviously don't know-- is EXTREMELY BIASED. It's gotten tons of flack for its outright and blatant fabrication of the very real sort.

If you're going to disregard my information as false, you should also be discarding Fox as false. Just saying. (and I don't know why I'm even bothering to do your research for you, since you're obviously not bothering to read these links.)

OMG thank you so much! It takes me so much time to find links to back up what I'm saying...and I never get a single one.

Animeman73, I really wish you would reconsider what you're saying. You state:

Jaqua, the Democratic Underground is painfully biased.  And as I said numbers and even so-called facts can be doctoreed.

Yet you refuse to acknowledge that your news sources are biased...do you honestly believe that Fox and CNN and the like are not biased at all?
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Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #132 on: November 22, 2011, 10:47:46 pm »
Objectivity is a joke.


I second that.
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Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #133 on: November 22, 2011, 10:53:48 pm »
fabrication


HOLY WOW, DUDE! I did NOT know about LMGTFY.  Thank you SO much for this!
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Offline jaqua

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #134 on: November 22, 2011, 11:10:11 pm »
Also, maybe someone can answer this (completely unrelated to politics):

How the heck do you get photos and things on your signature?! I tried, but I guess my coding was really off. Do you use Photobucket or something?

Photobucket is an option! Just put the direct web address to the image you want between [ img ] [ /img ] brackets (though obviously without the spaces).

Is that what you do?

Yeah! You take your link, in this example http://images2.dailykos.com/images/user/8411/Foxlive_20090727.jpg, and put it between brackets like this, [ img ] http://images2.dailykos.com/images/user/8411/Foxlive_20090727.jpg [ /img ], and then you get this!



(I feel this image keeps it relevant to the thread-- what's wrong with it, can anyone tell?)

Offline jaqua

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #135 on: November 22, 2011, 11:11:25 pm »
fabrication


HOLY WOW, DUDE! I did NOT know about LMGTFY.  Thank you SO much for this!

i love lmgtfy so much *-*

Offline Malaria

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #136 on: November 22, 2011, 11:16:39 pm »


(I feel this image keeps it relevant to the thread-- what's wrong with it, can anyone tell?)
Egypt decided to switch places with Iraq for some reason?
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Offline jaqua

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #137 on: November 22, 2011, 11:27:56 pm »


(I feel this image keeps it relevant to the thread-- what's wrong with it, can anyone tell?)
Egypt decided to switch places with Iraq for some reason?


Yep! This was an image shown on Fox News. The fact that no one caught it is a little telling of the general population working at the "news" station. Though actually, since this was shown during the Egyptian rebellion, this may have been on purpose to try and discredit their movement (since obviously everyone in the middle east is an extremist Muslim and terrorist and America shouldn't help in any way).

Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #138 on: November 23, 2011, 12:11:20 am »
I seriously tried that with the images and it did not work. I guess I'll try again.

And yeah, shame on Fox for the Egypt thing. I wonder if they did it on purpose, to see how many people would catch it.
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Offline jaqua

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #139 on: November 24, 2011, 07:48:03 pm »
It didn't? Oh no! Are you using a direct to image link? I think on Photobucket there's a direct [ img ] link you can use, in the little popup to links under the picture.

I ran across this in my tumblr feed today, and I thought I would post it because it's relevant to recent discussions.

Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #140 on: November 25, 2011, 01:59:03 am »
It didn't? Oh no! Are you using a direct to image link? I think on Photobucket there's a direct [ img ] link you can use, in the little popup to links under the picture.

I ran across this in my tumblr feed today, and I thought I would post it because it's relevant to recent discussions.

BAHAHAHAHA!

I totally was going to post this, too! But I decided not to, lol.
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Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #141 on: November 25, 2011, 02:17:23 am »
Yeah! You take your link, in this example http://images2.dailykos.com/images/user/8411/Foxlive_20090727.jpg, and put it between brackets like this, [ img ] http://images2.dailykos.com/images/user/8411/Foxlive_20090727.jpg [ /img ], and then you get this!




Thank you, good sir.

I finally realized the problem; my code WAS working, but the pictures just don't show up on the profile settings page. However, they do show up on the actual signature. In any event, thanks. Now I can sport my fancy Ron Paul banner.
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Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #142 on: November 25, 2011, 03:50:48 pm »
You're welcome to your opinions everyone but the fact still remains Ron Paul will NOT win the Republican primary norr will he EVER be president. The man has ideals that are not only too extereme but the guy is totally disinegenuous. I've read a lot of history na di knopw that tyrants and wannabe tyrants can be very appealing but when their agenda is closely scrutinized it comes out still the same. Rom paul definitely fits a lot of those categories.

And here's another reason Ron Paul won't win. His attitude concerning th Patriot act and Iran are very naive to the point of dangerous. Iran has Islamist Mullahs who are running it and AChmedinijad 9Sp) has all the makings for the next Adolph Hitler. Now if they get their hands on a nuclear device than bad things will happen I guarentee it. Islamists are not the sort of people you can sit by a fiore with a sing "Kumbaya". No Iran's people should be encouraged to ruise up against the fanatics in power that much is very true. But we also need to take a firm stance against the Iranian government. Not by negotiation but with a subtle military force amd working with Isreal. And thanks to the Patriot act as I said how many attack have there been against this country from terrorisyts since 9/11, none, nada, zip, zilch, zero. Any attem[pts made against us have been as the old cowboy expression goes "Headed off at the pass". I've heard it said often that the Patriotyt ACt is oppresive and they make mention of that one poor fellow who was nowhere near Spain at the time of the bomb attack. Granted the Patriot ACt isn't perfect, but hey that's the beauty about it, like this country the patriot act always has room for improvement.

Another oproblem I have with Ronn Paul I can sum up in one name, Isreal. Isreal is one of the U,.S.'s closest allies in that region. We should be working closely with them not condeming them.  fifor defending themselves. If he turn our backs on Isreal that will be considered by the rest of the world probably the biggest ever schmuck move we could make. We need to maintain our close ties with Isreal up and above all else.

That's just the way i see things you don't like well...the U.s. contarary to what a lot of folks think is STILL a free-thinking country.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2011, 03:56:58 pm by Animeman73 »
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Offline Chibachi Nero

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #143 on: November 25, 2011, 06:40:20 pm »
Another oproblem I have with Ronn Paul I can sum up in one name, Isreal. Isreal is one of the U,.S.'s closest allies in that region. We should be working closely with them not condeming them.  fifor defending themselves. If he turn our backs on Isreal that will be considered by the rest of the world probably the biggest ever schmuck move we could make. We need to maintain our close ties with Isreal up and above all else.

That's just the way i see things you don't like well...the U.s. contarary to what a lot of folks think is STILL a free-thinking country.

I'm sorry, but...I can't agree with you regarding Israel. The way the Israeli government is treating Palestine is wrong. Palestine is not free from blame, but neither is Israel. Israel has been persecuted, but that doesn't give them a right to persecute others. Both groups need to be willing to compromise a bit, and they need to figure out how to make a two-state solution work, because it's the only proposal being floated that doesn't leave someone oppressed. And the US government needs to be clear on this; that we will not stand for opression, and if it continues Israel risks losing its ties to the US.

Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #144 on: November 25, 2011, 09:20:13 pm »
You're welcome to your opinions everyone but the fact still remains Ron Paul will NOT win the Republican primary norr will he EVER be president. The man has ideals that are not only too extereme but the guy is totally disinegenuous. I've read a lot of history na di knopw that tyrants and wannabe tyrants can be very appealing but when their agenda is closely scrutinized it comes out still the same. Rom paul definitely fits a lot of those categories.

Once again, please provide links and real arguments about these "categories" you are speaking about.

And here's another reason Ron Paul won't win. His attitude concerning th Patriot act and Iran are very naive to the point of dangerous. Iran has Islamist Mullahs who are running it and AChmedinijad 9Sp) has all the makings for the next Adolph Hitler. Now if they get their hands on a nuclear device than bad things will happen I guarentee it. Islamists are not the sort of people you can sit by a fiore with a sing "Kumbaya". No Iran's people should be encouraged to ruise up against the fanatics in power that much is very true. But we also need to take a firm stance against the Iranian government. Not by negotiation but with a subtle military force amd working with Isreal. And thanks to the Patriot act as I said how many attack have there been against this country from terrorisyts since 9/11, none, nada, zip, zilch, zero. Any attem[pts made against us have been as the old cowboy expression goes "Headed off at the pass". I've heard it said often that the Patriotyt ACt is oppresive and they make mention of that one poor fellow who was nowhere near Spain at the time of the bomb attack. Granted the Patriot ACt isn't perfect, but hey that's the beauty about it, like this country the patriot act always has room for improvement.

Propaganda. You obviously didn't read Jaqua's post, because he provided some examples about how we HAVE been attacked by terrorists since 9/11.

Another oproblem I have with Ronn Paul I can sum up in one name, Isreal. Isreal is one of the U,.S.'s closest allies in that region. We should be working closely with them not condeming them.  fifor defending themselves. If he turn our backs on Isreal that will be considered by the rest of the world probably the biggest ever schmuck move we could make. We need to maintain our close ties with Isreal up and above all else.



No. Just...no. The United States gives more aid to Egypt than it does Israel. Israel has nuclear weapons, they can take care of themselves. There is absolutely no proof that Iran has or is building nuclear weapons. Remember what happened with Iraq and the WMDs? We just HAD to go over there to start a war, didn't we? And it turned out that Saddam Hussein had no ties to Al-Qaeda. It was all LIES, all WAR PROPAGANDA, and now it's the same story with Iran. History repeats itself. We NEED to go to war, NEED to get involved before they blow us up...

The Israelis are the ones promoting war in the Middle East, by the way, by threatening to bomb Iran by the end of the year and increasing their illegal settlements. My Palestinian grandparents were ousted from their own homes in 1948. My grandmother had to spend her Easter homeless and in a cave because the Israelis threatened to kill them all if they didn't leave the land (google Deir Yassin massacres). And the Israelis continue building their settlements and propagating their segregation. Did you know that they literally have "Arab roads" and "Jewish roads" in Israel? This is akin to the black-white segregation the United States had in the South. Life is horrible for the Palestinians, and it won't get better because both sides have been burnt by the other.

How much do you even read about Middle Eastern politics, dude? I'm sorry, but I'm not buying into the war propaganda. All of this, "Israel is our ally, we should help them"? PLEASE. The Arabs can't even SNEEZE without the United States' approval. The United States has had a very heavy presence in the Middle East, and their alliance with Israel does nothing but exacerbate their relationship with the Arabs. In any event, you are correct in that there is tension in the Middle East: the Arabs are getting sick of our foreign policy, and I don't blame them. So if you believe that Ron Paul's views on foreign policy are "naive", that is your opinion, but I can assure you that he certainly understands Middle-Eastern politics better than the average American.
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Offline jaqua

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #145 on: November 26, 2011, 03:04:11 pm »
Quote from: Animeman73
Islamists are not the sort of people you can sit by a fiore with a sing "Kumbaya".

Look out, your Fox News-induced Islamophobia is showing.

Do you honestly believe that everyone identifying as Muslim holds the same extremist religious views as Al Qaeda, that such extremism is actually just the tenets of their faith? If you do, I'm sorry, you desperately need to educate yourself at a source that doesn't include Islam-bashing in its repertoire.

If anyone has beliefs about the Patriot Act and Iran that "are very naive to the point of dangerous", it is you. I posted links for your convenience to see that yes, we have been experiencing terrorist attacks since 9/11. Just because a majority were stopped doesn't mean they weren't happening. Do you think we never stopped a terrorist attack BEFORE 9/11? Is that what you're implying? That the Patriot Act is the only thing stopping every terrorist plot from coming to fruition? If you do actually believe that, maybe you should actually research your claims before parading them around blindly. I doubt you will because it isn't something you've been doing until now, but I can dream.

I'm not going to comment on anything else because after Halcyon and Nero it'll just be redundant, so...

Quote from: Animeman73
That's just the way i see things you don't like well...the U.s. contarary to what a lot of folks think is STILL a free-thinking country.

I don't think anyone here is saying you're not allowed to hold your own opinions. That's why I love my country, we're all allowed and encouraged to have different beliefs. All we're saying is that we don't think you're researching things as well as you should be, and that honestly the person you'd be doing a favor for in that regard is yourself. At the end of the day it doesn't affect me if you think Muslims are as likely to strap suicide bombs to their chests as they are to shake your hand, it's just making you a less educated person, and lowering the opinions of those around you (unless they are similarly uneducated).

Offline Chibachi Nero

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #146 on: November 26, 2011, 06:27:39 pm »
^ Just a comment on your first point, jaqua, Islamist and Muslim are two very different terms. An Islamist is someone who believes that Islam is both a religion and a political system. Generally, (although the term is somewhat contentious) Islamists emphasize the enforcement of sharia and the elimination of non-Islamic influences (and sometimes people). It's often equated with militants and activists for Islam.

Although I would whole-heartedly agree that Fox News is anti-Islam, extremely biased, and a terrible source for information, I don't think Muslims in general were who Animeman meant here, and (assuming he's aware of the difference in the two terms) he has a somewhat valid point in this particular area.

Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #147 on: November 26, 2011, 10:56:54 pm »
^ Just a comment on your first point, jaqua, Islamist and Muslim are two very different terms. An Islamist is someone who believes that Islam is both a religion and a political system. Generally, (although the term is somewhat contentious) Islamists emphasize the enforcement of sharia and the elimination of non-Islamic influences (and sometimes people). It's often equated with militants and activists for Islam.

Although I would whole-heartedly agree that Fox News is anti-Islam, extremely biased, and a terrible source for information, I don't think Muslims in general were who Animeman meant here, and (assuming he's aware of the difference in the two terms) he has a somewhat valid point in this particular area.

Yes, you are right Chibachi.

I've had long talks with my uncle on Middle-Eastern politics--he spends a lot of time reading about this stuff. There is definitely an Islamist movement going on right now in the sense that you are talking about, but one thing people do not realize is that most of this is not rooted in religion. Though Islam has certainly played a growing role, it started because of threats to national sovereignty, their rights, and general foreign policy from countries like the United States. For example, the Arab-Israeli conflict is often thought to be about religion, but it is not. It is about LAND, resources, and ancestry. If you watch Fox, you'll never be able to glean any of this type of information, so I second what Jaqua said about that, Animeman.
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Offline jaqua

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #148 on: November 27, 2011, 01:37:23 am »
^ Just a comment on your first point, jaqua, Islamist and Muslim are two very different terms. An Islamist is someone who believes that Islam is both a religion and a political system. Generally, (although the term is somewhat contentious) Islamists emphasize the enforcement of sharia and the elimination of non-Islamic influences (and sometimes people). It's often equated with militants and activists for Islam.

Although I would whole-heartedly agree that Fox News is anti-Islam, extremely biased, and a terrible source for information, I don't think Muslims in general were who Animeman meant here, and (assuming he's aware of the difference in the two terms) he has a somewhat valid point in this particular area.

My bad! For some reason Islamist = Islam in my brain up there, so I came to totally the wrong conclusion. Oops. Thank you both so much for correcting me!

Offline Chibachi Nero

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #149 on: November 27, 2011, 01:52:39 am »
^ No problem! It's a fairly common mistake, since Islamist is a less-common term (radical or militant are perhaps the most common) and it's so similar to Islam. I know I've mixed the two up before.

Offline @random

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #150 on: November 27, 2011, 02:30:53 am »
^ I'd be interested in seeing when the modern use of the term originated, and with whom. "Islamism" used to be used as a vaguely-insulting term for Islam, right up there with "Mohammamedanism". It's no wonder that it's often mixed up with "Islam".

(To me the ease with which it causes confusion makes the term dubious at best. It would be just as fair to call the Norway mass-murderer a "Christianist".)
« Last Edit: November 27, 2011, 02:41:19 am by @random »
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Offline Chibachi Nero

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #151 on: November 27, 2011, 02:44:27 am »
According to Wikipedia, it was originally coined by the French in the eighteenth century as a general way of referring to Islam. It gained its current meaning in the 1970s and 1980s with French academia, and was adopted into English around then. It is, as I mentioned, a somewhat contentious term, since its purpose is to separate Islam as a faith from Islam as a political system, and many people whom we might consider Islamists object to the separation of these ideas, and say that they are just Muslims.

Offline Malaria

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #152 on: November 27, 2011, 03:28:40 pm »
We've been talking a lot of about valid news sources and media spin, and I was reminded of this article on the Icelandic bankruptcy. It states that the reason that Iceland is no longer in the news is because it rejected an EU-imposed economic hegemony.

Quote
The belief that citizens had to pay for the mistakes of a financial monopoly, that an entire nation must be taxed to pay off private debts was shattered, transforming the relationship between citizens and their political institutions and eventually driving Iceland’s leaders to the side of their constituents. The Head of State, Olafur Ragnar Grimsson, refused to ratify the law that would have made Iceland’s citizens responsible for its bankers’ debts, and accepted calls for a referendum.

I feel like Iceland's overwhelmingly pro-people response to the banks' financial abuses is the ideal response to Occupy.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2011, 03:30:12 pm by Malaria »
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Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #153 on: December 01, 2011, 08:06:46 pm »
Hello folks I'm back.. I had some problems with my monitor but I got them fixed.

First let me clairify something. The whole accusation of me being racist is absurd. First off Islamsists are indeed what I meant. I do happen to feel that this Islamist mentality is a perversion of Islam, just as the Spanish Inquisition was a perversion of Christianity. For anyone to call me a racist is absurd because you see I am a member of the fiorgotten Miniority...the handicapped and we get (Cough, cough, ahem.) rubbish from all groups. I have been bullied by the Black, the White, the Hispabnic, the Asian...ALL groups.  Does anyone realize that they used to lock people like me up in insane asylums...just because of a genetic defect? Thank God those days are gone. And because of this I've developed some authority figure issues with bullying types.

Fox news is NOT Islamophobic that's more propaganda put out there by people who are haters of Fox news. I grant you this FOX news commentators aren't exactgy the most accurate. Of course not they're giving an opinion. And I happen to especially disagree with FOX news' anti-union stance being that I'm a proud UFCW member. But nonetheless the whole talk of Isreal being part of some massive global war conspiracy is just another conspiracy theory.The questions I pose are these WHO are thse co-called members of the war-mongers conspuiracy, WHAT[/i do they have against the U.S.?, and WHY would they seek to destroy the economy of this country especially considering the fact it would cause them to collapse as well.

Oh and just so you know I've been doing a little studying of the constitution thanks to a little old website that haas the entire constitution in big print that I can read. And well I'm more convinced than ever that what I believe is is correct. You may not see it that way and that's fine, this is a free country. But I've found another reason to believe Ron Paul would never win. Recently a fellow by the name of Dick Morris put out a book for kids on politics featuring a dog. Well Dick Morris called Ron Paul a nut in his book and Ron Paul told his supporters to boycott the book hoping to try and hit Dick Morris in the pocket book. Ironically the exact opposite has happened. Now if Ron Paul would do that on the compaign trail can you imagine what he would do if anyone questioned him while he was in the White House. Chances are he'd use the constitution to have them eiither hanged for "The good of the nation" and he'd twist, filter, and pervert the constittution to do so.

Okay on another issue. Herman Cain's past as really come back to bite him in his patooty. It looks as though he's going to be the first to get "Kicked off the island", in short I think he's pretty much done. And based on what I've seen the race for the Republican nomination ot will probably come down to Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney. Now I don't agree with everything these two say but I have to admit these guys have some good ideas about how to get this country going again. And frankly I think somebody needs to go supernanny on the Democrats in the Senate and Barack Obama.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2011, 07:42:14 am by Animeman73 »
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Offline Chibachi Nero

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #154 on: December 01, 2011, 08:46:18 pm »
Okay, first - just because you're part of an oppressed minority does NOT mean you can't be racist, and it does not give you an excuse for racism. Minorities are fully capable of having their own prejudices and oppressing other minorities. The fact that you belong to a minority that's been heavily stigmatized and treated awfully sucks, but it's certainly no excuse for dumping on others. That's a ridiculous thing to say, and I sincerely hope you don't believe that.

Secondly, who exactly called you racist? I'm looking at the thread and I can find people who thought you were Islamophobic, but that was due to a misunderstanding of terms and anyway, Islam is not a race, it's a religioin practiced by people of many races.

Thirdly, please at least make an effort to check over your posts, it makes them very hard to read when they're full of typos and faulty coding.

Offline jaqua

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #155 on: December 02, 2011, 02:04:55 am »
First, Animeman, I'm sorry you suffer from vision problems (if what I'm inferring from your post is correct), and I'm sorry I misspoke and by proxy accused you of harboring feelings you do not. However, I'm going to agree with Nero that just because you are a minority doesn't mean you can't have anti-other minority sentiments (not using a specific "you", just a general one), and I want to remind you that you are not the only minority in this debate. I am part of a minority, and I know Malaria is as well, and I'm sure we're not the only two. Many minorities besides the handicapped have suffered horrors at the hands of majorities and minorities alike over the course of history. You're also not the only person who has been bullied. Hateful words and feelings can (and have) come from every race, nationality, gender, orientation, religion, or ability level. Saying someone is exempt from anti-minority sentiment because they are also a minority is naive.

Here's an example of Islamophobia from Fox News. There are more out there. I don't feel like looking. And if they're all giving their opinion, shouldn't they at least be concerned with the accuracy of their facts, since millions of Americans go to Fox News as a news source? Many, many people take everything Fox says as gospel, so if they're assuming everyone's misinformed, biased opinion is fact, then this is a problem. And didn't you say earlier that Fox wasn't a biased news source? It's very difficult to have a news channel based primarily on opinions without bias being rampant. That is a fact of human nature.

Quote from: Animeman73
Recently a fellow by the name of Dick morris put out a nook for kids on poltics featuring a dog. Well Dick Morris called Ron Paula  nut in his book and Ron Paul told his supports to boycott the book hoping to try and hit Dick Morris in the pocket book. [...] Now if Ron Paul would do that on the compaign trail can you imagine what he would do if anyone questioned him while he was in the White HOuse. Chances are he'd use the constitution to have them eiither hanged for "The good of the nation" and he'd twist, filter, and pervert the constittution to do so.

Wait... What? Someone put out a book that had an negative opinion about Ron Paul, so Ron Paul asked his supporters to boycott it... And this means he's a murderous psycho who would kill people for disagreeing with him, had he the authority? I don't follow this thought-process. If I were famous enough to have someone give a negative opinion of me in a book and I had supporters, I'd probably want people to boycott it too. Doesn't mean that if I were president I'd have people hanged for disagreeing with me. What makes you think that would be his reaction? It's pretty clear from what he's said that he's all about the Constitution, and I don't see any indication that he would willingly misinterpret or "pervert" it to achieve his own ends.

I agree with you about Herman Cain, because he's pretty much a scumbag. I also agree that it will probably come down to Romney and Gingrich. I most likely will not be voting Republican in the 2012 presidential race, because if those two are on the ballot, neither will be getting my vote. Ever since Newt Gingrich said he fears a secular nation would be run by radical Islamists I haven't been able to take him seriously as an informed and intelligent person, since that sentence is so absurdly oxymoronic. Also, his statement (that I have paraphrased) that if you're not Christian you don't know what it means to be an American is deeply upsetting and offensive to me, as someone who loves America but is not, has never been, and never will be a Christian. Mitt Romney's God-charged speech is off-putting due to his implication that he's all about religious freedom, assuming you are religious and pray to a god. This article expresses my sentiments about his speech on a political level, and this article on a personal one. As far as I'm aware Romney hasn't actually said he's discriminatory against atheists the way Gingrich has, so he's so far the lesser of two evils, but anyone who ignores history to justify his labeling of an originally secular country as Christian only to turn around and tell me I'm the one who has their history wrong is not someone I'll ever vote for if I can at all help it. I have lots of other feelings about the political beliefs of Gingrich and Romney, but I won't get into them since I'm already too wordy.

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #156 on: December 09, 2011, 12:32:23 am »
I found this interesting article that may give a new perspective to the whole abortion debate.

Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #157 on: December 09, 2011, 11:19:39 pm »
My philosophy on abortion is this. The decision is hard enough on a woman as is. Why have Government interfere...it should remain an issue between a woman, her Doctor, and her God. No if's, no ands, no buts about it.

And I can assure everyone out there the chances of Roe Vs. Wade ever being overturned are somewhere between nil to nonexistant. Because you see it's not just Democrats who support the Court upheld law, 50% of Republican women...yeah you heard me, Republican women believe in Abortion should be kept a matter of personal choice.

As I've stated the Abortion issue...it's the beeswax of the woman, her Doctor, and her God.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2011, 07:33:45 pm by Animeman73 »
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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #158 on: December 10, 2011, 04:10:15 am »
And I can asure everyone out there the chances of Roe Vs. Wade ever being overturned are somewhere between nil to nonexistant. Because you see it's not just Democrats who support the Court upheld law, 50% of Reopublican women...yeah you heard me, Republican women believe in Abortion should be kept a matter of personal choice.

AS I've stated Abortion issue...it's the beeswax of the woman, her Doctor, and her God.

I hope you're right, Animeman73... but popular opinion won't matter in whether Roe v Wade is overturned. All that matters is "Who's sitting on the Supreme Court". If a pro-life Republican gets elected next term and gets to replace one of the pro-choice judges, we're probably looking at major restrictions if not an outright overturn.
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Offline jaqua

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #159 on: December 10, 2011, 05:15:47 am »
My philosophy on abortion is this. The decision is hard enough ona  woman as is. Why have Government interfere...it should remain an issue between a woman, her Doctor, and her God. No if's, no ands, no buts about it.

And I can asure everyone out there the chances of Roe Vs. Wade ever being overturned are somewhere between nil to nonexistant. Because you see it's not just Democrats who support the Court upheld law, 50% of Reopublican women...yeah you heard me, Republican women believe in Abortion should be kept a matter of personal choice.

AS I've stated Abortion issue...it's the beeswax of the woman, her Doctor, and her God.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

If Roe v Wade is overturned I'm probably going to have to move out of the US. It will be the first step of what will likely be many in creating a country I no longer want to be affiliated with.

Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #160 on: January 11, 2012, 02:32:56 am »
OK guys, it's been quite a while since I've posted. I've been on a MASSIVE media hunt. I was absolutely addicted to the information I found and I. Am. TERRIFIED of what is happening in this country right now.

Is ANYONE aware that Obama signed the National Defense Authorization Act?

Is ANYONE aware of what this does to us?!

I just got back today from a town hall meeting with Senator Merkley, and God bless that man, because he voted against it. I know that some people earlier on in this thread supported SOPA and PIPA but the Senator himself was talking about how the bill is dangerous to our free speech, and thank goodness he is actively in an effort to stop this.

Furthermore, the federal government has massively increased its TSA funding, and over 9,000 TSA checkpoints were issued on the streets in 2011.

Does anyone else feel like America is turning into a police state?! I watched The Rise of FEMA on Youtube the other day, and I was absolutely speechless about the military attacking peaceful protesters with sound weapons.

YES. THE U.S. MILITARY ATTACKING ITS OWN PEOPLE AND DECLARING THEIR PROTESTING TO BE UNLAWFUL.

You don't have to watch the whole thing; the stuff I'm talking about starts at 57:00. It is very disturbing to me. If you choose to watch it, it is imperative that you watch until 1:14:00, at the very least.

We need to start talking about this!!!
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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #161 on: January 11, 2012, 05:50:25 am »
I really enjoyed this piece by Glenn Greenwald (he rules) called Progressives and the Ron Paul fallacies.

I'm pretty dang left-wing last time I checked (voted Nader in both '04 and '08 presidential elections), and there are things I would dislike about a Ron Paul presidency.. but the guy at least strikes me as being 1) consistent 2) honest 3) willing to talk about things that no one else is talking about.

NDAA is scary.

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Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #162 on: January 11, 2012, 07:51:59 am »
Sorry to put a damper on the ideological trip but it's time for a moderate's reality check.

Sorry but the U.S. NOT attacking it's own people and that whiole the rise of FEMA and police state nonsense was cooked up by ideological groups who don't undestand the reality to the kind of world we live in. I've heard how that whole Ben Franklin statem,ent about trading freedom for protection has been misuseed. Let me ask this does anyonme out there REALLY understand what a police state is?

Folks I know what a police state is. And consider this. If we were living in a police state don't you think the thought police would've come for you a long time ago? But they haven't, because there is none. We still have our freedom of speech. A police state is a government in which the Government actively opresses other people's thoughta and beliefs. And the U.S. has most certainly NOT become that. Anyone, in my opinion anway, who thinks otherwise is selling something.

And as for these so-called video I could take them tio any unbiased fact-checker out there and we could probably break down all the lies these videos are telling. The left is throwing a temper tantrum because they're losing control. The right is throwing a temper tantrum because the want control back. Which is why I believe uit's time for us Moderates Democrat and Republican to stand up together...take botht the left and the right by the an ear, give them both a good Jethro Gibbs head slap, and set them in the corner to think about all the damage they've caused to the country while we moderates fix things. The real truth is neither left nor right but down the middle moderate. And I for one call on the members of the silent majority to stand up and help end the petty political shinnanigans of both ideological extremes and help get this country back to the greatness for which we once stood. Because where the U.S.A. is concerned...our best days are NOT behind us! Because we don't die...just multiply!
« Last Edit: January 11, 2012, 02:31:40 pm by Animeman73 »
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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #163 on: January 11, 2012, 08:22:32 am »
Let me ask this does anyonme out there REALLY understand what a [police state is?

Folks I know what a police state is. And consider this. If we were living in a police state don't you think the thought police would've come for you a long time ago? But they haven't, because there is none. We still have our freedom of speech.

I'm wondering: How do you reconcile your statement with the fact that arresting peaceful protestors has become commonplace?
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Offline Drauska

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #164 on: January 11, 2012, 11:32:12 am »
No one can be trusted.

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #165 on: January 11, 2012, 11:47:57 am »
Sorry to put a damper on the ideological trip but it's time for a moderate's reality check.
Why is everything you disagree with ideology?

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Sorry but the U.S. NOT attacking it's own people
Definitely no problems with police brutality. Not against peaceful protesters, and not in impoverished neighborhoods or neighborhoods dominated by people of color.

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and that whiole the rise of FEMA and police state nonsense was cooked up by ideological groups who don't undestand the reality to the kind of world we live in.
I don't have an opinion on whether or not the martial law in the FEMA camps was a symptom of a rising police state, but I find the bolded portion of your statement very boring. Security threats, real or imaginary, have historically been used by military and executive powers to accumulate power. It's sort of a given in modern historiography that war and security propaganda are used to squash dissent and reform. I, personally, am grateful to any political organization that is vigilant in regards to executive overreach. The only check on misuse of government power in a republic is an engaged citizenry. Exploring the possibility of abuse of power is the definition of civic virtue, whether you like what conclusions they're coming to or not.

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I've heard how that whole Ben Franklin statem,ent about trading freedom for protection has been misused.
Everyone always argues that the Ben Franklin quote is being misused when the other side is using it. It's over-quoted to the point of irrelevance, and extremely easy to rationalize its application to almost any situation ever.

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Let me ask this does anyonme out there REALLY understand what a police state is?
I feel like I have a fair idea. My definition of the police state would include constant surveillance without the requirement of a warrant and the ability to arrest and hold people without charges or due process or trial. Unfortunately, wiretapping and digital activity monitoring have been fairly commonplace for the last decade.

I still wouldn't consider the US a police state, because it lacks your usual climate of fear and suspicion of everyone around you. We could easily go that way, though. Plenty of democratic or republican states have turned authoritarian when the going got rough enough. Naomi Wolf actually wrote a fascinating analysis of the rise of fascist governments through history called The End of America. You probably hate Naomi Wolf, but I think it would be willfully ignorant to say that her argument is unsound.

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Folks I know what a police state is.
Could you provide your definition? I've given you mine.

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And consider this. If we were living in a police state don't you think the thought police would've come for you a long time ago? But they haven't, because there is none.
The police state doesn't include literally arresting everyone. None of us are community organizers or local party leaders. People who kvetch quietly among themselves without taking action aren't a danger to the police state. Even at the height of Soviet terror, people still gossiped in their kitchens. It isn't until you try to do something (like protest corporate control of the political process in the US) that you get pepper sprayed in the face and piled onto by multiple police officers.

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We still have our freedom of speech.
What's freedom of speech without freedom of assembly to request redress of grievances?

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A police state is a government in which the Government actively oppreses other people's thoughta and beliefs. And the U.S. has most certainly NOT become that. Anyone, in my opinion anway, who thinks otherwise is selling something.
Then clearly, I am selling you an alternate definition. Lucky for me, my definition is grounded in tangible government structures and not an extremely vague term like "oppression."

Orrr no one is selling anything, and are instead exercising their civic virtue and completing their civic duty by remaining vigilant in the face of government action.

But if we ignore that I find your definition problematic due to ambiguity, we could also consider the fact that it's too broad. You can be a theocracy, which requires people to hold a certain set of religious and cultural beliefs, without being a police state.

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And as for these so-called video I could take them tio any unbiased fact-checker out there and we could probably break down all the lies these videos are telling.
Your certainty ahead of time that these videos are lying doesn't say much for your objectivity as a consumer of information.

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The left is throwing a temper tantrum because they're losing control. The right is throwing a temper tantrum because the want control back.
This seems like a very reductive way to look at the political climate. Despite having a Democrat for a president, the Republican party, and conservative politics in general, have been key to the American political scene for the entire last decade. The Blue Dogs, your beloved moderates, have done just as much partisan damage as any of the pro-gun or pro-human rights legislators could've dreamed. Stupak-Pitts was a Democratic amendment to the healthcare bill, after all.

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Which is why I believe uit's time for us Moderates Democrat and Republican to stand up together...take botht the left and the right by the an ear, give them both a good Jethro Gibbs head slap, and set them in the corner to think about all the damage they've caused to the country while we moderates fix things.
You seem really convinced that you've got an army of moderate legislators waiting to come out of the wings and do what you think is best, but if that's true, where are they in politics? The increasing polarization of our legal representatives is partly party machinations, true, but the parties wouldn't be able to operate this way if not for a dearth of other, more cooperative leadership.

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The real truth is neither left nor right but down the middle moderate.
I'm willing to consider any cogent opinion, and so far you haven't presented me anything even remotely convincing. Just a series of slogans, mostly.

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And I for one call on the members of the silent majority to stand up and help end the petty political shinnanigans of both ideological extremes and help get this country back to the greatness for which we once stood.
So you... want to re-elect Ronald Reagan?
I don't see that this country was ever greater than it is now. I think that's the varnish of nostalgia speaking. In the past, we had different horrifying problems, and now we have new ones. For example, no one's getting beat into paralysis on the Senate floor anymore, and the bathrooms are unsegregated. Instead, we have hilariously partisan politicking and the steady roll back of reproductive rights.

Obviously that's an extremely simple comparison, but the point I'm trying to make is that there were never any halcyon days. Speaking as a woman-assigned atheist Jew, I would rather be living in the US now than any US that has come before.

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Because where the U.S.A. is concerned...our best days are NOT behind us! Because we don't die...just multiply!
Naw, we're definitely on the declining track of the Roman Empire. History's a spiral, after all, and patterns have a tendency to repeat themselves.

I mean, you're right, population-wise we're probably going to keep growing, but that doesn't mean we won't experience any dissipation in our national structure. Maybe we'll be forced to reorganize along our watersheds or agricultural needs, something cool like that.
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Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #166 on: January 11, 2012, 02:37:34 pm »
Peaceful, actually the soo-called peaceful protestors that have been arrested have been actively antagonizing the police. Now granted most protestors  out there want to follow the laws of the land and indeed the protest peacefully and don't insult the police.

But if the police were arresting every protestor out there then the jail cells would be more overflowing then they already are. Granted some police officer do have an attitude but those officers are few and far in between. Most officers out there are just trying to do their job. And we need to give the police the right to do their job.

The sad truth is the few protestors who are being arrested are the ones who are deliberately antagonizng the polcie. and these types either come in spoiling for a fight and/pr they're part of an anarchist group that decided to crash the party.

If hundreds of people protexsting were being arrested then the streets of this city would be practically empty. Sorry but that's more ideological pro-paganda. And another thing it's not a good idea to assume things about people in fact my family and I had some problems with some of the stuff Reagan pulled. Above all else he was anti-union, and I'm pro-union.  Also i was a kid when Reagan was in office. The truth is there will never be another Ronald Reagan. the only thing i want is a president who can get things done and get us back to a measure of prosperity.

And this comparison of American tio the Roman Empire is complete is utter nonesense. The very idea of comparing us to that is in and of itself an insut to this country. The ones who scream how we'rre a dictatorship or a police state are the ones with their own agenda. And usually that agenda doens't benefit the American populace. As for my definition of a police state I've explained it. The words are written but have fallen onn deaf ears. And you'd be surprise by how many moderates are out there.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 07:57:09 am by Animeman73 »
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Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #167 on: January 11, 2012, 06:40:35 pm »
Shaking my head.

I've asked this before, and I don't mean to insult you, but Animeman...are you trolling? Sometimes I honestly wonder.

Also, did you even take a look at the video at all? You don't have to pay attention to Alex Jones and what he says about world government and the devaluation of the dollar, among other things, but the footage is what is important. Documented evidence that the U.S. military, along with the police--in clear violation of posse comitatus--are attacking its own people. We saw this with UC Davis, but this Rise of FEMA footage was taken almost three years ago. You can argue about the theatrics of the video, but the scene I was talking about (57:00 - 1:14:00) looked pretty clear-cut to me. I posted it on this forum because I wanted to know what other people thought about it, and whether it concerns any of you as much as it concerns me. Now, I know that there have been many incidents like this that have happened over the years, but my awareness has increased over the past couple of months, and I just really feel compelled to bring it up.

I also found this today: In this article, the Department of Homeland Security admits to monitoring Twitter, Facebook, Youtube, etc...and interestingly, The Drudge Report.

Needless to say, new information keeps popping up. Please speak up if any of these sources seem questionable to you.
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Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #168 on: January 11, 2012, 08:01:51 pm »
I really enjoyed this piece by Glenn Greenwald (he rules) called Progressives and the Ron Paul fallacies.

I'm pretty dang left-wing last time I checked (voted Nader in both '04 and '08 presidential elections), and there are things I would dislike about a Ron Paul presidency.. but the guy at least strikes me as being 1) consistent 2) honest 3) willing to talk about things that no one else is talking about.

NDAA is scary.
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Excellent, excellent article. Thanks. I liked how he compiled all the video clips at the end.

Another really great one is called "What Makes a Progressive President?" It's really funny because the article comments about how in every single one of these types of progressive pieces on Ron Paul, there's always a disclaimer at the beginning: I'm not endorsing him! So don't come after me.

I also voted for Nader in '08! I voted for Paul in the Republican primary, and when he dropped out I voted for Nader. Weird, I know, but they have similar opinions about various issues. Plus, I really love Nader's consumer advocacy.
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Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #169 on: January 11, 2012, 08:04:20 pm »
I'll be frank. No I'm not trolling. I do admit that lately my comments have been rather abrasive and I sincerely apologuize for that. But my opinions still remain what they are.

And the whole devaluation of the dollar thing is a myth another conspiracy theory. Basically, and this is my opinion everything that's been said doesn't make any sense at all. All this stuff about hidden world governments is a lie. This is why nothing personal but I don't understand Ron Paul or his followers at all. Nothing makes any sense to me. I'm not saying that you're insane, as a matter of fact if we met in person i imagine you'd be very sane and reasonable. Also that would be name-calling and that's wrong. What I do say is that the concepts discussed are wrong, inaccurate, and just ridiculously paranoid.

I grant you this I've been a bit rash in my language perhaops, but saying things like calling me a racist because Ihave differing political views that's wrong (The action is wrong that is.), and when people say things such as Americans are weak, lazy, stupid, and need a Big briother kind of guiding hand is good, while saying the being patriotic by saying things such as "U.S.A. rocks" and "U.S.A.we don't die, just multiply" is comparable to the Rman Empire and ad that's wrong. This thread is about expressing diffferent political points of views and you're going have to face the facts that not evryone is going to agree with you or think the way you do. that's the beauty of this country. You can say what you want to say, but that doesn't mean that i can' speak my mmind also. I'll do my best to mellow out the tone of words but I will say this I am a moderate Democrat, I voted for William Jefferson Clinton in my first election back in 1992. And I will ALWAYS be a Democrat and proud of it.

But I'll also say this I've met my fair share of Ron Paul supporters and well...they can get pretty mean and nasty when anyone even remotely questions their point of view. And the whole idea of a revolution or bringing down the forces of the "Shadow giovernment" have you ever asked yourself how that really makes people feel. I'm probably one of the older dudes on this site, but I say you might want to take a trip into the rural areas of the state or into the other sstates of the country and just ask people about their perspective on things, you might be surprised. have I made myself clear?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2012, 09:31:59 pm by Animeman73 »
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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #170 on: January 11, 2012, 08:56:37 pm »
Basically and this is my opinion everrything that's been said doesn't mmake any sense at all.

Everyone has the right to their own opinion, but as you said, they don't have the right to force or expect others to agree with them without evidence for that opinion. Heck, they don't even have the right to force or expect others to listen when they present evidence - but pointedly or repeatedly ignoring evidence could be seen as forfeiting any expectation of being taken seriously.

(Then again, that itself is only my opinion. ;))
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Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #171 on: January 11, 2012, 09:35:35 pm »
Basically and this is my opinion everrything that's been said doesn't mmake any sense at all.

Everyone has the right to their own opinion, but as you said, they don't have the right to force or expect others to agree with them without evidence for that opinion. Heck, they don't even have the right to force or expect others to listen when they present evidence - but pointedly or repeatedly ignoring evidence could be seen as forfeiting any expectation of being taken seriously.

(Then again, that itself is only my opinion. ;))

Okay granted I'll take a closer look at the evidence but still articles saying things like the Government is spying on us via Facebook, in my opinions, is absurd and serves no gain for anyone.
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Offline Malaria

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #172 on: January 11, 2012, 10:46:37 pm »
I tend to respond to your posts by quoting the portions I'm responding to. I would really appreciate it if you did the same, since it would make your responses easier to follow.

I'll be frank. No I'm not trolling. I do admit that lately my comments have been rather abrasive and I sincerely apologuize for that. But my opinions still remain what they are.
And we would all take your opinions much more seriously if you provided evidence.

Admittedly, I've been pretty lazy about sourcing my comments, but that's because I'm just... am lazy. And I keep assuming a fair amount information is common knowledge when it clearly isn't for you.

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And the whole devaluation of the dollar thing is a myth another conspiracy theory. Basically, and this is my opinion everything that's been said doesn't make any sense at all. All this stuff about hidden world governments is a lie.
I'm pretty sure this isn't a response to anything I said, but I really wish you could provide some evidence. Anything, really. Even a White House Press Secretary saying something like "the dollar is still strong."

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This is why nothing personal but I don't understand Ron Paul or his followers at all. Nothing makes any sense to me. I'm not saying that you're insane, as a matter of fact if we met in person i imagine you'd be very sane and reasonable. Also that would be name-calling and that's wrong. What I do say is that the concepts discussed are wrong, inaccurate, and just ridiculously paranoid.
I'm just gonna skip this, because I am apathetic to Ron Paul and will continue to be unless he becomes the Republican nominee for president.

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I grant you this I've been a bit rash in my language perhaops, but saying things like calling me a racist because Ihave differing political views that's wrong (The action is wrong that is.),
We all assumed you were racist because the term Islamist is usually employed by racists in order to further dehumanize all Muslims and Arabs. Funnily enough, that's not a mutually inclusive group of people.

Sound like a racist, get called a racist. We might've jumped the gun, but I'm pretty sure you can see how we got there.

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and when people say things such as Americans are weak, lazy, stupid, and need a Big briother kind of guiding hand is good,
When did any of us express or explicitly support that sentiment?

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while saying the being patriotic by saying things such as "U.S.A. rocks" and "U.S.A.we don't die, just multiply" is comparable to the Rman Empire and ad that's wrong.
Patriotism is acknowledging the faults of your nation, working to improve upon them and loving the nation regardless. I don't acknowledge those statements as patriotic. They're nationalistic.

I said "modern Roman Empire" and you automatically assumed I was saying that that's inherently bad. That's your bias talking. I was just making a historical comparison, which is made widely and often. Even the Heritage Foundation, that bastion of conservative thought, sees the similarities.

Quote
This thread is about expressing diffferent political points of views and you're going have to face the facts that not evryone is going to agree with you or think the way you do.
I don't think anyone is upset that your political views are different. We just wish you would provide some evidence, any evidence at all, to backup your opinions. Instead, you just call everything we source biased or lies.

Quote
that's the beauty of this country. You can say what you want to say, but that doesn't mean that i can' speak my mmind also. I'll do my best to mellow out the tone of words but I will say this I am a moderate Democrat, I voted for William Jefferson Clinton in my first election back in 1992. And I will ALWAYS be a Democrat and proud of it.
Are you a Democrat if you don't believe in any of the positions of the party?

Quote
But I'll also say this I've met my fair share of Ron Paul supporters and well...they can get pretty mean and nasty when anyone even remotely questions their point of view.
Every candidate has supporters like that. There are people who stand with you 100% who can be huuuge bigoted jerks. That doesn't delegitimize your point of view.

Quote
And the whole idea of a revolution or bringing down the forces of the "Shadow giovernment" have you ever asked yourself how that really makes people feel.
I doubt that most Ron Paul supporters would present their policy aspirations quite that way on first brush with someone new. But assuming they did, could you provide some suggestions about what you think people's reactions are? I don't really understand what you're leading to here.

Quote
I'm probably one of the older dudes on this site, but I say you might want to take a trip into the rural areas of the state or into the other sstates of the country and just ask people about their perspective on things, you might be surprised. have I made myself clear?
No, I'm still confused as to what you're driving at.

edit: What if I never proof any of my posts before posting. Ever ever.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2012, 10:49:44 pm by Malaria »
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Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #173 on: January 12, 2012, 12:01:02 am »
Malaria, a lot of Animeman's previous post was directed towards me. I am a Ron Paul supporter, which is why he talked about Ron Paul and some of the other things about which you were confused.

Since multiple people have already said it, I am tempted not to sound like a broken record, but I feel the need to repeat.

Animeman, you need to start examining the facts we are giving you. We are going through the time-consuming process of replying to each and every one of your sentences, as well as taking precious time out of our day to Google evidence and present it in a clear format so that we do not make brazen claims.

That said, I am glad that you finally admit to not clicking the links. Everything we have posted, you have refused to look at. And I personally take offense when people write things off by calling them "conspiracy theories" and then move on without checking the facts. The dollar is being devalued. Trillions and trillions of federal reserve easy money has infiltrated the monetary system both here and abroad, and on August 5th, 2011, for the first time in 70 years, the United States Treasury bills' rating was downgraded by  S & P . This is very big news, and there does not need to be a conspiracy to recognize that the dollar is in very bad shape right now. We should not subject ourselves to foolish normalcy bias because we are unable to envision a world where the U.S. dollar no longer reigns supreme as the world's reserve currency. It  might take time, and it may never happen, but to dismiss basic economic principles about easy money policy by labeling it as a conspiracy does not equate to a good argument.

Furthermore, DID you click on "The Rise of FEMA" link? I'm assuming you did not. I asked you to simply watch 57:00 to 1:14:00. Just watch it! It's live footage of American soldiers attacking its own people. Why is it so hard to open your mind up? The only reason why I mentioned Alex Jones is because I know most people's opinion of him and conspiracy theories in general, and I wanted to warn you ahead of time so that you don't completely dismiss the footage, as you have clearly done. I just want to let you know that you don't have to agree with his opinions; I certainly don't agree with all of them. All you have to do is just look at the footage of the military kettling against the American people and attacking them with sound weapons (LRADS). It's very simple.

Anyway, thanks for recognizing that you have neglected to look at the evidence. At least we're getting somewhere now. And I applaud you when you stick to your guns in this thread. Though I must admit, I do tend to get frustrated with your posts, for the reasons stated by Malaria.
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Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #174 on: January 12, 2012, 08:16:47 am »
Everyone here says i should offer proof of who Ron Paul really is. Check out these articles:

http://www.alternet.org/teaparty/152192/5_reasons_progressives_should_treat_ron_paul_with_extreme_caution__cuddly_libertarian_has_some_very_dark_politics?page=entire

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread792310/pg1

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/darren-hutchinson/ron-paul-civil-liberty_b_1174422.html

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/01/04/10-reasons-not-to-vote-for-paul/

This took a great deal of time and research but I think it helps prove my point. And another thing i won't use the term islamist anymore, instead I'll use the term gangsters who have hidden behind the Muslim faith because that's exactly wheat theso-called Mullahs of Ira are.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 08:50:52 am by Animeman73 »
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Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #175 on: January 12, 2012, 08:48:34 pm »
Everyone here says i should offer proof of who Ron Paul really is. Check out these articles:

http://www.alternet.org/teaparty/152192/5_reasons_progressives_should_treat_ron_paul_with_extreme_caution__cuddly_libertarian_has_some_very_dark_politics?page=entire

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread792310/pg1

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/darren-hutchinson/ron-paul-civil-liberty_b_1174422.html

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/01/04/10-reasons-not-to-vote-for-paul/

This took a great deal of time and research but I think it helps prove my point. And another thing i won't use the term islamist anymore, instead I'll use the term gangsters who have hidden behind the Muslim faith because that's exactly wheat theso-called Mullahs of Ira are.

Animeman, I don't remember doing it, and I don't recall seeing any other specific Ron Paul supporters in this forum, but when has anyone asked you to provide proof of who he is? Thanks for taking the time to post links. The first one in particular used so much straw-manning and ad hominem tactics, it took some effort to glean a cogent argument out of what the article was actually trying to say. The second piece was a forum thread. Since there were some pro-Ron Paul posts on that thread, I'm uncertain about what you wanted me to figure out from there. The third one sort of left me scratching my head, because from what I understand about the legislation, it basically reinforces the 10th Amendment, which reflects Ron Paul's strict constitutionalism. Thus, I'm not certain that their arguments were very effective. Interestingly, I was already aware of the fourth one. Adam Kokesh has done a piece addressing it. I, as well as reppy have provided some thoughtful pieces on Ron Paul as well. I would suggest you take a look at those since I have taken the time to read the links you have posted.

I already know you're not a Ron Paul supporter. I'm not trying to get you to vote for him, so I don't know why you posted those links. You've already said that you were impressed with Mitt Romney's business experience and that you'd be voting for him because of that. OK.

Did you watch the FEMA video?
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Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #176 on: January 12, 2012, 11:41:49 pm »
I did see the Youtbe video, interesting video. Can't say I agree with it or the information laid out therin, but it was an interesting and differnet perspective.
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Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #177 on: January 13, 2012, 02:21:35 am »
Thanks.

I really wasn't expecting anyone to agree with what was said. I'm just trying to get people to see what is going on. To see how the military is treating its own people. To let people know what is going on in their country when they don't see it.
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Offline reppy

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #178 on: January 13, 2012, 04:35:22 am »
I really enjoyed this piece by Glenn Greenwald (he rules) called Progressives and the Ron Paul fallacies.

I'm pretty dang left-wing last time I checked (voted Nader in both '04 and '08 presidential elections), and there are things I would dislike about a Ron Paul presidency.. but the guy at least strikes me as being 1) consistent 2) honest 3) willing to talk about things that no one else is talking about.

NDAA is scary.
Code: [Select]

Excellent, excellent article. Thanks. I liked how he compiled all the video clips at the end.

Another really great one is called "What Makes a Progressive President?" It's really funny because the article comments about how in every single one of these types of progressive pieces on Ron Paul, there's always a disclaimer at the beginning: I'm not endorsing him! So don't come after me.

I also voted for Nader in '08! I voted for Paul in the Republican primary, and when he dropped out I voted for Nader. Weird, I know, but they have similar opinions about various issues. Plus, I really love Nader's consumer advocacy.

That's a cool video. I saw the video at the time where Ron Paul (with Nader) endorsed 3rd parties in '08. And I saw some of their interviews at around that time. But never saw this. And I will read that article soon.

I used to read Salon.com, but stopped because it started to grate on me after awhile. . .

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Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #179 on: January 13, 2012, 08:10:16 am »
@HalcyonFour I know we've had our misunderstandings in the past and i admit I've been rather ornery (Gads maybe I take more after my Grandfather, God rest his soul, then I thought.) and do apoligize if I've seen like a troller, i get very...passionate about my plitical beliefs so much so that i get as stubborn as a mule. But if and the others here are willing to ley bygiones be bygones what do you say let's set the grief of the past aside?
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Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #180 on: January 13, 2012, 09:27:59 pm »
@HalcyonFour I know we've had our misunderstandings in the past and i admit I've been rather ornery (Gads maybe I take more after my Grandfather, God rest his soul, then I thought.) and do apoligize if I've seen like a troller, i get very...passionate about my plitical beliefs so much so that i get as stubborn as a mule. But if and the others here are willing to ley bygiones be bygones what do you say let's set the grief of the past aside?

Of course. I understand passion in politics as well, and polite discourse is always welcome. I'm just concerned about the state of affairs of our nation.

But I still would like to continue to let people know about various issues, particularly regarding civil liberties. I'm just so concerned about stuff, it's hard for me not to talk about it. I'll also try not to be what they would call a "Paulista". If I post anything, I will try to keep it relatively neutral, but sometimes it's hard.
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Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #181 on: January 13, 2012, 10:22:37 pm »
@HalcyonFour I know we've had our misunderstandings in the past and i admit I've been rather ornery (Gads maybe I take more after my Grandfather, God rest his soul, then I thought.) and do apoligize if I've seen like a troller, i get very...passionate about my plitical beliefs so much so that i get as stubborn as a mule. But if and the others here are willing to ley bygiones be bygones what do you say let's set the grief of the past aside?

Of course. I understand passion in politics as well, and polite discourse is always welcome. I'm just concerned about the state of affairs of our nation.

But I still would like to continue to let people know about various issues, particularly regarding civil liberties. I'm just so concerned about stuff, it's hard for me not to talk about it. I'll also try not to be what they would call a "Paulista". If I post anything, I will try to keep it relatively neutral, but sometimes it's hard.

Thanks i appreciate that.

You know as I get older, and start to reflect on the things I've seen since first really started to notice the world. And well somethig has occured to me. Some of your remember the tragic events of Columbine back in 1999 when several teens carrying automatic weapons stormed the school killing a number of students and eventually...themselves. In the days that followed the questions that follwed were, "How did violence on T.V., in video games, and music cause this?"
However I'm beginning to think the questiobns at the time were driven by fear. And fear is something even more dangerous and more mind numbing then anything in the human psyche. And well as i reflect i start to think with the low quality of T.V., music, and a number ofvideo games these days I've realized that in our fear the wrong questions were asked. Instead of asking how the media or video games caused this we should've asked this, "Where were the parents of the teen shooters in all this? And why didn't they notice what was goin on and get their kids some psychiatric help?

Bullyiing is a terrible thing and should be combatted in our schools that's a given. But this is why parents need to take a more active role in their kids' lives, so that way if the kid is having problems, they'll feel comfortable enough to go to their parents with their problems. Also parents need to have the courage to get their kids the help they need even if the kids don't quite know it themselves. There are some kumoriocn forumm goers who would understand this because they have kids of ther own. This should ringa bell with the Kumoricon goers who are parents and those who aren't. Because when a child starts wearing black, listening to dark music, and talking about suicide or shooting someone isn't that when any parent would freak out and get their kid help?

More importantly than that the politicians and PC parents groups need to get out of trying to regulate T.V and movies. Because the reason there's so much mean and nasty Sur-reality T.V. out there is because T.V. is being regulated into the ground. Now granted there have to be some regulations in place to protect kids and adult viewers from those who would take advantage of them, of course we need that. But we need to take the reigns off of the T.V. and movie industry so the writers, actors, and directors can do their jobs while the exxecs run the business end of things. The FCC still has a place i T.V. however the over regulation needs to stop so T.V. can get good again. More importantly, in my own opinion. T.V. could also use an anime revolution. Now that's the type of revolution I'd happily partake in!

So that's it put a leash on regulation and let the T.V. (and even the movie industry) get back to doing what they do best.

This is just my opinion, and have a nice day. :)
« Last Edit: January 14, 2012, 08:42:33 am by Animeman73 »
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Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #182 on: January 16, 2012, 07:49:34 pm »
Sorry to double-post like this but nobody has been here in a while. So I thought I'd put this in. People often talk about racism without even knowing what it truly was. But the Civil; Rights movement of the 60's understood. they understood all too well. I recommend everyopne here get a Histopry book on the Civil Rights Movement and/or the 60's and read up on it. And since this is the birthday of the legendaasry civil rights leader Rev. Dr. Martin luther King Jr. (Who to me was and always will be a true American hero.) I have a link ere that everyone sahould look at. look and listen there's a great deal to be learned from this.

http://www.mlkonline.net/dream.html

« Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 04:53:33 pm by Animeman73 »
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Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #183 on: January 17, 2012, 07:23:24 pm »
Sorry to double-post like this but nobody has been here ina  while. SO I thought I'd put this in. People often talk about racism without even knowing what it truly was. But the Civil; Rights movement of the 60's understood. they understood all too well. I recommend everyopne here get a Histopry book on the Civil Rights Movement and/or the 60's and read up on it. And since this is the birthday of the legendaasry civil rights leader Rev. Dr. Martin luther King Jr. (Who to me was and always will be a true American hero.) I have a link ere that everyone sahould look at. look and listen there's a great deal to be learned from this.

http://www.mlkonline.net/dream.html



Thanks for the link, Animeman. How ridiculous that because of "copyright laws" it's not legally available.
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Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #184 on: January 17, 2012, 08:33:55 pm »
If yopu're reffering to the measures congress is trying to pass. Here's the way I see it. Copyright is one thing but these bills would give unpresidented abuse of power abilties to a few small corporations run by umm...individuals who are less than adequate in certain areas (Nuff saif d for family friendly purposes.) and would stifle entrepreneurialism even more.

This bill would essentially kill the internet including Youtube. It's just another attempt by a few large companies espcially movie companies to steal creativity from us because they don't have any. Well if media big brother thinks he's going to take control of my life, got a new flash for them. I got a nice Jethro Gibbs headslap and a raspberry with their name on it. Also would anyone from the moderators mind if P put the link to a petition that's being sighed against these measures, or would that be going too far? I want to know before I take any action.
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Offline Chibachi Nero

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #185 on: January 17, 2012, 08:38:54 pm »
...Animeman, she was referring to the fact that, as they state in the link you provided above, the video footage of the speech is not available online because it's copyrighted. You have to buy it if you want to see it.

Which is in fact pretty ridiculous.

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #186 on: January 17, 2012, 08:52:47 pm »
Also would anyone from the moderators mind if P put the link to a petition that's being sighed against these measures, or would that be going too far? I want to know before I take any action.

No worries, as long as the link is PG-13.

...the video footage of the speech is not available online because it's copyrighted. You have to buy it if you want to see it.

Which is in fact pretty ridiculous.

This.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 08:54:51 pm by @random »
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Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #187 on: January 18, 2012, 04:56:17 pm »
Oh sorry Halcyon my bad.

And here's the link for the petition. Let's stop SOPA and it's sister because if we don't Big brother will take over the internet. And I don't want socialism taking away my internet rights in the name of "PROTECTING" copyright laws.

http://www.change.org/petitions/stop-the-internet-control-bill-now#
« Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 04:58:06 pm by Animeman73 »
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Offline Malaria

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #188 on: January 18, 2012, 05:14:55 pm »
Oh sorry Halcyon my bad.

And here's the link for the petition. Let's stop SOPA and it's sister because if we don't Big brother will take over the internet. And I don't want socialism taking away my internet rights in the name of "PROTECTING" copyright laws.

http://www.change.org/petitions/stop-the-internet-control-bill-now#

Man, I am with you except that this is not socialism. At all. In any way.

The protection of private property above all else (in this case intellectual property or IP) is a thoroughly capitalist notion.
Legal action that puts an unfair legal and economic burden on private citizens doesn't correspond to any particular political theory. It's just bad governing.
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Offline Chibachi Nero

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #189 on: January 18, 2012, 05:23:07 pm »
^^ What Malaria said.

Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #190 on: January 18, 2012, 06:00:27 pm »
Actually you're right on this...it is bad klawmaking, no it's worse it's EPIC FAIL lawmaking. And you're right copyright is a capitalist idea, and i do support copyright laws. The creators of stories and such should have the right to make money off their work, it's only fair.

What PIPA/SOPA do essentially is set up a system of power abuse where a few powerful movie companies who haven't bveen able to come up with anything creative can sue anyone, even a new company on the Internet for copyright infrigment, even when their work shows no sign of it. And that is stifling the Great Ameerican spirit of entrepreneurialism which is an integral part of how we became so great a country. Although the more I think about it, you're right Malaria, it's not socialist, it's worse, it's monopolistic, and monopolies mean bad news for the consumer. And likewise when there are a great number of companies on a certain somethingor creatinga  certain product or service to choose from, prices go down, jobs and customer service quality go up. After all with any private business...and this is something in my opinon A LOT of private companies have forgotten...customer service, is EVERYTHING!!!!


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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #191 on: January 20, 2012, 02:44:25 am »
An open post to anyone who still believes SOPA/PIPA won't be abused... even without having those laws, the RIAA and MPAA have persuaded the DoJ to arrest the founder and some employees of MegaUpload and seize their domains as "criminal copyright infringers".

No, I'm not joking. I wish I were.

http://torrentfreak.com/megaupload-shut-down-120119/
« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 03:53:09 am by @random »
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Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #192 on: January 20, 2012, 06:17:58 pm »
OKay on to another topic.

When it comes to the idea of Gays and Lesbians being allowed tio adopt and raise children some have asked should they? My answer to that is...if they can provide a stable loving environment for that child then I say HECK YEAH!

I've heard some say that a child needs both their mother and father. Well let me respond with this, what if the hetero couple doesn't want the child or anything to do with the child? Does that mean a child has to be forced to associate with their biological parents just to sate someone else's ideology, I don't think so. Now granted a child might find it a bit odd living with two men or two women, but I think the gay or lesbian couple who adopts the child would be smart enough to explain things to the child when they're old enough. I'm about as heterosexual (As in I like women.) as they get but I strongly believe that gays and lesbians deserve the right to live with the same quiet dignity as the rest of us. I also believe that one opreferences in terms of...intimate company should not be factor in whether one is allowed to or not allowed to adopted a child. I'd bet any amount of money there are a alot of dignified gay and lesbian coupkes out there who would love to have a child to raise. Because with a lot of these law-abiding Gay/lesbian couples I'd bet any amount of money they could teach their kids good and bad and everrything else just as well as any hetero couple.

That's my view on things.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2012, 07:40:52 am by Animeman73 »
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Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #193 on: January 24, 2012, 01:27:02 am »
...Animeman, she was referring to the fact that, as they state in the link you provided above, the video footage of the speech is not available online because it's copyrighted. You have to buy it if you want to see it.

Which is in fact pretty ridiculous.

This made me giggle.
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Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #194 on: January 24, 2012, 01:34:57 am »
An open post to anyone who still believes SOPA/PIPA won't be abused... even without having those laws, the RIAA and MPAA have persuaded the DoJ to arrest the founder and some employees of MegaUpload and seize their domains as "criminal copyright infringers".

No, I'm not joking. I wish I were.

http://torrentfreak.com/megaupload-shut-down-120119/

Yeah, this has been all over the alternative media news.

Additionally, we may have a problem larger than SOPA and PIPA on our hands; it's called ACTA, and from my understanding, it's more of an international trade agreement and is not subject to the same kind of legislation as SOPA and PIPA: http://www.inquisitr.com/184832/acta-worse-than-sopa-and-classified-as-national-security-by-obama-and-bush/

My response to this is, why do we even need SOPA/PIPA if things like this can already be done. Why all of these attacks on free internet all of a sudden? My guess is that it is not solely related to piracy.

And sorry to revert back to the internet piracy stuff, Animeman. I just had to comment on ACTA.
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Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #195 on: January 28, 2012, 08:03:16 am »
Halcyon, it's all good. Granted people should have the right to make money off their own intellectual property but I agree that information itself should be free. And these acts (SOPA/PIPA and ACTA) are a blatent attempt at monopolizing information itself. This is a form of fascism and I'm as much against fascism as I am socialism.

And on the subject of monopolies that brings me to the first of my commentaries here in this section. While I promise to keep the language as always family friendly I will be offering my opinion. You can choose whether to say "Hear, Hear" or "I beg to differ, good sir." on this.

It's abundantly clear that Obamacare has fiscal and government disaster written all over it. I myself am not a big fan of it and I believe it's going to be defunded sometime in this or the next year. It's also pretty evident that Obama is a puppet. I mean there's no way he could've become president so quickly without having some powerful backers. But who are Obama's puppetmasters, the answer might surprise you. Believe it or not contrrary to what the TEA party and ideologues would have you believe it isn't the unions. Unions only want Health care for all their members. And almost all union members are hard-working, honest, law abiding citizens who just want to make a living wage and take care of their families. That's not too much to ask is it? And I can tell you it most certainly isn't the Doctors out there, my own dentist has made it clear as have the medical community here in the U.S. that they are against Obamacare, mainly because it would interfere with their ability to do their job more so then now.

So who really came up with Obamacare? The answer is...the heads of the major HMOs. Why so, well...maybe this is my Asberger's talking or maybe I'm on to something but in this world there are patterns in everything. And here's the pattern or the motivation for the major HMO heads. By putting Obamacare into place it will protect their profits and their pocketbook allowing them to play games and pull fast ones on their customers while insuring that there's no new competition. That's right boys and girls it's that old demon known as greed, with perhaps a serving of Sloth. And people wonder why Greed and Sloth are considered two of the 7 deadly sins. The major HMOs don't want new competition because that would chip into their profits, and force them to have to improve their customer service. In our capitalist system (Which while not perfect has helped us survive as a nation for several centuries.) when there's lots of competition prices get driven down, and the quality of customer service smd product goes up. After all in this game custmer service is a must if a company wants to attract more customers. But the HMO heads are only interested in their wallets, they don't care about who their clients are. And frankly that just makes me sick. With Obamacare the HMOs are using our own Government to protect their bottom line. This is why I believe Obamacare needs to be repealed, because it doesn't provide healthcare for everyone it just protects the profits of a few HMO execs.

And there you have it.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2012, 03:56:01 pm by Animeman73 »
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Offline Griff_the_dragoon

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #196 on: January 29, 2012, 06:53:02 am »
^ TL;DR

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Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #197 on: February 03, 2012, 01:09:48 am »
It's also pretty evident that Obama is a puppet.

This.

Except I don't think it's the HMO groups like you were saying. I think it's Goldman Sachs and other Wall Streeters. Same people who funded Obama's campaign are now funding Mitt Romney's.

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Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #198 on: February 10, 2012, 08:56:15 am »
Okay I'm not sure if this is the best place for this but I HAVE to get this off my chest.

My friend Peach has been in quite an infuriated state recently and so have I. A number of days ago a number of you probably heard a report about about a couple of kids 5 and 7 years old who were murdered by their father because they were starting to talk in regards to the killing of their mother. I feel sorry for the Social worker who was just doing her job in this case. But here's the part where things get political in an inappropriate setting. WHO of all groups just happens to show up at the boys' funeral...but none other than America's favorite hate-mongers Westboro Baptist cult, to me they're NOT a church they're a cult. Now to emphasize the point that I'm not a racist nor am i homophobic let me state that I view Westboro's twisted ideology with nothing but disdain and contempt. Showing up at the funeral of two innocent little boys to spew their hateful poison. I dispised Westboro before but now more than ever so help me if I ever come across any of them I'm going to forget my manners and give them the one fingered salute if you know what I mean. Bad enough that the Phelps family are manipulating weak-minded religious zealots but to show up at the funeral of two innocent boys taken from this world in so tragic a fashion just so they can force their beliefs down everyone else's throats. These guys REALLY make me sick!

And that's all I have to say about that.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 08:15:51 am by Animeman73 »
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Offline Chromophobic

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #199 on: February 11, 2012, 01:35:14 am »
...I dunno if this has been mentioned since Im to lazy to read through all the posts..... ._. And I totally just discovered this today so I am out of the loop when it comes to political shtuff.............
« Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 01:37:22 am by Chromophobic »

Offline Griff_the_dragoon

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #200 on: February 15, 2012, 01:53:19 pm »
^ thought they had something for that... was it called Mcafee or something like that? Or was it a password to get on the computer???

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Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #201 on: February 15, 2012, 09:01:27 pm »
-Sigh- They do have soemthing for it called parental controls. Oh well, some people never learn.

Okay time for another commentary:

Now I've heard some people say Iran isn't a threat. To that I respond, SAY WHAT!?!

Consider this, throughtout the country they have signs saying "Down with America" and "Death to the West". Now before everyone flies off the handle and says it's because of America's evil policies, consider this. Iran's Government has one the MOST oppressive policies towards women. their human rights violations towards their own people are unbelieveably horrific. And it's abundantly clear the real rulers the Mullahs of the country are bent on World Domination and nuking Isreal. But here's a major problem with that line of thought. Isreal has in it a prominent temple containing relics sacred to the prophet Mohhamad. So, why are the Mullahs of Iran so eager to blow it up when they now it contains holy relics of Islam. The answer is...when boils down to it when you get past the robes and the Quran they hide behind what you're left with is bunch of greedy, selfish old men who are using Islam as means to further their dreams for world domination. Now granted former ruler of Iran the Shah wasn't the nicest of people either, I'm not saying that. But these old men are trying to take over the World and so their enriching Uranium in order to create Nuclear weapons. And knowing how religious fanatics work, the scariest thing about them is...they may very well do it.

What's scarier is that thesse guys don''t understand the consequences of their actions. Consider this, if they blow up Isreal with a nuclear strike, the Middle East is a VERY small region. Enter into this equation a littkle something called Nuclear fallout which would make all oil and every ounce of land in the region radioactive for centuries to come and uninhabitable thusly cutting the world off from it's oil supply. So Iran would not only be destroying itself but it's neighbors as well. The problem is religious fanatics don't understand the concept of unintended consequences they just see their desires. Now their President is dangerous, and I think he could be a problem if he ever gets free of his leash. But Iran IS a threat because religious fanatics and nuclear weapons don't mix. Just something to think on.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 09:18:04 am by Animeman73 »
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Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #202 on: February 26, 2012, 02:52:59 pm »
Sorry to double post like this but not much has been happening here for a while so i thought I'd put in my 50 cents on a certain matter. There are a lot of folks out there who have said that going back to the gold standard is the cure for our economic woes. Some have even said that mantaining the fiat system will cause the country to collapse just as other countries that use paper money collapse and Gold and Silver are the way. Not so fast I say. Before you jump on the gold standard bandwagon read this article from from Moneynews magazine, I think you'll find it very enlightening.

http://www.moneynews.com/StreetTalk/nourielRoubini-Reviving/2010/11/10/id/376602


« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 08:44:23 pm by Animeman73 »
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Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #203 on: May 04, 2012, 08:33:54 pm »
I would recommend that everyone here e-mail and call their senators to STOP CISPA. This is a new threat to internet privacy and censorship. It's getting ridiculous.
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Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #204 on: May 15, 2012, 10:11:52 am »
Well folks it's looks as though Mitt Romney's just about got this primary wrapped up.

ANd the latest Rassussen polls show that Moderates and Indpeendants are coming out more in favor of Romney than Obama.

First off let me say I have no problem with Obama's skin color. I don't judge people based on how much melanin content they have in their skin, I judge strictly on ability. Obama has proven incompetent, and Inexperienced. And that's why i hope yto God that Mitt Romney becomes president. Oh I grant you Mitt Romney isn't perfect, but let's be practical, Mitt Romney has the qualifications to get things done and get this country back on track. I believe if anyone can straighten out our books he can.

I won't say it'llbe easy. I believe EVERYONE is going to have to sacrifice something to get his country back on top. But hey sometimes we have to sacrifice something for the greater good, otherwise how would we change and grow?

Also while I can't place a link here because of all the foul language in it...there's a rant on Occupy Wall Street that Adam Corolla did a while back. I strongly recommend people view that.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2012, 07:04:01 pm by Animeman73 »
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Offline Malaria

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #205 on: May 15, 2012, 10:57:14 am »
Whenever anyone opens a statement declaring that they cannot! be! racist!, I assume they are pretty racist and self-conscious about it. Which is good. More people should be self-conscious about their racism. Lord knows we've all internalized a lot of vile ideas about people of color that we have yet to confront properly. And when I say we, I mean I'm racist, too, and that I recognize that that's bad. I also recognize that denying it won't do anything to resolve the pervasive, poisonous racism that underpins our social structure.

Your argument sounds like a 30 second pro-Romney commercial. I haven't actually learned anything from you that would make him a more compelling candidate. Those are just election cycle buzzwords.

I'm not sure what you mean by sacrifice. Do you mean taxes? Because I have some serious doubts that Mitt Romney, Professional Rich Person, will be all that eager to increase taxes on rich people.

I categorically cannot vote for Mitt Romney, because he said he would support a Personhood Amendment, which would eliminate women's access to hormonal birth control. I will not vote for anyone who tries to make people slaves to their reproductive capacity. If Romney wants to protect the precious babies, he can start with the foster system. Then he can move on to improving access to birth control and sex education, so there are fewer unwanted fetuses to begin with.
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Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #206 on: May 15, 2012, 07:24:35 pm »
Interesting perspective. But I must graciously but heartily disagree.

I mean that a lot of programs, even the most sacred cow of programs,  like or not are going to get cuts. It just has to be done. The trick is to find WHERE to cut in the right way that will leave the program leaner and healthier.

And I say with certainty Mitt Romney doesn't believe in forcing women to be slaves. I mean take a look at him and his wife Anne. She's not his property, she's his partner in an equal relationship. (And I give kudos to her because helping raise 5 boys, surviving cancer, and dealing with MS that is the sign of a warrior's heart.) I mean no sensible person Republican or Democrat wants that because forcing women to be second class citizens would be useless. But with the fact that we've spent outrselves into such a horrendous state we can't afford much more of anything.

As for the sex education, I agree better sex education and understanding of all options is the key. That kind of knowledge will give young people power to decide their reproductive fate. And oing so in a completely unbiased way will work even better. The problem isn't just getting the funding. There are ALOT of people out there who want to see sex education more extensive and that movement is growing everyday. Here's the big problemit's also getting the kids to listen. Because from what i've seen of our public education system there's a serious lack of discipline there. Kids are riding roughshod of the teachers, principals, and even parents to some degree. They're afraid that their kids will sue them or that if they spank them child protective services will come and take their kids away.  I've seen this lack of disicpline myself and this whole mentality of, "I don't have to do what you say or listen to you or anyone because I'm SPECIAL! I deserve my rights." It's a mentality that Adam Corolla talked about in his OWS rant.

Malaria I'll not tell you who to vote for. If you choose not to vote for Romney well...who am I to tell you what you can and can't do? But if the latest CBS and Rasmussen polls are any indication. Come next year we're going to see a change in the presidency. That's just my take.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 08:55:44 am by Animeman73 »
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Offline Chibachi Nero

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #207 on: May 15, 2012, 09:23:12 pm »
okay, animeman, i'm going to have to say no to basically everything you just said.

your third and fourth paragraphs especially represent a keen lack of any understanding of how the republican party is currently operating with regards to reproductive rights. no, mitt romney is not advocating that we literally force women into slavery. but he IS advocating that female-bodied people lose reproductive rights, which for many can lead to a loss of autonomy. if someone is forced by the government to give birth to a child they don't want, that's an immense physical, emotional, mental and financial strain on them. regardless of your personal stance on abortion, the right to decide what happens to their body should lie with the person themself, and not be dependent on the wellbeing of what is effectively a parasite.

the republican party right now has consistently supported legislation that restricts abortion rights. they have not, however, supported anything to increase comprehensive sex education. so no, romney being elected to president will not help in that regard. and frankly, as someone who is in high school currently, i find it a little offensive that you think we're honestly that bad. some students don't pay attention, but that's always been the case. romanticizing your past helps nobody. i had health class last year, and trust me, kids payed attention when we did sex ed. people really want to learn this stuff. the problem is, in fact, getting the funding, as well as keeping conservative groups from banning it entirely.

and in response to your second paragraph, frankly if the wealthy in our country payed a fairer share of taxes and we stopped spending so much on the military we wouldn't have to drastically cut so many "sacred cow" programs. considering that a lot of school funding is on the chopping block right now, i think we've moved past "making sacrifices" for the greater good and fully into "we need to figure out another plan because this ain't working" territory.


Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #208 on: May 16, 2012, 09:34:14 am »
Actually my good Chibachi Nero there are a lot of wealthy people who have been forced out of wealthy by being taxed too much. Now don't get me wrong everyone should pay taxes. But well, when the tax burden is placed on one type of people specifically "The rich". And well granted I beleive Reaganomics was a DISASTROUS failure. Clinton P think did a heck of a job in terms of the economy, he actually balanced the budget and got us a surplus. Granted this nasty recessiona nd deby did start on George W. Bush's watch, that much is true. But the problem her is OBama, Nancy Pelosi, harry Reid, and the ilk have hijacked my party and promoted programs which have made the beleeding worse.  Obamacare, which happened on Obama's watch, The bank Bailouts which Pelosi and the Democratic Congress sponsered. Oh make no mistake the banks should share in the blame.,..they did wrong and they should pay. And actually they're starting to pay because their stockholders are revolting against them. What's the one way to hurt a bank the most, hit em,' in the pocketbook. But blaming all priovate sector business and "The rich" for the actions of the Government and the banks well, I just don't see the right in that. Blaming SAFEWAY, Harley-Davidson, Gardenburger, McDonald's, and even Microsoft for the actions of The Congress aand banks...like I said the logic escapes.

In terms of my comments on sex ed. Okay granted I overgeneralized, and I apologize for that Chibachi Nero. And I'd bet any amount of money you probably understand studying hard and working hard. And like i said i agree we need comprehensive sex education programs. And I grant you there are bad apples in the Republcian party who don't wnat Sex Ed programs, and that I think is foolish. And i'm not romantocizing my past, in fact my past was horrible! My high School years were among the worst years of my life. I went to high school int eh early 90's during the time of the L.A. riots and the Rodney King incident. This was back in the early 90's when the barely had any understanding of asberger's syndrome.

Also you should know 50% of Republican womne, yeah you read right Republican women are for Roe vs. Wade. They want abortion kept safe and legal. And that's only right no Government or religious orgaanization has the right to tell anjy woman what she can and can't do with her body. It should come down to the woman, her doctor, and her God. In short the ball is in her court.

And i hope this doesn't come off as confromtation or anything but when exactly has Mitt Romney has never said he wants women's reproductive right eliminated?

You want there to be more money for schools and education here's the answer, now I'm not sayong complete degregulate all industry because that has disaster written all over it. We need regulations to protect workers, investors, honest businessowners, and the public. But what I am saying is give the bueiness owners out there some slack. Le those who have the money be given some ease from their Tax burdens and from unecessary regulation so they can start hiring. Give private sector business a chance to prosper, and we'll see more taxpayers in the system, and more money in the system. And when there's more money in  the system then we'll have more money for programs like comprehensive sex ed programs. it again copmes back to the issue of our stinky economy.

There are a lot of good law-abiding wealthy people who would be willing to give  apersona  job. But here's the thing we have to understand. If a person wants that high paying job or that million-dollar job, they have to start at the bottom and worj their way up.A lot of sucessful entreprenuers started off cleaning bathrooms, or flipping burgers. Hardly anyone gets that big break instantly. A lot of times like or not we have to work for it. I have 4 weeks vacation in my job as a courtesy clerk and I didn't get that overnight it took me 12 years to get it. The short of it is, don't expect anythingt o be handed to you on a silver-platter. Again ask any sucessful; rich person and most will tell you that they started at the very bottom of their profession. That's just how it goes. I understand that there ar always going to be people in this country who have more than me. that's always been the way it is and I'm at peace with that. And for all of Capital;ism's flaws, it's still the best sytem we got, and it does work. It's a sytem in which people are judged bytheir actions and deeds. I'm not saying worshp at the altar of random ruich people, but what I am saying is give them a beak, have a postive attitude, and respect them for the fact they drive their proverbial Rolls Royce because they worked hard and they built something.
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Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #209 on: May 30, 2012, 07:41:25 am »

"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."
- John Fitzgerald kennedy
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Offline Malaria

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #210 on: May 31, 2012, 05:41:41 pm »
4thEstate.net has put out an interesting breakdown about the sex of sources cited in the media, especially on women's issues. (I think they're everyone's issues, but that's only sort of related.)

Highlight: "For example, in front page articles about the 2012 election that mention abortion or birth control, men are 4 to 7 times more likely to be cited than women." Ugly feminist laughter.

It's not enough to say that we believe that women deserve rights when prompted and leave it there. If we want our politics to be legitimately non-sexist and non-gender discriminatory, we need to be proactive in recognizing our biases in favor of recognizing the authority and reliability of men's voices over women's.
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Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #211 on: June 23, 2012, 06:22:39 pm »
Something interesting today on FOX news. Mike Huckabee had on his show a number of Millenials. And they ranged from Democrat, to Republican, to Independant.  yup there were people there who were planning to vote for Obama, ROmney, and even Gary Johnson the Libertarian nominee. And as always things were civil and respectful on Mike Huckabbee's show. I may not always agree with mike Huckabee but I give him KUDOS to him for keeping the  show nice, relaxed and very civil. That's the kind of class we need in poltics. We can disagree to our heart's content. But when it's all said and done we're Americans and let's go out for a berr and/or a buger, or well just to chat. Now doesn't that sound wonderful?
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Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #212 on: July 22, 2012, 09:26:12 pm »
Okay there's something I want to get off my chest. it seems to me that lately there have been some pretty nasty names thrown around by Democrats, Republcians, and independants. I from time to time unfortunately have given into the temptation. But recent ecevents and hanging around my parents for sop long have brought to this revelation/declaration. While my beliefs may at times be grating whether you support Obama, Romney, or even Ron Paul I make this promise. i will never ever use the terms libtard, Neo-con, or sheeple. I've found that those words can undermine the lines of communication. While we may not agree on everything I make this pledge never to use any of these words to attack anyone. I believe we can debate without the name-calling. That's the sign of a truly civil society, and now more than ever we need that.
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Offline reppy

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #213 on: July 22, 2012, 09:30:15 pm »
I don't think Neocon is a bad name, though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservative

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Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #214 on: September 16, 2012, 08:01:39 pm »
Well folks we have a new low in EPICALLY stupid, facepalm-esque laws. In the city of New York it is now illegal to seel 32 oz drinks. They SAY that it's part of the effort to combat obesity. Personally I think this law is facepalm absurd and has EPIC FAIL written all over it. I mean what gives the city of New York the right to play food and drink police. I mean banning 32 oz drinks to combat obesity? In the words of WWE superstar the Miz, "Really...really...really?". I think all this is going to is aggravate the problem and a majority of New York city people are going to rebel against this silly law. Obesity and combating it are a matter of personal responsibility. You can't legislate good health in people. Fitness like I said is a matter of personal responsibility. And banning 32 oz drinks is not going to solve anything. That's my take on it. Have nice day. :)
« Last Edit: March 09, 2015, 10:21:13 am by Animeman73 »
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Offline reppy

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #215 on: September 16, 2012, 10:09:13 pm »
Here's a video on the topic I watched awhile ago. It opened my eyes a bit. I really don't like the idea of telling people what to do with their bodies . . but the reality is that individuals do not live in a vacuum.  We all affect each other.

The Skinny on Obesity (Ep. 7): Drugs Cigarettes Alcohol...and Sugar?

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Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #216 on: September 17, 2012, 12:19:41 am »
Here's a video on the topic I watched awhile ago. It opened my eyes a bit. I really don't like the idea of telling people what to do with their bodies . . but the reality is that individuals do not live in a vacuum.  We all affect each other.

The Skinny on Obesity (Ep. 7): Drugs Cigarettes Alcohol...and Sugar?

With all due respect, reppy, I honestly couldn't take anything in that video seriously as soon as I heard the word "fluoride". This guy argues against the nanny state, but he is really advocating for using its disastrous results. They admit in the video themselves that the government has been telling us what to eat, and that is why we are so fat...yet they now want these same government bumblers to direct even more flawed and desperately uninformed policy? That is insanity!

One extremely important element that they do not mention AT ALL in this clip is the monstrous, disastrous government subsidies that go into sugar, dairy, corn, and other unhealthy food industries every year. These drive down their prices so low that they become a very cheap input in the production of virtually every food, a fact that the video actually mentions. The reason why sugar and high fructose corn syrup are an input in all of these industries is because they are subsidized by our tax dollars. Instead of regulating people's behavior, we should work to wean Big Agra off of these subsidies that encourage obesity!

Follow the money; I bet the folks producing this video are behind some new big pharma big agra or big pharma stunt that will protect the very industries it seemingly criticizes.
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Offline reppy

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #217 on: September 17, 2012, 11:46:31 am »
Here's a video on the topic I watched awhile ago. It opened my eyes a bit. I really don't like the idea of telling people what to do with their bodies . . but the reality is that individuals do not live in a vacuum.  We all affect each other.

The Skinny on Obesity (Ep. 7): Drugs Cigarettes Alcohol...and Sugar?

With all due respect, reppy, I honestly couldn't take anything in that video seriously as soon as I heard the word "fluoride". This guy argues against the nanny state, but he is really advocating for using its disastrous results. They admit in the video themselves that the government has been telling us what to eat, and that is why we are so fat...yet they now want these same government bumblers to direct even more flawed and desperately uninformed policy? That is insanity!

One extremely important element that they do not mention AT ALL in this clip is the monstrous, disastrous government subsidies that go into sugar, dairy, corn, and other unhealthy food industries every year. These drive down their prices so low that they become a very cheap input in the production of virtually every food, a fact that the video actually mentions. The reason why sugar and high fructose corn syrup are an input in all of these industries is because they are subsidized by our tax dollars. Instead of regulating people's behavior, we should work to wean Big Agra off of these subsidies that encourage obesity!

Follow the money; I bet the folks producing this video are behind some new big pharma big agra or big pharma stunt that will protect the very industries it seemingly criticizes.

The man in the video actually produced an hour and a half long speech criticizing high fructose corn syrup and sugar in general. So no, I don't think he works for big agra. =P It's an ~8 minute video that is part of a series . . you can't fit everything into it!

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Offline superjaz

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #218 on: October 04, 2012, 11:17:21 am »
Some things were said about PBS on the debate last night, that I don't agree with, so I leave you all with this


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« Last Edit: October 04, 2012, 11:18:24 am by superjaz »
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Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #219 on: October 04, 2012, 08:27:50 pm »
Okay I admit there are some VERY great things about PBS. I definitely disagree with Mitt Romney on that. But there are a lot of thing that i do agree with Mitt Romney on. And last night I can say without a doubt Mitt Romney won that debate.

First off let me state for the record I have NOT seen 2016: Obama's America, simply because I find that Micheal Moore-esque pseudo-documentarian stuff to be intellectually insulting and the reason why there's so much vitriol in this country. But the thing about Obama is how is it that a community organizer from Chicago becomes a Senator and later the President in such a short time period? The answer is, he had help. But now when Obama's being tested he cracks under pressure. And the whole "I don't have time for this" vibe he gave off last night showed clearly his inexperience in the position of executive officer of anything. The case of Barack Obama is a case of too much, too fast.  Barack Obama has shown himself to be the sort of person that believes, "It's my way or the highway". That to me is a sign of political inexperience and dare I say naivete. Maybe Barack Obama as my friend Peach pointed out (And she's a Republican) could have been as great as Clinton was. but like I said he got too mkuch, too fast, and too soon. He should have been allowed some time to grow and gain some experience. But we have to face facts that barack obama has shown hinmself to be inflexible, and an incapable president.


And in direct contridiction Mitt ROmney was the Republican Governor of arguably the most liberal state in the unions, and SOMEHOW he wheeled and dealed his way to creatinga  successful state economy and making Massechuttess (Sp?) a more tempting state to do business in. The is a man who understands who our allies are and who understands how to get this economy going again. Some folk have said Mitt ROmney was born with money and has a silver spoon in his mouth. For that matter some have accused him of not being an American citizen. Actuallly i did some research on that. (Research is good!) Mitt Romney is DEFINITELY an American because he was born in Detriot michigan the son of a former actress and later Governor George Romney. When he came of age Mitt actually took the whole of his inhertiance...and donated it to charity. Everything Mitt ROmney has ever gotten money-wise he earned through his own blood, sweat, and tears. that's right Mitt ROmney is a self-made millionaire. He never in his time at BAIN shipped abny jobs overseas, that's just propaganda. What mitt Romney can do is sit down with others even of opposing vuiewpoints and work with them to come up with a deal. Mitt ROmney knows how to play with others. True leadership is not just knowing when to lead, but when to follow and be part of the team. Granted there are things liek PBS that disgree with Mitt Romney on. But on a lot of things including how to fix this economy, mitt ROmney has the right idea. Mitt Romney has explained that this economy probably can't be completely fixed in 4 years. But if we elect him he can sure get us on the road to fixing things. Obama talked about Mitt Romney needing to be specific, this coming from someone who doen't know how to work with others, as my stepfather always said there's a difference between talking the talk, and walking the walk. Mitt Romney can talk the talk, and then walk the walk because that's the kind of guy he is. And that's the kind of man we need for the presidency.

And that's my thoughts on things.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2012, 08:04:37 am by Animeman73 »
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Offline Prinz Eugen

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #220 on: October 11, 2012, 06:33:41 am »
Definitely NOT voting for "The Zero," but not keen on Mittens either.

Romney's point about PBS was "... but is it worth borrowing MORE money from China to keep
  • going - or NOT?"


Sesame Street makes HUNDREDS of millions of dollars in franchise and licence fees from plushies and other toys, costumes, etc. They get about $7mil from US TAXPAYERS which is a small fraction (like about 6% or 7% of their total income. I think they are successful enough to go it alone without my wallet.

About Mitt vs The Zero being more American, that's a no-brainer; TeH One spent much of his boyhood growing up OUTSIDE of this country, so he's not passionate and not really fluent in specifically American cultural experiences - baseball, hotdogs, Mom & apple pie, 4th of July fireworks, Thanksgiving, Memorial Day, and the Pioneer Spirit of the Oregon Trail.

(That last one: we are -not- collectivists. We are -not- 'all in this together.' We fled to freedom from people who said we must share our sacrifices. We replied. 'Oh Yeah? Bye-bye,' and closed the shop when they tried to tax us, bought a wagon and walked the trail to economic freedom in small, freely associating groups. We did not expect government to be there ahead of us, providing bridges, guard rails, or mandating sanitation regulations or monitoring 'carbon footprints' of our campfires. If somebody broke down ['stumped' entered the American English language in the 1850s] we were free to assist but just as free to walk on by. We didn't like the fact that not everybody made it, but niether did we consider it a necessity: there was no 'No Pioneer Left Behind' act. THAT too is American - that most people can make it mostly on their own but American people are free to Make it Big and Keep It - none of the former Soviet Socialist republics ever invented Windows or iPhones, because no one is going to experiment late nights in a garage for an invention which becomes the Property of some Peoples Republic. Even today, China does not invent - they copy from the inventors: Americans.)

One thing I DO like about O. is that he's telling the rest of the world that "Just because USA has the means, materiel, or assets to go abroad and solve other people's problems, does NOT mean that we MUST do so." Previous generations such as my Dad us the phrase "America is the Policeman of the World" and I always hated that, because we never seem to drop off a bill for our overseas services - that gets paid in full and on time.  In Libya, O. told the NATO countries "OK, school's out, the USA has led these things for long enough that you all should know how to do it yourselves: this time YOU work the exam problems and we'll be the teacher who can help out in case you have trouble with a question, we will EXPLAIN the exam question but we won't DO IT FOR YOU - not this time."

That's one of my qualms against Mittens - he is the type of guy who thinks that we MUST be global peace makers and bridge and hospital builders even when we are past broke. I disagree. Syria - the land where people danced in the streets when the towers fell on 9-11-2001 - and now they're shooting at each other. The Zero is right on this one: Hang back and pass the popcorn.

Mittens is also a squish on gun rights and illegal aliens.

I will possibly vote Constitution Party as a matter of conscience, but this year's leader of ther party is a former Democrat from Virginia, so I don't know if I can really trust him. The other alternative is the Libertairan party, but generally I don't vote pro-pot either.


Offline @random

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #221 on: October 11, 2012, 08:03:54 am »
It's worth noting, though, that Romney didn't say he was going to cut just Sesame Street. He said he would want to cut off the whole of PBS, and federal money accounts for about 12% of their funding*. It wouldn't kill them, but it would likely result in smaller / rural markets losing service.

Personally, I rather suspect the reason he would like to do so has little to do with saving money... PBS' share of the federal budget is only about one-hundredth of a percent**. The real reason seems much more likely to be related to the far-right mantra that PBS indoctrinates people with liberal values - an assertion for which I haven't yet seen any reasoned defense. (If there is one, I would be interested in seeing it.)


* - The majority of which actually comes from private donations, not franchise fees.
** - You'd get a LOT more savings by ending corporate subsidies. Subsidies to the oil industry alone range from 30 to 170 times PBS's share of the budget, depending on whose estimates you believe.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2012, 08:05:18 am by @random »
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Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #222 on: October 13, 2012, 08:11:08 pm »
Well folks once again I have to get on my Soapbox about something. And since this is the appropriate thread to do so, here we go. -Gets on soapbox.-

There's a couple ballot measures this year that I think are of great importance. They are Ballot Measures 82 and 83. Those who are against these measures are claiming that the measures will allow out-of-state gambling interests to come in and wreck havoc in Oregon. The thing is I'm here to tell you...that is simply UNTRUE! If anything these ballot measures guard against that sort of thing. And the Oregonian Newspaper's Politifact section has called this along with the other claims by those against 82 and 83 "Pants on Fire" as in "Liar, liar pants on fiore". What meassures 82 and 83 would do is a loow an inspired group of entrepreneurs the chance to build a place called "The Grange". What it would be as a hotel, a gambling casino, and a shopping mall among other things. The most brilliant thing about it is they want to use the old Mul;tnomah Kennel Clun dog track. I'm all for these measure for several reasons.

1. The jobs in construction and the Grange area itself that would be brough in would help revitalize the Wood Village area, give the area of SOutheast Portland/Gresham/Wood Village a real injection of life and vitality. And since the Dog track closed Wood Village has been hurting.
2. The money that would be generated there would REMAIN here in oregon providing more income for all involved.
3. (This is the most personal) Part of the Grange would be a hotel. And don't get me wrong the Vancouver Hilton is a FANTASTIC hotel and I imagine the same can be said of the Red Lion on the Quay. It if The Grange came into being it would mean Kumoricon would have another hotel option. And I for one would LOVE to see a Kumoricon out here in the Southeast Portland/Gresham area. Besides that that the city of Vanncouver is a nice place but I for one would love to see Kumoricon come home to Portland.

I believe the ones who are against 82 and 83 are either forces that are generally anti-entrepreneurial or they workk for the other Gambling casinos here in Oregon who don't want to lose their Monopoly. And I for one have never liked Monopolies and believe that when there's more competition it drives prices down and drives the quality of custome service up. After all in private enterprise that's the name of the game. Also I think small businesses such as travel agents would benefit from the grange because it means all the gambling casinos and hotheir hotels would have to compete and offer special deals. and that's part of how travel agents get their business. Not to mention ther's all the others factors involved when gambling casinos / hotels compete.

So all my fellow Kumoricon goers who are registered to vote whatever your political affilation I ask you to join me in voting YES on measures 82 and 83. Nothing but good can come of the Grange.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2012, 08:21:09 am by Animeman73 »
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Offline melchizedek

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #223 on: October 15, 2012, 01:32:09 pm »
Here is my soapbox for the kennel club.

http://www.grey2kusa.org/pdf/historyOR.pdf

That racing track is an important piece of history.  Yeah, they couldn't renew their lease back in 2004 because they were operating at a loss.   I think it is a waste to dispose of the existing structure for a new one.  It is private property so ppl can do what they want. 

Also, the greyhound racers cited the reason for going out of business as tribal competition.  How well are they going to be able to compete against the tribes when the tribes and non-tribal casino are not on an equal playing field?
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Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #224 on: October 15, 2012, 07:30:23 pm »
Here is my soapbox for the kennel club.

http://www.grey2kusa.org/pdf/historyOR.pdf

That racing track is an important piece of history.  Yeah, they couldn't renew their lease back in 2004 because they were operating at a loss.   I think it is a waste to dispose of the existing structure for a new one.  It is private property so ppl can do what they want. 

Also, the greyhound racers cited the reason for going out of business as tribal competition.  How well are they going to be able to compete against the tribes when the tribes and non-tribal casino are not on an equal playing field?

Interesting thoughts my good fellow.  Still, I'm all for the Grange. ANd here';s what you need to know about the grange.

http://www.thegrangeoregon.com/
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Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #225 on: October 17, 2012, 08:33:21 am »
Sorry to double post folks but I have to get this off my chest.

Well the folks for the grange have stopped campaigning for it which isn't a good sign. it's disappointing when something with so much potential geyts bushwhacked like that. But oh well, life goes on.

The presidential debate last night is comparable to the heavyweight boxing match between Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier. And I have to say this debate didn't disappoint. Obama in the debate definitel;y came out swinging. Romney was consistantly on his A game. He made a alot of valid points about Obama's record on both foreign and domestic policy. Overall I think that Romney edgeed this one out. It wasn't easy but I think Romney gained a slight edge by the end.

This debate was so tense at one moment I figured Romney and obama would just simply toss aside civlity and get into an old fashioned Donnybrook (Fight) one thing is certain, noobody will forget this debate anytime in the near future.
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Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #226 on: November 01, 2012, 09:53:24 pm »
I'll just be glad and done when the election season is over so that we can know which [SERIES OF WORDS THAT HAVE BEEN CENSORED] will be in the White House and go on with the butchering of American values and privileges...
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Offline melchizedek

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #227 on: November 02, 2012, 10:41:48 pm »
I'll just be glad and done when the election season is over so that we can know which [SERIES OF WORDS THAT HAVE BEEN CENSORED] will be in the White House and go on with the butchering of American values and privileges...
+1

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Offline acton

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #228 on: November 05, 2012, 10:44:34 pm »
Taking my ballot over tonight as it is my tradition, I take to toe county election office.
I am for Romney and dismayed anybody can tell him and Obama apart. I see a lot conservative are grumbling but the problem is  the conservative wing no  compelling reason for me  to vote for any of the in the Republican party primary.  Ether we get unprincipled blow hards to big  government conservatives. Fort the record I am more closer to Objectivism Ie strongly individualist and Capitalist.

As for The Grange I voting no on both . I interested ending the state Monopoly on gambling but 82 and 83  is cronyism at its worst, allowing for the Grange but no competition.  I ether all in allowing private gambling or all out  and prohibiting private non Native American casinos, and State lottery.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2012, 06:35:24 pm by acton »

Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #229 on: November 06, 2012, 05:56:18 pm »
Hey folks, this is election night I know. But i have to get this off my chest. I too have voted against 82 and 83. What brought this change? Well here it is.

The more i examined the measure and the vagueries in it  the more I realized that some thing about this measure didn't feel right. And frankly super vague measures give me the creeops. And beides that John Kitzhaber put it best when he said, "We made a promise to the Indian tribes." and we've kept that promise. The indians are making money for their people thriough old fashioned capitalism. I've been to Spirit Mountain and Chinook Winds those places are in my opinion doing very well in making lots of money. Not tto mention the food at Chinook Winds is terrific. XDDDD

But anyway that's my take on things.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 08:37:48 am by Animeman73 »
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Offline superjaz

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #230 on: November 06, 2012, 06:43:04 pm »
I voted and I am with you both on the grange thingy a.promise is a promise
And America has broken enough of those with natives Oregon is better  then that
lots if things were fishy about it, not counting the whole casino culture
(not saying anti gambling, I enjoy the (very very very rare) trip out to a casino see a comic, get some cheap buffet etc) like that they were from Canada and feels like Oregon money would be funneled there.


Anyway I will be happy to see the election stuff over voting pole calls and junk mail, and ads on TV
So I say no matter who wins lets all do our best to get by during these crazy days
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Offline acton

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #231 on: November 07, 2012, 06:38:10 pm »
I've been to Spirit Mountain and Chinook Winds those places are in my opinion doing very well in making lots of money. Not tto mention the food at Chinook Winds is terrific. XDDDD

No it not gambling I just donating to the Native American Welfare fund. (at the blackjack table)

I suspect it will be worst for me next campaign season for calls and junk mail because I just registered as a Refusenik (independent) from Republican; I just got tired of bad campaigning or busting  my but for a moderate who better than a liberal only the get shot down by the Conservative wing in my former party. Then there immigration which the GOP still does not get it right, admittedly I more towards Objectivism than Conservationism.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2012, 06:46:34 pm by acton »

Offline Prinz Eugen

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #232 on: November 23, 2012, 02:30:56 pm »
I woted FOR 82 and 83 because I think that capitalism means opportunity for ALL.
Making a risk to open a casino should be open to anyone willing to look into the risks,
just like opening a restaurant.

Also I had recently been to Vegas and saw how LAME the indian casinos are her in Pac NW vompared to the showmanship and combination of Class and Kitchty-Tacky that makes Vegas so fun to go and observe.

Spirit Mountain is great for a buffet stop during a trip to the mid southern coast, but c'mon.
I don't play blackjack but I DO enjoy craps occasionally.

I will also be switching from (R) to (Independnet) - I had been indie for many years but went (R)) to try to make a difference in the primaries.
All the good, conservative candidates who understood about risk and opportunity versus false security sold to you by taking other peoples money - got washed out by the squishiest crap sandwich left standing: Romney. Yuck.

Then the Repubs screwed with thr rules at the last minute to prevent thr Ron Paul delegates from Maine from being properly seated.


Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #233 on: December 23, 2012, 08:57:11 am »
Hello all I wasn't sure where to put this so I chose here. there's something i really want to get off my chest.

I have no doubt everyone here knows about the horrible shootings at Clackmas Town Center and Sandy Elementary in Newtown, Connecticut. Make no mistake what Adam lanza, the perpetrator did was wrong. All those children he murdered were little more than babies.

The thing is it's been noted that the guy has Asberger's Syndrome. So I think I'd better stop this potential train wreck before it gets out of hand. So I want to clear some things up about Asberger's Syndrome. First off it is true that our attention spans can be somewhat...limited. And when we get into something it is true we REALLY get into it. But when it comes to behavior people with Asberger's are some of the most gentle and kind individuals you could ever meet. Ask anyone who's got a friend or relative with my condition. Or ask anyone who knows me they'll tell you I'm in reality as gentle as they come. I have Asberger's syndrome myself. The thing that really ruffles my feathers, proverbially, is the "Liberal open-minded media" today has a nasty habit of stereotyping people such as me. They make us out to look like we're weak, stupid, and helpless or we're homicidal killers. And THIS is something that makes me really want to pull my hair out. I can tell you for a fact I am not weak, I am not helpless, nor am I stupid! I admit I make mistakes. What person doesn't? It's the nature of humanity to make mistakes. And people with Asberger's are noted as being highly intelligent. As matter of fact some speculate that Micheal Angelo, the guy who painted the ceiling of the Sistine chapel, had Asberger's Syndrome. My Mom has said if that's the case I should be all right as long as I don't start painting the mural of the Sistine chapel on our ceiling. And I can tell you I most certainly am NOT a homicidal killer. In fact the very thought of killing anyone espcially innocent little children in cold blood is something that I find absolutely disgusting! So my fellow Kumoricon goers I know that this month has had more than it's share of tragedy for us. But please don't scaopegoat people with Asberg