Author Topic: Plans to make 2010 even better  (Read 54432 times)

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Offline AllyKat

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Re: Plans to make 2010 even better
« Reply #150 on: April 23, 2010, 04:21:41 pm »
I want to post my concerns about last year *** NOTE IM TOO LAZY TO READ ALL 10 PAGES****



overcapacity rule.
     What is the legal capacity for the hotel? we had thousands of people there but the hotel kept on interrupting our events in rooms cuz we had too many people in one room. I was in the the Hentai panel. That had only one viewing during the whole con and had about 100 people * that i saw for myself* who wanted to go. but the hotel staff wouldn't let people stand to watch the event, and there was only 30 chairs. before the hotel staff came in there was about 50 people in the room 30 in chairs 20 standing in the back. the hotel kicked them all out!!! saying its a fire hazard and then 50 more people tried to get in but was turned away. I personally didnt think it would be that bad because one it was curfew time for the younger people (less threw traffic). Also it was in the hotel part that had hardly anyone in it. and that wasnt the only thing they interrupted. they took away the ramen for the ramen eating contest, and the food for the host club also was taken. Overall the Hotel staff were not con friendly at all. We should have told them if you can supply us the same product for teh same price FINE!! serve us your ramen for the contest for free , or the food in the events for the same price. Also we couldn't do congo lines during the dance!! that was a fire hazord!! its not like if there was a fire the people wouldnt have broken it up and ran for the doors. -----huff--huff--- glad that got out of me ^_-

I went to the rant and rave after the con and everyone was mad at the hotel. There was a movement going on!!! so many people had a bad experience because of the hotel. I cant wait for us to be in a different location.

there should be more hentai panels offered. somany people got turned away

I want to address your concerns because I think it speaks to a lot of peoples knowledge of how hotels run.

Remember those bottles of water they put in hotel rooms? Or the "mini bar" they talk about in movies? Remember how its like $3 for a bottle of water or $12 for a premixed mini-cocktail?
Take all that overpricing and multiply it at least by 3 and you get the overpricing that goes on for in house catering, and every other little thing (even electricity) you use at the hotel. Hold on to this information, because you'll need it later in my answer.

CAPACITY: Every room has a super secret special number that exists in the ethereal wonder somewhere that will come down on us like a ban-hammer of epic death if we exceed it. Fire marshal's are all powerful and exist to protect the safety and worst case scenario mortality of an event space. Basically this means that even if there are only 5 other people in the hotel, you can't fit 50 people in a room that only safely holds 30. And just because we think we could fit a few more chairs, does not make us right. Fire Marshals have final say.
Here's where that becomes a problem; Hotel tells us that x room can fit y people in it with z setup. We bring in y people to x room after setting it up in z style. The fire marshal comes in and says we can only have q people in the room and also gives us a warning if we keep breaking fire code, we could get shut down. We become nervous because the numbers we were given for x room no longer apply, which means that the numbers for all the other rooms could also be in correct. Suddenly having more than 4,000 people in the event space is impossible, and the con is 1 day in and more people are coming into reg.
Its a night mare, but it happened. Now my job is to preempt the horror of "You can't have that many people in this room!"

FOOD PANELS: No matter what, this is something that absolutely has to go through the director of programming. You cannot have food in a panel unless you go through her. Even if you just plan some little quick contests. When in doubt, ask the director or your panel's coordinator who answers to the Director of Programming. Why? Because what you do in those panels reflects our business relationship with the hotel. When we allow a panel to go off in a hotel room run by a fan, we are counting on you to represent Kumoricon in the best way possible.
If sneaking past rules by not telling us about food you plan to have in the panel occurs and the hotel or we find out, the Hotel comes to use with the infraction, and it goes on our record with them. While this may not seem like a big deal with a hotel that many believe did us wrong more time than not, we do NOT need that kind of bad publicity.
When in doubt, ask the Director of Programming. If you think your panel MIGHT involve something that may need clearance, ASK! do not ever ever ever hide it and think you will "get away" with doing it at the convention.
I think a ramen or Japanese noodle eating contest could be fun! But only if done through the proper channels, and that includes running it through Programming so THEY can get the proper tools, clearance and food items that will make your event a success. IF however, the director or the programming staff cannot get approval on food, or cannot find the funds to make it a reality, you have to respect that, there are a ton of panels that want to occur every year, and not all of them get in, so not all of them are going to get everything they want.
Trust me, the worst thing anyone could possibly do is try and do a food panel without permission.
On that same subject, food in panels will ALWAYS cost money, no way around it. And they wont offer it to us free because THEY are doing us a service by allowing us to even have food in one of their rooms. Think about it, they are a business, and they could either not allow us to do something, or charge us a good deal of money to do it. Thats the perfect model, whether we like it or not is irrelevant, EVERY hotel will run that way, in accordance with the industry.

HENTAI PANEL/MORE PANELS: Wouldn't that be neat! I agree, there should be more panels, but there should also be more space, and we don't have it. There is a sparkly magic algorithm I'm sure that spits out the amount of panels and types we can have at any given time, including how many staffers we have late at night and the like.  My job is to find Jaki (or the Programming Directors of Christmas future) more space, so she in turn can approve more panels...

But EVERYONE who loves K-con has a job to do; Find more staff!
We really need way more staff to run as fantastically streamline as I know we want to be, it just takes more hands and we can really get a lot moving! With so many over worked staff, we really are running a miracle with a skeleton crew! So thank and love the staff around you, and go find them help! ^_^

A lot of this is mostly just my personal observation, when you have questions, ask the Director or staffer in charge of that specific section of the convention for more specific clarification, we are always willing to help people become more informed! Knowledge is power!

And thanks guys for understanding all the hard work everyone did last year, we appreciate it and I'm sure everyone appreciates the support for this year!
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Offline ArienDrakon

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Re: Plans to make 2010 even better
« Reply #151 on: May 05, 2010, 03:43:23 pm »
Hey I might not have been clear. For that I apologize, but I was wondering if I could get some feedback on my concerns from the previous page.
I think this Christmas thing Is not as tricky as it seems, And why should they have all the fun? It should belong to anyone! Not anyone in fact, but me! Why I could make a Christmas tree... I bet I could improve it, too, And that's exactly what I'll do!

Offline pyronine

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Re: Plans to make 2010 even better
« Reply #152 on: May 05, 2010, 09:26:18 pm »
A little note about ally, we joined on the same day, last year at con. She has done a tremendous job as Facilities Liaison. That is a board memeber position, not just regular staff, she jumped into the position and has made tremendous leaps and bounds. Board members have a lot more duties throughout the year than most, it can be considered a second job.

And she is right FIND MORE STAFF!!! I couldnt believe how con was run by so few staff members.

So please If you want to make con better, try helping out, we did.
=^_^=

Offline AllyKat

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Re: Plans to make 2010 even better
« Reply #153 on: May 08, 2010, 01:37:23 am »
Sorry ArienDrakon, Lets see what I can comment on.... And for future reference, even if I don't reply to something someone posts, that doesn't mean I didn't read it. Either I assumed I had already commented on the subject or I don't have anything new to add. I don't hate chya! Just not always chatty! :)

Ok first let me say a thanks to all the Kumoricon staff as they did excellent with what they had to work with. Having been staff at things before I know how it is to be stuck between various rules, regulations, fun, attendees, owners, other staff and all that jazz.

You have no idea (well maybe a little bit of an idea) how much this means to staffers! They do everything they do for free, often times working sleepless nights or tirelessly for the simple joy of being able to say "I helped". The fact that people appreciate the work they do... makes it worth coming back each year, and we need Staff Retention, so those comments are a big help!

Quote
However I did want to present some thoughts and concerns I had about last year. And yes I read the previous pages.

My first concern is with the lobby and hallways. I know fire regulations prohibit blocking exits and entrances. Also I understand keeping walkways clear so it’s not one big human wall. However in areas like the lobby or a huge hallway I really enjoy just hanging out and talking to people. However on several occasions we were told by hotel staff and kumo staff that we had to keep moving. We weren’t allowed to sit on the carpet in the lobby or stand next to seats. Only people who had seats were allowed to remain. For the rest of us we were basically pushed outside in the rain, even those of us who were hotel guests. We never had this problem at any of the hotels in the past 4-5 years. What little there was, was never to the extent that it was at the Hilton.

Without sounding like a repeat of exactly what you just said; Fire regulations prohibit a MILLION and one things, safety codes and the fact that we are GUESTS in the hotel, not owners of it make it hard to fight those rules. Think about it this way; even if I were paying full price for the whole hotel, and the convention space, that doesn't give me the right to bring a bunch of people into the lobby and sit on the floor and hang around, essentially loitering does it? Unfortunately for our lovely group, it does not. We have to treat the hotel as it is meant to be treated, which means sitting, where sitting is allowed (chairs) and moving along in traffic ways. I realize this isn't easy, and I realize that that person dressed up as Riku has been sitting in the red chairs for 4 hours and she and her friends will NOT move and let other people sit down... but I don't control them, they have free will to be jerks, as long as they aren't sitting on the floor or blocking traffic in the hall way.

That may indeed suck, but every single hotel is gonna have that rule. Especially nicer ones with the amount of space and facilities we require. We are a very unique group. That gives us some leeway... but it doesn't do much for our ability to have an Anime Sit-in. I am sorry about that, I wish I could change that, but Until a good, safe, secure and legal way to make a public lobby a hangout appears, we just have to play by the rules.

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My second concern is the hotel staff blocking of entire floors, via escalators, saying that there is only one event down there and it’s full. So they didn’t let us move down to the floor even if there actually was another event about to start or even just to look around to familiarize myself with the layout of the place.

This coincides with the ever present fire codes. And all I can say is, there are new things going into function that should prevent SOME of the pile ups. Can't guarantee it'll all magically go away, but thats the way the hotel is laid out, and we can't change that. Certain areas HAD to be closed off because the fire marshal outright said if we put any one else in an area we'd break fire code AGAIN (believe it or not we were having issues with this all weekend, and we did NOT need to get into a bad tiff with the city of Portland and the fire marshals. I realize that if an event should be starting and you can't get to wear it is is frustrating, but please be patient, we will try and work it out as best as possible. 

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Thirdly is the masks. Now I know that masks have been an issue with past hotels, but usually by the second day they lighten up and are ok with them. I was told during all three days at the Hilton though that my mask was not to be worn. I being Jack Skellington need my mask to complete the costume, but I was told that I could never have it on except for a quick photo. It’s really frustrating, especially since that is one of fulcrums for a con is the ability to dress up.

I apologize that this situation made it difficult for you. It's never fun to be the one at the party screwed by the rules. But you are right, this is a issue at EVERY hotel. In fact, most hotels have a much more strict mask policy than any attendee will ever see because we put a lot of time into coaxing as much freedom out of them as possible.
A lot of things with masks were communication errors. And for that I'm sure you understand, we are sympathetic. While I know most of the staff was doing their best to continue to uphold the rules, things changed a lot mid convention, information was brought to light that changed things, and rules that hadn't been common knowledge were suddenly being forced on everyone. It makes it hard, and everyone has a right to be stressed about it. While I can't change the past, rest assured I will make the Costume Policy as clear and specific as possible and I will be informing the hotel and every staffer that will be working with us and you of the policies that affect them and you. Thats the best I can offer anyone.

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My last thought, that has been talked about a bit in previous pages, is getting organized with age limits at events. Several events I attended that was, according to some material, adult only, ended up being any age. This confusion caused various costumed events with some people dressing up and behaving in adult manor not knowing that it had been changed to a kid friendly event. One confrontation with one of my friends at one of these events had an accusing tone to the attire. They ended up crying and left feeling humiliated. There was sympathy and comfort offered, but it didn’t change the initial reaction of ‘you know this is a kids event so you are blatantly breaking the rules’ tone that was taken. (Note: all the other events I attended were very amusing and well organized. So great job on them in my opinion)

I don't... exactly understand the situation here... As far as I was ever aware (and I was a attendee at the convention for 2009 so while I went to a lot of events, I by no means went to them all) All the adult panels I went to were adult, and all the all ages were all ages. I have found, however, that people were listening to people about certain things with second hand "he said, she said" telephone  style communications. Nothing about programming is easy... but events that are being run by the convention are pretty safe bets... however, there are these wonderful panels and things that Attendees ask to run... and... while we try to give them every ounce of help and support we can, we have to trust our panelists to go by what they have given us, or someone to tell us if things go wrong.

An adult panel rating (by this I think you mean 18+) will ALWAYS require some kind of ID/Ident checking at the door. If this is not done, consider the panel a PG event... ALWAYS. If we don't check ID then there is a chance, A VERY GOOD CHANCE, a kid could wander in and see or hear things they are not permitted to hear. That, is a big legal problem. If what I am hearing from you is true then there should have been clear signals that something was off about the audience or the make up of the panel. Regardless, I feel for your friend who clearly sounds like they were not trying to cause a scene, but ended up in the middle of a difficult situation. It can only be, for me... a reminder to be vigilant and to remind EVERYONE that you can NEVER be too careful, even in a 18+ panel room, always assume that there is the potential for a child to be watching unless you entered the room after being IDed. That is your only assurance, and your only safety net, other wise, assume all bets are on. I'd live by that at any convention.

[/quote]
I know not everyone experienced all these things, but a lot of my friends did. Again let me say that the Kumo staff is awesome, and I don’t doubt the resolve of the hotel managers to help keep us happy. That said though it was really frustrating and on more that one occasion I left the hotel for just wandering around the city, just out of frustration. I know it will be better this year (insert faith in you guys here!), but if I knew what it would have been like last year before I went I never would have attended.

Sorry for the long post and please don’t think I’m trying to pick on you guys cause you guys rule! It’s just a couple wrinkles that if straightened out would make con epic again!

[/quote]

I for one appreciate your comments. They keep me on my game and in my thinking cap... I need to remain fresh to the problems of the past year to ensure they are not repeated.

Hope my answers helped you some... at least for peace of mind...

Oh, and by the way Pyro... thanks for the love! You rock too! If it wasn't for you and Brandon standing outside that first meeting, being so friendly and positive to me, I'm might have never had the courage to really get involved... thanks a million!
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Offline snowshoedtiger

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Re: Plans to make 2010 even better
« Reply #154 on: May 11, 2010, 10:56:04 pm »
Excuse my ignorance but, what is signage? ???
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Offline AllyKat

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Re: Plans to make 2010 even better
« Reply #155 on: May 11, 2010, 11:45:18 pm »
Excuse my ignorance but, what is signage? ???

The signs we put up in the hotel directing you to things/people/events/points of interest

ie;  Sign next to elevator which reads: "ELEVATOR THIS WAY ->"
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Offline snowshoedtiger

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Re: Plans to make 2010 even better
« Reply #156 on: May 14, 2010, 11:25:38 pm »
Excuse my ignorance but, what is signage? ???

The signs we put up in the hotel directing you to things/people/events/points of interest

ie;  Sign next to elevator which reads: "ELEVATOR THIS WAY ->"
Oh! Ok, thank you.
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Offline KHking

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Re: Plans to make 2010 even better
« Reply #157 on: May 16, 2010, 10:50:00 am »
I have two suggestions:
1) Let us wear masks.
2) Nicer hotel staffers. They were kind of jerks.

Save Caprica!!

Offline Midnight Divine

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Re: Plans to make 2010 even better
« Reply #158 on: July 06, 2010, 11:10:24 pm »
I agree with KHking, the mask rule really ruined Kumoricon 2009 for me because I went as Rorschach and my mask cost me a lot of money, as soon as I walked in they made me take it off. I was very bummed out. I heard it won't change this year, but it's a con!, so many people go there to have fun and most people spend a lot of money on there masks just to know you can only wear it in the ballroom area and some of the events. It should be allowed everywhere!
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Offline LexManos

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Re: Plans to make 2010 even better
« Reply #159 on: July 07, 2010, 12:08:00 am »
Let me explain the mask thing, from my understanding (its been a year so its kinda fuzzy)
But the Con itself only actually rents the ROOMs that the events/panels are being held in. And we can pretty much do whatever we want in those rooms.
However the hallways between the rooms, and the main lobby, remain hotel public access.
It is against hotel policy to wear a mask in their space.
So basically the rule became, While in rooms, Masks ok, Everywhere else, No.
This is because of the hotel, not the con.

And honestly, this only came up after they received a few complaints from the non-con hotel guests.

Also, to address the overcapacity thing, the number isn't secret. It's actually posted in every room, by law. Though, you are correct that it fluctuates based on the setup of the room. But there is actually a formula to figure it out. I'll see if I can find it in my law books.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2010, 12:13:40 am by LexManos »

Offline Midnight Divine

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Re: Plans to make 2010 even better
« Reply #160 on: July 07, 2010, 12:54:12 am »
That's what I thought. You can wear your masks in the ballroom area, in your room, the kumoricon events, and downstairs where you can buy things, and outside correct?. I also heard that the mask rule is also a fire hazard rule?
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Offline LexManos

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Re: Plans to make 2010 even better
« Reply #161 on: July 07, 2010, 01:39:24 am »
As far as I know (its 1:30am u.u) masks have nothing to do with the fire code.
And like I said, the spaces where the con actually rents, masks were ok (or so we yoji were told).
As for outside, as far as I know, theres no law about walking around town with a mask on. Its a hotel policy that restricts it.
THOUGH the majority of all establishments also have anti-mask rules. (If you ever walk into a store, look by the doors theres usually something saying no-masks, especially if the place gets robbed a lot)

Bottom line: Either do a cosplay without a mask, or make it easily removable.
And from the talks I had with the hotel staff last year, helmets are ok, as long as the FACE is visible.
Basically Good bad

*Note: I haven't had the cash to go to the meetings this year, I am solely going on common sense and last year. My word is not law.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2010, 01:41:21 am by LexManos »

Offline Midnight Divine

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Re: Plans to make 2010 even better
« Reply #162 on: July 07, 2010, 02:04:05 am »
Well thank you for taking the time and informing me about these details. I'm going as Hei from Darker Than Black so my face will be covered up, but like last year, in the areas I shouldn't keep my mask on, it will be on top on my head or to the side, so that my way my face is visible. Thanx again.
"You can make all the excuses you want. But you're the one who decided how to live your life". -Mugen

Offline AllyKat

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Re: Plans to make 2010 even better
« Reply #163 on: July 07, 2010, 09:44:55 am »
On Masks:

This is a HOTEL policy, and no hotel has been more Lenient to us than the Hilton, historically.
Most of the hotels we go to have a NO MASKS whatsoever policy. This is for the comfort of
their other guests and the outside public. Why? Because people in masks apparently upset normals.
We don't have to agree with it or like it, we just have to respect it.

The hotel has been kind enough to allow us to wear our masks in the convention spaces that are
not visible to the "public" IE: any place that ISN'T the main lobby. If you are on the main lobby,
we ask you to remove your masks. Anywhere else the hotel has permitted us to wear our masks.

If this is confusing for anyone, feel free to PM me regarding the issue and I can explain what
this means. And of course, if this rule ever changes by the hotel, I will do my best to inform everyone
of the changes in a timely manner.
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Offline KHking

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Re: Plans to make 2010 even better
« Reply #164 on: July 07, 2010, 09:09:15 pm »
^Good. Then when I do Pyramid Head eventually, I will just carry the helmet around with me until I'm out of the lobby.
Normal people are oversensitive, btw.   :D

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Offline taru678

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Re: Plans to make 2010 even better
« Reply #165 on: July 14, 2010, 07:14:51 pm »
I hate to bring the subject of the rave again but I would just like to know something... Why do the minors have to be out by midnight...? I would just like to know because there is a under-age night club down the street called The Escape. Its for ages 15+ and they don't close until 4 a.m..I guess that i could be hotel rules..but don't the adults(18+) stay way after midnight?? And as I've said I hate to bring this up and this problem has probably been fixed or something..I was just wondering why it was like this last year? I hope I put this in the right place. :)

Offline LexManos

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Re: Plans to make 2010 even better
« Reply #166 on: July 14, 2010, 07:32:14 pm »
Go to page 10 and read the debate over it, but to sum up. It's the law. Portland Curfew is 12am-6am for 14-17.
I *think* the loophole for the escape is that it is private property and curfew does not apply to private property. Though, closing at 4am, in the middle of curfew, sounds like a jerk thing to do.

When it comes to the con, basically, we are mimicking Portland laws. So that we and the attendees don't get in trouble.
The escape is a prime example, say there are 100 teens in there parting it up. Then it closes at 4am so they kick everyone out.
You now have 100 cases of curfew violation.

Like I said, go back to page 10 for more detailed information.

Offline taru678

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Re: Plans to make 2010 even better
« Reply #167 on: July 14, 2010, 08:44:43 pm »
Well they don't kick everyone out at 4 am they make sure everyone is gone before closing but 4am is just the usual time everyone leaves. Not to mention that people hang out outside and stuff and the cops always pass by. 

Offline LexManos

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Re: Plans to make 2010 even better
« Reply #168 on: July 14, 2010, 08:48:25 pm »
Still doesn't mean they aren't breaking curfew.
If the escape stays open till 6am, then they are fine.
Its the customer's choice to break curfew by leaving the club early then.
Point being, we're mimicking the law. Thats why we have curfew at midnight.
This really isn't a debate, like I said, read page 9-10 for more information.

Offline taru678

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Re: Plans to make 2010 even better
« Reply #169 on: July 15, 2010, 06:33:45 am »
Yeah...I was not trying to debate though. I was just curious as to how the escape did it and why kumoricon can't but i guess i didn't think of it like that. lol thanks for all of the help ;p

Offline Animeman73

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Re: Plans to make 2010 even better
« Reply #170 on: July 15, 2010, 04:03:07 pm »
Okay folks I have something very....NICE to say. Your VIP coordinator recently sent me a questionaire on what i would and wouldn't like to see among other things. It was an excellent idea my compliments to Jasmine on such a fine idea and anyone else who helped come up with it.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 01:17:36 pm by Animeman73 »
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Offline The_Panda

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Re: Plans to make 2010 even better
« Reply #171 on: August 03, 2010, 11:43:43 pm »
So, did we figure out what we were doing about the Rave? Last I heard, we might take out the guest band, or just move everything back, time-wise.

And I believe that I saw someone say that the dances didn't matter too much. I disagree entirely. Half of my K-con is doing the rave. That is a great outlet for all the energy that is stored up during the day. Me and my friends are HUGELY disappointed that dances are just being put at second priority to minors.

I ask again, is there anything being done about including minors in the rave?

Offline AllyKat

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Re: Plans to make 2010 even better
« Reply #172 on: August 04, 2010, 02:02:16 am »
Short Answer: Yes

Long Answer: When Programing Schedule is up you will see what I mean.

Sorry, I'm not the correct person to answer this question, and I'm bound to answer it wrong, but I do know things have been done to make this work.
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Offline camname21

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Re: Plans to make 2010 even better
« Reply #173 on: August 10, 2010, 12:57:03 am »
That's what I thought. You can wear your masks in the ballroom area, in your room, the kumoricon events, and downstairs where you can buy things, and outside correct?. I also heard that the mask rule is also a fire hazard rule?
The only thing that was not answered here was "downstairs where you can buy things."  You are not allowed to wear your mask in dealers hall, this is because of theft and being able to see people just like a regular store.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2010, 12:57:37 am by camname21 »