Drugs at Con

[Koopa]

Ok, so next year I'm going to be a Yojimbo as well as a few other things that I will be doing. I would like to know of any experiences that any con-goer might have had, positive or negative when it pertains to drugs. I had to deal with some people having bad trips(that is NOT good)! So please let me know!

[reppy]

Drugs is bad, mmmkay? Get high on anime!

[wolfy2491]

Someone was doing drugs at the con? 



But it's like Disneyland! The happiest place on earth! There's no drugs in Kumoricon. lol.

[Namazzi]

Wow. That's sad if someone did. 

Fortunately, I didn't come across anyone like this. 

[Rathany]

With the noise and confusion inherent in any con?  It's a bad idea and also very, very against our policies. 

[leonmasteries]

if you find someone who actually decides to do drugs, inject them with hallucinogen, than tie them up and force them to watch something like Excel Saga, just to teach them drugs are bad the hard way.

But in all seriousness, certain drugs could in fact kill you, even the one's prescribed by a doctor. Let's see, Methonaul, if even a little bit over the amount is taken can cause you to start throwing up blood and has a hi chance of killing the user. Cocaine has a mix of effects, Marijuana isn't bad, it's just illegal. Let's see, a few other bad drugs are things like Adrenocrome (it's made from a human adrenalin gland) it tends to have a worse reaction than speed to where everything tends to quicken to such a degree that your heart could literally explode and it could even cause hallucinations. I'm trying to remember some other drugs that should never be used under any circumstances, but I think I posted some of the worst stuff I've ever had to study and have seen the effect of on others.

[Koopa]

Well it doesn't stop people from doing drugs at the con. I was appointed to find people that where high. I don't mean smoking pot, I mean things like E. There was a few people at the dances. It can ruin peoples fun. I know that there where a lot of people that were high. I just sent them back to there rooms b/c there are really no policy's about them other than don't do it.

[Ac-town]

What you do outside of con is your own business. If you bring it into the con, then it becomes an issue. Thats how I see it.

[Daxe]

Kcon hosts a Rave. You Will Have People On E. Raves Attract Pill Poppers. You Cant Get Around It. Unless you stop hosting the rave (what is typically called the dance, its really a rave.) I think the best thing to do is what a previous poster said they did. Just send them back to their rooms. If you start getting cops or parents involved you start getting sued and losing the ability to host such events

[Koopa]

I see it that way as well. It was really hard dealing with people that were high on drugs. I'm not talking about drinking or smoking pot. I'm talking about acid and other drugs that make you see ****. That was really hard to get them to listen and I can spot it from a mile away. I know its an all ages and that' what makes it harder.

[Koopa]

Kcon hosts a Rave. You Will Have People On E. Raves Attract Pill Poppers. You Cant Get Around It. Unless you stop hosting the rave (what is typically called the dance, its really a rave.) I think the best thing to do is what a previous poster said they did. Just send them back to their rooms. If you start getting cops or parents involved you start getting sued and losing the ability to host such events

 Well that's what I did. The board didn't know that there was drugs going on. Hence why they appointed me to look for it. We had to get a person out of one of the dances that couldn't even stand.

[reppy]

I see it that way as well. It was really hard dealing with people that were high on drugs. I'm not talking about drinking or smoking pot. I'm talking about acid and other drugs that make you see ****. That was really hard to get them to listen and I can spot it from a mile away. I know its an all ages and that' what makes it harder.

I saw a few people that had gigantic pupils and I'm thinking, "Yeahhhhhhh... and you want to hug me? D:"

[Cyprus]

 I would have to agree with Rathany...the con's already bring in a type of controlled chaos...would be a bad idea indeed. Not to mention there are kids there as well as adults that deserve a drug free environment.  As was already stated, that kind of thing could ruin people's fun as well as endanger our right to have such an event. So please, do that on YOUR time and not everybody else's. 

[Koopa]

I saw a few people that had gigantic pupils and I'm thinking, "Yeahhhhhhh... and you want to hug me? D:"
[/quote]

There you go. I met quite a few people like that. The hugs are okay, its just when they can't stand and there to f-ed up. One person tried to hug the assistant ops director. LOL he called me to check to see if they were on E. It was funny but not at the same time. 

[Daxe]

Thats the thing with acid. If you try to intervene at all you are going to change their trip. Acid is a brain reprogrammer. If you mess with someone on acid theres a pretty good chance you are going to be directly **** with their subconscious. Its a bitch but if you leave them alone then they **** with others, if you interact with them then you could be doing more harm than you know. So the question arises when you have to ask. When does the person on acid give up the right to be effected by others? How do we respect their person while trying to get them to respect ours? What do we do? My suggestions?

- Toss them out of the hotel/con space. Let them walk around outside in a corner until they come back to us.
OR
- Have a room where you can put people found to be on drugs (like a drunk tank, only for acid), and this is important. Have a special yojimbo or other staff member who is very familiar with the effects of acid and able to talk people down through bad trips. Have them come and trip sit. After they are "resuscitated" maybe that staff member or yojimbo can talk to them about it and see if they want help. Connect them to some kind of drug recovery version of al-anon. If they dont want help or they refuse to cooperate after they've "come back" kick them out of the con.


NOW. If its something else entirely like mushrooms, just let them sit somewhere and watch fancy lights. Most of the time the best way to deal with drugged people is to just let them sit and come off the high.

If they are on E, theres probably a good chance at a rave or anywhere else for that matter they are going to be getting pretty handsy with people who dont like it. Toss them out of the con space. E doesnt have the same kind of subconscious reprogramming from a bad trip that Acid or LSD does.

Anything harder like Heroine or Meth, call the cops.

[Lin]

Man where is a giant play-pen when you need one.

[Koopa]

Thats the thing with acid. If you try to intervene at all you are going to change their trip. Acid is a brain reprogrammer. If you mess with someone on acid theres a pretty good chance you are going to be directly **** with their subconscious. Its a bitch but if you leave them alone then they **** with others, if you interact with them then you could be doing more harm than you know. So the question arises when you have to ask. When does the person on acid give up the right to be effected by others? How do we respect their person while trying to get them to respect ours? What do we do? My suggestions?

- Toss them out of the hotel/con space. Let them walk around outside in a corner until they come back to us.
OR
- Have a room where you can put people found to be on drugs (like a drunk tank, only for acid), and this is important. Have a special yojimbo or other staff member who is very familiar with the effects of acid and able to talk people down through bad trips. Have them come and trip sit. After they are "resuscitated" maybe that staff member or yojimbo can talk to them about it and see if they want help. Connect them to some kind of drug recovery version of al-anon. If they dont want help or they refuse to cooperate after they've "come back" kick them out of the con.


NOW. If its something else entirely like mushrooms, just let them sit somewhere and watch fancy lights. Most of the time the best way to deal with drugged people is to just let them sit and come off the high.

If they are on E, theres probably a good chance at a rave or anywhere else for that matter they are going to be getting pretty handsy with people who dont like it. Toss them out of the con space. E doesnt have the same kind of subconscious reprogramming from a bad trip that Acid or LSD does.

Anything harder like Heroine or Meth, call the cops.

Well the special person is me! Mushrooms can have the same reprogramming as acid. I know b/c I've taken both. I've taken E as well. That's why I'm the head of this. I have a very good ability of turning bad trips into good ones. With acid or mushrooms, its like a snowball effect. If there having a bad thought then its going to go bad. Same with a good thought. Letting them sit IS the best way to go. Making sure that there in a positive environment when there sitting. The thing is, its not illegal to be high. That's what makes this a hard thing to deal with.     

[Koopa]

By the way, Acid and LSD is the same thing

[Daxe]

By the way, Acid and LSD is the same thing

Poor punctuation on my part. I should have used a / instead of the word or.
They are the same thing, sometimes they are called one or the other based on the form they are in.

[Animeman73]

Hmph, I look on the whole concept of taking drugs with contempt  . I never saw anyone doing any drugs myself but the prospect of someone at the convention taking drugs makes me sick! As a martial artist i pride myself on taking care of myself that means no illegal drugs. Some of my younger male schoolmates from the Taekwondo demonstration were high but on naturally occuring hormones. The sight of some of the ladies there in their outfits sent their hormones into overdrive. But nope I didn't see any illegal drugs at the convention only naturally occuring silliness  .

[EveofAbyss]

The fact that the concept of doing drugs is even being given any leniency here is kind of shocking to me. These are illegal drugs, people are doing them at a family-friendly event, and people are basically saying "eh, stuff happens. Just tolerate it." What kind of an approach to doing illegal drugs is that? Just put them in a room and let them come off their high? Are you insane? IF any self-respecting business had that approach they'd be in the gutter before you could spell it.

This seems like a no-brainer to me, but I'm the first person to seem to think it, so maybe I'm just off-base with it.

[Daxe]

And I look on Taekwondo being a martial art with contempt. But we cant force our personal beliefs, opinions and choices on others. They have the free will to do drugs if they want to. Its a different social culture. Yeah we see it as destructive and maybe we hate, love or pitty those that do them but either way we cant just write it off, sooner or later kcon has to come up with a way to deal with those that do them in the con space.

[Kagome219]

Anything harder like Heroine or Meth, call the cops.

"Anything harder"?! Are you serious? I'm sorry, but an illegal drug is an illegal drug for a reason. I've been through enough health classes and having to be adopted at birth from a drug-addicted mother (quick switch off: when she knew she was having me she stopped to get me a good life) to know the effects of drugs. It's of course having to do with the safety of others, but the safety of yourself is JUST AS IMPORTANT. You could think you are bringing the right dose to do or have done, but it could be a lot stronger than expected and you could seriously be harmed by it. And yes, I do mean such things as LSD, MDMA, or anything else including alcohol or tobacco. By saving yourself from harm you will be saving others as well.

JUST DON'T DO THEM! ESPECIALLY AT OUR KUMORICON!

(I do understand different beliefs and opinions, I am just stating my own, to make things clear.)

[reppy]

I personally think there should be a zero tolerance policy towards drugs.  And that would extend to alcohol: if you're drunk in the con before midnight, you're booted!  But that's just me. ^_^;

(I imagine there's a similar policy already in place.. but I'm not familiar with the particulars or how much it is enforced.)

It just seems too dangerous to tolerate drugs at the con.  What you do in your personal time is your choice.  But when you're at the convention surrounded by lots of kids you could potentially be placing them in danger.

[superjaz]

I know a way to discourage drug use at con, make em eat spam and stick them in a bouncy castles
and shake

but seriously, between caffeine, candy, the booze in peeps rooms and lack of sleep we do not need to add drugs into the mix

[Daxe]

I know a way to discourage drug use at con, make em eat spam and stick them in a bouncy castles
and shake

but seriously, between caffeine, candy, the booze in peeps rooms and lack of sleep we do not need to add drugs into the mix

Caffeine, candy, hell even anime are/can be drugs.

[Daxe]

I personally think there should be a zero tolerance policy towards drugs.  And that would extend to alcohol: if you're drunk in the con before midnight, you're booted!  But that's just me. ^_^;

(I imagine there's a similar policy already in place.. but I'm not familiar with the particulars or how much it is enforced.)

It just seems too dangerous to tolerate drugs at the con.  What you do in your personal time is your choice.  But when you're at the convention surrounded by lots of kids you could potentially be placing them in danger.

Im curious where you would place the line between having alcohol in a con space and being part of a con in a public place? At what point does one become a public nuisance and the other not?

[Koopa]

I'm consider the expert on this. That's why they have me doing this. Being high is not illegal though. You just can't have anything on you. Oregon is a weird state. You can be high in public just not drunk. You juts can't kick them out of the con. That would be the worst thing you could do. When they sober up the yes you might be able to kick them out but not when there high. This is a trick subject. YOU HAVE TO KEEP THEM SAFE! The reason for this posting is to see what other con-goers had to say and to see if they saw people, that way we can get a handle on it next year. You have to be careful when handling things like this. If they freak out, that's not good. Kicking them out could freak them out more. When on things like acid, people can get Hulk rage. Trying to physically move them out of the space is not good either. They can get as strong as the Hulk.

[Rathany]

I personally think there should be a zero tolerance policy towards drugs.  And that would extend to alcohol: if you're drunk in the con before midnight, you're booted!  But that's just me. ^_^;

(I imagine there's a similar policy already in place.. but I'm not familiar with the particulars or how much it is enforced.)

It just seems too dangerous to tolerate drugs at the con.  What you do in your personal time is your choice.  But when you're at the convention surrounded by lots of kids you could potentially be placing them in danger.

I fully concur with pulling badges and being escorted out of con space for drug use.  Some drug use should also get people blacklisted.  But, anyway, yeah, if there are any flaws with our policy's it's for teh next Board to look into

[Koopa]

And I look on Taekwondo being a martial art with contempt. But we cant force our personal beliefs, opinions and choices on others. They have the free will to do drugs if they want to. Its a different social culture. Yeah we see it as destructive and maybe we hate, love or pitty those that do them but either way we cant just write it off, sooner or later kcon has to come up with a way to deal with those that do them in the con space.

So true. You just can't kick them out of the con. We do need a way to handle this.

[reppy]

I personally think there should be a zero tolerance policy towards drugs.  And that would extend to alcohol: if you're drunk in the con before midnight, you're booted!  But that's just me. ^_^;

(I imagine there's a similar policy already in place.. but I'm not familiar with the particulars or how much it is enforced.)

It just seems too dangerous to tolerate drugs at the con.  What you do in your personal time is your choice.  But when you're at the convention surrounded by lots of kids you could potentially be placing them in danger.

Im curious where you would place the line between having alcohol in a con space and being part of a con in a public place? At what point does one become a public nuisance and the other not?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean.  But why should something have to become a nuisance before it's dealt with?  Alcohol in particular has a history of making its users louder, aggressive, less shy than they might normally be.  In an area that is already loud, crowded, and full of people that are less than shy.. do we really want that?  Maybe "zero tolerance" for alcohol is a bit much, since there are people that just like to have a drink or two casually.  I guess my solution is that if someone is visibly drunk, harassing people, acting inappropriate, etc. then you have can deal with them by asking them to go to their hotel room or arrange to have them leave the convention until they are capable of acting appropriately. If they refuse to cooperate, revoke their badge. Of course, this might be standard operating procedure already.  I've never really looked too much into it.  I'm sure the Yojimbo/staff know this stuff.

[CMD Productions]

I agree that staffers should not be the ones dealing with people who are tripping or intoxicated by non legal means.  There is just too much liability that the con would have assume. Although it's not ideal it may be worth it to hire portland police officers to watch the dances or invite them to stop by. Forming a line of communication with the authorities may lessen the impact. I've been to tons of shows where the venue or promotors hire off duty police officers just to keep an eye on things. If nothing else it would make people feel safe and make the more shady individuals think twice about being openly messed up at our con spaces.

P.S.
Do not get rid of the booze at the con! I need a way to get to sleep after all the energy drinks... and deal with the hotel staff.

;p

[Koopa]

I personally think there should be a zero tolerance policy towards drugs.  And that would extend to alcohol: if you're drunk in the con before midnight, you're booted!  But that's just me. ^_^;

(I imagine there's a similar policy already in place.. but I'm not familiar with the particulars or how much it is enforced.)

It just seems too dangerous to tolerate drugs at the con.  What you do in your personal time is your choice.  But when you're at the convention surrounded by lots of kids you could potentially be placing them in danger.

I fully concur with pulling badges and being escorted out of con space for drug use.  Some drug use should also get people blacklisted.  But, anyway, yeah, if there are any flaws with our policy's it's for teh next Board to look into

I don't condone drugs but just kicking them out could have adverse effects. I don't have tolerance for it and neither does the con but kicking them out? Where would we draw the line of "some drug use"? To much caffeine is consider speed. You know?

[EveofAbyss]

I still think the approach is being too lenient. You're afraid of "Freaking people out" and "messing with their trips". That's just a weird approach to me. Allowing drug use to go on uninterrupted because it may "ruin their experience" is the biggest crock I've ever heard.

If they are already putting themselves in danger and risking their badge by doing the drugs, don't accommodate them by giving them a circle of isolation, so to speak. They chose to violate policies when they did the drugs; they weren't high before doing them, so you can't say they didn't understand the risks, because they did.

[Rathany]

And I look on Taekwondo being a martial art with contempt. But we cant force our personal beliefs, opinions and choices on others. They have the free will to do drugs if they want to. Its a different social culture. Yeah we see it as destructive and maybe we hate, love or pitty those that do them but either way we cant just write it off, sooner or later kcon has to come up with a way to deal with those that do them in the con space.

So true. You just can't kick them out of the con. We do need a way to handle this.

When we have an actual situation every effort needs to be for safety first.  But, I can't see any future board of Kcon being somehow OK with drug use at con. 

[Daxe]

I personally think there should be a zero tolerance policy towards drugs.  And that would extend to alcohol: if you're drunk in the con before midnight, you're booted!  But that's just me. ^_^;

(I imagine there's a similar policy already in place.. but I'm not familiar with the particulars or how much it is enforced.)

It just seems too dangerous to tolerate drugs at the con.  What you do in your personal time is your choice.  But when you're at the convention surrounded by lots of kids you could potentially be placing them in danger.

I fully concur with pulling badges and being escorted out of con space for drug use.  Some drug use should also get people blacklisted.  But, anyway, yeah, if there are any flaws with our policy's it's for teh next Board to look into

I don't condone drugs but just kicking them out could have adverse effects. I don't have tolerance for it and neither does the con but kicking them out? Where would we draw the line of "some drug use"? To much caffeine is consider speed. You know?

QFT

I still think the approach is being too lenient. You're afraid of "Freaking people out" and "messing with their trips". That's just a weird approach to me. Allowing drug use to go on uninterrupted because it may "ruin their experience" is the biggest crock I've ever heard.

Its not about ruining their experience. Its about doing irreparable damage to them by interacting in a way that directly **** up their subconscious.

I agree that staffers should not be the ones dealing with people who are tripping or intoxicated by non legal means.  There is just too much liability that the con would have assume. Although it's not ideal it may be worth it to hire portland police officers to watch the dances or invite them to stop by. Forming a line of communication with the authorities may lessen the impact. I've been to tons of shows where the venue or promotors hire off duty police officers just to keep an eye on things. If nothing else it would make people feel safe and make the more shady individuals think twice about being openly messed up at our con spaces.

P.S.
Do not get rid of the booze at the con! I need a way to get to sleep after all the energy drinks... and deal with the hotel staff.

;p

Im usually against inviting the Portland Police, they are waaaay too tazer happy.

[reppy]

I personally think there should be a zero tolerance policy towards drugs.  And that would extend to alcohol: if you're drunk in the con before midnight, you're booted!  But that's just me. ^_^;

(I imagine there's a similar policy already in place.. but I'm not familiar with the particulars or how much it is enforced.)

It just seems too dangerous to tolerate drugs at the con.  What you do in your personal time is your choice.  But when you're at the convention surrounded by lots of kids you could potentially be placing them in danger.

I fully concur with pulling badges and being escorted out of con space for drug use.  Some drug use should also get people blacklisted.  But, anyway, yeah, if there are any flaws with our policy's it's for teh next Board to look into

I don't condone drugs but just kicking them out could have adverse effects. I don't have tolerance for it and neither does the con but kicking them out? Where would we draw the line of "some drug use"? To much caffeine is consider speed. You know?

I've never known anyone that drank too much caffeine and then thought they were being attacked by an amorphous blob.  But that's just me. ^_^;

I don't particularly like the idea of a "trip" room.  I can't imagine having a room full of people freaking out on acid, mushrooms, methamphetamine, etc. is a particularly good idea.  I understand your concern for their safety but Kumoricon isn't Woodstock 2009 or something.  I would imagine something could be arranged for them to be taken somewhere safe for the duration of their trip.

I imagine a lot of the people that are using drugs at the con are adults.  If they're minors, then they should have a guardian with them.  While I think it is important for the con staff to ensure the environment is safe for everyone, I don't think it's their job to babysit.

(I hope people don't think I'm some anti-drug nut or something.  I don't particularly care what you do in your own home.  It's when you bring it into public and expose me to it that I have a problem.)

[EveofAbyss]

Isn't that what emergency contact info and the like is for? Of course, don't just throw them out at the second, but if someone is caught doing drugs or high or something, they should be taken somewhere by proper authorities (not necessarily THE authorities), and held while their kin or whoever comes to pick them up, if available. One offense should be enough for a revocation of con admittance/admission, though. They can stay til they come off it, if required, but I'd say their time at the con would be up after that.

[Koopa]

HAVE YOU EVER TRIED TO DEAL WITH SOMEONE HAVING A BAD TRIP? Trust me, you do not want to freak them out! It is not a crock btw. I know people that when having a bad trip, the hurt people. I mean put them in the E.R.

Besides that fact, kicking them out of the con just puts the hassle of taking care of them onto someone else. Really, kicking them out is just the coward's way of dealing with the problem. Making sure that they're safe should be our number one priority. We do that for everyone else, don't we?

[EveofAbyss]

But everyone else doesn't purposefully put themselves on the punitive side of Kumoricon's responsibility. Nowhere in the policies do they say "smoke 'em if you got 'em." It is a discouraged act, and they break Kumoricon's responsibility for providing them with a good time when they choose to break the policies.

[Rathany]

I personally think there should be a zero tolerance policy towards drugs.  And that would extend to alcohol: if you're drunk in the con before midnight, you're booted!  But that's just me. ^_^;

(I imagine there's a similar policy already in place.. but I'm not familiar with the particulars or how much it is enforced.)

It just seems too dangerous to tolerate drugs at the con.  What you do in your personal time is your choice.  But when you're at the convention surrounded by lots of kids you could potentially be placing them in danger.

I fully concur with pulling badges and being escorted out of con space for drug use.  Some drug use should also get people blacklisted.  But, anyway, yeah, if there are any flaws with our policy's it's for teh next Board to look into

I don't condone drugs but just kicking them out could have adverse effects. I don't have tolerance for it and neither does the con but kicking them out? Where would we draw the line of "some drug use"? To much caffeine is consider speed. You know?

I've never known anyone that drank too much caffeine and then thought they were being attacked by an amorphous blob.  But that's just me. ^_^;

I don't particularly like the idea of a "trip" room.  I can't imagine having a room full of people freaking out on acid, mushrooms, methamphetamine, etc. is a particularly good idea.  I understand your concern for their safety but Kumoricon isn't Woodstock 2009 or something.  I would imagine something could be arranged for them to be taken somewhere safe for the duration of their trip.

Also, if we had a 'trip room' we might become liable if the people hurt themselves.  This is similar to why we cannot provide 'quiet space' for people with mental disabilities.  It creates a liabilty for us.  If people need 'quiet space', they need to have a hotel room for it.  

[Daxe]

HAVE YOU EVER TRIED TO DEAL WITH SOMEONE HAVING A BAD TRIP? Trust me, you do not want to freak them out! It is not a crock btw. I know people that when having a bad trip, the hurt people. I mean put them in the E.R.

Besides that fact, kicking them out of the con just puts the hassle of taking care of them onto someone else. Really, kicking them out is just the coward's way of dealing with the problem. Making sure that they're safe should be our number one priority. We do that for everyone else, don't we?

I agree, Safety is job #1. After that, I dunno. Calling the emergency contact is probably a good way to go. Have them come pick them up. Yes its passing off the problem to someone else, but that someone else is going to be a friend or family that is (hopefully) going to want to help them. I do think that certain drugs warrent being blacklisted. If you are doing acid, heroin or meth then they should be prevented from coming back. Weed? Maybe a slap on the wrist.

[Koopa]

Having a trip room isn't the best idea but a safe place for them is.

[reppy]

HAVE YOU EVER TRIED TO DEAL WITH SOMEONE HAVING A BAD TRIP? Trust me, you do not want to freak them out! It is not a crock btw. I know people that when having a bad trip, the hurt people. I mean put them in the E.R.

Yes.  I lived in a house where 5 out of the 6 people were meth addicts.  (I was the only person that wasn't.)  I've been around drugs quite a bit, unfortunately.

Besides that fact, kicking them out of the con just puts the hassle of taking care of them onto someone else. Really, kicking them out is just the coward's way of dealing with the problem. Making sure that they're safe should be our number one priority. We do that for everyone else, don't we?

Of course their safety is important.  The safety of all con goers is important.  However, when you bring something into the convention that has the potential to be dangerous for yourself or others then you ought to lose your privilege to attend.  Obviously, every effort should be taken to ensure that the person is well accounted for before being removed from the convention.

Can you imagine how much !@#$ Kumoricon would have to deal with if it was known that there was a "drug room" where people could come down from their trips?  Remember all the hubbub over raves a few years ago?  It would be that all over again: Kumoricon would be run out of town!

[MichaelEvans]

Maybe the key here isn't so much inherently providing space, but having space that might 'coincidently' work for it.  Perhaps a room with some soothing naptime anime and bean bags.

No Akira Teddy bear trips in sight ^.^;

[Daxe]

Maybe the key here isn't so much inherently providing space, but having space that might 'coincidently' work for it.  Perhaps a room with some soothing naptime anime and bean bags.

No Akira Teddy bear trips in sight ^.^;

I support this idea.

[Koopa]

Thank you for all the feedback. I will be able to help now with some policy's. K-con would never condone drugs but the fact of the matter is, people are going to do them. Brandon assigned me to get a some info together. You guys are very helpful. I don't think that a room for people to trip is good but the police can't arrest them either. Being high is not illegal. I have quite a few Meth addicts in my family as well. I do know how deal people that are on drugs.

[EveofAbyss]

I like that idea, because it does not encourage drug use or allow it, but it gives them a place to mellow until they are sane enough to be removed.

Still, may be a hazard having multiple skyrocketers in one place. *shrug* No easy answer.

[Koopa]

I like that idea, because it does not encourage drug use or allow it, but it gives them a place to mellow until they are sane enough to be removed.

Still, may be a hazard having multiple skyrocketers in one place. *shrug* No easy answer.

Your right, there is no easy answer. It would be easier to handle if it were illegal to be high. Then the cops could take care of it.

[Meganekko]

I'm sorry but as for the safety of those who did the drugs, they willingly did so, and thus endangered their own safety.

I don't like seeing them get hucked out, and possibly going to play in traffic or what not, but I like seeing people who were doing the right thing being harassed by people who used illegal drugs even less.

This is a family con, this is a legal con.  People pay to come here and have a good time, and if they are doing drugs they are infringing upon other con goers good time which is not right, more over they have broken the law by having possessed the drugs to do them.  There can be no tolerance, maybe if they get their act together they can come back next year when they are not an issue to other people.

As for a trip room, not cool at all.  Besides the fact that we would be run out of town, no one would host us with that.  Also its dangerous.  No matter how much drug experience somebody has, there is always the unknown of how a specific individual will react... you cannot control their trips and if something goes wrong it is then on the con.

[pepito]

While I agree whole heartedly with needing to address this issue... I am unsure that this is the right place to do it. From the standpoint of a parent of a potential con goer... or even just a potential con goer, this thread would be a huge deterent for me to support K-Con.

Perhaps the staff forum may be a better place for this topic? Or via operations@kumoricon.org

[Koopa]

I do like the idea of an extra room! But it could create a liability. Maybe if the room was called nap room? I have no clue what would make us not liable.  What if it was a nap time room for little kids and after 7 or so that room was set aside as an emergency room? Not necessarily LABELED as "The Room to Take People Who Are Having Bad Trips", but just dubbed the "Nap Time Room" and it's understood after a certain time that said room could be used for helping people come down. That way there wouldn't be a ton of liability for the staff and we could have that safety room.

[Rathany]

I do like the idea of an extra room! But it could create a liability. Maybe if the room was called nap room? I have no clue what would make us not liable.  What if it was a nap time room for little kids and after 7 or so that room was set aside as an emergency room? Not necessarily LABELED as "The Room to Take People Who Are Having Bad Trips", but just dubbed the "Nap Time Room" and it's understood after a certain time that said room could be used for helping people come down. That way there wouldn't be a ton of liability for the staff and we could have that safety room.

Problem is, if word got out that we had such a thing it might be seen as us being kind of permissive and might make people feel that they can take risks with drugs, because we will take care of them. 

[Koopa]

I'm sorry but as for the safety of those who did the drugs, they willingly did so, and thus endangered their own safety.

I don't like seeing them get hucked out, and possibly going to play in traffic or what not, but I like seeing people who were doing the right thing being harassed by people who used illegal drugs even less.

This is a family con, this is a legal con.  People pay to come here and have a good time, and if they are doing drugs they are infringing upon other con goers good time which is not right, more over they have broken the law by having possessed the drugs to do them.  There can be no tolerance, maybe if they get their act together they can come back next year when they are not an issue to other people.

As for a trip room, not cool at all.  Besides the fact that we would be run out of town, no one would host us with that.  Also its dangerous.  No matter how much drug experience somebody has, there is always the unknown of how a specific individual will react... you cannot control their trips and if something goes wrong it is then on the con.

Your right, you can not control there trips. The thing is, we provide safety to ALL con-goers. Trying to find them while possessing the drug is the hard part. They can be high and its NOT ILLEGAL! Just having the drugs on you is. And of course having a "trip-room" is not a good idea. Kicking them out and having them play in traffic is not a good idea either. Even if the person is at a pannel or something and there high. Its still on the con. Do you have any ideas?

[Animeman73]

I'm sorry but again I must reiterate that I look on drug use with contempt. These people are in my opinion trying to run away from their problems and have done it so much they've become a menace to others and themselves. I say you don't run away from your problems through drugs, you stand up and face those problems head on. And if you need help ask for it. Drugs are not only bad for the body but the mind and spirit. And I believe K-con having a zero tolerance policy towards illegal drugs is a good thing.

[Koopa]

I do like the idea of an extra room! But it could create a liability. Maybe if the room was called nap room? I have no clue what would make us not liable.  What if it was a nap time room for little kids and after 7 or so that room was set aside as an emergency room? Not necessarily LABELED as "The Room to Take People Who Are Having Bad Trips", but just dubbed the "Nap Time Room" and it's understood after a certain time that said room could be used for helping people come down. That way there wouldn't be a ton of liability for the staff and we could have that safety room.

Problem is, if word got out that we had such a thing it might be seen as us being kind of permissive and might make people feel that they can take risks with drugs, because we will take care of them. 

That's true. Its not our job to take care of them but it is our job to make sure every one is safe. This is a very hard subject to address. Thank you for your input by the way.

[Koopa]

I'm sorry but again I must reiterate that I look on drug use with contempt. These people are in my opinion trying to run away from their problems and have done it so much they've become a menace to others and themselves. I say you don't run away from your problems through drugs, you stand up and face those problems head on. And if you need help ask for it. Drugs are not only bad for the body but the mind and spirit. And I believe K-con having a zero tolerance policy towards illegal drugs is a good thing.

Look, this is not for preaching. That may be your opinion but there are cultures out there that do condone drugs. This forum is for help on dealing with the problem not telling people that you don't like drugs 

[Meganekko]

Sadly there really isn't anything we can do about their safety after they have endangered it by taking the illegal substances.

The con rules should read that should someone be caught high, they are out.  No exceptions for certain drugs and what not.  If you are high, you cease to be a con goer and need to get out.

Since they don't read like that or this wouldn't be an issue I'm going to bring it up as a possible change in by-laws/code of conduct.

I feel sad that we have to have this conversation, I wish this wasn't an issue at our con.  I hate to see drugged up kids kicked out where they could pose a threat to others or themselves.

The only other option is that we call their emergency contact numbers and report them as being in danger since they have taken drugs during our con and need to be picked up... either way, they need to get out.

[Animeman73]

Sorry didn't mean to come off sounding too preachy, my bad. But actually I think the idea of off duty cops or better still plain clothing cops working the convention might not be such a bad idea. I've watched enough episodes of COPS to know they deal with that kind of (Cough, cough ahem) nonsense all the time. It's just a thought. By the way MegaNekko I'm in complete agreement with you.

[Himura Kenshin]

Personally I don't think isolation is a good idea if that were to be the only thing done. There needs to be some form of punishment for doing drugs in the first place. If the isolation thing is used then emergency contacts should be notified right away when the person is isolated, and then a decision should be made on what to do. What should happen is they should be sent home, but they should NOT be kicked out on the street, as someone who is intoxicated shouldn't be driving anyway or really should not be left alone, as something might happen to them, or someone else. Have them picked up and taken home, or call an ambulance and let their family pick them up from the hospital - or the cops, whichever comes first. But really there should be no tolerance for this. These people that do things like this need help, yes, but should not be allowed to stay and endanger other con goers or themselves.
Anyway that's really all I have to say on it, other than I find it appalling that there even was drugs at kumoricon in the first place...(had my parents known this I would not have been allowed to go at all due to their overprotectiveness of me).

[Koopa]

But that's the thing. To much caffeine IS speed. I know people that have had a od off of it. That is a drug and would you kick somebody out if you saw that? What about alcohol? Look, you really can't kick them out when there high because IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO BE HIGH! That's the hard thing about it. What about morning glory seeds? Those are legal. But its a mild form of acid.

[reppy]

Unfortunately, drugs are everywhere.  As much as we like to think of Kumoricon as our safe little bubble place where we can be silly and dress up, it doesn't spare us from some of the realities of the world we might not like to think about.

[Koopa]

Most of the people that were high though wern't kids though. Drugs are every where. Even at k-con.

[Neko_Chan]

Uumm to all those talking about the alcohol use...
Have you EVER been in the VIP room of Kumoricon?
Honestly, largest collection of booze I've ever seen outside of a bar.

I've had to deal with staff members in the past not being there when I needed them because they were hungover!

To a lot of people, Kumorcon is "get-drunk-and-stand-in-a-line-con".

You will never stop people from doing drugs or drinking at Kumoricon, or anywhere. You betcha some people get out of hand, and they have been escorted out, I've seen it done every year.

BAWWWW at all the people who say drugs are bad. Who the hell cares. Don't like drugs? DONT DO THEM.
I can tell you eating ramen, pocky and ramune for four days straight isn't good for you or being 400 pounds isn't good for you either.

[AllyKat]

See, this is exactly what freaks me out about these kinds of things....

I am already a very paranoid, spastic, excited and a bit cooky eclectic person.
I act like a crazy drunk/high person most of the time when I'm just excited
or having fun... Why would I wanna take drugs?

My friend freaked me out by telling me he thought he saw someone slipping
stuff into the water (I am imagining it wasn't true cause he kept drinking it
and he never got wierd) but I couldn't drink any of the water anymore
cause I was too paranoid that I would die of GHB or something...

Ally: A rave is just bright lights and drugs right?"

Friend: No, there's also sweat and sex!"

*sigh* I enjoyed all the music at the dance though! they played excellent songs! YAY!

~Allykat

[Meganekko]

Look, you really can't kick them out when there high because IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO BE HIGH!

Sure you can, it doesn't have to be illegal, just against con rules.

i.e.; It's not illegal to be nude in public in Portland (Naked Bike Ride anybody?), but you can't be nude at con.

[CMD Productions]

"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music."

-- Marcus Brigstocke, British Comedian

[Mitsukai Mizu Amaya]

Hmm... well, if there is any help needed in escorting out/dealing with those under the effects of drugs, I could lend a hand. I won't be staff or yoji or anything next year, but I do have quite the amount of knowledge of different drugs and what they can do to you and your system, as well as how to help calm people down on Acid and such. And no, I have never take a drug in my life except asprin, which doesn't work on me anyway so I don't take it anymore for headaches, but I had to deal with my dad and the rest of his side of the family; I've learned a few tips and tricks in dealing with him when he got into those kinds of states before he died. I'll be eighteen by next con anyway, so I can help out after hours too.

One thing... no matter where you are, ESPECIALLY at big conventions like this one(no matter how we try to deny it) be careful. This goes double for the dances and after-hours time. Never leave your drink alone and if you have to leave for a minute, take it with you or dump it. That's general common sense ^^

Also, be very, very careful if you find anyone at con under the effects of a bad Acid trip or LSD or another like substance; it happens rarely, but sometimes it can be easy to trigger a psychotic break in a person when using a drug that alters your brain in the way those do.

Another thing about the dances... if you're weirded out, get the hell out. Pupils are a tell-tale sign of drug use, as well as other things like how the person smells and such.

I agree with Himura's suggestion of punishment. If someone is found under the effects of drugs and just kept in isolation until the effects have passed, what deterrant is there to them doing it again; with possibly worse consequences? Also, I like the idea of having some kind of detox room, but it might be better to have two; one for those on the hard drugs and another for those who are just drunk or high; hell, maybe just escort theh igh and drunk ones back to their rooms. Drugs make people do things they wouldn't normally, which can lead to some very bad consequences for some.

And then there's the creepers who will take advantage of you. Again to the 'never leave your drink alone' suggestion. Even around friend's; they can't be expected to watch your drink 24/7.

Yup; there's my rant. ^^

[EveofAbyss]

The constant argument I am seeing here is: It's not illegal to be high. So what? It doesn't have to be illegal to be dangerous, hazardous, or reprehensible. Like someone else said, it isn't illegal to be naked either, but if someone showed up to the con with no clothes on, they'd be out with no argument whatsoever.

It's not about kicking them out because it's illegal. It's kicking them out because they chose to do something in violation of very obvious policies.

If a drug's use is illegal in America, don't perceive Kumoricon as some foreign embassy. It is within all the rules of the country it exists in, so don't pretend like people who do illegal drugs should be given some sort of farcical leniency, because that just doesn't exist in the con.

[doryishness]

Maybe I was too ignorant to think K-Con was a happy family-friendly place where there was rainbows, plushies and no drugs. So reading this thread appalled me.

I know many of you are going to disagree with me, but I don't think we should allow drugs. Whatsoever. If people are tripping or high, get them out of the con. I know some think it's our duty or k-con's duty to keep them "safe" but honestly, unless K-con is the dumbshit passing them out, I don't see where it's k-con's responsiblity to keep them safe from themselves in specific rooms.

These idiots are choosing to **** themselves up. Their adults (most of them) and should be treated as such, instead of little whacked out children. Kick them out of the dance hall and let them come off their high outside the con area.

Personally, I don't think it's good publicity for the con to have it known that it's tolerated that drugs are used. If I was a parent, I wouldn't let my kid go to the con, even if they can't go to the rave either way.

I know I'm probably going to get bashed for this opinion but so be it. My final point is that drugs are bad, illegal, and shouldn't be allowed at K-con.

[Mitsukai Mizu Amaya]

Eve, Doryish, I love you both. ^^

I've seen both sides of the arguement because one side of the family(my mom's and, ironically, my father after he got clean and before he was diagnosed with lung cancer) despises drugs and knows the harm they can cause yet hails medicine when used in the dosage and for the reasons it was created, and the other is... admittedly, riddled with pill-poppers who want a drug for every little thing and then tend to abuse it.

This may seem extreme, but if you allow drugs at a convention in any way, shape, or form, what's to stop people from dealing at them too? KumoriCon is a family-friendly convention, but it would only take one lawsuit from a parent who claims their kid got drugs from a congoer to severely impact the furture of the convention itself.

[oslapedo]

KCon should adopt a zero tolerance policy for drugs. Get caught with 'em or being high and you get your badge revoked, or something.

[Rathany]

Maybe I was too ignorant to think K-Con was a happy family-friendly place where there was rainbows, plushies and no drugs. So reading this thread appalled me.

I know many of you are going to disagree with me, but I don't think we should allow drugs. Whatsoever. If people are tripping or high, get them out of the con. I know some think it's our duty or k-con's duty to keep them "safe" but honestly, unless K-con is the dumbshit passing them out, I don't see where it's k-con's responsiblity to keep them safe from themselves in specific rooms.

These idiots are choosing to **** themselves up. Their adults (most of them) and should be treated as such, instead of little whacked out children. Kick them out of the dance hall and let them come off their high outside the con area.

Personally, I don't think it's good publicity for the con to have it known that it's tolerated that drugs are used. If I was a parent, I wouldn't let my kid go to the con, even if they can't go to the rave either way.

I know I'm probably going to get bashed for this opinion but so be it. My final point is that drugs are bad, illegal, and shouldn't be allowed at K-con.

Drugs are not allowed at Kcon.  What is being discussed is what to do if people bring some in illegally.  We can't ... OK, we don't want to strip search everyone at the door.  That would ...be kinda scary.  So things are going to happen.  What we are discussing is what to do if someone does drugs.  Pulling thier badge is obvious.  Most types of drug use will lead to blacklisting.  Still, when someone is altered, the first thing we need to worry about is safety for everyone.  

[Meganekko]

Seems pretty simple, give them the boot.  Better yet, hand them over to the Hilton guards.

We cannot endanger a volunteer staff.  We cannot endanger rule abiding K-con goers.
So leave them to somebody trained, and paid to deal with them.

The plain clothes cop is rather a moot point since, they cannot detain high con-goers that have no drugs or paraphenallia on them so that they can come down from the high, since as Koopa rightly stated, "It's not illegal to be high." in Portland.  Their hands would be tied, however they could be there to catch kids with drugs/paraphernalia in progress of getting high.


{edit, I got a little too fired up earlier, apologies}

[Animeman73]

Mitsukai, I have to say I'm impressed with your experiences and the way you argue this. You give me the impression of someone who's not only experienced in dealing with family memebers you also give the impression of being or having the potential for being a medical professional (Nurse, doctor, etc.)

As I pointed out I think plain clothed cops or even off duty police officers would be a good idea. At the grocery store where I work from time to time they have police officers who look like teenagers do sting operations for those stores thought to be selling alcohol to minors perhaps the police could do something more subtle for the next Kumoricon while keeping a low profile you see where I'm coming from.

[Koopa]

Guys....really....the point of this post was to see if anyone saw anything or experienced anything or HEARD anything so that next year WE CAN FIGURE OUT HOW TO PREVENT ANYTHING BAD FROM HAPPENING TO ANYONE.
 
I had to rescue a few people from having bad trips. It's going to happen regardless of what anyone else says or feels. There needs to be a way to keep the drug use to a minimum and a way to keep those who still choose to do drugs at con completely safe. I don't care if they're putting themselves in harms way by doing drugs in the first place, they still need to be able to be somewhere safe if anything goes wrong.

Please, stop with the anger and the preaching and just LISTEN. People are going to do what they're going to do. It's expected that EVERYONE is safe at K-con. Even if we have to kick people out AFTER they come down, they STILL NEED TO BE IN A SAFE ENVIRONMENT.

[Mitsukai Mizu Amaya]

Thanks for clearing that up, Rath. ^^ Well, in regards on what to do... with druggies, throwing them out and blacklisting is a must. I think calling the police and a room search, if they have a room, is a must as well. What I meant by a detox room wasn't holding them against their will or allowing it at all; if we release them to the streets, they could bother others as well, and maybe even congoers hanging out around the con area. They will be a danger to themselves and other people. I've seen it happen. Hell, in my opinion, best thing to do is hand them over to the cops or hotel security.

There should also be somewhere for drunks to go to as well, like maybe have a yoji or someone to help escort them to their room.

Thanks you, animeman; and yeah, I've experienced quite a bit over the years (someone on my dad's side of the family had the gall to steal his prescription painkillers before hospice even got his body out of our house) and you sort of hit the nail on the head with that one; I plan to get a doctorate in forensic psychology and possibly minor in nursing, I haven't decided yet. ^^ I agree with the plain clothes cops idea as well, if you see a cop you would be far more liekly to hide the drugs or be sneaky about using them then if you saw someone dressed normally. (I justh ad a picture of a cop dressed as Leon from RE)

[EveofAbyss]

I'd really say the only thing to do other than booting people is holding them somewhere while calling their emergency contact to pick them up. I could see a room being reserved for this: not a crash room, or a come down off your high room, but a room where perhaps several staff members or even a security member would wait with the person until they are able to leave (with their contact or sober enough to do so alone).

[Meganekko]

I agree with Eve but even still, who is gonna staff that?

[Rathany]

Personally, I don't think it's good publicity for the con to have it known that it's tolerated that drugs are used.

I think some of the confusion over this comes from not knowing who is speaking just what they think, and who represents Kumoricon staff and/or upper management.  Those of us who are staff have it written above our icons.  Please note things like this before thinking people are speaking on behalf of Kumoricon.

Drugs are not allowed.  

(I hate pulling 'I am a Director', but yeah ...  I am a Director.  Known drug use at con leads to blacklisting.  Blacklisting means you cannot attend Kumoricon.  No matter what random people may say, illegal drug use is not allowed in any way, shape or form.)

[EveofAbyss]

Thank you, Rathany. It's good to have that aspect cleared up once and for all. I think a lot of the discussion hinged on that.

[Mitsukai Mizu Amaya]

I agree, again thanks Rathany. I agree with Eve once more; at least keep them somewhere until an emergency contact or police/whoever arrives for them. As for who could staff it... I won't be staff, but I would be glad to help out a bit durign the con if it is needed for something like this.

[EveofAbyss]

Yes, I would be glad to help out in this way if the need arises.

[Darknight2433]

I know that someone was selling/looking for drugs to the left of the front door to the convention, by all the smoking people~

[Mitsukai Mizu Amaya]

... seriously? Wow... and that's where quite a few of us hung out...

[Darknight2433]

Yep. In front of where that little group was chilling on the chair thingy.

[Rathany]

I know that someone was selling/looking for drugs to the left of the front door to the convention, by all the smoking people~

Next time you see that, could you inform Kcon or hotel staff?  Whoever you see first?  We do not want things like this happening.  

[doryishness]

Ahh, I apologize if I seemed a little....whatever, I didn't mean to come off that way. It's just that I've been around people who get high all the time and trip out and do freaky things (most of the time dangerous to themselves or other people) and it's something I'm kinda uptight about.

I think we're all on the same page here - drugs are bad and not allowed at k-con.

to sorta explain my point again, and EveofAbyss said more along the lines of what I was thinking. Don't give them a room to babysit them while their strung out, but at least have a room away from people to hold them while their getting their badge revoked and waiting for somebody to pick them up.


It sorta seemed in the earlier posts that I read that some people were for allowing drugs at k-con and that's what got my hackles up. But if we're all against that, then I agree with everyone's ideas. Having a plainsclothes cop to monitor the situation and take out the people that are whacked out. Having a room to hold them while their getting picked up. Strip searches are a little extreme, but a quick search of pockets to see if you're holding any bad drugs.

And thank you Rathany, like EveofAbyss said, it help clears it up about who's representing kumoricon. Before knowing who was who, I was getting the feeling that drugs were being tolerated by staff, but now I get that they aren't. Also, I didn't look up the yoji word and I was trying to figure out what that meant.


Again, I apologize if I came off in anyway other then pleasntly stating my opinon.

[Darknight2433]

I know that someone was selling/looking for drugs to the left of the front door to the convention, by all the smoking people~

Next time you see that, could you inform Kcon or hotel staff?  Whoever you see first?  We do not want things like this happening.  

Okie dokie, I guess. But the rule I found to be safest is not messing with in the affairs of drugs, for the better good or not~

[Mitsukai Mizu Amaya]

I didn't mean strip searching; I meant searching their room at the hotel, if they have one. Preferably by the police.

[Rathany]

Ahh, I apologize if I seemed a little....whatever, I didn't mean to come off that way. It's just that I've been around people who get high all the time and trip out and do freaky things (most of the time dangerous to themselves or other people) and it's something I'm kinda uptight about.

I think we're all on the same page here - drugs are bad and not allowed at k-con.

to sorta explain my point again, and EveofAbyss said more along the lines of what I was thinking. Don't give them a room to babysit them while their strung out, but at least have a room away from people to hold them while their getting their badge revoked and waiting for somebody to pick them up.


It sorta seemed in the earlier posts that I read that some people were for allowing drugs at k-con and that's what got my hackles up. But if we're all against that, then I agree with everyone's ideas. Having a plainsclothes cop to monitor the situation and take out the people that are whacked out. Having a room to hold them while their getting picked up. Strip searches are a little extreme, but a quick search of pockets to see if you're holding any bad drugs.

And thank you Rathany, like EveofAbyss said, it help clears it up about who's representing kumoricon. Before knowing who was who, I was getting the feeling that drugs were being tolerated by staff, but now I get that they aren't. Also, I didn't look up the yoji word and I was trying to figure out what that meant.


Again, I apologize if I came off in anyway other then pleasntly stating my opinon.

No problem   I am just glad that I could clear things up.  If some future Board of Kcon was being all permissive I'd be .... rather upset.  So, I understand very much why you'd be upset if you thought we were being permissive in any way. 

[Meganekko]

Yes, thank you Rathany!

The beginning of this seemed to make it out as though drugs were somewhat permissible...  drawing lines what was hard drugs, what was not, when to call cops, Detox Room....

As it stands, the problem seems to be that that as Kumoricon is concerned for the safety of all its con goers, what to do with kids who are found high so that they do not pose a threat to themselves and other con goers.

I believe it was you who said we cannot have a quiet room for the mentally disabled, due to liability should something occur that causes a person to harm Kumoricon Staff, Other Con-Goers, and the person them selves. It seems that the same would apply to individuals caught under the influence of drugs.

So this would lead me to believe that we need either a few plain clothes cops/security guards to escort them to somewhere safe outside of the conspace, or that they are simply to be turned out, and should they try to re-enter the cops should then be called to remove them.  I'm sure Altonimbus (Kumoricon's parent company) is not going to be okay with individuals caught under the influence of drugs being held by Kumoricon staff, especially Yojimbo (volunteers) while an emergency contact is reached.

[Rathany]

Yes, thank you Rathany!

The beginning of this seemed to make it out as though drugs were somewhat permissible...  drawing lines what was hard drugs, what was not, when to call cops, Detox Room....

Part of it is that those of us who are directors were all helping with tear-down all Tuesday, and we are all very tired.  Lots of other staffers helped, too.  Yeah, sorry, we've been a bit AFK

[Meganekko]

Part of it is that those of us who are directors were all helping with tear-down all Tuesday, and we are all very tired.  Lots of other staffers helped, too.  Yeah, sorry, we've been a bit AFK

Completely understandable... its an interesting and touchy subject so we all got a little too fired up while going on too little info.

[Mitsukai Mizu Amaya]

If I didn't have school Wednesday, I would have helped out. xD Oh well, there's always next year!

[Animeman73]

Rathany I too must again offer up a big 'My bad' for seeming rather preachy. It's just I had a relative who was an alcholic and had problems. And based on what I've seen of what drugs can do I shirk to think about what might happen to anyone else. Again my apologies.

Although I think the idea of having a time out room to send those high on drugs to until the cops arrive might not hurt. The police are always happy when the public is willing toi work with them to keep things sfe.

[Rathany]

Rathany I too must again offer up a big 'My bad' for seeming rather preachy. It's just I had a relative who was an alcholic and had problems. And based on what I've seen of what drugs can do I shirk to think about what might happen to anyone else. Again my apologies.

Although I think the idea of having a time out room to send those high on drugs to until the cops arrive might not hurt. The police are always happy when the public is willing toi work with them to keep things sfe.

It's all good.  Like I said, most of us are hiding in bed recovering

We really can't have a 'detox room' due to legal issues and implications of permissiveness.  I would like, however, to point out that if we have a situation quiet space can be arranged.  In addition to a few other resourses, we have a 'Sick Bay' for injured staff/attendees and a Con Suite which is where staff go to relax.  However, once a situation is contained, it's badge pull and blacklist time.  Though, really, if someone is freaking out, likely the best thing to do is for us to call the cops/ambulance and let them deal.  It frees us from liability and reduces danger to staff and attendees.  In addition to our policies, we might need to look at Standard Operating Proceedures for this sort of thing so staff know how to respond. 

We deal with this sort of problem very rarely, so we might not be as prepared as we should be.  Drug use (and also smoking) tends to be much, much lower amoung our attendees than the general population.  Anime is wierd enough without drugs

[Mitsukai Mizu Amaya]

Agreed. xD

[Koopa]

Look, you really can't kick them out when there high because IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO BE HIGH!

Sure you can, it doesn't have to be illegal, just against con rules.

i.e.; It's not illegal to be nude in public in Portland (Naked Bike Ride anybody?), but you can't be nude at con.

You can't kick them out if there nude as well. You just have to tell them to cover up. I know the con rules. I'm a Yojimbo.

[Meganekko]

@Koopa

It seems like we've already got this covered pretty well.  We're just playing semantics at this point.

We really can't have a 'detox room' due to legal issues and implications of permissiveness.  I would like, however, to point out that if we have a situation quiet space can be arranged.  In addition to a few other resourses, we have a 'Sick Bay' for injured staff/attendees and a Con Suite which is where staff go to relax.  However, once a situation is contained, it's badge pull and blacklist time.  Though, really, if someone is freaking out, likely the best thing to do is for us to call the cops/ambulance and let them deal.  It frees us from liability and reduces danger to staff and attendees.  In addition to our policies, we might need to look at Standard Operating Proceedures for this sort of thing so staff know how to respond. 

We deal with this sort of problem very rarely, so we might not be as prepared as we should be.  Drug use (and also smoking) tends to be much, much lower amoung our attendees than the general population.  Anime is wierd enough without drugs

[Koopa]

Thanks for clearing that up, Rath. ^^ Well, in regards on what to do... with druggies, throwing them out and blacklisting is a must. I think calling the police and a room search, if they have a room, is a must as well. What I meant by a detox room wasn't holding them against their will or allowing it at all; if we release them to the streets, they could bother others as well, and maybe even congoers hanging out around the con area. They will be a danger to themselves and other people. I've seen it happen. Hell, in my opinion, best thing to do is hand them over to the cops or hotel security.

There should also be somewhere for drunks to go to as well, like maybe have a yoji or someone to help escort them to their room.

Thanks you, animeman; and yeah, I've experienced quite a bit over the years (someone on my dad's side of the family had the gall to steal his prescription painkillers before hospice even got his body out of our house) and you sort of hit the nail on the head with that one; I plan to get a doctorate in forensic psychology and possibly minor in nursing, I haven't decided yet. ^^ I agree with the plain clothes cops idea as well, if you see a cop you would be far more liekly to hide the drugs or be sneaky about using them then if you saw someone dressed normally. (I justh ad a picture of a cop dressed as Leon from RE)

Just because there high, you just can't call the cops. You really don't understand. How many times do I have to tell you all. IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO BE HIGH. So how can you call the cops when there not breaking the law? Huh? Having it is illegal. I mean on your persons. I am a Yoji and I was put in charge of this. I'm trying to get a handle on this. You can't just throw them out as well. What happens if they do something out there and then the cops ask, where were you a few moments ago? What if we told the cops that we just let them go? Then we are the responsible party. Please think before you post.

[Rathany]

Look, you really can't kick them out when there high because IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO BE HIGH!

Sure you can, it doesn't have to be illegal, just against con rules.

i.e.; It's not illegal to be nude in public in Portland (Naked Bike Ride anybody?), but you can't be nude at con.

You can't kick them out if there nude as well. You just have to tell them to cover up. I know the con rules. I'm a Yojimbo.

If anyone decides to be nude at Kcon, then yeah, they are getting kicked out.  That is not ok.  They can run around in the streets nude, but not in event space.  

 

[Koopa]

Thank you for the input. Look, if everyone would read ALL the posts before posting then you would all know that K-con does not condone drugs. What about the legal drugs that are abused? And thank you Rathy. I love your opinions. People please read all the posts before replying. I'm trying to get something together for the board. I do not want to hear what you guys think about drugs just what you think should happen to people that use them. 

[reppy]

Just because there high, you just can't call the cops. You really don't understand. How many times do I have to tell you all. IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO BE HIGH. So how can you call the cops when there not breaking the law? Huh? Having it is illegal. I mean on your persons. I am a Yoji and I was put in charge of this. I'm trying to get a handle on this. You can't just throw them out as well. What happens if they do something out there and then the cops ask, where were you a few moments ago? What if we told the cops that we just let them go? Then we are the responsible party. Please think before you post.

What if they do something inside the con?  I mean, if we're so concerned that they might harm someone or themselves outside -- what about inside the convention?  And if we're genuinely concerned about that, why can't we call the police?  From what you say, being high isn't illegal -- but certainly threatening or dangerous behavior is worthy of a call to the police.

If someone is freaking out, then maybe there needs to be an ambulance called with a trained professional that can deal with this.  Regardless of how much experience you have dealing with people that have had bad trips, it is a bad idea for the liability for this person's life to lie on YOU or the convention.  If the person refuses treatment, then they did so by their own volition (if you consider someone that's high and unable to think straight capable of making an intelligent decision about their health and well-being).  I fail to see how this could then be the convention's responsibility.

I just flat out don't like the idea of a "quiet room" or "bad trip area."  It seems like the convention is condoning the behavior.  At what point is it no longer the convention's responsibility?  If they call the person's emergency contact and failing that attempt to arrange for a trip to an emergency room and they refuse, what more can the convention do?  It's not their responsibility to babysit someone that is high.  When the person took the drugs, they understood there was a certain amount of risk involved.  It is an unfair burden to place on the convention that these people should be watched after until they are "normal" again.  Are you comfortable making decisions about someone's life that could get you sued or jailed?  You seem incredibly worried about the convention getting in trouble for booting people to the curb, but what if someone dies on your watch?

[Rathany]

Everyone, this has been talked to death.  The Board is not interested in a survey of opinions about drug use.  I am going to lock this thread soon with a final Board statement if this continues. 

[pepito]

Rathany!

Thank you so much

-P

[reppy]

Yeah, this topic has been done to death. ^_^; It's pretty much going in circles now.

[pepito]

Also For the Record....

Relating to persons under the influence of a controlled
  substance; amending ORS 475.992.
Be It Enacted by the People of the State of Oregon:
  SECTION 1. ORS 475.992 is amended to read:
  475.992. (1) Except as authorized by ORS 430.400, 475.005 to
475.285 and 475.940 to 475.995, it is unlawful for any person to
manufacture { + , + }   { - or - }  deliver { +  or be under the
influence of + } a controlled substance. Any person who violates
this subsection with respect to:
  (a) A controlled substance in Schedule I, is guilty of a Class
A felony.
  (b) A controlled substance in Schedule II, is guilty of a Class
B felony.
  (c) A controlled substance in Schedule III, is guilty of a
Class C felony.
  (d) A controlled substance in Schedule IV, is guilty of a Class
B misdemeanor.
  (e) A controlled substance in Schedule V, is guilty of a Class
C misdemeanor.
  (2) Notwithstanding the placement of marijuana in a schedule of
controlled substances under ORS 430.400, 475.005 to 475.285 and
475.940 to 475.995:
  (a) Any person who delivers marijuana for consideration is
guilty of a Class B felony.
  (b) Any person who delivers, for no consideration, less than
one avoirdupois ounce of the dried leaves, stems and flowers of
the plant Cannabis family Moraceae is guilty of a Class A
misdemeanor, except that any person who delivers, for no
consideration, less than five grams of the dried leaves, stems
and flowers of the plant Cannabis family Moraceae is guilty of a
violation, punishable by a fine of not less than $500 and not
more than $1,000. Fines collected under this paragraph shall be
forwarded to the Department of Revenue for deposit in the
Criminal Fine and Assessment Account established in ORS 137.300.

  (3) Except as authorized in ORS 430.400, 475.005 to 475.285 and
475.940 to 475.995, it is unlawful for any person to create or
deliver a counterfeit substance. Any person who violates this
subsection with respect to:
  (a) A counterfeit substance in Schedule I, is guilty of a Class
A felony.
  (b) A counterfeit substance in Schedule II, is guilty of a
Class B felony.
  (c) A counterfeit substance in Schedule III, is guilty of a
Class C felony.
  (d) A counterfeit substance in Schedule IV, is guilty of a
Class B misdemeanor.
  (e) A counterfeit substance in Schedule V, is guilty of a Class
C misdemeanor.
  (4) It is unlawful for any person knowingly or intentionally to
possess a controlled substance unless the substance was obtained
directly from, or pursuant to, a valid prescription or order of a
practitioner while acting in the course of professional practice,
or except as otherwise authorized by ORS 430.400, 475.005 to
475.285 and 475.940 to 475.995. Any person who violates this
subsection with respect to:
  (a) A controlled substance in Schedule I, is guilty of a Class
B felony.
  (b) A controlled substance in Schedule II, is guilty of a Class
C felony.
  (c) A controlled substance in Schedule III, is guilty of a
Class A misdemeanor.
  (d) A controlled substance in Schedule IV, is guilty of a Class
C misdemeanor.
  (e) A controlled substance in Schedule V, is guilty of a
violation.
  (f) Notwithstanding the placement of marijuana in a schedule of
controlled substances under ORS 430.400, 475.005 to 475.285 and
475.940 to 475.995, any person who knowingly or intentionally is
in unlawful possession of less than one avoirdupois ounce of the
dried leaves, stems and flowers of the plant Cannabis family
Moraceae is guilty of a violation, punishable by a fine of not
less than $500 and not more than $1,000. Fines collected under
this paragraph shall be forwarded to the Department of Revenue
for deposit in the Criminal Fine and Assessment Account
established under ORS 137.300.
  (5) In any prosecution under this section for manufacture,
possession or delivery of that plant of the genus Lophophora
commonly known as peyote, it is an affirmative defense that the
peyote is being used or is intended for use:
  (a) In connection with the good faith practice of a religious
belief;
  (b) As directly associated with a religious practice; and
  (c) In a manner that is not dangerous to the health of the user
or others who are in the proximity of the user.
  (6) The affirmative defense created in subsection (5) of this
section is not available to any person who has possessed or
delivered the peyote while incarcerated in a correctional
facility in this state.
                         ----------

[Mr Silmero]

Aaaannnddd thats the curtain call I think *nods head*

[Koopa]

All those are right other than being high, they changed that a while ago. I have talked to many cops. I really do thank you for pulling that info up. I will bring it to the board. THANK YOU ALL FOR THE INPUT! I will bring this to the next meeting. You all have been a great help!

[Rathany]

Yeah, it looks like others agree that we want this dead.

Drugs = Bad, stupid, and will get you kicked out.  We also will not be shy about calling cops.