This year's convention is terrible... (Ideas to make it better in years to come?

[gladimus]

I'm sorry.. I've loved the past 3 years of kumoricon, even last years disaster of crowding. But this 4th year for me takes the cake on the worst convention I've ever attended. It's 10x as crowded as last year, and last year people complained about crowding, so why is it WORSE this year? Do the people in charge even pay attention? This thing is all over the place, there are lines galore, people shoving and shouting so much that we're being rushed to god knows where (I was rushed into a line with no explanation when I was simply trying to get back to the lobby) and I've only been able to take five.. FIVE pictures without being shoved, shouted at to move, or even just in general because picture taking is nearly impossible in the cramped crowd. And it's raining, to boot, so no one wants to be outside. It would be a little less cramped if the weather was nice but.. Nope. We got 3 full days of rain coming up. Isn't that just great?

This convention was the first kumoricon for my boyfriend, and he hates it. We planned this out for so long to go together because he's not from around here, and we were so excited to go together for the first time.. and this is what I get to introduce him to. I'm ashamed. I really am. Newcomers will probably never come back, that's for sure.

I'm home right now and changing costumes so I can at least move around there better, but at the end of the con I'm, going to write up a nice long review of the whole thing.



Edit: It seems this topic has gone pretty far, so I changed the title a bit.
Please keep calm everyone, this is to share your experiences and opinions on this year's con. And if you have any ideas on how to make it better next year or years to come, please do so. Kumoricon can't be left with such a sour taste, let's all try to sweeten it up!

so far issues that have come up are-

Hotel Staff
K-con Staff
Organization
Lines
Location
Hotel
Out of control minors
Creepy people in downtown portland
Getting lost looking for panels, events, etc
Lack of entertainment (not enough panels, etc)


Suggestions? Post them. 

So far there have been suggestions of-
-a new location
-better communication (between k-con staff, hotel staff, attendees, etc)
-better planning
-signs to help directional issues
-splitting up events more evenly in the two buildings
-being clear that there are two buildings in use and which is holding what events
-being escorted by k-con staff to the max line, or other hotel late at night to feel safer
-Clearer rules on conduct during the con
 

[pyronine]

Seriously? Granted it is crowded, but only in the main lobby. Now that the exhibit hall is open, it has relieved some of the congestion. Last year was extremly crowded it was 1000 over the limit. this year they are tracking attendance better, and stopped it before they got overcrowded. As for being rushed around, if you hang out near the registration line, you may get moved around, do what i do. Ignore them, then when they get up to you and personally tell you to move tell them you are not in that line and are just trying to get by. Stand up for yourself, you have to do this at cons or everyone will push you around. There was an issue this morning, K-con staff had the lines in control but the hotel staff (who have ultimate say on everything) kept moving the lines and getting them mixed together. As for the Pics, i have taken 630 photos between 7 AM and Noon. All i have done is step out of the way of lines, or avoid crowded areas. the best place to get photos is on the ramp to the exhibit hall. just about everyone will go through there at least once a day.

[gladimus]

Actually the lobby was the only place NOT packed, I could move around there. Everywhere else it was hard to even get breathing space. There was a woman there who was getting very upset because she had some health issues, it was her first kumoricon, and she couldn't rest inside because it was too hot, and outside she kept getting told to move if she sat anywhere with shelter. This is no excuse for a convention, there shouldn't need to be irritation, lost con goers, mass confusion of where things are, etc. As I've said, I've attended previous k-cons for 4 years now, and I've been to Anime Expo and Anime North. These were all organized a ton better than this event right now. I'm getting so on edge hearing shouts of MOVE every direction I take. Sometimes people CAN'T move, we're all stuck and trying to go as fast as we can. Maybe it was bad because it was morning, but the floors are very cramped with little moving space. Last year was crowded, but I was at least able to get around quickly and take pictures freely without having to fish someone out of a mass of people.

Yeah, I could speak up and say I'm going elsewhere. And I did. And I got to said place, only to be yelled at to move again because of another massive hold up of people.
But people shouldn't need to speak up like this, before it was easier to get around and find everything and enjoy walking through the building just to take pictures, but it's a big hassle right now. I hope that things will settle down and it wont be so crowded as the con goes on, but so far I'm very discouraged to do very much, and so are a lot of new k-con goers I met. I heard a lot of mumbling of 'I hate this' 'This is ridiculous' 'I can't move' 'Where am I?' 'First they tell me go this way then they say that way'. It's not just me having the problem, there are a lot of stressed con goers. This was poorly planned and I hope next year they organize better and find a building with a little more free space both indoors and outdoors. 2 years ago was great, except the location was hard to get to, but if they could find a place like that in portland then it would be a wonderful con.

I'm trying my best to enjoy, and trying even harder to convince my currently peeved boyfriend that it will get better. He's been to a convention with over 20,000 people attending and even it is more organized than this little convention this year. I want him to have a good view on kumoricon, but this year it's going very poorly...

It's partially the fault of the k-con staff who put it here of all places, but the hotel staff are DEFINITELY one of the largest issues. They keep shouting and directing people in odd places, rather than saying "Go this way to the exibit hall!" they were just saying "MOVE THIS WAY, GO THIS WAY, LINE UP!" and I had to turn and say "Um, for what? I'm just trying to get upstairs." THEN they told me to go the other way. But the forceful way they keep speaking is really getting on my nerves.

[pyronine]

You are right, they should mark which way to go ahead of time, make entrances more accessable for everyone, and have it set up before the con. I was here Fri morning and they were just setting up for the con. Larger cons and cons that have been around for many years have worked the kinks out. K-con should have started setting up on Thur to get everything set right. Part of K-cons problem is they are 90% volunteer, and rely on these volunteers to do the grunt work. However, we need to take into consideration that almost all of the k-con staff did not sleep at all fri night. some of them have been awake since fri morning.


Hopefully next year will be better as it will be here again and possibly again in 2011. so by then they should have learned from their mistakes.

[Rai180990648]

I know what you're talking about. My family and I went today. Before the opening ceremony, things were fine. After that....all hell broke loose. When we went out of the ballroom, there was a sea of people there and mom, dad, sis and I had to stop at an open area against the wall to wait for the ones that were a few people behind us. My dad told us that he almost had an anxiety attack. The hotel people ordering us to move along when we just stopped for a minute to get ourselves together didn't help much either (Don't worry, Dad's alright )

Don't even get me started on the line to the Exhibitor's Hall. Waiting in the rain, in a t-shirt, with little to no umbrella....it was the worst. After we bought what we wanted in the Exhibitor's Hall, we went back to our house.

It's been ok so far....but it's definately not as fun as I thought it was going to be.

[pyronine]

It's been ok so far....but it's definately not as fun as I thought it was going to be.

I am beginning to agree with you, it is not as fun as i thought, i guess thats why i have been hanging outside all day or in the driveway to the exhibition hall taking pictures of everyone. I have had more fun doing that than anything else.

Hopefully tonight will be better after the curfew. 

[Rai180990648]

It's been ok so far....but it's definately not as fun as I thought it was going to be.

I am beginning to agree with you, it is not as fun as i thought, i guess thats why i have been hanging outside all day or in the driveway to the exhibition hall taking pictures of everyone. I have had more fun doing that than anything else.

Hopefully tonight will be better after the curfew. 

We're going back tomorrow with one of my sister's friends. I'm hoping that it'll be a little less hetic tomorrow....

[The_Geek]

The people I went with hated the crowding and the lines, where as I just see it as another part of the convention. The staff handled it really well too; they made sure to prevent overcrowding in a bunch of places. The maid staff was really wonderful with helping out with questions, and the registration got their job done quickly. Will call didn't have to wait as much as I thought. The people I went with definitely aren't coming again though, but that may be due to the fact that they don't even like anime.

You really can't look into past experiences for anything, because you'll just compare it. 

[pyronine]

I talked to a few of the officials this evening. Apparently the attendance today hit 6000. last year's total attendance over all 3 (official) days was 4500. They had to shut down registration in the early afternoon.

[wolfy2491]

Yeah, I agree that it was a bad choice of the hotel. The staff are just being really rude. Like last year, the staff mostly left us alone unless we were being rambunctious. It was my brothers first convention, and he didn't like it nearly as much as I thought he would. I really don't want the con to be at the same hotel next year...

Although, I thought they did a good job keeping the vendors hall under control. The past few years the vendors hall has been really crowded. So I'll give them that.

But people have been yelled at, kicked out, and physically shoved. I don't personally think that's right. I mean, most of us are teenagers.

[gladimus]

Sheesh. I went back again and it wasn't as bad, but there really isn't much to do until the later hours. But that's because the better stuff is tomorrow, it's not too much better though. A lot of the panels look pretty unappealing to me. Oh well XD

And there's no room for glomp circle D:

[Blue Leader]

While I do agree that it is/was crowded (but I expected that), I personally haven't seen or experienced any pushing, shoving, fighting, shouting (well, shouting that isn't expected), or anything else like that. I thought that it's been a pretty good con overall...

[GwarNekoChan]

<sup>To be honest, I simply agree with this.... I went upstairs to call my mom, 2 minutes later, There's a big crowded line, saying that "Downstairs is It's at it's max capacity." But I was really in a hurry to go back downstairs because I was with a group of people. There was another group that left her bag downstairs, which had her money, and other valuable items, and they still wouldnt let her through. I think the Hotel staff is being a little rude... They think we know where we are going when we don't. I honestly never have been there, so I got lost. I just think they could have been nicer, even to the little kids. Some kids were walking up the ramp and didnt even know what was going on, and I just hear. "WHAT ARE YOU DOING!? GET BACK DOWN THERE. MOVE!!!" I just thought it was disrepectful. The Kumoricon staff was also telling us to move to the walls to clear the way, I didn't mind that, I just wanted to know why. O:

Aside from that, It really was crowded. I think that hotel was a bad place to choose.</sup> 

[pyronine]

The Kumoricon staff was also telling us to move to the walls to clear the way, I didn't mind that, I just wanted to know why. O:

It is because of fire code. isles, walkways, doorways, and sidewalks can not be blocked in case of an emergency. would you rather have the police enforcing this or the con staff?

[Xixecal]

The location honestly seems like a very weird choice to me. Kumoricon is simply too big to fit efficiently in the space - I mean, I have to wonder how many more people would be attending the panels if they weren't in a second building, just by itself...

[Man of the Public]

I agree it could have been handled better but as soon as the register line was closed it was smooth sailing from there. I'm sure tomorrow will be much better as the staff and hotel will have gotten used to the hotel and con guests respectively.

Plus hanging out in the Executive Tower where the Panels are being held it was much less crowded.

[Yugure]

Love the location, but not the hotel.  There really isn't enough open space in the lobby areas where people hang out particularly on a rainy day like today was and very prone to clogging up.  The ups and downs of the hotel really isn't conductive to smooth transitions from one area to another (I was wearing a short costume, I can't imagine how it was for some of the ladies with full length dresses to use those narrow escalators).  The elevators were packed.  The staff was quite pushy in situations where they didn't need to be.  

[gladimus]

All the previous years have had nice open spaces to go out and relax. Last year there was that nice big park and courtyard area for people to have photoshoots, games, or just a place to sit and relax. The building was a bit crowded, but after today, that crowdedness seemed NICE almost. And if you felt crowded, outdoors was available with a lot of space. The problem here was obviously the crowding, but there was at least places to go to get away from it easily.

The year previous to that also had a park off to the side for people to relax and play games, but the location was a little inconvenient and the building itself was so wide spread in there that panels were kind of hard to find. But again, open space!

Even before that at the red lion there was a courtyard and plenty of places to move around, but it was also in a slightly inconvenient area for trimet users.

This year... Is inconvenient for the disabled, has no real open space areas to go to since it's surrounded by buildings, no courtyards, and all the sheltered outside areas are in front of doorways so everyone has to stand out in the rain to get any space. And even that little space on the sidewalk is limited and unpleasant. The rain and lack of space kept most people inside, and the multitude of people made it even worse. It got too hot, too crowded, too hectic, and made me feel trapped a lot of the time and on edge. I missed a few panels because the crowding took me the amount of time the panel lasted to just GET to where it was.

I think after 3 it calmed down finally because I'm sure some people got fed up and went home, others went to go eat and relax elsewhere, people were settling in to panels and the AMV contest, and those who just wanted to go to the dealers room were able to. I was able to stay in a steady flow of people after that time, it was still a bit crowded, but no longer overwhelming. But the hotel staff were still being a bit loud and bossy of where to go in some areas, and they still never said for what. They just kept saying "Go to the stairs" "go down there" "you have to go this way", which leaves very confusing messages to newcomers and long time con-goers alike. And the lack of signs was pretty bad too, I only saw a few, and that was for pre-register, which was placed in such a weird place... I think the years before there were always signs with arrows pointing here and there saying what things were in that direction, like panel 1-4, movie viewing, ballroom, etc. And that was nice. It's rather difficult for someone in a hot sweaty costume in a big crowd of people possibly carrying bags and props to stop what they're doing, dig around for their little guide book, and look over the map to pinpoint a location.

This con was more inconvenience than anything else, really.

But I do agree the dealer's room was done VERY nicely, I was actually shocked to not be bumped or crowded or even struggling to get past people in there for once. Even the big conventions have dealer room issues, but this was a very nice change! It seems the dealer's room and con traffic changed places though. -___-;;

[Xixecal]

Actually, my main complainy so far as a first-time con goer - every event I've gone to so far has started anywhere from fifteen minutes to an hour and a half (!) late. Needless to say this messes with any attempted scheduling quite a lot.

[gladimus]

Oh yes, that too!! It's because of the crowding I think, the people in charge of the panels were late, weren't able to set up in time because of it, etc.
I went to a panel thinking I would find my friend there, it should have been 15 minutes in and the staff person waiting outside the panel room didn't even know why people were lining up for the panel. So no one knew what was even going on... I must say this has been very disorganized.. It sucks, because it does make a con feel like a bad experience for newcomers, or even regular congoers having a first go at kumoricon. Those people are more than likely not impressed and might not come back. Mistakes like that aren't good at all...

[catboy-trades]

Oh yes, that too!! It's because of the crowding I think, the people in charge of the panels were late, weren't able to set up in time because of it, etc.
I went to a panel thinking I would find my friend there, it should have been 15 minutes in and the staff person waiting outside the panel room didn't even know why people were lining up for the panel. So no one knew what was even going on... I must say this has been very disorganized.. It sucks, because it does make a con feel like a bad experience for newcomers, or even regular congoers having a first go at kumoricon. Those people are more than likely not impressed and might not come back. Mistakes like that aren't good at all...

When I was late starting my panels it was because I had to walk up the 10 levels to my room... grab my stuff then walk down 10 floors to the panel room... I actually was able to get an elevator to stop for me and I felt great cause they had room for me... but I was pushed aside and two giggling girls got on instead... I had been waiting for 30 min and these girls just rushed right on. 

after that I have found that using the stairs is easier... however there is no security there... and I feel that would be the best place for someone to get hurt or mugged.

[Kios]

Its just slightly crazy the amount of chaos going on... I'm barely able to get anywhere I need to, and my Vivi costume got damaged in the crowds being pushed around by security... I was tempted not to come tomorrow, but I'm meeting a friend of mine for the first time and she means a lot to me so...

But, if Kumoricon is at this place NEXT year... I'm not going. I'll save my money for Sakura-con or something...
Overall, this being my FIRST convention ever... Not impressed...

[bou12345318]

I just thought it was impossible find out where certain panels are. The maps were confusing and there were no signs to tell us where to go. What even sucked more was some of the staff said I couldnt go to the bottem floor for the Ouran tea party until I got 2-3 other staff to tell him where I was going. Also after waiting for a hour for the RAVE and reaching the front entrence we were told that the age limit was changed from all ages to 18+.

[pyronine]

Also after waiting for a hour for the RAVE and reaching the front entrence we were told that the age limit was changed from all ages to 18+.

Actually it was never all ages, if you look at the time slot, it is / was scheduled after the 12:00 curfew. Even if it was open to all ages, you would not had been in their long. Security would have had to remove anyone underage at midnight if not before. This would be impossible to do with the rave going on. would you want security to stop the rave just before midnight and spend awhile, with the lights on, to go through and check everyone's ID? Personally I wouldnt.

Child: 12 and under – Can attend the convention except during convention curfew between midnight and 6:00 AM and must be accompanied at all times by a parent or legal guardian paid attendee

Minor: 13-17 – Can attend the convention except during convention curfew between midnight and 6:00 AM and must have a Parental Permission Form or proof of legal emancipation on file by check-in.

[bou12345318]

Also after waiting for a hour for the RAVE and reaching the front entrence we were told that the age limit was changed from all ages to 18+.

Actually it was never all ages, if you look at the time slot, it is / was scheduled after the 12:00 curfew. Even if it was open to all ages, you would not had been in their long. Security would have had to remove anyone underage at midnight if not before. This would be impossible to do with the rave going on. would you want security to stop the rave just before midnight and spend awhile, with the lights on, to go through and check everyone's ID? Personally I wouldnt.

Child: 12 and under – Can attend the convention except during convention curfew between midnight and 6:00 AM and must be accompanied at all times by a parent or legal guardian paid attendee

Minor: 13-17 – Can attend the convention except during convention curfew between midnight and 6:00 AM and must have a Parental Permission Form or proof of legal emancipation on file by check-in.

Yes but we were told the RAVE was for all ages 13+ and, it did not say 18+ in our booklet.

[gladimus]

Is it just me or does it feel like there's not as much to do this year? All the somewhat interesting panels are kind of early and after noon they look less and less interesting... And I havn't seen one game of Glomp Spin the Ramune Bottle or Red Rover. Of course that's because there's nowhere to do it... I really hope they choose a place with a park area on the side like the other ones, those gave everyone breathing space, a place for photoshoots, a place to relax, play games, and record videos. Oh and have RPG fights. It's like there's no space to do any of that anymore! ; x;
I love you, Kumoricon, but this year our relationship seems to be faltering a little! If you need to we can have relationship counseling, or family counseling D:

XD I'm really hoping they fix these bad mistakes next year.
At least tomorrow wont be as crowded, the last day never really is.

[Blue Leader]

Actually, I started to think about it last night, and I did remember one of the Kumoricon workers being rather rude to my mother and I.
We were up on the second level above the main building and we were standing off onto the side after getting out of the Cynthia Martinez Q&A, and we were just getting ourselves together, repositioning our outfits and such, and this Kumoricon staffer comes up and goes "are you part of (something) cosplay group?", we answered no and than he just goes "than move out of the way!"
Rawr. That really wasn't called for at all.

Today, though, was even worse. I thought the staff was even worse today. The security I really didn't have much problems with (other than them not really giving clear directions and expecting you to know where you're going, but nothing too extremely rude), but the staff was to me the rudest. I don't know how many times we were told to move or get out of the way... Anyone ever heard of the word "please"?
And I can understand them getting annoyed or frustrated, sure, but those K-Con staff are volunteers... If they didn't want to do it or couldn't handle it than they shouldn't have volunteered. They knew what they were getting into.
After the Cynthia Martinez autographs this afternoon my mother and I were, again, getting ourselves together when this girl walks by-- I have to assume she was of the staff as she appeared out of no where from the autograph room, wasn't in line, and didn't have a costume-- and we were off to the side wall, with more than enough room for people to pass by. The hilt of my mother's sword had fallen a bit as we were trying to collect our things, and this girl comes by and shouts "Your sword is in the way! I have to WALK HERE!" Talk about a bitch. She couldn't have just, I don't know, walked around instead of plowing straight through?
Before we left they were getting ready for the cosplay contest, and there was a line forming outside. Some K-Con staffer comes up to everyone that was standing their previously by the side of the building and goes "Move out of here, this is for the cosplay contest"... Again, was that really needed? All that needed to be said was "Excuse me, we're going to be lining up for the cosplay contest here... Would you all mind moving away from the wall so the line can form here?" Would that have been so difficult?
I think the K-Con staff really needs to brush up on their courtesy, and they all really need to be told (before the event starts) that they need to be nice to the guests and respect everyone there... After all, we are the paying guests there. If it wasn't for us there would be no Kumoricon.

And yeah, I have to agree that there really didn't seem to be a whole lot going on. A lot of the time I found myself unsure of what to do or where to go, as nothing really sounded all that interesting. I went to a couple panels, but really those tend to get a bit boring after a while... I don't know, there could have been some other non-panel events going on, and just more going on in general.
Even looking at the schedule there are large blocks of time where there really isn't anything going on, and unless you want to go watch anime in extremely uncomfortable chairs of play video games for hours on end, there really isn't much to keep you around from the morning to the late afternoon...

[Tsuki-Ken]

Next year's con will be in the same place...
Frankly, the start of the con really confused me, and I was a little bored.
During the opening ceremony, after they said "Don't strip," it started getting so hot that I was tempted to unbutton my jacket/dress. (I only unwrapped my scarf and I had clothes on underneath, but you get my point)
Although I loved the bathrooms for their spaciousness, lines formed and people would just cut ahead when stalls opened up.
What was with the escalators? They're too skinny to have people walking side-by-side(much like the obscurely located stairwell next to the women's locker room), and they all started out turned off. Later on, some were turned on, but there were also lines going across escalators just to go down the escalators to the ballroom, etc.
Lots of people were confused by the location of events, especially the exhibitors hall; I found it by walking around the building. A location with a park would be great, especially for all the photo shoots.

[Yugure]

Is it just me or does it feel like there's not as much to do this year? All the somewhat interesting panels are kind of early and after noon they look less and less interesting... And I havn't seen one game of Glomp Spin the Ramune Bottle or Red Rover. Of course that's because there's nowhere to do it... I really hope they choose a place with a park area on the side like the other ones, those gave everyone breathing space, a place for photoshoots, a place to relax, play games, and record videos. Oh and have RPG fights. It's like there's no space to do any of that anymore! ; x;
I love you, Kumoricon, but this year our relationship seems to be faltering a little! If you need to we can have relationship counseling, or family counseling D:

XD I'm really hoping they fix these bad mistakes next year.
At least tomorrow wont be as crowded, the last day never really is.

I saw people playing that bottle game outside around 7:30 pm in pioneer place.  The weather was nasty today, standing in that line outside for the cosplay contest was not fun.  I was lucky to have an umbrella on hand but it was cold. 

[superjaz]

read thru this And it seems like a lot of complaints are about the hotel, so lets work on that, where do you all want to see the con at?        and do note we are too big for a lot of hotels And that that is prob too big for double tree, and we are too small for convention cente who would charge arm and leg and doesn't have hotels near by

[Rexyisashark]

I, personally, don't agree. I haven't had any problems so far--in fact, last year it took two hours for me to get in, and this year it took fifteen minutes. Maybe I'm just in all the right places at all the right times, but the only place I had trouble with was the elevators; one of which broke down.

Besides that, it hasn't been so bad, even if more room would be appreciated, or at least a real park nearby.

[Sarurun Kamui]

Next year's con will be in the same place...
Frankly, the start of the con really confused me, and I was a little bored.
During the opening ceremony, after they said "Don't strip," it started getting so hot that I was tempted to unbutton my jacket/dress. (I only unwrapped my scarf and I had clothes on underneath, but you get my point)
Although I loved the bathrooms for their spaciousness, lines formed and people would just cut ahead when stalls opened up.
What was with the escalators? They're too skinny to have people walking side-by-side(much like the obscurely located stairwell next to the women's locker room), and they all started out turned off. Later on, some were turned on, but there were also lines going across escalators just to go down the escalators to the ballroom, etc.
Lots of people were confused by the location of events, especially the exhibitors hall; I found it by walking around the building. A location with a park would be great, especially for all the photo shoots.

I did rather like the parking garage as the exhibitors' hall (and I can see that name confused some people as well...). Since they closed off that lower-level indoor entrance, everyone had to get there through the outside, which was pretty weird. Not nice when you're trying to get there in the rain, I bet.

The escalators take up a lot of space, too... that main floor could feel a lot more open if there were wider stairs or something. Turning them off made moving slower, though perhaps safer? o_o Not sure what was up with that. I hear the elevators had some of their own problems, too...

Personally, I think the area would be feel much more open if it just had more windows. There are plenty in the third floor rooms and such, but  the second floor doesn't really have any windows and the first floor only has the doors going outside. It also means you have to go to an upstairs room to get a view, otherwise you just look at people. (Which is fine, considering the circumstances, but... sky... fresh air... -swoons-)

[Acheron]

Mmm, hate the hotel, not the con.

It seemed small and confusingly laid out (and the fact that most of the ways to move between floors were uncomfortably crowded, broken, or closed off didn't help at ALL). The staff was, at best, easily frustrated and overwhelmed by everyone, and at worse, incredibly rude and unhelpful. Of course, they weren't all like this, but it's like... you guys clearly don't like cons OR congoers, so why did you rent your hotel out to us? The location wasn't any good either, in my opinion. At the Doubletree, Lloyd Center was right there for food, but I'm almost positive there isn't anything cheap within walking distance of the Hilton; not to mention the lack of open spaces where we can chill. We're right in the middle of the city, which is a TERRIBLE place for a con to be! And, to add to it all, isn't the Hilton hella expensive?

Still, I'm enjoying myself. I always have, and I hope I always will. There will always be complaints, but it would take a lot more than a crappy hotel to make me hate K-con.

[gladimus]

Because kumoricon is getting larger every year, it needs to be assumed that the next year will have at least 1,000 or more newcomers, and now that it's larger it's safe to assume that next year maybe another 2,000 more will come.
There are a few places that need to be looked for with this assumption.

First- Somewhere with a park or courtyard nearby and easy to access. People need a place to go and rest if indoors gets too stuffy. Also it makes room for games, and interesting photoshoots. People like going outside, it's spacious, relaxing, and easier to find costumes sometimes. It's also a good place to eat lunch, dinner, etc.

This con has gotten big enough that it can't just be reliant on one hotel, it needs a place with more than one close by, like this year but the floors need more space. This current hotel has tiny lobbies and tons of stairs. Even though Double Tree was cramped, it had more halls and spacious areas so it was easier to get around. The Hilton.. Even the sidewalks feels cramped. It's a rather compact set up in there.
An area with 2 to 3 accessible hotels with enough hall space on the floor level would be much more comfortable and easy to work with.
One building would be for main events and the other for viewing and panels.

Another idea is to look for some decent banquet halls, these places have ballrooms that can be split up with dividers and offer quite a bit of space. Ones with hotels nearby of course, and if not near the max line, something that is at least easy to take a frequent busline to from the max.

I don't know how the convention center is too small, they expo center and oregon convention center have a capacity for over 9,000 people. (over 9,000 pun not intended but still funny XD)

Someone suggested the Rose Quarter too. I'm not sure about these places fully though, since I'm in beaverton and don't go to portland too often. The convention may have to be moved to the more outskirty areas of portland, not in vancouver since that's washington, but anywhere just outside portland or near the edge of it. Or just anything around the max line.

Really in a nutshell what is needed is this-

-A park/courtyard
-Nearby restaurants
-Multiple hotels or a hotel with multiple buildings
-Something with spacious halls and lobbies
-Trimet accessible


And for gods sake, someone needs to make sure the hotel staff understand how to handle thousands of cosplayers XD

[Himeno]

Not staff, so I don’t know the exact details, but I do work for two conventions back home and have been to a number of different conventions all over the world in different types of venues, so I can say how these things work.

On the major comments people have posted...

Weather: I honestly don’t think the weather this year has been much of a problem. The “rain” hasn’t been much more then a few drops, no reason to avoid going outside. The most rain of any significant amount there has been was for a few minutes today. The issue here isn’t with the “rain”, it’s because the nearest open space is two blocks away, as opposed to next door like last year. A lot of people don’t want to go that “far away”, so they crowd around in the hotel.

Escalators: Turning them off makes them safer. With the amount of people/weight moving though them, if they brake down, they aren’t safe – the weight could cause them to surge down and throw everyone off the end, or cause a long dress to get stuck in the edges. Turning them off locks them in place. When they are on, they aren’t locked.

Hotel: Kumoricon booked the Hilton before last years convention, before they had numbers for last year. They would have used the numbers from 2007 and a predicted growth rate based on the 2006-2007 numbers to project expected attendance for 2009.
2006 had 2,250.
2007 had 3,003.
With those numbers, a forecast for 2008 would have been around 3,800 and around 4,400 for this year.
They got 4,400 in 2008. They simply weren’t expecting the 6,000 approx this year. To complicate matters they have a venue they haven’t used before with a venue staff that isn’t used to events like this and likely didn’t know exactly what they were getting themselves in for. Most of the venue issues come out of a poor attendance projection, inexperienced hotel staff and normal ‘new venue’ teething problems.
That being said, the Hilton isn’t a very good venue for Kumoricon, but Kumoricon is locked in under contract for next year. I don’t see Kumoricon pulling out of that contract (doing so would likely cost them a fair amount), though the hotel might.
While the Hiltons event spaces might be large (ie, the ballroom), its infrastructure can’t support and event of this type and size. (I don’t even want to think about the security problems for the dealers room being in the parking garage – all those possible points of entry and needing to secure the area when the dealers are closed...).

The majority of the problems that I have noticed are related to the venue. While some of those issues (ie, hotel staff being rude/unhelpful, sound proofing of the moveable walls [live events]) can be solved, the main issues (such as needing another bank of elevators) can’t be.

At one point last night, I did notice a line issue outside Live 1. The line was blocking off the top of the stairs from the lobby, then growing to block the elevators and the escalator. Security and a number of staff (including Beau) came to fix the problem, but no one really looked to have a clear idea about how to fix it and the attendees in the line didn’t appear to understand what they were being told. Crowd control, line management and customer service is something Kumoricon staff needs to work on.

Really, the only venue in Portland that can host Kumoricon at its current size (ie 6,000+) is the convention centre. I would hope that Altonimbus Entertainment is currently speaking with the Portland Convention Centre about dates for 2011 (and 2010 should Hilton decide to dissolve the two year contract).

[makichan]

Yeah, this year has had its pros and cons. These have been my only beefs:

The hotel - I'm finally getting the hang of where everything is at but it's so crowded. I understand when staff members want us to move but when there's nowhere to move to it's frustrating... especially when you move to one area that you were told to move to, only to have a different staff member tell you to move out from that area, as well.
The Hotel Staff - Don't get me wrong, I can see how it might be frustrating/nerve wracking for all of them, but it's just so plain to see how uptight they are about everything. It feels like we're being herded and prodded every which way.
The con staff - This doesn't apply to everyone, but a select few. Some have often directed me in different areas than what I had asked for, no one ever has a direct answer, and often there have been a lot of short tempers. I can see how running this thing can be hella stressful, but for the people who keep it cool despite everything... you're awesome and I appreciate your effort.

Other than that, I've been having a blast meeting new con buddies and seeing all of you forum goers in person.
One more day left~

EDIT:
I forgot the worst part... the location. One of the Soul Eater photo shoots ended early because of a few drunk bums loud and boldly claiming that Park Plaza was their turf and proceeded to take things from us and pick at our clothing. I ended up verbally slamming all of them because I was so offended and pissed off. They clearly had no sense of personal space. This is just a warning to be careful, everyone.

[gladimus]

"The “rain” hasn’t been much more then a few drops, no reason to avoid going outside. The most rain of any significant amount there has been was for a few minutes today."


Umm... I'm not sure where you've been but almost all day saturday it was raining, and sunday it was raining on and off. Sometimes it was light rain, but I got caught in some pretty heavy downpoors multiple times. You must have gone outside at the right time, because I sure didn't. And with props, makup, paint, and certain costume materials.. This is NOT weather anyone would want to go out in with these things. My costume prop was held together with tape, and the rain was beginning to make it curl up, and I had an umbrella. But the umbrella didn't help because of the wind blowing the rain around. I had to go home and change costumes because of this.


And what was kumoricon thinking? You should never make a 2 year contract in a building that you've never even tried using before. It's totally unfair to the con-goers who are part of the reason this entire convention can do what it does. And now look, people wont want to go next year because of this location choice. There's thinking ahead, then there's just going ahead of yourself. There is no way next year at the Hilton will be very fun. More people will want to come, but wont be able to now because there will surely be 7,000 to 8,000 people, and when it can barely fit 6,000... Pardon my french but I think we are quite f***ed.

Can you imagine? Registration line would close off so fast no one would even see it coming, and a lot of people are going to be disappointed.

For the con's sake, I hope the hotel ends the contract.

[tori-chama]

I agree with just about everything being said here, but I wanted to add something: smoking. Was it just me, or were there a lot more people smoking around the hotel than previous years? I can't tell you how many times I had to pass through clouds of cigarette smoke. I mean, come on. There were a lot of really young children there. =/

[Faaedab]

I would first like to say @Himeno Thank you for outlining that very clearly. Second, @gladimus Unfortunately we were not expecting the hotel staff to act as they did during the con. As a yojimbo from what interaction I had with a few staff they were fairly pleasant but I will admit I had recieved my fair share of complaints about them too, but unfortunately we are in no way/shape/form having any say over them as we are in the Hotels area therefor we are stuck having to be patient with them. As with location expectations, we did somewhat expect there to be crowding issues, we just didn't know where to expect them to occur. Being that we have gone through this con and we now know what tends to happen where, things should run MUCH smoother next year as we can properly set up for lines and have a game plan for keeping all the places flowing smoothly. @tori-chama with the smoking issue, unfortunately as yojimbo our power to ask people to do things stops at the door, so at that point it is up to the hotel staff to do something should they deem it necessary. Also as for location we are *hopefully* gonna have the largest space possible to us in 2011 but DO NOT take this as a promise, as it is still in the works, so untill then we will be watching the pre-reg numbers throughout the year and make decisions based upon that. So with all of that out of the way for now, I will say thank you all for coming and I am very sorry that some of you didn't have the con experience you were hoping for, and that I hope you will show up next year as it should go much better as we know our layout and where the bulk of the issues will be.

[DSaturn]

I haven't read all of the posts yet, but I'd like to give the opinion that arose in my group.

We had three people who went last year, and two people that were first timers. I actually didn't find the crowds so bad this year. The first day, in the morning, it was hard to find a place where you could stop, rest, and get your barrings so that you knew where you were going, and we even had issues getting around when they closed off the ballroom. The hardest part about everything was finding our way around, and the hotel didn't seem like they had any idea about what they were getting themselves into.

Our first-timers said that they loved it, and they deffinately want to come back next year. I think most of the issues that came up was merely because this was the first time having the con there. They were taking the most photos for us, as well as one of the vets, and they didn't seem to ever have any trouble.

[JeffT]

Yes but we were told the RAVE was for all ages 13+ and, it did not say 18+ in our booklet.

Marked as 18+ means photo ID and/or hand stamp needs to be checked, due to adult content.

Not marked as 18+, but after minor curfew, means that normally your adult badge alone is sufficient to get in.

The 18+ designation occurs only when the content warrants it, regardless of whether it is after curfew or not. Sorry, but being not marked 18+ should not have been interpreted to mean that it was an exception to curfew.

[JeffT]

And what was kumoricon thinking? You should never make a 2 year contract in a building that you've never even tried using before. It's totally unfair to the con-goers who are part of the reason this entire convention can do what it does. And now look, people wont want to go next year because of this location choice. There's thinking ahead, then there's just going ahead of yourself. There is no way next year at the Hilton will be very fun. More people will want to come, but wont be able to now because there will surely be 7,000 to 8,000 people, and when it can barely fit 6,000... Pardon my french but I think we are quite f***ed.

Can you imagine? Registration line would close off so fast no one would even see it coming, and a lot of people are going to be disappointed.

For the con's sake, I hope the hotel ends the contract.

We have the largest hotel in the Portland metro area. Unfortunately it is not the case that there is a list of several suitable hotels where we can pick and choose from a list of pros and cons.

We don't make a decision to sign a 2-year contract lightly, but there are a large number of reasons that such planning ahead is critical for the convention, even if there could be unexpected problems with the venue. In particular, this is the time range that is standard for planning events this large.

The hotel has every interest in working with us to make our next year as smooth as possible, and in fact, repeating the venue will help us learn the details that we need to plan for and be more prepared for next year.

[Hakushaku]

Yeah it WAS more crowded. But no one can control the weather ofcourse. I liked it but I did not like the Hotel Staff. VERY rude. I had one a$$hole approach me while I was on a table and ask "Do you sit on furniture at home?" I said "No". So he said "Well then can you please not sit on ours?" Well that was fine but use a different approach, buddy. And try to get more seating to support conventions. Some people can't sit on carpet/floors.  I do think I enjoyed last year's better, though. I liked the Double Tree better for 2005 and 2008.

[melchizedek]

I actually thought the double tree was too crowded for 2008.  However, having a park adjacent to the con space makes a huge difference.  Yes, pioneer courthouse square is a couple blocks a way, but people were still asking me where to find it and pioneer place (the mall).  At double tree both were easier to find. 

However, if we went back there, I think the crowding would be worse.  The other option would be to make the con be pre-reg only but I'd hate to see the day when we are not opening to people that just want to stop in for a day.

As is said, Hilton is the biggest hotel in portland, the only other option would be a multi hotel venue. 

But yeah, I feel your pain, as staff I couldn't get stuff done in a timely manner because of congestion, hence part of the reason certain things were starting late. 

Lastly, there is a rant and rave section of the forum which these discussions might be better placed in.

[DSaturn]

Yes, I almost forgot... The biggest thing we kept coming back to was the fact that we missed having the park, like last year. There was no room to do the games/dances/other things. My group went through a lot of trouble learning a dance so that we could do it with another group that had created it, and it turned out we never did get room to do it. We absolutely adored the park last year.

[ichigo_m.]

I have to agree....

It wasn't put together well. There were alot of people, and I'm fine with that, but it more how poorly it was put together. It was ridiculous to have only 4 elevators and have the stairs blocked off after 9. Also why not points to the stairs better, it was ridiculous getting to the karaoke room. It would be better to keep everything on 4 floors that were some what close together.

Also, what was up with the staff blocking off that one ramp, it made no sense. Also why were some of the escalators on and some off, come on, people like consistency!

Edit: I think K-con is big enough that we need the convention center next year....

[Bresslol]

It was ridiculous to have only 4 elevators

Okay, seriously.

I need to point something out.

How is this Kumoricon's fault? Did they arbitrarily decide to put four elevators in the hotel? Are you expecting them to magically build more elevators or something?

I'm not meaning to single your post out, but complaining about things outside of the convention's control (the building, weather, city, etc) is a little ridiculous. Something like "The yojimbo who were in charge of line control of the elevators did their job poorly"* is a little more reasonable of a complaint.

It's fine to have beefs about the convention itself. It's not fine to make complaints that are out of the convention's control.

[leonmasteries]

ya, this hotel really wasn't prepared for this con, otherwise it might have gone a bit more smoothly.

[XFD]

Okay, seriously.

I need to point something out.

How is this Kumoricon's fault? Did they arbitrarily decide to put four elevators in the hotel? Are you expecting them to magically build more elevators or something?

When you decide to put a new building somewhere, you usually send out a surveyor to make sure the site is suitable for the project. If a company constructs a building on unsuitable land where it shortly sinks and topples over, blaming the earth is ridiculous. (E.g. the fact the hotel only had 4 elevators).

The issue isn't that the convention didn't build the hotel, the issue being brought up is that the chosen place was apparently unsuitable. It is the staff's duty to ensure that the site selected is appropriate for the given crowd. This is the complaint being raised.

[~boogiepop~]

I actually had a lot of fun at the convention this year. Sadly, it was because my group and I were trying to stay out of the hotel. I will also not be attending Kumoricon next year if it takes place in the Hilton again. I've never been treated so badly at a hotel in my life. When the hotel kept switching out how to get down to gaming and I started to go the wrong way one of them got in my face and yelled "You're going the wrong way you freak!". I've worked in jobs that demand customer service and I know it can be tough, but god damn, you don't berate your customers.

The yoji were pretty ballin' though. I <3 all ya'll and I had no problems with them minus an incident with one (who would I send a complaint to about that by the way?).

Having it downtown was pretty nice too, lots of restaurants to choose from to go and chill at and the parks downtown were gorgeous for photoshoots when there weren't bums in them. Though if they do have the con at the Hilton next year, I suggest doing what Sakuracon did and set up a "Meetup schedule" in the programming guide with numbered areas to have gatherings in.

All in all, I can't wait 'til the higher ups are able to hold it at the convention center. I don't know the numbers, but I'm sure Kumoricon is just going to get bigger and bigger. I think that will be spacious enough to make everyone happy. Also, I think someone mentioned earlier about there being no hotels by the area? The Double Tree is only a short walk, or a one stop Max ride for the handicapped, away and the Red Lion is also right down the street as well.

[LtCommanderRichie]

I honestly had no problems whatsoever with Yojimbo. They were all very courteous and complimentary, and understood what was going on. When I had to get down to the Green Room for the Cosplay Contest pre-meet they grilled me as to why I need to go down there, but after all that it turned out it was in the other building after all.

Which brings me to my actual point in this post- for the love of Primus, higher-ups, please. If there are two buildings that a convention is being held in, pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease specify which building the specific rooms are in. You wouldn't even have to print the schedule any smaller. Just put a bracket around the tops of the room names and specify that those rooms are in the other building. That was so slagging confusing. I spent twenty minutes running up and down a good twelve flights of stairs several times trying to find the room that the Cosplay Contest pre-meet was in. I would have taken the elevators, except for the part where the line took longer to get through than the elevator ride itself.

And who told the hotel security to start greeting everyone with "Hello and thank you for coming, I like your costume!" on Saturday? because that was creepy.

[BloodyVampiric]

This convention Sucked!!
IT was wayy to crowded! The staff ppl were completly ruuude!! i mean i was trying to get my friennd who was mickey mouse to the girls bath room from the lobby the the ramp bathroom area and we told him we were going to the bathroom and he said no! I mean hello come on!! so we went around to the escalator down to the lobby and ask her if we can cut across to go to the bathroom and she shook her head no and we just looked at her and said the other guy said we couldnt go up the ramp to just go to the bathroom so she letted us go.
The Hotel was small spaced!!!

The only time i had fun was the Kingdom hearts photoshoot and taking pictures of others. Also of course with my gf and also meeting new ppl along with my ROXAS!!!

I gonna miss everyone!!!

[StarryShay]

If the weather was nice, and there was a park across the street like at the Double Tree, it would have been alot funner.
Does anyone know why exactly we're habing it at the Hilton again next year?

[xxxchihiroxxx]

And who told the hotel security to start greeting everyone with "Hello and thank you for coming, I like your costume!" on Saturday? because that was creepy.

It was just the two that were blocking off that one section near the escalators... x_x i was the one who told you about that right? xD It kinda creeped me out when they said that and I wasnt even wearing my costume!

[Hazuza]

If the weather was nice, and there was a park across the street like at the Double Tree, it would have been alot funner.
Does anyone know why exactly we're habing it at the Hilton again next year?

Because they only sign in 2-year contracts, so we're stuck here unless the Hilton wants to cancel on us.

[xxxchihiroxxx]

If the weather was nice, and there was a park across the street like at the Double Tree, it would have been alot funner.
Does anyone know why exactly we're habing it at the Hilton again next year?

Because they only sign in 2-year contracts, so we're stuck here unless the Hilton wants to cancel on us.

we could have a chance of changing venues if we raise enough complaints about harassment and assault against the attendees. I know I got some, and it is illegal and could possibly help with a loop hole in the contract. I havent read the contract but our best chance of getting out of it is most likley to express our distaste for it, and back it up with the story's we have of WHY we dont like it.

[Kallika]

It was my first con so I have nothing else to compare it to...other then the fact that I got lost and was alone a lot of the time, ended up waiting in lines for over an hour only to be kicked out...I did have fun though but I wont be going next year if it's at the Hilton....

[StarryShay]

If the weather was nice, and there was a park across the street like at the Double Tree, it would have been alot funner.
Does anyone know why exactly we're habing it at the Hilton again next year?

Because they only sign in 2-year contracts, so we're stuck here unless the Hilton wants to cancel on us.

we could have a chance of changing venues if we raise enough complaints about harassment and assault against the attendees. I know I got some, and it is illegal and could possibly help with a loop hole in the contract. I havent read the contract but our best chance of getting out of it is most likley to express our distaste for it, and back it up with the story's we have of WHY we dont like it.

P-E-T-T-I-I-O-N. ;3

[Mitsukai Mizu Amaya]

Petition.

[xxxchihiroxxx]

with back up of stories D:

[StarryShay]

Amaya - Excuse my typo. =)
But you know what I meant. :'3

Jill - Yush yush. :3

[Kallika]

Silly string being sprayed in my wig....maddd.....

[StarryShay]

I don't like the fact that the executive tower and hotel are split up.
It's a bit scary to walk across the road at night, after a panel or whatever. ;w;

[mikeblastdude]

I would totally be in for signing a petition and giving my view on how awful the hotel staff was to us.

That being said, I still had a lot of fun at the convention, despite the crappy location. :D

[oslapedo]

Main complaints~

- Last year the curfew for minors was extended till 2am for the rave but this year it wasn't
- Split buildings
- Confusion
- Stuffiness
- Lack of central meeting place
- DISCOMBOBULATION
- No park
- Hotel was horrible
- General air of depression

If it's in the Hilton again next year I'll be going to other cons instead, this was ridiculous and I feel bad about this being some people's first con.

I did have some good times but as this is the WAHHH SAD thread I'm gonna keep it negative b

Oh, but I will speak up and say that some of the hotel staff were very nice and helpful, all things considered. The staff I talked to around 2-4am were really cool, or maybe it's just because there was barely anyone out so they could chill~

[Bresslol]

Okay, seriously.

I need to point something out.

How is this Kumoricon's fault? Did they arbitrarily decide to put four elevators in the hotel? Are you expecting them to magically build more elevators or something?

When you decide to put a new building somewhere, you usually send out a surveyor to make sure the site is suitable for the project. If a company constructs a building on unsuitable land where it shortly sinks and topples over, blaming the earth is ridiculous. (E.g. the fact the hotel only had 4 elevators).

The issue isn't that the convention didn't build the hotel, the issue being brought up is that the chosen place was apparently unsuitable. It is the staff's duty to ensure that the site selected is appropriate for the given crowd. This is the complaint being raised.

Do you expect that a hotel is built with the fact that a major anime con is going to happen there?

How can you predict that an event is going to cap/sell out?

This was the convention's first year in the hotel. It's like playing in a new ballfield - you have to learn the nuances of the diamond and where the ball is gonna fly.

You're not going to have a perfect con. You cannot expect everything at a con to fall in a favorable direction. Everybody is going to have a problem with something. Having criticism is perfectly legitimate. The convention staff can learn from positive, constructive criticism.

Saying something like this is not at all helpful:

This convention Sucked!!
IT was wayy to crowded! The staff ppl were completly ruuude!! i mean i was trying to get my friennd who was mickey mouse to the girls bath room from the lobby the the ramp bathroom area and we told him we were going to the bathroom and he said no! I mean hello come on!! so we went around to the escalator down to the lobby and ask her if we can cut across to go to the bathroom and she shook her head no and we just looked at her and said the other guy said we couldnt go up the ramp to just go to the bathroom so she letted us go.
The Hotel was small spaced!!!

The staff were completely rude? All of them? How were they rude? What did they say?
If you had to use the restroom, and the staff was being disagreeable, why not ask where the nearest bathroom is?
The hotel being small spaced is unfortunate, but not something I blame he convention or its organizers for.

I also disagree of hotel staff being rude. I use a cane, and when I had to get from point a to point b, and stairs were normally involved, I was accomodated for and shown how to reach point b quickly.

I think the convention's staff were great. They were all very friendly and helpful, and were not afraid to find an answer if they did not know.

Overall, I had a fantastic experience, and even though I staff at another con, I thought that the staff from regular staff up to the directors, did a fantastic job in bringing the best convention they could. I had a blast, and am personally considering staffing in 2010, sine I would personally be proud to work on such a great team.

[mangakaluna]

I personally had a blast...

I agree that the placement of things inside the Hotel was awkward, and that some of the Hilton staff had short fuses (Tho I suspect part of the reason for that was because they most likely did NOT expect Kumoricon to be like this.)
The layout was a tad confusing, but whenever I was lost I would just ask a Yojimbo or Hotel staff (yes, there were actually a few staff who KNEW where it was )

The main thing that bugged me was a few drunk people :/

[DemonSpawn]

I had a blast too, but not as part of the convention, all my funtime was in my hotel room or my friend's. Just all of us hanging out was way more fun than going to any panels.
I mean it felt like I could have stayed as a HOTEL guest, not a CON attendie, and would've been treated ten times better, and still had just as much fun.

[nikkiolie]

One thing that really bugged me was the elevators and how the hotel staff made a separate line for other guest and a line for k-con attendees. It wouldn't have been so bad but they let the hotel guest go first no matter how long they had been there compared to how long you have. I was a paying guest too why do they get to go on right away and make others wait?

Other then that after a little getting used to the set up it wasn't bad at all. The hardest thing was finding a place where we could just hang out. I like sitting in kinda crowded places because I like watching people but there wasn't a lot of places to sit around there.

[ichigoxcupcakes]

This is going to be long.
But it's what I experienced, so I would like to share it.
Please do not flame me, because this is what I personally think. You do not have to agree with me.
I wanted to write more, but these are just small summaries (I'm tired lol)

THE HOTEL/THE LOCATION
This was just a terrible mistake. It was a small venue, and it didn't fit all the attendees, that is for sure. Most events were cancelled, over-packed, and very VERY rude. I have never heard such people. I was so upset with the service and the staff yelling at us, that I took the stairs EVERY DAY. (now I look pretty good~lol) the elevator situation was RIDICULOUS, to the point where I never took one. I went up the stairs ALL THE WAY TO THE 23RD FLOOR. That should tell you something, that how ridiculous it was!  The rooms were too small for panels and such, and reached maxiumum compatcity ridiculously fast. I know my friends were all looking forward to the masquerade ball, and were in lines for HOURS, then they told them they reached maximum people. I understand the fire rules and everything, but it was to the point where it was utterly stupid and ridiculous. I had more fun in MY HOTEL ROOM than being near the convention center. It was that terrible I have to admit, which makes me sad. I wanted to stay as far away as possible, which is sad because I PAID MONEY TO BE THERE. And I couldn't even attend what I wanted to go to. Which was very dissapointing.
The location was not good at all for the convention either, we were mixed with everyday people (lol) and we did take up A LOT OF THE SIDEWALK (to the point where the police were involved) it was not a smart location at all for 3,000+ congoers *(and thats only pre-reg)
I know this was the VERY FIRST year at the Hilton downtown, but if you think it will change next year. I highly doubt that. Due to look at this year, how rude and inconsiderate they were of us. We are all people, but they treated us more like cattle then humans, I think.
I thought it was also confusing that the two Hiltons were used as well (most of us thought it was just in the Downtown Hilton, not Executive tower)

THE KUMORICON STAFF
I congrats you for putting up with all of this chaos. It was very difficult for con-goers, but I know for a fact, it's much more stressful for the staff. I hope you all did your best, and understand that Hilton, was a terrible mistake. DX
I hope you seriously think about severing the contract for 2010, because look at all the responses >///< and I know that A LOT of people will not attend if it is at the Hilton next year.


HOTEL STAFF
Terrible. Absolutely.
That is hands down, the most horrible hotel staff I have seen. Never in my life have I seen people mistreat us as such, (freaks, jerks, and worse!) If you are going to talk down about us, WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU WANT TO HAVE THE CONVENTION THERE. It's no surprise there are going to be people in interesting attires. It's what a convention is, and if you nothing to say that is nice, then do not say it at all. I was told we were in the way numerous times AND WE WERE ON THE STAIRS GOING UP.
My friends dressed up as NORMAL PEOPLE. (took off their badges, ears etc .) and went up to the hotel staff confused and asking questions, AND THEY WERE THE SWEETEST PEOPLE TO THEM. seriously? seriously. Yes. It shows that they weren't considerate to us con-goers. I know yelling and screaming are tactics of telling us to move, but calling us names. Does not help.
It was ridiculous how lost we became and how they didn't even know where the stairs were. They didn't even want us to take the stairs!! How ridiculous, you think people are going to wait for an elevator that skips floors? I do not think so. (I was on the 9th floor one time, and the elevator skipped me 15 TIMES. Hence, why I took the stairs)

PANELS/EVENTS
Most events were cancelled, over-packed, and very unorganized (they didn't start on time etc.)  The map was confusing if you were just browsing at it as well, not very good for first time con-goers. Luckily all of us were with veterans and finally figured the darn thing out (after hours of studying) We tried to attend 18+ events, but they were packed (we wanted to watch Yaoi) and the Yuri event was in the same room, and people STAYED in the room, so no one else could enter, because it was at full. (which again was stupid, not large enough rooms)
I thought it was terrible that most events did not happen on time or were cancelled (though that is understandable)
I attend the Ramen eating contest today, and the Hilton CANCELLED it, due to them serving OUTSIDE food. I know that event has taken place in many hotels previously, and that is stupid. They were already a few rounds in, then they had to cancel it. Seriously, terrible.

PHOTOS
After the winners of the skits were announced everyone wanted pictures. So we did our best and then we were told to move out of the way (We were against a wall....)
I thought that was just silly, We did our best to stay out of the way at all possibilities!!

BEHIND THE SCENES
I took part in the cosplay contest, and we needed to attend the PRE-MEETING. We were told it was the Rounds over email, so we arrived and they told us it was in the Creation station on the 3rd floor. THEN they told us it was in the other Hilton tower, and we only had 5 minutes to arrive on time. This pissed me and my skit partners off, because we were stressed enough during the day.
During the meeting, we were told to arrive 30 minutes before our scheduled time. We did, and got there prepared to start. WE WERE THERE FOR THREE HOURS waiting for our time!! Cosplay walkon was supposed to end at 8:15, the skits didn't get to rehearse until 10:30 or later, we missed all of our plans that day and such due to it. It was RIDICULOUS. Most of us slept on the chairs, and were starving so we left. And when we came back, they still weren't starting.
 I'm sorry, but if you say we need to be there at this time, we will. But if you are going to just start at the time you told us, we will not be happy campers at all. I know, you did your best, but at the same time....it was extremely frustrating to the point where I was pissed off the the extreme.

RECOMMENDATIONS
Definitely different hotel, since the Hilton was absolutely terrible (and if you haven't found that out, seriously read all the previous posts...)
I would suggest doing at one of these past hotels, since for me and my friends were were the BEST experiences of Kumoricon we had (out of the 6 years we have gone) I'm going to suggest WHY as well, that Kumoricon should be here.
Because if it is at the Hilton next year....a lot of con-goers will not attend (I will be one of them)

Double Tree (Portland, OR)
This was a nice location, it had food nearby, and a park. It seemed like everyone had a good time last year there, and it was very nice location. It had shade, and it was slightly secluded from "normal people".

Red Lion Hotel (Janzen Beach, OR)
I know this was a very hard hotel for the staff, but it was the best BEST Kumoricon I had ever attended. The locating was AMAZING, beautiful scenery, amazing rooms and spaces. And I never once had to deal with anyone who was rude, or packed rooms/hallways. It was a very large convention space. It also was a great location. It was literally the best Kumoricon, ever *(all my friends agreed)
It was amazing, because it was friendly, and just perfect. If you have it here, I will definitely attend in less than a heartbeat.

Hilton (Vancouver, WA)
I know the downtown Hilton was a pain, but this one was again, a wonderful location. It was VERY SPACIOUS outside, to the point where it was so large that people could roam off and do their own thing. We didn't disturb others with or antics, and they appreciated our efforts and cosplays. It was friendly, and very nice. Though there were some hiccups, it was a very nice convention. Though it is out of the way, it was worth it because it was very spacious and friendly.


But none the less, if the contact is still valid with Hilton next year, all of my friends and myself will not attend~

[nikkiolie]

I really really liked the Hilton in 07. It was a great location.

[StarryShay]

I love all of your Hotel suggestions Natalie. ;o;
Also, Jill brought up the idea of going to the convention center too~!

[oslapedo]

I agree with everyone who said they had more fun when they weren't even doing con stuff. Maybe next year I'll just stay in the hotel during con time so I can enjoy the cosplayers so I won't have to spend $40 on a pointless plastic badge.

~ I liked the Doubletree and convention center ideas, but honestly, I'd enjoy anything but the Portland Hilton again.

[@random]

Just my two cents, but the main thing needed to reduce crowding isn't floorspace - it's having a SAFE place to go outside. All the better if it's one of the prettier parks or by the water, i.e. for photoshoots, but it has to be safe. And the Hilton miserably fails on this account.

As an adult, I was frequently creeped out by the way the neighborhood wanderers were acting. I can't imagine what it was like for the youngsters. And if I were a parent, I wouldn't want my kids outside the hotel for any reason unless there were one or more adults with them.

As far as the staff? Please remember that there are dozens of staff, most of whom you don't notice. The short-tempered one who yelled at you for no reason, or the arrogant one who shoved you aside just to throw their weight and prove how big they are, are a tiny minority. For every one of them, there are at least a dozen people who put up with little sleep, a hectic pace, almost no reward, and working with hundreds of people a day (which ensures they have to deal with a lot of jerks in both the hotel staff and the attendees)... but they keep smiling and doing everything they can to make sure someone else can have a good time.

[Darknight2433]

Haha, I'd like to point out how my friends and I felt when we made a trip to Voodoo.

Osla, care to share our experience with random drunk strangers getting abnormally close to us?

[BloodyWhisker]

Agreed, this convention was the worst one I had been to.

For first timers at the Con, it was probably fun. But for us who have been here for more than one year, like I who have gone for 3 years now... nononono, this Con was nothing compaired to the other cons. xD Yes, I did like the cosplaying and having fun at the panels and such, but the hotel staff were just so rude and controlling over everyone who was there. Not just the cosplayers, too. Everyone. I'd have to say that the Double Tree Hotel was definately better. There were more places to eat and hang around, friendly and helpful staff, etc. This year the staff were grumpy, though it might have been from how excited people were and they hadn't been expecting that much of a crowd to be there. Whatever the case, this year didn't have many food places around. I found myself hungry in the middle of the day and unable to eat anything but McDonolds or Subway or Voodoo Doughnuts, really. :/ There weren't a whole lot of places to hang around there, either, except for Pioneer Square.
Other than that, I loved the panels (especially hosting the Ouran Tea Party and going to the Charity Auction) and I loved looking around the dealers room.

[StarryShay]

Haha, I'd like to point out how my friends and I felt when we made a trip to Voodoo.

Osla, care to share our experience with random drunk strangers getting abnormally close to us?

._.

And yeahhh, I had a problem with all the strange people that were lurking around the hotels occasionally, that were drunk. D':

[XFD]

Do you expect that a hotel is built with the fact that a major anime con is going to happen there?

Not what I said. Do not poorly straw-man this point.

How can you predict that an event is going to cap/sell out?

Steady trends plus error. I believe someone mentioned a projected membership of 4800 people and had an actual error of 20%. What is the cost trade off for capacity of 4800 + 25% vs. an error of 4800 + 0%? Again, this is a strawman and not dealing with the fundamental issue that the initial survey was not up to par.

words

Irrelevant.

[oslapedo]

Haha, I'd like to point out how my friends and I felt when we made a trip to Voodoo.

Osla, care to share our experience with random drunk strangers getting abnormally close to us?

What an experience that was.

Who thought that putting a crapload of teenagers in the middle of crazy downtown was a good idea? Hoho, at least we had each other

[@random]

*joins in with the growing chant*

Dou-ble-tree! Dou-ble-tree! Dou-ble-tree!  

[StarryShay]

I'm glad nobody got hurt though.
If you think about it, even walking to get dinner at night in Portland is kind of dangerous. O.O;;

[BloodyWhisker]

Downtown isn't exactly the safest place at all in the first place, really. There are a lot of weird people around there, and it is dangerous.
As long as we all stay in groups of close friends it'll all be okay. c:


And oh gosh, strangers getting strangely close to you? D: That sounds really... awkward. I guess the location was just a little bit of a hassle this time...?

[xxxchihiroxxx]

double tree would be nice but we are WAY to big D: which really sucks. we were to big last year and I dont want to imagine what it would be like next year if we went there.

the best bet is probably the center.

we need 8k people to rent it out, which I think we can probably do. It may also be expensive, but probably worth it if the hilton becomes a saftey hazord.

for one there are to many people for the hilton, to the point where its going to be a fire hazord if we try to pack more people in there.

[oslapedo]

I'm genuinely curious, how realistic is it that KCon could potentially change to a different hotel/space for next year?

If KCon stays with the Hilton then instead of an increase in attendance there'll be a decrease. I'd bet $5 on that.

[Man of the Public]

Just an observation but going back to the Double Tree wouldn't solve the biggest of the problems, over crowding. While it is fantastic that Kcon is growing at such a rate we will not be able to fit into hotels past next year.

Past the first day, I found that most the problems had mostly gone away by mid second day.

[BloodyWhisker]

double tree would be nice but we are WAY to big D: which really sucks. we were to big last year and I dont want to imagine what it would be like next year if we went there.

Agreed. KCon is too big to go back to the Double Tree, but we could at least try and get something similar to it. I definately enjoyed it there a lot.
Another concern that I have is how spendy things were in the area. :/ Everything in the hotel seemed pretty expensive and I didn't quite enjoy that. Because of prices on things there at the hotel I had spent more than I had anticipated in the begining.

[oslapedo]

Even if we can't get the Double Tree, at least it has a huge park and a mall right next to it whereas the Hilton has nothing so that most people are forced to be squished inside.

I'd like to get out of the downtown area, it smells bad, everyone's always smoking and at night the creepers are creepy.

[XFD]

Since I have nothing to gain either way I'd like to bounce this idea off of everyone here who's unhappy:

Next year, it seems that the con will be at the same location without condition.

You have all shown up with a gameplan of stuff you'd like to do, and so did everyone else. The current venue has too many people-per-piece of content (panels/showing/etc). My best suggestion to Kumoricon staff is to split the con into two halves next year. Pick a ceiling for the hotel you have to work with (lets say 3000), setup content that is specific to 3000 attendees. Run that as the first one. For the balance of the fans (so they don't all wish to hit the first convention) setup the rest of the content for that one (4000 or so?). It covers the expenses that you're obligated to pay, lessens the burden across two venues and gives you breathing room to sort everything else out. Maybe leave out the gaming room for the second con.

Just an idea.

[ichigoxcupcakes]

RECOMMENDATIONS
Definitely different hotel, since the Hilton was absolutely terrible (and if you haven't found that out, seriously read all the previous posts...)
I would suggest doing at one of these past hotels, since for me and my friends were were the BEST experiences of Kumoricon we had (out of the 6 years we have gone) I'm going to suggest WHY as well, that Kumoricon should be here.
Because if it is at the Hilton next year....a lot of con-goers will not attend (I will be one of them)

Double Tree (Portland, OR)
This was a nice location, it had food nearby, and a park. It seemed like everyone had a good time last year there, and it was very nice location. It had shade, and it was slightly secluded from "normal people".

Red Lion Hotel (Janzen Beach, OR)
I know this was a very hard hotel for the staff, but it was the best BEST Kumoricon I had ever attended. The locating was AMAZING, beautiful scenery, amazing rooms and spaces. And I never once had to deal with anyone who was rude, or packed rooms/hallways. It was a very large convention space. It also was a great location. It was literally the best Kumoricon, ever *(all my friends agreed)
It was amazing, because it was friendly, and just perfect. If you have it here, I will definitely attend in less than a heartbeat.

Hilton (Vancouver, WA)
I know the downtown Hilton was a pain, but this one was again, a wonderful location. It was VERY SPACIOUS outside, to the point where it was so large that people could roam off and do their own thing. We didn't disturb others with or antics, and they appreciated our efforts and cosplays. It was friendly, and very nice. Though there were some hiccups, it was a very nice convention. Though it is out of the way, it was worth it because it was very spacious and friendly.


But none the less, if the contact is still valid with Hilton next year, all of my friends and myself will not attend~

[BloodyWhisker]

Even if we can't get the Double Tree, at least it has a huge park and a mall right next to it whereas the Hilton has nothing so that most people are forced to be squished inside.

I'd like to get out of the downtown area, it smells bad, everyone's always smoking and at night the creepers are creepy.

you brang up some good points. Having the park so close was amazing and having an area with not so much smoking would be great. Those with asthma would really appreciate it, I'd think.

[nikkiolie]

I think something that would have helped would be if something major was in another building. All the major things were in the main hotel, but if Main events or the dealers hall was in the executive towers that would take a lot of the people out of one building and send them to the other.

[xxxchihiroxxx]

Osla: I am not positive. there were a few stories flying around the con that things would change and we could get out but honestly i found out later those to be false.

HOWEVER from what I know about contracts if its braking a law there might be a way out hence:

1. Assault against attendees counts as a law break as they were in many cases assaulting us.

you have a right to go to the bathroom, im not sure how the policy's go for stores but i find generally with hotels they let you go when you have to go.

2. It could be possibly that if the con goes there again there will be to many of us to make it a safe place and it will be a fire hazard. I believe we already broke a few fire safety laws and crowding of the side walk ish laws.

however it would probably cost some money to get out of the contract, and its not like K con is loaded. THe best bet is that hte Hilton might pull out if we push the second problem I pointed out. but then again their pretty desperate for business.

i doubt here will be an increase, however i doubt will double in numbers like we did the last two years (we really cant actually have an increase considering if were at the same hotel we've already filled its capacity)

Man of the Public: i noticed that to, the only real problem that was bugging me after the mid way through the second day was the hotel security, not the staff the security. i found the staff to be quiet pleasant, security on the other hand WAS NOT.

XFD: I dont quiet understand your idea. I doubt well be able to change but even if we dont im willing to be things will go smoother next year.

[oslapedo]

Well, now that there's a few cons in the NW why go to Kumoricon when it's miserable? If it's going to be a drab experience at the same place again I'd rather just go to more pleasantly located cons.

nikki brings up a good point. I only went to the executive tower for Para Para and something else and it felt really pointless and out of the way.

[lychee-twist]

KCon was fun! I liked it, but I was in the Artist Alley 80% of the time. That was not as crowded as last year. The lobby of the Double Tree was bigger so it only seemed bigger than the Hilton, which was two buildings.

I hated the lobby this year. I really hope we don't have to go back as I believe we are contracted with the Hilton again for 2010.

From where I was, I never once heard a complaint about Kumoricon or the staffers themselves. Actually, there was one, and that was the schedule wasn't as packed as last year, but that's because its the first 24 hour con for Kumoricon so there was a lot of open space. That will change in time.

All the complaints were about the hotel and the hotel security. Given the Hilton had obligations to their other customers, but it was still hard. Things were blocked off, and then they weren't. It was very inconsistent to get to Artist Alley. Really this wasn't anyone of the staff's fault. In addition, the lobbies were just too small. I found it a bit of a safety hazard. God forbid a serious fire should break out next year in the lobby. It would be a disaster. to have everyone racing outside through the rotating doors and the side doors.

I suggest that everyone make a complaint to the Hilton in regards to this, and not just Kumoricon. Kumoricon last year was about 5K attendees, and this year was, what, 7K or more? That's a 2K hike in a year. Next year will be even bigger. WE HAVE GOT TO FIND A NEW HOTEL. Not just for everyone comfort and to dodge those god-awful elevators, but for the safety of everyone!

Also, I was not thrilled with the Hilton's amenities. For such an expensive place, the rooms were small, there was no mini fridge, and there was no Wireless. An ethernet cord cost $10 a day. That's waaaaaaaaaaay to expensive for internet these days. This isn't mentioning the 10 minute lines just to use the elevators.

But I should stress again that for me the Staff and Security of Kumoricon was wonderful, and I thank you all for your hard work. Especially the elevator guys. What a pain that must've been to manage.

[lychee-twist]

Whatever the case, this year didn't have many food places around. I found myself hungry in the middle of the day and unable to eat anything but McDonolds or Subway or Voodoo Doughnuts, really. :/ There weren't a whole lot of places to hang around there, either, except for Pioneer Square.
m.

There was plenty of food places around. It was all listed in the map of the pocket guide. Not to mention that Pioneer Mall was two blocks away.

The pocket guide map was FANTASTIC, too. Thank you for that!

[ichigo_m.]

Honestly my favorite location so far was the 2007 location... It seemed pretty spacious~

I still vote convention center....

Isn't next year or the one after K-con's tenth anniversary?

[Mitsukai Mizu Amaya]

The Hilton in '07 was my first convention and I just have to say it was my favorite thus far. Many access points, not a lot of traffic through the area, the giant park and the fountain, all of it. This year I missed the brunt of the negativity, but did experience of few things that just made me angry. My biggest one was sort of two-fold. Crowdedness and the small areas. I loved the Doubletrees' lobby and hallways; they were maybe slightly less then twice the width of the ones at the Hilton. I was wearing Wedding Yuna and people kept running into my wings(though the worst was being trmapled during cosplay chess, but that's another story. xD) due to lack of room. Another was an incident when I was taking to one of the Kcon staffers about needing to get downstairs fast because of the cosplay fashion show. This was around the time of the blocking off the escalators and my lack of knowledge about the stairs(as well as thinking they were still blocked off ot us). The staffer was nice and trying to help me, pointing me in the right direction, and then one of the hotel staff came by and started yelling at me because I was standing off to the side of the hallway(the ramp leading to the bathroom). I kept trying to get my question answered but she just kept on yelling at me to move(the poor con staffer!). In the end I just left and eventually realized we oculd use the stairs and spent a little while looking for them and once I finally got there... I had to wait for setting up and stuff(despite being there around the right time and possibly a little late, I was one of the first fashion show walkers to show up.). Then the dealer's room; I had no idea where it was so when I found out that it was downstairs(no one said parking until later; all I knew was it was downstairs) I used the stairs to get there instead of the parking garage. We got there when it was closing and yelled at by security for takign the wrong way in. How the hell were we to know? It's not like the door was locked(the sign saying not to go that way was on one side of the door, not the other so we missed it) and I didn't know it was the parking garage. Even then I wouldn't have been able to go in that rain; both of my costumes are paper-thin and the brightest white; it would be like a full-body wet t-shirt contest... and I'm the only one playing.

Then the ridiculous situation with the elevators. I mostly took the stairs everywhere, which is definately not a good thing for me. I've had breathing problems in the past and just finished my third doctor's visit on the first of September(the other two being in a two week time before that) due to severe dehydration(which makes no sense; I drink water like a fish). Sometimes I can be prone to blacking out and by the time I got to the ninth floor I'd get those little light dot thingies in my vision/lightheadedness and I would need to rest for a while before going back down. And there were many times when I would need to get to my room fast to change from one cosplay to another and back for events and things; Most of the time I had a bottle of water of something either with me or carried by someone else(while I carried my cosplay's train).

Having the panel rooms in another building was definately not a good idea. I spent a good half an hour looking for the panel rooms and nearly ended up late to the one I was in because I a) needed to go back for something(I was actually one of the first there originally), b)couldn't get an elevator and c)trying to maneuver the streets to the panel in the Executive tower.

Other then that I really enjoyed the convention. My FMA AMV got into the contest and I watched that; it was amazing. Cosplay was an absolute riot, especially with an actual board this year; next year I'm all for an anime vs videogame match, but that's besides the point. Some panels and things may have not started on time, but ones like the Random Panel and such were my highlights(Cid stole my feather!). It also gave me the idea of wearing Yuna and using the train as a picnic blanket because of that panel. xD And the hotel staff wasn't all bad. I got a few compliments from them and 'normal' people as well. The con staff were very nice for the most part and I think they did a good job with the hand they were dealt this year. It's probably so stressing for them; I remember during pre-reg on Friday(I was helping out a bit because I'm friends with quite a few staff) that wherever they went upstairs to set up, people followed to ask if pre-reg was open yet. It wasn't time to even start lining up yet and staff hadn't even set up. They didn't even know exactly where everything would be until later anyway. All this definately won't stop me from going to con next year(I'm going VIP next year probably for my eighteenth birthday) but still; it's definately disconcerting.

[gladimus]

If it weren't for the hilton, I'm sure next year we would have had enough people attending to rent out the convention center. But now thanks to such bad experiences, it might not hit that point for a long time. Clearly, this will be worse next year. Things might be better planned out, but it wont change the fact that, largest hotel or not, this hotel's inner design is TERRIBLY small, and it really shows. Other buildings, though maybe smaller, felt larger because the design was made with nice long wide hallways and open areas to rest.
The hilton was so hard to find a place to rest, there were 2 little lobby areas with some couches and chairs, and outside you couldn't sit on the stairs, and pioneer square is a very creepy place to have photoshoots. Every time I've been there, even just in general going to portland, there has always been at least one really creepy person in the area. Once again, no matter how well planned the event may be, you can't change the fact that people have a little ways to walk to get to a hangout place and even if they did it wont feel comfortable or safe. We souldn't have to rely on safety in numbers, we're not little kids! You can change the con organization, but you can't change the fact that creepy homeless people are going to bother con-goers like no tomorrow in that area.

No matter how it's planned, it will always feel cramped. All the other kumoricons were in areas with wide open space nearby, parks, etc. This place has buildings surrounding it. And that wont change.

The size of the building also wont change. It's funny people are saying it's the largest hotel, but walking around the building isn't that hard. I can do it in less than 5 minutes. The perimeter is REALLY important in a hotel for a con, along with the inside area. It doesn't matter if the hotel is large because of many hotel rooms. We usually only use 2-3 floors, and when the perimeter of the floors are this small, there will be no room. Period. And with more people next year, that makes more people disappointed because the capacity will NOT change. This hotel is the largest for rooms, not for 3 main floors for people to have events. Every other hotel seemed VERY large perimeter-wise, they had more open space and a better layout inside for events, and better outside too.

Say as much as you want, production staff, but no matter how you plan this next year convention, the hilton will still be a very ikky* place for it.

Content modified for language

[LtCommanderRichie]

Honestly my favorite location so far was the 2007 location... It seemed pretty spacious~

I still vote convention center....

Isn't next year or the one after K-con's tenth anniversary?

It was spacious in 2007 because there were far less of us.

Also, having locked doors and people in massive lines and not allowing people to get on elevators on some floors breaks the fire safety code. But apparently, since the door could open from the ballroom level into the staircase but not from the staircase to the ballroom level, that makes it okay. Sure.

After a while I just stopped paying attention to the hotel security, and once I knew where everything was that I needed to go to I had a marvelous time.

[oslapedo]

There wasn't anything to eat at night though, except for Voodoo which doesn't count as real food.

My room had a mini fridge but I called in and requested a room with one so~

[lychee-twist]

Gladimus, seriously. Write them a formal and polite complaint. We need to get out of this contract. It's not just annoying for the attendees, it's flat out not safe to be tripping over people like we were.

[oslapedo]

I can see things going one of two ways of it stays at the Hilton. Either less people show up so that the con loses revenue, etc, or more people show up so that it's even more crowded.

[XFD]

XFD: I dont quiet understand your idea. I doubt well be able to change but even if we dont im willing to be things will go smoother next year.

Very simple version: If too many people come for the content offered, cut the content into two halves. Serve the first half to Kumoricon A, serve the second half to Kumoricon B. Kumoricon A is hosted at this hotel. B at a different hotel.

[xxxchihiroxxx]

XFD: that is a good idea : o it would make the other building more useful and get a smaller crowd in the main building and even the two out.

Lychee: we can hope, I heard from some one in the dealers hall thats what we need to do to even have a hope of getting out of it (why i told you today xD)

[gladimus]

Don't worry, I'm planning to write up a nice long review and send it to the hilton as well. But it can't just be me, we all have to work together, so maybe if you guys are willing I can quote you guys in the complaint. And please, send your own complaints too! If they know we had a terrible time thanks to their staff, and if we show concern for the numbers growing larger, perhaps they will realize they need to let us out of this contract.

[xxxchihiroxxx]

if not then the staff will more than likley at least improve their attitude towards us.

[lychee-twist]

XFD: that is a good idea : o it would make the other building more useful and get a smaller crowd in the main building and even the two out.

Lychee: we can hope, I heard from some one in the dealers hall thats what we need to do to even have a hope of getting out of it (why i told you today xD)

Hey, honestly, if both parties know clearly of the danger an the dissatisfaction perhaps they can break it. It was so clearly a pain for the hotel staff to deal with. At the very least if we can't they can better for next time.

Gladimus, I'm glad to hear it. And I agree! We all need to, and I will stress this: PLEASE BE POLITE. No "Your hotel was bullsh**" and the like. They won't want to read it.
At the very least they'll be far more aware of our needs and help accordingly I hope.

[gladimus]

And if we absolutely have to stay in the hilton next year, PLEASE, at least have signs and more clear directions. And instead of sending people away when they go down stairs to a door they can't pass through, have someone at the top to explain that and put a clear sign explaining that that particular way wont lead to 'insert location here'. That way people will have only themselves to blame if they go that way.

This area of portland is scary, and the building is very hectic inside, the small perimeter and the stairs and elevators in such locations makes it all the more confusing! The maps were unclear, it needs to be made VERY clear that there are separate buildings! Put the maps for each building on a different page, and put it in big bold letters at the top which building is what. And label the schedule like that too, split it off so it says something like Building A events and Building B.

And because photoshoot areas are further away, we might need a general map of that particular area in portland, and some advice about the homeless people or maybe some warnings. These people really can get very invasive and creepy, and when our safety feels threatened then the event has no right to take place if it puts us in such situations.

The idea people have about splitting the events more evenly between the building is a great idea, it would definitely cause less crowding. Panels and video viewing and even the AMV contest should be in the executive, while the masquerade and cosplay contest and anything requiring a stage stays in the ballroom.

I know I have a ton of ideas for making this work, but I wouldn't be able to join in the volunteer staff since I get stressed too easily XD All I can do is post as much input as I can and hope for the best.

I still feel terrible that I had to show THIS year's convention of all years to my boyfriend as a first impression. We're lucky to see eachother twice a year right now, and when he saved up and went through a lot to come here to experience the convention I'd been praising for 3 years, he didn't like it. And I had to feel ashamed that the one year I brought him was the worst one. And I don't know when he'll ever be able to come back for kumoricon, or if he even would want to take the risk of having another terrible experience.

Say as much as you want, but there is no excuse for this.

This isn't the first time the con was in a new building, so that excuse wont work, it was poorly planned, period.

[Yugure]

I do think if we have to use this location again than kumoricon is going to have to insist that the staff at the hilton have more training prior to the event on how to handle con goers.  Most of the interactions I saw between hotel staff and con-goers was negative.  The staff would yell and generally treat the con-goers as children and had inappropriate body language, facial expressions, and tone for dealing with guests.  I can understand that they were overwhelm by the numbers and the excitement and loudness of the con-goers, but they still need to polite.   Now sometimes their actions were appropriate, but still the manner in which it was done was not. 
Also: I'm betting that staff was not prepared at all for the type of convention we are, although we probably don't have as many drunks as some other types of cons.

On a positive note most of the con staff was great with exception of one for me.  Most of the con's staff were really considerate and helpful. Thanks guys!

Yes, there were some questionable types hanging outside the hotel, though I don't know what the hotel and con staff could do about it.  It was pretty upsetting to me because there are so many minors at the con and some of the costumes us ladies wear while fine within the con could cause some uncomfortable leering or comments outside the con (I know from the conversations inside the women's bathroom that some of the ladies had some encounters that made them uneasy or feel threatened). So yes I wasn't happy with those people hanging around the con space.

 Escalators really need to be off during peak times, I saw too many near accidents. 


We can't really move back to a smaller venue as fond as I am of some of our previous sites.  The convention center is the best once we are done with the hilton contract.  I'll still be going next year in the hope that it will be better plus I have this little track record of have not missing a single kumoricon since the very first one in Eugene.

[soundninja12]

All of the problems I had were with the hotel, staff (not our wonderful kumo staff) and the actual building.
The staff of the hotel was rude, and disrespectful. They thought for some strange reason that the normal hotel guests were more important than us. We paid too.
Another was that the building was just too hard to navigate. I had issues making it from point A to point B, and my timing (as always) would have been terrible without me getting lost.

My last thing is, my bag got stolen. I left the convention crying because in that bag was my Renge cosplay, wig, and a few chibi dolls. I put a lot of love in to those things, and it was not ok for whoever stole it to steal it. If it wasn't for my great friends (thanks Cloudy, Demony, Megan, Bri, Teddy, Ari, Konan, Mikki, Griff, Mini-man, Sahara, Coleen, my roomies, and anyone I forgot) I would never want to come back.

[Sayda]

I have to agree with everything in this thread. I was disappointed, and the hotel rooms were tiny.

@Gladimus - I actually spoke to hotel staff last night about how they were treating us. The two staff members that I spoke to seemed completely unaware that anything bad was going on, but had definitely heard plenty of stories coming from multiple sources. I also pointed out to them how I felt like we were being treated like cattle, as well as freaks, rather then their guests. They both apologized and said that they didn't know that's how we felt (Although I can't imagine how they couldn't have known that.) and that they would try working something out / discussing it in the meeting they were going to be holding after the convention ended.

I'm not really sure how much to heart they took my complaint, but I also stressed that I understood that they had never hosted something like this, and that there are con goers out there that are much more eccentric then others. They seemed to appreciate that I somewhat understood their side of the story, as well.

Still, that doesn't give them any reason to treat their guests--or anyone like how they treated us.

[Lynx]

There was a lot of important debate and arguement that went on after everyone left the con. The rant and rave was actually very eye opening to me. I was about to leave the con with downed hopes and dislike towards the hotel and such but as time progressed and more information was revealed about the hotel and con situation, I left with a much better feeling and a sense of guilt towards being angry at the hotel people.

To be honest, I don't think I could be all that happy either with having myself going to be laid off from work due to lack of guests.

But beyond that, there was an entire 2 hour run of this Rant and Rave. It was amazing. There were discussions of what was going on with the sound sets, how registration was handled, line guidance, why people were being so uptight. And so many more things. I really wish everyone stayed for it. I mean it. It was a truly enlightening experience.

A MESSEGE TO ALL STAFF HELPING DEALING WITH ELEVATORS

Thank you. So much for all your help. You've spent countless trips, up and down the elevator from hell. Contending with the heat, dealing with angry cosplayers and guests alike, and sorting people out to try and keep things flowing. i'm grateful you were there to ensure that there were less instances where there were jackass cosplayers who decided to push all the buttons for each level postponing travel for everyone.

[Asylymescapeie]

Hey I counted the people from con that were kicked out of the executive tower on the second night and uhh...48 people were kicked out for just about nothing. The hotel staff completely didn't care. There was a couple haveing s@$ on the dance floor at the mascarade ball and they didn't even do anything to syop it and I heard that the sakura con chair for next year left the con early because of the managements treatment of con members.

[Memoryless]

This was my first convention, and I was really disappointed. It was very difficult to get where we needed to go. I'd prefer a few large floors than twenty-three, it was just too much. It was almost impossible to get an elevator, and when one did arrive, a couple times the staff said there wasn't any more room, despite there being a nice chunk of empty space in the middle. I can understand hotel policy, but the weight limit was three-thousand pounds, and with so many people needing to get somewhere...
People also got in the way a lot, so I can see why staff of Kumoricon and the Hilton itself would be irritated. Constantly they had to ask people to move out of the walkway. Shouldn't that be common sense? I also disliked people walking between me and the person I was trying to get a picture of, very rude. Speaking of pictures, I hate it when you request one, and the person or group just sort of ignores you. It's cool if they don't want a picture to be taken of them, but they could at least say they're busy or something. I followed a group all the way up the stairs because they said they had more members, and then they just left me there. ._. ;;
That's...more of an issue with random people, though.

Back to the location itself, I don't think I really like the downtown area very much. There were a lot of panhandlers and smokers roaming around. I don't dislike bums themselves, but some were very pushy and sort of creepy when they asked for money. My grandmother threw out an unpleasant scenario, and it happened today, exactly as she said. An old lady called me "cutie-pie", and then asked for spare change.

The map was also confusing for me, but that may just be a personal issue.

Overall, I wasn't impressed. I did have fun, but there was a little too much stress for something that's supposed to be amazingly fun. I don't think I want to attend next year if the Hilton is going to be the location, unless the panel placement and the like could be made easier to get to.

EDIT: I also felt that everything was jammed into Saturday, which left a lot of empty blocks on the rest of the days.

[I'm worn out, so I apologize if anything in this doesn't make sense and the like.]

[Hazuza]

There was a couple haveing s@$ on the dance floor at the mascarade ball and they didn't even do anything to syop it

Aw, can't believe I missed that.

[TanisNikana]

My complaints are the standard ones that everyone else has, terrible hotel, terrible (hotel) staff.

Everything else was pretty shiny.

[sabata]

This was my first con, and i was looking forward to it........i didn't sleep at all untila bout 6 am the night before.........and frankly, it was a lot of fun for randomness, like i was with a group just yelling, I GOT A JAR OF DIIIRT and then the rick roll conga line. that was all fun. but the lines (like the elevators) took about 20 minutes just to get to one. and since i was a /\/008 i had no clue what was going on, what to do, and where to go for this. it was a lot of fun in the end. i got a lot of pimp stuff. (entered with 140 came out with 11....dollars) but it was really hectic. the cosplayers were nice, some of the staff i had fun with (i gave away about 4 boxes worth of pocky to staff) but there were some really mean people...........>< i know it's kinda whiney, but still. and the layout of the whole thing was a little weird. i thought the panels were all in one building ( the one accross the street) and i got lost multiple times. the map didn't make much sense, and a lot of the times, the panels went off topic (of course it was still fun) the majority of the time i was in the vendor area, just walking back and forth trying to entertain myself and my friend. but oh well, i think i will most likely go back next year. as long as it isn't at the hilton. and if it is sunny. my akatsuki shoes i made got soaked and contained more water then a water bottle. (i checked it out. it was scary) in the end i just bought some from a vendor for 20 bucks. one of the seams is already ripping. T.T

[makichan]

Yeeaaaahhh, so... overall, I'm disappointed in the hotel. If it's going to be there again, my group and I might not be attending, which is unfortunate because we've been attending since 2004.
I don't want to even think about how crowded it will be and, to be honest, it's in a scary public area filled with homeless people who are constantly claiming certain areas as their own (which is horrible for photo shoots). I also witnessed something that I thought I'd share with everyone.
When a friend and I went to locate her missing glasses in the lost and found section a masked cosplayer was yanked into the room by a very rude hotel staff member. The way he gripped him looked as if he had stolen something, so I figured that there must have been foul play but I wasn't sure. Then the staff guy rudely said aloud, "I was told that there were to be no masks in the hotel! Is this true?" With which the con staff replied, "only on the main floor is that prohibited." So the man insultingly shoved the cosplayer out the door and said the the con staff, "I'm sorry I'm such a dick. I'm just tired!"

WTF?
SRSLY? NOT OKAY. AT. ALL.
We may have unique interests but we're still human beings and paying customers. I don't want any part in supporting the Portland Hilton. Not now, not ever.

I love my fellow cosplayers and look forward to this event every year. It's not the con's fault that my group had a difficult time, but it will be a big mistake if it's happening here again. I don't want to even imagine it next year. Thank God for con friends and new faces or else I wouldn't have enjoyed myself.

[fleur_fraise]

I went to kcon last year on Monday only, and so this was technically my first con.

I feel like a minority here, but I rarely saw hotel staff, and when I did, they weren't rude to me. I tried to be quiet and out of the way, and for the most part, people were nice to me.
There are two situations in particular that stick in my mind:
Pre-reg day- I was chilling in line with LtCommanderRichie, and the line suddenly starts to move very rapidly. As we're getting to the front of the line, this staff guy suddenly runs out and yells "EVERYONE IN LINE FOLLOW ME," only to literally run us around the entire hotel. So the two of us run around the hotel, only to be greeted by more con staff in the lobby, who tell us, rather rudely, to go back upstairs and get in line. We go back upstairs and are told that the line is closed, and the end is now wrapping all the way around the hotel. The two of us complained and demanded answers from several staff members, only to get "lol this is what we do" and "I have no clue", until they told the door guard to let the two of us in but no one else.
Sunday- My friends and I met up at around 9 or 10, and were trying to find a place for us to talk and decide what to do. We were downstairs, near the women's bathroom, only to be yelled at that they were clearing the area and we had to move. We moved upstairs, where it was less crowded, only to be told, again, that they were clearing the area and we had to move. This left only the main lobby, which was crammed full of people because no one could go anywhere else. We ended up just leaving the hotel.

I agree that the Hilton was a bad choice of a venue, but I'll be returning next year.

[IchigoBunny]

The first day was terrible for my boyfriend and I. We were being pushed around by the hotel staff and they were being so rude trying to get us to move out of the way. Even the Kumoricon staff didnt know what was going on with the Rave the first night. we were in the front of the line on accident because we thought it was the back and no one told us!! we didnt even attend the dance. My boyfriend and i are debating on going to it next year. we need a new venue that isnt level after level in a tall complicated hotel. i loved the red lion on the river front that was awesome!!

[IchigoBunny]

The first day was terrible for my boyfriend and I. We were being pushed around by the hotel staff and they were being so rude trying to get us to move out of the way. Even the Kumoricon staff didnt know what was going on with the Rave the first night. we were in the front of the line on accident because we thought it was the back and no one told us!! we didnt even attend the dance. My boyfriend and i are debating on going to it next year. we need a new venue that isnt level after level in a tall complicated hotel. i loved the red lion on the river front that was awesome!!

[sabata]

I was kinda of freaked out about the number of homeless people congregating around the hilton. i think that all the benches in the back entrance was covered in homeless.....ness....thing-word-that-would-finish-this and they were a little rude about it. i know they are just trying to get some money, but it's a little annoying trying to get through fellow cospalyers, only to again try to get through homelesss people.

[misamisa]

I'm glad nobody got hurt though.
If you think about it, even walking to get dinner at night in Portland is kind of dangerous. O.O;;

My friends and I put up with our share of weirdos when wandering outside of the convention space (I was asked to make somebody's hentai dreams come true, ogled by many strange men, screamed at by cars driving by, among other things), and that was one thing.

But I am glad that the hotel guest who screamed at us, called us f***ing freaks (about 10 times), threatened to beat us, and after exiting the elevator, lunged back in and gestured like he was going to reach for a weapon did not hurt anybody.

I have wandered the downtown Portland area many times, and am used to the people to be encountered (and aware that things like pink wigs attract attention), so those experiences were taken with a grain of salt, but I never expected to be threatened in the con hotel.

Awesome.

[IchigoBunny]

I was kinda of freaked out about the number of homeless people congregating around the hilton. i think that all the benches in the back entrance was covered in homeless.....ness....thing-word-that-would-finish-this and they were a little rude about it. i know they are just trying to get some money, but it's a little annoying trying to get through fellow cospalyers, only to again try to get through homelesss people.

i know my boyfriend and i had the same issues we were freaked out actually. another issue we had was some religious guys handing out fliers and they wouldnt take no for an answer.

[Hazuza]

There was a lot of important debate and arguement that went on after everyone left the con. The rant and rave was actually very eye opening to me. I was about to leave the con with downed hopes and dislike towards the hotel and such but as time progressed and more information was revealed about the hotel and con situation, I left with a much better feeling and a sense of guilt towards being angry at the hotel people.

To be honest, I don't think I could be all that happy either with having myself going to be laid off from work due to lack of guests.

But beyond that, there was an entire 2 hour run of this Rant and Rave. It was amazing. There were discussions of what was going on with the sound sets, how registration was handled, line guidance, why people were being so uptight. And so many more things. I really wish everyone stayed for it. I mean it. It was a truly enlightening experience.

I really wanted to attend but had to leave. I hope it'll get up on youtube soon. :T

[sabata]

I was kinda of freaked out about the number of homeless people congregating around the hilton. i think that all the benches in the back entrance was covered in homeless.....ness....thing-word-that-would-finish-this and they were a little rude about it. i know they are just trying to get some money, but it's a little annoying trying to get through fellow cospalyers, only to again try to get through homelesss people.

i know my boyfriend and i had the same issues we were freaked out actually. another issue we had was some religious guys handing out fliers and they wouldnt take no for an answer.

I had a problem with how the people in the gaming area seemed to hog all the systems. i got to play rockband twice, some weird fighting game where it was all girls (which were all very slow. and not cool besides the one with the gel thing. i kept yelling at my opponent saying THE GLOB WINS) and the computer for a while. i decided to leave at about 3 today because i was so tired of walking around the con with nothing to do

[Mitsukai Mizu Amaya]

But I am glad that the hotel guest who screamed at us, called us f***ing freaks (about 10 times), threatened to beat us, and after exiting the elevator, lunged back in and gestured like he was going to reach for a weapon did not hurt anybody.

Seriously? That's really not good; that's downright frightening.

I also had a problem with the religious guys in the square on pre-reg day. Now, I have nothing against religion in any way... but seriously, a no means a goddamn NO. There was this guy passing out flowers and we all for the most part either told him no or took the flier and threw it out. He came back and tried to pass out more fliers and tried to convert some of us(I remember one of us saying they were Wiccan and the guy still didn't leave us alone).

[~boogiepop~]

I had a problem with how the people in the gaming area seemed to hog all the systems. i got to play rockband twice, some weird fighting game where it was all girls (which were all very slow. and not cool besides the one with the gel thing. i kept yelling at my opponent saying THE GLOB WINS) and the computer for a while. i decided to leave at about 3 today because i was so tired of walking around the con with nothing to do

That is Arcana Heart if you were curious

[sabata]

But I am glad that the hotel guest who screamed at us, called us f***ing freaks (about 10 times), threatened to beat us, and after exiting the elevator, lunged back in and gestured like he was going to reach for a weapon did not hurt anybody.

Seriously? That's really not good; that's downright frightening.

I also had a problem with the religious guys in the square on pre-reg day. Now, I have nothing against religion in any way... but seriously, a no means a goddamn NO. There was this guy passing out flowers and we all for the most part either told him no or took the flier and threw it out. He came back and tried to pass out more fliers and tried to convert some of us(I remember one of us saying they were Wiccan and the guy still didn't leave us alone).

I REALLY have a problem with people trying to convert others. sure, you might want to spread an amazing religion, (or so YOU think) but it really doesn't help anyone if you just won't take no for an answer. I had to go to a theater on saturday to get some change, and had a problem with someone passing out fliers. i just wanted to go get my some pockys. OM NOM NOM and she wouldn't leve me awone

[IchigoBunny]

I was kinda of freaked out about the number of homeless people congregating around the hilton. i think that all the benches in the back entrance was covered in homeless.....ness....thing-word-that-would-finish-this and they were a little rude about it. i know they are just trying to get some money, but it's a little annoying trying to get through fellow cospalyers, only to again try to get through homelesss people.

i know my boyfriend and i had the same issues we were freaked out actually. another issue we had was some religious guys handing out fliers and they wouldnt take no for an answer.

I had a problem with how the people in the gaming area seemed to hog all the systems. i got to play rockband twice, some weird fighting game where it was all girls (which were all very slow. and not cool besides the one with the gel thing. i kept yelling at my opponent saying THE GLOB WINS) and the computer for a while. i decided to leave at about 3 today because i was so tired of walking around the con with nothing to do

oh i know. i got to the con this morning around i would say 10-1030ish and we shopped for a while and then ran upstairs to see what was going on and we felt bored and were ready for the real world again. we left at 12 today. and basically only shopped. im feeling a bit depressed about this years con. i was trying to change my boyfriends mind about cons and this didnt do any justice. this was my 5th year and i havent ever had it this bad.

[IchigoBunny]

But I am glad that the hotel guest who screamed at us, called us f***ing freaks (about 10 times), threatened to beat us, and after exiting the elevator, lunged back in and gestured like he was going to reach for a weapon did not hurt anybody.

Seriously? That's really not good; that's downright frightening.

I also had a problem with the religious guys in the square on pre-reg day. Now, I have nothing against religion in any way... but seriously, a no means a goddamn NO. There was this guy passing out flowers and we all for the most part either told him no or took the flier and threw it out. He came back and tried to pass out more fliers and tried to convert some of us(I remember one of us saying they were Wiccan and the guy still didn't leave us alone).

my boyfriend was ganna get really mean with them because they wouldnt quit.

[Mitsukai Mizu Amaya]

But I am glad that the hotel guest who screamed at us, called us f***ing freaks (about 10 times), threatened to beat us, and after exiting the elevator, lunged back in and gestured like he was going to reach for a weapon did not hurt anybody.

Seriously? That's really not good; that's downright frightening.

I also had a problem with the religious guys in the square on pre-reg day. Now, I have nothing against religion in any way... but seriously, a no means a goddamn NO. There was this guy passing out flowers and we all for the most part either told him no or took the flier and threw it out. He came back and tried to pass out more fliers and tried to convert some of us(I remember one of us saying they were Wiccan and the guy still didn't leave us alone).

my boyfriend was ganna get really mean with them because they wouldnt quit.

Really? I was extremely uncomfortable(I was in PJ Garnet at the time. xD for 50s/60s lingerie) with what they were doing. It just didn't have the guts to get really pissed at them(I did tell them to just back the hell off, however).

[sabata]

I really want to say that this was the best con i ever went to. (which it's the only one so i can't really back it up) but i think the only good panel i went to was the randomness panel. we got to tell pick-up lines
(mine was: hey baby, your so hot your hotness level, IT'S OVER 9000!!!)
which was a lot of fun to watch and hang out. i saw all the cool cosplays, and today saw the one i was looking for all day, HASEO FROM .HACK//ROOTS, and also saw a medic and kept yelling MEDIC whenever he went by. and i saw him alot

[IchigoBunny]

But I am glad that the hotel guest who screamed at us, called us f***ing freaks (about 10 times), threatened to beat us, and after exiting the elevator, lunged back in and gestured like he was going to reach for a weapon did not hurt anybody.

Seriously? That's really not good; that's downright frightening.

I also had a problem with the religious guys in the square on pre-reg day. Now, I have nothing against religion in any way... but seriously, a no means a goddamn NO. There was this guy passing out flowers and we all for the most part either told him no or took the flier and threw it out. He came back and tried to pass out more fliers and tried to convert some of us(I remember one of us saying they were Wiccan and the guy still didn't leave us alone).

my boyfriend was ganna get really mean with them because they wouldnt quit.

Really? I was extremely uncomfortable(I was in PJ Garnet at the time. xD for 50s/60s lingerie) with what they were doing. It just didn't have the guts to get really pissed at them(I did tell them to just back the hell off, however).

lol my boyfriend was ichigo from bleach with a boken sword on him so he was being protective.

[misamisa]

I have to admit I had a bit issue with the sheer amount of out-of-control and just plain RUDE unaccompanied minors.  No offense to those in the under-18 crowd who know how to act like civil human beings,  but a lot of the younger crowd seemed to be doing absoutely EVERYTHING they could to give us all a bad name.  It got so frustrating that I found myself muttering "fricking Yellow Badges..." with disdain.

A few things witnessed:

- Young kids making out and exploring their sexuality on the sidewalks in front to the hotel.
- Young kids sprawled out on the sidewalk like beached whales.  My friend politely said, "excuse me, we're walking here..." and they rudely said "yeah, you DO that", did not care AT ALL that they were blocking the way on the already crowded sidewalks.
- Young kids screaming obscenities at other con-goers as well as people in public
- Young kids riding the elevators, pushing every button and snapping pictures of people whenever the doors opened on a floor.
- Young kids running around asking for hugs and dancing on people (when asked to stop, they did not)
- Young kids screaming about rape in public in front of non-convention goers.

Did anyone else feel like this year's con was over-run with out-of-control preteens with no consideration for others?  It was very frustrating.

[IchigoBunny]

I really want to say that this was the best con i ever went to. (which it's the only one so i can't really back it up) but i think the only good panel i went to was the randomness panel. we got to tell pick-up lines
(mine was: hey baby, your so hot your hotness level, IT'S OVER 9000!!!)
which was a lot of fun to watch and hang out. i saw all the cool cosplays, and today saw the one i was looking for all day, HASEO FROM .HACK//ROOTS, and also saw a medic and kept yelling MEDIC whenever he went by. and i saw him alot

unfortunately i was part of the panel and i didnt make it to it because i couldnt find it. TT.TT

[sabata]

- Young kids making out and exploring their sexuality on the sidewalks in front to the hotel.
- Young kids sprawled out on the sidewalk like beached whales.  My friend politely said, "excuse me, we're walking here..." and they rudely said "yeah, you DO that", did not care AT ALL that they were blocking the way on the already crowded sidewalks.
- Young kids screaming obscenities at other con-goers as well as people in public
- Young kids riding the elevators, pushing every button and snapping pictures of people whenever the doors opened on a floor.
- Young kids running around asking for hugs and dancing on people (when asked to stop, they did not)
- Young kids screaming about rape in public in front of non-convention goers.
eheheh. sorry about that. that was only one time i said that. and my friend was doing some anime reference dance i didn't know that popped my "don't get too close to me" bubble

[Negima]

RECOMMENDATIONS
Definitely different hotel, since the Hilton was absolutely terrible (and if you haven't found that out, seriously read all the previous posts...)
I would suggest doing at one of these past hotels, since for me and my friends were were the BEST experiences of Kumoricon we had (out of the 6 years we have gone) I'm going to suggest WHY as well, that Kumoricon should be here.
Because if it is at the Hilton next year....a lot of con-goers will not attend (I will be one of them)

Double Tree (Portland, OR)
This was a nice location, it had food nearby, and a park. It seemed like everyone had a good time last year there, and it was very nice location. It had shade, and it was slightly secluded from "normal people".

Unfortunately I hear we're too big for them now

Red Lion Hotel (Janzen Beach, OR)
I know this was a very hard hotel for the staff, but it was the best BEST Kumoricon I had ever attended. The locating was AMAZING, beautiful scenery, amazing rooms and spaces. And I never once had to deal with anyone who was rude, or packed rooms/hallways. It was a very large convention space. It also was a great location. It was literally the best Kumoricon, ever *(all my friends agreed)
It was amazing, because it was friendly, and just perfect. If you have it here, I will definitely attend in less than a heartbeat.

Nooooooooo nononononononono
They double-booked us with a wedding and changed some of the agreements DURING the convention.

Hilton (Vancouver, WA)
I know the downtown Hilton was a pain, but this one was again, a wonderful location. It was VERY SPACIOUS outside, to the point where it was so large that people could roam off and do their own thing. We didn't disturb others with or antics, and they appreciated our efforts and cosplays. It was friendly, and very nice. Though there were some hiccups, it was a very nice convention. Though it is out of the way, it was worth it because it was very spacious and friendly.

I wasn't there so I can't say anything about this.

[IchigoBunny]

I have to admit I had a bit issue with the sheer amount of out-of-control and just plain RUDE unaccompanied minors.  No offense to those in the under-18 crowd who know how to act like civil human beings,  but a lot of the younger crowd seemed to be doing absoutely EVERYTHING they could to give us all a bad name.  It got so frustrating that I found myself muttering "fricking Yellow Badges..." with disdain.

A few things witnessed:

- Young kids making out and exploring their sexuality on the sidewalks in front to the hotel.
- Young kids sprawled out on the sidewalk like beached whales.  My friend politely said, "excuse me, we're walking here..." and they rudely said "yeah, you DO that", did not care AT ALL that they were blocking the way on the already crowded sidewalks.
- Young kids screaming obscenities at other con-goers as well as people in public
- Young kids riding the elevators, pushing every button and snapping pictures of people whenever the doors opened on a floor.
- Young kids running around asking for hugs and dancing on people (when asked to stop, they did not)
- Young kids screaming about rape in public in front of non-convention goers.

Did anyone else feel like this year's con was over-run with out-of-control preteens with no consideration for others?  It was very frustrating.

YES YES YES!!!! This was a huge prob this year and its only been getting worse. unfortunately they think they can get away with it because their parents aren't here and they are in public. ... sometimes things like that are funny but there is a point where they need to stop its only funny when the people know how to stop. and the elevator thing was ****. that isnt funny when its that packed. no wonder it took so long!

[TanisNikana]

I really want to say that this was the best con i ever went to. (which it's the only one so i can't really back it up) but i think the only good panel i went to was the randomness panel. we got to tell pick-up lines
(mine was: hey baby, your so hot your hotness level, IT'S OVER 9000!!!)
which was a lot of fun to watch and hang out. i saw all the cool cosplays, and today saw the one i was looking for all day, HASEO FROM .HACK//ROOTS, and also saw a medic and kept yelling MEDIC whenever he went by. and i saw him alot

Mustash was butt-hurt.

[IchigoBunny]

RECOMMENDATIONS
Definitely different hotel, since the Hilton was absolutely terrible (and if you haven't found that out, seriously read all the previous posts...)
I would suggest doing at one of these past hotels, since for me and my friends were were the BEST experiences of Kumoricon we had (out of the 6 years we have gone) I'm going to suggest WHY as well, that Kumoricon should be here.
Because if it is at the Hilton next year....a lot of con-goers will not attend (I will be one of them)

Double Tree (Portland, OR)
This was a nice location, it had food nearby, and a park. It seemed like everyone had a good time last year there, and it was very nice location. It had shade, and it was slightly secluded from "normal people".

Unfortunately I hear we're too big for them now

Red Lion Hotel (Janzen Beach, OR)
I know this was a very hard hotel for the staff, but it was the best BEST Kumoricon I had ever attended. The locating was AMAZING, beautiful scenery, amazing rooms and spaces. And I never once had to deal with anyone who was rude, or packed rooms/hallways. It was a very large convention space. It also was a great location. It was literally the best Kumoricon, ever *(all my friends agreed)
It was amazing, because it was friendly, and just perfect. If you have it here, I will definitely attend in less than a heartbeat.

Nooooooooo nononononononono
They double-booked us with a wedding and changed some of the agreements DURING the convention.

Hilton (Vancouver, WA)
I know the downtown Hilton was a pain, but this one was again, a wonderful location. It was VERY SPACIOUS outside, to the point where it was so large that people could roam off and do their own thing. We didn't disturb others with or antics, and they appreciated our efforts and cosplays. It was friendly, and very nice. Though there were some hiccups, it was a very nice convention. Though it is out of the way, it was worth it because it was very spacious and friendly.

I wasn't there so I can't say anything about this.

I agree with the first one! find a better venue. and i honestly didnt know about the janzen beach. i gotta say the vancouver place was nice. i was also in the hotel so i dont know about other arrangements.
I wonder if an area with not as many buildings would be nice and somewhere not so "downtown." That area attracts hobos and people you dont want to be around.

[sabata]

i was on the 3rd floor (after i left the how to: weapons panel) and waiting for the elevator. and some teens were pushing buttons and i clearly head "GUYS, lets crowd around the front of the elevator when it comes up so no one can get out!"

[xxxchihiroxxx]

Misa Misa:

as an underage I take no offense to any of that whatsoever ._.
I did joke about sex and rape a bit with my friends but we didnt YELL rape at the top of our lungs xD I honestly didnt see much of what you described, and I'm VERY sorry you did : / My group snot really into that stuff i guess? when we comence in general fagotry its ussualy just us playing around and joking with each other, more than often when were alone in our hotel room.

it is sad that a lot of the younger crowd are so disrespectful towards others, and I am very sorry again ) : I dont think I took part in much if any of what you said above but Im pretty positive it was there even if I didnt see it.

[misamisa]

YES YES YES!!!! This was a huge prob this year and its only been getting worse. unfortunately they think they can get away with it because their parents aren't here and they are in public. ... sometimes things like that are funny but there is a point where they need to stop its only funny when the people know how to stop. and the elevator thing was ****. that isnt funny when its that packed. no wonder it took so long!

I think most of these kids' parents would be horrified if they witnessed what their children were doing in a public setting.  At least, I would hope so.

Something needs to be done to regulate the out-of-line underage attendees.  I didn't feel like it was my place, but there were times when I felt it was necessary to make it known that what they were doing was NOT okay, like telling them that they really needed to stop playing in the elevators so other guests could get around easily.  Some friends were told by kids in the elevator that they should take the stairs, because the elevators were going to be stopping on every floor.

[sabata]

I really do need to have gotten a group, i had one planned, we saw each other, but never actually did anything. i still has some fun. and i'm sure it would have been more if i had done panels, it's just the good ones were really early, or really late. and i'm pretty sure i can't just stall for 8 hours to make a teddy bear

[Mitsukai Mizu Amaya]

About the Red Lion... we were double booked with a wedding THIS year.(Well, part of one anyway) Some people heard that there was a wedding, and I was getting congradulations >.>(probably the giant white wedding dress and veil for Yuna? xD)

By the way, my pick-up lines were "Will you be my guardian?", "I have an airship; wanna ride?", and another I can't remember. xD

Back on topic, I am seventeen, eighteen in January, so am techinically a minor, but I know what you're saying. Way too much rudeness in some of the younger congoers; though that's not saying they all were. I knew some pretty awesome litt;e cosplayers myself ^^(I so want a picture of that little Zidane*Game one, not the Amano one with gold trim. I have a bunch iof her. xD*)

[sabata]

OMG i remember seeing you in the random panel. you kept standing up, and some staff peep kept fixing your dress. LOL

[IchigoBunny]

About the Red Lion... we were double booked with a wedding THIS year.(Well, part of one anyway) Some people heard that there was a wedding, and I was getting congradulations >.>(probably the giant white wedding dress and veil for Yuna? xD)

By the way, my pick-up lines were "Will you be my guardian?", "I have an airship; wanna ride?", and another I can't remember. xD

Back on topic, I am seventeen, eighteen in January, so am techinically a minor, but I know what you're saying. Way too much rudeness in some of the younger congoers; though that's not saying they all were. I knew some pretty awesome litt;e cosplayers myself ^^(I so want a picture of that little Zidane*Game one, not the Amano one with gold trim. I have a bunch iof her. xD*)

the little ones were darling but the early teens were a pain.

[sabata]

i saw the cutest wittle guy. he was dressed up as gin and he kept squinting his eyes. it was SOOOO KAWAII

[Yugure]

I have to admit I had a bit issue with the sheer amount of out-of-control and just plain RUDE unaccompanied minors.  No offense to those in the under-18 crowd who know how to act like civil human beings,  but a lot of the younger crowd seemed to be doing absoutely EVERYTHING they could to give us all a bad name.  It got so frustrating that I found myself muttering "fricking Yellow Badges..." with disdain.

A few things witnessed:

- Young kids making out and exploring their sexuality on the sidewalks in front to the hotel.
- Young kids sprawled out on the sidewalk like beached whales.  My friend politely said, "excuse me, we're walking here..." and they rudely said "yeah, you DO that", did not care AT ALL that they were blocking the way on the already crowded sidewalks.
- Young kids screaming obscenities at other con-goers as well as people in public
- Young kids riding the elevators, pushing every button and snapping pictures of people whenever the doors opened on a floor.
- Young kids running around asking for hugs and dancing on people (when asked to stop, they did not)
- Young kids screaming about rape in public in front of non-convention goers.

Did anyone else feel like this year's con was over-run with out-of-control preteens with no consideration for others?  It was very frustrating.

Oh good lord, yes.. I saw some of this stuff.  Particularly the kids making out, which I saw in the line for the vendors area.  -_- honestly not appropriate.  There was also a lot of unnecessary shouting and screaming which sometimes disrupted the panels. 

[sabata]

i did see a lot of making out, and all of them had passes. i was thinking, soooo your paying 40 bucks to be sitting outside and anime convention making out wearing normal clothing............WHADEFUH?

[EveofAbyss]

I have to admit I had a bit issue with the sheer amount of out-of-control and just plain RUDE unaccompanied minors.  No offense to those in the under-18 crowd who know how to act like civil human beings,  but a lot of the younger crowd seemed to be doing absoutely EVERYTHING they could to give us all a bad name.  It got so frustrating that I found myself muttering "fricking Yellow Badges..." with disdain.

A few things witnessed:

- Young kids making out and exploring their sexuality on the sidewalks in front to the hotel.
- Young kids sprawled out on the sidewalk like beached whales.  My friend politely said, "excuse me, we're walking here..." and they rudely said "yeah, you DO that", did not care AT ALL that they were blocking the way on the already crowded sidewalks.
- Young kids screaming obscenities at other con-goers as well as people in public
- Young kids riding the elevators, pushing every button and snapping pictures of people whenever the doors opened on a floor.
- Young kids running around asking for hugs and dancing on people (when asked to stop, they did not)
- Young kids screaming about rape in public in front of non-convention goers.

Did anyone else feel like this year's con was over-run with out-of-control preteens with no consideration for others?  It was very frustrating.

Oh good lord, yes.. I saw some of this stuff.  Particularly the kids making out, which I saw in the line for the vendors area.  -_- honestly not appropriate.  There was also a lot of unnecessary shouting and screaming which sometimes disrupted the panels.  

Exactly this. The general age (or more importantly, the maturity level) of the Kumoricon attendee seemed to drop disgustingly this year. The constant public antics were so bad (just simple out-of-control inanities) that I, like many others, felt more comfortable in my hotel room (and that's where I ended up spending most of my time, sadly). I don't even know how this could be fixed, other than...as harsh as this may sound, you have to admit the truth...kicking attendees out upon first or second offenses.

You have to admit...it would really be the perfect comb to filter out the ticks on the dog that is Kumoricon.

It just shows, you can't grant independence to some people, because they just can't handle it. I think independence must be earned, and perhaps that should be considered.

[sabata]

Woof? i never really got in trouble. no one got mad, except for one guy because i was trying to cheer him up. i ended up giving him one of those delicous sodas. and he said that i was handsdown his favorite after that

[reppy]

I didn't have too many negative run-ins with hotel staff.  I did have a couple of male staffers joking with me about my crossplay (I had just walked out of the restrooms.)  "Which bathroom do you use?  Male or female?"  I laughed and didn't really answer.  Don't remember what, or if I said anything.  Most likely just joking around with them and such, but I did remember that when I was in the bathroom, I couldn't get any water (or soap) to come out of the automatic dispensers.  So I told them, they made a joke saying maybe the dispensers couldn't tell if I was in the right bathroom.  But, they did seem at least genuinely concerned and immediately sent out a message to get it fixed.  At the time, I didn't think they were being jerks, but reading a lot of comments makes me wonder if they were.  All I know is at the time I wasn't offended.

Any time I ended up stopping for whatever reason in a spot where apparently I wasn't supposed to be, I was always quick to get out of the way if a staffer said we weren't supposed to be blocking it.  I would usually follow that up with a "I'm sorry," and they'd say "It's no problem."

Certain behavior by staff is completely unacceptable.  But try to remember all the people at the con that may have annoyed you.  Those kids that were talking too loudly and smarting off to everyone?  What makes you think they were any nicer towards staff?  So don't feel too insulted if a hotel staff member raises their voice at you.  They kind of have to, since it's incredibly loud.

The homeless were irritating to me.  I don't want to seem insensitive and say "be homeless somewhere else" but there were a few times where I felt unsafe in my crossplay and being panhandled.  I'm 24; I can only imagine how the young kids felt.

I also didn't much care for all the kids hanging out on the sidewalks, with their legs stretched out and stuff.  I was walking down them with a friend I met a the con and one of them dropped a plastic pop bottle. Well, it either dropped or fell.  Anyways, she picked it up and kind of made a little bit of an issue about it and one of them (reluctantly?) took it back.  (Personal note: I hate it when people litter.)  Then there was the kids making out.  OK, I understand you're young and in love and whatever.. personally, I don't want to see it.  I don't want to see 2 girls kissing, either.  Kiss in private.  Hold hands in public. XD

I might be in the minority but I actually preferred when the escalators were off.  I was always so paranoid that a part of my dress would get stuck and torn. ;___; This despite the fact that my feet were killing me and walking around on stairs didn't help things.  My feet aren't as important as my dress. xD

The hotel did seem really crowded.  And I wasn't even aware that panels were occuring in the other building. Which is probably my fault: I never bothered to look too much at the con pamphlet and wasn't there for opening ceremonies.

But for me, going to a convention is about making new friends and taking pictures of people in their cosplay.  The panels and all that is just the icing on the cake.

[DooFeRthePanda]

it was really horrible too because more homeless were hanging around us, barely anywhere to hang out, very unorganized(couldnt find my way through the hotel T___T) and we couldnt even rave...

[kit2kit]

well even though it was crowded and junk I still had a fun time : D

[catboy-trades]

I honestly had no problems whatsoever with Yojimbo. They were all very courteous and complimentary, and understood what was going on.

I don't know if this guy was Yojimbo or Staff but he kept coming into the panels I had in Panel 1 and 2 in the Executive tower.  He would ask if I needed anything.  I would say no because I didn't but wanted to make sure that at my adult panel I would have someone checking the doors.  The first time I asked he said he didn't know.  Second time I asked he said probably but he doesn't deal with that.

At my adult panel in the workshop room in the executive tower at 12:30 sunday night ( Catboys and Catgirls after dark) he came in... was rude and told me I couldn't let anyone in.  Then when I asked him if I could let someone in he looked at me like I was asking for him to do a somersault.  After the con goers came in he then proceeded to leave via the partition of workshop and panel 2 and said as he left, " F**king have fun you freaks!" then left.

Honestly I was shocked.  Granted I shouldn't have been.  Earlier that day I had been yelled at by staff several times... when I complained to the hotel staff about their security people I was told they would have the manager call me right back.  I waited an hour then called again.  They acted like there was no problem... I tried to get everything out to the manager and let them know how I felt and how I thought that as paying customers we should be treated better than cattle.

The manager then proceeded to blow me off.

As I left today I asked for a cart to come up and help with my groups stuff.  They said they would send one right up.
30 min later I called down to ask what was going on.  They said they were busy and I said that was alright I just wanted to make sure that I wouldn't get charged for another day if I couldn't get out of the room.  The hotel staff said no it was fine I wouldn't be charged.  The cart did show up... but it took nearly 2 hours for it to show up.  

That is fine... they were busy.

But when my group made it downstairs ( another 20 min of waiting for an elevator and being basically mocked by the yojimbo that were in the elevators going up and down.) we found that our cart wasn't there.  We asked front desk where it was... they didn't know they said to ask the concierge, we did and they said they didn't know and to ask front desk.

I then began to get angry.  I began to rant and rave about the entire weekend... how we were being treated and that I wanted a call in line to complain.  THE FRONT DESK REFUSED TO GIVE ME A NUMBER.  
After we searched the lobby we found it waiting for us on the street... no one around it except for 1 hotel staff for all the bags around him... and all the people waiting outside... I kept wondering how our stuff didn't get stolen.

So yeah.  I hated the hotel.  If I ever have to go back into the area again I will never stay there again.  I would rather stay in a hotel with roaches on the walls then at least I know what I am getting.  Not a hotel that charges you out the butt for stuff and then treats you like garbage.

Kumoricon... try to get the hell out of that hotel... please...

[Kaiware]

I felt a lot of sympathy for k-con staff this year.  I think you all did a fabulous job of dealing with a difficult situation & environment.  I didn't have any terrible interactions with hotel staff but there was definitely a negative and/or patronizing vibe coming from most of them (granted, the only time I've felt a hotel really was happy to have us was in vancouver!).  I hate to say it because I love k-con but I also questioned this year whether I would be back next year if we are in the same hotel as planned -- we are just too big for hotels that size now and without a good outdoor area to spill into, the crowding is even worse. 

I also hope we go back, when we can, to one of the previous hotels or the convention center (just how big do we need to be to do that, anyway?) Can't we share the space with someone?  Every event I've ever been to there hasn't been that big!

[LtCommanderRichie]

I also hope we go back, when we can, to one of the previous hotels or the convention center (just how big do we need to be to do that, anyway?)

We have to have an event size of at least 8,000 before Kumoricon can book the convention center.

[Rainfeather]

This is just ridiculous. I have to agree at the hotel's staff, they were yelling at everyone. Even if the line wasn't moving, they'd say "KEEP IT MOVING!" which was, to be honest, rude as eff. I do want to attend next year, the hotel rooms were nice, but the hotel staff just looked uptight as eff and security just looked angry all the time.

[Chibiorochimaru]

Agreed, things went better last year : / The staff gave some super rude looks too. Maybe it will atleast go better next year in '10 sense were stuck at the Hilton another year.

[Mitsukai Mizu Amaya]

Well, my biggest hope for next year is better weather. Wearing Trance Garnet will cover even less *sort of* then Wedding Yuna. xD

That and hopefully the Hilton will be better equiped for us.

[murder_of_raven]

would you rather have the police enforcing this or the con staff?

Umm... actually I'm pretty sure this isn't an either/or situation. I noticed an extreme amount of police officers whose job seemed to be solely enforcing hotel rules and controlling cosplayers (which brings me to my second comment:)

"Some of the costumes us ladies wear while fine within the con could cause some uncomfortable leering or comments outside the con"
YES! Thank you for noting this. Whenever I was outside the convention for any amount of time at all I was cajoled by strange older men, often with a police officer nearby who would literally do nothing at all. And I was not someone wearing borderline lingerie, I was simply wearing a fairly modest cat-maid costume. But this made downtown, especially on or near the max or pioneer square, EXTREMELY uncomfortable. Sunday's gothic maid costume was just as bad if not worse. I would go as far as to say downtown is /not safe/ for female cosplayers, especially at night. Even without considering all the other downsides of the Hilton, I think this alone should force us to consider a new venue because I'll be honest: no matter how much I want to support K-con if me or one of my friends got raped at 1AM waiting for the MAX I would feel more than justified never attending Kcon again. And I think this is a very real possibility considering a huge portion of Kcon attendees are underage female cosplayers. Everybody should feel guilty if something like that happens simply because we didn't do anything to prevent it.

And I find it ironic that this is the first time I've heard so many complaints about sexual misconduct at Kcon when by far I felt more threatened and disturbed outside the convention than in it.

[makichan]

I also hope we go back, when we can, to one of the previous hotels or the convention center (just how big do we need to be to do that, anyway?)

We have to have an event size of at least 8,000 before Kumoricon can book the convention center.

Does anyone know what the full attendee count was for all three days?

[Blackstar]

I'm sorry.. I've loved the past 3 years of kumoricon, even last years disaster of crowding. But this 4th year for me takes the cake on the worst convention I've ever attended. It's 10x as crowded as last year, and last year people complained about crowding, so why is it WORSE this year? Do the people in charge even pay attention? This thing is all over the place, there are lines galore, people shoving and shouting so much that we're being rushed to god knows where (I was rushed into a line with no explanation when I was simply trying to get back to the lobby) and I've only been able to take five.. FIVE pictures without being shoved, shouted at to move, or even just in general because picture taking is nearly impossible in the cramped crowd. And it's raining, to boot, so no one wants to be outside. It would be a little less cramped if the weather was nice but.. Nope. We got 3 full days of rain coming up. Isn't that just great?

This convention was the first kumoricon for my boyfriend, and he hates it. We planned this out for so long to go together because he's not from around here, and we were so excited to go together for the first time.. and this is what I get to introduce him to. I'm ashamed. I really am. Newcomers will probably never come back, that's for sure.

I'm home right now and changing costumes so I can at least move around there better, but at the end of the con I'm, going to write up a nice long review of the whole thing.

Count your blessing at least you got to go. I would of loved to been in a cramp place with all my friends

[TanisNikana]

You had a really good wedding Yuna. ^^

[LtCommanderRichie]

I also hope we go back, when we can, to one of the previous hotels or the convention center (just how big do we need to be to do that, anyway?)

We have to have an event size of at least 8,000 before Kumoricon can book the convention center.

Does anyone know what the full attendee count was for all three days?

Apparently a little over 6,000. Or something like that.

[xxxchihiroxxx]

I also hope we go back, when we can, to one of the previous hotels or the convention center (just how big do we need to be to do that, anyway?)

We have to have an event size of at least 8,000 before Kumoricon can book the convention center.

Does anyone know what the full attendee count was for all three days?

Apparently a little over 6,000. Or something like that.

thats also granted we turned away a lot of people

if we stay at the hilton 6.00 is going to be our capacity as we cant allow more people than that in the hotel.

[Mitsukai Mizu Amaya]

@ Tanis: Thank you so much! I used a whole case of needles on the thing(about ten I think)

@ Blackstar: There's always next year?

I had some problems with the homeless around the con and didn't even try going to the Square after pre-reg day. Granted, it was probably the PJ Garnet, but I was so so glad Nikki, Sam, and the others were there with me. Religion!Guy, this creepy old man asking how much I cost, the leering and cheers =/= good. Downtown Portland scares the crap out of me, especially at night.

Still had a fantastic time, all things considered. I got to hang out with so many amazing people <3

[LtCommanderRichie]

You know, if the con is continually held in downtown Portland, you never know. We might just become the next Otakon to our Portland's Baltimore. If that made sense.

[flash15]

I personally had no problems with staff or security at the con.  And no run ins with the hotel people either.

Also, I feel that on the whole the attendees were generally well behaved.  When I walked through the lobby late at night there was not a huge amount of trash like last year, I never saw an attendee jay-walk )unlike last year when I saw them hanging out in the middle of the street even though there was a nice lovely park 15 feet away, and they were not really stopping/sitting in the middle of the walkways.

But really, do they need to talk at the top of their lungs all the time?  I was in the bathroom once and there was a girl who was reading a manga as loud as she could without actually screaming.  I mean really?  In the quite bathroom???  Once I left I could still hear her through the thick door.  Or when I was sitting in a chair in a quite hall and a group of high school students came and sat down on the sofa near me- they were really loud and I was just thinking "you are three feet from the people you are talking to, it is not necessary to project your voice so it not only reaches across the room, but across the next one as well."  Being loud just for the sake of being loud, especially when there are others around just bothers me, a lot.  

For people complaining, I would recommend you try staffing a con and see what it is like.  It gives you a whole new perspective on the con experience.  Like how frustrating it is to tell attendees something that is clearly written on the sign you are standing right next too.  Or saying the same thing over and over when they can find the answer in the program guide they are holding in their hands.  Or being told "Staff was so mean, they were yelling at us" while also admitting that it was really loud at the con.  If people were not talking so loud, staff would not have to yell, but as it is, yelling is the only way they can be heard.

I thought it was over all pretty decent, I just wish some of the panel rooms were bigger but I know there is nothing to be done for that.    

[Blackstar]

I also hope we go back, when we can, to one of the previous hotels or the convention center (just how big do we need to be to do that, anyway?)

We have to have an event size of at least 8,000 before Kumoricon can book the convention center.

Does anyone know what the full attendee count was for all three days?

Apparently a little over 6,000. Or something like that.

I say there was OVER 9,000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mykath]

And I find it ironic that this is the first time I've heard so many complaints about sexual misconduct at Kcon when by far I felt more threatened and disturbed outside the convention than in it.

Part of the problem with a con getting larger means there are more people to possibly be creepers. When you have a con of 2000, you might have 3 or 4 creepers while only a handful of people noticing. 6,000 and you possibly have twice or three times as many, and more people to notice and mention the creepiness.

I felt like the Yojimbo were rather ill prepared for the con as well. Some of them didn't know where things were and I received a lot of miscommunicated information. One Yojimbo would tell me one thing while another would tell me the opposite or not know at all. There was really a lack of communication and knowing how to handle situations and crowds. Also my friend cosplaying Yoko kept getting comments about covering up (not sure if it was by hotel staff or yojimbo) as she was violating dresscode because she had "underboob cleavage" while in the rules it states nothing except needed covering of the nipple and side of the breast. She was properly fashion taped so she wouldn't have a slip either. She has never had a problem with her Yoko before at a con.

I'm not sure exactly what training for Yojimbo happens but I think that maybe there should be more preparation before the con. D:

I expect next year to be much better than this though. First year at a new hotel can always go haywire. Especially when no one was expecting 6000 attendees. D:

[CharlotteElbourne]

Well, I will say that this year did have its ups and downs. I enjoyed myself for the most part, and will gladly be faithful and attend next year, just because I love kumoricon so much <3

There were thinks that made me upset, for sure. The hotel staff members, I think were overwhelmed and may have not experienced such a large group of people before. This leads to a few fuses being lit and some angry tempers. It's understandable, but they should know that sometimes things can't be helped and getting mad at convention attendies for being lost, confused, or just trying to rest/get settled/fixing cosplay is not cool and could be handled better. As with any convention I have ever attended, there are usually barely any places to sit down. And even if there are, people still have to resort to sitting on the ground, carpets, etc. If the hotel/convention staff do not like this, then they need to come up with a plan to make an area where people can sit down, or provide at least a little more seating if at all possible. Walking around all day is quite tiring, and I myself wore heels all three days. Talk about ouchies x_x

Crowding this year was actually not too bad. I would like people that thought this was bad to go to a convention like Anime Expo where there are over 47,000 attendies and THEN complain when they can't move around -.- Yes, the hotel was a little confusing and cramped, but it couldn't be helped. Most people would go outside to get away from the convention congestion, but since it IS Oregon and it rains a LOT, there was not really much we could do. Who knew it would be predicted that it would rain ONLY on the convention days? Things happen... Hopefully next year will be nice and sunny ^^

Having ramps/hallways blocked off was an inconvenience, and I didn't particularly mind the escalators being locked down, since I was in big dresses and do not want the pleasure of having my trains get sucked into the openings and ripped, or possibly injuring me >>; The only thing that was annoying was even at 9am in the morning, I never got a elevator until 2am. Omg I even waiting to get down to the photo shoot I was heading for. The first elevator was full, and the second one was too so I finally said "Screw this I am taking the stairs!" People in the elevator laughed ^^;

Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I found some of the convention attendies to be rude to me. There were a lot of people that would run into me or my cosplay and not say excuse me, or I am sorry. It was quite rude of them, and I don't know if they were having a problem and were just storming around, or were just inconsiderate, but I do not like having my costume's bent or ripped because of people's lack of courtesy. If someone has wings on their costume, MOVE AROUND them, don't run into them D< Thank goodness I could reposition my wings if necessary to make them look better >> One thing about this is, why were people stomping in the stairwells? Seriously? Its 11 fricken pm and all I hear is THUMP THUMP THUMP GIGGLE THUMP from the walls, since I was right by the stairwell... Come on, I want to sleep x___x (not intended as an innuendo)

Just a little more planning, signs, helpful staffies and maybe having no change to the schedule once its the day of the convention... That would be nice for next year. I hope Kumoricon will be even more fun for me next year. <3

[TanisNikana]

THIS CONVENTION WAS BETTER THAN 2006

AT LEAST GIVE IT THAT MUCH

[Mitsukai Mizu Amaya]

... what happened 06? My first con was 07.

[TanisNikana]

Double-booked drunken wedding reception kicked the entire con to the basement on the third day, and the staff was hostile the entire event.

[Mitsukai Mizu Amaya]

... your kidding... that's horrible! I'm glad that wasn't my first con.

[TanisNikana]

It was my first, and I thought it was excellent! But that's cause I didn't know any better. Yeah, on the third day we had drunken weirdoes giving us a hard time along with the hotel staff. Oh, and if I recall correctly, and I may not, but I remember the hotel staff trying to keep us off the main floor and away from the reception on the last day.

[Negima]

THIS CONVENTION WAS BETTER THAN 2006

AT LEAST GIVE IT THAT MUCH

YES

[Rainfeather]

I feel bad for the people who say "OMG I AM NEVER RETURNING AGAIN."

You can't judge a con by one year. :/ Seriously. There's volunteers, and they may change every year. Don't judge it on one year, please please please.

This was my FOURTH con. My first con I didn't really get to attend ANYTHING, I just mainly waited around in the hall and got very little pictures, and I still thought it was awesome, because I didn't know what the frag to do.

I thought it was a good con overall, just a few minor things that need to be fixed. I mean, you can't be perfect the first time - to IMPROVE, you have to make MISTAKES. We're all human. :<

[pepito]

Hey Folks

This thread is pretty cumbersome

I commend you all on keeping this thread positive and constructive and refraining from turing it in to one big con bash. Hopefully by voicing our concerns now staff will have ample time to work on and hopefully rectify the issues before K-Com 2010. I myself am currently drawing up the plans for a new elevator bay 

I ugre you all to stay active on the forums and to keep attending K-Con. Those that have input and issues they would like solved I suggest you join staff and help to make our next con truely awesome

-P

[TanisNikana]

Hey Folks

This thread is pretty cumbersome

I commend you all on keeping this thread positive and constructive and refraining from turing it in to one big con bash. Hopefully by voicing our concerns now staff will have ample time to work on and hopefully rectify the issues before K-Com 2010. I myself am currently drawing up the plans for a new elevator bay 

I ugre you all to stay active on the forums and to keep attending K-Con. Those that have input and issues they would like solved I suggest you join staff and help to make our next con truely awesome

-P

I wish I could join.

[emmyriceball]

I seem to be one of the lucky ones. I didn't have any trouble with the staff, whether hotel or con, in the least bit. I found a lot of the people staying at the hotel rude, but not the staff, and there's really nothing anyone can do about that.

In fact, I went out of my way to talk with the staff/security to see if what everyone was doing was true, and no one was anything but polite and nice to me. I even high-five'd a security guard and told him to hang in there when he was keeping track of the rave line. And I was never denied a passage to the bathroom through that one place in the hallway.
Maybe I was just lucky? :/

Anyways, I'll definitely be coming back, even if it's held here again. I didn't find anything to be THAT much of a problem. The food nearby was quite nice.

However... It is true that the hobos could be rather scary.

[@random]

There was a lot of important debate and arguement that went on after everyone left the con. The rant and rave was actually very eye opening to me. I was about to leave the con with downed hopes and dislike towards the hotel and such but as time progressed and more information was revealed about the hotel and con situation, I left with a much better feeling and a sense of guilt towards being angry at the hotel people.

To be honest, I don't think I could be all that happy either with having myself going to be laid off from work due to lack of guests.

Getting laid off despite doing everything possible to make guests feel welcome? Those people, and I'm sure there are a lot of them, would have my sympathies.

Getting laid off because the hotel normally tries to charge exorbitant rates that people can't afford? Same; the employees don't set the prices.

Getting laid off because you're treating convention attendees like something you scraped off your shoe, or because you're a manager who looks the other way when some of your staff do? No sympathy whatsoever. True, we're not paying the normal exorbitant rates. But conventions are how hotels stay in business, and they're not all the Rich-Executives-Who-Pay-$200-A-Night convention.

Personally, I didn't experience any worse than token condescension or rudeness from the hotel staff. But then again, I had little interaction with them because I learned a long time ago that con staff are the ones you can depend on. And I don't have a hard time believing others had bad experiences, because the sign segregating the elevators said it all: "Hotel Guests | Kumoricon Attendees". Excuse me? We're not also hotel guests? And is it our fault you don't have enough elevators to accommodate the convention you contracted to serve?

[murder_of_raven]

I'd sort of like an official response to our complaints, not necessarily from the hotel but from the Kcon staff. I would honestly feel a lot more comfortable investing my pre-reg money if I knew the staff was considering things like the hotel staff's ridiculous behavior, the creepy/dangerous surrounding neighborhood (depending on your clothes, size, and the time of day), and the extremely inconvenient hotel layout. That isn't intended as a challenge or anything; could someone over the level of Yojimbo give an official response to those things? I would love that. <3

[DooFeRthePanda]

well its not really goin to change next year considering that its going to be held at the same area.

[oslapedo]

I feel bad for the people who say "OMG I AM NEVER RETURNING AGAIN."

Good thing that's not what we're saying, it's more like, "I'm not going if it's held in the same crappy place."

[TanisNikana]

I took a vacation in a spot where I go four times a week.

[Tygati]

The location was sheer awful, but I didn't really have a problem with anything else. It was simply so hard to move around or get anywhere at all that it really took a lot of the fun out of it.

It sounds like next year we're stuck at the Hilton again, but it would really be nice if the venue changed to something a little more horizontal and less vertical. The elevator situation was ridiculous, and walking up and down X flights of stairs in some of those costumes must have been a nightmare. I was so glad for my boots.

[IchigoBunny]

would you rather have the police enforcing this or the con staff?

Umm... actually I'm pretty sure this isn't an either/or situation. I noticed an extreme amount of police officers whose job seemed to be solely enforcing hotel rules and controlling cosplayers (which brings me to my second comment:)

"Some of the costumes us ladies wear while fine within the con could cause some uncomfortable leering or comments outside the con"
YES! Thank you for noting this. Whenever I was outside the convention for any amount of time at all I was cajoled by strange older men, often with a police officer nearby who would literally do nothing at all. And I was not someone wearing borderline lingerie, I was simply wearing a fairly modest cat-maid costume. But this made downtown, especially on or near the max or pioneer square, EXTREMELY uncomfortable. Sunday's gothic maid costume was just as bad if not worse. I would go as far as to say downtown is /not safe/ for female cosplayers, especially at night. Even without considering all the other downsides of the Hilton, I think this alone should force us to consider a new venue because I'll be honest: no matter how much I want to support K-con if me or one of my friends got raped at 1AM waiting for the MAX I would feel more than justified never attending Kcon again. And I think this is a very real possibility considering a huge portion of Kcon attendees are underage female cosplayers. Everybody should feel guilty if something like that happens simply because we didn't do anything to prevent it.

And I find it ironic that this is the first time I've heard so many complaints about sexual misconduct at Kcon when by far I felt more threatened and disturbed outside the convention than in it.

god i know how you feel. i was wearing a my little pony costume and people were looking at me and one was asking me if "is that a natural blue" in a super creepy tone. it was outright uncomfortable. and my boyfriend was right there with me!!

[pyronine]

I'd sort of like an official response to our complaints, not necessarily from the hotel but from the Kcon staff. I would honestly feel a lot more comfortable investing my pre-reg money if I knew the staff was considering things like the hotel staff's ridiculous behavior, the creepy/dangerous surrounding neighborhood (depending on your clothes, size, and the time of day), and the extremely inconvenient hotel layout. That isn't intended as a challenge or anything; could someone over the level of Yojimbo give an official response to those things? I would love that. <3

Actually If you had attended the Rant and rave after the closing ceremonies, you would have gotten your official response. Yojimbo's are basically crowd control, the director of the con and his subordinates were all at the rant and rave giving responses to everyones issues. The hotel staff's behavior was a major subject there, not just their security detail but all staff together. The lobby staff and security was talked to on sat after all the issues arose on friday, and there was a major difference in the way they handled issues. they approached it in a more pleasant manner. The neighborhood was actually better and worse than the previous year. In the daytime it was worse as there was not a place to go to hang out that was out of the rain. But at night it was far better, the lloyd center dbl tree has a homeless camp right next to it, and had far more homeless people around it. I walked the streets around the hotels on friday night and it was actually nice. As for the hotel layout, that was addressed to. but there is a reason why things were closed like the elevators to the lower levels or some stairways. most of these were due to fire hazards (i.e. max people, escape routes, etc), some of the closures were due to security issues.

The location was sheer awful, but I didn't really have a problem with anything else. It was simply so hard to move around or get anywhere at all that it really took a lot of the fun out of it.

It sounds like next year we're stuck at the Hilton again, but it would really be nice if the venue changed to something a little more horizontal and less vertical. The elevator situation was ridiculous, and walking up and down X flights of stairs in some of those costumes must have been a nightmare. I was so glad for my boots.

well its not really goin to change next year considering that its going to be held at the same area.

Yes it is going to be there again, however, you learn from your mistakes. correct? so now everyone (hotel and k-con staff) know what to do to improve it. The Location was actually ok, you had lots of restaurants around, 2 hotels instead of just one so there were plenty of rooms, and the park blocks just a block away. As for the vertical issue, yes i agree it was bad but next year there is talk of not using the 23rd floor. During the rant and rave it was asked why we cant use a convention center, the reason for that is a couple of things, a major one is, having a decent sized hotel nearby to hold all the con goers. would you want to walk 20 blocks in a giant costume? or take the max in it amongst non con-goers who want to touch it, or crowd you in. I agree with the stair complaint ( i got blisters ) but no matter where you go you are going to have that issue, last year it wason a single level but was crowded and we exceeded the max capacity of the hotel, and if it keeps growing, it is going to have to have a decent sized place.    The larger the venue is, the more levels it is going to have, at least in portland.


If you want to have a better convention you can do a few things, VOICE YOUR OPINION AT THE RANT AND RAVE, and/or VOLUNTEER NEXT YEAR.  

[IchigoBunny]

The location was sheer awful, but I didn't really have a problem with anything else. It was simply so hard to move around or get anywhere at all that it really took a lot of the fun out of it.

It sounds like next year we're stuck at the Hilton again, but it would really be nice if the venue changed to something a little more horizontal and less vertical. The elevator situation was ridiculous, and walking up and down X flights of stairs in some of those costumes must have been a nightmare. I was so glad for my boots.

i know by the last day i was figuring things out so easily because we had made so many wrong choices all weekend. it was so retarded i couldnt believe where the anime was being shown we found that late the second day and the rooms for those were so small.
I really want either the double tree back or something that worked better for us last year!

[pyronine]

would you rather have the police enforcing this or the con staff?

Umm... actually I'm pretty sure this isn't an either/or situation. I noticed an extreme amount of police officers whose job seemed to be solely enforcing hotel rules and controlling cosplayers (which brings me to my second comment:)

"Some of the costumes us ladies wear while fine within the con could cause some uncomfortable leering or comments outside the con"
YES! Thank you for noting this. Whenever I was outside the convention for any amount of time at all I was cajoled by strange older men, often with a police officer nearby who would literally do nothing at all. And I was not someone wearing borderline lingerie, I was simply wearing a fairly modest cat-maid costume. But this made downtown, especially on or near the max or pioneer square, EXTREMELY uncomfortable. Sunday's gothic maid costume was just as bad if not worse. I would go as far as to say downtown is /not safe/ for female cosplayers, especially at night. Even without considering all the other downsides of the Hilton, I think this alone should force us to consider a new venue because I'll be honest: no matter how much I want to support K-con if me or one of my friends got raped at 1AM waiting for the MAX I would feel more than justified never attending Kcon again. And I think this is a very real possibility considering a huge portion of Kcon attendees are underage female cosplayers. Everybody should feel guilty if something like that happens simply because we didn't do anything to prevent it.

And I find it ironic that this is the first time I've heard so many complaints about sexual misconduct at Kcon when by far I felt more threatened and disturbed outside the convention than in it.

god i know how you feel. i was wearing a my little pony costume and people were looking at me and one was asking me if "is that a natural blue" in a super creepy tone. it was outright uncomfortable. and my boyfriend was right there with me!!

Those were not Police officers, that was hotel security. As for the leering go read the 10 CON-mandments http://www.kumoricon.org/forums/index.php?topic=11105.0  

5 ) Thou shalt not be offended when locals whistle at the Felicia outfit. Thou chose to walk down Main Street (err SW Taylor st) in it.

[Lynx]

Rant and Rave. They answered all questions. Even went over their scheduled time because of how many issues there were. That was with a very small amount of people in it too. Think what it would have been like should that room have been filled to the brim with all 750 max occupants.

[lilithfire]

I think the only difficulty I had during this con was the lack of wayfinding signs. I understand that maps were provided for us in the program book but stand up signs in different high traffic locations would be a great help in navigating around the con. It took me half a day to figure out that there was ANOTHER tower across the street. lol. That, and I am slightly a bit of a Ryoga. lol.

The con staff did the best that they could, given the situation. I could only imagine having to operate a huge event in a location that they are not used to. With new location typically comes with unexpected issues. I think next year will be better now that these issues were brought up and they can get past their growing pains.

[pyronine]

I think the only difficulty I had during this con was the lack of wayfinding signs. I understand that maps were provided for us in the program book but stand up signs in different high traffic locations would be a great help in navigating around the con. It took me half a day to figure out that there was ANOTHER tower across the street. lol. That, and I am slightly a bit of a Ryoga. lol.

The con staff did the best that they could, given the situation. I could only imagine having to operate a huge event in a location that they are not used to. With new location typically comes with unexpected issues. I think next year will be better now that these issues were brought up and they can get past their growing pains.

I brought the sign issue up to a few of the higher ups in the con, I fully agree with you, signs would have helped a lot.

[ThiefKingsHier]

  I didnt so much mind the crowding. It happens but I could NOT get to my room because of line-con for the elevators. I eventually packed a bag with my essentials and moved down to the car. That is inexcusable.
In any case th staff knows it was a problem. No sense beating a dead horse.  

The only thing I can imagine is that someone screwed up and forgot to book any of the better hotels and was stuck with that hellhole. Whatever. Its over now. Just learn form your mistake.

[leonmasteries]

I expected a huge crowd to appear for this, because of what I herd about last year, that I don't mind... The staff was a bit mean tho, like yelling at a bunch of people and stuff... I'm just glad the cleaning lady's didn't do bad things to our hotel room, and for being able to take all the stuff my friends did to the room, we left a good 20 dollar tip for them.

[Shingami_lover]

1. The Hilton is know for being there for the rich and the proper... I know the one in Vancouver was really sweet but most Hiltons do not like kids, BECAUSE they get the rich and proper...

2. The hotel staff was the ones making the con staff look bad... or so I noticed!

3. Con staff did not tell everyone on staff what was going on there were to many Alphas... I was a volunteer and I would be asked to go somewhere and I would go but when I got down there, the person where I went did not know where or what I was suppose to do...

.... 
 

[Agent47]

After it was all said and done.. I'm agreeing that this k-con was terrible.. to the point where I may refer to it as fail-con for all of time.

Seriously.. from the numbers I was hearing, which are probably not quite accurate, this con had roughly 2,000-3,000 more people than last year.

How exactly did they expect to fit all those people in a hotel, when last year was crowded, and that was with a giant park outside, and a mall across the street? Seriously.

And while I never had any issues with the staff personally, I heard the hilton staff were quite nasty to some people.. calling con-goers freaks and whatnot.. plus it seemed like some of the k-con staff were being asses too.. like Sunday night, a friend and I were in the lobby, it was about 12:30am, with a few minors, and the mother(i.e. legal guardian; who had driven up from eugene that day) of someone there, and the cross-eyed k-con staff member told them all the minors HAD to leave.. even though there were atleast 4+ adults with them, one of which was the legal guardian of atleast one of them(not sure if any of them were sisters).

Long story short, the mother went to the Hilton staff and got confirmation that as long as the legal guardian is with them, and in control of the group, they can legally stay there(it was 12:30am, nobody was around, and and there was a total of about 8 of us, sitting by the staircase in the main lobby).

Oh, and lets know forgot about Monday, at around 3:30pm, there was a group of us, simply lined up against the wall outside, hanging out. We had 2 con staff members checking what we were doing, since the closing ceremony line was outside too. We indicated we were simply hanging out. One was like 'alright', and the other was like 'if you wanna get in line, it ends over there' and indicated the line ended on the wall, a bit closer to the main entrance to the lobby.

Within 10 minutes after the 2nd one, there was a douche, who came over and said we had to move because the ceremony line was outside, and making the sidewalk congested, and with us there it was too congested, so we had to move. Which was obviously incorrect, since we were all pushed up against the wall, and had little to no effect on the actual traffic of the sidewalk.

But in all seriousness.. if the contract isn't broken, and k-con 2010 is at the Hilton again, there's a very good chance I won't go next year. Or ever again until it's held either at the doubletree again, the rose garden, or the portland convention center. Seriously.. yes, cons are very hectic, but if you just choose hotels to hold them at, without consideration of immediate area, and you choose a place with staff that directly insult the con-goers.. that's just unprofessional.

If something doesn't change, it wouldn't surprise me if next year marks a record for being the first k-con with less attendees than the previous year.

But that's just my 2 cents.. I thought k-con 2008 was amazing, and if that was a year people were complaining about overcrowding, I got a bad year for my first, but I still loved it. And with that said.. this year was horrible. I feel sorry for anybody who's first con this was.

[Bresslol]

Hey I counted the people from con that were kicked out of the executive tower on the second night and uhh...48 people were kicked out for just about nothing. The hotel staff completely didn't care. There was a couple haveing s@$ on the dance floor at the mascarade ball and they didn't even do anything to syop it and I heard that the sakura con chair for next year left the con early because of the managements treatment of con members.

See, that's a good story. Tell it again.

Let me tell you one.

Once upon a time, Bressler (Sakura-Con's Programming Director aka the author of the post you are reading) and Stark (Sakura-Con's Chair) went to Kumoricon to have fun. They did. They had a blast.

But one day, a Monday to be precise, and 9/7/09 to be even further precise, they had to allocate money for things at their convention. They had to leave early in the morning to get to the budget meeting on time. They went and the budget meeting was good.

But the next day, Bressler went on the internet and saw people were spreading false rumors about why Sakura-Con's execs left early. He was saddened by this. He then decided to post on Kumoricon's fourms to inform people who did not know the facts the real reason they left Monday.

The moral of the story is: We wish we could have enjoyed Monday, but alas, we had our own business that took precedence. The three days we were at the con (fri/sat/sun) were a lot of fun and so much, that I am coming back and am considering staffing.

The end.

[gladimus]

would you want to walk 20 blocks in a giant costume? or take the max in it amongst non con-goers who want to touch it, or crowd you in.

I've ALWAYS ridden the max to kumoricon, and this NEVER happened once. People on the max aren't THAT bad. Sure there may be some weird guy talking to himself, but no one is going to touch you. You might hear some guy complaining about the 'freakish nerds' in the area but he's easy to ignore and the worst he can do is insult. If anyone tries to touch you or harm you in any way shape or form just hit the emergency button on the max and tell the train conductor you are being harassed. The offender will be removed. But this really never happens.
There's a reason why they made the con max-accessible in the first place. Because the max is actually a good way to get there. Sorry but that comment about the max sounds like an outright false excuse that might make people think trimet is a horrible form of transportation with disgusting people, but it's not. Even on non-kcon days I sometimes dress up and go to portland and not once has anyone bothered me.

[gladimus]

would you rather have the police enforcing this or the con staff?

Umm... actually I'm pretty sure this isn't an either/or situation. I noticed an extreme amount of police officers whose job seemed to be solely enforcing hotel rules and controlling cosplayers (which brings me to my second comment:)

"Some of the costumes us ladies wear while fine within the con could cause some uncomfortable leering or comments outside the con"
YES! Thank you for noting this. Whenever I was outside the convention for any amount of time at all I was cajoled by strange older men, often with a police officer nearby who would literally do nothing at all. And I was not someone wearing borderline lingerie, I was simply wearing a fairly modest cat-maid costume. But this made downtown, especially on or near the max or pioneer square, EXTREMELY uncomfortable. Sunday's gothic maid costume was just as bad if not worse. I would go as far as to say downtown is /not safe/ for female cosplayers, especially at night. Even without considering all the other downsides of the Hilton, I think this alone should force us to consider a new venue because I'll be honest: no matter how much I want to support K-con if me or one of my friends got raped at 1AM waiting for the MAX I would feel more than justified never attending Kcon again. And I think this is a very real possibility considering a huge portion of Kcon attendees are underage female cosplayers. Everybody should feel guilty if something like that happens simply because we didn't do anything to prevent it.

And I find it ironic that this is the first time I've heard so many complaints about sexual misconduct at Kcon when by far I felt more threatened and disturbed outside the convention than in it.

god i know how you feel. i was wearing a my little pony costume and people were looking at me and one was asking me if "is that a natural blue" in a super creepy tone. it was outright uncomfortable. and my boyfriend was right there with me!!

Those were not Police officers, that was hotel security. As for the leering go read the 10 CON-mandments http://www.kumoricon.org/forums/index.php?topic=11105.0  

5 ) Thou shalt not be offended when locals whistle at the Felicia outfit. Thou chose to walk down Main Street (err SW Taylor st) in it.

This year that rule wont apply too well.. since the area where said offenders were harassing girls and making them feel uneasy was on the way to the max line. We didn't choose to walk there, we had to. Why? Because that's where they decided to put the con. In lovely downtown where creepy bums and really weird guys love to wander around and bother people. That's not our fault.

People aren't so much offended as they feel threatened, unsafe, uncomfortable, and uneasy about the location. Yeah you can blame them for walking at night in those costumes, but that's not their fault either. A lot of fun events HAPPEN at night, so why the heck would they want to leave early? Plus, some people had to park further away I'm sure, so they HAD to walk a little ways. Again, this is not their fault that the location is in such a... to be honest... gross part of town. Granted, it's not chinatown, but it's still a very creepy place to be.

Why do you think the guy from the show "Insomniac" came to downtown portland for one night? Because downtown Portland is f*****g creepy/crazy at night!

[pyronine]

And while I never had any issues with the staff personally, I heard the hilton staff were quite nasty to some people.. calling con-goers freaks and whatnot.. plus it seemed like some of the k-con staff were being asses too.. like Sunday night, a friend and I were in the lobby, it was about 12:30am, with a few minors, and the mother(i.e. legal guardian; who had driven up from eugene that day) of someone there, and the cross-eyed k-con staff member told them all the minors HAD to leave.. even though there were atleast 4+ adults with them, one of which was the legal guardian of atleast one of them(not sure if any of them were sisters).

Long story short, the mother went to the Hilton staff and got confirmation that as long as the legal guardian is with them, and in control of the group, they can legally stay there(it was 12:30am, nobody was around, and and there was a total of about 8 of us, sitting by the staircase in the main lobby).

I would like to apologize for him, he should have asked if a guardian was present, however the yoji's were told there was a curfew which is also stated in the con guide. Yoji's are told to use their judgment  in enforcing the rules. Most yojimbo's were exhausted by the time this had happened due to long shifts and lack of sleep. I personally worked from 7am - midnight. I know who you are talking about and he is actually a very nice person. he was just looking out for the safety of the minors.

Oh, and lets know forgot about Monday, at around 3:30pm, there was a group of us, simply lined up against the wall outside, hanging out. We had 2 con staff members checking what we were doing, since the closing ceremony line was outside too. We indicated we were simply hanging out. One was like 'alright', and the other was like 'if you wanna get in line, it ends over there' and indicated the line ended on the wall, a bit closer to the main entrance to the lobby.

Within 10 minutes after the 2nd one, there was a douche, who came over and said we had to move because the ceremony line was outside, and making the sidewalk congested, and with us there it was too congested, so we had to move. Which was obviously incorrect, since we were all pushed up against the wall, and had little to no effect on the actual traffic of the sidewalk.

Due to safety reasons, the sidewalk needs to be kept clear so people (con and non con) can use it safely without having to walk in the street. if everyone hangs out on the sidewalk it creates i giant fire and safety hazard. they do not know if you are in line or not, they should be asking if you are in line instead of assuming that you are. Again i am sorry.

[Shadow]

 
The general age (or more importantly, the maturity level) of the Kumoricon attendee seemed to drop disgustingly this year.

THIS.

I couldn't believe how some people were acting. The PDA got real old after awhile, and the tweenies yelling and being generally obnoxious was just ridiculous. We get it, it's a con. It's exciting. But for the love of God spare us. It's no wonder cosplayers/con attendees get a bad name.

Common sense: Not very common anymore.

[gladimus]

This is honestly the first time I've been debating if I want to go next year or not. It's sad, but I have some doubts about K-con if it will be at the Hilton again. Every other time I was always excited to go, because I had fun and I was treated very nicely by everyone, even hotel staff who were sometimes even taking pictures themselves, and my friend had a conversation with one about the anime she was from.
This hotel is not like that... The con-goers are nice as usual, the place was confusing though, like all cons at first... the only difference was that it kept changing and growing more confusing, and there were no signs to help, and the k-con staff weren't all too sure where things were a lot of the time. Plus there was conflict between hotel and k-con staff since they kept changing plans on them without really doing much to inform the others. The hotel staff made me feel unwelcome and unwanted, which isn't k-con's fault, but it is their fault for making a 2 year contract without knowing what the hotel would be like. Yeah, they only gave out 2 year contracts... So why did you take it?
Other hotels I never felt so judged, except by people on the outside who didn't know what was going on. But that's normal. When I feel judged and uneasy about myself inside a convention because of the very people who are supposed to be hosting us, something is terribly wrong.

As I've said many times before, just because they learned from their mistakes and plan next year better... They can spread out the panels and events and equal things out in both buildings, they can better prepare both the hotel and k-con staff, they can put up signs and organize a bit better... But it wont change the fact that the hotel is based on size vertically and has a smaller main floor perimeter, which will make it hard for people to get around regardless. It wont change the fact that there still might be more people going next year than this year, and that more people will be disappointed at being closed out early. It wont change the fact that downtown portland is unsafe at night, especially in that particular area, and that pioneer square is one of the favorite places for bums, perverts, religious nuts passing out fliers, and just plain weird people to gather. It wont change that there is nowhere to go if it rains, except indoors where it's cramped. It wont change that there are no wide open areas close by that are safe and fun and great to relax in, play games, and do photoshoots.

[Himura Kenshin]

 
The general age (or more importantly, the maturity level) of the Kumoricon attendee seemed to drop disgustingly this year.

THIS.

I couldn't believe how some people were acting. The PDA got real old after awhile, and the tweenies yelling and being generally obnoxious was just ridiculous. We get it, it's a con. It's exciting. But for the love of God spare us. It's no wonder cosplayers/con attendees get a bad name.

Common sense: Not very common anymore.

This.

Agreed.

Quoted for truth.

[insert another term]

I was only there on sunday, but I never noticed this.
Most of the people I saw or came into contact with were very respectful to me and each other.. in fact I was impressed, and very happy with that as my mother (even though I am 21) was reluctant to leave me at the convention, but from word of a hotel staff (on saturday night) she was told that the con attendees were very well behaved. O.o So maybe somehow I just missed all of the bad stuff people are talking about? It was my first convention though... but I thought it was awesome (having nothing to compare it to). I will definitely be going next year if I can get the money to go.

[Sugarlat]

Location in my opinion wasn't the best choice. Having everything spread out was nice but in different buildings was confusing. I was in the executive tower and I didn't even know that there were panels going on IN THE SAME BUILDING. It was really confusing. Last year I had tons of fun because everything was easy to find. I got lost a lot this year and the streets were kinda scary...o3o
Con-goers are nice but maturity of them has dropped a lot. There was this one guy that bothered me the entire time >> [/hewascheckingoutmygirlfriendandithinkhefollowedusalot]
Anyway, honestly I had more fun in my hotel room. >>;;
It was nice seeing everyone as much as I could but the layout was so confusing I spent most of my time in my hotel room and in the artist ally. I only went to one panel and visited the karaoke room once. I didn't even know that there was anything on the top floor o.o;;

[Chandra Nalaar]

Well, it certainly turned me off from ever attending a hotel-based convention again. But to prevent any further flame breakouts, I'm not saying anything more.

[pepito]

I was coming down the elevators from 23 around 3:00am and some attendees inside were worried about walking over to the exec tower with all the homeless people outside (they apparently had a bad experience the night before) I told them that I wouldn't mind walking them over to the exec tower - and I'm sure any of the other night Yoji's would have done the same.

Hopefully we can work out having Yoji's to escort people to max line or exec tower next year - I don't think we accounted for creepy people or the homeless giving our con goers a bad time but that is something we can hopefully work to improve next year.

[Kimiski]

The panels rooms should have been bigger as well, probably as big as the live events would have been good.
Trying to get into the hentai room was ridiculous, I heard from my friend who came early, they kicked half the people out because of fire codes. And then there was a line to get inside. Not only that, but why was there hentai schedule for only one night and in one room/ Usually at least one of the viewing rooms switch to hentai after midnight.

Besides room size issues, and the obvious things how horrible the hotel and hotel staff was, I still enjoyed the convention alot this year. I always love going to Kumoricon. The weather didnt help any with the crowding issues, no one could spill out into the parks while it was raining.

[@random]

The general age (or more importantly, the maturity level) of the Kumoricon attendee seemed to drop disgustingly this year.

THIS.

I couldn't believe how some people were acting. The PDA got real old after awhile, and the tweenies yelling and being generally obnoxious was just ridiculous. We get it, it's a con. It's exciting. But for the love of God spare us. It's no wonder cosplayers/con attendees get a bad name.

Common sense: Not very common anymore.

I was only there on sunday, but I never noticed this.
Most of the people I saw or came into contact with were very respectful to me and each other.. in fact I was impressed, and very happy with that as my mother (even though I am 21) was reluctant to leave me at the convention, but from word of a hotel staff (on saturday night) she was told that the con attendees were very well behaved. O.o So maybe somehow I just missed all of the bad stuff people are talking about? It was my first convention though... but I thought it was awesome (having nothing to compare it to). I will definitely be going next year if I can get the money to go.

I have little doubt that both these experiences are equally true, contradictory as that may seem.

Most of any group are good people - polite to, and considerate of, others. (Even the hotel staff.)
On one extreme end, some are so wonderful that you wish you could take them home with you. <3

^{(Like the Vampire Knight girl I mistook for grown-up Momiji, the tall grey-vested staffer guy, or the sax-playing guy
who made the lines so much more bearable... just for starters. And I bet everyone has their own list like this.)}

On the other, a few are jerks who don't think of others, only of what they themselves want or don't want. (>_<)#

The weight of the jerks gets magnified a lot by our perceptions: Rude behavior often gets labelled as okay when "our group" does it and horrible when "they" do it. A nice guy has stopped being a nice guy if he's mean for very little reason; at that particular moment he's being a jerk. But that's less true if he's mean for a logical reason that the offendees don't realize (or sometimes just don't want to see).

There really are some jerks, no question. And there really are some innocent victims. But a lot more stuff is just a misunderstanding between good people. Watch waaaay too much anime, and less American TV, and you might see it the same way. (^_~)

[Gatomon02]

Ok, I am going to speak my piece because I worked very hard over the months before con, and at con, to make it a great experience for everyone.  

First of all, I know many of us staff members appeared flustered, stressed, etc, and some of you may have taken something said/done as rude, inappropriate, etc.  Allow me to elaborate on the fine details.

-We had a decent sized calling for our Youjimbo staff.  However, it was not enough.  People were having to work double and triple shifts, with very little sustanance (though we did make rounds to get people as much as we could for food, water, etc.) and sleep.  I myself, a non-youjimbo staff member offered my services (as did many others) to get these people off the floor, and off to sleep, a full meal, and what not.  Yes, some people should have acted a lot kinder, but take into consideration the long hours these people had to put in.  Also realize that some of the con-goers and hotel staff (as well as some of our own) were getting snippish with people.  A few hours of this does wear you down.  I know all of you are aware of this.

-Our staff had the vast majority of line details, etc worked out before the con.  There will ALWAYS be last minute kinks; it's unavoidable.  Our staff TRIED to keep the lines under control, and keep the flow going accordingly, but the hotel staff continuously overrode those desicions and "reworked" the lines to a way they thought suitable.  And yes, I know that these "suitable ways" were far from neccessary or efficient.  To put it bluntly, the hotel staff were not prepared, and they panicked (opinion btw).

-When I first entered the hotel, I said right of the bat, "This place is architectually incorrect to channel this many people."  I will agree that this place is not made for this many people to be walking around.  This of course did not help the mass confusion and head-butting between our staff, and hotel staff.

-Let me remind you that, as we do not OWN the hotel, we are sadly bound by responsibility to obey some of the hotel's wishes.  Thus resulting in things like rationing the elevators (counting off seven people per car), and the shutting down of the escalators (which caused headaches and pains for some of our disabled con-goers and staff).  Do not think that we just bowed our heads and said "yes sir", "no sir".  Some of the decisions made were contested till the last breathe sort of the speak.  

If I have missed anything, I will come back later and speak some more on this first issue.  

Second thing: Contracts, Crowding

-Refer above to the architectually incorrect clause.

-This contract, that many of us are loathing right now (even some staff) was made so as to benefit the con in same way, shape, or form.  Let me boil this down into pros and cons.

Pros

We effectively have a home for 2 straight years.  This takes a HUGE burden off planning, finances, etc.  Meaning we are better able to learn from the past, and concrete the future.

Knowing that we will fill their rooms, rent their conference halls, etc means that we do have leverage from a business perspective.  We are indeed working with them to iron out our difference to make things better next year, but if we have to, we have that curve ball to throw at them.

Cons

Crowd control and flow will most likely be an issue again simply because of the building design.  I stress this, however: Do not be part of the problem, be part of the solution.  All of us who go to con, as staff or attendees as a whole have the voices we need to make change for the better.  If that means that a large group of us has a sit down chat with the manager, and/or con-chair and stresses discontent, then so be it.  Nothing will change if all you do is bicker and not act.

We house the con in Oregon/Washington.  It will rain.  I hate to say it, but get used to it.  There will be times where we HAVE to get people in lines outside.  It is everyone's job to come prepared for the weather (I say everyone because some of our own were complaining as well -_-*).

Those are not the only pros and cons, but some of the bigger ones I am noticing.

NEXT-People getting kicked out of rooms.

For one of a few reasons:
Underage (curfew, 18+ rooms, etc).  

Fire code (Which sadly I did believe was BS on many occasions).  The fire marshall was in the building, and if we did not stick to the strict guidlines they set down, we and the hotel could be fined, and that would really kill us for con next year.  Again, I did not like it either, but I wouldn't want to tango with a government official in this case.

Take note that some people could have been removed because they were being loud and/or disrespectful.

And for anyone who thought some of the rooms were too small, again, we rented everything we could.  We had to deligate rooms as best we could.  These rooms were not made to handle extremely large groups.  I think the most that hotel really ever sees are several hundred people job fairs.

If any of us "yelled" at you, it was not in an angry sense.  We were in a place with thousands of people talking, hooting, hollering, etc.  To be heard, we gotta yell.  Take note the vast majority of us DO NOT want to be placed in the black list group because a few people made the rest of us look bad.  If I hollered for people to move against the wall, not block stairs, etc, I made sure to say please and thank you.
 
Ok, I know this is not everything, but I really don't want to take an entire page to myself.  So let's summarize, call it good, and move on.

As a second...or third year staffer (seriously can't remember), I have gained a severe appreciation for the work that goes on before con, behind the scenes at con, and after con.  We do the best we can with what we have, which most often is not enough.  Like a job (which by the way we DO NOT get paid for) we sweat, bleed, and toil till we are exhausted and beat.  Threads like this break our hearts after all the hours and tears we have put into each and every con.  Many things going around are true; other false.  True or not, I cannot stress enough that people should be part of the solution, not the problem.  You can be a critic, but be constructive.  As we grow, we will need more help, we will need more effort, we will need more IDEAS.  Next time, instead of just spitting venom left and right, speak your concerns and problems, then offer a solution to that problem.  We are here, we are whatching, we are listening.  

I will admit we need your money to keep the con going, but we care not about the money save for the reason.  All of us on staff care about and sometimes love all of you who come to our con.  We cannot make everyone happy, but we have, and we will continue trying.  This is a promise that we all make year after year.  









    

[@random]

rationing the elevators (counting off seven people per car)

Loved and agreed with the entirety of your response. (^_^)

Out of curiosity, do you know by any chance how the figure of seven came about? If you took the biggest seven people I saw all weekend, they couldn't have broken 2000# by much (if at all). Let alone the 3000# the elevators were supposed to be rated for.

[reppy]

My guess is that the lb limit is for "normal use."  The con was hitting the elevators pretty hard.

[legoman60]

Just a thing to remember people, this topic is for constructive critisim of the con this year. Not for the "This year sucked im not coming back."

If you agree with someone you can do so without quoteing and saying "this", for that matter you can do so without even posting.

[Slash5150]

First off, for the poster talking about lewd acts occurring at the masquerade ball, the fact that you say “well yoji’s should have stopped it because I saw it” is the most ill-thought out post I have ever seen.  The fact that you saw it doesn’t mean a yoji is going to see it.  if you had a problem with it and felt it needed to be stopped, you should have gotten a yoji.  

I was kinda of freaked out about the number of homeless people congregating around the hilton. i think that all the benches in the back entrance was covered in homeless.....ness....thing-word-that-would-finish-this and they were a little rude about it. i know they are just trying to get some money, but it's a little annoying trying to get through fellow cospalyers, only to again try to get through homelesss people.

i know my boyfriend and i had the same issues we were freaked out actually. another issue we had was some religious guys handing out fliers and they wouldnt take no for an answer.

I had a problem with how the people in the gaming area seemed to hog all the systems. i got to play rockband twice, some weird fighting game where it was all girls (which were all very slow. and not cool besides the one with the gel thing. i kept yelling at my opponent saying THE GLOB WINS) and the computer for a while. i decided to leave at about 3 today because i was so tired of walking around the con with nothing to do

When you said people in gaming were hogging all the systems, essentially there was the quarter play effect in rule (I.E. Winner stays, loser switches out).  If you had wanted to play, all you had to do was ask, and if they wouldn’t let you play I.E. telling you to go away or whatever, INFORM STAFF.  Staff members cannot be behind every console and tell people to play, but instead, the players and attendees NEED to inform staff.  

I have to admit I had a bit issue with the sheer amount of out-of-control and just plain RUDE unaccompanied minors.  No offense to those in the under-18 crowd who know how to act like civil human beings,  but a lot of the younger crowd seemed to be doing absoutely EVERYTHING they could to give us all a bad name.  It got so frustrating that I found myself muttering "fricking Yellow Badges..." with disdain.

A few things witnessed:

- Young kids making out and exploring their sexuality on the sidewalks in front to the hotel.
- Young kids sprawled out on the sidewalk like beached whales.  My friend politely said, "excuse me, we're walking here..." and they rudely said "yeah, you DO that", did not care AT ALL that they were blocking the way on the already crowded sidewalks.
- Young kids screaming obscenities at other con-goers as well as people in public
- Young kids riding the elevators, pushing every button and snapping pictures of people whenever the doors opened on a floor.
- Young kids running around asking for hugs and dancing on people (when asked to stop, they did not)
- Young kids screaming about rape in public in front of non-convention goers.

Did anyone else feel like this year's con was over-run with out-of-control preteens with no consideration for others?  It was very frustrating.

First off, in response to this, there are tons of YOJI around, I’m sure it would have been easy to find one since whenever I turned, there were at least 2 yoji available.


Okay, with those being answered now, a few things.  When you guys say “why not do it at the convention center”  You are all missing a very big point.
Hilton – SEVERAL conference rooms, all having doors and full height walls.
Convention center, ONE GIANT AREA.  This would mean that every area would need to have its own sound setup to prevent one area from squashing another, as well as wall divisions needing to be built, and all that, requires money.  Also, Convention center space, compared to several rooms, is crap.

To those of you saying how you couldn’t get into an area because of this or that, I know that in gaming, we did have to control the number of people who were going to be coming in when we were running our tournaments.  But there was an exception to this.  If you had told us WHY you needed to be in there and it was legit, you could come in.  Telling us that you are the guardian or chaperone of minors involved in the tournament, and you could prove it, then you would be allowed in because its safer that way.  Just saying “I wanna watch” doesn’t work.  The same thing goes if you left a bag in the gaming room and you weren’t allowed in because of room count.  If you tell staff that you need to get your bag, then you should have been let in to get your bag.  The LAST THING staff want is to have to wonder “who’s bag is this” or anything like that.

Now for those who are whining about how you couldn’t go to places because they weren’t letting anyone in (applies mostly to the basement level floor, gaming/rounds/main events) the reason we were having to do that is because even though K-con is a convention, we still have to abide by public law as well as fire codes.  The gaming room was getting capped at 250 people to make sure that it wasn’t getting overly crowded as well as so we knew fire codes were going to be followed, at least for our area.  We actively had people counting people and making sure all codes were followed, tournament entries being allowed priority access and what not.

Now for the RnR part of this post.

The location for gaming along with the hotel and what not, IMO the gaming room, for what we had, was nicely set up.  Power along with locations proved to be an issue but the staff worked amazing with what we were given. My main gripe with location is the fact that CDMA phones (Verizon and Sprint) were gold while 3G (ATT and T-Mobile) were up S-Creek without a paddle.

I would like to note that I HATE BLUE SWAG BAGS now.  Gaming had SO MANY bags that were just left throughout con that were tossed into a giant trash bag.  And to give you all an idea on count, I’d estimate probably 50+ bags.

I thought Yojis were on point.  Whenever I was walking around (which was rare as I spent majority of my time helping all the gaming staff and what not and somehow managing to get tons of pics) I always was able to find yoji around the hotel.

Also, Staff Preservation, you guys are the freaking bomb, and that is some real talk yo!

Parking needs to be figured out better.  I would appreciate it a lot if kumoricon could work out a deal for parking and what not, whether it be for staff, non-staff, or both because I really wanted to come up Friday morning, but since parking would have been even more expensive, I was better off waiting for my parental units to deliver me to the hotel, so instead of being there at say 10AM I was there at 9PM.

I think the escalators being shutdown was actually safer because of all of the dressed and cosplay outfits that were going up and down the escalators.  

Also, all kumoricon and its staff are horrible people for building the Hilton and only putting four elevators in it (lulz)

I think everyone can admit that con 2009 had major problems because of the hotel and the unexpected problems that arose from fire codes to room sizes to interest and what not, and if that turns you off because of con being placed into a new building, more people having an interest in it and what not, then I’m sorry, but ultimately this is what I can say, Kumoricon staff is not paid, the only requirements are (from what I know) Is that you have to be over 18, and you have to be able to attend some of the meetings and be at con.  If you know ways you can help or want to help, then PLEASE JOIN STAFF.  The more staff the con has the better.  For those that say “If I join staff I can’t go to the con” then that is not true, the more staff there is the less each individual has to work.

The other personal RnR that I have is the whole thing with photo staff.  I mean cmon you guys, I was told that there were three people on photo staff, 4 if you include Jawni.  If someone comes up to you saying they want to join you and help out doing photos, don’t go and tell them “you’re full”.  Yeah there are 3 spots, but no one is being paid for this.  Its free work and free publicity, I severely doubt you are bound by some policy of 3 people max, also being told that you picked people without any like portfolio type proof made me a bit salty too.   If it was a misunderstanding on that part, then my apologies.

And 7/elevator was just an agreement between con and the Hilton.

[XFD]

words

Any guess as to what the viability would be on splitting the con into two parts next year; a <=15 oriented k-con and then a >=16 k-con? It would certainly maintain the cash flow needed to pay off the junk-debt of this Hilton, permit to hunt for a second place and then make the transition for the year after. The net traffic in one would be reduced considerably so the congestion would be moot.

[Slash5150]

words

Any guess as to what the viability would be on splitting the con into two parts next year; a <=15 oriented k-con and then a >=16 k-con? It would certainly maintain the cash flow needed to pay off the junk-debt of this Hilton, permit to hunt for a second place and then make the transition for the year after. The net traffic in one would be reduced considerably so the congestion would be moot.

The problem with that is that if it is in two places at one time, you'll be splitting your staff up even more, not to mention it brings in the question of what will go where like where will we put gaming, as well as having to figure out facilities and everything like that.

If its at two times, you have to figure out when, as well as staffers and what not as well as the time it would take to plan.  and Even then, its not a 16 and under thats the problem but it would evolve into 18 or under or 21 and under.

[Kagami]

I have to say, the con was mainly terrible due to hotel staff. Everyone I talked to that was part of the convention staff was so apologetic, but the hotel staff was rude, obnoxious, and even tried kicking me out of the con because I stood up for myself saying that if I paid hundreds of dollars to stay in their hotel, that the lobby should not be considered an 18+ event due to the fact that you do not need a badge to sit in the lobby. Every other KumoriCon I've been to, the hotel staff has been extremely nice and realized that fact. I have even stayed in the lobby all night once, and they didn't say a peep about it- even asking us if we were doing alright and if there were any problems with our rooms.

Now, I managed to run into all the nice people at the con. My mother on the other hand, literally was pushed into some of the not so nice ones. My mother was bumped into while she was in line for the elevator trying to get to her floor. I believe she was standing on the KumoriCon line to be considerate to those who have been waiting longer, due to the fact that the other people in the hotel got priority. Though, this girl said "Excuse me" in a really snotty tone, which normally wouldn't have put her off, but the girls friend purposely bumped into her saying "Excuse me, bitch!". This was not something that she liked to hear. And well, being my mother who is loud and always tries to get her way, she said. "Oh, I'm sorry, slut!" And those girls tried to pick a fight- and my mother(having no badge on), said that she would call security on them. And if normal hotel guests get priority over the elevator, who do you think would get priority over security?

I wouldn't exactly consider it terrible, due to the fact that everyone on the con staff was very helpful and very apologetic, but there were just a few things that set me off. There were an abundance of underage kids that were smoking(and although I am sixteen and I do smoke, it is technically legal for me to have a cigarette- just not carry them with me. Well, at least in Washington.), intoxicated, and shouting terrible things to people. That, and everyone was blocking the sidewalks. People do need to get by, and if you want to smoke, there is even three more sidewalks around the hotel! Crazy, huh?! You don't all need to crowd around one entrance! That's why there are multiple!

Oh- and I would like to point out to people that the ice/soda rooms on each floor ARE NOT MEANT FOR SEXING UP. They had a sign saying the service elevator wasn't for attendees? Yeah- please next year put one that says "Attendees must not feel each other up in this room." I was going for a soda, and did not like what I saw while people were "getting ice".

And about the homeless people everyone seemed to be afraid of...

I hang out with the homeless kids up in Seattle. They're all really nice, and for the most part, hungry. Although they are known for being dirty and drug addicts(for fairly obvious reasons), they are really nice. Last year, I ran into a bunch of them at Lloyd Center, who all seemed so excited to have us here. Although they were asking for money from the con, they were being respectful. I know that the majority of homeless people at the con did not try to get up in your face and try to get money from you. You just need to politely say 'no, I'm sorry' and walk away. They won't follow you and jump you in a back alley. They're people too, and they weren't always homeless- they know how it goes. And although I did hear a few rude remarks from the street kids here, those were not the ones around the convention asking for money. I'm assuming the ones outside the convention were as amazed by our costumes as the normal people are. And hell- I even know a lot of street kids in Seattle that are HUGE anime nerds! But do you really think they'd try to get the money to get into the cons instead of trying to get the money to, you know, eat?! I know a lot of people take money and shelter for granted, but homeless people are not people to be scared of because they can't afford your luxury. Think- if this recession hits you hard in the next month or so and you lose your home- it will be you asking for money.

[Slash5150]

I have to say, the con was mainly terrible due to hotel staff. Everyone I talked to that was part of the convention staff was so apologetic, but the hotel staff was rude, obnoxious, and even tried kicking me out of the con because I stood up for myself saying that if I paid hundreds of dollars to stay in their hotel, that the lobby should not be considered an 18+ event due to the fact that you do not need a badge to sit in the lobby. Every other KumoriCon I've been to, the hotel staff has been extremely nice and realized that fact. I have even stayed in the lobby all night once, and they didn't say a peep about it- even asking us if we were doing alright and if there were any problems with our rooms.

If you are talking about after curfew, Its not the fact that the lobby itself is 18 and over but its the entire convention, hotel and what not that has the curfew placed on itself for all congoers.  Now if you were told by hotel staff to leave, then the best thing to do is get some kind of yoji but even then, its 18 and over past midnight. 

I wouldn't exactly consider it terrible, due to the fact that everyone on the con staff was very helpful and very apologetic, but there were just a few things that set me off. There were an abundance of underage kids that were smoking(and although I am sixteen and I do smoke, it is technically legal for me to have a cigarette- just not carry them with me. Well, at least in Washington.), intoxicated, and shouting terrible things to people. That, and everyone was blocking the sidewalks. People do need to get by, and if you want to smoke, there is even three more sidewalks around the hotel! Crazy, huh?! You don't all need to crowd around one entrance! That's why there are multiple!.

Anything that happens OUTSIDE of the hotel, Con staff CANNOT help with.  Con staff has authority till you get to the public area of Portland.

Oh- and I would like to point out to people that the ice/soda rooms on each floor ARE NOT MEANT FOR SEXING UP. They had a sign saying the service elevator wasn't for attendees? Yeah- please next year put one that says "Attendees must not feel each other up in this room." I was going for a soda, and did not like what I saw while people were "getting ice".

Thats just gross, but umm...yeah.  Get a yoji?

[BloodyWhisker]

I just have one last thing to put for all the reveiws that I've skimmed through.

I agree that the hotel staff were a bit obnoxious, but maybe they really didn't know what they were up for. Maybe they thought it was just something small until they actually saw it. I know that one of the guardsmen were really kind to me, but there was only one, really. It's probably just the stress from all the people around being all happy/crazy/hyper/etc. Maybe next year they will be a little less chaotic since they knew what it was like this year, but we couldn't really know that for sure.
Just because of the staff and the people doing some disturbing things at the Con doesn't mean you should just bluntly stop going. I think that you should just stay out of the way, go to as many fun panels as you like, hang around the dealers room, photoshoots and parks... then that'd be all good even if it were the same hotel next year. It's really just that they didn't like how young we felt and acted, I guess. Most guards are like that at most places.

[Blazingsnowcone]

Posting this because well the bigger the post the higher likelihood changes will be made. I will try to offer constructive criticism  and in general my experience of the con.

Good Things:
personal thanks to two of the con-staff (I dont know your names so I'm going with what they were wearing)

Bondage-Guy I see you at alot of the cons in the NW thanks for running around and entertaining people in line
Guy with the fake smoking cigars- thank you for getting me water/entertaining and in general being an awesome guy
Thank you Registration Line-Length I arrived same time as last year and the line was a lot faster and I didn't end up spending 4 hours in line.
Thank you everyone that had a cool head/ just seemed that an amount of con-staff were at the stress levels that you usually see sunday night at 8 A.M on monday


Hotel staff: Honesty I didn't have any major problems with the hotel staff guess I was lucky

Lines: Cons always have those lines and there is never a guarantee that your going to get into a panel so you arrive early, I would like however a bit more cordination on line length and attempts to limit the length so you don't wait in line for an Hour just to be turned away with a hundred other people.

Stair Idea, Try to pass kinda an unofficial agreement/ that say if your on or under the 10th floor you walk down the stairs. Heck I think the reason I didn't have problems with hotel staff is because we just took the stairs everywhere.

Environment, these are things neither the con nor hotel can control but thought I would mention it.. In broad daylight( 1 PM) one block down from the con I walked by a homeless man picking his fingers with a decent sized knife (5-6 inches if I had to guess) as I walked by He jumped up shouting Gibberish at me with knife in hand... Peace-bonding on my sword or not that's not really an ideal situation for ANYONE let alone any of the large army of females in costume.

Swimsuit contest? what really happened there exactly ?  I was there and I left but the lady in there was about a 10 on the pissed off scale shutting down the panel we had waited for an hour for and Im not quite who broke the rule stalker-pony? the Naruto girls? and WHY was it a 13 event?

Dance. ok 1 AM  Sunday on the dance floor my girlfriend and I were dancing close grinding, I admit we might have been stretched the boundaries of taste a bit BUT it was Sunday night, the minors are supposed to be gone and not 5 minutes in dancing I get a tap on the shoulder and the order to "keep it appropriate". Ive danced the same at Sakuracon and last years Kumoricon and have never been told to keep it appropriate...

Delays: I was signed up for the brawl tournament and after waiting in the game room combination of Hot and Full for an hour after the tournament was supposed to start no games had yet been played we had to leave because we had to get in line for a different event.


Segregating the elevator line... No, that is wrong just flat out we paid for our hotel and we should be equal to other guests

Im still debating coming back, I probably will but I will not be staying in the hilton and I will make sure all females/Heck maybe even the males that I know will be coming with pepper spray .

[Kagami]

I wouldn't exactly consider it terrible, due to the fact that everyone on the con staff was very helpful and very apologetic, but there were just a few things that set me off. There were an abundance of underage kids that were smoking(and although I am sixteen and I do smoke, it is technically legal for me to have a cigarette- just not carry them with me. Well, at least in Washington.), intoxicated, and shouting terrible things to people. That, and everyone was blocking the sidewalks. People do need to get by, and if you want to smoke, there is even three more sidewalks around the hotel! Crazy, huh?! You don't all need to crowd around one entrance! That's why there are multiple!.

No- but what con staff can do is the next time this happens, request that hotel staff do something about it so that there aren't complaints against the con being there again, and they can't try to blame the con for blocking up the sidewalks. I heard the hotel staff yell about it...oh, maybe twice?

[gladimus]

Well, Gatamon02, I did post quite a few suggestions quite a few times in this thread. I havn't been tearing apart this con but I've been sharing my concerns over all the issues it had and I did give a large post of some things that could be done to make it better if it must be in the same building next year. I'm just hoping my ideas are helpful and heard. I would have been at the rant and rave but I was feeling sick, the fan in my costume head lost it's switch so it stopped working, so I sadly wasn't able to attend.  This is the best I can do now, sadly...

[Gatomon02]

rationing the elevators (counting off seven people per car)

Loved and agreed with the entirety of your response. (^_^)

Out of curiosity, do you know by any chance how the figure of seven came about? If you took the biggest seven people I saw all weekend, they couldn't have broken 2000# by much (if at all). Let alone the 3000# the elevators were supposed to be rated for.

This is what the Youji at the elevator were counting off.  They were taking into consideration people getting on at other floors, and costume sizes.

[PaladinCecil79]

I can understand a lot of these frustrations. It was unusual seeing lines having to be formed just to get to the elevators and I had never been to a con before where the lobby was that crowded.

I didn't have any problems with the hotel staff, but I did have a lot of frustration regarding pre-reg. I don't know if this has been discussed yet, but it's something I've been needing to get off my back.
I went into the second floor of the lobby ten minutes before pre-reg started and there were a few other people waiting for it as well. All of us were the first to show up and one or two con staff members who knew we were in line for pre-reg moved us to the first floor and told us to wait there. We waited there for about a half hour to 45 minutes and and it turned out that they moved us to the wrong place.
And by the time the staff found out where we were, a line had already started that spread to Vancouver and the staff member who moved us sent us to the back of the line and apologized 500 times (which obviously didn't make everything better), when she should've sent us to the front and explained to the registration staff what happened, since we were the first line and because of that, we should've been able to get our badges first. What made it even worse was when we got to the room where the registration took place, it wasn't too long a wait, but when we got into the room, the line was three times slower, even though we were two thirds of the way through and by the time we finally got our badges, it was almost dark out.

For next year, the staff is gonna need to work harder on registration lines so this doesn't happen again.

[oslapedo]

I agree about the posts on lack of maturity a few pages back.

You lost the game, good for you, just don't scream it at me.

[Gatomon02]

Well, Gatamon02, I did post quite a few suggestions quite a few times in this thread. I havn't been tearing apart this con but I've been sharing my concerns over all the issues it had and I did give a large post of some things that could be done to make it better if it must be in the same building next year. I'm just hoping my ideas are helpful and heard. I would have been at the rant and rave but I was feeling sick, the fan in my costume head lost it's switch so it stopped working, so I sadly wasn't able to attend.  This is the best I can do now, sadly...

I actually recommend to all of you to please go back through your posts where you have your ideas and CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM.  Copy and paste to a word document and e-mail them to the con staff. 

I am glad to see that the fire has finally settled down.

[Meganekko]

@everyone with Hilton Staff complaints

Although K-con staff is going to tell them how outraged many people were by their bad experiences with Hilton employees it would help if you sent your complaints to the Hilton directly in concerns to their staff.

[murder_of_raven]

Those were not Police officers, that was hotel security. As for the leering go read the 10 CON-mandments http://www.kumoricon.org/forums/index.php?topic=11105.0  

5 ) Thou shalt not be offended when locals whistle at the Felicia outfit. Thou chose to walk down Main Street (err SW Taylor st) in it.

Off the hotel premises at 1AM in a jacket that read "PDX Police" on it? Fairly sure that was a police officer. And yeah, I read the CON-mandments as suggesting you not be /offended/ not that you not feel physically threatened by men twice your size. And that is also suggesting you are wearing a promiscuous-looking costume, whereas I noted that I was wearing something extremely tame. This has absolutely nothing to do with me being insulted and everything to do with us needing to make sure the area around the Con is safe for us smaller con-goers.

I have noticed a lot of hating on homeless people but I'd like to say I only had experiences with mostly harmless homeless people. The people who really messed with me were all non-convention adult men, generally of the drunk variety.

And similar to the request for "anti-con" people to stop quoting people and typing "THAT" I'd really like it if "pro-con" people would stop regurgitating the "If you don't like it go to Rant & Rave and/or become a staffer." Anyone who has been on this thread has heard that at least once by now and it is totally unhelpful. Somebody previously noted that there were 750 people at the R&R which was the fire-martial limit, so obviously not everybody who was interested could have gone. And those numbers kind of hurt the implied "you people are lazy and not contributing to our convention anyway" argument. And anybody who does not live in PDX doesn't really have the option of being a staffer.

I actually recommend to all of you to please go back through your posts where you have your ideas and CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM.  Copy and paste to a word document and e-mail them to the con staff. 

Is there a specific person/email address that we should send this to?

[Gatomon02]

Those were not Police officers, that was hotel security. As for the leering go read the 10 CON-mandments http://www.kumoricon.org/forums/index.php?topic=11105.0  

5 ) Thou shalt not be offended when locals whistle at the Felicia outfit. Thou chose to walk down Main Street (err SW Taylor st) in it.

Off the hotel premises at 1AM in a jacket that read "PDX Police" on it? Fairly sure that was a police officer. And yeah, I read the CON-mandments as suggesting you not be /offended/ not that you not feel physically threatened by men twice your size. And that is also suggesting you are wearing a promiscuous-looking costume, whereas I noted that I was wearing something extremely tame. This has absolutely nothing to do with me being insulted and everything to do with us needing to make sure the area around the Con is safe for us smaller con-goers.

I have noticed a lot of hating on homeless people but I'd like to say I only had experiences with mostly harmless homeless people. The people who really messed with me were all non-convention adult men, generally of the drunk variety.

And similar to the request for "anti-con" people to stop quoting people and typing "THAT" I'd really like it if "pro-con" people would stop regurgitating the "If you don't like it go to Rant & Rave and/or become a staffer." Anyone who has been on this thread has heard that at least once by now and it is totally unhelpful. Somebody previously noted that there were 750 people at the R&R which was the fire-martial limit, so obviously not everybody who was interested could have gone. And those numbers kind of hurt the implied "you people are lazy and not contributing to our convention anyway" argument. And anybody who does not live in PDX doesn't really have the option of being a staffer.

I actually recommend to all of you to please go back through your posts where you have your ideas and CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM.  Copy and paste to a word document and e-mail them to the con staff. 

Is there a specific person/email address that we should send this to?

I believe you should send them to operations@kumoricon.org.  As per above from an earlier post, send all hotel related complaints to the hotel.  This should do it http://www1.hilton.com/en_US/hi/customersupport/feedback.do  BE SURE TO SPECIFY WHICH HILTON YOU ARE REFERRING TO.  That would be The Hilton at 921 SW 6th Ave in Portland, Oregon.

[Gatomon02]

Those were not Police officers, that was hotel security. As for the leering go read the 10 CON-mandments http://www.kumoricon.org/forums/index.php?topic=11105.0  

5 ) Thou shalt not be offended when locals whistle at the Felicia outfit. Thou chose to walk down Main Street (err SW Taylor st) in it.

Off the hotel premises at 1AM in a jacket that read "PDX Police" on it? Fairly sure that was a police officer. And yeah, I read the CON-mandments as suggesting you not be /offended/ not that you not feel physically threatened by men twice your size. And that is also suggesting you are wearing a promiscuous-looking costume, whereas I noted that I was wearing something extremely tame. This has absolutely nothing to do with me being insulted and everything to do with us needing to make sure the area around the Con is safe for us smaller con-goers.

I have noticed a lot of hating on homeless people but I'd like to say I only had experiences with mostly harmless homeless people. The people who really messed with me were all non-convention adult men, generally of the drunk variety.

And similar to the request for "anti-con" people to stop quoting people and typing "THAT" I'd really like it if "pro-con" people would stop regurgitating the "If you don't like it go to Rant & Rave and/or become a staffer." Anyone who has been on this thread has heard that at least once by now and it is totally unhelpful. Somebody previously noted that there were 750 people at the R&R which was the fire-martial limit, so obviously not everybody who was interested could have gone. And those numbers kind of hurt the implied "you people are lazy and not contributing to our convention anyway" argument. And anybody who does not live in PDX doesn't really have the option of being a staffer.

I actually recommend to all of you to please go back through your posts where you have your ideas and CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM.  Copy and paste to a word document and e-mail them to the con staff. 

Is there a specific person/email address that we should send this to?

You can send all your con related comments to operations@kumoricon.org I think is correct.  For hotel related comments, go to http://www1.hilton.com/en_US/hi/customersupport/feedback.do  MAKE SURE YOU TELL THEM WHICH HILTON YOU ARE SPEAKING OF.  It's the Hilton at 921 SW 6th Ave in Portland, Oregon.

[Winfred]

And similar to the request for "anti-con" people to stop quoting people and typing "THAT" I'd really like it if "pro-con" people would stop regurgitating the "If you don't like it go to Rant & Rave and/or become a staffer." Anyone who has been on this thread has heard that at least once by now and it is totally unhelpful. Somebody previously noted that there were 750 people at the R&R which was the fire-martial limit, so obviously not everybody who was interested could have gone. And those numbers kind of hurt the implied "you people are lazy and not contributing to our convention anyway" argument.

For clarification:

Rant and Rave. They answered all questions. Even went over their scheduled time because of how many issues there were. That was with a very small amount of people in it too. Think what it would have been like should that room have been filled to the brim with all 750 max occupants.

[Sayda]

I'm not sure how well the Hilton would pay attention, if anything we should send letters to their corporate office, instead.

[kalagei]

Up above this post someone mentioned that one cannot be a staffer without living in Portland (it was copy pasta from a post copy pastaing another post ><. I wanted to point out that not only do we have staffers from Seattle, Medford, Grant's Pass, The Oregon Coast (these are just a few off the top of my head), but we also had a director from Seattle and one from Eugene. I just wanted to make this known.

Also, if you have any questions or comments about things like registration, yojimbo, infodesk, or volunteers; send an email to operations@kumoricon.org  

I'd love to hear from you guys and heck, if you wanna pull my personal messenger or email or something and chat at me I'm usually more than happy too. (That should all be in my profile).

[pyronine]

I have a request for every one. I think every subject has been covered by now.

SO CAN WE PLEASE STOP BASHING THE CON

instead try to think of ways to improve it for next year or by volunteering yo improve it

 THANK YOU

[Gatomon02]

FREE AT LAST!  FREE AT LAST!  THANK K-CON ALMIGHTY!  WE ARE FREE AT LAST!

[soundninja12]

All of the problems I had were with the hotel, staff (not our wonderful kumo staff) and the actual building.
The staff of the hotel was rude, and disrespectful. They thought for some strange reason that the normal hotel guests were more important than us. We paid too.
Another was that the building was just too hard to navigate. I had issues making it from point A to point B, and my timing (as always) would have been terrible without me getting lost.

My last thing is, my bag got stolen. I left the convention crying because in that bag was my Renge cosplay, wig, and a few chibi dolls. I put a lot of love in to those things, and it was not ok for whoever stole it to steal it. If it wasn't for my great friends (thanks Cloudy, Demony, Megan, Bri, Teddy, Ari, Konan, Mikki, Griff, Mini-man, Sahara, Coleen my roomies, and anyone I forgot) I would never want to come back.

I have another thing to add. The attendees were also on the rude side. I'd never been blown off by an attendee for a picture before. I was blown off when I just tried to talk with some people. I'm not saying that this years attendees were all mean, rude, and (as stated by others in earlier posts) immature, I'm saying that if you're gonna attend, do NOT be a butt head. It is not nice.

I will say that the ouran tea turned out amazing, for the reason that the person who managed it was amazing (cassi, just FYI, you're the best). I also met the maid squad manager, and she was really cool, I think we were just short on maids. For this reason, I plan on helping out next year whenever I can. I felt so worthless just standing around.

And I do not think we are bashing the con, we are simply getting out our anger. I do not think that the con was at fault AT ALL. I think that they simply were wrong about where it should have been held, that is it. I think that the con is amazing, and they can do better than the prisses at the Portland Hilton. I'm just sayin'

[kylite]

just gonna toss one little thing out here.

for all those who had issues with the staff and felt we could have done better .. Join Us.

help us do better. help us make the convention all it can be.

[murder_of_raven]

Rant and Rave. They answered all questions. Even went over their scheduled time because of how many issues there were. That was with a very small amount of people in it too. Think what it would have been like should that room have been filled to the brim with all 750 max occupants.

Oh well, I guess I was wrong on both accounts. My actual point was we had all heard that advice by now and it wasn't contributing to the discussion. Similar to this post:

I have a request for every one. I think every subject has been covered by now.

SO CAN WE PLEASE STOP BASHING THE CON

instead try to think of ways to improve it for next year or by volunteering yo improve it

 THANK YOU

Yes, please if you do not want to listen to us critiquing something that many of us believe was not up to standards, just stop reading this thread. It says that that's what we're doing in the title of the thread itself.

I think now is the absolute worst time for us to stop talking about it: a lot of people have either decided "the con was great and everybody else is crazy" or "it was awful and I'm not coming back next year". We need to start talking about how we can improve and what the staff should be focusing on.

Personally, I am still very upset that we will be in the Hilton again. I do not feel that it's conducive to our convention and the two actually important issues: overcrowded-ness and the general unsafeness of downtown after dark, have mostly been shrugged at by the staff as well as pretty much everyone else. Sure, there were a lot of "rambunctious teenagers" and "smokers clogging the sidewalk" but if something really bad were to happen next year, at this point I wouldn't be incredibly surprised. I agree that these are issues that are going to be hard to solve, so I feel that we should be talking about them right now.

[soundninja12]

just gonna toss one little thing out here.

for all those who had issues with the staff and felt we could have done better .. Join Us.

help us do better. help us make the convention all it can be.

I plan on at least joining the maid squad. I think you guys just seemed to be short handed.

[TanisNikana]

just gonna toss one little thing out here.

for all those who had issues with the staff and felt we could have done better .. Join Us.

help us do better. help us make the convention all it can be.

I would love to.

[Slash5150]

Rant and Rave. They answered all questions. Even went over their scheduled time because of how many issues there were. That was with a very small amount of people in it too. Think what it would have been like should that room have been filled to the brim with all 750 max occupants.

Oh well, I guess I was wrong on both accounts. My actual point was we had all heard that advice by now and it wasn't contributing to the discussion. Similar to this post:

I have a request for every one. I think every subject has been covered by now.

SO CAN WE PLEASE STOP BASHING THE CON

instead try to think of ways to improve it for next year or by volunteering yo improve it

 THANK YOU

Yes, please if you do not want to listen to us critiquing something that many of us believe was not up to standards, just stop reading this thread. It says that that's what we're doing in the title of the thread itself.

I think now is the absolute worst time for us to stop talking about it: a lot of people have either decided "the con was great and everybody else is crazy" or "it was awful and I'm not coming back next year". We need to start talking about how we can improve and what the staff should be focusing on.

Personally, I am still very upset that we will be in the Hilton again. I do not feel that it's conducive to our convention and the two actually important issues: overcrowded-ness and the general unsafeness of downtown after dark, have mostly been shrugged at by the staff as well as pretty much everyone else. Sure, there were a lot of "rambunctious teenagers" and "smokers clogging the sidewalk" but if something really bad were to happen next year, at this point I wouldn't be incredibly surprised. I agree that these are issues that are going to be hard to solve, so I feel that we should be talking about them right now.

Actually, part of me is glad it will be at the hilton again, mainly because we (staff) know where to fix the mistakes we made, at the same time, I'm horribly depressed its at the hilton again because of the size of rooms and everything. 

[pyronine]

Rant and Rave. They answered all questions. Even went over their scheduled time because of how many issues there were. That was with a very small amount of people in it too. Think what it would have been like should that room have been filled to the brim with all 750 max occupants.

Oh well, I guess I was wrong on both accounts. My actual point was we had all heard that advice by now and it wasn't contributing to the discussion. Similar to this post:

I have a request for every one. I think every subject has been covered by now.

SO CAN WE PLEASE STOP BASHING THE CON

instead try to think of ways to improve it for next year or by volunteering yo improve it

 THANK YOU

Yes, please if you do not want to listen to us critiquing something that many of us believe was not up to standards, just stop reading this thread. It says that that's what we're doing in the title of the thread itself.

I think now is the absolute worst time for us to stop talking about it: a lot of people have either decided "the con was great and everybody else is crazy" or "it was awful and I'm not coming back next year". We need to start talking about how we can improve and what the staff should be focusing on.

Personally, I am still very upset that we will be in the Hilton again. I do not feel that it's conducive to our convention and the two actually important issues: overcrowded-ness and the general unsafeness of downtown after dark, have mostly been shrugged at by the staff as well as pretty much everyone else. Sure, there were a lot of "rambunctious teenagers" and "smokers clogging the sidewalk" but if something really bad were to happen next year, at this point I wouldn't be incredibly surprised. I agree that these are issues that are going to be hard to solve, so I feel that we should be talking about them right now.

Actually, part of me is glad it will be at the hilton again, mainly because we (staff) know where to fix the mistakes we made, at the same time, I'm horribly depressed its at the hilton again because of the size of rooms and everything.  

I agree too, I am glad it will be there. I got the chance to chat with kelli ( i forget her title) but she basically is the go between for the hotel, its staff, and the con operations office. She told me this was a major learning experience and it can only get better next year. Now that the staff has survived the con they know what they need to improve on and fix, the same can be said for the con itself.  When you are born you dont know know how to walk right away you have to learn how to walk, the con is under 10 years old, it can walk but has not learned to run yet.

[soundninja12]

Rant and Rave. They answered all questions. Even went over their scheduled time because of how many issues there were. That was with a very small amount of people in it too. Think what it would have been like should that room have been filled to the brim with all 750 max occupants.

Oh well, I guess I was wrong on both accounts. My actual point was we had all heard that advice by now and it wasn't contributing to the discussion. Similar to this post:

I have a request for every one. I think every subject has been covered by now.

SO CAN WE PLEASE STOP BASHING THE CON

instead try to think of ways to improve it for next year or by volunteering yo improve it

 THANK YOU

Yes, please if you do not want to listen to us critiquing something that many of us believe was not up to standards, just stop reading this thread. It says that that's what we're doing in the title of the thread itself.

I think now is the absolute worst time for us to stop talking about it: a lot of people have either decided "the con was great and everybody else is crazy" or "it was awful and I'm not coming back next year". We need to start talking about how we can improve and what the staff should be focusing on.

Personally, I am still very upset that we will be in the Hilton again. I do not feel that it's conducive to our convention and the two actually important issues: overcrowded-ness and the general unsafeness of downtown after dark, have mostly been shrugged at by the staff as well as pretty much everyone else. Sure, there were a lot of "rambunctious teenagers" and "smokers clogging the sidewalk" but if something really bad were to happen next year, at this point I wouldn't be incredibly surprised. I agree that these are issues that are going to be hard to solve, so I feel that we should be talking about them right now.

Actually, part of me is glad it will be at the hilton again, mainly because we (staff) know where to fix the mistakes we made, at the same time, I'm horribly depressed its at the hilton again because of the size of rooms and everything. 

I'm not sure who's side I should take. One of the big issues I brought up was just the overall difficult-ness of moving about in it. My suggestions to make this easier:
- Pass out a map, and label everything, what floor they're on, and other things of that sort.
- Another is to have them turn on the friggen escalators, it was super hard to maneuver without them actually on.
- signs EVERYWHERE. There were not enough signs, I could not find anything.
- You should tell the Hilton to tell normal people that we're coming. I was flabbergasted when people were not warned pre-con.
- Staff should be positioned everywhere. If you can't find the karaoke room, they should be there to help.
On the same point, the Hilton staff should be informed of what we will be calling everything. They were already everywhere, they just had no clue what I was talking about when I said I was looking for panel room 2.

Another point:
The rooms WERE tiny, but this year we're pre warned. Added to that, you should tell the con goers that the executive tower is another building. I had no idea.

[Hazuza]

I'm not sure who's side I should take. One of the big issues I brought up was just the overall difficult-ness of moving about in it. My suggestions to make this easier:
- Pass out a map, and label everything, what floor they're on, and other things of that sort.  There were maps in the con book and in the schedule, and everything in the schedule was labelled. Whenever I needed one, since I lost mine, I just asked someone else that had a blue bag if I could see theirs. You could've probably also found another one lying somewhere, or up by the reg table.
- Another is to have them turn on the friggen escalators, it was super hard to maneuver without them actually on. They were turned off for safety reasons; people with huge dresses, weird shoes and such dragging on the floor could've easily been caught in escalators.
- signs EVERYWHERE. There were not enough signs, I could not find anything. Yeah, they would've been very helpful... Or more maps posted around on the walls.
- You should tell the Hilton to tell normal people that we're coming. I was flabbergasted when people were not warned pre-con.
- Staff should be positioned everywhere. If you can't find the karaoke room, they should be there to help.  There were plenty of staff/yoji/maids around to help, you just had to look for them. Remember that the staff is mostly volunteers (if not all) and they're pretty short-handed.
On the same point, the Hilton staff should be informed of what we will be calling everything. They were already everywhere, they just had no clue what I was talking about when I said I was looking for panel room 2.

Another point:
The rooms WERE tiny, but this year we're pre warned. Added to that, you should tell the con goers that the executive tower is another building. I had no idea. Don't the rooms have the dimensions on the hilton website? If not, you could've called ahead. And it's labelled in the maps that the executive tower was in another building. It says above the floormap of it, "Across 6th and Taylor from the Lobby", and it also shows those streets on the map.

[pyronine]

I'm not sure who's side I should take. One of the big issues I brought up was just the overall difficult-ness of moving about in it. My suggestions to make this easier:
- Pass out a map, and label everything, what floor they're on, and other things of that sort.
- Another is to have them turn on the friggen escalators, it was super hard to maneuver without them actually on.
- signs EVERYWHERE. There were not enough signs, I could not find anything.
- You should tell the Hilton to tell normal people that we're coming. I was flabbergasted when people were not warned pre-con.
- Staff should be positioned everywhere. If you can't find the karaoke room, they should be there to help.
On the same point, the Hilton staff should be informed of what we will be calling everything. They were already everywhere, they just had no clue what I was talking about when I said I was looking for panel room 2.

Another point:
The rooms WERE tiny, but this year we're pre warned. Added to that, you should tell the con goers that the executive tower is another building. I had no idea.

The maps were past out, it was on the second page of the small handout, and at the info booth
The escalators were turned off for crowd control, and liability reasons. you wouldnt want a cosplay outfit to get caught in it, would you?
Signs, I fully agree, and mentioned it to the K-con operations staff while at the con.
non-congoers  umm......no comment
Staff was everywhere, however it was not the job of the hotel staff to know where things were, the Yoji's and volunteers were everywhere, they had either a red sash or red jacket on.

As for the rooms, i stayed in the executive tower it was only $10 more a night. When you reserved your room you had the choice to choose which hotel to be in. I was on the 20th floor with an enormous room, a bath room half the size of the room, a large desk, a big 42" HDTV, and one hell of a view.

[pyronine]

You type too fast lol. you beat me to the punch lol

[catboy-trades]

I agree about the posts on lack of maturity a few pages back.

You lost the game, good for you, just don't scream it at me.

I had to put a " THE GAME WILL NOT BE PLAYED IN THIS ROOM" Notice in my panels. 
Panel 2 kept it up.   I put it up mostly because I had a person in the front row screaming it while I was talking.

Oh and thanks to the Yojim that never showed up to help me.  Well I take that back... I got one at 2am on monday morning.  He came in sat down and was a big help.  THe one that showed up before hand was rude and then told me to **** off when he left not through the back but through the partition.

So out of four panels I got one bad Yojm and one Good... and both showed up for the last panel ( #4)

[soundninja12]

I'm not sure who's side I should take. One of the big issues I brought up was just the overall difficult-ness of moving about in it. My suggestions to make this easier:
- Pass out a map, and label everything, what floor they're on, and other things of that sort.  There were maps in the con book and in the schedule, and everything in the schedule was labelled. Whenever I needed one, since I lost mine, I just asked someone else that had a blue bag if I could see theirs. You could've probably also found another one lying somewhere, or up by the reg table.
- Another is to have them turn on the friggen escalators, it was super hard to maneuver without them actually on. They were turned off for safety reasons; people with huge dresses, weird shoes and such dragging on the floor could've easily been caught in escalators.
- signs EVERYWHERE. There were not enough signs, I could not find anything. Yeah, they would've been very helpful... Or more maps posted around on the walls.
- You should tell the Hilton to tell normal people that we're coming. I was flabbergasted when people were not warned pre-con.
- Staff should be positioned everywhere. If you can't find the karaoke room, they should be there to help.  There were plenty of staff/yoji/maids around to help, you just had to look for them. Remember that the staff is mostly volunteers (if not all) and they're pretty short-handed.
On the same point, the Hilton staff should be informed of what we will be calling everything. They were already everywhere, they just had no clue what I was talking about when I said I was looking for panel room 2.

Another point:
The rooms WERE tiny, but this year we're pre warned. Added to that, you should tell the con goers that the executive tower is another building. I had no idea. Don't the rooms have the dimensions on the hilton website? If not, you could've called ahead. And it's labelled in the maps that the executive tower was in another building. It says above the floormap of it, "Across 6th and Taylor from the Lobby", and it also shows those streets on the map.

As for the rooms, i stayed in the executive tower it was only $10 more a night. When you reserved your room you had the choice to choose which hotel to be in. I was on the 20th floor with an enormous room, a bath room half the size of the room, a large desk, a big 42" HDTV, and one hell of a view.

I was in the exec. tower too. I know that it was wonderful, it just sucked how far away we were. I was not warned (NOTE: I did not register my room, a friend did) that it was a whole new building though. I should've gotten that out of Tom's video tours, but, as stated, I'm not very observant.

[oslapedo]

The Hilton should definitely advertise KCon and warn "normal" guests. Maybe give out KCon pamphlets or whatever so they understand why there's a few thousand wig'd out sword wielding peeps mulling about.

If KCon banned the game/and/or/Marco Polo that would be so cool. Obnoxious people shouting throughout the con not only gives off a very bad impression of con goers in general but also annoys everyone but the people doing the shouting.

[@random]

- Pass out a map, and label everything, what floor they're on, and other things of that sort.
...
- signs EVERYWHERE. There were not enough signs, I could not find anything.

The maps were past out, it was on the second page of the small handout, and at the info booth
...
Signs, I fully agree, and mentioned it to the K-con operations staff while at the con.

~At the risk of being too snarky, accurate maps would have helped. I'm not sure if this is what soundninja12 is referring to, but the maps were really misleading in some cases (to the point of being flatly wrong), and didn't give enough info in other cases.

~Just an idea, and I'd even be happy to help do it - what about not only signs / arrows, but also "You Are Here" maps in strategic locations?

[Sayda]

Marco Polo was put together by a small group of people wanting to cause havoc on the last day to annoy the hotel staff. Someone approached me and told me I should get involved. I told them I didn't think it was a good idea, and that that wasn't the way to handle things. Returning rude behavior with rude behavior isn't the right thing to do.

[oslapedo]

Well, the hotel staff weren't the only ones annoyed, in any case.

And Sayda, I was in an elevator with you ;-D

[Sayda]

Yeah, it was really annoying to have to yell to be able to talk with friends for the five or so minutes it was going on.

Haha, I know, I remember seeing you. XD

Marco Polo was put together by a small group of people wanting to cause havoc on the last day to annoy the hotel staff. Someone approached me and told me I should get involved. I told them I didn't think it was a good idea, and that that wasn't the way to handle things. Returning rude behavior with rude behavior isn't the right thing to do.

Fighting fire with fire just makes a bigger fire.

Exactly, I ddin't think it was the right thing to do, it only gave us an even worse name then certain convention members had already given us.

[leonmasteries]

Marco Polo was put together by a small group of people wanting to cause havoc on the last day to annoy the hotel staff. Someone approached me and told me I should get involved. I told them I didn't think it was a good idea, and that that wasn't the way to handle things. Returning rude behavior with rude behavior isn't the right thing to do.

uhm... ya, that would have been bad to do, especially seeing as how we're supposed to return next year... I know they probably won't remember any of us in particular, but they will remember how people acted, and that's even worse, because then they will group all of us together.

[murder_of_raven]

~Just an idea, and I'd even be happy to help do it - what about not only signs / arrows, but also "You Are Here" maps in strategic locations?

Sakuracon has these and they are incredibly useful. In fact, it's not even so much that they are useful but that they are comforting. Knowing that if you get lost you can just find one of those signs is awesome... although honestly the Hilton wasn't really large enough to need a map after you got used to it. Honestly, it felt a /lot/ smaller than the Doubletree.

[Himeno]

Weight limits in elevators are the amount that the backup systems can safely stop, not the amount the elevator can hold. Most of the time the posted limit will not fit in the elevator to start with.

Signage: The problem with signage (maps etc) is that if you put up a lot, then people tend to ignore them (if they look at signs in the first place, if I got 1 cent for every time someone asked me about something when the sign in front of them had the answer, I'd be a billionare). Venues also have rules about where you can put signage, and how you are allowed to attach them to different parts of the building. The convention may very well have put up all the signage the hotel let them.


I would have gone to closing/rant panel if I was able to. I couldn't. I had a flight to DFW at 3pm.

[Wuntvor]

Whew! 18 pages of posting, but I read it all!

After all of that I will state my opinions, observations, and suggestions.

It looks like the Hilton will be the place we have the con next year.  If I understand this correctly, it is because it is the only place in Portland that can hold up to 6000 people and have seperate rooms for the events.  I agree that the said rooms are small, in fact smaller than some of the other places we have been, but we can't go to those places because of the maximum amount of people allowed to be inside the building.  Double Tree we all loved you.  Can you add an addition?  Maybe add 10 more floors on top? (sigh)

I found the map misleading and confusing.  The orientation of the room layouts showed the Executive tower to be up and to the left across 2 streets.  We also had a map showing the location of food ATMs and parking.  Interestingly the Executive tower is up and to the right on this map.  Oh and not labeled, just given a number like everytjhing else.  The Hilton on the other hand is labeled Hilton.

I never could figure out why we were not allowed to walk from the lobby to the escalators without going up that short escalator down the stairs on the other side and around from the other side.  I never saw it explained in this thread either.  Why couldn't we exit to the parking garage where the escalators stopped?  Couldn't somone put a sign on the second floor Plaza level explaining that the stairs could be reached through the fitness area.  That whole stairs in the spa thing was just weird.  I also saw spa patrons mistaking the stairs for the entrance to the womens locker room.  I saw more than three women walking down those stairs wrapped in towels.  Of course if you wanted to get from the PL level to the 3rd floor the quickest way was through the spa.  OK, the quickest way was the elevator, yea right.

Am I the only one who felt sorry for Cynthia Martinez?  I attended both of her panels, and I don't think more than 30 people showed up for either of them.  Maybe not even 20.  COME ON PEOPLE,  WHY DO YOU WANT A VOICE ACTOR GUEST TO COME HERE IF YOU AREN'T GOING TO GO SEE HER!  I went out into the registration area outside panel 2 and there where probably 80 people just loitering there.  I said Cynthia is in there talking right now anyone want to go see her?  They said, who is that,  I said the voice of Lina Inverse from Slayers, Sora for Kaleido Star, Poemy from Puny Poni Poemy, Hermes from Kinos Journey.  You know one of the Guests for the con.  About 8 of them trampled me in the rush to enter the room.  Maybe it shouldn't have been called meet Cynthia or Q&A with Cynthia But meet the VA's or something similar instead.  For the few who did attend, she was a blast!  There are YouTube links to her panel at K-Con here:

I found the panhandlers very annoying.  I found the young people on the front steps of the con attempting to suck each others faces off to be just plain disgusting.

The best place I found to park is the smart park at 3rd and Taylor, NE corner.  I parked there Friday evening and left Monday afternoon, my bill was $18.50.  Less than a 1 day stay at the Hilton Executive tower lot.  I just pulled up to the 15 minute zone and unloaded the car, my wife and daughter watched the luggage while I parked the car.  I parked right next to the elevator on the 4th floor of the parkade.  Pretty convenient, and the walk back was only 3 blocks.  Only real problem is that the sidewalk between 4th and 3rd isn't lit at all.  Really dark area at night.

I like the earlier suggestion about putting events in the parks into the schedule.  There are parks both East and West of the hotel.  Only about a block or 2 away.  If you make their locations easy to find on a map, I think that special photo shoot events or outdoor glomping sessions, etc. could be scheduled at them.  Also if large groups of con goers are at these events, there is less likely going to be any trouble with the transient population.  Just make sure to schedule them during the daylight hours.

I didn't have any real problems with con staff or hotel staff, being rude.  I did find it annoying that the equipment that was necessary for a scheduled event wasn't in the room.  I find that un-excusable.  You can't tell me you didn't know the room would need it, or that you didn't have time to get it there.  Both excuses are really lame in my opinion.  I had a couple of panels that were really late because of equipment problems.

What was with the charity auction running over a half hour into the closing ceremonies?  Where they aware that the line went all the way around the block waiting to get into the closing ceremonies?  The only reason I was in the line waiting was because my future son-in law's best friend was going to ask my daughters best friend to marry him, which he did.  (Yea Grace and Brandon)  

Maybe the signs at the elevators should have stated hotel guests and non-hotel guests.  Yes some of the Kumoricon people where only attending the event and not paying to stay at the hotel, but a lot of us where!  An even better seperation would have been for people using the elevator to get to floors 4 and above, versus ballroom  - 3.  Can the hotel set one of the four elevators to only run between the first 3 floors?  May be worth looking into for future cons.

I think the Parking garage worked well for the dealers room, but I didn't understand why you couldn't get to it from inside the building.  Forcing everyone to walk halfway around the hotel to the parking enterance in the rain, SUCKED!  At least allow people to enter from the escalator level glass doors, or allow the elevator to go there, although that does make it easy for unauthorized people (non-con attendees) to get to the dealer room area.

Well that is all for now, I may think of more later.

[Tygati]

I never could figure out why we were not allowed to walk from the lobby to the escalators without going up that short escalator down the stairs on the other side and around from the other side.  I never saw it explained in this thread either.  Why couldn't we exit to the parking garage where the escalators stopped? 

The way it was explained to me by the person at the top of the stairs was that, again for fire safety reasons, they had to limit the number of people who could be on the lower ballroom level at any given time.

[superjaz]

i do wish this had a better title as you can't lable a convention terrible before its all fiished

[@random]

Am I the only one who felt sorry for Cynthia Martinez?  I attended both of her panels, and I don't think more than 30 people showed up for either of them.  Maybe not even 20.  COME ON PEOPLE,  WHY DO YOU WANT A VOICE ACTOR GUEST TO COME HERE IF YOU AREN'T GOING TO GO SEE HER!  I went out into the registration area outside panel 2 and there where probably 80 people just loitering there.  I said Cynthia is in there talking right now anyone want to go see her?  They said, who is that,  I said the voice of Lina Inverse from Slayers, Sora for Kaleido Star, Poemy from Puny Poni Poemy, Hermes from Kinos Journey.  You know one of the Guests for the con.  About 8 of them trampled me in the rush to enter the room.  Maybe it shouldn't have been called meet Cynthia or Q&A with Cynthia But meet the VA's or something similar instead.  For the few who did attend, she was a blast!  There are YouTube links to her panel at K-Con here:

I do sympathize... and you definitely have a point about changing the title to get attention. But you're up against 1) the fact that a lot of people don't even bother with dubs anymore, 2) the "fun factor" (i.e. young attendees looking for events where they can scream, laugh, and act up), 3) the fact that new con attendees often don't know what to do or how to look for everything that's available. I could be wrong, but I think this is even more of a double whammy because the people who favor dubs tend to fall into groups 2 and 3.

On the subject of panels, the censorship panel was really good - people need to know how much danger the community is actually in from things like the Handley case (someone facing up to 15 years in prison for having a large manga collection that included a handful of lolicon titles, but no depictions of real children). Maybe next year more time could be allotted, or there could be more flexibility about why a half-hour is left between hourlong panels.

[GenkiIchigo]

Personally, I had a very good convention! The hotel staff that I ran into were extremely nice and very professional and the majority of the con staff that I dealt with were awesome. That being said, I did have trouble with some of the attendees. The only thing that brought the con down for me a little bit was all of the complaining and rumor spreading. I can't count the number of people I ran into that were upset and angry over rumors that they'd heard. In turn, they would make other people upset and angry by passing the rumors on. Seriously guys, if you don't know for certain that something is true, don't spread it around to other people. It just creates more confusion, hysteria and anger.

The elevators were a little bit scary as far as wait times, but they still were not as bad as some of the other conventions that I've been to. At least they were all working all weekend! n.n

Other than that, I see a lot of complaining about things that the staff should have seen or the staff should have stopped. Did you report them when you saw them happening? If not, how do you expect the staff to know what's going on? They're not mind readers and if they were, with that many attendees I'd feel really bad for them. D:

I'm not really worried that the con is going to be held in the Hilton again. I think that this year was a learning experience for everyone and that next year will be greatly improved!

Ugh, I'm stopping here for now because I'm still tired and I can't think of anything else at the moment.

[gladimus]

I have a request for every one. I think every subject has been covered by now.

SO CAN WE PLEASE STOP BASHING THE CON

instead try to think of ways to improve it for next year or by volunteering yo improve it

 THANK YOU

Can you please stop posting in all caps and telling people they are bashing the con? No one is saying that k-con is the worst thing ever, everyone here so far has been very polite about sharing their experiences, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Everyone is free to share their experiences and opinions, but you're really the only one who keeps being a bit too upset and angry about this. And people have been suggesting how to improve it for next year, so you really need to cut it out. Please. Maybe you liked it there, but some people didn't, and there's no reason for them not to be aloud to post about it.

Calm down, alright? No one is doing anything remotely wrong, nor is anyone 'bashing' or 'flaming' about the con.

[gladimus]

During the rant and rave it was asked why we cant use a convention center, the reason for that is a couple of things, a major one is, having a decent sized hotel nearby to hold all the con goers. would you want to walk 20 blocks in a giant costume? or take the max in it amongst non con-goers who want to touch it, or crowd you in.

Actually I want to point out one more thing. If this is what the K-Con staff gave as an answer, I'm really not sure where they got those facts. I was just at the convention center, and if 'right across the street from 3 hotels' is "20 blocks" then someone really can't add up distance. Right across the street from the convention center is a pretty decently sized Red Lion, across from that is a Motel 6 and a Convention Center Inn, and just ONE stop, ONE MEASLY MAX STOP AWAY from the convention center, is the Lloyd Center Double Tree. Is that REALLY so difficult for people to handle?
So let's get this straight... Somehow 'across the street' and '1 max stop away' translates to '20 blocks' and a terrible crowded max ride with weird people, despite being one stop in an area where most of the weird people aren't even around, and not only that, a possible situation that typically never happens is suddenly a large factoring issue to why it can't be in the convention center?
If you ask me, it sounds like they expect people to be so lazy that they can't cross the street or take 1 minute on the max.


That area is very nice, there's a Subway, Burgerville, Starbucks, Red Robin, Denny's, and 2 max stops away Lloyd Center which has a food court. Plus I probably missed a lot of food places, but it sounds like if we had K-con at the Convention center, we'd have it made. The only issue is that we need more people willing to go so we can reach 8,000.





Maybe if a counter is put up on the pre-registration numbers, it might bring up the numbers faster.
Think about this- On the front page of the kumoricon website it says something like this:

Registered- 5,426/8,000
Help us reach 8,000 so we can have kumoricon at the Oregon Convention Center!!

You never know, it might attract some attention and get people more interested in pre-registering rather than at the door. And it would give us a chance to finally move to a bigger space! Maybe not next year, but the year after.

[Kimiski]

I don't think trying to ban "The Game" is such a good idea. Not a con-wide ban, maybe in small panels for the reasons of being talked over and what-not. Just write it on the boards again or something.

If you try to ban something like that then you'll get a crap load of pissed of attendees.
Signing, shouting, and what not while waiting in lines are what make line waiting fun, infact, it's the random stuff other atendees do that actually make the con for me. It will seem like your trying to make them stand in a neat little line like 5th graders, and quietly wait to get into an event.

Like during the dances when conga lines were being broken up and there was threats you would be kicked out if you did it... wow... angry angry people. Even I was annoyed at that one.

[Kaiware]

Maybe if a counter is put up on the pre-registration numbers, it might bring up the numbers faster.
Think about this- On the front page of the kumoricon website it says something like this:

Registered- 5,426/8,000
Help us reach 8,000 so we can have kumoricon at the Oregon Convention Center!!

I think that is a FABULOUS idea.  I agree that there are plenty of hotels close enough to the convention center to work just fine.  That convention center is beautiful and roomy inside and I think that once we reach the size needed it would be a great and comfortable fit.  So much room for photo shoots inside out of the rain, and good lighting for them too! <3

Either way, I am going to go warn staff of the restaurants by the hilton next year (unless K-staff is already planning to do that) before kumoricon.  I felt so bad for the subway people running out of bread and not having enough staff scheduled to cover our rushes.  

[Kumi-chan]

I have to say, I was not happy with my experiences at this year's con. To me, even Anime Evolution 2008 felt better-organized and better-run, even with the screwups with venue. This was my second Kumori Con, and if not for certain commitments I likely would not return for 2010.

The venue was either way too undersized or poorly utilized, which I'm not entirely sure. I had to deal with rude behavior, mostly from con staff, including getting screamed at for using an elevator we were perfectly authorized to use. The particular staffer changed his attitude entirely when we pointed our badges out, which I found even more disgusting honestly. All con attendees deserve to be treated with respect. It was inexcusible for him to treat us that way. I've worked customer service for ten years, and you do not speak to your customers like that regardless of the situation. Never mind the hotel staff, which the con has limited control over: their own people need to be impressed with the concept that they are serving their customers.

The hotel staff I spoke to were for the large part extremely helpful, but I was very careful to be polite towards them myself, since I knew most of them were dealing with an unfamiliar situation. The hotel security were rude, though. I do agree that a little more explanation why we weren't allowed to go certain ways would have gone a long way towards reducing some of the friction.

And not to contradict myself, but the attendees...the thing I was dreading most, from my experiences last year, were the vast numbers of immaturely-acting con attendees. The situation was worse this year. Whether this was due to the lack of park, or increased attendance, or a combination, I've never been to a con where it was this bad. I'm very quickly getting sick of dealing with those who are rude, loud, and aggressively obnoxious just for the hell of it. I don't care if you think you're being cute or funny, you're making the con less enjoyable for the rest of us who can act like civilized humans despite being subculture fans. And I'm tired of being grouped with you because I happen to be a part of that same culture.
You're making us look bad, and it makes it harder on the rest of us who aren't actively trying to alienate the general public. Personally, I'd appreciate a little less selfishness on your part.

I know they can't control everyone, but there has to be a way to reduce the purely asinine behavior without yojimbo or hotel security just screaming at everyone to get out of the way. Revoking a few badges might help, particularly for those who were flat out harassing others despite repeated requests to stop. Respect from staff would go a long way, but so would a little more firmness towards those who really should've had proper adult supervision on hand to keep them under control.

To anyone who was generally polite, considerate, and friendly...and I know you're in the majority, and that the others seem to take up more space because they leave a bigger impression...thank you so much. You made the con bearable.

I enjoyed the dealer's hall, since everyone down there seemed much better behaved and more organized, and that's why I spent the better part of two days down there. The situation in the lobby was horrible. There has to be an easily accessible space for people to hang out at conventions where they're not going to interfere or bother other hotel guests or the general public, and the two levels at the Hilton and some sidewalk space don't cut it spacewise. A park two blocks away is not a good option, particularly if the homeless/drunks situation was as bad as has been reported.

If next year is anything like this year, I'll be spending all three days in the dealer's hall. The dealers and artists were consistantly friendly and polite, and they deserve kudos for that despite being shoved into a somewhat depressing location. The feeling of community down there was much more what I expect from a con.

[murder_of_raven]

If you try to ban something like that then you'll get a crap load of pissed of attendees.
Signing, shouting, and what not while waiting in lines are what make line waiting fun, infact, it's the random stuff other atendees do that actually make the con for me. It will seem like your trying to make them stand in a neat little line like 5th graders, and quietly wait to get into an event.

Although I am one of the people who is very annoyed by this behavior, I have to also agree that now seems like a terrible time to implement potentially unpopular rules. Like it or not, the Kcon staff need to realize that a lot of people (including myself) are going to come next year weary of a repeat offense. In my opinion, we should focus on improving the safety and organization situations and leave implementing Sakuracon-style "politeness rules" for a later convention.

Then again, I think adding a note that if you are "loud and disrespectful" during a panel you will be expelled from it would only be fair considering the panel rooms are already too small for everyone who wants to attend them.

[gladimus]

Maybe if a counter is put up on the pre-registration numbers, it might bring up the numbers faster.
Think about this- On the front page of the kumoricon website it says something like this:

Registered- 5,426/8,000
Help us reach 8,000 so we can have kumoricon at the Oregon Convention Center!!

I think that is a FABULOUS idea.  I agree that there are plenty of hotels close enough to the convention center to work just fine.  That convention center is beautiful and roomy inside and I think that once we reach the size needed it would be a great and comfortable fit.  So much room for photo shoots inside out of the rain, and good lighting for them too! <3

Either way, I am going to go warn staff of the restaurants by the hilton next year (unless K-staff is already planning to do that) before kumoricon.  I felt so bad for the subway people running out of bread and not having enough staff scheduled to cover our rushes.  

I really do look forward to the day Kumoricon gets to be in a big place like that. I'm sure with better initiative to make it happen, it will! It's up to everyone to work together for a better Kumoricon <3

[gladimus]

I know I'm posting a lot but I find it kind of sad that some people say the only way to help is to stay for the Rant and Rave or Join the K-con Staff...
And that's not fair or right. I think everyone involved in K-con, attending, volunteering, selling, whatever, has every right to share their opinons and should be regarded and thought about as legitimate suggestions. Not everyone coudl attend the rant and rave, like me. I was feeling sick and my costume was making me overheat so I had to go home early on monday. And I can't join the staff, as much as I'd like to help, I can't handle stress well like some people and I had other plans for things I want to do at the con because I love workshops, panels, and events and I love to perform in skits. (sadly this year I wasn't able to because our group wound up losing a lot of people.. Next year will hopefully go better)
So not everyone has the option to join or desire to join the staff, and not everyone could make it to rant and rave, but that doesn't mean they don't want to help.
Sorry for the little rant, but I really wanted to make that point to those who keep saying to join, go to the rant, or shut up.

[Slash5150]

I know I'm posting a lot but I find it kind of sad that some people say the only way to help is to stay for the Rant and Rave or Join the K-con Staff...
And that's not fair or right. I think everyone involved in K-con, attending, volunteering, selling, whatever, has every right to share their opinons and should be regarded and thought about as legitimate suggestions. Not everyone coudl attend the rant and rave, like me. I was feeling sick and my costume was making me overheat so I had to go home early on monday. And I can't join the staff, as much as I'd like to help, I can't handle stress well like some people and I had other plans for things I want to do at the con because I love workshops, panels, and events and I love to perform in skits. (sadly this year I wasn't able to because our group wound up losing a lot of people.. Next year will hopefully go better)
So not everyone has the option to join or desire to join the staff, and not everyone could make it to rant and rave, but that doesn't mean they don't want to help.
Sorry for the little rant, but I really wanted to make that point to those who keep saying to join, go to the rant, or shut up.

If I am thinking properly, its not that the board is against people sharing their ideas and stuff like that, but its that everyone wants all of these changes, but the staff that is on hand makes it hard for them to actually come to fruition.

Now you say you can't be staff, I'm curious why you can't be, unless its the thing about stress, and really, depending on where you're working, there isn't so much stress as there is just being tired.  I worked nearly 60 hours during the 2 and a half days of con, and I really didn't get stressed, but I did get a bit tired, then staff pres saved me several times ^_^

[MiriaRose]

I know I'm posting a lot but I find it kind of sad that some people say the only way to help is to stay for the Rant and Rave or Join the K-con Staff...
And that's not fair or right. I think everyone involved in K-con, attending, volunteering, selling, whatever, has every right to share their opinons and should be regarded and thought about as legitimate suggestions. Not everyone coudl attend the rant and rave, like me. I was feeling sick and my costume was making me overheat so I had to go home early on monday. And I can't join the staff, as much as I'd like to help, I can't handle stress well like some people and I had other plans for things I want to do at the con because I love workshops, panels, and events and I love to perform in skits. (sadly this year I wasn't able to because our group wound up losing a lot of people.. Next year will hopefully go better)
So not everyone has the option to join or desire to join the staff, and not everyone could make it to rant and rave, but that doesn't mean they don't want to help.
Sorry for the little rant, but I really wanted to make that point to those who keep saying to join, go to the rant, or shut up.

If I am thinking properly, its not that the board is against people sharing their ideas and stuff like that, but its that everyone wants all of these changes, but the staff that is on hand makes it hard for them to actually come to fruition.

Now you say you can't be staff, I'm curious why you can't be, unless its the thing about stress, and really, depending on where you're working, there isn't so much stress as there is just being tired.  I worked nearly 60 hours during the 2 and a half days of con, and I really didn't get stressed, but I did get a bit tired, then staff pres saved me several times ^_^

Not all of us are old enough to join staff, though.

[XFD]

Even if you randomly joined as staff, the inevitable challenge is dealing with a group's particular set of politics. If you plan on engaging something like that (be it for a con or the workplace) you're going to have to fight an uphill battle to do your job and play politics with your superiors. If your politics as-is are compatible, you're fine.

[Jamiche]

You only have to be 16 to be staff.

And if you aren't old enough for staff, or can only spare a couple of hours any given day, there is always volunteering.  Even if you are only able to sit at Info Booth and help answer questions, or watch a viewing room for a couple of hours... every little bit of time you can spare helps us.

[JeffT]

The other personal RnR that I have is the whole thing with photo staff.  I mean cmon you guys, I was told that there were three people on photo staff, 4 if you include Jawni.  If someone comes up to you saying they want to join you and help out doing photos, don’t go and tell them “you’re full”.  Yeah there are 3 spots, but no one is being paid for this.  Its free work and free publicity, I severely doubt you are bound by some policy of 3 people max, also being told that you picked people without any like portfolio type proof made me a bit salty too.   If it was a misunderstanding on that part, then my apologies.

Actually, it is official board policy (a motion passed and voted on by the board) to limit staff positions, except a few specific ones which are in the "as many as we can get" category, to a specific number. People were approved for the position early based on the lack of demand for the position in previous years. I had already decided before speaking with you to recommend to the next director to make this an application-based position, and not to fill it until close to the con so we can have the most fair application process. But until then, I cannot take the position from people for whom it had been approved, as that would not be fair to those people.

Again I made clear to you that you were free to take photos in general attendance areas. Every year, we have many attendees who offer free use of their photos to the convention, who get (and ask for) no reward for this. Honestly, that fact has made me question whether to keep a position dedicated to Photography Staff at all (though that decision would be made by next year's director). Your request was for special access to the VIP dinner, where, as it turns out, we decided not to have any photos taken either by photography staff, press, or anyone else.

[pyronine]

You only have to be 16 to be staff.

And if you aren't old enough for staff, or can only spare a couple of hours any given day, there is always volunteering.  Even if you are only able to sit at Info Booth and help answer questions, or watch a viewing room for a couple of hours... every little bit of time you can spare helps us.

I agree, every little bit helps, i helped out for 2 1/2 days and got tremendous thank yous from many people including the director and assistant director of operations. I volunteered to make it a better con, the more that help out the easier it will be on everyone.

[kylite]

we warned subway, we warned them all! repeatedly! they just never listen... until its too late.

starbucks listened *laughs*

[Meganekko]

hahahaha!

I remember subway people freaking out back when we were in Vancouver, there was a terrified man making Vincent Valentine a sammich.

[Slash5150]

The other personal RnR that I have is the whole thing with photo staff.  I mean cmon you guys, I was told that there were three people on photo staff, 4 if you include Jawni.  If someone comes up to you saying they want to join you and help out doing photos, don’t go and tell them “you’re full”.  Yeah there are 3 spots, but no one is being paid for this.  Its free work and free publicity, I severely doubt you are bound by some policy of 3 people max, also being told that you picked people without any like portfolio type proof made me a bit salty too.   If it was a misunderstanding on that part, then my apologies.

Actually, it is official board policy (a motion passed and voted on by the board) to limit staff positions, except a few specific ones which are in the "as many as we can get" category, to a specific number. People were approved for the position early based on the lack of demand for the position in previous years. I had already decided before speaking with you to recommend to the next director to make this an application-based position, and not to fill it until close to the con so we can have the most fair application process. But until then, I cannot take the position from people for whom it had been approved, as that would not be fair to those people.

Again I made clear to you that you were free to take photos in general attendance areas. Every year, we have many attendees who offer free use of their photos to the convention, who get (and ask for) no reward for this. Honestly, that fact has made me question whether to keep a position dedicated to Photography Staff at all (though that decision would be made by next year's director). Your request was for special access to the VIP dinner, where, as it turns out, we decided not to have any photos taken either by photography staff, press, or anyone else.

I totally don't remember posting that RnR here, I thought I did it in the staff thread (unless you pulled it there from here to prevent mass "OMG I WANNA BE STAFF-ness)  But I totally understand the VIP part, but I SWEAR up and down, left and right that the pocket guide changed between when before con started, and when con started, I'll have to check again.

I understand limiting staff positions, but there is a way to limit it without completely shutting the door so to speak.  I mean if 500 people came to you saying they want to be on photostaff, then yeah, limiting needs to be done or some kind of screening process. 

[onizuka43]

This was my fourth K-Con and I was very sad to say it was my least favorite of them all. I had though early on in the year to try and offer to help and become a staff member, but other commitments stopped my from doing that this year.

The Friday registration I felt didn't work at all. I had pre-registered last year and yet I still had to stand in a line for hours, it was nice that i didn't miss anything because of it but this is totally missing the point of pre-registering in my opinion.

As for the actual con I was very disappointed with many things. When I had first got there and entered the lobby in my costume just to be told I had to take off my mask sucked. I had worked very hard to get my costume together for this and then to be told that my entrance was for not because I had a mask really took a lot of the fun out of this event from the very beginning.

Then there was the trying to find where an event was going to take place. I had to get to three different places just to learn where the cat-ear making event was going to be, and everyone I asked told me a different place. The lines were also poorly done, a group of us waited next to the esculator for the voice-over panel where we were told when we asked thirty minutes before the event where to line-up. Yet when we got there an all different line was waiting right there. We got in, but this should have never happened in the first place.

Also many people seemed, hotel and con staff, to not even give my girlfriend and I the time of day. We would ask them a question and they would just brush us off. I know they had been working many hours and everything but they know what they sign-up for.

I did know the hotel was going to be a pain many months ago, but that's because I go to PSU up the street and have seen the Hilton frequently. It even then seemed like a bad place to hold event such as this, though complaining about the venue is much like complaining about the rain here. Also the parking was going to be a bit of a pain, though there are ways around that.

The biggest redeeming thing I had for this event was the panels were overall excellent. Both the Webcomics101 and the Photoshop Layering panels were well done, fun, and very interactive. Kirk Thornton Q+A and his Voice-over panel were both fantastic. Anime Jeopardy was very entertaining as well. Though we both usually entered the events ticked at the way we were treated before the events, the panels usually seemed to make it worth it.

I was really trying to get a friend to go this year and she fell out, and I'm very glad that she didn't go. If my first year had gone like this one I wouldn't have gone that second year. I don't have much to say to make it better and I'm sorry, but I feel that it is important for people, whoever they maybe, to hear what the average con goer had to go through this year. I'm not a hater and just want to start something, these are the events that two people had to go through this year, it was frustrating because I know this could have been much better and I hope it is next year. Though I know that stuff won't happen if we remain silent and that's why I posted this.

I hope that my schedule will allow me the time to help out this upcoming year so that I can do something productive for this event that has given my such fun and memorable times. I hope to be around much more as well.

[MichaelEvans]

Do you know if the Pizza Schmizza and/or Carl's Jr did anything?

I know for a fact that the staff on Friday didn't have a clue at Schmizza... at least the one I informed.

[AllyKat]

I cannot honestly remember who posted it and I am NOT trying to drag up the OCC in
this thread again but I feel like a record needs to be set straight. People who have NOT
done research are assuming things about the OCC that are just not true.

If all the OCC was is a giant exhibitors hall, then it'd be called the EXPO CENTRE.

Here is a link to the layouts of the OCC:

http://www.travelportland.com/meeting_planners/facilities/convention_ctr_up_plan.html

and to quote the site:

• Portland Ballroom: 35,000 square feet/divisible into eight sections with a 16,000-square-foot lobby
• Oregon Ballroom: 25,000 square feet/divisible into four sections that are perfect for large breakouts
• 255,000 square feet of contiguous exhibit space with drive-in access from three street-level entries
• 50 meeting rooms with 18-foot ceilings and individualized lighting sets
• Lobbies and public spaces adorned with $2 million in artwork
• Two VIP Suites overlooking their respective exhibit halls
• U.S. Green Building Council LEED-EB Silver certified
• High-speed Internet and Wi-Fi connections throughout
• Concessions that serve both the exhibit halls and lobbies
• Two Starbucks on-site
• Award-winning customer service
• Competitive prices

So, just as a PoC, the OCC is not just one big room, but actually double the rooms and double the space of the
hilton executive tower/downtown hilton.

(and prolly also twice the price.... )

~Allykat

[Rathany]

(and prolly also twice the price.... )

~Allykat

Far more than twice since we don't get the 'room block subsidies' as has been explained in other threads. 

[AllyKat]

@ Rathany:

Good point. I wish we could find out just how Sak gets such good deals on their rooms from competing hotels...

In a perfect world I'd imagine the conversation to go like this;

"Hello (insert hotel name here) manager! My name is (insert conrep name here) and I am calling to inform you
and discuss with you our organizations up-coming event for the 2010 convention year. We are a large fan-based
convention in need of rooms to accomodate our projected 10,000+ attendants. We are looking to all the hotel's
in the area to find out what kind of rate promotions we can offer to our guests to encourage them to stay at
your location, which is conveniently placed near the convention space. How competitive a rate can you provide us
with in order to get you sold out for that weekend?"

Hotel's love not having to worry about vacant rooms, and recognize competition. If we can get them to compete with
eachothers rates maybe we can get similar rates. Just because we aren't using there meeting space may not always
play against our favor.

~Allykat

[Rathany]

@ Rathany:

Good point. I wish we could find out just how Sak gets such good deals on their rooms from competing hotels...

In a perfect world I'd imagine the conversation to go like this;

"Hello (insert hotel name here) manager! My name is (insert conrep name here) and I am calling to inform you
and discuss with you our organizations up-coming event for the 2010 convention year. We are a large fan-based
convention in need of rooms to accomodate our projected 10,000+ attendants. We are looking to all the hotel's
in the area to find out what kind of rate promotions we can offer to our guests to encourage them to stay at
your location, which is conveniently placed near the convention space. How competitive a rate can you provide us
with in order to get you sold out for that weekend?"

Hotel's love not having to worry about vacant rooms, and recognize competition. If we can get them to compete with
eachothers rates maybe we can get similar rates. Just because we aren't using there meeting space may not always
play against our favor.

~Allykat

Well, this is why last year we invited Sak's hotel liaison to our exec meetings and why that same guy is our assistant hotel liaison this year.  It's not so much the room rates that I was talking about, but how filling rooms pays for events space at the convention center. 

At this point I am half tempted to schedule a special Kcon meeting called "Dawn explains hotels, room blocks and park access"

[CMD Productions]

To clarify we get discounts on the meeting spaces when we book room blocks at the hotel. I can say to a manager I'll book 400 room nights with our guests if you give me 90% off what you would charge to rent the ballroom. Thus con goers stay in rooms at a cheaper rate and we get cheap space to have events in. At the convention center we would have to pay the full price for the convention space. Thus what we would pay $1,000 for a meeting room at a hotel with a bunch of room nights becomes $10,000. This is the root difficulty of the convention space. It costs much much much more because we get not a discount on event space because our con goers are not booking room at the convention center itself. They don't make that money back in roomnights so charge full price for meeting space.  

[AllyKat]

LOL YEAH!

"Dawn Explains it All!"

But honestly... That makes sense, cooperating with the hotel and it's own meeting rooms to get them for
cheaper by basically garunteeing a sell-out weekend. I could deffinetely see that being the easiest way...
UGH! PORTLAND! why do you have to not have EXACTLY what we want!?

So, the next question is... has the original team from U of O confronted that university about hosting the
event there ever? If so, what kind of situation would that be? I've been to events hosted by U of O, mostly
speech tournaments and leadership conferences but I imagine that the quirky duck-town might be interested
in us as another money maker... and U of O dorms are pretty nice...

just a thought?

~Allykat

[Xixecal]

There should have been more signs. WAY more signs. And the hotel layout map should have been part of the schedule book.

Some of the layouts and things were just plain ridiculous. Lines going outside the building and back in after twenty feet? Having to walk around the building to go down to the parking level? And in a city known for its RAIN? There should have never been any need to go outside to get to the events that weren't in a different building. (And having events in a different building seems like a horrible idea to me, but oh well...)

The most confusing part was the hotel/con staff arbitrarily blocking off the lower level at random times. "BALLROOM'S CLOSED" "But I just want to get to the gami--" "BALLROOM'S CLOSED GO AWAY"

[Himeno]

At this point I am half tempted to schedule a special Kcon meeting called "Dawn explains hotels, room blocks and park access"

If I didn't live 8,000 miles away from Portland, I would very much like to go to something like that.

[Slash5150]

Has anyone thought of perhaps some kind of online stream?  I'm just throwing this out there because I'm going to be straight up honest...the "con meetings" are terrible.  The fact that a 20 minute youtube video can be uploaded and basically explains the ENTIRE meeting really does not make me want to spend the money and gas to go to such meetings that are outside of my city. 

But online streaming can be a viable option with things like ustream and what not

[Meganekko]

At this point I am half tempted to schedule a special Kcon meeting called "Dawn explains hotels, room blocks and park access"

I'd like to see that! ... although I already get the jist of that topic, still would be nice.

The video would also be nice, and reusable.

[Rathany]

Has anyone thought of perhaps some kind of online stream?  I'm just throwing this out there because I'm going to be straight up honest...the "con meetings" are terrible.  The fact that a 20 minute youtube video can be uploaded and basically explains the ENTIRE meeting really does not make me want to spend the money and gas to go to such meetings that are outside of my city. 

But online streaming can be a viable option with things like ustream and what not

We tried Skype last year.  We often had techinical problems with it and only ONE person ever tried to Skype into our meetings.  Detailed minutes are posted by our handsome Secretary. 

[Meganekko]

Skype is a waste of time, but if it was just a video of an explination or two and hosted on youtube, it could easily be linked for all the people who keep whining about there actually being hotels near OCC and that they could walk. Since they are missing the point of the room block=money for con.

[gladimus]

I know I'm posting a lot but I find it kind of sad that some people say the only way to help is to stay for the Rant and Rave or Join the K-con Staff...
And that's not fair or right. I think everyone involved in K-con, attending, volunteering, selling, whatever, has every right to share their opinons and should be regarded and thought about as legitimate suggestions. Not everyone coudl attend the rant and rave, like me. I was feeling sick and my costume was making me overheat so I had to go home early on monday. And I can't join the staff, as much as I'd like to help, I can't handle stress well like some people and I had other plans for things I want to do at the con because I love workshops, panels, and events and I love to perform in skits. (sadly this year I wasn't able to because our group wound up losing a lot of people.. Next year will hopefully go better)
So not everyone has the option to join or desire to join the staff, and not everyone could make it to rant and rave, but that doesn't mean they don't want to help.
Sorry for the little rant, but I really wanted to make that point to those who keep saying to join, go to the rant, or shut up.

If I am thinking properly, its not that the board is against people sharing their ideas and stuff like that, but its that everyone wants all of these changes, but the staff that is on hand makes it hard for them to actually come to fruition.

Now you say you can't be staff, I'm curious why you can't be, unless its the thing about stress, and really, depending on where you're working, there isn't so much stress as there is just being tired.  I worked nearly 60 hours during the 2 and a half days of con, and I really didn't get stressed, but I did get a bit tired, then staff pres saved me several times ^_^

I can't handle being relied on by a lot of people, I get panic attacks and asthma when I feel pressured and I start going into coughing fits. I had a panic attack nearly from just the crowding on the first day, for crying out loud >__>;
I also have bad memory and I can't pay attention to one thing for very long, so I'd be spacing out a lot. That's because I have a bad case of ADHD.
I can't even keep a group of 3 people together and under control, so I don't know how I could possibly handle anything more XD

[Slash5150]

Has anyone thought of perhaps some kind of online stream?  I'm just throwing this out there because I'm going to be straight up honest...the "con meetings" are terrible.  The fact that a 20 minute youtube video can be uploaded and basically explains the ENTIRE meeting really does not make me want to spend the money and gas to go to such meetings that are outside of my city. 

But online streaming can be a viable option with things like ustream and what not

We tried Skype last year.  We often had techinical problems with it and only ONE person ever tried to Skype into our meetings.  Detailed minutes are posted by our handsome Secretary. 

Not Skype.  Ustream.  Just so that people can actually see it and watch it. 

[Himeno]

Since they are missing the point of the room block=money for con.

At least North America has hotel based venues that are able to host medium-large scale conventions.
The biggest hotel in Australia can't even host an event for 2000 people.

[Rathany]

Has anyone thought of perhaps some kind of online stream?  I'm just throwing this out there because I'm going to be straight up honest...the "con meetings" are terrible.  The fact that a 20 minute youtube video can be uploaded and basically explains the ENTIRE meeting really does not make me want to spend the money and gas to go to such meetings that are outside of my city. 

But online streaming can be a viable option with things like ustream and what not

We tried Skype last year.  We often had techinical problems with it and only ONE person ever tried to Skype into our meetings.  Detailed minutes are posted by our handsome Secretary. 

Not Skype.  Ustream.  Just so that people can actually see it and watch it. 

Ok - What equipment, subscription costs and tech expertise would be needed for this?  It would have to be run by people who commit to coming to every single meeting early and having it set up on time.  

We tried to find people to be General Meeting Tech Staff last year and never found a single willing person.  What tech there is is done by the execs.  

[Slash5150]

Has anyone thought of perhaps some kind of online stream?  I'm just throwing this out there because I'm going to be straight up honest...the "con meetings" are terrible.  The fact that a 20 minute youtube video can be uploaded and basically explains the ENTIRE meeting really does not make me want to spend the money and gas to go to such meetings that are outside of my city. 

But online streaming can be a viable option with things like ustream and what not

We tried Skype last year.  We often had techinical problems with it and only ONE person ever tried to Skype into our meetings.  Detailed minutes are posted by our handsome Secretary. 

Not Skype.  Ustream.  Just so that people can actually see it and watch it. 

Ok - What equipment, subscription costs and tech expertise would be needed for this?  It would have to be run by people who commit to coming to every single meeting early and having it set up on time.  

We tried to find people to be General Meeting Tech Staff last year and never found a single willing person.  What tech there is is done by the execs.  

Webcam.  Thats it lol. Well..sound is usually nice too :-p

But ustream tv is pretty much the big name in things now, that and justin tv

[Meganekko]

Heheh, see I just wanted the hotel block video....

There's minutes for regular meetings.

[MichaelEvans]

Any kind of digital video camera.  I think I saw -a- camera at our last meeting, but to be honest after fixing my $180 camera (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16830180213) to a tripod it can capture 848x480 @ 30 FPS (progressive MJPEG inside .mov).  I'd want to capture the audio separately with a laptop and higher quality mic and/or feed directly from the mixer.

The only major downside to capturing video with a picture camera is that the image stabilizer and focusing system are de-activated in that mode.

If someone has an actual digital camera that can do better that's another possiblity.  Maybe we could get one of the AMV guys who actually has software licensed to produce (various patent encumbered complaint) compressed videos.  I can -technically- produce them, they'd just not be legal... Or there's Ogg's Theora or the newer (still being encoder/decoder optimized but format fixed) (BBC/etc) Dirac format.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theora
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirac_(codec) (Fixed the URL to an explicit one to include the last ) )

[JeffT]

There should have been more signs. WAY more signs. And the hotel layout map should have been part of the schedule book.

Agreed on the signs, and I'm sorry about that. I didn't realize how critical this was and unfortunately a few last-minute difficulties decreased the number of signs I was able to print. I'm sure this will be much improved for next year and I've talked with the person who will be most likely the Publicity Director for next year about ways to greatly improve this.

The hotel map, however, was located in both books.

[@random]

Has anyone thought of perhaps some kind of online stream?  I'm just throwing this out there because I'm going to be straight up honest...the "con meetings" are terrible.  The fact that a 20 minute youtube video can be uploaded and basically explains the ENTIRE meeting really does not make me want to spend the money and gas to go to such meetings that are outside of my city. 

But online streaming can be a viable option with things like ustream and what not

We tried Skype last year.  We often had techinical problems with it and only ONE person ever tried to Skype into our meetings.  Detailed minutes are posted by our handsome Secretary. 

Not Skype.  Ustream.  Just so that people can actually see it and watch it. 

Ok - What equipment, subscription costs and tech expertise would be needed for this?  It would have to be run by people who commit to coming to every single meeting early and having it set up on time.  

We tried to find people to be General Meeting Tech Staff last year and never found a single willing person.  What tech there is is done by the execs.  

Webcam.  Thats it lol. Well..sound is usually nice too :-p

But ustream tv is pretty much the big name in things now, that and justin tv

If you can get it up and running, that would be wonderful.

One of the major obstacles that would keep me from rejoining staff ('04, '05) is the impracticality of making regular trips from Seattle to Portland. And I would imagine there are a number of people in the same boat.

[XFD]

I got a great response about why the convention can't split into two for next year for age group centric things, but how about this:

Given that the con is stuck at the Hilton, and the lack of space for everyone is non existant, what about stretching the days the con runs out a bit further and then weigh out age-group oriented content for crowd control. So, for the sake of argument, say Day 1 starts on Saturday. Saturday is all emphasized for the really young group. All of the viewing rooms, panels and such are targeted at this group. Sunday is setup to be about 50% kiddie, and then the other is the teen group. Monday becomes 1/2 early teen content and 1/2 mature teen (hahahahah) content, finally Tuesday would be 1/2 mature teen and then adult/18+ content.

Sell two flavors of badges. The K badge would be valid for Sat/Sun, the G(eneral) badge would be valid Sun/Mon and the last badge would be S(uper/whatever) Monday/tuesday.

1. Keeps it in a single weekend.
2. Manages crowd & flow control
3. Keeps scheduling more relaxed
4. Makes the Yojimbo's job easier since the badge criteria is far more simple.
5. Deals with being at the same hotel again.

[oslapedo]

That would complicate things so much. So if an adult, a child and a teenager all go to the con and share a room together they'll have to stay for all three days but won't actually get to do anything on some days? Hm...

[XFD]

People have organized rooms with greater challenges before.

If the teen is chained to the parent, they're likely to be in the mid group, and the parent is going to be keeping the youngest child in tow (assuming all 3 are a part of the family). The teen could do something for one day or decide to tag along for all the child-oriented content.

The older teens with more freedom are far less likely to have this constraint.

[Himeno]

I got a great response about why the convention can't split into two for next year for age group centric things, but how about this:

Given that the con is stuck at the Hilton, and the lack of space for everyone is non existant, what about stretching the days the con runs out a bit further and then weigh out age-group oriented content for crowd control. So, for the sake of argument, say Day 1 starts on Saturday. Saturday is all emphasized for the really young group. All of the viewing rooms, panels and such are targeted at this group. Sunday is setup to be about 50% kiddie, and then the other is the teen group. Monday becomes 1/2 early teen content and 1/2 mature teen (hahahahah) content, finally Tuesday would be 1/2 mature teen and then adult/18+ content.

Sell two flavors of badges. The K badge would be valid for Sat/Sun, the G(eneral) badge would be valid Sun/Mon and the last badge would be S(uper/whatever) Monday/tuesday.

1. Keeps it in a single weekend.
2. Manages crowd & flow control
3. Keeps scheduling more relaxed
4. Makes the Yojimbo's job easier since the badge criteria is far more simple.
5. Deals with being at the same hotel again.

I can think of so many reasons why that wouldn't work. Adding another day without the staff to support it is just one of them.

[Silvamord]

I'm sure another person adding to the mountain of complaints will not really help matters, but I really feel I need to tell someone about this and I see the oppertunity.

This is my 4th consecutive year going to Kumoricon, so suffice to say I've had my share of experiences here. In past years, I've seen the overcrowding, the bad parking, the less than friendly hotel staff, etc... but this year was the absolutely worst... In fact, it was so bad that I didn't spend 1 full day at the convention this weekend. I brought my boyfriend with me, who had never been to a convention before, and I was almost ashamed of taking him to it! I could rant all day about it, because I sure did on Monday to one of my friends, but I think it'd be more effective if I put it in a more legible format;

The hotel was horrible because:

• The staff was not friendly
• The location was difficult to find without Mapquest.
• Parking, however many garages there were, was difficult to remember.
• There were many transients hanging around the hotel begging for money because it was in the heart of downtown.
• The hotel was cramped in the lobby, hallways, bathrooms, and sidewalk. In fact, the only place it wasn't cramped was in the vendors garage
• Navigation was more challenging than in recent years. Myself and several people I spoke to were having a hard time locating events, panels, and rooms. Between the ballroom level, 1st floor, 2nd floor, 3rd floor, kareoke floor, and the executive tower, it was difficult to find anything!
• One or two events got moved without the pocket guides being updated! I tried to find something in the creation station and even the staff member I talked to didn't know that it had been moved from the 3rd floor to the executive tower! So I missed the event... I understand the website had updates, but that didn't help me when I was walking around K-con and there was no signage.
• The small staircase you had to take to get to the 3rd floor without using the elevator was difficult to find and very cramped
• Unlike in some recent years, there was no nearby park (that concrete/brick open area does not classify as a park!) within convenient distance. Due to this, most of the con-goers were loitering on the sidewalks and blocking entrances, which the hotel staff voiced their problems with often.
• As if navigation was not difficult enough, there were specific 'routes' set up in the hotel to get to/from places. I understand this stops congestion in areas like escalators, but it made the roundabout navigation even more confusing!
• Although the area is awesome, it was difficult to navigate around town even with the map! But maybe that's just my groups problem...

Ticketed Events:

• Yes, this cuts down wait time and line congestion
• I couldn't get a straight answer from anyone on where to get tickets!
• By the time I did get to the booth for tickets, they were out of the ones I wanted!
• I feel bad for people who don't attend the first day and/or don't attend early mornings, because they probably didn't get any tickets either
• I overheard many people talking about similar problems that I had!
• Although the concept is cool, it severaly limits fun activities when you don't have the ability to get the tickets ahead of time.

Other problems I noticed:

• I don't know what was going on with the photobooth, but my group waited in line around 60 minutes and still didn't make it to the front of the line! The hallway was hot from lack of AC, narrow, and there were some people in front of us saying they'd been waiting quite a bit longer than us. We got so frustrated, we left and never did get a photo.
• Events (that weren't ticketed) were badly scheduled and lacking in variety. Several times, my group could either not find the event we wanted to attend or there were no events that weren't full. Most of the time, we ended up just sitting around and waiting for an event.
• Even sitting around became a problem, due to the dreaded 'no loitering/blocking/sitting' areas. So you just ended up with a bunch of people standing around.

I liked the convention space we had in 08, conventiently located next to Lloyd Center Mall so there was ample parking, a mall food court, and a massive park right across the street! Sure, it was crowded, but that's why everyone just went outside or into the mall! I even liked the Vancouver Hilton, because Ester Short Park was right across the street and that absorbed much of the crowd when things got congested. I sincerely hope that if they're truely planning to have K-con 2010 in the same location, that things shape up dramatically, otherwise I know several people who may be considering skipping next year...




Again, sorry if this is a bit of a rant! But K-con 09 has got to be the worst one I've ever attended!

[Silvamord]

I got a great response about why the convention can't split into two for next year for age group centric things, but how about this:

Given that the con is stuck at the Hilton, and the lack of space for everyone is non existant, what about stretching the days the con runs out a bit further and then weigh out age-group oriented content for crowd control. So, for the sake of argument, say Day 1 starts on Saturday. Saturday is all emphasized for the really young group. All of the viewing rooms, panels and such are targeted at this group. Sunday is setup to be about 50% kiddie, and then the other is the teen group. Monday becomes 1/2 early teen content and 1/2 mature teen (hahahahah) content, finally Tuesday would be 1/2 mature teen and then adult/18+ content.

Sell two flavors of badges. The K badge would be valid for Sat/Sun, the G(eneral) badge would be valid Sun/Mon and the last badge would be S(uper/whatever) Monday/tuesday.

1. Keeps it in a single weekend.
2. Manages crowd & flow control
3. Keeps scheduling more relaxed
4. Makes the Yojimbo's job easier since the badge criteria is far more simple.
5. Deals with being at the same hotel again.

The biggest problem is that many people don't want to buy multiple badges. Everyone I know buys the full badge, so they can attend all three days. Only being able to attend 2 would mean buying 2 badges (one for Sat/Sun, and one for Mon/Tues) and that would get costly.
In support of keeping it in one weekend, many people can only go because it's Labor Day weekend and a national holiday. People have jobs, especially people in my age group, and we can't miss work for a convention.

[DancingTofu]

• Unlike in some recent years, there was no nearby park (that concrete/brick open area does not classify as a park!) within convenient distance. Due to this, most of the con-goers were loitering on the sidewalks and blocking entrances, which the hotel staff voiced their problems with often.

The park blocks; 5 full city blocks of lush, green parks, were a block and a half south and west, in that order.  Lowns Dale Square was 2 block east and 1 block south.  Neighboring that, Chapman Square.  6 blocks east, the expansive and Beautiful Portland Waterfront Park.  The area you're referring to is Pioneer Courthouse square, which is a fantastic location to hang out, relax, and socialize.

Could you at least peek at google maps before making claims like this?  Just because nobody told you about them doesn't mean they don't exist.  You could have asked around.  No PSU student could possible not be able to tell you about the Park Blocks at the very least, and PSU students are definitely not difficult to find at Kumoricon.  Portland is one of the most heavily forested major metropolitan areas in the world.  Being more than a few blocks from a park is nearly impossible.  I live in inner Portland and there are EIGHT parks within twenty minutes walking distance from my house, and these are just the ones that I happen to be aware of.

[Sakis01]

I know there have been several conversations about different subject of this matter, but I'm just putting my opinion out cause I think that it seems natural to let out some steam about the Hilton.
I honestly wasn't aware of staff rudeness, but I have heard stories from my friends that were offended by how they were treated.
The worst thing that did happen was the rave. I had several girls who were minors that were really excited about going, but it seemed like the staff extended the time for the rave to start so they can avoid minors going. I have my girls go up to the room alone and unhappy for waiting a few hours in the rain.

[Slash5150]

I don't really know if this is the place to post this, but I'm more than willing to throw my hat into the ring for director of photography for next years K-con.  It A) guarantees me returning, as I'm sure many people are happy that I would be, and B) I do this at school.  I run the layout, design and pretty much the photography aspect for my paper so I know what I'm doing.

[XFD]

The biggest problem is that many people don't want to buy multiple badges. Everyone I know buys the full badge, so they can attend all three days. Only being able to attend 2 would mean buying 2 badges (one for Sat/Sun, and one for Mon/Tues) and that would get costly.
In support of keeping it in one weekend, many people can only go because it's Labor Day weekend and a national holiday. People have jobs, especially people in my age group, and we can't miss work for a convention.

The intent is that the purchaser of one particular badge won't get anything out of buying another badge. They buy the one badge that covers the days of relevant content. Would you rather have one-and-a-half days of full content that you're interested in, or would you instead have that same content spread out over 3 days? You're getting the same core content in either case. Maybe break it out into two badge classes and weigh it appropriately.

So let's express the problem in terms of constraints.
1. The current hotel cannot handle the capacity.
2. The convention is suck at this hotel for next year.

The staff have zero control about #2, so the only parameter they can play with is part #1. Controlling con-goer flow is going to be one of the best options. It's a simple example of fluid dynamics. If you stuff more of the control fluid (attendees) into a fixed volume (hotel) you get a compressed fluid (unhappy con people getting squished.)

So what would your solution be?

[Kurohime]

I'm amazed at how many people didn't seem to know there was a food court and large park within a block or two of the convention.  It was on the map! 

I really don't like the idea of multiple badges.  Splitting content focus to different days might work though- a manga day, a costuming day, a sports-like activities day... maybe.  Seemed like a lot of the stuff I wanted to see (and this has happened every year) runs at the same time, leaving me seeing half the stuff I want, with periods of nothing in between.  I suppose this gives me time to lounge and gawk at cosplayers. 

[Rathany]

I don't really know if this is the place to post this, but I'm more than willing to throw my hat into the ring for director of photography for next years K-con.  It A) guarantees me returning, as I'm sure many people are happy that I would be, and B) I do this at school.  I run the layout, design and pretty much the photography aspect for my paper so I know what I'm doing.

Photography is not a director level position.  All photography positions are lower than coordinator.   

[nikkiolie]

After actually sitting and thinking about it. The con wasn't that bad. Yeah the hotel staff wasn't the friendliest but once you figured out what they wanted it was easy to stay on their good side. My biggest issue was the elevators and from what I understand that has already been brought up with the hotel staff and they are looking at finding a better way to deal with it.

I'm not really sure what everyone elses problem is, it just seems like the hotel staff. But if you actually listened to them they had a valid point. They were trying to keep walk ways clear so people could get through easisly, then I hear people complaining about the lobby being too crowded. Its kinda funny when people are complaining about both. Obviously they were not following directions.

And as for the hotel staff being rude I think the same could be said for con goers as well. I saw a lot of people at the con treating the hotel staff like crap. As a person who has planed some events with 60+ people it is hard to control that many. These hotel staff were trying to control about 6000+ people. Cut them some slack. I was talking to one of the bell hops saying that he must be excited that we were going and he said we was actually sad. They mostly only get business men coming through there so this was a pleasant change. So if they mostly get business men then it is typically quite around the hotel. They are not used to 300+ screaming immature kids running around.

[AllyKat]

@Rathany:

OH! I remember seeing that on the list... I think we were gonna try and look that up and see what it was about but....
My hotel-mates came back with more Ramune and then there was mass hysteria in my room over the fact that I
had never had Ramune before....

This is what happens to a bunch of 20 somethings when all they consume is sugar... the attention span goes out
the window. Although that is a cute name! I like it! ^_^ I think the main issue was... people don't speak Japanese!
 

~Allykat

[Jamiche]

• Navigation was more challenging than in recent years. Myself and several people I spoke to were having a hard time locating events, panels, and rooms. Between the ballroom level, 1st floor, 2nd floor, 3rd floor, kareoke floor, and the executive tower, it was difficult to find anything!
• One or two events got moved without the pocket guides being updated! I tried to find something in the creation station and even the staff member I talked to didn't know that it had been moved from the 3rd floor to the executive tower! So I missed the event... I understand the website had updates, but that didn't help me when I was walking around K-con and there was no signage.

No event was moved.  It seems that there was some confusion with the difference between Creation Station Workshop and Workshop (and we will work on clarifying that for next year), but no panels were moved.

And navigation has always been an issue.. the first year we were at the Doubletree we heard the same complaints (how many people remember how hard it was to find the Executive Meeting Center?).

Ticketed Events:

• Yes, this cuts down wait time and line congestion
• I couldn't get a straight answer from anyone on where to get tickets!
• By the time I did get to the booth for tickets, they were out of the ones I wanted!
• I feel bad for people who don't attend the first day and/or don't attend early mornings, because they probably didn't get any tickets either
• I overheard many people talking about similar problems that I had!
• Although the concept is cool, it severaly limits fun activities when you don't have the ability to get the tickets ahead of time.

Certain events are ticketed because a) we know they are popular, and b) we have limited seating (which became even more of an issue with the fire code restrictions).  The concept behind ticketing the events is so that people are not waiting in line for hours, only to discover that you cannot get into the event.  It was stated in both the pocket guide and con book that in order to get the tickets, you had to go to Info Booth.  Tickets are released day of the event so people an opportunity to get them, and not have them all snatched up first day.

• I don't know what was going on with the photobooth, but my group waited in line around 60 minutes and still didn't make it to the front of the line! The hallway was hot from lack of AC, narrow, and there were some people in front of us saying they'd been waiting quite a bit longer than us. We got so frustrated, we left and never did get a photo.
• Events (that weren't ticketed) were badly scheduled and lacking in variety. Several times, my group could either not find the event we wanted to attend or there were no events that weren't full. Most of the time, we ended up just sitting around and waiting for an event.

The photobooth was popular, and it was a drop in event.  I do not know how the shoots were scheduled/handled.. I will talk to the photographer and see what we can do about next year.

As for other panels... the majority of the panels that run at Kumoricon are fan run.. meaning that you, the attendees put on the panels.  Want to see something in particular? Run it.. we are more than happy to assist you in anyway.  We try to provide a variety of panels, and some are staff run, but the majority come from you.

And guys, as unhappy as you all are about the Hilton, and want to go back to the Doubletree, keep in mind that if we are too big for the Hilton, we are definitely too big for the Doubletree.  Yes, there was the park and the mall to take up some of the slack there, but we had the same thing at the Hilton, but because of the rain, no one took advantage of it.

[murder_of_raven]

The intent is that the purchaser of one particular badge won't get anything out of buying another badge. They buy the one badge that covers the days of relevant content. Would you rather have one-and-a-half days of full content that you're interested in, or would you instead have that same content spread out over 3 days? You're getting the same core content in either case. Maybe break it out into two badge classes and weigh it appropriately.

Honestly, I thought this idea would be immediately rejected so I'm just now weighing in on it. I personally would be very very displeased if I were paying the same price (or more, considering badge price usually increases each year) for literally half the convention. In fact, for people like me who will have to commute from somewhere else to go to Kurmoricon, I'm positive I wouldn't think 1.5 days were worth the trouble.

But those are both personal problems. The big one I see is how do you decide what is/isn't content for a specific age group. I bet if you did careful statistical analysis you'd find that things like the Cosplay, AMV, and Cosplay Chess Contests were all pretty split amongst demographics. If you decide that they're only open to one than people who are suddenly not able to go to their favorite event are going to be very angry.

Also, do we really have enough young children to warrant even a partial day solely devoted to them? And who would watch after them if not their parents? Would parents have to buy two badges or would they effectively get two (or three if they also have a young teenager) for free?

It's a cute idea on the surface but I think it's entirely logistically impossible.

[Rathany]

The intent is that the purchaser of one particular badge won't get anything out of buying another badge. They buy the one badge that covers the days of relevant content. Would you rather have one-and-a-half days of full content that you're interested in, or would you instead have that same content spread out over 3 days? You're getting the same core content in either case. Maybe break it out into two badge classes and weigh it appropriately.

Honestly, I thought this idea would be immediately rejected so I'm just now weighing in on it. I personally would be very very displeased if I were paying the same price (or more, considering badge price usually increases each year) for literally half the convention. In fact, for people like me who will have to commute from somewhere else to go to Kurmoricon, I'm positive I wouldn't think 1.5 days were worth the trouble.

But those are both personal problems. The big one I see is how do you decide what is/isn't content for a specific age group. I bet if you did careful statistical analysis you'd find that things like the Cosplay, AMV, and Cosplay Chess Contests were all pretty split amongst demographics. If you decide that they're only open to one than people who are suddenly not able to go to their favorite event are going to be very angry.

Also, do we really have enough young children to warrant even a partial day solely devoted to them? And who would watch after them if not their parents? Would parents have to buy two badges or would they effectively get two (or three if they also have a young teenager) for free?

It's a cute idea on the surface but I think it's entirely logistically impossible.

Just for clarification, this is not being considered by the Board.  I've talked with the person proposing it via PM to go over the problems with it.  It was an idea, we consider all ideas   This one doesn't work for us. 

[Jamiche]

The worst thing that did happen was the rave. I had several girls who were minors that were really excited about going, but it seemed like the staff extended the time for the rave to start so they can avoid minors going. I have my girls go up to the room alone and unhappy for waiting a few hours in the rain.

This was not a deliberate choice on the part of staff.  The concert ran long, and with time it took to changeover to the dance it was decided that by the time the minors got to the dance they would just have to leave, so minors were not allowed into the dance.

We did not set out to ruin anyone's fun.  It was unfortunate that the concert ran long, and we dealt with it the best we could.  And before this starts another round of "why aren't the dances earlier", that has been answered in other threads.  The short answer is lots of big events, not much big event space.  Things are scheduled to try to fit everyone in, and unfortunately we can't please everybody.

[@random]

The biggest problem is that many people don't want to buy multiple badges. Everyone I know buys the full badge, so they can attend all three days. Only being able to attend 2 would mean buying 2 badges (one for Sat/Sun, and one for Mon/Tues) and that would get costly.
In support of keeping it in one weekend, many people can only go because it's Labor Day weekend and a national holiday. People have jobs, especially people in my age group, and we can't miss work for a convention.

The intent is that the purchaser of one particular badge won't get anything out of buying another badge. They buy the one badge that covers the days of relevant content. Would you rather have one-and-a-half days of full content that you're interested in, or would you instead have that same content spread out over 3 days? You're getting the same core content in either case. Maybe break it out into two badge classes and weigh it appropriately.

So let's express the problem in terms of constraints.
1. The current hotel cannot handle the capacity.
2. The convention is suck at this hotel for next year.

The staff have zero control about #2, so the only parameter they can play with is part #1. Controlling con-goer flow is going to be one of the best options. It's a simple example of fluid dynamics. If you stuff more of the control fluid (attendees) into a fixed volume (hotel) you get a compressed fluid (unhappy con people getting squished.)

So what would your solution be?

The Yoji Escort Service, of course! 

It might sound like it, but it's not the same as a Host Club. (waits for the disappointed "Awwww"s to die down.) Rather, it would be a few combination guide/chaperones who can walk groups to and from set destinations like the parks, with a few who stay at those destinations.

Even though Yoji's are just normal people with no authority once they step off con grounds, I'm sure a lot of people would feel better about having an adult with them when they go outside. Especially if they're adults who have some training in nonconfrontational ways to defuse nasty situations, and are able to liaise with the Portland Police if things really go south.

I know it's easier to say than do something like this, especially with staff being short as it is. But the payoff from getting large crowds out of the hotel and into the local parks for photos / hanging out would be big.

Alternate proposal: Designate certain spots as meetup locations for people to form groups to go out, and you'd only need Yojis at the locations. Troublemakers tend to leave mobile groups alone.

[DarkStar]

Even though Yoji's are just normal people with no authority once they step off con grounds, I'm sure a lot of people would feel better about having an adult with them when they go outside. Especially if they're adults who have some training in nonconfrontational ways to defuse nasty situations, and are able to liaise with the Portland Police if things really go south.

I know it's easier to say than do something like this, especially with staff being short as it is. But the payoff from getting large crowds out of the hotel and into the local parks for photos / hanging out would be big.

Alternate proposal: Designate certain spots as meetup locations for people to form groups to go out, and you'd only need Yojis at the locations. Troublemakers tend to leave mobile groups alone.

I think your running into a huge liability if "con-staff" is "escorting" attendees outside of the hotels. If something was to happen to the attendees (think of the worst), the convention would be held liable in court.

If a group, wholly independent of Kumoricon, wants to work out a program to escort people in Portland, I would hope the first thing they do is research the insurance and liability requirements of security guards in the City of Portland. It's a nice idea, but I wouldn't be willing to risk the future of Kumoricon on it.

[Slash5150]

I don't really know if this is the place to post this, but I'm more than willing to throw my hat into the ring for director of photography for next years K-con.  It A) guarantees me returning, as I'm sure many people are happy that I would be, and B) I do this at school.  I run the layout, design and pretty much the photography aspect for my paper so I know what I'm doing.

Photography is not a director level position.  All photography positions are lower than coordinator.   

Either or.  All I know is that I run this kind of thing (photography and all that stuff) At school so I know what I am doing.

[@random]

Even though Yoji's are just normal people with no authority once they step off con grounds, I'm sure a lot of people would feel better about having an adult with them when they go outside. Especially if they're adults who have some training in nonconfrontational ways to defuse nasty situations, and are able to liaise with the Portland Police if things really go south.

I know it's easier to say than do something like this, especially with staff being short as it is. But the payoff from getting large crowds out of the hotel and into the local parks for photos / hanging out would be big.

Alternate proposal: Designate certain spots as meetup locations for people to form groups to go out, and you'd only need Yojis at the locations. Troublemakers tend to leave mobile groups alone.

I think your running into a huge liability if "con-staff" is "escorting" attendees outside of the hotels. If something was to happen to the attendees (think of the worst), the convention would be held liable in court.

If a group, wholly independent of Kumoricon, wants to work out a program to escort people in Portland, I would hope the first thing they do is research the insurance and liability requirements of security guards in the City of Portland. It's a nice idea, but I wouldn't be willing to risk the future of Kumoricon on it.

If what you're saying is true, it still wouldn't rule out establishing designated meeting spots for groups to gather before heading out.

I'd be interested to hear what someone familiar with liability law has to say, though - it would seem that a standard disclaimer that the con cannot be held liable for what happens outside conspace, prominently posted next to the established spots, would suffice. Heck, we already have such a disclaimer for conspace itself.

[Rathany]

Even though Yoji's are just normal people with no authority once they step off con grounds, I'm sure a lot of people would feel better about having an adult with them when they go outside. Especially if they're adults who have some training in nonconfrontational ways to defuse nasty situations, and are able to liaise with the Portland Police if things really go south.

I know it's easier to say than do something like this, especially with staff being short as it is. But the payoff from getting large crowds out of the hotel and into the local parks for photos / hanging out would be big.

Alternate proposal: Designate certain spots as meetup locations for people to form groups to go out, and you'd only need Yojis at the locations. Troublemakers tend to leave mobile groups alone.

I think your running into a huge liability if "con-staff" is "escorting" attendees outside of the hotels. If something was to happen to the attendees (think of the worst), the convention would be held liable in court.

If a group, wholly independent of Kumoricon, wants to work out a program to escort people in Portland, I would hope the first thing they do is research the insurance and liability requirements of security guards in the City of Portland. It's a nice idea, but I wouldn't be willing to risk the future of Kumoricon on it.

If what you're saying is true, it still wouldn't rule out establishing designated meeting spots for groups to gather before heading out.

I'd be interested to hear what someone familiar with liability law has to say, though - it would seem that a standard disclaimer that the con cannot be held liable for what happens outside conspace, prominently posted next to the established spots, would suffice. Heck, we already have such a disclaimer for conspace itself.

It might be possible, if the meeting point was within con space.  But, yeah, the legal side would have to be looked into. 

[AllyKat]

Liability Law:

No matter how many waivers you sign; someone is always going to find a way to sue
you if they really want to. Even if there is a warning posted saying a company is
not responsible for lost or damaged goods, in the event they did not do "enough" to
prevent the crime or event, a company can be held liable.

In this day and age no good deed is safe from being filed suit against.

~Allykat

[Asylymescapeie]

Nice  I like that one. I agree one way or another some one always gets sued.

[murder_of_raven]

No matter how many waivers you sign; someone is always going to find a way to sue
you if they really want to. Even if there is a warning posted saying a company is
not responsible for lost or damaged goods, in the event they did not do "enough" to
prevent the crime or event, a company can be held liable.

That's a really cynical and incorrect description of liability law. The fact of the matter is that, whether or not you claim you aren't liable for something with a giant flashing neon sign, that doesn't excuse you from legal obligation. In the situation you just cited businesses /are/ liable for lost and damaged goods, so said sign doesn't excuse them from that.

[XFD]

No matter how many waivers you sign; someone is always going to find a way to sue
you if they really want to. Even if there is a warning posted saying a company is
not responsible for lost or damaged goods, in the event they did not do "enough" to
prevent the crime or event, a company can be held liable.

That's a really cynical and incorrect description of liability law. The fact of the matter is that, whether or not you claim you aren't liable for something with a giant flashing neon sign, that doesn't excuse you from legal obligation. In the situation you just cited businesses /are/ liable for lost and damaged goods, so said sign doesn't excuse them from that.

Source?

[Silvamord]

• Unlike in some recent years, there was no nearby park (that concrete/brick open area does not classify as a park!) within convenient distance. Due to this, most of the con-goers were loitering on the sidewalks and blocking entrances, which the hotel staff voiced their problems with often.

The park blocks; 5 full city blocks of lush, green parks, were a block and a half south and west, in that order.  Lowns Dale Square was 2 block east and 1 block south.  Neighboring that, Chapman Square.  6 blocks east, the expansive and Beautiful Portland Waterfront Park.  The area you're referring to is Pioneer Courthouse square, which is a fantastic location to hang out, relax, and socialize.

Could you at least peek at google maps before making claims like this?  Just because nobody told you about them doesn't mean they don't exist.  You could have asked around.  No PSU student could possible not be able to tell you about the Park Blocks at the very least, and PSU students are definitely not difficult to find at Kumoricon.  Portland is one of the most heavily forested major metropolitan areas in the world.  Being more than a few blocks from a park is nearly impossible.  I live in inner Portland and there are EIGHT parks within twenty minutes walking distance from my house, and these are just the ones that I happen to be aware of.

I'm not saying there weren't any there, I'm saying that nobody went to them. I passed a few while walking the area during the con, but there didn't seem to be nearly as many people at them as there were in the cons that had a park directly across the street. It just seemed like the locations of the parks and malls were inconvenient, not impossible to get to.

[Silvamord]

The biggest problem is that many people don't want to buy multiple badges. Everyone I know buys the full badge, so they can attend all three days. Only being able to attend 2 would mean buying 2 badges (one for Sat/Sun, and one for Mon/Tues) and that would get costly.
In support of keeping it in one weekend, many people can only go because it's Labor Day weekend and a national holiday. People have jobs, especially people in my age group, and we can't miss work for a convention.

The intent is that the purchaser of one particular badge won't get anything out of buying another badge. They buy the one badge that covers the days of relevant content. Would you rather have one-and-a-half days of full content that you're interested in, or would you instead have that same content spread out over 3 days? You're getting the same core content in either case. Maybe break it out into two badge classes and weigh it appropriately.

So let's express the problem in terms of constraints.
1. The current hotel cannot handle the capacity.
2. The convention is suck at this hotel for next year.

The staff have zero control about #2, so the only parameter they can play with is part #1. Controlling con-goer flow is going to be one of the best options. It's a simple example of fluid dynamics. If you stuff more of the control fluid (attendees) into a fixed volume (hotel) you get a compressed fluid (unhappy con people getting squished.)

So what would your solution be?

Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, but I'd only buy a badge if it meant I could go to the entire con. Every day of it. Otherwise, I would have just bought a 1-day pass. If it came down to the point that I could buy a pass, but it was only good for maybe 50-75% of the convention, I don't really know if I would be too happy about buying a badge at all. There are fun events throughout the entire convention and I'd be a bit disappointed knowing I'd have to miss an entire day.

As for the hotel, I understand that the con staff doesn't really have much say over where it will be held next year. I know they're going to do their best to make next year even better. I just think, for future reference if nothing else, that the heart of a major downtown area like that is a bit too crowded for a convention like that. Everything is compact and cramped.

[murder_of_raven]

Source?

Unfortunately you are asking me to cite a /lack/ of law. I could cite the lawyer-person I heard this from (if I could locate that video) but that would be another logic argument. The point being made is that specifically a /statement/ of non-liability is completely separate from an actual lack of liability, which is why people are sued despite them.

I too am disappointed in my inability to cite anything and would gladly concede if someone could present a factual source. If I manage to remember my source and find it again, I will of course post it. Unfortunately, it could have also been a live panel (which I tend to confuse with videos of live panels, which I watch often) so this might be impossible.

[Silvamord]

Source?

Unfortunately you are asking me to cite a /lack/ of law. I could cite the lawyer-person I heard this from (if I could locate that video) but that would be another logic argument. The point being made is that specifically a /statement/ of non-liability is completely separate from an actual lack of liability, which is why people are sued despite them.

I too am disappointed in my inability to cite anything and would gladly concede if someone could present a factual source. If I manage to remember my source and find it again, I will of course post it. Unfortunately, it could have also been a live panel (which I tend to confuse with videos of live panels, which I watch often) so this might be impossible.

I'm not familiar with liability in Portland, but I do know a tiny bit about liability in Washington. At least, informally. No matter how many times you post 'Kumioricon and/or it's staff/affiliates/attendees are not liable for any mishaps that occures on their outings', if anything major happened (a mugging, assault, etc) then they could still be taken to court. The guardian (assuming it's a minor) would likely pull both Kumoricon and the yoji/staff that was presant to court for negligence. I really doubt that anyone wants to sign a liability waiver, and even then it could get sticky if a major problem were to arise.

To touch base on the other option, however, I feel a lot of the problems I experienced this last convention could be reduced (if not resolved) by marking suggested ('designated' would probably link to liability if something happened there) grouping areas. Marking these areas on the map with an easily recognizable symbol would be very helpful. I do think, however, any minors without an adult escort may be a bit hesitant to leave the hotel unless it's within a 1 block area... but that's a different issue.

[XFD]

The original claim is that no amount of measure could absolve a party of liability. It would normally then break out into either case law or legislative. The legislative would explicitly state limitations of liability while the sticky one is case law. It is in case law where the problems emerge, from the hot coffee being hot to the ridiculous Chewbacca defense. Exceptions, exemptions and bears, oh my. The whole legal (not justice) system is wrought with loop holes that are waiting exploitation; unless you have law to explicitly stating your limitations, I think it's a very fine short-form expression of the liability issue. - Defaulting to the worst case is the best method of covering your backside.

[Silvamord]

The original claim is that no amount of measure could absolve a party of liability. It would normally then break out into either case law or legislative. The legislative would explicitly state limitations of liability while the sticky one is case law. It is in case law where the problems emerge, from the hot coffee being hot to the ridiculous Chewbacca defense. Exceptions, exemptions and bears, oh my. The whole legal (not justice) system is wrought with loop holes that are waiting exploitation; unless you have law to explicitly stating your limitations, I think it's a very fine short-form expression of the liability issue. - Defaulting to the worst case is the best method of covering your backside.

Very well said!

[Slash5150]

Well, just going by the hilton fact sheet thing for portland, taking all the rooms in the main hotel in terms of numbers, the max capacity is 2806, but could probably get away with sneaking in 3500, at any given time, so really the only thing that could be done, to play nice with the fire marshals is to go like this.

Factoring in 250 for staff/guests/vendors etc. that gives you 3250 spots left.

250 MAX goes to VIP giving you 3000 spots.

Now these are the two options that can be done.

Option A) Kumoricon goes into an online pre-registration format with no in person registration.  This would A) Take a lot off the backs of people who have to deal with tons of people registering, and B) hopefully streamline the process a lot.  Unfortunately, this takes away from people being able to walk in off the street and come to con.  But throw in a pretty nice discount for the first 4 months, bump the price up the next four, then go regular price the last 4.

Option B) Kumoricon makes online registration and caps it at X. The last (3000-X) spots will be devoted to DAILY passes that will go on a FCFS basis to anyone who decides they want to be part of the con off the street.  

Honestly, I believe that con is going to have to turn people away next year just because of the way the Hilton is laid out along with the fire marshal.  And you also have to remember that these numbers are assuming that NO ONE ELSE is staying in the hotel.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Also, wouldn't Con be able to get around the law by having something stated at signups saying something like "Kumoricon is open 24 hours, you may request and escort to your vehicle but the Hilton, nor Kumoricon is liable if anything happens" or something like that.

[XFD]

Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, but I'd only buy a badge if it meant I could go to the entire con. Every day of it. Otherwise, I would have just bought a 1-day pass. If it came down to the point that I could buy a pass, but it was only good for maybe 50-75% of the convention, I don't really know if I would be too happy about buying a badge at all. There are fun events throughout the entire convention and I'd be a bit disappointed knowing I'd have to miss an entire day.

As for the hotel, I understand that the con staff doesn't really have much say over where it will be held next year. I know they're going to do their best to make next year even better. I just think, for future reference if nothing else, that the heart of a major downtown area like that is a bit too crowded for a convention like that. Everything is compact and cramped.

Not exactly. Let's go for really really extreme examples into 3 day segments. For numbers, lets say there are 9000 attendees.

Content per day of con:
Day 1: 12 hours of My little Pony, hello kitty, and Mr. Rogers.
Day 2: One piece, slayers, Ouran, DBZ, etc similar
Day 3: Jojo's Bizzare adventures, various over-the-top nuts Hentai etc.

Small kids have no place for day 3. They are also not really of age for the day 2 stuff. The kids (plus parents) make up 3000 members and are there for day 1. 10% of them stick around for day 2.

The teens come in for day 2. They come in 3000 members. - 3300 members at the con on day 2. 15% of the teens stick around for day 3.

Day 3: The mature group, 3000 strong. Add in the overflow of teens - 3450 attendees.

Net flow of attendees: 9000
Average daily membercount: 3250

It's sort of the RMS of the membership. I can sympathize with the con staff to a point, but with the core issue (space) being the scarce resource a consession will have to be made somewhere. Keep everything status quo, lose more people who are unhappy with being exceptionally packed into con congestion. Spread out the content and make it attendee-age-group specific, upset people who have all 3 kinds of attendees in their group; they won't bother. The base problem is that no one can keep filling the bucket with more water once it's full. You're going to have runoff.

[@random]

The original claim is that no amount of measure could absolve a party of liability. It would normally then break out into either case law or legislative. The legislative would explicitly state limitations of liability while the sticky one is case law. It is in case law where the problems emerge, from the hot coffee being hot to the ridiculous Chewbacca defense. Exceptions, exemptions and bears, oh my. The whole legal (not justice) system is wrought with loop holes that are waiting exploitation; unless you have law to explicitly stating your limitations, I think it's a very fine short-form expression of the liability issue. - Defaulting to the worst case is the best method of covering your backside.

Disagree on a fine point - if this were true, we couldn't even have a con. There are too many things staff can't control, but could theoretically be held responsible for.  I.e. a minor in heat wanders out of conspace with an adult attendee at night, something bad happens, and Kumoricon is held responsible in court. (#1 has happened, #2 is possible, and #3 is theoretically possible.)

Defaulting to the 90%-likely worst case is more reasonable. We can't foresee or prevent EVERYTHING, but we can eliminate all but the worst scenarios.

[@random]

Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, but I'd only buy a badge if it meant I could go to the entire con. Every day of it. Otherwise, I would have just bought a 1-day pass. If it came down to the point that I could buy a pass, but it was only good for maybe 50-75% of the convention, I don't really know if I would be too happy about buying a badge at all. There are fun events throughout the entire convention and I'd be a bit disappointed knowing I'd have to miss an entire day.

As for the hotel, I understand that the con staff doesn't really have much say over where it will be held next year. I know they're going to do their best to make next year even better. I just think, for future reference if nothing else, that the heart of a major downtown area like that is a bit too crowded for a convention like that. Everything is compact and cramped.

Not exactly. Let's go for really really extreme examples into 3 day segments. For numbers, lets say there are 9000 attendees.

Content per day of con:
Day 1: 12 hours of My little Pony, hello kitty, and Mr. Rogers.
Day 2: One piece, slayers, Ouran, DBZ, etc similar
Day 3: Jojo's Bizzare adventures, various over-the-top nuts Hentai etc.

Small kids have no place for day 3. They are also not really of age for the day 2 stuff. The kids (plus parents) make up 3000 members and are there for day 1. 10% of them stick around for day 2.

The teens come in for day 2. They come in 3000 members. - 3300 members at the con on day 2. 15% of the teens stick around for day 3.

Day 3: The mature group, 3000 strong. Add in the overflow of teens - 3450 attendees.

Net flow of attendees: 9000
Average daily membercount: 3250

It's sort of the RMS of the membership. I can sympathize with the con staff to a point, but with the core issue (space) being the scarce resource a consession will have to be made somewhere. Keep everything status quo, lose more people who are unhappy with being exceptionally packed into con congestion. Spread out the content and make it attendee-age-group specific, upset people who have all 3 kinds of attendees in their group; they won't bother. The base problem is that no one can keep filling the bucket with more water once it's full. You're going to have runoff.

Three major problems:
1) Who decides where to draw the lines on content? That would not be a fun job.
2) Would more than a tiny handful of staffers be willing to work during the kid-preteens day? They'd be dealing with a more unruly and obnoxious group, and without the reward of being able to meet old friends. Remember, staff are unpaid volunteers - try to force them into it, and you lose them.
3) As was stated earlier in the thread, this option isn't even on the table with the board. That kinda moots the point, I think.

[XFD]

Three major problems:
1) Who decides where to draw the lines on content? That would not be a fun job.
2) Would more than a tiny handful of staffers be willing to work during the kid-preteens day? They'd be dealing with a more unruly and obnoxious group, and without the reward of being able to meet old friends. Remember, staff are unpaid volunteers - try to force them into it, and you lose them.
3) As was stated earlier in the thread, this option isn't even on the table with the board. That kinda moots the point, I think.

1. Usually released stuff has an age rating. Most parents are too lazy to check it, but it's there. That makes that easy.
2. The con has made its bed with the given hotel. Now it has to sleep in it. There won't be a make-everyone-happy solution to the issue. Status quo will be a repeat of this year. Maybe interleave the staffers so their exposure to brats is limited (2 hour shifts for baby sitting while the rest of their time is spent on the rest of the con's setup)
3. Someone asked for clarification. Clarification given. If you don't like the idea, kill it in one go with an answer to this: how you make 6000 people happy who are unhappy right now, by repeating the same action? (Catch: drugs aren't allowed. )

[Rathany]

Three major problems:
1) Who decides where to draw the lines on content? That would not be a fun job.
2) Would more than a tiny handful of staffers be willing to work during the kid-preteens day? They'd be dealing with a more unruly and obnoxious group, and without the reward of being able to meet old friends. Remember, staff are unpaid volunteers - try to force them into it, and you lose them.
3) As was stated earlier in the thread, this option isn't even on the table with the board. That kinda moots the point, I think.

1. Usually released stuff has an age rating. Most parents are too lazy to check it, but it's there. That makes that easy.
2. The con has made its bed with the given hotel. Now it has to sleep in it. There won't be a make-everyone-happy solution to the issue. Status quo will be a repeat of this year. Maybe interleave the staffers so their exposure to brats is limited (2 hour shifts for baby sitting while the rest of their time is spent on the rest of the con's setup)
3. Someone asked for clarification. Clarification given. If you don't like the idea, kill it in one go with an answer to this: how you make 6000 people happy who are unhappy right now, by repeating the same action? (Catch: drugs aren't allowed. )

Well, the good news is that not everyone is unhappy.  I did random walkthroughs of the lobby on Monday and got no negative resposnes.  Granted, it was a very small sampling.  But you cannot judge the overall reaction to the con by the people complaining on the forums.  There will always be complaining in forums. 

Note: There are some very good reasons for complaints.  No one is dismissing that.  Those of you who love Kcon but are giving next year a miss, we hope to see you in 2011 and at mid-year events.  We respect your descision.  But, those with complaints are going to be much, much louder than others.  People are far more likely to  reg for a forum account to complain than to reg just to go 'hey yall, good times'. 

Re: next year being status quo.  Next year will not be like last year/2009.  After Saturday the hotel changed how they handled things and the problems died down a huge deal.  There are alot of people very commited to improving next year, and we would rather not have our dedication dismissed out of hand as ineffectual.  I don't know if that is what you meant, but, I do want to be clear on this issue.

Re: 6 part con with scaling up age rating.  I am pretty sure this will annoy and confuse the bulk of our attendees.  We can't even get the average attendee to read a short policy document, and you expect them to follow something this complex?  Also, what would I do about guests?  Almost all guest panels are meant to be for everyone.  I can spend tons'o'dough on a guest and only have each panel seen by a small portion of the attendees.  There are other problems with this system, but I am not going to get into all of them now. 

Ok, I am now off to sort through other threads to answer other questions.  Well, maybe after more caffine. 

[XFD]

I was leaving out the hotel staff part of the equation and purely operating on the attendee numbers problem. Again, the core problem defined: Too many people in an inadequate space. I never made claims that the staff was being lazy or in effectual and should not be taken into such context. In general, the fan response about the con staff has been highly positive. The Hotel staff was a factor that no con staff could influence until after the damage occurred. For the sake of perspective, speculate that the hotel staff and con staff were supremely kind, knew everything possible about where things were going on, etc. Deities. 6000 bodies in a cramped space is still 6000 bodies in a cramped space. This is what I am defining as status-quo. It is the only element of the puzzle that is independent from person-to-person interactions.

[@random]

Three major problems:
1) Who decides where to draw the lines on content? That would not be a fun job.
2) Would more than a tiny handful of staffers be willing to work during the kid-preteens day? They'd be dealing with a more unruly and obnoxious group, and without the reward of being able to meet old friends. Remember, staff are unpaid volunteers - try to force them into it, and you lose them.
3) As was stated earlier in the thread, this option isn't even on the table with the board. That kinda moots the point, I think.

1. Usually released stuff has an age rating. Most parents are too lazy to check it, but it's there. That makes that easy.
2. The con has made its bed with the given hotel. Now it has to sleep in it. There won't be a make-everyone-happy solution to the issue. Status quo will be a repeat of this year. Maybe interleave the staffers so their exposure to brats is limited (2 hour shifts for baby sitting while the rest of their time is spent on the rest of the con's setup)
3. Someone asked for clarification. Clarification given. If you don't like the idea, kill it in one go with an answer to this: how you make 6000 people happy who are unhappy right now, by repeating the same action? (Catch: drugs aren't allowed. )

2. That's rather callous, considering that when it comes down to it very few staffers are directly involved in location decisions. I even personally know a few who were really unhappy about the location back when the decision was made, because they could foresee the problems that arose. You're proposing to force those people to work a babysitting-job-from-Hades because "the con made its bed"? Even if you assume the false premise that all the staff are personally responsible for the location, the fact remains that staffing is volunteer. People aren't doing this because they're paid, they're doing it as a labor of love for their fellow attendees. You can't force volunteers to do something because you think it's right.

If you could, we wouldn't have such problems with staff burnout. Not enough people are willing to volunteer as it is, and the ones who do often work themselves to death - and that's with a con that's enjoyable to staff. Having enough staff to limit them to 2-hour shifts would be wonderful under normal circumstances, wild fantasy in this case.

If you think people are unhappy now?... That's nothing compared to how much more unhappy they would be with few events, no crowd control, and AX-esque lines. Push staff out the door, and that's what you would get.

[XFD]

Given the contractual obligation that the convention has, I'm addressing this in the whole scope of the situation, not as a personal attack that you seem to be believing it to be. This is not a case of putting blame on anyone, there is nothing to gain from blaming anyone- it's done. "The con has made its bed," means that it is contractually obligated for the next location. Nothing more, nothing less - there is nothing between the lines here.

The proposal suggested was one particular way of dealing with the numbers that are posing a problem. Since the con staff and volunteers are getting exhausted and/or burnt out serving 6000 people simultaneously, wouldn't it then make it easier dealing with 3000 at a time? If not, then there is another problem that is probably more severe than just the hotel capacity issue and even if this is true, it exists far outside the scope of my idea. If there are staff & volunteer issues with burn out, bring it up and get some attention on it.
 

[princessmoon]

Sure. I didn't have the best experience @ con this year, but I'm not going to abandon K-con.  I share similar experiences with other complaints... Anyways, I love it!  I can see that staff are listening (well, reading) many comments, ideas, and ways to improve the next con. I APPRECIATE THAT! THANK YOU! Not everyone can/will be happy about everything, but ya'll are making an effort....and you're not even getting paid :3

I just had a question. I thought I read somewhere in one of these threads that K-con is supported by previous year's revenue. Is that correct? So, K-con 2010 is support by this year K-con 2009 revenue? And if I attend (I will attend ^_^) K-con 2010, I am helping support K-con 2011?

thx.

[Rathany]

Sure. I didn't have the best experience @ con this year, but I'm not going to abandon K-con.  I share similar experiences with other complaints... Anyways, I love it!  I can see that staff are listening (well, reading) many comments, ideas, and ways to improve the next con. I APPRECIATE THAT! THANK YOU! Not everyone can/will be happy about everything, but ya'll are making an effort....and you're not even getting paid :3

I just had a question. I thought I read somewhere in one of these threads that K-con is supported by previous year's revenue. Is that correct? So, K-con 2010 is support by this year K-con 2009 revenue? And if I attend (I will attend ^_^) K-con 2010, I am helping support K-con 2011?

thx.

Hello.  Thank you so much.  It's so nice to read comments like this

Yes, we run on actual-profit from the previous con, not on projected-income from the upcoming con.  It's a very conservative way to approach con spending, but we like it.  So, yes, 2011 will be paid for by 2010 attendences. 

[Meganekko]

...
I.e. a minor in heat...

Wut?

[@random]

princessmoon: <3 *hug* <3 You're a sweetheart, and the kind of person that makes staffing worth coming back to. (^_^)

...
I.e. a minor in heat...

Wut?

Incident from years ago; no harm no foul.

[AllyKat]

It really is great to see people so involved and so willing to put forth ideas to make things better...
I wonder, however, if this surge in activity and frenzy of ideas doesn't happen every year after the
con. As someone who was a first time attendee I barely lurked the forum for the past few years,
dreaming of being able to go to the actually convention. I have no knowledge of if this is a re-accuring
instance or merely the result of issues presented at the Convention.

I am a little miffed (conceededly so) that no one, not even the original poster of the other discussion on
future years commented on my analysis of the surrounding hotels and their meeting halls! I was so
surprised I was able to comprise a working model, and yet no one else noticed... it got burried in the
conversation!

http://www.kumoricon.org/forums/index.php?topic=11250.msg467875#msg467875

Regardless, looking to this year, we might as well consider the same possibilities around the hilton. What
hotels really close by offer meeting halls and gathering rooms? I found:

Hmm... a terrible lack in event space... *frowns* The Heathman (opposite the hilton main tower and caddy
corner from it) Has room it appears for up to 150 people... and the Paramount has room for 60 people?
Possibly 120 is they are meaning that each room can function for up to 60.

However,

A short hop skip and a jump away (on the other side of the Pioneer Square) there is the Nines...
They boast 14 whole meeting rooms:

Room Name               Area         Height    Banq.    Thtr.     Conf.    Rec.    Class     U-Shp

The Nines Ballroom   7,176sq. ft.  18.0'      540        900                800       450 
Culture                  2,415sq. ft.  18.0'      180        280       60       250      150       50 
Fashion                  2,415sq. ft.  18.0'      180        340       60      250       150      50
Design                   2,415sq. ft.  18.0'      180        280       60      250       150       50 
Design 1                1,225sq. ft.  18.0'       90         120       30      100        75        30
Design 2                1,225sq. ft.  18.0'       90         120       30      100        75        30 
Culture/Fashion       4,830sq. ft.  18.0'      360         560      100     500       300       60   
Fashion/Design        4,830sq. ft.  18.0'      360         560      100     500       300       60 
Studio                   1,440sq. ft.  8.0'        100        180        30     125          72      32
Gallery                   2,268sq. ft.  8.0'       150         250       54      200       120       50 
Gallery 1                   792sq. ft.  8.0'        60           90       30       60         45        22 
Gallery 2                   720sq. ft.  8.0'        60           86       30       60         45        22   
Gallery 3                   792sq. ft.  8.0'        60           90       30       60         45        22 
Gallery 1/2              1,512sq. ft.  8.0'       100        160        30      120        72        32 
Gallery 2/3              1,512sq. ft.  8.0'       100        160        30      120        72        32 
Meier Boardroom         528sq. ft.  9.0'        -           -           16       -          -           - 
Frank Boardroom         616sq. ft.  9.0'        -           -           18       -          -           - 
Georgian Room         1,450sq. ft.  9.0'       80         140         30       70       48          20 


I doubt it would be cheap.... so it's probably not a viable option... but... there is ample extra
room nearby if we DONT want to/have to cap registration....

~Allykat

[MichaelEvans]

The way you post it makes it seem like there are multiple rooms; in this quote I'm trying to cut that down to just the single large rooms without any splits.

http://www.starwoodhotels.com/luxury/property/meetings/overview_map.html?propertyID=1757

http://www.kumoricon.org/forums/index.php?topic=11250.msg467875#msg467875

A short hop skip and a jump away (on the other side of the Pioneer Square) there is the Nines...

Room Name               Area         Height    Banq.    Thtr.     Conf.    Rec.    Class     U-Shp

The Nines Ballroom   7,176sq. ft.  18.0'      540        900                800       450 
Studio                   1,440sq. ft.  8.0'        100        180        30     125          72      32
Gallery                   2,268sq. ft.  8.0'       150         250       54      200       120       50 
Meier Boardroom         528sq. ft.  9.0'        -           -           16       -          -           - 
Frank Boardroom         616sq. ft.  9.0'        -           -           18       -          -           - 
Georgian Room         1,450sq. ft.  9.0'       80         140         30       70       48          20 

Those are the distinct rooms, everything else was just a variation of combining the space and having a pre-determined capacity rating for that combination.

I don't seem to see the Georgian Room on that map though.

[AllyKat]

You are right, I am sorry, I didn't examine that quite as thoroughly as I thought...
heh! Guess I wasn't paying attention! Regardless... that is still (if split up)
About 10 more meeting rooms available to us... if that is what we need. I don't
know if it is... but it's an option!

~Allykat

[Slash5150]

You are right, I am sorry, I didn't examine that quite as thoroughly as I thought...
heh! Guess I wasn't paying attention! Regardless... that is still (if split up)
About 10 more meeting rooms available to us... if that is what we need. I don't
know if it is... but it's an option!

~Allykat

While its true that there are additional rooms down the street, A few things need to be remembered.  By adding a third location (Hilton Main, Exec Tower, the place mentioned) you will be splitting your staff up even more.  So lets say there were 60 yojis and everything was evenly split.

This year it would have been 30 at main tower, 30 at exec tower.  Adding a third building into the mix would now become 20 at Main, 20 at Exec, 20 at new.

Next thing you need to factor in is weather.  If its raining, how many people would want to walk that distance for a panel or viewing room, especially those in cosplay.

And then the next factor is time.  We all know DT-Ptown is full of creepers, so would K-con be using this building with the 24 hour time frame, or would it be different.

Its a good idea to try and get a third building, but IMO, the second building thing isn't fun either. 

[MichaelEvans]

The second building is also kitty-corner across the street.

This other hotel (while it sounds reachable via Maxline within fairless square), is still farther away.

[AllyKat]

This year it would have been 30 at main tower, 30 at exec tower.  Adding a third building into the mix would now become 20 at Main, 20 at Exec, 20 at new.

Well I certainly hope they didn't have 30 yoji at the Exec tower. There were only what, 5 rooms at that
hotel? Most of them small classroom style panel's/workshops? The only time when things would have needed
excessive yoji pressence there was durring the adult content times and even then, the yoji pressence was
lacking and I rarely saw much choas because of it. The executive tower was a satelite, an overflow area and
being as there wasn't a whole ton going on there, and it was all downstairs... I think that made things
considerably easier to maintain with the few yoji I did see over there. I am not saying it was understaffed, they
seemed to be doing just fine. And honestly I only went to two things over at executive tower, even though I
was staying there, so there may be panel/workshop rooms I didn't see. As far as I know though, you could split
the numbers higher for the main tower and the third hotel, and leave maybe 10 or so yoji at the Executive tower.

Also, if there are the same number of staff this year as there were at K-con 2009, then we don't have any
choice but TO cap the reg. The staff can't handle as many people as we have, let alone more. It isn't feasible
to grow without our volunteer group growing as well.

Next thing you need to factor in is weather.  If its raining, how many people would want to walk that distance for a panel or viewing room, especially those in cosplay.

I cry for my fellow Oregonians, I really do. It's hard to live here. But to Quote 30 days of Night:

"We live here because nobody else can."

You simply have to be prepared for bad weather. How does Sak do it? Even in April (maybe especially in april)
Washington can be even rainier than us! It's cold and wet and windy all the time, Oregonians and Northwesterners
have to expect it. Much like trick or treating you take into account the rain and the dirt and the cold and you
prepare for it. Unfortunately that means some cos-play choices are not feasible, or you have to be prepared to
Scotch-gaurd the buttons out of it. Umbrella's may not be an Oregon tradition but perhaps a friend with a less
intricate costume/prop can hold one for you to protect the wings you spent 12 hours hand making. Or maybe you can
get one or two of those rain ponchos and (since you are a master of the craft, and I mean that in a very real
way, some of these costumes just baffle me how they can be made by real living people and not machines!) create
a poncho that fits your costume, props and all, without damaging it. For those with trains and trailing cloth, think
about how it was handled in the 1800's. Mud was much more prevalent then, and girls HAD to wear floor length
dresses. Pick it up and start walking, or figure out a way to get it off the ground for the trek. There really is no
way around that.

It's difficult, no body is questioning THAT. However, it is the burden a beautiful cosplayer must bear to show their
wares and their art. Especially in Oregon and Washington.

And then the next factor is time.  We all know DT-Ptown is full of creepers, so would K-con be using this building with the 24 hour time frame, or would it be different.
Its a good idea to try and get a third building, but IMO, the second building thing isn't fun either. 

I think the solution for this is simple; Other than events that are for adults only, try to keep the offerings at
the far away hotel meeting space only durring daylight hours. Once the sun starts to set things should either
begin to shut down or at least move to straight adult content so that the kiddies return to the main hotel.
Anything after dark that allows children or under 18's into it should be at the main hotel so as not to have them
walking around late at night. As for adults... The buddy system is your friend, big numbers of cosplayers and con-
goers are less likely to be tormented if they stay together and stay focused on eachother. This is all I can really
think of as, having lived in Gresham and S.E. portland, the people of Downtown really seem rather friendly to me!
^_^

_______________________________

In the end it's the board and staff's decision to make.
Should we expand the convention to increase convention attendance allowance, in favor of longer walks between events and panels and potential security risks, or;

Do we cap attendance and keep it centralized, barring growth but allowing for security and convienience to the
attendees who do get a badge.

~Allykat

[Sakis01]

Very well put AllyKat, I applaud your great understandings of this situation. I couldn't agree more. (No sarcasm included)

[trinket]

This is all I can really
think of as, having lived in Gresham and S.E. portland, the people of Downtown really seem rather friendly to me!
^_^

I agree with this. While I haven't lived in too many cities,only Portland Seattle and Olympia, I have by far felt the safest in Portlands downtown area compared to the others. In fact when i used to live in Portland there where every so often times that i would be out on foot or on my bike near 2 am by myself. (not that this is recommended). I mean once its dark as long as your staying within about a 4 block radius of the hotel your pretty much fine as long as you keep your wits about you.

[Slash5150]

You missed the first part about yojis when I said Everything is split evenly for maths sake.

But it doesn't change the fact that you are still splitting up a staff into smaller groups.  As much as they appear to be, the yojis are not robots, so even if there were 60, split that in half since we could say half are sleeping.  That gives you 30.  if you threw say 6 into the exec tower, that gives you 24.  Now instead of having 24 people cover the hilton main tower, which you could factor say 3 roaming yoji per floor (and with 3 floors thats 9 yojis) dropping that down to 15.  Then if you want to have two work crowd control for say 6 venues at the main tower, that takes another 12 yoji out of the equation.

Your idea is sound, the only problem is staff.

[AllyKat]

Your idea is sound, the only problem is staff.

That is always the problem! ^_^

[ThiefKingsHier]

 There is far too much here to respond to  every subject but one did stand out- 'age' and 'content'

 For the love of God please, PLEASE leave it alone!

 This is what has killed Sakura-con. Basically, giving its loyal, adult attendees the finger in favor of pleasing the easily offended and parents of minors.
This is an ANIME convention. There is going to be offensive (to the easily offended) and pg-adult material. If you can't handle it than DON'T GO.


Also ( this has not been brought up) At the con I heard people talking about 'the rave' NO ONE bothered to call it a dance. So...were pretty much just going to look the other way? Just continue to host Raves with nothing but techno that ravers could hear at least every weekend? Not even going to attempt to put a BIT of anime/Japanese influence into it?

[MichaelEvans]

About the 'dance'; I didn't go, I wasn't anywhere near it, and I didn't run it.  It seems -they- were there and know better than I if it were indeed a Rave or not.  However maybe 'Rave' is the kind of 'Dance' that a portion of our attendees like to attend (while a dance would be something they'd try to avoid because of the stodgy music).

[XFD]

There is far too much here to respond to  every subject but one did stand out- 'age' and 'content'

 For the love of God please, PLEASE leave it alone!

 This is what has killed Sakura-con. Basically, giving its loyal, adult attendees the finger in favor of pleasing the easily offended and parents of minors.
This is an ANIME convention. There is going to be offensive (to the easily offended) and pg-adult material. If you can't handle it than DON'T GO.

There have been a few threads in the past about this. This is a lost cause.

[ThiefKingsHier]

There is far too much here to respond to  every subject but one did stand out- 'age' and 'content'

 For the love of God please, PLEASE leave it alone!

 This is what has killed Sakura-con. Basically, giving its loyal, adult attendees the finger in favor of pleasing the easily offended and parents of minors.
This is an ANIME convention. There is going to be offensive (to the easily offended) and pg-adult material. If you can't handle it than DON'T GO.

There have been a few threads in the past about this. This is a lost cause.

I know that on the SC forum there is a guy there with multiple accounts who will gang-flame anyone who so much as mentions it so that no one even dares to do so. It's OBVIOUS he's doing this and the mods do nothing. I'm almost convinced he's a plant.

But...I was hoping Kumoricon was better than that

[Rathany]

There is far too much here to respond to  every subject but one did stand out- 'age' and 'content'

 For the love of God please, PLEASE leave it alone!

 This is what has killed Sakura-con. Basically, giving its loyal, adult attendees the finger in favor of pleasing the easily offended and parents of minors.
This is an ANIME convention. There is going to be offensive (to the easily offended) and pg-adult material. If you can't handle it than DON'T GO.

There have been a few threads in the past about this. This is a lost cause.

I know that on the SC forum there is a guy there with multiple accounts who will gang-flame anyone who so much as mentions it so that no one even dares to do so. It's OBVIOUS he's doing this and the mods do nothing. I'm almost convinced he's a plant.

But...I was hoping Kumoricon was better than that

Who?  Wha?  Kcon is not going to do anything to reduce our content aimed at adults, echhi or otherwise.  We've been trying to grow it for years.  Who is saying that we are?

[MichaelEvans]

"There have been a few threads in the past about this. This is a lost cause. Sad"

That's where the confusion is coming from.  It sounds like we're axing adult panels.  I suspect it might have been referring to Sakura Con.

[Rathany]

"There have been a few threads in the past about this. This is a lost cause. Sad"

That's where the confusion is coming from.  It sounds like we're axing adult panels.  I suspect it might have been referring to Sakura Con.

Ah, ok, in any case, we like our yaoi, yuri, hentai and other panels.  Jason Thompson and Carl Horn doing late night yaoi reading FTW. 
Also, we <3 our non-ecchi programming that is aimed at older fans. 

[AllyKat]

Ah, ok, in any case, we like our yaoi, yuri, hentai and other panels.  Jason Thompson and Carl Horn doing late night yaoi reading FTW. 
Also, we <3 our non-ecchi programming that is aimed at older fans. 

Wait? Carl Horn was doing late night Yaoi readings? And I missed this???

*is filled with regret*

How come this Con was so awesome and I missed so much of the awesome-ness doing other awesome things? WHY!!!

*despairs into endless dreaming of cute shonen-ai pairings*
Thats it! I need a LOVELESS Costume and someone MUST be my Soubi.... Who is up to the challenge???

@Anyone thinking we've been talking about cutting Adult content:

I haven't heard that mentioned in this thread once so... unless this is troll infiltration, you are getting way too
worked up in the wrong place. The only time I (or I think anyone) discussed Moving or touching Adult content
was to put it in the extra space we have, so things for people who can't walk outside alone or in small groups
can stay in the main hotel and people who are older, wiser and more mature (example; people who can go to the 18+
events) will take the adventurous road to their panels!

But that was all forum non-binding not even really considered by the board type talk...It's just forumers and noobs like
myself ranting...

But hey someone really should cosplay Soubi for me... ^_^ You don't even have to wear cat ears! ^_^
(jk... no pressure!) Boy love rox socks!

~Allykat

[murder_of_raven]

Jason Thompson and Carl Horn doing late night yaoi reading FTW. 

What what? How did I miss this?!? ::sadface:: What'd they read?

[MichaelEvans]

Suggestion #1 for ADULT content next year... BIGGER ROOMS.  I think we more or less have a good set of events, we just need the space to fit everyone in who wants to go.

[XFD]

"There have been a few threads in the past about this. This is a lost cause. Sad"

That's where the confusion is coming from.  It sounds like we're axing adult panels.  I suspect it might have been referring to Sakura Con.

No, not at all. If source gets called, I can start digging for the thread tomorrow. My #1 complaint is the hypersensitivity that exists in standards to appeal to the general goon-off-the-street parent. The most recent instance was a discussion about a Hellsing cosplay, an in particular a cosplayer who would be dressing up in Nazi garb for a particular villain. The thread derailed to a degree about what is and isn't acceptable in terms of what. After some banter and wanting a cemented answer the final judgement by a mod was, "okay fine you want an absolute answer? It's FINE, unless we change our minds." The meaning of absolute was lost, proving the whole intent on getting a solid rule moot. If someone were to get offended, they'd have to change out of their cosplay. Extend to any number of other things and the rest can get diluted to mediocrity. 

In rereading, if the poster I quoted was referring to adult-specific panels, then my response is irrelevant. As I read it now, though, it seems pretty general to a con and not panel or show-room specific.

[MichaelEvans]

We are of course still bound by the general laws for public places and spaces on the streets between convention areas, and the public areas (lobbies/etc) within the conventions are more or less bound similarly as they are well exposed to the streets.

Certain symbols are highly insightful, and the particular uniforms might cause... reactions that you the cosplayer would not desire from members of the general public you'd run in to.

My solution to this would be, if possible, to have strategic alterations that could be made to make the uniform more 'general period' than 'Faction from period' while not in deeper convention areas/photo-shoots.

[Rathany]

Jason Thompson and Carl Horn doing late night yaoi reading FTW. 

What what? How did I miss this?!? ::sadface:: What'd they read?

I missed is due to needing to do work.  *sad panda*  But, I understand they did Gerard and Jacques and a bunch of other titles.  Andrew from Prog read the sound effects. 

[BigGuy]

Suggestion #1 for ADULT content next year... BIGGER ROOMS.  I think we more or less have a good set of events, we just need the space to fit everyone in who wants to go.

The Hotel only has rooms so big, Jaki works really hard on the schedule to fit in as much stuff as she can. There are already panels and events that can easily fill live1+live2 so making some events bigger would put the others into smaller rooms.

[MichaelEvans]

Suggestion #1 for ADULT content next year... BIGGER ROOMS.  I think we more or less have a good set of events, we just need the space to fit everyone in who wants to go.

The Hotel only has rooms so big, Jaki works really hard on the schedule to fit in as much stuff as she can. There are already panels and events that can easily fill live1+live2 so making some events bigger would put the others into smaller rooms.

Yeah, but I know of at least a few events which should have taken over the next-door rooms even if that meant we'd have to cut some programming.

Anime that Scared me for Life (Live Total)
Hentai (Should have taken over both of those rooms that were right next to each other across the street)
The Yaoi and Yuri panels each should have had similar space; if not Live Total
AMV Overflow and Off Hours AMV (adult AMV) should have had two viewing rooms combined.

[Rathany]

Yeah, but I know of at least a few events which should have taken over the next-door rooms even if that meant we'd have to cut some programming.

Anime that Scared me for Life (Live Total)
Hentai (Should have taken over both of those rooms that were right next to each other across the street)
The Yaoi and Yuri panels each should have had similar space; if not Live Total
AMV Overflow and Off Hours AMV (adult AMV) should have had two viewing rooms combined.

Programming's panelist staff make notes on each panel, including attendance, so they know what is popular and what needs what space.  There are also other considerations, like, combing rooms costs time and money.  The hotel does not do that labor for free, and, IIRC, the labor costs go up after a certain time of night.  Also, what tech setups each room has.  For the adult panels, doubling the entrances means doubling the staff to check age. 

I am not saying that they should get more space, I am saying that there is more to this than you are aware of.

[MichaelEvans]

It sees to be even more of a balancing act than I'd realized.  Any tools I create in the next convention year will definitely need additional feature input to help explore and track the related options.

[Kristy]

Yeah, but I know of at least a few events which should have taken over the next-door rooms even if that meant we'd have to cut some programming.

Anime that Scared me for Life (Live Total)
Hentai (Should have taken over both of those rooms that were right next to each other across the street)
The Yaoi and Yuri panels each should have had similar space; if not Live Total
AMV Overflow and Off Hours AMV (adult AMV) should have had two viewing rooms combined.

Programming's panelist staff make notes on each panel, including attendance, so they know what is popular and what needs what space.  There are also other considerations, like, combing rooms costs time and money.  The hotel does not do that labor for free, and, IIRC, the labor costs go up after a certain time of night.  Also, what tech setups each room has.  For the adult panels, doubling the entrances means doubling the staff to check age. 

I am not saying that they should get more space, I am saying that there is more to this than you are aware of.

Just curious about the programming staff.  In the panels that I ran, I only saw a programming staffer once and it was at my lowest attended panel on Monday.  Were they taking count at every event or only the bigger ones?  The reason I ask is that one of my events will definitely need a bigger room next year, but I wasn't sure if a staffer had been by and taken a headcount.  The Beginner's Para Para panel that I ran was beyond capacity for a good duration of it, even having some people dancing in the halls.  Those that were in the room had some crowding issues and I was concerned that we'd be causing some unintentional injuries from stray flails.  Ha ha.

[Jamiche]

Panels staff were supposed to check in on each panel a couple of times to see how things were going.  Unfortunately, we were understaffed, so they got to as many as they were able.  When you submit for next year, you can indicate on the form how many you expect.  Since your panels were new this year, we guessed on room size... we'll have a better idea for next year

Yes, some of the panel rooms were smaller than anticipated, or what we needed.  And yeah, we could combine rooms, make them larger.  But that takes away from the overall count of rooms, which means less programming.  So, what gets cut?  Who gets the axe because this panel thinks they need a bigger room, or there are a bunch of people that want to see this one?  It's a balancing act, and not a simple one.  We try to make sure there is something offered for everyone.. what may not be your cup of tea may be the one panel that someone else is dying to see.

[@random]

"There have been a few threads in the past about this. This is a lost cause. Sad"

That's where the confusion is coming from.  It sounds like we're axing adult panels.  I suspect it might have been referring to Sakura Con.

No, not at all. If source gets called, I can start digging for the thread tomorrow. My #1 complaint is the hypersensitivity that exists in standards to appeal to the general goon-off-the-street parent. The most recent instance was a discussion about a Hellsing cosplay, an in particular a cosplayer who would be dressing up in Nazi garb for a particular villain. The thread derailed to a degree about what is and isn't acceptable in terms of what. After some banter and wanting a cemented answer the final judgement by a mod was, "okay fine you want an absolute answer? It's FINE, unless we change our minds." The meaning of absolute was lost, proving the whole intent on getting a solid rule moot. If someone were to get offended, they'd have to change out of their cosplay. Extend to any number of other things and the rest can get diluted to mediocrity.  

In rereading, if the poster I quoted was referring to adult-specific panels, then my response is irrelevant. As I read it now, though, it seems pretty general to a con and not panel or show-room specific.

It's theoretically possible someone misread the earlier posts in this thread about wanting to split the con into one kids day, one teens day, and one adult day. That could have the effect of reducing mature content; no need to hearken back to an old unrelated thread.

But in reality, it's probably just someone wanting to start confusion where none really exists.

• A post so nonspecific to its subject often indicates cut/pasting.
• Cut/pasting often indicates that someone is griefing/trolling (trying to get others to waste a lot of time arguing a moot point, while wasting little time yourself).
• It's only brainstorming; there's no indication the split will ever be adopted.

There isn't any particular reason that I know of for anyone to worry about losing mature content. But if someone's honestly worried about it, the best thing to do would be to gain a voice. Become one of the people who actually make all these ideas happen, i.e. join staff. (Like the old joke goes, "Those who can, do. Those who can't, tell others how to do it.")

[ashdandy]

Just giving my two cents:

I've been going to Kumoricon since its debut in Eugene back in 2003. I've never once thought of Kumoricon badly (even though I find that the staff is often rude/yelling/not even responding - but hey, some volunteers are power-trippin... To the polite and courteous staff, thanks!)

However. This has got to be by far the worst convention for Kumoricon thus far, and is my worst convention experience to date :/ I hate to sound as if I'm exaggerating, but it really was. People had tickets for the contests, but both the Hotel and Con Staff REFUSED to let them down in the main events room. I was lucky enough to get down there, but the main events room wasn't even HALF FULL. There was such serious miscommunication (apparently) between the hotel and con-peeps. I have my concerns about rude con staff, but the hotel staff was RIDICULOUS. I couldn't believe the way me and my fellow con-members were being treated. It was very unfair, and as the majority guests of the hotel, we should be treated fairly. It was really stupid that there was a "Normal Hotel Guest Line" and a "Convention Guest Line".... We ARE hotel guests, whether or not we have our badges on.

Unfortunately, due to the two year contract and this years result, I highly doubt I'll be returning to KCon next year - which is extremely sad, but I'd rather spend my money on a vacation I know I'll enjoy. Because seriously, I've never done so little at a con - and not by my choice. Panels were moved/cancelled without warning, and the staff wouldn't let anybody go anywhere - even to the main events.

I'm sure all of this has been heard, and I'm a little late on the bandwagon but I wanted to voice my feelings on the matter. Great job to the staff and other con-goers that were polite, courteous, and understanding - you made things bareable

[Jamiche]

Panels were moved/cancelled without warning,...

Okay, I have seen this posted a couple of different times.  Can someone clarify this for me?  To my knowledge, there were only a couple of panels that were cancelled (due to no-show panelists), and no panels were moved.  I know that some started late (unfortunately, that is not uncommon), but I am unaware of any major changes.  If someone could enlighten me, I would very much appreciate it

[MichaelEvans]

Panels were moved/canceled without warning,...

Okay, I have seen this posted a couple of different times.  Can someone clarify this for me?  To my knowledge, there were only a couple of panels that were canceled (due to no-show panelists), and no panels were moved.  I know that some started late (unfortunately, that is not uncommon), but I am unaware of any major changes.  If someone could enlighten me, I would very much appreciate it

I too would like to know what events you had trouble with.

Are you also sure it wasn't merely confusion with room location/schedule items?   -Several- rooms had similar names and you may have mistaken one for another.  Creation Workshop and 'Workshop' or Creation Panel and Panel 1/2.

[xkuroxhanax]

Just dropping by and giving my thoughts on this year. So, I love Kumoricon. Always have, but this year was definitely the least enjoyable. I mean, cons are always fantastic just being around all the people, but as far as actual con activity and environment, this wasn't the best. My main issues were with the hotel and staff, and the location.

As far as the hotel and staff went, I thought the hotel wasn't exactly big enough for what the con needed. The layout of the con was rather confusing, and having events on the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and then 23rd floors was odd. It also caused an unnecessary amount of elevator congestion, which the hotel staff handled rather poorly, to be honest. I totally understand that hotel staff are stressed when cons are around because there are just so many people running around and going where they shouldn't be, and loitering like none other, but the way the staff was treating con attendees was kind of unacceptable. People who weren't doing anything wrong were getting yelled at and scolded for standing/sitting by couches.

http://fc04.deviantart.com/fs47/i/2009/251/7/3/Summary_of_KumoriCon_2009_by_JailBreakDesigns.jpg

Also, people were constantly getting harassed about needing to move, but the problem was that there weren't many places to go, really. I feel like this con just needs more space. Maybe it's time for a venue change? I think that the con is going to be big enough for the Convention Center, soon. I think that will solve a LOT of problems. Because that actually relates to my other problem with this year's con.

Location. So. This year, the con was right in the heart of downtown, and while I love being downtown and having a bunch of stuff around the con to explore, the area wasn't that well-suited for a convention. I thought the Double Tree last year was fantastic, because not only was there food close-by (Lloyd Center), but there was a great place to just chill and take pictures (Holladay Park). I think the con would be better suited in an area that's less crowded than the main downtown area, personally. Having a park that close-by was lovely.

Of course, the rain played a part in the crowding, but rain is no one's fault, so whatever.

Just thought I would offer my opinions, in case they might help next year, I guess.

[XFD]

http://fc04.deviantart.com/fs47/i/2009/251/7/3/Summary_of_KumoriCon_2009_by_JailBreakDesigns.jpg

Oh man, I'm sorry but that guy just looks plain old ridiculous. Is he trying to sass them with goofy posture?

[Runa]

What's amusing was that everyone CHEERED when we first heard that the convention was moving to Downtown Hilton...
(I was one of the ones who was not thrilled with the idea, but was quiet because I assumed that logistics had been researched. Would it have been better to have kept Kumoricon at the previous hotel? unknown....)

[MichaelEvans]

I was at the 2008 hotel. While I liked the hallways better, and the fact that there were -wide- stairways connecting the only levels of the convention, I felt we were already packed in last year.  That was with sun on most days and practically -filling- that park right across that side-street.

This year?  We'd have probably been shut down for fire-code if we'd happened to be at that hotel with anywhere near the cap we had.

[soundninja12]

Oh oh oh! At opening ceromonies they should tell everyone where the parks are, and things of that sort. It would make it less confusing for those of us who have no clue where we are.

[PaperRoxas]

But there really should've not been that much confusion as maps were made >>  I'm just saying.

It's kind of sad that it will still be at the Hilton next year, however, I think they will get a better handle on things.

[AllyKat]

But there really should've not been that much confusion as maps were made >>  I'm just saying.

It's kind of sad that it will still be at the Hilton next year, however, I think they will get a better handle on things.

Practice makes perfect and it's better if we stop hopping around and have to keep adjusting and training
on new layouts/equipment.

K-Staff will have a good idea of what to expect and the experience to teach others
Hotel staff will have heard the horror stories and will be prepared when they "work the con"
Convention Attendees will be forewarned of lines and will plan ahead (like they should) to see their favs


All in all... seems like 2x in a row might help us be a better con! YAY!

Now if we can just squeeze in a few hundred more poeple.... ^___^

~Allykat

[PaperRoxas]

xD yea seriously allykat

[MichaelEvans]

Hopefully a meeting can be arranged between the new board, the hotel, and the fire marshals; even more hopefully it will have the desired results.

[AllyKat]

Hopefully a meeting can be arranged between the new board, the hotel, and the fire marshals; even more hopefully it will have the desired results.

....Or....

Maybe I'll finally get funding from the evil leauge of evil for my shrink ray! And I'll do a test run on
the convention goers of Kumori-Con! Thus decreasing there size allowing more of them to fit into a
space!

*laughs evilly*

~Allykat

[MichaelEvans]

Maybe I'll finally get funding from the evil leauge of evil for my shrink ray! And I'll do a test run on
the convention goers of Kumori-Con! Thus decreasing there size allowing more of them to fit into a
space!

*laughs evilly*

~Allykat

Unfortunately with everyone reduced to less than 1/4th normal height, legs are unable to use the stairways to exit or reach the second floor.  The elevator is still usable, but sticks are required to reach the upper floors.  The convention is shutdown due to fire code and the police searching for an evil mastermind.

[AllyKat]

good point.... hmmm....

And so the quest continues!

~Allykat

[LtCommanderRichie]

May I suggest making designated line-up areas by cordoning off specific areas into a queue? That way there would no longer be problems with lines going everywhere. And I don't just mean the first ten feet of a line, I mean at least along two walls before doubling back.

Of course if this creates Fire Marshall problems, then I understand why it wasn't implemented this year.

[AllyKat]

May I suggest making designated line-up areas by cordoning off specific areas into a queue? That way there would no longer be problems with lines going everywhere. And I don't just mean the first ten feet of a line, I mean at least along two walls before doubling back.

Of course if this creates Fire Marshall problems, then I understand why it wasn't implemented this year.

I think the biggest reason it wasn't instigated this past year was lack of rope.

~Allykat

[catboy-trades]

This up coming year for the con can there be a place where con goers can go to report abusive hotel staff or con staff?

[AllyKat]

This up coming year for the con can there be a place where con goers can go to report abusive hotel staff or con staff?

Isn't there already a place for that? Most hotel's have comment cards and front desk agents who will take down
names and information and report it to managers, and I'm sure the registration staff or the information desk can
point you to the proper authority to explain your problem to.

Unfortunately there really is no way we could have a "complaint desk" Cause thats just another space.. another crew
and we are already skeleton staff as it is. But deffinetely utilize the channels already in place. If a yoji is rude or abusive,
look for another one and have them point you to the yoji office where you can let the heads of the yojimbo and opperations
staff know. If it's reg staff, ask information or really anyone for the reg coordinator... actually.. you could once again
go back to yoji's and ask them for the ops coordinator...

really, unless you have a problem with the Operations coordinator themselves, or Yoji #1 and #2, go to them and they
should be able to channel/sort out your issues efficiently. If it's with one of them... ask someone for the vice chair
or another board member... Really... any of the higher ups should be able to take your complaint... or show you who can.
Just... ask! ^__^

~Allykat

[Wuntvor]

Suggestion #1 for ADULT content next year... BIGGER ROOMS.  I think we more or less have a good set of events, we just need the space to fit everyone in who wants to go.

The Hotel only has rooms so big, Jaki works really hard on the schedule to fit in as much stuff as she can. There are already panels and events that can easily fill live1+live2 so making some events bigger would put the others into smaller rooms.

Yeah, but I know of at least a few events which should have taken over the next-door rooms even if that meant we'd have to cut some programming.

Anime that Scared me for Life (Live Total)
Hentai (Should have taken over both of those rooms that were right next to each other across the street)
The Yaoi and Yuri panels each should have had similar space; if not Live Total
AMV Overflow and Off Hours AMV (adult AMV) should have had two viewing rooms combined.

I don't know if this would help much, but I found it strange that we had a Q&A with the VA's, a Meet the VA panel for both VA's, and an autograph session for each, and that they were each at different times.  In other words six separate panels.  Is there any reason that the meet the VA's and Autograph sessions couldn't have been combined?  I never actually saw Cynthia and Kirk together during the entire con, nor did I get a chance to see how they might have interacted with each other.  What is it con goes want to see when they have VA guests at a con?  INTERACTION ON STAGE!!  I attended both of Cynthia's panels, and she didn't have a clue as to what was supposed to be different about them.  She ended up repeating stuff she had already stated in the earlier panel, and was asked to perform the same things for the audience in both.  There was also almost nobody present at either panel and one coincided with Kirks autograph session, so everyone was down there in line instead of in her panel.  I really think that a Q&A with each VA, a Meet the VA's with both VA's, and a combined autograph session with all of the convention guests would have worked out better and left more open rooms available. Just make sure you don't arrange them all at the same time as the cosplay contest and the anime dating game.  Or other equally popular events.

[AllyKat]

Is there any reason that the meet the VA's and Autograph sessions couldn't have been combined?  I never actually saw Cynthia and Kirk together during the entire con, nor did I get a chance to see how they might have interacted with each other........She ended up repeating stuff she had already stated in the earlier panel, and was asked to perform the same things for the audience in both.... one coincided with Kirks autograph session, so everyone was down there in line instead of in her panel.  I really think that a Q&A with each VA, a Meet the VA's with both VA's, and a combined autograph session.

This is an excellent proposal that should be brought up at the meeting on October 25th, or perhaps more
poiniently to the new (or re-curring depending) head of Relations. This all depends on the VA's willingness to
work together on a panel and share their time. I do agree that one long "What's Up Seiyu/VA!?" Would benefit
the overall attendance and entertainment level of the VA's appearance, as long as it does not coincide with
some event equally as big. Perhaps that could be an option we present to the new Relations Coordinator:

1) 2-3 hour panel with BOTH or ALL (depending on what we get this year) VA's on Saturday...
and
1) 2 hour panel of Signing and Q & A with the VA's together again.

These'd have to be Looong panels due to the volume of content, but in the end I think people might go
for that and feel like they are getting more out of it.

Is this what you were proposing?

~Allykat

[Rathany]

Is there any reason that the meet the VA's and Autograph sessions couldn't have been combined?  I never actually saw Cynthia and Kirk together during the entire con, nor did I get a chance to see how they might have interacted with each other........She ended up repeating stuff she had already stated in the earlier panel, and was asked to perform the same things for the audience in both.... one coincided with Kirks autograph session, so everyone was down there in line instead of in her panel.  I really think that a Q&A with each VA, a Meet the VA's with both VA's, and a combined autograph session.

This is an excellent proposal that should be brought up at the meeting on October 25th, or perhaps more
poiniently to the new (or re-curring depending) head of Relations. This all depends on the VA's willingness to
work together on a panel and share their time. I do agree that one long "What's Up Seiyu/VA!?" Would benefit
the overall attendance and entertainment level of the VA's appearance, as long as it does not coincide with
some event equally as big. Perhaps that could be an option we present to the new Relations Coordinator:

1) 2-3 hour panel with BOTH or ALL (depending on what we get this year) VA's on Saturday...
and
1) 2 hour panel of Signing and Q & A with the VA's together again.

These'd have to be Looong panels due to the volume of content, but in the end I think people might go
for that and feel like they are getting more out of it.

Is this what you were proposing?

~Allykat

Guys, what the GoHs want to do in terms of panels is kind of up to them.  We can encourage certain types and things like that, but we can't dictate 'hey, do this long cooperative panel'. 

We can try for that, but, keep in mind some of these VAs have never even met.  They don't work in groups to do voices like Japanese VAs.  Some might be friends anyway, and some maybe not?  We did have at least two panels with two GoHs there this year.  Also, we may have panels set for one guest before another is confirmed.  Again, we can encourage this sort of thing, but, we cannot dictate.  Also, the logistics may be a bit harder than you realize. 

[Wuntvor]

This is an excellent proposal that should be brought up at the meeting on October 25th, or perhaps more
poiniently to the new (or re-curring depending) head of Relations. This all depends on the VA's willingness to
work together on a panel and share their time. I do agree that one long "What's Up Seiyu/VA!?" Would benefit
the overall attendance and entertainment level of the VA's appearance, as long as it does not coincide with
some event equally as big. Perhaps that could be an option we present to the new Relations Coordinator:

1) 2-3 hour panel with BOTH or ALL (depending on what we get this year) VA's on Saturday...
and
1) 2 hour panel of Signing and Q & A with the VA's together again.

These'd have to be Looong panels due to the volume of content, but in the end I think people might go
for that and feel like they are getting more out of it.

Is this what you were proposing?

~Allykat

My idea was that there would be a Q&A with each VA like there was this year, but there would then be a combined Meet the VA's Panel were the two (or more) VA's would be together and could compare how their training and experiences were different.  Actually it would probably work out better to have the Meet the VA's panel first and the Q&A panels later.  During the Meet the VA's panel audience participation would be lower, and the VA's would work off of each other.  During the Q&A panels the audience would be able to ask questions of their favorite VA about roles they portrayed, in a one on one style setting.  Then there could be an autograph session for all guests.  I am sure that you may have more items you want signed by one person than another, but still it makes more sense to hold them all together.  They can share special pens, you can get the con book signed by everyone at once, and you only have to stand in line for autographs one time!  When I went to the Star Trek convention with the Fab Four (Scottie, Uhura, Chekov, and Sulu) they had the signing together as a group.  They all appeared together in the same show, but still it worked well having the signing that way, instead of seperate signings for each of them.  They also had other actors from DS9 and Generations who were at the table as well.  Anyone see any reason you couldn't have Svetlana sign your manga, Kirk sign a DVD, and Cynthia sign a poster instead of having three seperate autograph sessions with each? 

[CassieR]

My idea was that there would be a Q&A with each VA like there was this year, but there would then be a combined Meet the VA's Panel were the two (or more) VA's would be together and could compare how their training and experiences were different.  Actually it would probably work out better to have the Meet the VA's panel first and the Q&A panels later.  During the Meet the VA's panel audience participation would be lower, and the VA's would work off of each other.  During the Q&A panels the audience would be able to ask questions of their favorite VA about roles they portrayed, in a one on one style setting.  Then there could be an autograph session for all guests.  I am sure that you may have more items you want signed by one person than another, but still it makes more sense to hold them all together.  They can share special pens, you can get the con book signed by everyone at once, and you only have to stand in line for autographs one time!  When I went to the Star Trek convention with the Fab Four (Scottie, Uhura, Chekov, and Sulu) they had the signing together as a group.  They all appeared together in the same show, but still it worked well having the signing that way, instead of seperate signings for each of them.  They also had other actors from DS9 and Generations who were at the table as well.  Anyone see any reason you couldn't have Svetlana sign your manga, Kirk sign a DVD, and Cynthia sign a poster instead of having three seperate autograph sessions with each? 

As Dawn said, it really depends on the guests. As they are our guests here, we do not force them into doing any panels just because we think it would be great.  We go with their schedules and what they want to talk about. There is also a potential of making the guests feel insulted or undervalued by making them do a panel with someone else, as if they weren't important enough for a panel.  We do make suggestions though, such as "Hey, so-and-so will be at the convention as well, and we know you worked together on this anime, so could you two maybe talk about the anime together?"

As for a group signing, the big problem there is that it would make a much longer line and many people would be frustrated that they had to stand in that line when all they wanted was one person's signature. And it can also be insulting to the guests if its obvious that most people in line are only here for one person, then the other guests are left feeling a lot less important.

In the end, it really depends year to year on what guests we have and what relationships they might have to other guests.

[Animeman73]

Hello everyone, this is Animeman73. Okay, while I'll not say Kumoricon was terrible, because it wasn't too bad in my personal opinion, I will admit there are some things that needed to be fixed. The elevators were definitely a disaster. But opening up the stairs so people could get to their floors who weren't too far up was a stoke of genius in my opinion. I thought that even without the makeshift wall that the live events were in terms of spacing was EPIC in it's awesomeness. While granted my Taekwondo schoolm and I had to do some improvising in terms of space for our demonstration it was overall well done. And part of why we'll probably be coming back.
Okay another issue I had was thew whole upstairs downstairs thing. I unde3rstand the escalators neded to be taken off line. When i was at Orycon30 at the Marriott last year there was a fiasco involving the escalators and a costume. But the way the upstiars annd downstairs were set up was sometimes like unto a maze, a really confusing maze. Could you guys mayhaps do something about that for next year please?
Another problem i had was the lines and the way they were set up, it was at times hard to tell where the linbes began and ended. Could you do something about that for next year as well?
Also VIPs weren't given front row seats for ending ceremonies but were for opening. Do you think you could change that round? And by the way as VIP coordinators go Jaz was EPIC in her awesomeness. And I will give you kudos for making the lines neat. AlthoughI had to ask around before learninbg thaat VIPs could go to the front of the lines for stuff such as say the dealers hall. Do you think you could put up a sign or two making that clear, it's only a suggestion.
Still all in all you did a pretty good job and I know you'll get these bugs fixed for next year. ANd Wuntvor, I did notice with her second panel that Cynthia Martinez's audience was rather small. I must admit to my shame that I didn't know who she was until I looked her up on wikpedia and the Anime News Network. What convinced me to go see her when I learned she was in Tactics. (Thank goodness for Ani-Monday on SyFy) And I have to admit I felt kind of sorry for her as well because she has a bubbly and enegetic personality that I liked a lot. Considering she has three kids you have to at least be energetic to keep up with them (But then again having a child yourself Wuntvor you probably know that). Anyway that's about all the complaints I have. I won't say that Kumoricon was terrible...but there is room for improvement. And I have faith you'll get the situation for next year under better control. That's why you guys at Kumoricon have got me for life (or at least as long as I can move).