Author Topic: say ALMOST anything we want about politics  (Read 322396 times)

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Offline @random

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say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« on: April 13, 2011, 06:55:02 am »
Want to rant about those evil <insert party you oppose>s?
Or about how <insert platform of party you oppose> is going to destroy the country?
Or even how <insert law you oppose> is the worst idea since someone joked with Fred Phelps about how his family was so big they could start their own church?

This is the place to do so... just don't forget that the forum code of conduct says, in part:

Be courteous to other users
Keep discussion friendly and civil, and keep discussion focused on the issue rather than the person.
No personal attacks or speculating about another person's motives. Minimize discussion of off-forum personal disputes.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2011, 09:01:53 am by randompvg »
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Offline jaybug

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2011, 04:03:08 pm »
The president's speech about cutting debt and a "debt failsafe" is about as good an idea as Al Gore's "lockbox" for Social Security. Sounds nice, but they will never become reality.

Soak the rich, you mean like with the AMT (Alternative Minimum Tax)? That hits more middle class people every year as congress only "patches" it, not fixes it, or amends it to reflect reality.

How about people stop keeping up with the Jones, so that they had money to invest instead of only buying stuff. Okay beer and stuff. Anyone realize how much interest people pay every month, money that could make them wealthy instead of living hand to mouth, paycheck to paycheck?

The president has called upon class warfare, as he has no real idea as to what to do. It may make people angry, but it doesn't stop people from spending their money like drunken sailors. Drunken sailors with credit cards and home equity lines of credit.

I haven't read Paul Ryan's budget proposal yet. I am sure there are things I will not like. There are things from the Deficit Commission Report I do not like. I would prefer to just take the Deficit Commission Report and make it law, but... I know better than that will happen.

Thanks randompvg.
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Offline MiriaRose

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2011, 06:47:10 pm »
Thank you for this, so much. Another person and I were discussing making one of these threads, and I'm glad a mod did it instead.  :)

NEWSFLASH, REPUBLICANS. Shutting down the government will hurt the economy, as will passing all the stuff you want passed. You know why? Because the government is investing so much right now that if it suddenly stops, investors will lose confidence. So they won't spend. So companies don't get money. The public will lose confidence and won't spend.

Nobody spending = economy crashes

As for why government spending is good in a recession:
GDP is made up of consumer spending, business spending, and government spending. Here's a nifty equation:
GDP = C + B + G

In a recession, C and B become very low very fast. So you know who needs to pick up the pace? G! Government! That is why government spending is good.

Government spending is also very, very important right now. The private sector is sitting on trillions of dollars right now. They're not spending all of it because they don't have confidence. You know what will give them confidence?

The government investing in the economy.

AS FOR DEBT:
We do not need to get out of debt. That is not a concern. HOWEVER, we do not want to be in deficit. Debt is how much money you owe overall, deficit is when you are borrowing more money than you make. We want to be in a surplus, not a deficit, so that we can pay off everyone we owe money to (such as the Chinese and the Japanese).
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Offline jaybug

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2011, 08:30:40 pm »
One; the government didn't shut down. Two; GOP members do not want to shut down the government, maybe abolish it, but not shut it down. If that makes sense to you, that's makes one of us. (Sometimes it's hard for me to know conservatives from anarchistic pirates)

Three; just spending money is not the right answer. You have to do more than just pay off your base to get the economy going again. Spending lots of money but having no jobs created, no jobs means the unemployment rate did not decline as was assured, does little more than burden US with debt.

As an example, NOW, the president wants to build high speed rail. He's allotted $9billion to the task. How far do you think that will go when Tri-Met the Portland bus company spends building light rail across town?

He killed NASA. You don't think aerospace workers took home good paychecks? That's a loss of a lot of living wage jobs.

Having this government go on a spending spree gives the market confidence all right. Confidence that government would be coming after them hammer and tongs with tax increases. Businesses know all about plans. Even state government requires a business to have a business plan before granting them a business license. The president and the previous congress had no plan. I can't quote Pelosi precisely, but the gist was, we need to pass the stimulus bill to know what is in the stimulus bill. WTF? And why were monies from the stimulus plan made available closer to this past November's election, than front loading them earlier so that jobs would be created sooner? And what does Acorn have to do with stimulating the economy?

In case you haven't watched Democrat mayor Michael Bloomberg's channel on TV, Wall Street is not exactly experiencing a crash. Someone is spending. Profits are doing as well as they have ever done. And generally the broader market is enjoying the same rise of all boats that the Dow component of 30 industrials is enjoying.

AIG paid off the government so they could go back to giving ridiculous bonuses out to the top tier of employees. Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac are still kicking, even though they are still riddled with problems. THe government keeps throwing money at them.

My suggestion for all who read this thread, is to read The Economist newspaper. Yes, we all know that it looks like a magazine. That's what they want to call it. It strives to hold to a rigid middle of the road position. They said so themselves. I say this, as they make better arguments than I do. And it's where I form many of my economic opinions.

And in case you are curious; I am not  Republican any longer. I finally realized that the Republicans I idolized as a child, are not the same people whom the conservatives idolize. Tom McCall and Theodore Roosevelt. You don't have to be a conservative to think the liberals are nuts.

And you don't have to be a Democrat to think the neo-cons are (I'm trying to think of a cute phrase for rabid piratical, you get the idea I hope)
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Offline Jinx

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2011, 10:06:45 pm »
ok so shutting down planed parenthood is probably the stupidest think I have heard in a long time, and thats saying something! first off all thats gonna do is lead to unwanted pregnantness.
20 years after abortion became legal in all 50 states the crime rate dropped a ton, GUESS WHY! the children walking around were suddenly WANTED.

I'm sorry but anyone wanting to cut funding from planed parenthood is freaking retarded... just sayin ^^

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Offline reppy

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2011, 11:00:29 am »
Abortion is a tricky topic.  I understand that regardless of whether or not it is legal people will still do it.  But it is an issue I struggle with whenever confronted because I feel that being "okay" with abortion as a form of birth control is not consistent with my values.  In cases of rape, I can understand why the mother would not want to have the child.  Yet, is it the child's fault that its father was a rapist? 

I know lots of people that say "It's my body and I will do with it as I please."  I disagree: your body belongs to the Earth, which is part of the universe, and when you are dead, your body will return to where it came.  Until then, it's merely on loan.  Be kind to it!

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Offline sandrobotticelli

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2011, 11:26:14 am »
^I agree it's a tricky subject and people are never going to agree about it.

I will say, however, that the Planned Parenthood is not just about abortion, which many people seem to forget. Planned Parenthood also gives contraceptives to couples who can't afford contraceptives, let alone a child, they help with sex education, especially among teens, and they also deal with sexual and reproductive health with a lot of research going towards sexually transmitted diseases, especially HIV.  They have also done a lot of awareness, check-ups, and research for breast and cervical cancer.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 11:29:18 am by sandrobotticelli »
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Offline jaybug

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2011, 04:22:31 pm »
So why can't Planned Parenthood be self-supporting? I haven't heard of any hospitals going broke. Instead of relying on federal funding, why not go non-profit, and never have to worry about money ever again? Pay the employees whatever they feel right, rather than pay according to federal guidelines. Provide whatever services they feel important, instead of following federal rules, which change whenever the party in the White House changes.

And to note, it got funded. It was part of the don't shut down the government package that passed last week.
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Offline Cyprus

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2011, 09:58:24 am »
Politics...lol
Politicians...LOL

Nuff said...

Offline MiriaRose

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2011, 09:37:46 pm »
I'm not even gonna touch abortion, because this is not the time or place.

I know people say that the Tea Party isn't racist, but how is it not racist when you deny the genocide of Native Americans? How is it not racist when you scream at a Middle Eastern-looking boy "ARAB!" or "SON OF ALLAH!" How is it not racist when you throw your sign back towards the "brown" people when foreign invaders are mentioned? One of their leaders apologized to how we were treated (it wasn't just racism, it was also sexism, ageism, classism, ect) but if most of the teabaggers are like that- and they seem to be, at least in Douglas County- then how is the Tea Party not racist?
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Offline @random

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2011, 05:32:35 am »
Just my random thoughts on the matter, but... every organization is made up of people. Within even the most extreme organizations, there's variance. Being a member of Westboro Baptist doesn't necessarily mean you're inclined to scream horrible things at mourners, and being a member of the KKK doesn't necessarily mean you want to terrorize people for their race. (On the other side, even the most tolerant organizations are guaranteed to have a bigot lurking somewhere in the wings.) In the same vein, the presence of even a significant minority of people whose actions are racist doesn't mean the organization is racist... every group has their fringe, and it's unfair (and intellectually dishonest) to judge a group by their most repulsive members.

What matters is their message. If it includes prejudicial overtones (i.e. "all Muslims want to kill people") and errantly-nativist overtones ("all these farrners oughta go back where they came from", which I suspect the Cherokee would agree with) which are not repudiated both from the top and by the majority of the rank-and-file, it's probably fair to call them racist. But getting an open admission of it is never going to happen. In the same way that "racist" has become a generic insult of opportunity synonymous with "wrong" (I kid you not, I've heard pit bull fanciers describe leash laws for pit bulls as "racist"), people will automatically defend an organization they like as "not racist" without stopping to consider whether it might be accurate.

~~~~

Edit: To comment on an assertion I just noticed, that Bloomberg is a Democrat - he's not. He is indeed liberal on some issues, but he ran for his first office (NYC mayor) as a Republican and switched from Republican to independent in 2007. But I think the Observer put it best when they said "Mr. Bloomberg isn't a Democrat, or a Republican, or an independent. He's 18 billion dollars. That's his party, his ideology and his intellectual commitment."
« Last Edit: April 16, 2011, 06:10:50 am by randompvg »
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Offline jaybug

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2011, 04:52:22 pm »
Well, Bloomberg was a Democrat, until the primary election, when he switched to GOP, in order to get to the general election, wherein he won, handily.

I think Rudy was a better mayor. Not a better man.

Gold set a record high. Silver is trading at $42 per ounce. Gas is nearing $4/gallon. And these are signs we are on track? And so what if the Dow Industrial Average is doing great, and the NASDAQ 100. People are still hosed over in their retirement funds. Both parties suck wind on that subject. Let the individual investor vote his shares. Maybe we won't have overly compensated executives. Or bonuses paid to employees for failure, and needing government bailouts.

How to end abortions. Make the "father" of the fetus watch the abortion procedure.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2011, 05:00:56 pm by jaybug »
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Offline reppy

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2011, 08:16:24 pm »
How to end abortions. Make the "father" of the fetus watch the abortion procedure.

There's a documentary/whatever by the director of American History X, I believe it is called "Ring of Fire", that shows video footage of an actual abortion.  I've been meaning to watch the documentary since it seems interesting, but I would have to skip past that part of the video.

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Offline jaybug

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2011, 09:08:15 pm »
Yeah, try doing that, and find out you hit the skip button just a second too late, and have that burning in your memory for life. Well, not the fetus' life.
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Offline soundninja12

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2011, 12:03:06 am »
Michelle Bachmann is a nutter.
A homophobic, prejudice, scary, stupid nutter.

I just had to say it
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Offline Gryffinclaw Princess

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2011, 12:26:42 am »
A man running for mayor in Kennewick (One of the Tri-Cities [it's the area I live in...but I live in Pasco]) is putting his foot down on Illegal Immigration. One of his stances is that Illegals should be shot on sight when crossing the border! Also, if they refuse to leave Kennewick they should face the death penalty. I'm curious how this will go since 75% or more of my graduating class was Hispanic and I know most of them were illegal. One girl in my drama class got her citizenship her senior year of high school (my sophomore year) and she had been in America illegally since she was 5.

So...let's see how long until he washes up on the shore of the Columbia or maybe a new light will shine in the Tri-Cities...who knows. I find it very interesting though that someone has finally come out about it in this area.

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Offline Chibachi Nero

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2011, 06:08:33 pm »
Okay, I'm gonna be stupid and bring up the abortion thing again, because it's something I feel strongly about and I've put a lot of thought into my stance on it. On the one hand, I am against abortion on general principle. I would never want to get an abortion, and I wouldn't encourage anyone else to. In certain circumstances (such as rape or when having the child poses serious health risks to the mother) I can accept it, but for the most part, I'm against it, especially when people use it as their sole form of contraception.

But on the other hand, I wholeheartedly support its legalisation. Just because I have a problem with it doesn't mean everyone else shares my opinion, and I think it should be up to the parents (and, ultimately, the mother) whether or not to keep the baby. I believe that the pregnant woman in question should be the one who decides, and that the right to choose is an important one to protect.

We should educate people on contraceptives and make sure that they're available to anyone who needs them, which will help to cut down on unwanted pregnancies. We should encourage adoption instead of abortion. But in the end, women should have the option to abort if they feel they need to.

Offline jaqua

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2011, 04:08:19 pm »
I'm going to put in my two cents about abortion as well, since it's also a topic I feel pretty strongly about. I am a very firm supporter of abortion being legal and easily accessible for everyone who needs it. And really, whenever anyone says, "But this is a child!" I can only say no, this is not a child, it is a mass of cells that are vaguely human-shaped, being kept alive mostly because of the body it's existing inside of. Certainly it may feel an amount of pain or discomfort while being terminated, but surely that pain is less than, say, an adult cow in a slaughterhouse being murdered for its meat and hide, and I'm sure I can guarantee that its life to that point has been more enjoyable. If people are going to be so staunch about protecting life, why not fight for the rights of animals, who are commonly treated cruelly and then slaughtered painfully every minute of every day? A fetus floating around in a warm, dark, comparatively quiet world has very little to be complaining about. It hasn't had a chance to experience life, and even if it developed in a way that allowed it to see the world, its brain isn't developed enough to appreciate it. There are organisms in the world much more deserving of this defense.

Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2011, 07:42:22 pm »
^ I would disagree with that statement 100%.  It is a child.  It is not a part of the mother.  It is not a parasite.  It is not an alien.  It is a child.  Recent studies have shown that a fetus can feel pain as early as seven or eight weeks after being conceived.

http://www.abortionfacts.com/online_books/love_them_both/why_cant_we_love_them_both_14.asp#By%208%20weeks?%20Show%20me!

Here's a disturbing video done of an abortion done on a 12 week old.  (Part 3 is the disturbing one out of them).

http://scottthong.wordpress.com/2009/03/11/the-silent-scream-ultrasound-video-of-a-baby-being-brutally-aborted/

Though I can see where you're coming form with wanting to compare an abortion to the slaughtering of a cow, but it's a flawed argument.  We don't eat the babies, for one.  How many women are told of all of the risks that are related to an abortion?  Even the woman who represented toe Roe side of Roe vs. Wade feels that she didn't know all of the hazards, and has now become a voice for pro life.

http://www.nysun.com/editorials/roes-regrets/77677/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norma_McCorvey#Later_life

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_MUUvcvjEg

I'll agree that the option should be out there, but there needs to be more efforts to educate the women who are considering it.
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Offline jaqua

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2011, 08:29:58 pm »
^ I should have clarified that while I'm 100% for abortion being legal and available, I don't think it's something that should be taken lightly, nor is it something that should be used as a primary form of birth control (though I'm sure most women who have had an abortion will tell you that they are not pleasant experiences and they wouldn't want to get one again if it could be avoided-- my mother had an abortion before she had me, and she said that while she doesn't regret it, it was a very painful and unpleasant procedure that she would prefer never to have to repeat). The terminating of a life is a horrible thing that should be absolutely avoided wherever possible.

My main problem with people who are 100% pro-life and anti-abortion is that a majority of them (not all, of course, but from what I've observed, a startling number) apply this defense for life only to the species homo sapiens, which is just appallingly wrong on so many moral levels to me. If you're going to advocate protection of life it needs to be toward all species, and not just toward your own. That's not pro-life, that's pro-human life, which is completely different and in my opinion abhorrently selfish and self-righteous.

I don't really understand what not eating babies has to do with your counter-argument, though. If we did, would abortion then be okay (or at least, more okay), since they were being killed as a source of food? However, I do absolutely agree with your statement of educating women considering it. Birth control in the form of condoms, the pill, intrauterine devices, etc should be stressed as being far superior and preferable to waiting until you're pregnant and settling for an abortion.

Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2011, 08:40:59 pm »
Okay.  I see where you were going with that now.  My apologies.

However, I will disagree with you about the protection of life in "all its forms."  There is nothing wrong with the concept of the meat industry.  I, for one, enjoy eating the flesh of another animal.  I am an animal, myself.  Various species eat the meat of other animals, some even consume the flesh of their own kind.

I will agree that many (though I don't know how many) should do more to have their animals live life before it's there time.  Not only would it appear to be more humane, but it also effects the flavoring of these animals for the better.
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Offline jaqua

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2011, 12:25:01 am »
No problem!

I'll agree somewhat that the concept of the meat industry is okay, but there are many things wrong with the meat industry itself, mainly in the way its animals are treated before their death. They're kept in cages far too small for them, fed things you wouldn't feed your worst enemy-- chickens, especially, are frequently underfed, and resort to cannibalism in order to stay alive, all while stuffed into cages just large enough to stand partially upright and maybe turn in a small circle, which are rarely (if ever) cleaned. Not to mention the fact that these cages are usually stacked on each other so that the feces of one chicken falls onto the one beneath it. They are then left in dark, overcrowded, unventilated warehouses until they're needed for food. Cows and pigs often suffer similar treatment, and cows are also treated poorly when it comes to the dairy industry. Cows need to have had a calf recently to be at a prime milk-producing state, and commonly have their (newborn) calves taken from them, and sometimes never see them again, since calves are taken away to make veal, which is possibly one of the cruelest foods invented.

... This isn't really about abortion anymore, now I'm just ranting about my views on animal abuse. Oops.

I'm gonna clarify (I like to clarify) that I eat meat, and dairy, and I'm all for people eating what they want to eat; however, I feel people should be more conscious of the food they're eating and where it came from, and of making sure that the animal they're eating had a good life and weren't mistreated and abused. A good general rule is if you wouldn't let your cat, or dog, or bird, or lizard, or whatever live in the conditions your meal was raised in, you probably shouldn't be supporting the company supplying it.

Offline Chibachi Nero

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2011, 12:40:19 am »
^ I agree with basically everything above. It's fine and natural to consume meat and dairy, but there's no excuse for treating the animals horribly.

And re: abortion, I have to disagree with you Washu. At the age the vast majority of fetuses are aborted, they are not able to survive outside of their mother (essentially making them a parasite) and, while they do have some capacity to feel pain, I do not believe that they count yet as human beings. Late term abortions are another thing, which I am 100% against except in the most extenuating of circumstances, where having the baby could cause serious harm or death to the mother, because at that point the baby is much more developed, and often would be able to survive outside the mother (think preemies). But I believe that the distinction should be made.

Offline jaqua

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2011, 01:18:58 am »
^ Yes yes yes, exactly all of that.

Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2011, 08:45:29 pm »
1. Okay folks I'm a moderate Democrat but I have to get my 2 cents uin here. I agree with Jaybug to a pint in that i think Liberals are TS, but then again i think a lot of ultra-conservatives are NUTS. Over the course of the last 3 or 4 decades political vitriol has slowly been poisoning in this country setting up and us against them mentality which i think is NUTS! He have to remember that in the end we are all Americans. And while things maybe bad now now we WILL get out of this mess. The United States of America is the greatest ccountry in the world. If the good people on the Kumoricon staff will please pardon my language but...it will be a cold day in hell before we're taken down by anyone or anything. There are problems. Barack Obama in my personal opinion has proven without a doubt to have a competentcy level that makes Geoge H.W. Bush and Jimmy Carter's administrations look like models of efficiency. But we will get through this so we have to keep our chins up.

2. Let's face it folks we got some SERIOUS problems in this country. We have to secure our borders, we have to get jobs of the industrial grade back into this country, and a lot of these unnecessary regulations have GOT to go. Don't get me wrong regulation can be a good thing. It keeps the industrial and corporate gangsters from running amuck. But too much regulation and creativity and progress get stifled. And now more than ever we need creativity. And Barack Obama just doesn't get that. What we need in the White House is a moderate Repblican or Democrat who can in the words of Larry the Canle Guy "Get er' done." Because now is not the time for ideology, now is the time for practiciality.

Thank you for this wonderful thread on politics where civility reigns. In the world of politics this is a breath of fresh air.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2011, 07:14:00 am by Animeman73 »
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Offline GregAtlas

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2011, 01:25:12 am »
I hope we can get back to the constitution myself. I'm tired of our federal government and especially certain state governments passing laws and bills that restrict, twist, and in some cases nullify the constitution which I believe is the core of what the USA is based on. I would like it if George Washington or Abraham Lincoln could see how things are going in our "modern" era and be proud but I doubt that is the case as we stand now. It can get worse though...
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Offline @random

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2011, 07:07:56 am »
What we need in the White is a moderate Repblican or Democrat who can in the words of Larry the Canle Guy "Get er' done." Because now is not the time for ideology, now is the time for practiciality.

Question: How is either party supposed to simply "Get 'er done" if one party votes/filibusters in unison against anything the other party proposes? That's pretty much what we've been seeing happen.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2011, 07:43:34 am by @random »
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Offline TomtheFanboy

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2011, 11:20:01 am »
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Offline Chibachi Nero

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2011, 04:36:26 pm »
What we need in the White is a moderate Repblican or Democrat who can in the words of Larry the Canle Guy "Get er' done." Because now is not the time for ideology, now is the time for practiciality.

Question: How is either party supposed to simply "Get 'er done" if one party votes/filibusters in unison against anything the other party proposes? That's pretty much what we've been seeing happen.

Uuuugh thisthisthis. This is what pisses me off about American politics right now. The idea of two parties views is a good one, in that it ensures that at least two opposing views can be heard. But it seems like lately, instead of trying to reach a compromise that suits everyone to some degree all the parties are interested in is saying the opposite of what the other party is saying. The parties should be a way to foster debate and come up with the best possible solution, but instead I'm wondering if we should just send everyone back to kndergarten, because they seem to have forgotten how to share and compromise.

Offline dark4ever

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2011, 07:23:58 pm »
The two things I feel really strongly about: Abortion and Gay Marriage

Since my views have been said on abortion (everything Chibachi Nero has said so far) my very basic views on gay marriage.

I was raised christian and always have been, but I guess the one thing that really stuck with me was acceptance. My view is very simple: If you don't like gay marriage, don't get one. Just because I'm straight doesn't mean my friends who are gay or bi shouldn't be allowed to get married. If people want to use the religion card, I'll come right back at them with a few arguments
1. They choose to be gay? Yeah, like someone chooses to be allergic to something or to be tall or brunette.
2. The bible tells you it's wrong? It also says it's okay to sell your daughter into slavery, stone people who work on sundays and to impregnate a hooker instead of masturbate
3. They can't have babies? Well, so can't women who are infertile, rather by choice, age or not. Oh, and to lay on the guilt? Girls who were raped. Usually they never even get their periods because of the damage.
4. They'll abandon kids, which is wrong? So, you can't be single and have a kid? Oh, and most of those kids were abandoned by irresponsible straight people.

Most of this was taken from (or just voiced by) this video- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQmprNdamNg&list=FLWVtZHHYBKbjZNW75NO8ZUQ&index=85
(WARNING: LOTS AND LOTS OF F BOMBS IN THE VIDEO)
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Offline GregAtlas

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2011, 03:09:32 am »
O.o what version of the Bible are you getting that from? Sounds like a lot of twisting of words there.
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Offline jaqua

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2011, 05:39:52 am »
Dude, there's lots of bad stuff in the bible. Give Deuteronomy a read, it's definitely... interesting.

Offline dark4ever

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2011, 10:20:51 am »
We've actually studied parts that are no longer applicable in church. I wish I could give you the verses, I really do, but I don't have the paper with me (It got left at home- didn't think I'd need it).
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Offline jaqua

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2011, 01:25:08 pm »

Offline dark4ever

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #34 on: October 20, 2011, 10:18:19 am »
Oh my god, that makes me laugh xD
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Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #35 on: October 29, 2011, 09:00:28 pm »
Well!

I've been in a nutrition hype lately, I could go on and on about the evil of the USDA and it's direct contribution to the obesity/diabetes epidemic.

I recently have become a very strong supporter of Ron Paul. One thing that really irritates me is when people make statements like, "He'll never win the presidency" or "He's a nut". I think these kinds of statements are a direct reflection of the media's power. When the media tells you that there are WMDs in Iraq, they must be there, right? We all know how that went down.

So if the media says he can't win, that must be the case!

Ron Paul is easily the most consistent, most educated candidate, and he is the only one who can beat Obama in 2012. I'm not a particular fan of either the Democrats or Republicans (in fact, I would rather have Obama as president than any of the Republican candidates other than Ron Paul).

If Ron Paul does not gain the Republican nomination in 2012, mark my words: Obama will be the next president.

He is easily the top third (probably second) contender for the Republican nomination, but because he has been blacked out, made fun of, and outright ignored, the people are led to think he cannot win. You should look up the polls if you don't believe me. The establishment is afraid of him. When the media is telling you "no", this is the time to question why. This is exactly like what happened with Kucinich in 08. But Ron Paul has been gaining steam and he IS in the top tier, despite what the media says.

Ron Paul supports alternative medicine (he himself is an MD) and believes that people should have the right to drink raw milk. I know this seems minor, but as I stated above, the USDA has been the prime facilitator in perpetuating the obesity epidemic. Go to www.mercola.com and read about the things Americans have been putting into their bodies.

Anyway, this is my two cents on politics. I know I'm going to get some negative reactions, but bring it on, I guess.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2011, 09:01:11 pm by HalcyonFour »
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Offline Animeman73

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #36 on: October 29, 2011, 09:26:35 pm »
You're entitiled to your opinion HalcyonFour and i respect them. But with all due respect i disgree.


There's no doubt Obama has botched this agenda real bad. He didn't start the bleeding but he has made it worse with his ideoplogical agenda. I'm actuually hoping for either Mitt Romney or herman Cain to get it. Ron paul has some interesting ideas but he also has a lot of idea which economically and internationally would be disastrous for this country. I do however believe whoeevr becoomes president should hire Newt gingrich as a political advisor as the man has some good ideas that would work ecoonomically.

And lets face it folks Obama is proving to be his own worst enemy at the rate he's alienating everyone there's no way he'll be president for another four years. it's just simply not happening.

I also believe this. I think the PC parents groups and politicians need to get out of "Working to contain violence on T.V." Because these days they're actually doing more harm then good. If the parents and politcal fgroup want to curtail violence stop blaming T.V., movies, and video games and take more active role in their own kids' lives in teaching them good values. It's a little something called responsibility. And more importantly parents should talk to their kids about what they watch, again that's responsibility, and it's also a means of opening communication with their kids.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2011, 01:20:34 pm by Animeman73 »
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Offline GregAtlas

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #37 on: October 29, 2011, 09:45:01 pm »
I have not looked into who is running or not so personally I have no clue who those people are. I doubt Obama will get another term though, especially after operation fast and furious, which of course is receiving almost no media coverage.

That is a good point about the milk thing and I was surprised to find out a few years ago it was illegal to buy/sell unpasteurized (real) milk. I'm even more surprised on how Obama was trying to push that bill that would make it so nobody can grow their own garden anymore because you had to buy and use USDA approved fertilizer and pesticides. It is no wonder auto-immune disorders are so rampant these days...

I say I am surprised when I really shouldn't be...
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Offline reppy

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #38 on: October 29, 2011, 10:52:11 pm »
Ron Paul supports alternative medicine (he himself is an MD) and believes that people should have the right to drink raw milk. I know this seems minor, but as I stated above, the USDA has been the prime facilitator in perpetuating the obesity epidemic. Go to www.mercola.com and read about the things Americans have been putting into their bodies.

Anyway, this is my two cents on politics. I know I'm going to get some negative reactions, but bring it on, I guess.

I get the daily Mercola newsletter.  xD  I don't really like how everything is overhyped so much, but there is some very good info on it.

I think it's ridiculous that people cannot sell unpasteurized milk across state lines. Afaik, it's legal as long as it's in your state. Or am I wrong? :0

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Offline GregAtlas

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #39 on: October 29, 2011, 11:01:01 pm »
Ever seen unpasteurized milk in a store? Whole Foods would have it if it were possible.
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Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #40 on: October 30, 2011, 12:09:46 am »
You're entitiled to your opinion HalcyonFour and i respect them. But with all due respect i disgree.


 Ron paul has some interesting ideas but he also has a lot of idea which economically and internationally would be disastrous for this country. I do however believe whoeevr becoomes president should hire Newt gingrich as a political advisor as the man has some good ideas that would work ecoonomically.

I also believe this. I think the PC parents groups and politicians need to get out of "Working to contain violence on T.V." Because these days they're actually doing more harm then good. If the parents and politcal fgroup want to curtail violence stop blaming T.V., movies, and video games and take more active role in their own kids' lives in teaching them good values. It's a little something called responsibility. ANd more importantly parents should talk to their kids about what they watch, again that's responsibility, and it's also a means of opening ccommunication with their kids.


I find it very interesting that you believe this. It suggests that you would disagree with general censorship. Do you know that Ron Paul is one of the few (if any) politicians who has consistently advocated against the FCC, repeatedly defending our First Amendment rights? You can find his views on the matter here: http://libertymaven.com/2007/05/23/ron-paul-on-censorship-and-first-amendment/36/

As far as his suggestions being internationally and economically disastrous, I would beg to differ. He is the only candidate who has endorsed a plan to cut taxes AND cut spending. Do you know how economic policy has traditionally played out? Cut taxes and INCREASE spending...that is, create more debt with money we don't have. Most politicians bow to corporate interests; they are bought and sold, and no matter what they tell the people, they answer to a very specific authority. The same thing will happen (i.e., cut taxes, increase spending) if anyone BUT Ron Paul gets elected to the presidency. He refuses to participate in the Congressional pension system, returns a portion of his salary back to the U.S. Treasury every month, and is a champion for individual rights. 

You're right. Obama has done a lousy job, but unless we get someone like Kucinich or Nader, or of course Paul, the same thing will continue to happen.

And as far as foreign policy is concerned, I believe that his is the sanest. Do you have any idea about Middle Eastern politics? OMG, they are soooo sick and tired of U.S. intervention, and there is a real threat that they will no longer bow to U.S. whims. First the U.S. targets Al Qaeda and then places them in power. What is going on here?!  Dr. Paul's policy is to refrain from these types of tactics and to quit policing the world. Unless you agree with the philosophy that policing the world is the type of policy that the U.S. should be pursuing, I frankly don't understand how his policies can be disastrous. So please clarify what you mean by that.

 
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Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #41 on: October 30, 2011, 12:14:11 am »
I have not looked into who is running or not so personally I have no clue who those people are. I doubt Obama will get another term though, especially after operation fast and furious, which of course is receiving almost no media coverage.

That is a good point about the milk thing and I was surprised to find out a few years ago it was illegal to buy/sell unpasteurized (real) milk. I'm even more surprised on how Obama was trying to push that bill that would make it so nobody can grow their own garden anymore because you had to buy and use USDA approved fertilizer and pesticides. It is no wonder auto-immune disorders are so rampant these days...

I say I am surprised when I really shouldn't be...

Oh MY GOSH, I did not know this!!!

Have you heard about the suicide seed? Look it up, it's being developed by Monsanto. It's the scariest thing in the world; it's basically looking to create a form of plants that will produce sterile seed. This means that farmers won't even be able to save their seed if they wanted to. Can you imagine what will happen if these "suicide seeds" contaminate with normal crops?!

He who controls the food supply controls the world...
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Offline reppy

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #42 on: October 30, 2011, 12:17:24 am »
I have not looked into who is running or not so personally I have no clue who those people are. I doubt Obama will get another term though, especially after operation fast and furious, which of course is receiving almost no media coverage.

That is a good point about the milk thing and I was surprised to find out a few years ago it was illegal to buy/sell unpasteurized (real) milk. I'm even more surprised on how Obama was trying to push that bill that would make it so nobody can grow their own garden anymore because you had to buy and use USDA approved fertilizer and pesticides. It is no wonder auto-immune disorders are so rampant these days...

I say I am surprised when I really shouldn't be...

Oh MY GOSH, I did not know this!!!

Have you heard about the suicide seed? Look it up, it's being developed by Monsanto. It's the scariest thing in the world; it's basically looking to create a form of plants that will produce sterile seed. This means that farmers won't even be able to save their seed if they wanted to. Can you imagine what will happen if these "suicide seeds" contaminate with normal crops?!

He who controls the food supply controls the world...

I've heard of this before.  It is honestly one of the most disgusting, inhumane, selfish things I have ever heard in my life. Greed at its worst.

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Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #43 on: October 30, 2011, 12:18:58 am »
Ron Paul supports alternative medicine (he himself is an MD) and believes that people should have the right to drink raw milk. I know this seems minor, but as I stated above, the USDA has been the prime facilitator in perpetuating the obesity epidemic. Go to www.mercola.com and read about the things Americans have been putting into their bodies.

Anyway, this is my two cents on politics. I know I'm going to get some negative reactions, but bring it on, I guess.

I get the daily Mercola newsletter.  xD  I don't really like how everything is overhyped so much, but there is some very good info on it.

I think it's ridiculous that people cannot sell unpasteurized milk across state lines. Afaik, it's legal as long as it's in your state. Or am I wrong? :0

I know, and it's kind of annoying the way that he endorses his products as the only answer.

I also find it a little bit...scary that he endorses the USDA stamp of approval so much. There have been recent findings that have shown that the USDA has actually been slacking in enforcing a lot of their organic standards. Mercola has not mentioned this in any of his articles, and I wonder why. I really hope that he is not being paid by the USDA to endorse that stamp of approval. I don't think so, but I just find it a bit odd that he has not recognized this.

It scares me to wonder whether the USDA organic stamp is going to be yet another tool of manipulation...and if it's not enforced, then really, it's useless.
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Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #44 on: October 30, 2011, 12:20:12 am »
I have not looked into who is running or not so personally I have no clue who those people are. I doubt Obama will get another term though, especially after operation fast and furious, which of course is receiving almost no media coverage.

That is a good point about the milk thing and I was surprised to find out a few years ago it was illegal to buy/sell unpasteurized (real) milk. I'm even more surprised on how Obama was trying to push that bill that would make it so nobody can grow their own garden anymore because you had to buy and use USDA approved fertilizer and pesticides. It is no wonder auto-immune disorders are so rampant these days...

I say I am surprised when I really shouldn't be...

Oh MY GOSH, I did not know this!!!

Have you heard about the suicide seed? Look it up, it's being developed by Monsanto. It's the scariest thing in the world; it's basically looking to create a form of plants that will produce sterile seed. This means that farmers won't even be able to save their seed if they wanted to. Can you imagine what will happen if these "suicide seeds" contaminate with normal crops?!

He who controls the food supply controls the world...

I've heard of this before.  It is honestly one of the most disgusting, inhumane, selfish things I have ever heard in my life. Greed at its worst.

I know, man!

It seriously gives me the incentive to give conspiracy theories a second glance.
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Offline GregAtlas

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #45 on: October 30, 2011, 12:30:33 am »
Okay, I just did a quick search on that garden thing that was also intended to ban organic farming as well. I haven't re-read the bill since it was first being shoved through but according to this search it is called HR 875 & S 425 if you want to look it up (my eyes hurt too much right now to do a lot of reading so I hope this is what I'm remembering.) It was a big hush hush operation at the time too.
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Offline reppy

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #46 on: October 30, 2011, 12:51:28 am »
I know, and it's kind of annoying the way that he endorses his products as the only answer.

I also find it a little bit...scary that he endorses the USDA stamp of approval so much. There have been recent findings that have shown that the USDA has actually been slacking in enforcing a lot of their organic standards. Mercola has not mentioned this in any of his articles, and I wonder why. I really hope that he is not being paid by the USDA to endorse that stamp of approval. I don't think so, but I just find it a bit odd that he has not recognized this.

It scares me to wonder whether the USDA organic stamp is going to be yet another tool of manipulation...and if it's not enforced, then really, it's useless.

Hehe, yeah. I just take his advice, then research the best alternative on my own. =)

I don't know much about the USDA, but I wouldn't be surprised there was corporate cronyism involved.  I mean, it's everywhere else you look. :\


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Offline Darknight2433

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #47 on: October 30, 2011, 01:10:25 am »
The USDA does wonders- it's the reason a lot of people are alive right now.

Also, Montanto has been trying to give out infertile seeds for a long time- it got outlawed, and now they just have a 'honesty policy' where the farmers they sell the seeds to promise to not use them for next year, and merely buy another batch.

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Offline HalcyonFour

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #48 on: October 30, 2011, 02:44:55 am »
The USDA does wonders- it's the reason a lot of people are alive right now.

Have you all seen Food Inc?

I would like to respectfully disagree with the first statement. The USDA is one of the the reasons why we have obesity, diabetes, are being poisoned by high fructose corn syrup, and I would bet that they contribute to world hunger by subsidizing ethanol. As far as Monsanto goes, I'm going to have to wait a bit. It's just a matter of time before they can claw their way into making it legal. For many years, the patenting of seeds was not allowed, but now it is. I figure it's just a matter of time before they can buy the legalization of the suicide seed.

I have seen Food Inc. It was an excellent documentary and snapped me out of my conventional food trance.

Have you seen Fat Head? It's on Netflix. It exposes the lipid hypothesis, the biggest scientific scam that the USDA has perpetuated. Very interesting, you should look it up.
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Offline @random

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Re: say ALMOST anything we want about politics
« Reply #49 on: October 30, 2011, 04:06:48 am »
The USDA used to do wonders, whether they still do or not. Once upon a time, the meatpacking industry and other food producers had "convinced" the government (or at least their wallets) that it could be trusted, and the government agency nominally in charge of inspecting food was little more than a facade. To break the fallacy that food industries can be trusted to self-police, it took The Jungle and so much mass food-poisoning (aka ptomaine) that it was the leading cause of death among young adults. The USDA was created, and food got much safer than it had been in a long time.

Flash-forward a century, and the USDA doesn't even have the power to demand a recall when food starts killing people. They have to ask nicely and hope that the company will do so in a timely fashion - i.e. before 5/6th of it has already been consumed, as happened in a 2002 ConAgra incident. And their ability to even inspect food, pronounce something unsafe, or go after false claims has been whittled down to almost nothing.

Corporations around the turn of the last century pretty much ran everything, until massive outcry and popular movement forced reform. We're starting to see repeats of history all over the place - the abuses of the mortgage industry, the almost-open buying of politicians, using quasi-legal immigration to break the labor movement, the food industry scandals, etc. YMMV, but I think the Occupy movement may be the first serious sign that people have had enough.
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