Author Topic: Cheap Items- fake?  (Read 6891 times)

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Offline Neko_Chan

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Cheap Items- fake?
« on: February 19, 2005, 08:13:47 pm »
I've head some stories form people that dealer rooms often sell stuff below the regular price.
But then in a magazine (I think it was Newtype) I saw that some people where selling illegal items. Or something like that. I'm not too sure.
I just have two questions;
1. Is it true that items are lower that the regular prices? (If so, any examples?)
2. And if I, or someone else buys items from the bad dealers, will we be charched with anything?

Offline BigGuy

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Cheap Items- fake?
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2005, 09:55:16 am »
I think cons try to keep the nasty bootleggers away, but a good rule is a $5 dvd of your favorite movie is prolly a bootleg(most aren't that obvious)
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Offline Neko_Chan

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Cheap Items- fake?
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2005, 10:43:25 am »
^_^- Okay, thank you.

Offline Nyco27

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Cheap Items- fake?
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2005, 12:41:47 pm »
the great thing about the dealers room is that there is often room for haggling especaily when you're getting lots of stuff at one time. Although doing it too much can really being annoying so careful there.

When it  comes to prices I thought they were pretty good. From what I saw at Kumoricon 04, most dvd's were going for 20 bucks where suncoasts sells them for thirty. There was also a vender last year selling a lot of old stock anime vhs' for uber-cheap, but I also heard that the pocky was more expensive and plushies *always* seem to expensive to me, but that could just be me.

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Offline Neko_Chan

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Cheap Items- fake?
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2005, 05:45:58 pm »
Quote from: "Nyco27"
the great thing about the dealers room is that there is often room for haggling especaily when you're getting lots of stuff at one time. Although doing it too much can really being annoying so careful there.

When it  comes to prices I thought they were pretty good. From what I saw at Kumoricon 04, most dvd's were going for 20 bucks where suncoasts sells them for thirty. There was also a vender last year selling a lot of old stock anime vhs' for uber-cheap, but I also heard that the pocky was more expensive and plushies *always* seem to expensive to me, but that could just be me.

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Offline Negima

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Cheap Items- fake?
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2005, 05:34:13 am »
If you want to be really, really sadistic, what you do is you buy a lot of pocky from the store or during a sale, then sell it at a high price at the end of the con when everyone's stock of pocky has run out.

Not that I've done that or anything.  I just have the odd ability of thinking up something evil easily.  Doing it is another thing.

Offline Neko_Chan

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Cheap Items- fake?
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2005, 09:46:13 am »
Quote from: "Negima"
If you want to be really, really sadistic, what you do is you buy a lot of pocky from the store or during a sale, then sell it at a high price at the end of the con when everyone's stock of pocky has run out.

Not that I've done that or anything.  I just have the odd ability of thinking up something evil easily.  Doing it is another thing.

I was acctualy thinking of doing that... only not so expensive.

Offline Nyco27

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« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2005, 02:57:39 am »
we havent had the problem of running out of pocky, if you really want to do the price gouging thing, do it with Ranmue. That was completely out before the end of the second day last year if I remember right. It made me sad.

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Offline Neko_Chan

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Cheap Items- fake?
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2005, 09:42:03 am »
Ahw. :(
I'm gonna stock up up all kinds of pocky before. I saw this really awsomely sweet store on line that sold so many kinds. :) I really want to try Milk flavored.

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« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2005, 03:57:42 pm »
pocky............................*drool*
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Offline Radien

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Cheap Items- fake?
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2005, 04:19:03 am »
Running a Pocky gambit wouldn't necessarily make you very popular. ;)

As for bootlegs, here's one other rule of thumb:

Any dealer selling soundtracks for an across-the-board "$15 per disc" pricing scheme is almost certainly selling bootlegs. Normally, prices for soundtracks vary dramatically, but they don't vary at all when they were supplied by a bootlegger.

It's very hard to "price shop" for Japanese media. It's similar to buying new video games: most items sell for the same price no matter where you go. I hate to sound cliche`, but if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. (unless, of course, it's used merchandise, which is sometimes hella cheap)

One other thing you can do is to find a dealer you trust, and ask him what the most common bootleg brand names are. :) Most people know about SonMay (sp?), but Ever Anime is also a common bootleg brand, and I'm sure there are many others.
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Offline SailorNaboo

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Cheap Items- fake?
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2005, 11:09:49 am »
Quote from: "Nyco27"


When it  comes to prices I thought they were pretty good. From what I saw at Kumoricon 04, most dvd's were going for 20 bucks where suncoasts sells them for thirty. Nyco


Suncoast sells DVDs for the "Suggested Retail Price."  Since I have a subscription box at my local comic book store, I always get my US  releases there, and they charge me $24.95 for the same DVD if I order it in advance.  Nothing against Suncoast or any of the big chain stores, but I like supporting local businesses who have been selling anime for years.  But then I love the guys and girl from the local shop!

My local store as a "store copy" of Previews (like a catalogue) and the regulars at the store go through it and put their box number next to the item we want to order with the "trusty red pen."  The catch is, if you put your number by it, you are agreeing to by it.  Because I've been going there for years, my extra purchases get the same discount.   Also, because places like that get to know you, sometimes if they get a cool advertising poster for something that they know you like, sometimes it just gets 'tossed' in your box for free!  ;)  

Anyway, this is just a long way of saying that they are still either making a little bit of money for each DVD at $20.  The other thing that also happens with a lot of DVDs is first they are offered one at a time, and then a few months after the last in the series comes out, sometimes the series is offered as a whole for less than the cost of 3 of the DVDs!  Once that happens, they just want to get rid of the individual DVDs because why by 6 DVDs at full price when now there is a set for $45 (or less!).  I had that happen to me when Fancy Lala came out.   Now when a new series come out, I check to see if it's one of companies that usually come out with the box later on, and if so, I wait for the box!
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'Bootleg' vs HK ?
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2005, 12:49:11 pm »
Is there a difference between a 'bootleg' and an 'HK import?'
Bootlegs are illegal copies, but Is an HK import quai-legitimate, or what? ?

Offline Dustin

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Cheap Items- fake?
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2005, 07:46:07 pm »
I'm pretty good at spotting bootlegs, so, let me post a couple lists here.

These companies sell bootleg cds:
SonMay (SM)
EverAnime
Alion
Archer Records
Miya Records
Golden Diamond Music

These companies sell bootleg anime:
Anime Internationl
Anime Japan International
Anime Cartoon
Anime Cartoon International
Anime Studio
A.D.C. (Another DVD Company)
Digital International
DVD Ani
FX
Indian International
K
Manga
Manga International (Note about these two, these are not the American Manga Entertaiment and have no affiliation whatsoever)
Video Animation

These are most of the big name bootleggers for cds and anime dvds.

Most legitimate cds have the manufacturer part number. Authentic Japanese Imports all have a four letter company name, followed by a dash, and then a four or five digit number.

The short company names include these:
COCC = Nippon Columbia
POCX = Polygram
PICA = Pioneer Entertainment (Japan)
APCM =Appolon Inc.
VICL = Victor Entertainment
KICA = King Records
AVCA = Avex Mode
PCCB = Pony Canyon

There are still many more than the ones I have listed, I just felt these to be the most important ones.

Taiwanese companies only have two or three-letter words which are usually followed by a three digit number. The majority of the time, the first release is marked with 001 in a similar fashion as the Japanese imports to make them look more authentic:
SM/GGG/GA=SonMay
A8=Ever Anime

Most Taiwanese companies can legally produce these for the Taiwanese market, because they are not a signature member of the International Copyright Agreement (the Berne Convention), which requires each signing country to abide by worldwide copyright laws.  Because if this they can freely produce copies of licensed CD's from other countries without regard to royalties, licensing agreements, or copyright laws.

So, be on the lookout for bootlegs this coming Kumoricon. If found, I suggest letting the Security team know, or someone on Staff.

This has been the first and only installment of "Spotting Bootlegs with Dustin", thank you, and have a nice day. :D

Offline otakusan

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Re: Cheap Items- fake?
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2005, 08:53:11 pm »
Quote from: "Neko_Chan"
I've head some stories form people that dealer rooms often sell stuff below the regular price.
But then in a magazine (I think it was Newtype) I saw that some people where selling illegal items. Or something like that. I'm not too sure.
I just have two questions;
1. Is it true that items are lower that the regular prices? (If so, any examples?)
2. And if I, or someone else buys items from the bad dealers, will we be charched with anything?

if some items arent sellin well, some of the dealers will mark em down to half price.  I got a ranma boxset for sixty bucks.  It was originally 120.

POCKY!!!!!!!!!
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Offline Radien

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Cheap Items- fake?
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2005, 04:20:30 am »
Quote from: "someone"
Is there a difference between a 'bootleg' and an 'HK import?'
Bootlegs are illegal copies, but Is an HK import quasi-legitimate, or what? ?

"Quasi legitimate"... I think you pretty much got it down, there.

Hong Kong imports are usually copies of the original that are sold without permission or paying any royalties to the makers. This is because Hong Kong, and certain other places like Taiwan (I think), do not recognize international copyright law.

I THINK it is legal to sell Hong Kong "bootlegs" in America. I'm not sure why. It may be because the copyright law was circumvented in a country where there are no repurcussions to copyright infringement, and THEN brought here.

Still, it is, in spirit, exactly the same as buying a bootleg, by most people's moral standards. So most of us just call them "bootlegs" regardless of whether they're technically legal or not. That's also why cons often discourage vendors from selling them... but since they're technically legal, it's really hard to keep them out of the dealer's room entirely (from what I've gathered).

Dustin:

Thank you for that ton of useful information! :) I'll definitely read through it several times... heck, I might even print it out and bring it with me to a future con.

However, I don't often buy anime DVDs (I find it more cost-effective to rent), and it's been awhile since I've had enough extra cash to think about buying anime/game soundtracks... -_-;
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Offline Dustin

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Cheap Items- fake?
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2005, 08:11:16 am »
Quote from: "Radien"
Quote from: "someone"
Is there a difference between a 'bootleg' and an 'HK import?'
Bootlegs are illegal copies, but Is an HK import quasi-legitimate, or what? ?

"Quasi legitimate"... I think you pretty much got it down, there.

Hong Kong imports are usually copies of the original that are sold without permission or paying any royalties to the makers. This is because Hong Kong, and certain other places like Taiwan (I think), do not recognize international copyright law.

I THINK it is legal to sell Hong Kong "bootlegs" in America. I'm not sure why. It may be because the copyright law was circumvented in a country where there are no repurcussions to copyright infringement, and THEN brought here.

Still, it is, in spirit, exactly the same as buying a bootleg, by most people's moral standards. So most of us just call them "bootlegs" regardless of whether they're technically legal or not. That's also why cons often discourage vendors from selling them... but since they're technically legal, it's really hard to keep them out of the dealer's room entirely (from what I've gathered).

Dustin:

Thank you for that ton of useful information! :) I'll definitely read through it several times... heck, I might even print it out and bring it with me to a future con.

However, I don't often buy anime DVDs (I find it more cost-effective to rent), and it's been awhile since I've had enough extra cash to think about buying anime/game soundtracks... -_-;

Unfortunatly, they aren't legal.

Hong Kong is mostly known for bootleg merchandise. However, like Taiwan, China didn't wasn't a part of the world copyright laws.

That is, until recently. I heard recently (As in late last year), after alot of pressure from other countries, China did join it. Meaning that all that merchandise is now illegal to sell in or outside China.

Interesting fact. Most bootlegged anime is actually direct from Hong Kong, while most bootlegged anime cds are from Taiwan.

Make ya wonder if its some sort of ring, or something, huh?

I'd advise anyone who can to print out my last post, and keep it on hand for any con. Knowing whats real and whats not will greatly help you, especially if you want something direct from Japan.

Another good piece of information. Most bootlegged anime DVDs come in ALL REGION coding and usually have English or Chinese subtitles. In some cases both. Some may or may not have dubs aswell (they're clearly ripping american dvds now).

American companies only release DVDs in Region one. The only thing I can thing of even being closed to released as All Region would be the tenth anniversary Ninja Scroll DVD which was released as a DVD9, playable in more than one Region (1, 2, and 4, I believe).

There are alot of fakes out there, so be on the look out.

Offline rarnom

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Cheap Items- fake?
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2005, 08:19:38 am »
Quote from: "Radien"
Hong Kong imports are usually copies of the original that are sold without permission or paying any royalties to the makers. This is because Hong Kong, and certain other places like Taiwan (I think), do not recognize international copyright law.

I THINK it is legal to sell Hong Kong "bootlegs" in America. I'm not sure why. It may be because the copyright law was circumvented in a country where there are no repurcussions to copyright infringement, and THEN brought here.


I also am PRETTY SURE it is essentially and by some stretch of the law legal to sell HK made bootlegs because it is considered a 're-sale'.  One of the bigger resellers of HK dvds even has a full on walk in store in Colorado.  And there are so many on ebay and other online retailers based in the US, if it was illegal they would be shut down long ago, especially on ebay I would imagine.

BUT, that doesn't mean that companies like ADV, FUNI, etc... can't send a C&D order (cease and desist) to the online retailer.  All that results in is that the retailer has to remove the titles distributed by that company from the active listing in the catalog.  Customers can still request titles via email and set up a regular transfer for whatever title the store happens to have in stock.
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Offline Dustin

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Cheap Items- fake?
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2005, 09:47:48 pm »
Quote from: "rarnom"
Quote from: "Radien"
Hong Kong imports are usually copies of the original that are sold without permission or paying any royalties to the makers. This is because Hong Kong, and certain other places like Taiwan (I think), do not recognize international copyright law.

I THINK it is legal to sell Hong Kong "bootlegs" in America. I'm not sure why. It may be because the copyright law was circumvented in a country where there are no repurcussions to copyright infringement, and THEN brought here.


I also am PRETTY SURE it is essentially and by some stretch of the law legal to sell HK made bootlegs because it is considered a 're-sale'.  One of the bigger resellers of HK dvds even has a full on walk in store in Colorado.  And there are so many on ebay and other online retailers based in the US, if it was illegal they would be shut down long ago, especially on ebay I would imagine.

BUT, that doesn't mean that companies like ADV, FUNI, etc... can't send a C&D order (cease and desist) to the online retailer.  All that results in is that the retailer has to remove the titles distributed by that company from the active listing in the catalog.  Customers can still request titles via email and set up a regular transfer for whatever title the store happens to have in stock.

Thats part of the reason they get away with it.

Nobody does anything about it.

Offline Negima

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Cheap Items- fake?
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2005, 12:35:36 am »
Quote from: "Dustin"
These companies sell bootleg cds:
SonMay (SM)
EverAnime
Alion
Archer Records
Miya Records
Golden Diamond Music

Hey, I just realized one of my Escaflowne CDs is a bootleg.  It has EverAnime on it.  (can't remember where I bought it though)
I have a couple more CDs that I'm a little suspicious of being bootlegs.  Which company has a smiley face logo (if there is one)?  Also, is AnimeTrax legit?

Offline Dustin

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Cheap Items- fake?
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2005, 01:41:14 am »
Quote from: "Negima"
Quote from: "Dustin"
These companies sell bootleg cds:
SonMay (SM)
EverAnime
Alion
Archer Records
Miya Records
Golden Diamond Music

Hey, I just realized one of my Escaflowne CDs is a bootleg.  It has EverAnime on it.  (can't remember where I bought it though)
I have a couple more CDs that I'm a little suspicious of being bootlegs.  Which company has a smiley face logo (if there is one)?  Also, is AnimeTrax legit?

The smiley face doesn't sound familier to me.

ANIMEtrax is legit. They're run by Right Stuf International.

Offline Radien

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« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2005, 04:36:26 pm »
Dustin:

Wow, talk about recent developments. That's good to be informed of. :) Perhaps it'll be easier to keep them out of the dealer's room now(?)

Oftentimes, if I don't know the names of bootlegger companies, I just check the back of the DVD: if it has a Chinese synopsis, or it lists both Chinese and English as selectable languages, it's almost always a bootleg. However... now that international copyright law has been extended to China, I think it is possible that legit licensers may arise. So only time will tell.

I don't know much about Taiwan, except that I once visited a Taiwanese friend who had brought all her Playstation games to America, and every one of the dozens and dozens she owned was a bootleg. So I'm guessing it's pretty standard over there... I've heard someone defend Taiwan by saying that the industry has completely snubbed them. I don't know. :?

Rarnom:

I'm clueless about the way Cease & Desist orders work in this case, but that's all quite interesting...
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Offline Dustin

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Cheap Items- fake?
« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2005, 06:54:57 pm »
Quote from: "Radien"
Dustin:

Wow, talk about recent developments. That's good to be informed of. :) Perhaps it'll be easier to keep them out of the dealer's room now(?)

Oftentimes, if I don't know the names of bootlegger companies, I just check the back of the DVD: if it has a Chinese synopsis, or it lists both Chinese and English as selectable languages, it's almost always a bootleg. However... now that international copyright law has been extended to China, I think it is possible that legit licensers may arise. So only time will tell.

I don't know much about Taiwan, except that I once visited a Taiwanese friend who had brought all her Playstation games to America, and every one of the dozens and dozens she owned was a bootleg. So I'm guessing it's pretty standard over there... I've heard someone defend Taiwan by saying that the industry has completely snubbed them. I don't know.


For the most part that is true. Because they don't have a large economy, they get flooded with cheap bootlegs, because legit merchandise is so over priced and costs far too much.

This year at K-con, since I know how to identify them, I will be on the lookout for bootlegs and knockoffs, and I will report them to Staff.

If I can make it, that is. Still searching for a room.

Offline black marth 07

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Cheap Items- fake?
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2005, 10:09:19 am »
Too much to read..

Offline black marth 07

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Cheap Items- fake?
« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2005, 11:21:34 am »
Quote from: "black marth 07"
Too much to read..


Still too much to read

Offline Dustin

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Cheap Items- fake?
« Reply #25 on: May 24, 2005, 05:32:20 pm »
Quote from: "black marth 07"
Quote from: "black marth 07"
Too much to read..


Still too much to read

Thank you for adding nothing to the conversation and spamming the topic.

Offline Crystantia

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buying at wholesale
« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2005, 07:37:32 pm »
stores make a lot of money.. usually. That's stores like suncoast and big name brands. They sell at high prices so then after they sell enough they can reduce prices on other things and not loss money. That's why you can buy one CD at 24.99 and another at 4.99 - Markup. Having bought things at wholesale and selling legal copies of CD's for under 15.00 even then we mark them up about 150% which is much better than other stores. The really bad mark ups are candy and cell phone items. They range from 600%- 1000%. Some insight from the inside ;)
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Offline black marth 07

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Cheap Items- fake?
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2005, 09:58:06 am »
Quote from: "Dustin"
Quote from: "black marth 07"
Quote from: "black marth 07"
Too much to read..


Still too much to read

Thank you for adding nothing to the conversation and spamming the topic.


Your welcome

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Cheap Items- fake?
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2005, 11:38:35 am »
Quote from: "Dustin"
IMost Taiwanese companies can legally produce these for the Taiwanese market, because they are not a signature member of the International Copyright Agreement :D


So, the at what point does the law / a law get broken? (I'm slow at this.)

Offline Dustin

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Cheap Items- fake?
« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2005, 03:42:06 pm »
Quote from: "Anonymous"
Quote from: "Dustin"
IMost Taiwanese companies can legally produce these for the Taiwanese market, because they are not a signature member of the International Copyright Agreement :D


So, the at what point does the law / a law get broken? (I'm slow at this.)

When they start selling in markets outside of Taiwan.