Author Topic: Obama is Prez  (Read 16088 times)

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Offline melchizedek

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Obama is Prez
« on: January 20, 2009, 09:09:35 am »
As of a few mins ago
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Offline soundninja12

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2009, 09:12:56 am »
*happy spaz*
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Offline makichan

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2009, 09:22:53 am »
::dances:: xDDD
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Offline Deviant Spider

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2009, 09:54:48 am »
I wish him luck, I sure as heck wouldnt want to fix all this mess. :)
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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2009, 01:18:10 pm »
YAY

I didn't get to watch the innauguration because I had finals in school but I'm sure Jon Stewart and Colbert will provide me with some warped version of what happened ;D

Offline Cassiopeia

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2009, 01:35:27 pm »
I got to skip 1st - 3rd period and watch the inauguration at Cinetopia. 8D

I feel so lucky. Or rather, sad for everyone else who couldn't, such as my classmates who either only got to see part of it or didn't see it at all. It was really inspiring to see it live and know that all those people were there looking forward to the same thing at the same time and all that jazz. Eheh, I dunno, it was just really special to me. 

This whole "rebuilding America" goal is gonna be tough. Thanks to Obama we've got hope going for us, but it could still yet be crushed. I hope he does a good job with the government in the coming years. :)
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Offline TurboSaiyanJason

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2009, 01:46:56 pm »
I was tossed a tape to record the parade so I am (did).

I was watching and wondering how long of a walk he took down the street with not too many bodyguards closely around him. Maybe it was just the camera angle. If it wasn't, then we have a brave and trusting president going into office, which is a good thing. :)
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Offline uoarh

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2009, 02:28:28 pm »
After the complete and utter hopelessness of the last two elections I can be happy again : )
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Offline Prince Nori

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2009, 03:25:46 pm »
YES.

Offline MiriaRose

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2009, 03:51:25 pm »
I had my English final while he was swearing in. I wanted to skip it to watch the inaugeration. I mean, I can speak English pretty well, y'know?

I didn't think it'd go over too well, though. >.>
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Offline jaybug

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2009, 04:34:23 pm »
I am so glad the only mishaps were that some people couldn't get to their seats, and that Obama and Chief Justice Roberts messed up their lines a bit. I was really afraid someone would try to do something really nasty to dash our hopes right in front of our eyes. I worry about that too much now. I'm going to be making many prayers for a while now, I think.
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Offline Blackstar

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2009, 05:38:45 pm »
ME SO HAPPY they say we get the best leaders in the hardest times. GO OBAMA
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Offline princessmoon

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2009, 06:14:33 pm »
Yay! I'll probably catch glimpses of it on the news 2night. but anyways.... YAY!!!
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Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2009, 07:47:04 pm »
I don't mean to kill anyone's buzz's, but I'm waiting to see him do something "incredible."  As someone who supported McCain, I'm not really looking too forward to these next 4 years.  I do hope I'm partially wrong, but I can guarantee that he won't please me nearly as much as he seems to have pleased you guys.  Guessing the next four years can be kinda fun, eh?  Let's watch...
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Offline MiriaRose

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2009, 07:49:37 pm »
Wash, if he does good, I'll be happy, if he does bad, I'll be complaining. Even as someone with a more liberal bias.

Anyways, McCain or Obama, we got a new president! That's exciting.  :D
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Offline Blackstar

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2009, 07:58:10 pm »
It true McCain would have made a great prez. But me and most of america thinks Obama will do a better job.
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Offline TanisNikana

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2009, 08:00:23 pm »
At the outset of a presidential administration, on day one the most anyone can do is to cheer the new president on. What're they gonna say, "Obama's been in office for twenty minutes now and he hasn't turned the economy around"?

Once the president has had time to do some things in office, that's when we can criticize him, constructively or destructively.

Offline RemSaverem

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2009, 08:05:07 pm »
Easily one of the best and most important events in any of our lifetimes.
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Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2009, 08:05:42 pm »
Perhaps.
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Offline Deviant Spider

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2009, 08:24:57 pm »
Quote
I don't mean to kill anyone's buzz's, but I'm waiting to see him do something "incredible."

LOL Id love to see him fly or have lazer beam eyes or somthing. Now THAT would be an amazing president! I wouldnt mind living with a super hero as a president. Of course if Obama can even fix a few things from the way they are it will be super ok with me. :)
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Offline Blackstar

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2009, 08:26:39 pm »
Quote
I don't mean to kill anyone's buzz's, but I'm waiting to see him do something "incredible."

LOL Id love to see him fly or have lazer beam eyes or somthing. Now THAT would be an amazing president! I wouldnt mind living with a super hero as a president. Of course if Obama can even fix a few things from the way they are it will be super ok with me. :)

Tell it as it is. So true so true
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oslapedo

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2009, 08:43:30 pm »
COLBERT ENDORSES OBAMA, FINALLY 8D

Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2009, 08:46:19 pm »
COLBERT ENDORSES OBAMA, FINALLY 8D

At least for now, but wait for about three months; he'll probably be one of the first to make fun of him for something.
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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2009, 08:52:26 pm »
He's gonna be nice to Obama until he stops being popular :D

Offline Deviant Spider

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2009, 08:54:23 pm »
lol it would be bad for ratings otherwise......
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Offline MiriaRose

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2009, 08:55:45 pm »
xD He said he would support Obama until he stops being popular.
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oslapedo

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2009, 08:56:45 pm »
Beat ya to it Kristee ;)

Offline MiriaRose

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2009, 08:57:47 pm »
What I meant was, he never said anything about being nice. xD

He "endorsed" Obama during the election, too. xD He said it a few times.
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Offline jaybug

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2009, 09:03:52 pm »
So has anyone checked out the White House new web site yet?

Are you going to do something to help president Obama out? Or just hold your hand out?
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Offline TanisNikana

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2009, 03:52:01 pm »
In the first two weeks since the election, President-elect Barack Obama has broken with a tradition established over the past eight years through his controversial use of complete sentences, political observers say.

Millions of Americans who watched Mr. Obama's appearance on CBS's 60 Minutes on Sunday witnessed the president-elect's unorthodox verbal tic, which had Mr. Obama employing grammatically correct sentences virtually every time he opened his mouth.

But Mr. Obama's decision to use complete sentences in his public pronouncements carries with it certain risks, since after the last eight years many Americans may find his odd speaking style jarring.

According to presidential historian Davis Logsdon of the University of Minnesota, some Americans might find it "alienating" to have a president who speaks English as if it were his first language.

"Every time Obama opens his mouth, his subjects and verbs are in agreement," says Mr. Logsdon. "If he keeps it up, he is running the risk of sounding like an elitist."

The historian said that if Mr. Obama insists on using complete sentences in his speeches, the public may find itself saying, "Okay, subject, predicate, subject predicate -- we get it, stop showing off."

The president-elect's stubborn insistence on using complete sentences has already attracted a rebuke from one of his harshest critics, Gov. Sarah Palin of Alaska.

"Talking with complete sentences there and also too talking in a way that ordinary Americans like Joe the Plumber and Tito the Builder can't really do there, I think needing to do that isn't tapping into what Americans are needing also," she said.

Offline jaybug

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #30 on: January 22, 2009, 06:24:59 pm »
Gasp, you mean he might pronounce the word nuclear, nuclear? Not nuke-you-lur? Yeah, gotta admit I have said nuke-you-lur a time or two. Must have been because of whom I was speaking with.

So if you don't like turning Gitmo into a government employee resort, how about a foreign language school for the military?
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Offline Prinz Eugen

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #31 on: January 22, 2009, 07:43:41 pm »
And for those of you who thought O. and his magic administration would somehow mean an *end* to racial strife, or divisiveness, or discrimination:

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/01/22/video-no-stimulus-money-for-white-males/

Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #32 on: January 22, 2009, 08:00:38 pm »
I think they should've left GBay as it was, just do a better job following rules.  (Even though those Islamic terrorists don't deserve any fair treatment).

That reminds me, I heard a story about Post-World War II Philippines.  There was an area that was being attacked by Islamic terrorists where Westerners were stationed at still.  After one particular attack, some of the terrorists were captured and were gonna be executed.  Before that, they were sprayed with pig blood.  In Islamic tradition, if you touch a pig and die before you can pray for forgiveness, you go th their version of Hell.  Once the spraying happened, they were all killed before they could've made their prayers, except for one of them.  That one was released.  Why?  So he could run back to his buddies and tell them what had happened.  There hadn't been an attack anywhere near that place in about 35-40 years.

We should do that to the GBay prisoners who want to be found guilty and executed as martyrs.
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Offline Prinz Eugen

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #33 on: January 22, 2009, 08:03:20 pm »
When do they start printing the Obama countdown calendars?

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #34 on: January 22, 2009, 08:38:05 pm »
never
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Offline Prinz Eugen

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #35 on: January 22, 2009, 08:39:48 pm »
We can always code one in Javascript for the desktop...

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #36 on: January 22, 2009, 08:43:18 pm »
no you can I am a democrat (and I an admit I am too left wing but that what I believe)
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Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #37 on: January 22, 2009, 09:11:20 pm »
 ???
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Offline MiriaRose

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #38 on: January 22, 2009, 09:11:59 pm »
I think they should've left GBay as it was, just do a better job following rules.  (Even though those Islamic terrorists don't deserve any fair treatment).

That reminds me, I heard a story about Post-World War II Philippines.  There was an area that was being attacked by Islamic terrorists where Westerners were stationed at still.  After one particular attack, some of the terrorists were captured and were gonna be executed.  Before that, they were sprayed with pig blood.  In Islamic tradition, if you touch a pig and die before you can pray for forgiveness, you go th their version of Hell.  Once the spraying happened, they were all killed before they could've made their prayers, except for one of them.  That one was released.  Why?  So he could run back to his buddies and tell them what had happened.  There hadn't been an attack anywhere near that place in about 35-40 years.

We should do that to the GBay prisoners who want to be found guilty and executed as martyrs.
You must really dislike McCain and his anti-torture views.
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Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #39 on: January 22, 2009, 09:15:35 pm »
No, I like him, at least more than Obama; plus, McCain has a very good reason for his opposition to torture.  However, those guys have it coming!  Have their lasts miserable seconds of life be filled with horror.  They did all of this because they feel it was Allah's will; I say we deny them that.
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Offline MiriaRose

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #40 on: January 22, 2009, 09:20:05 pm »
I think that school of thought can be applied to a lot of situations, including ones that would hurt Americans and innocent people. In any case, I don't believe in torture on the off-chance that they're terrorists. If you're really gonna do awful things to them, then just kill them quickly.

The only thing about closing G-Bay is, what are we gonna do with them? =\
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Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #41 on: January 22, 2009, 09:46:41 pm »
In any case, I don't believe in torture on the off-chance that they're terrorists. If you're really gonna do awful things to them, then just kill them quickly.

Firstly, it's not an off-chance, at least not with some of them.  The ones who are proclaiming that they are looking forward to being executed as martyrs, also sending them to "Heaven" and being rewarded by Allah for their roll in 9/11, do not deserve to die the way that they want.  Why reward them for killing thousands of innocent Americans?  Let them die knowing that they committed a sin in their religion and will be denied their virgins.
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Offline allstarsniper32

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #42 on: January 27, 2009, 08:39:40 am »
No, I like him, at least more than Obama; plus, McCain has a very good reason for his opposition to torture.  However, those guys have it coming!  Have their lasts miserable seconds of life be filled with horror.  They did all of this because they feel it was Allah's will; I say we deny them that.

People do a lot of stupid thing for their own god/gods. Crusade anyone? ISLAMMMMMMM!!!!!! (yeah that was kinda on Jon Stewert one time).

Offline jaybug

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #43 on: January 27, 2009, 05:27:15 pm »
Start feeding them BLT sandwiches! Pork at every meal! Yee-Haw! Let them play American football, with old footballs, as they use cowhide nowadays.

Air mail them to the country of their choice, just drop them off, literally! From 30,000 feet. I hear one guy has survived from 39,000; and that was by accident. So you know, they might live.

The biggest problem we face is trying to be nice guys for Europe and Russia and China. We need to be more Romanesque, or biblical even. oh well. I hope you have been purchasing fire arms.
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Offline Prinz Eugen

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #44 on: January 28, 2009, 04:25:31 am »
Quote from: jaybug
We need to be more Romanesque, or biblical even. oh well. I hope you have been purchasing firearms.
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(There! A reference to Rome and firearms!) Also, already stocked up on ammo before prices got *way* silly.

BY THE WAY, just hit a GOLDEN NUGGET of Obama abuse in "To Aru Majutsu no Index," ep. 15.

The set up begins 14min 38sec. There's a few minutes of the loli-crud ahead of it, so feel free to skip ahead and start there.

Hilarious!

Offline jaybug

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #45 on: January 28, 2009, 04:25:08 pm »
Could this be the test? Iran's Ahmedinijhad wants an apology from Obama. I can only hope our president faxes him a picture of his backside. And the phrase Besame Mucho written on it in bacon grease.
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Offline Prinz Eugen

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #46 on: March 20, 2009, 10:43:57 am »
Gawd, what a CIRCUS!

The Annointed One gifts the UK Prime Minister with Walmart DVDs - that don't even PLAY in England (NTSC vs PAL, anyone?!?) then mispells - what - THREE other nations' leaders in a week? Way to Go!

BTW if you want to see the Inaugural Parade, you can rent 'Idiocracy' and see it about 2/3 of the way through.

It'd be funny if the clueless idiot** wasn't tanking our economy with "Wishes and Hope" that don't work in Real Life. Anyone remember Prez. Carter, and 18.4% inflation in 1978-79? Guess not, most of Mr Messiah's voters hadn't even been born then...

But wait, there's more:

The Obama White House has closed the press award ceremony to the press.

Is this a JOKE administration yet, or what?

(** btw I have labeled the previous occupant 'Puddin-head' a number of times too, so fair is fair.)
« Last Edit: March 20, 2009, 10:46:30 am by Prinz Eugen »

Offline jaybug

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #47 on: March 22, 2009, 02:17:27 pm »
puddin head, isn't that what Harley Quinn called the Joker? lol

Just wait until he gets his feet under him! oh boy
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Offline Blackstar

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #48 on: March 22, 2009, 02:35:50 pm »
NOTE TO ALL OLD FARTS IN THE K-CON FORUM Jaybug and Prinz Eugen
STOP BEING BITTER. NO ONE CARES

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Offline jaybug

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #49 on: March 22, 2009, 02:41:01 pm »
Except the people who vote.

Note to Blackstar, learn to differentiate between bitterness and sarcasm, cynicism.

And...after 8 years of whining and whatnot from one side, don't you think it's fair for the other sides to have their fun at back-biting, and whatever? Or are you one of those, I get to make fun at others expense, but that can't do that to me types?
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Offline K-Rock-InC

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #50 on: March 22, 2009, 02:46:07 pm »
all I have to say is Obama can **** up all he wants.
I really don't give a damn anymore.
Cuz he's not Bush.
So I'm okay.
=D
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Offline jaybug

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #51 on: March 22, 2009, 04:14:41 pm »
He can blame it all on Joe Biden, like W. could with Cheney?
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Offline K-Rock-InC

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #52 on: March 22, 2009, 04:58:53 pm »
Eeewww. I don't like that plan. That makes him like Bush.
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Offline DancingTofu

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #53 on: March 23, 2009, 01:19:25 am »
I'm a strong advocate of political independence.  Classifications and generalisations should not shape political views.  I'll admit--the strong, close-minded political opinions I've observed many of you expressing has greatly diminished my respect for those people.  To discuss economical trends, the fallacies of a particular political platform, the inevitable worthlessness of a bi-partisan republic (democracies are social impossible to maintain, and inevitably become dictatorships or republics--this happened to the U.S. before it even became independent of England.), et cetera, is admirable and respectable.  Exploiting and targeting arbitrary, vague, personal issues of major politicians, simply to express distaste, makes you look immature, judgmental, and unfriendly.

As it is, this topic is well on it's way towards getting locked.  I don't see any benefit anyone can possibly attain from the discussions (which are really just assertions) that I'm seeing right now.
moderators gonna moderate </shrug>

Offline Prinz Eugen

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #54 on: March 23, 2009, 07:30:06 am »
Quote
I don't see any benefit anyone can possibly attain
What about entertainment as a benefit? As for value, here in the 'Off-topic' zone, wouldn't even zero-value topics still remain permissible? Certainly no different than posting what I had for dinner last night in the "Say Almost anything we want to" thread.
If you're worried about JB or me having been called names, don't worry about that - personally I've got thicker skin than that, and I'd like to say that JB does too.

If personal, member-focused name-calling continues to be a problem here, I certainly appreciate your discretion and discernment as a forum mod. That's not what this thread is about. It's about the continuing consequences of the outcome of the last election: positive, negative, outrageous, and even SILLY stuff too.

But nevertheless also including the sentiment: "We TOLD you stuff like this would happen..." as the Dow blows off another 10%. Is that a valuable critique of the actions of the current administration?
I'd say: YES. IT. IS.

We're swapping news stories and opinions for entertainment and perhaps a degree of commiseration. The next question is, can entertainment alone be of value? (even though I've posited an example that maybe value isn't necessary...)?

I'd say yes again. Look at how much slapstick comedy happens in anime for example, and hordes of folks find that entertaining. President Ford happened to be a klutz at times, but the press of the day ate that up whenever they could show him trip or mis-speak. Look at all the crap Sarah Palin has had to put up with in her private family life.

Jaybug makes an excellent point here:
Quote
...after 8 years of whining and whatnot from one side, don't you think it's fair for the other sides to have their fun at back-biting, and whatever? Or are you one of those, I get to make fun at others expense, but that can't do that to me types?
That said, most of what I've been posting has been a 'consistency check' - exactly what JB mentions - we've seen 8 years of sauce for the goose, so what's wrong with some sauce for the gander for a while? The effect of the 'consistency check' is a test: if people are upset with lampooning the current White House occupant, then where were they when jokes of the same degree of lameness were made about G. Bush?

So - MY TURN: I found this news story HILARIOUS, and I'd like to SHARE IT, okay?
Does this make me unfriendly?
« Last Edit: March 23, 2009, 08:59:20 am by Prinz Eugen »

Offline melchizedek

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #55 on: March 23, 2009, 11:47:43 am »
I think tofu was talking about people making pot shots at Obama.  Which seems odd to me as many many threads had slights towards bush, even this one. 

Does anyone watch the daily show?  This country is all about freedom on the press even if it's just poking fun.  However, think insulting other forum members is a violation of TOU.
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Offline Prinz Eugen

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #56 on: March 23, 2009, 01:08:26 pm »
Quote from: melchizedek
Does anyone watch the daily show?
What's scary is that there's a significant slice of viewers that watch it like it was as 'real' as The NBC Nightly News.

Quote
This country is all about freedom on the press even if it's just poking fun.
Heck, the 1st Amendment covers EVERYONE, not just 'the press.' That's you and me getting to air any opinions on any topic anywhere at anytime.

Like, for example,
{a} The market is up, and
{b} Obama's numbers are down.

Coincidence? Who knows - but in any case {a} and {b} taken separately or together, represent "Good News" to me, and I feel confident in sharing my positive emotions with everyone. :-)
Other folks are certainly free to disagree, or say, 'Darn, I wish more people liked Obama.'

Quote
However, insulting other forum members is a violation of TOU.
I think we all are aware of and agree on that, and it seems that most folks aren't picking on individual forum members.

Offline reppy

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #57 on: March 23, 2009, 02:06:20 pm »
I'm so sick of everyone (Democrat and Repbulican) acting like the stock market is a barometer for how the entire country is going.  Any time a company lays off a ton of employees their stock goes up.  How is that good for America?  It isn't.  But it's good for investors because now it means that more people are competing for the same jobs and will accept lower wages.

I've probably criticized Obama more than anyone I know.  In fact, I didn't vote for him.  Course, I didn't vote for McCain either.  (Does anyone really think we'd be better off?)  Much of my reasoning is because I predicted what his moves would be in the future.  Moves that I was right about and have criticized heavily.  But lets wait more than 3 months before we conclude he's already ruined this country irreparably, k?  He walked into one hell of a cluster.

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #58 on: March 23, 2009, 02:11:14 pm »
NOTE TO ALL OLD FARTS IN THE K-CON FORUM Jaybug and Prinz Eugen
STOP BEING BITTER. NO ONE CARES


Blackstar....thats inapropriate. They obviously enjoy discussing this subject. They have just as much right to be sarcastic and voice thier oppinion too. And I never heard them say something bad to you....
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Offline Prinz Eugen

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #59 on: March 23, 2009, 02:42:59 pm »
Quote from: reppy
I'm so sick of everyone [...] acting like the stock market is a barometer for how the entire country is going.  Any time a company lays off a ton of employees their stock goes up.  How is that good for America?
The price of a share of stock is essentially ... an opinion. This is why a company can do the same thing today that they did yesterday, and the stock bounces from $2.25 to $12 to $5 in an afternoon - because, say, a bunch of day traders discovered this neat little company and they're out there touting it and shorting it and touting it again. This actually happened at a company I worked at.
The SEC even called our CEO: "What the hell are you guys doing?!?"
Ans: "We make and sell CONNECTORS - I don't know what's going on either!!" answered our CEO.
It was day-traders being silly.

But sometimes the cart gets before the horse: Say if your company invests some of its working capital in stocks because bank interest generally sucks. This is a risky move, because if the stock the company chooses for its OWN value slip - then YOUR company loses money and then they have to chop headcount - all through no fault of your own - because a bunch of people's OPINIONS about several other companies nosedive - and YOU get the ax. (Just happened to me last month, btw...)

Typically what happens when a company lays off people AND the stock rises, it's because the company is signalling that they've figured out a better, more efficient way to do their stuff - with fewer people. This could be a restaurant laying off three of their four dishwasher guys because they made enough money to go out and buy** a commercial-sized dish washing machine - and now they need only one dishwasher guy. If you OWN a piece of that restaurant, you will be expecting better profits, assuming all other factors are equal, meal sales, etc. Money coming in is the same, number of dishes washed is the same, the dishes all come out just as clean or better - and now payroll and health care costs are down. Money coming is is same, money going out is less: that looks like a recipe for improved profits, and so your expectation of the money you have tied up in that restaurant is that they should be making you more money soon. And so the stock price goes up when they lay people off - AS LONG AS the expectations include increased efficiency.

Now ... whether or not those signals are TRUE ... that's a different kettle of fish, dealing with how honest the publicity folks are at the company - or are there a bunch of stockholders on the company board who are edging close enough to retirement that they want to up-spike the stock and cash out at the top before it bounces back to its normal range (example: Enron.)

(** If they buy the machine on CREDIT, that can be an increased risk...)
 
« Last Edit: March 23, 2009, 02:48:08 pm by Prinz Eugen »

Offline jaybug

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #60 on: March 23, 2009, 05:56:36 pm »
I saw the whole economy as too much money chasing after too few investments. So what happened was money was trying to find the "next big thing" and who cares what it is, as long as we can get a ridiculous rate of return. This is why the price of everything went up so high, where the fundamentals did not show any hint of inflation. Which led to all kind of economic bubbles, and bursts. Just that when Lehman needed a bailout, because people were using it as a bank, but it was not FDIC insured, and the governemnt said no...bust. Lehman was being a hedge fund, which contrary to nomenclature did not hedge against inflation, but had bought too many implausible securities, now known as "toxic assets" with no money to cover for any eventual loss. See Paul Krugman's Return To Depression Economics. http://www.amazon.com/Return-Depression-Economics-Crisis-2008/dp/0393071014/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1237855569&sr=8-1
He may be a self-confessed liberal, but he is an Economist, there doesn't seem to be that much difference as far as the outside real world is concerned, from left and right. We're talking money here people. Money chooses no sides.

Anyway, this just gives me to think that people need more control over their investments such as their 401(k)s. Just allowing mutual fund managers, who are only in it for the rise in share price, and who could care lless about how sound the company is, or if it retains employees, as long as the stock price goes up. Imagine being in a union, and saving for retirement, and the money you invest goes toward company XYZ laying off thousands of workers, to please Wall Street, and you work for XYZ, and you get laid off. Great your retirement portfolio is up, but you need a job.

Basically we had too many people thinking they could get credit card rates of return, for no risk, for the long term. It isn't going to happen, except in drug induced dreams.

I told my mother last Autumn, that this period would be remembered as the Lesser Depression, and so far no one has called it that, but we are functioning in depression era economics, banks fail, and the ones remaining are afraid to lend, which causes more job losses, etc. perpetuating the downward cycle.

The only thing that will stop this, is Americans having faith, blind absolute faith that things are going to get better. No amount of money will stop it otherwise, as people will be afraid that this is just good money after bad being thrown about.

But now we have AIG executives trying to throw their weight, and people are listening to them, instead of telling them to have a nice cup of shut the $%$# up!
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Offline melchizedek

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #61 on: March 23, 2009, 09:27:21 pm »
I know Obama isn't God, so he can't control the stocks.  Yes, some things he does affect them, short term and long term but really a great deal of things are out of his hands.  Seriously, I think it's better this way.  Lots of the more risky investment was done with investors just assuming the government would bail them out if things went toxic. 

I'd just as soon the government focus on protecting us and not pretend that they can keep some from sleeping in the bed they already made for themselves.
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Offline jaybug

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #62 on: March 23, 2009, 09:34:03 pm »
Protect us from ourselves, or from enemies foreign and domestic? I'm with ya brother, just had to give a little poke is all.

Semantics, aren't they amazing? Annoying? Anything you want them to be? lol
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Offline K-Rock-InC

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #63 on: March 23, 2009, 10:01:11 pm »
Wooow... There were some really big paragraphs there... I'd read them. REALLY I would. I mean, I enjoy having political debates in my government class with my classmates and my teacher... But it's late... and reading takes energy... So I'm going to consent to the fact that you all probably make logical points, but that my opinion still stands that Nixon could go back in office as long as he didn't act like Bush.

(I still hold the conspirator-ist opinion that the Paris Hilton brainless act was all a ploy to divert our attention away from his secret underground laboratory under the White House to study the affects of bringing back the dead --AKA HITLER-- and mind control via hairstyles whose finds will inevitably bring about the end of the world --AKA 2012-- in a mass of mullet-wearing Communist zombies led by Bush and Zombie!Hitler. But that's just me.)
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Offline jaybug

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #64 on: March 23, 2009, 10:27:00 pm »
Girl, they'd clone Reagan in a heartbeat before Bush. Bush is a liberal to them now. He isn't good enough.  And Hitler was a socialist! This is why socialism scares the bejeezus out of conservatives, you get Hitlers and Stalins that way. No way in hell they'd clone him. Genghis Khan yes, Hitler no.

Heck they probably think Ferengis are the bomb!
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Offline DancingTofu

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #65 on: March 24, 2009, 12:39:01 am »
Hitler was a totalitarian who took advantage of a socialist external image.  Same thing with Stalin.  Socialism causes things like Canada.  Communism--especially Marxism--creates a weak political infrastructure, which allows a dictator to initiate a scapegoat-based totalitarian isolationism, like North Korea.

My concern isn't that people have a problem with Obama--he's not the great hero that some people try to think he is.  If he's smart and sets himself up with plenty of savvy, unbiased advisory staff, he'll have a strong administration.  Otherwise, he'll be stumbling through the job getting very little done and misrepresenting the greater interests of the American people.  I'd challenge anyone to formulate a strong argument against that, but that's not really my point.

My point is that some people can be strongly influenced.  Others can be easily offended.  Politics and religion in particular can be very reactive subjects for people.  I don't like seeing people throw away friendships and a sense of community just so they can poke at the flawed political platforms that others swear by.


Basically, here's what's wrong with political platforms:
They're like laptops.
A laptop is a tightly packaged, convenient system which will SLOWLY CRIPPLE AND DESTROY YOUR SOUL.
Like a political platform, a laptop that is modern, appealing, and effective now will be worthless in 3 or 4 years.  Like mobile computer technology, political issues change rapidly and somewhat unpredictably.  So trying to stick to a static political system faithfully is never going to work.  That's why I refuse to ever vote for someone who represents a political platform.  It gets them a large following of vultures, idiots, and fools, but it doesn't generate a strong future for our nation, or our world.  One day, I hope that the American people will be willing to recognize that static solutions are never going to last--only a malleable, intuitive administration will be capable of properly addressing the issues of today and the issues of tomorrow.
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Offline Prinz Eugen

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #66 on: March 24, 2009, 05:50:52 am »
Great stuff, DT! Especially:
Quote
They're like laptops.
A laptop is a tightly packaged, convenient system which will SLOWLY CRIPPLE AND DESTROY YOUR SOUL. Like a political platform, a laptop that is modern, appealing, and effective now will be worthless in 3 or 4 years.  Like mobile computer technology, political issues change rapidly and somewhat unpredictably.  So trying to stick to a static political system faithfully is never going to work.  That's why I refuse to ever vote for someone who represents a political platform.  It gets them a large following of vultures, idiots, and fools, but it doesn't generate a strong future for our nation, or our world.  One day, I hope that the American people will be willing to recognize that static solutions are never going to last--only a malleable, intuitive administration will be capable of properly addressing the issues of today and the issues of tomorrow.

But... (repeat quote)
Quote
I hope that the American people will be willing to recognize that static solutions are never going to last
This part may be a hard sell, especially where, what, more than 80% of Americans consider themselves religious, and a large swath of that is some form of Christianity.

I think there are a number of religious and cultural attitudes that don't click well with the notion of endless change.** One soundbyte for example, is the phrase 'Git 'er done' - very popular with people whose jobs involve construction or heavy repairs. One of my own personal mottos is that 'A job done right stays done.' If I get a call at my desk after the fact, it's because Part 'A' doesn't fit to Part 'B,' and essentially I made a mistake, or something went wrong on the shop floor that I didn't envision in my head. But if I don't get that call, it's because I did everything right.

People who design and build highways and bridges feel in their labor the notion that, with every individual act - if it is done correctly, then this will be the LAST time it needs to be done - for a lifetime or more. Like welding steel girders together. That sense of finality can be a source of great on-the-job pride.

Many people believe, or feel in their hearts that an ideal, utopian society is indeed static - once this last shopping list of problems is SOLVED then we're DONE. Conversely, an administration that is constantly fiddling with things appears incompetent. Same goes for one company that goes through re-orgs every other year, versus a second company that doesn't. The second company seems to me to have better management - they have a structure that works for today's conditions and the conditions of a few years ago.

As a mechanical engineer, I'm kind of like that myself - change is good and necessary when it is fixing a problem. But I also believe that the more intelligent solution is a system that, when properly adjusted (once!) runs without further constant twiddling. If so, someone needs to invent the Twiddle Detector Overlay Device, which does the twiddling for you. If you invent that device ingeniously, then the system runs itself and you can go back to watching anime and reading manga.

(**Even without selecting a specific religion, the notion of God as a perfect being includes being forever unchanging. Simple reasoning: If God changes, then you get two problems: One, you can define initial State A and then changed State B, and only one of them can be perfect. Any difference between A and B will admit debate over which configuration is better, and also the notion of a third State C which can do or be everything that A and B can - eliminating the need for change in an ideal world.)

PS: I think for 'malleable' you meant a word like 'flexible' or 'agile' - malleable (L. malleus = hammer) means easy for someone ELSE to smush - or 'putty-like' - my biggest criticism of GWB.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 06:05:45 am by Prinz Eugen »

Offline jaybug

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #67 on: March 24, 2009, 06:53:47 pm »
Canada is socialism lite. France is socialist as defined in their constitution. If France needs it, it is taken. Just add bureaucrats.

I do hope that you do vote Charles. Otherwise...you get what you pay for, ya know?

This is why I try real hard not to vote for lawyers, of any persuasion. They know the cost of everything, and the value of nothing. Or is that the Wall Street executive outlook? Ceterus parabum....sigh.

@ Prinz, that's what people expect you built a bridge in 1922, of which there are many in Oregon, and you never think you have to pay for anything more, like a new bridge, they are immortal in salt air, right? We need more freeways, but we can't get the potholes fixed on the ones we have. Oh well, it's the bicyclists fault for not paying any taxes. and so on. Maybe we should quit paving roads and go back to gravel, or macadam and such like the Via Appia towards Rome.

I think we have reached the end point on money, more or less. China now wants to go to something else besides the US dollar, and they don't want to buy more of our Treasury securities. What we have is all we have. There is no more. So what do we want to buy with what we have? Health care? Okay, what goes? Military, yeah right it goes. Or maybe you just want us to have more dead coming back from every future conflict we enter, and don't think it will be all peace and love forever. Space program, nice patent response, but how do you think we got so technically advanced to begin with? Oops there's that laptop thing rearing its' ugly head again. Or disposable diapers, those are a product of the space race. Flick your Bic too, thanks to NASA.

Best I can think of we do is to reduce the number of bureaucrats, and replace them with inspectors, and someone who is authorized to make decisions, and stop with the "we can't do that" stuff.
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Offline melchizedek

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #68 on: March 24, 2009, 07:03:11 pm »
http://vimeo.com/3261363

here is something that I think everyone should watch.

In my opinion, government needs to be slashed to a much leaner machine.  People will be greedy by default and try to take advantage of whatever they can get.  There needs to be a line and consequences for crossing that line.  More and more we've seen laws skirted and big government bailing out instead of enforcing. 

I'm not talking dems vs reps-- they both want to prop up private business that the invisible hand of the free market has deemed fail.  Bush gave a 14 billion bailout to auto makers.  Obama was right there with him saying it was needed.  I didn't think it was needed.  How are we supposed to vote if both parties are the same thing. 

Reminds me of the RATM video, testify---- "Unleash the mutant!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JSBhI_0at0
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 07:15:07 pm by melchizedek »
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Offline reppy

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #69 on: March 24, 2009, 09:41:11 pm »
Typically what happens when a company lays off people AND the stock rises, it's because the company is signalling that they've figured out a better, more efficient way to do their stuff - with fewer people. This could be a restaurant laying off three of their four dishwasher guys because they made enough money to go out and buy** a commercial-sized dish washing machine - and now they need only one dishwasher guy. If you OWN a piece of that restaurant, you will be expecting better profits, assuming all other factors are equal, meal sales, etc. Money coming in is the same, number of dishes washed is the same, the dishes all come out just as clean or better - and now payroll and health care costs are down. Money coming is is same, money going out is less: that looks like a recipe for improved profits, and so your expectation of the money you have tied up in that restaurant is that they should be making you more money soon. And so the stock price goes up when they lay people off - AS LONG AS the expectations include increased efficiency

Your point is well taken and very thoughtful, so thank you.  I may have sounded a little irritated in my post.  Haste does that sometimes. :)  Anyways, while your example is well taken it kind of assumes the motives of the business in question are pure.  Like, sure, finding a way to slash work force because of some new breakthrough in technology or what have you.  But lets compare that situation vs a billion dollar corporation that closed all its factories in the US and moved them overseas where labor laws are much more lax.  Do you think the stock will rise or fall?  Investors that just want to make a buck and have no ethical qualms about exploited labor will be all over that.  And there's lots of them.  This is what I mean when I say stocks, especially on a day-to-day basis, don't really tell the whole picture.  I'm more interested in things like: is the gap between the rich and poor growing? How many people can afford higher education? What's the infant mortality rate?  To me, these are things that signal a strong country .. not the stock market.  Can we have those statistics going across the bottom of every single newscast on the hour?  :)
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 09:44:57 pm by reppy »

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Offline jaybug

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #70 on: March 24, 2009, 10:17:22 pm »
Look at stock prices, bond prices, commodities prices, and just watch the money flowing back and forth, looking for a quick buck.

I wish I could vote my retirement account's shares, as if I owned a particular stock. Not that I could do much, but at least I get to vote my conscience, instead of merely hanging on for the ride.
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Offline DancingTofu

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #71 on: March 25, 2009, 02:34:25 am »
I was still 17 as of the last election, but I'm 18 now and plan on doing as much research and discussion as I can before I vote on anything.  If there's one important thing I learned in high school, it's that you should always read the text (and I mean read it; don't just skim it) of every bill you vote on, and discuss expenses, benefits, motives, and practicality with as many people as possible.  My position with elected officials is very similar--as with charities.  If someone stops me on a street corner to tell me about some non-profit organization they work for, I'll listen closely and strongly consider they're argument, then I'll make note of it, go home, and find out more.  No matter how good and charitable an organization is, I'm not going to donate to it if it's sloppy.  Likewise, a politician who's looking to fix America's problems has my support in principle, but will have to present a strong history as a proponent of public education, post-secondary educational funding, sustainable economic policies, and straightforward diplomacy, to name a few.  Additionally, a candidate looking to earn my vote must demonstrate a realistic and intelligent representation of the needs of our nation.

What it comes down to is this: Our voting system was set up by a bunch of sloppy English rebels, and has changed very little since its formation.  It needs to go.  Elections should allow people to vote either "yea", "nay", or "abstain" on EACH candidate individually.  The reason this system will never happen is because it would immensely empower Independants, Greenies, and other third parties, and destroy the bi-partisan system in place.  Effectively, it would destroy the Oligarchy that runs America.


I definitely understand the notion of fixing something just once.  Long-term solutions are better than short-term solutions.  That's just common sense.  For instance, repaving highways once every two years would be far more effective and convenient than filling potholes every few weeks (this is actually the situation on HWY 213--it's obnoxious).  The problem with that approach in politics is that we aren't finding long-term solutions by supporting political platforms--we're dodging issues and letting them pop back up.  Imagine this situation:

A man on a boat notices that he's taking in water at approximately 1 gallon per hour.  He takes a 5 gallon bucket and empties most of the water from the boat, then goes about his business.
Later, he notices that he is taking in 10 gallons of water per hour.  He uses the same method to amend the problem.
The problem continues to expand, later taking in 100 gallons per hour, then 1000.  The man drowns.

This is pretty much the situation with American politics right now.  Our boat is leaking, and if someone doesn't pull the boat ashore and FIX THE FREAKIN' HOLE, we're going to sink.
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Offline Prinz Eugen

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Re: Obama is Prez - Fun New Bumper Stickers
« Reply #72 on: March 25, 2009, 06:43:32 am »




Offline melchizedek

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #73 on: March 25, 2009, 03:58:31 pm »
Tofu has a good point.  Our system is set up to structurally put 3rd parties at a disadvantage.  When I took political science waay back in the day, the prof talked about how (michigan? maybe) ballots had two votes.  So people could pick their two favorite candidates.   So suppose someone liked the dem, and the green party both could get their vote.  Instead of "well I like green but I know I'd be throwing away my vote if I didn't vote dem"

I've never heard anyone but PS prof talk about this though.
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Offline Prinz Eugen

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #74 on: March 25, 2009, 04:52:40 pm »
Good points by mel & D-Tofu.

I too, voted 3rd party a lot recently, because generally I vote based on my opinions of the ballot measures, issues, and questions at hand first - rarely just on personality, but more often on past records and statements.

The 'immovable object' in this case might be that in order to officially change the way votes are counted or administered I think all the states have to agree to a Constitutional Convention - an even unlikely to happen in any of our lifetimes, imho. You might need a successful foreign incursion, a generally recognized collapse of the Federal system, and the rise of a new confederacy (no I don't mean Civil War or slavery, I just mean 'a bunch of states') - or there may even be several confederacies on the continent - but something like THAT - or even a second kind of or general internecine war or social breakdown. Again, extremely unlikely, imho.

O-S-ama (not O-bambi)  might have been able to pull it off had he selected targets which really fundementally and culturally divided the USA on 9-11, rather than emotionally unifying us. (I don't know what those targets might have been, but that's a whole 'nuther discussion of conjecture / alternate history.)

Several club use a 'preferential voting' system where if [n] candidates are running, each voter gets (n-1)! points to allocate for each candidate. But this requires math, which we don't teach in school anymore because it exposes which students are smart, which are normal, and which might be functionally incompetent and don't belong in 'normal' school, or illegal aliens who don't speak our nation's language. (...not that I have any strong opinions about any of this, no...)

Essentially the ballot says that if 5 people run, you RANK them so your favorite  candidate that gets 4 points, the one that gets 3, then 2 then one and that last guy, who you CAN'T STAND, who gets ZERO. The person with the TOTAL number of points overall WINS.

What might be easier is to say that since 1 + 1 - 1 = 1, then if everyone gets ONE vote you get two positive and one negative vote, So with five candidate, if you don't really care but THIS ONE you really like, then you award +2, ignore the other three, and then you get to nail one guy with a [-1.]

This also allows you to award one point each to two reasonable candidates, (and still THWAP that one guy.)

Lastly, (And I may have mentioned this before, but up through the 1840s the election WINNER became the next president and the OTHER PARTY's candidate became the Vice President; sounds like this might have FORCED both sides to work TOGETHER...







« Last Edit: March 25, 2009, 04:54:51 pm by Prinz Eugen »

Offline jaybug

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #75 on: March 25, 2009, 05:21:37 pm »
@ P.E. #2 get V.P. role: yeah, and the veep also more directly ran the senate, as its' president, he got to call on whom would speak. Much more power until Cheney came along.

The best campaign finance reform is to thoughtfully cast ones ballot, and to have most potential voters, vote. That way no matter how much money was thrown, the one whom people thought of as best would win.

Also, we need politicians who will do things that may endanger their re-election. We need them to do more than sweep things under the rug, and to have lobbyists tell them what to do, and stop having lobbyists write the bills that the politicians never read!

I can't remember ever seeing such slip-shod actions done by Washington. "Pass this or America ends!" B.S.
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Offline DancingTofu

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #76 on: March 25, 2009, 05:47:15 pm »
Yeah.  I'm hoping that Obama's apparently haphazard administration will be the one that turns around, does something that all the investors, politicians, and CEO's will be completely opposed to, and actually help the 96% majority that's suffering right now.  If our invasion of Iraq and our efforts against terrorists had been taken seriously, and aimed at PREVENTING a third major World War, rather than funding corrupt foreign businesses owned by shady US politicians, I think that would have accomplished a very profound effect in regards to how major issues are addressed by politicians.

Something that really distressed me was when I was reading some responses to a testimony by David Wu.  He took the idea that we keep putting Vulcans in the White House and ran with it, concluding that we don't have Vulcans in the WH, because the REAL Vulcans don't act without a motive, so the politicians we're putting in the White House are more like Klingons, and so forth.  He makes a perfectly legitimate analogy with a perfectly acceptable amount of Pop Culture comedy, and all the responses are super negative, criticizing him...for what?  For phrasing the situation so that it's darkly humourous?  Making it so that the average American actually understands what he's saying?  Nope--they were criticizing him for being different.  Apparently, all senators are supposed to be exactly the same, have no sense of humour or culture, and never make analogies, because those would make them...uh...human?  I sure don't want humans making my laws!
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Offline jaybug

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #77 on: March 25, 2009, 07:25:31 pm »
We had Klingons, now we have Romulans. Note the sense of humor as shown on 60 minutes. BUt I'll stick with what I said earlier, we had Ferengi.

I was listening o the radio today about how Phil Gramm slipped into an 11,000 page omnibus spending bill back in 2000, what led to the unregulation of the derivitives industry, ( say AIG, Lehman, etc.) CLinton signed it, I guess no one read that one either. It may have been NPR today, but Bob Brinker's Money Talk radio program said the same thing earlier, I just wasn't able to listen to all of it then.

I guess best practices would indicate that the individual would be most prudent to maintain a defensive stance as regards anything involving government. Save as much cash as you can, because it will either be taxed to a pittance, swallowed by corporate/speculative greed, or spent on lawyers and/or health insurance costs.

Fully fund Roth IRAs before anything else, like food and rent. Gawd that sucks, but it beats retiring after you are dead, as Social Security will not pay probably until you become age 72 or older. And then less than 1/3 of your estimated needs.
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Offline melchizedek

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #78 on: March 25, 2009, 11:50:45 pm »
David Wu is a congressman not a senetor.  FYI

I met him once and wasn't a big fan.  He made some anti religious comments that ruffled my feathers.

Anyway, we'll see how things pan out.  Wiki's say that changes to monitary system made another depression impossible.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2009, 11:51:04 pm by melchizedek »
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Offline DancingTofu

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #79 on: March 26, 2009, 12:02:40 am »
You know, it's absurd that it costs us privileged, 1st-world folks a hundred times more to "survive" than what it costs to make a 3rd-world family comfortable.  It just goes to show how arbitrary value is--the only thing that's anywhere near balanced is life itself, and even that's worth a lot less in some places and a lot more in others.

I was thinking about it the other day.  Living on my personal bare minimums, it would cost me about $2400-$3600 a year to live.  For me to live comfortably but minimalistically would cost about twice that.  What does that money even mean?  It means less than it did a week ago, and that's what concerns me.  The economy is about making numbers bigger, and I haven't heard of anything anyone has come up with to fix it.  It seems like the problems always come back to a minority having control over a majority.  the .25% of the population that determines what things are worth is able to bend everything ridiculously and unnecessarily, milking arbitrary value out of arbitrary value.  We shouldn't look at a TV and think "that's worth $500 dollars."  Instead, the wise consumer's attitude should be, "that's worth 100 loaves of bread."


Regarding Cong/Sen: D'OH!  Goes to show how uninterested I am in electing people I don't know to tell me what I want.
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Offline Prinz Eugen

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #80 on: March 27, 2009, 08:05:14 pm »
Quote
Fully fund Roth IRAs before anything else, like food and rent. Gawd that sucks, but it beats retiring after you are dead, as Social Security will not pay probably until you become age 72 or older. And then less than 1/3 of your estimated needs.
I'm fearing they'll go after ANY tax-deferred savings sooner or later. Remember, socialists believe that if you save your own money while some idiots across the tracks don't, then when it's time for you all to retire, why, you need to share. That's what Obama's words redistributive change mean, and how Joe the Plumber caught Obambi with his pants down by springing those deliciously inconvenient questions about motivation, capitalism, and self-created wealth.

I suggest making sure that a significant portion of any savings portfolio is in AFTER-tax dollars, those are a LOT harder to confiscate and redistribute.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2009, 08:06:28 pm by Prinz Eugen »

Offline jaybug

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #81 on: March 29, 2009, 11:43:27 am »
GOLD! Get your where I get mine, at Roslan Capital! lol Do you get your financial advice from convicted felons?

@Tofu, does that include any form of housing costs? My motgage alone is $1,100 per month.

Here's what bugs me. I live within two blocks of a railroad, but there is no way that these clown in charge will allow for commuter rail service, not when they can cut down trees, and put in place something that costs multi-millions. The type of projects that you never really hear the actual cost announced. And they are cutting service when it is needed most! I could understand that were it a private enterprise, but not if it is government funded.

So I guess even if I had the option of commuter rail, I could get to work, but could not get home. Just like when I lived withing 20 minutes walk from here too. 10 minutes to drive 20 minutes to walk and at least 40 minutes to take public mass transit, which would still have had me walking 10 minutes from the nearest stop.

I really believe we have everything we need to have things make sense, but we have so many middle men, and so many bureaucrats that say "I need more money from you", and "we can't do that." Then we have lawyers who solely try to run everything, they know the cost of everything, but have no clue as to the value of anything. Only they are worth anything you see. And so they go forth to do their hired gun thing, and shoot up everyone who stands in their way.

Oh, I heard an interesting thing on Bill Wattenberg's radio show a few weekends ago. Those hired gun attorneys, say for the Sierra Club, well the bring forth a suit, take it to a reliable judge ( in their view), and get even one part agreed to by that judge, they get paid all the attorney fees, so it doesn't cost them anything, in fact they make money by suing others. And meanwhile they do incredible damage to our ability to get anything done. What a racket as they say.
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Offline reppy

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #82 on: March 31, 2009, 12:16:00 pm »
Quote
Fully fund Roth IRAs before anything else, like food and rent. Gawd that sucks, but it beats retiring after you are dead, as Social Security will not pay probably until you become age 72 or older. And then less than 1/3 of your estimated needs.
I'm fearing they'll go after ANY tax-deferred savings sooner or later. Remember, socialists believe that if you save your own money while some idiots across the tracks don't, then when it's time for you all to retire, why, you need to share. That's what Obama's words redistributive change mean, and how Joe the Plumber caught Obambi with his pants down by springing those deliciously inconvenient questions about motivation, capitalism, and self-created wealth.

Your definition of socialism could use some re-defining.

And just a question.. do you consider Joe the Plumber to be serious in any way?  Every time I've heard him try to explain anything that goes beyond plumbing I cringe because he doesn't seem to have any understanding of facts.  He's like Sean Hannity, Jr.  "Socialism bad! Capitalism good! America good! Rah! Liberals are evil!"

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Offline jaybug

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #83 on: March 31, 2009, 05:24:21 pm »
Isn't a dictionary definition of, wait, let me OED this...
Socialism
 1. Freq. with capital initial. A theory or system of social organization based on state or collective ownership and regulation of the means of production, distribution, and exchange for the common benefit of all members of society; advocacy or practice of such a system, esp. as a political movement. Now also: any of various systems of liberal social democracy which retain a commitment to social justice and social reform, or feature some degree of state intervention in the running of the economy.
  The range of application of the term is broad. It is typically understood to involve the elevation of the social position and interests of the working class, esp. through redistribution of land or wealth, nationalization of industry and services, and the creation of workers' cooperatives. It is sometimes used synonymously with (esp. Soviet) Communism, although in some Marxist contexts it is used specifically to denote a transitional stage between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of Communism.
  African, champagne, democratic, market, state socialism, etc.: see the first element.

Communism
    1. A theory that advocates the abolition of private ownership, all property being vested in the community, and the organization of labour for the common benefit of all members; a system of social organization in which this theory is put into practice.

Capitalism
    The condition of possessing capital; the position of a capitalist; a system which favours the existence of capitalists.

I copied and pasted, as most forum goers do not have access to the Oxford English Dictionary  on-line.

Joe the Plumber, was a right-wing attempt at gotcha politics the left-leaning media has been doing for decades, I think.

I wonder if I will see a day when it is America that matters, and not the political parties themselves?
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Offline DancingTofu

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #84 on: March 31, 2009, 10:02:22 pm »
There you have it.  Socialism implies a necessary degree of Capitalism, while Capitalism and Communism are exclusive of one another.  I'm sick and tired of Liberals and I've never agreed with Conservatives.  They all whine about taxes, they all take advantage of the wonderful things those taxes pay for, and they all insist on making politics an issue of economics.  People are so caught up in the idea that socialists are bad people--an idea that hasn't ever had even a hint of reality to it.  The cold war was no more about communism than World War II was about the Jews.  Scapegoats.  That's all it is.  A ludicrous system of scapegoats, so that politicians could take advantage of how stupid and gullible the American people are.  It's propaganda and corruption at its finest.  And now, just to maintain this idealistic LIE that the U.S. is, has been, and always will be the latest and greatest, Politicians try to cover up the crap.  They still hide the fact that the USSR had not been Communist since 1919.  They still hide the fact that Cuba is a Socialism, perfectly willing to negotiate diplomatic resolutions with us.  They still hide the fact that China is more Capitalistic than the U.S. ever was.  They use fake connotations because stupid people want someone to blame for their problems. 

It's just as shallow and baseless as when Himmler (that's right, Himmler, not Hitler; Hitler was just another charismatic figurehead.  His most direct role was in his outlining of the "Aryan Master Race".) proposed the notion of blaming and prosecuting the Jews--who ran much of the financial establishments at the time--for Germany's failing economy in the 1920's, when in fact it was because of the unfair resolution of World War I which placed the entire weight of the post-war reconstruction on the shoulders of a destabilized Germany, suffering from high unemployment rates due to the war itself and outrageous inflation rates due to the incompetent post-war government.  Imagine if, just to blame someone for the Great Depression, the U.S. government had found some bold revolutionary in some war-ravaged country with a budding socialist republic and send MILLIONS OF AMERICANS TO DIE just so that they wouldn't have to admit that it was a mistake made by AMERICANS.  Pretty ridiculous, right?  Now imagine if they did it AGAIN.  Now imagine that they used tax-funded resources to train foreign Guerrillas to kill innocent citizens of the USSR in order to weaken concepts of Soviet Nationalism and "diminish communist" morale.  Sounds pretty horrible, right?  Those events would be the Korean War, the Vietnam War, and the training of terrorists in Arab nations that were, at the time, under U.S. supervision...especially in Afganistan and Iraq...the training of terrorists including Osama Bin Laden and many other al-Qaeda leaders.

By the way, "Soviet" is a Russian word meaning "Worker's Union."  I just figured I point that out to all you soviet scum.
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Offline jaybug

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #85 on: April 01, 2009, 04:33:30 pm »
I thought soviet meant deputy. huh. from the oed.com    1. a. In the U.S.S.R.: one of a number of elected councils which operate at all levels of government, having legislative and executive functions.

I won't disagree with most of what you said, except that Iraq was soviet, Iran was US during the cold war, up until the Shah's downfall. During the Iran/Iraq was in the 80s, when I was in the Persian Gulf as part of the US protecting American vessels, those two nations sunk 7 tankers the week's worth of time I was in there. I didn't see anything, but I was told we were overflown by an Iranian Lockheed P-3 sub hunter, and an Iraqi Mirage fighter. They didn't shoot us, we didn't shoot them, but man we were so on edge, we were really wishing we could, because it is the most difficult thing to be ready to shoot, and then to not.

I read in the Stars and Stripes newspaper, that Saddam was a bad man, and not one to be trusted, or become a friend. But that we were giving him intelligence of Iranian force locations, as we still had a mad on towards Iran, from the embassy hostage takings a few years earlier.

When I came back to the US after my west pac tours, I was amazed at how little any  of this information was being disseminated by US news carriers. So I really look at what the Stars and Stripes did for coverage, that wasn't covered back home.

It isn't so much what is in the news, as to what the news people decided was unimportant that bothers me. The New York Times motto used to be ALL THE NEWS THAT's FIT TO PRINT. Now I couldn't tell you what it should be, as it appears to be more agenda driven, than just news reporting, of all the news. Do you think people would trust the papers more if they were given all the news there is, instead of just a smattering of news?

Speaking of the Shah of Iran, we picked him, and Ferdinand Marcos of the Phillipines, because they were similar in appearance to John and Jackie Kennedy. Seriously, the thought was that the people would love them because they were young attractive couples. The criteria were: is the first couple attractive, and will they fight communism.

During WWII there was almost no heroin in the US. There had been some coming in during the 30s, more so than the 40s. The reason heroin picked up in the 50s was due to CIA policy agreement with the Mafia to fight communism. They would fight communism, we would look a bit away with their money gathering schemes of importing heroin to the US. See the book, the Politics of Heroin, subtitled CIA complicity in the Global Drug Trade. Only a few pages and words have been blacked out by CIA orders, but they allowed that through.

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Offline K-Rock-InC

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #86 on: April 01, 2009, 06:14:08 pm »
There's lots of smart-icle people here... Maybe someone can explain to me what a Dow Jones or whatever it's called is.

Off topic, but meh.
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Offline DancingTofu

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #87 on: April 01, 2009, 09:28:10 pm »
The Dow Jones industrial average is a simplification of the trade value of industrial stocks as a whole, designed to indicate general economic trends and changes so that investors can invest more wisely.


My bad on the Iraq/Iran thing. :P  I knew that one was being controlled by the USSR and the other by the US--guess I remembered the rest backwards. :P

Soviet or "sovet" in Russian (сове́т) literally means "council."  It was adopted by the Soviet Union as a term to represent a number of local-level government bodies later.
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Offline superjaz

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #88 on: April 01, 2009, 09:41:25 pm »
still when i see the title of this thread i see
obama liks pretz
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Offline DancingTofu

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #89 on: April 01, 2009, 09:55:45 pm »
I thought Bush was the one with the Pretzels?
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Offline jaybug

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #90 on: April 01, 2009, 10:31:22 pm »
http://www.dowjones.com/TheCompany/History/History.htm

The Dow Industrial Average, as reported nightly on every TV news in America, is a composite graph of 30 corporations stock value.

Dang I don't have enough time.

Stocks cost so much at any given time. Well take all the value of all the companies yuo are averaging, by stock prices, and you get a number. If it goes up, TV talking heads say Wall Street Went Up. Wheeee.

It's just as Tofu said, an overall picture.

@ Tofu, my ex-wife never taught me an awful lot it seems.
Also, I think it has been reported a lot by the media as you had previously stated. I don't think they do much ...whatever is proper to make creditable news. Like know their science or history, etc. etc.etc.
Or maybe it is just another attempt to blacken the eyes of the Bush administration. You see, if you keep telling a lie, it eventually becomes the truth. Umm, didn't Uncle Joe say that?
« Last Edit: April 01, 2009, 10:32:56 pm by jaybug »
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Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #91 on: April 01, 2009, 10:57:42 pm »
Hmm... I wonder...

...if I grilled President Obama, would he taste like salisbury steak, or would he be more like a t-bone steak?
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Offline DancingTofu

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #92 on: April 01, 2009, 11:15:11 pm »
Whenever people talk about grilling politicians, I think of waterboarding.  Weird.
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Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #93 on: April 01, 2009, 11:19:01 pm »
Hey!  That's a good idea!  While President Obama is vacationing in his birthstate of Hawai'i, I can be like a shark and eat him while he's waterboarding!
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Offline DancingTofu

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #94 on: April 01, 2009, 11:23:02 pm »
Waterboarding =/= surfing...
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Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #95 on: April 01, 2009, 11:23:55 pm »
 ???
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Offline DancingTofu

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #96 on: April 01, 2009, 11:25:01 pm »
It's a form of torture currently legal in the US.
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Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #97 on: April 01, 2009, 11:27:22 pm »
You mean the type where they drip water on your forehead or where they make you think you're drowning?

Either way, Obama will be a tasty meal.  It's just a matter of how to prepare him...
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Offline DancingTofu

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #98 on: April 01, 2009, 11:41:07 pm »
The one where it feels like drowning.
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Offline jaybug

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #99 on: April 02, 2009, 06:14:08 pm »
Obama would taste like pork. Literally and figuritively. You would be asking, where's the beef? And all there would be would be pork. Maybe it would have a slight barrel taste to it or not, dunno.

REad today that burning wood is not a good energy choice in the guest viewpoint in the local paper down here. It releases toxins, and other bad things happen, like it really isn't renewable. Hmm, I guess we should save all the woodland creatures by removing all dead trees so they aren't exposed to those poisons, and to ban forest fires from happening.

Personally I think it would be easier to ban humans, by raising taxes or something like that. They have a good start on that down here.
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Offline DancingTofu

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #100 on: April 02, 2009, 06:50:31 pm »
Burning wood, as a serious source of energy, isn't practical at all.  The amount of energy you get out of it that can be collected and used to power modern appliances is so minimal that you're better off just cranking a lever attached to a small manual generator.  However, the whole "releases toxins, isn't renewable" part is completely bull****.  Burning wood, compared to burning artificial coals, gasoline, or chemicals like nicotine, really is pretty harmless.  It puts of smoke and carbon dioxide, but breathing puts off carbon dioxide, and smoke, without fun things like ammonia or sulfur in it, is pretty harmless.  Wood fires contribute minimally to pollution.  Why anyone would be making a big deal out of it when we're filling the environment with hundreds of megatons of other pollutants each year is beyond me. 

As for how wood fires effect the environment, the dead carbon ash provides excellent fertilizer, and trees like oaks and firs, as well as shrubs like ocean spray, which have natural protections against fire, tend to flourish after forest fires.  As a registered member of the Pacific Green Party, I assure you, that source is worthless when it comes to energy and sustainability, if this article you read is to be any representation of it.
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Offline jaybug

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #101 on: April 02, 2009, 07:02:02 pm »
The power plant he is whining about will produce 19 megawatts of power. Weyerhauser produces 35 megawatts at their plant in Springfield. Roseburg has a wood fired plant producing 65 megawatts. Here we used to produce about 6 megawatts, enough to meet the needs of campus, and export some on the grid.

True compared to coal, nuclear and hydro projects wood is hardly a player in the power production market, but every little bit helps.

The article was written on behalf of the regional air pollution authority. They need to throw their weight around a bit, as they are becoming increasingly irrelevant. I guess. They don't care about erosion I can assure you, come look at my millrace behind their operation.

Ammonia and sulfur can be fertilizers too. At least my house plants seem to really like the fish tank water that I use to water them with seems to do the trick. It has lots of ammonia and nitrates, by the time I change the water. I try, I really do to change the water weekly, but it slips to bi-weekly too often, just in time to keep the plants from dying it seems.

About the sawmill, they have demonstrated that they will be spending 11 million on stuff to reduce pollution that will surpass all standards set. This in a previous article in the Register Guard.

I wrote my mom and my own representative it exasperated me so.

It also goes after senator Wyden And congressman DeFazio as they are too moderate.

I guess the far-left and the far-right want all America to look liks Sacremento, so that nothing gets done, and the lobbyists can rule the roost, or at least the bureaucrats can.
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Offline DancingTofu

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #102 on: April 02, 2009, 07:11:39 pm »
Glad to hear you acted on it and have done your research on the subject.
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Offline Prinz Eugen

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #103 on: April 06, 2009, 10:41:38 pm »
Just a few figures on wood, etc.

The worst coal (lowest energy per pound) creates about 8,000 BTU per pound. Most of that comes from Wyoming and some in Centralia WA. It is nasty fossilized dead dinosaur sludge, and it creates a lot of ash and glassy crud when I burn it in my little melting furnace.**

The best coal has almost twice that energy: 15,000 BTU per pound and it is mostly form Kentucky. This is gorgeous, shiny black and it burns very clean and very hot.

Wood pellets are a fairly decent option; they are also in the 6,000 BTU - 8000 BTU range.

Lastly, making wood charcoal is a viable alternative, especialy if you can capture the volatile gases and burn those for some useful effect. Wood -> charcoal, and coal -> coke. Charcoal and its fossil fuel cousin coke both burn extremely hot and clean per pound. Cupola furnaces burn coke mixed in with broken up bits of scrap iron to cast pig iron directly. Great fun, here's Steve Chastain's rig pouring some nice iron:


People in WW2 used to drive cars they converted to producer gas - which is the volatiles coming off wood as you turn it into charcoal: Here's a guy doing it now: http://www.woodgas.net/

One old German geezer told me he'd hit strays while driving and throw 'em in the combustor. Hit the cat, toss it in over the top, get an extra mile and a half or so..






Offline melchizedek

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #104 on: April 07, 2009, 11:52:51 am »
There is some talk of using E.coli to make biofuels.  I saw a show where they made a plant that converted bark and wood scraps to ethanol.  Also, there is research going on into creating longer hydro carbons.

http://domesticfuel.com/2008/12/30/e-coli-helps-make-ethanol/

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080106202952.htm

Using corn to make biofules like we do today poses a problem because it trades food products for fuel which for our governor has caused some problems(bad press for investing all that money).  What I'd like to see is Obama do some kind of challenge like Kennedy did.  Only related to getting us x% off foreign oil by 2010 instead of landing on the moon by the end of the decade.   
Yaoi crossplay... is actually Yuri.

Offline jaybug

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #105 on: April 07, 2009, 08:54:00 pm »
@ mel...or anyone really, do you know why we are producing ethanol, as opposed to methanol? Is it just so we don't pay tax on it?

Big Hanaford is amazing! I'd go work there but I really don't want to go back to graveyard again, unless they have rotating shifts, which is still ick. But I could do that!

Note: they don't use the local coal anymore, it's more cost effective to ship from Wyoming or wherever back east. This from a friend who lives in the area.
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Offline Prinz Eugen

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #106 on: April 08, 2009, 06:19:19 am »
Here we go, another 'test':
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE53721Z20090408

Remember Prez Carter, who left Americans in the hands of Iranian hostage takers for 444 days?

Let's keep tabs on how President 'Seems-useless-without-his-teleprompter' responds.

Oh, and did anyone catch our new First Lady who TOUCHED the queen of England!
Way to go, Class act there!

www.hotair.com has also coined a great new word: "Obamateurism."

On another topic, my guess is ethanol is a byproduct of fermentation so there are many more ways to get it than to get methanol, which probably requires cat-cracking. Microbes generate their own energies to break complex sugars (also they make their own enzymes for converting starches into fermentable sugars.) Cracking towers generally run on human-paid-for energy sources.

Offline jaybug

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #107 on: April 08, 2009, 08:21:39 pm »
methanol, comes in things like Jack Daniels, Jim Beam, and all vodkas. oh and beer. and whine, I mean wine. ethanol poison, methanol poison, but fun too!

Oh, and the Americans re-took the ship as of the time I left for work today. No waiting for Democratic presidents to come to the rescue.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2009, 08:23:24 pm by jaybug »
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Offline jaybug

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #108 on: April 24, 2009, 10:52:08 am »
Do you think Bo will be trained to bite reporters? You never know when the Secret Service is spending all that time walking the dog. lol
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Offline Prinz Eugen

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #109 on: April 26, 2009, 11:38:54 am »
Oh, and the Americans re-took the ship as of the time I left for work today. No waiting for Democratic presidents to come to the rescue.
They are gonna try the 16yr old Somalis as adults.
Serves 'em right.

By the way if anyone wants info on what teenagers CAN DO on the open sea, check out this FINE YOUNG AMERICAN:

http://www.uss-barney-ddg6.org/joshua.htm

Age 10: Joshua Barney wrote a note to his father in which he stated that, “I have learned everything the school master can teach me.”

Age 12:  "Joshua Barney, now 12 decided he was ready to cross the North Atlantic." (umm, in winter, no less...)

Age 14: The captain of the vessel dies, leaving Barney in command.

Age 16: "Barney accepted a position as Master Mate aboard the ten-gun converted sloop Hornet. Joshua Barney, at age 16, was second in command to the captain."

Great reading, I'll leave the rest for those interested.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2009, 11:47:29 am by Prinz Eugen »

Offline Prinz Eugen

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #110 on: April 27, 2009, 03:46:40 pm »

Offline jaybug

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #111 on: April 27, 2009, 04:56:17 pm »
But they had TOP MEN working on it!

TOP; MEN.
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Offline Prinz Eugen

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #112 on: May 06, 2009, 06:35:49 am »
Time for another news story link and one of my unpopular, inconvenient questions.
(Remember, all those 'Question Authority' buttons and stickers? They apply now too....)

News story:
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/05/05/lauria-allegations-of-threats-corroborated/

Question: Is this governing or bullying?

Offline jaybug

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Re: Obama is Prez
« Reply #113 on: May 12, 2009, 06:46:28 pm »
Hmm, but the only good thing Chrysler was building was the M1A1 Abrams main battle tank. Unless you count Freightliner, which never really had much of anything to do with them, except as a target. Sorry, but I haven't liked Chrysler since they took over American Motors Corporation.

My mom rode in a Buick Lucerne a couple weeks back. She said it sucked. She's very glad she bought the RAV4 instead. I guess I should feel very grateful that my Le Sabre is doing just fine.
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Offline Prinz Eugen

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Re: Obama Closes - um, Keeps Gitmo!
« Reply #114 on: May 15, 2009, 07:01:50 am »
SUCKERS!!

I wonder how many starry-eyed idealists are starting to feel more than a bit betrayed now.
Vote for a pullout form Iran/Afghanistan - Oops, we're staying.
Vote for an end to the Gitmo gulags - Oops, let's keep them...

Quote, defining the Obama Three-Step:
Quote
First: Denounce your presidential predecessor for a given policy, energizing your party’s base and capitalizing on his abiding unpopularity. Second: Pretend to have reversed that policy upon taking office with a symbolic act or high-profile statement. Third: Adopt a version of that same policy, knowing that it’s the only way to govern responsibly or believing that doing otherwise is too difficult. Repeat as necessary.
Re Buick I have not driven them in years. For a while they were THE choice for engineers. (Go figure that...)

« Last Edit: May 15, 2009, 07:03:39 am by Prinz Eugen »

Offline Prinz Eugen

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Write your own O-bambi speech!
« Reply #115 on: June 05, 2009, 06:42:01 am »
FUNNY ESSAY

Excerpt:

Step 1: "Thanks for having me."
2. Express shock that someone with your life story could ever stand before such a crowd…
3. ...But that's just America for you.
4. Pause for audience interruption.
5. Have gracious comeback ready.
6. Pay homage to Founding Fathers and/or quote the Declaration of Independence.
7. Express regret at America’s failures to live up to its founding principles.
8. Both sides have a point.
   (a.) "On the one hand....."
   (b.) "But on the other hand...."
9. Dismiss traditional battle lines as insufficiently nuanced. Find common ground.
10. After all, just look at me!
11. Manage expectations.
12. That said, don’t be afraid to dream big.
13. Invoke God.