Author Topic: Initial Ideas & Discussion for AMV Contest 2009!  (Read 5041 times)

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Offline Prinz Eugen

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Initial Ideas & Discussion for AMV Contest 2009!
« on: October 12, 2008, 12:06:51 pm »
And around we go again. The circle of the year repeats!

So - this thread is open for suggestions, ideas & comments next year's contest.
Here are seeds for discussion:

a. I usually get allocated a 3hr block. How much of that should be the contest, the pre-show, or the main show? How long should these segments be?

b. New Category Ideas? I try to come up with at least one new twist. This past year I ran:

Drama-1 (dark, serious, horror)
Drama-2 (light, upbeat, romance)
Japanese music
'Old School' (pre-1990 anime)
Action & Effects (which the judges later split up into individual categories)
Random Amusement (comedy + 'WTF')

So for (b,) drop a category from the above, and make up a new one? I got a number of suggestions written in on the AMV ballots, and a couple which intrigued me as an interesting challenge for the editors are: 'Silent' and 'Black and White.'  This made me think of other variations I had run in previous contests, such as 'Instrumental.'
I had made the Old School intro using Speed Racer desaturated to nearly b/w, composited onto the 30s-era episode of Animatrix and set to a cut from Kaibutsu Ojou which sounded very ragtime-era, and it kinda worked, so this might be a viable category.

Are there any categories or anime sources we want to EXCLUDE from certain categories?
(This was tried off and on a few years back; but there were no 'banned' anime series this time or in 2007 iirc, the only standing rule was that 90% of any entry has to actually be anime, meaning not live action or anime-wanna-be cartoons like those listed here: The definition that "anime = Japanese animation" is very common in most AMV contests.)

Lastly, our goal is to ENTERTAIN the AUDIENCE. Last year's editors created superb works - congrats again to all of you.

Your turn...

Offline Mitsukai Mizu Amaya

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Re: Initial Ideas & Discussion for AMV Contest 2009!
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2008, 02:34:56 pm »
I am thinking of doing another FullMetal Alchemist one. Mine was the first in the Japanese music category. I've learned my lesson with sending in Final Fantasy though... FAR too many. So maybe a comedy mix of anime and games, like the infamous "HEY, HEY! LISTEN, LISTEN!" from Zelda to... maybe Naruto flirting with Sakura or something.
I might possibly lip-synch the FMA one. The song I was thinking of was either Nothing I won't give or Brothers, both by Vic Mignogna(voice for Ed in english). Then again, they are over used somewhat.
A third could possibly be an old school, Ranma 1/2. That is , if it is old school. I'm not sure. It's also an insane hastle to use for an AMV, with the way they animated it.
I kind of like the idea of an instrumental category. That ay the editors can focus more on the music itself rather then trying to synch images and scenes to words. Then again, it also makes it harder to keep the audience interested... hmm...
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Offline thundercatlord

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Re: Initial Ideas & Discussion for AMV Contest 2009!
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2008, 02:18:58 am »
Well there is one thing I would like to voice my point of view on...

Your view on the original Transformers. Specifically the 1986 animated movie. Now while the original series may not be considered anime by "purists".. the movie at least, was indeed animated in Japan. Look at the credits list for "Transformers: The Movie" (or it's Japanese title "Transformers the Movie: Mokushiroku Matrix yo Eien ni" ) you can see here: that all the names of the animators are Japanese. In fact it was done by Toei, the same people who brought us good ol' Sailor Moon  :) I'll go a step further to show that shows on it's list, that "Transformers: The Movie" is confirmed anime. And we all know that is the main place of the AMV community.

here are a few photos to illustrate my point:

to show that I am indeed on the ORG:

Next, to show the key for the list. Notice that confirmed anime will be listed in bold:

And finally to show that the ORG lists Transformers as anime:

The point is... I have had no problems using this source at other conventions such as Sakura-Con. You should consider allowing "Transformers: The Movie" as source footage. I have an epic video planned that will take me a very long time to complete and it is sure to be a crowd pleaser.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2008, 02:21:06 am by thundercatlord »

Offline Kahlan4

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Re: Initial Ideas & Discussion for AMV Contest 2009!
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2008, 03:09:25 am »
a suggestion would be not to start playing the pre-show until everyone is seated. i went to see mine from last year, and even though we weren't late, we didn't get to see it before we were seated cause it was played too early. rather disappointing T.T

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Offline BlackjackGabbiani

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Re: Initial Ideas & Discussion for AMV Contest 2009!
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2008, 03:21:55 am »
It was mentioned briefly in one of the threads about the '08 contest that any video with gay content was bumped to "mature" no matter what the content *was*, and that's horrendiously unfair and downright mean. I'd like to see things like that done away with--rate by the actions, not the people involved.

Offline LtCommanderRichie

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Re: Initial Ideas & Discussion for AMV Contest 2009!
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2008, 02:28:16 pm »
Why not divide the 'Retro' or 'Old-School' category into two sub-categories, music and video? The music category would have tracks like Frank Sinatra or Elvis or some cool 1920's Big Band instrumentals, whereas the video category would have pre-1990 anime.

Offline Mitsukai Mizu Amaya

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Re: Initial Ideas & Discussion for AMV Contest 2009!
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2008, 10:36:07 pm »
I agree with blackjack. I want to make a Strawberry Panic! amv possibly for the con... but if it's rated M just because it's shoujo-ai, then there's no point... I'll be seventeen at the next con.
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Offline Prinz Eugen

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Re: Initial Ideas & Discussion for AMV Contest 2009!
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2008, 07:11:53 am »
It was mentioned briefly in one of the threads about the '08 contest that any video with gay content was bumped to "mature" no matter what the content *was*
If you're thinking of the 'judges' panel live blog' I did last year, then:
- at one point a couple of Utena fansubs which included a girl-girl kiss were eliminated
- I later inquired why, and the reason was due to POOR VIDEO QUALITY, (fansubs!)
- one other entry [Utena or Gravitation] was eliminated for being TOO-DARN-LONG; over 5 minutes iirc, and
- I mentioned that I had some space in the Off-Hours timeslot.

My fault possibly, was not writing on that thread at that same time, that:
- the off-hours show leads off with mature vids I collect throughout the year, mostly due to explicit lyrics or potty-mouth comedians
- the rest of that slot is overflow from the contest and the show playlists,
- therefore, being allocated to the off-hours playlist does not necessarily indicate 'mature' content for all selections all the time, so we can put to rest the 'he said steel is grey so he says all grey things are steel' fallacy used to perpetuate this sort of trolling, and
- the main show playlist was already quite over-full.

Since I didn't know how long the contest would end up being, once it came out close to TWO HOURS, I had to trim the show back even MORE - from an original ninety minutes to about sixty-five. Thus many of the general-fare entries ended up showing in the 10pm-2am slot and at other times during the con when I was out showing 'whatever' AMVs. Also, those Utena vids were Dramas, and in audience-driven playlists ("What do you guys want to see?") people just about NEVER ask to see Drama - they invariably prefer Comedy, Action, and Effects. These sorts of items dropped from the main show playlist further displace drama entries culled from the contest - in whatever timeslot they end up showing.

Also remember that culls from Action & Effects entries often get a second look as possible Drama entries. A pixellated-crud romance entry stands only a weak chance in this sort of storm.

Last note on Off-Hours, I do not explicitly solicit HMVs, but if they come my way or if people send me their suggestions for off-hours content, I'll definitely throw that in the hopper for consideration in the off-hours playlist. I tend to mix things up but generally lead off with the most explicit fare, then chunks of 'regular' and finish off the night slot with lighter, fun selections because most people are rather punchy by then anyways.

There is no restriction based on whether an anime character is gay. Or Buddhist. Or SD. Or anything like that. Much of the fun of AMVs comes from taking a character in the story (who may be mundane, or a total cold killer psychopath, or a loser-date) and using the musical lyrics or setting to re-cast the character. Ikari Shinji as a decisive, cunning military strategist! Belledandy as an ambitious financial stock trader / corporate attorney? Spike and Jet as two family guys trying to raise adopted Ed in a typical American sitcom suburb (ouch!) It's all fair game, aka, a 'target-rich environment.'

What we're mostly discussing now is that some categories like 'Old School' will have era-based selection criteria or any other rule or constraint which is the challenge of that category. But other than those kind of constraints, Strawberry Panic!, Kyo Kara MaOh, Nodame Cantabile, Saiunkoku Monogatari** are just as welcome as any other anime. As long as it *is* anime.

** have you seen the COSTUMING in that show?!?! Drop-dead gorgeous IMHO.

« Last Edit: October 18, 2008, 08:51:15 am by Prinz Eugen »

Offline Prinz Eugen

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Re:"But is it anime?"
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2008, 07:28:32 am »
Final determination about whether a show 'counts as anime' or not is made collectively by the judges panel. I don't know what I'd do exactly if someone sent me 3min of all-WB characters. Besides writing privately with the creator, I'd still throw it at the judges. We had a Korean-animation work last year (KMVs?)

There was one year that they got into a discussion about whether Vampire Hunter D was or was not anime. We may all have our own opinions about this question, but they on the panel are the final decision makers.

tcat, go ahead and make your work, include a few links as documentation, and the gang of judges will decide.

'Transformers' is *not* listed here:
 so that's another good thing.

On the other hand, some quotes off of:
may cause some legitimate questions. Typically I discuss these sorts of things privately, but if no one minds doing it on a thread, I don't mind. Everyone knows that the overarching goal is to ENTERTAIN the AUDIENCE anyways, so we're really all on the same side when it comes to meeting that challenge. I think I'll open a separate thread on 'Transformers,' but leave this thread here for discussing categories and definitions.

Offline BlackjackGabbiani

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Re: Initial Ideas & Discussion for AMV Contest 2009!
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2008, 09:03:21 pm »
Well, in that summary you had back in that older thread, you said that they were booted to mature because of the content and *then* kicked out because of the quality.

Offline melchizedek

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Re: Initial Ideas & Discussion for AMV Contest 2009!
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2008, 08:53:40 am »
Something I'd like to see if a grouping of AMVs that are swing / jazz and use them during a dance
Yaoi crossplay... is actually Yuri.

Offline Prinz Eugen

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Yay! Back ON TOPIC!
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2008, 12:04:00 pm »
OK: Let's make a list of 'classic' categories and another list of 'experimental' categories.
At another time we can evaluate HOW MANY categories we want in total, because that figure affects (a) how long the contest runs within the typical 3 or 3 1/2 hour block, and (b) the cost to the con in terms of the total number of prizes. A smaller number of prizes when set against a fixed budget averages out to NICER prizes for the people who REALLY DO THE WORK - the AMV editors themselves. So far I've been able to hand out a DVD or a decent anime figurine as a category prize. (Thundercatlord did an AWESOME sweep the last time around and I was able to snag a complete series on DVD for him as triple-crown winner.)

So, for the Classics:
- Drama  (I have an idea below for us to kick around...)
- Japanese Music Something-or-other
- Action & Effects
- Movie Trailers (which also includes fake commercials, program OP/EDs etc.)
- Comedy/Random/Bizarre/Silly

Now for the Experimentals:
- Silent movie style*
- Black and White*
- Retro Music **
- Instrumental **
- Old School  (see below for explanation of the strike-through)

* Not a content restriction, any sources can be used, but the editor has to create the 'look' or 'style.'
** A constraint on source material. If we go with this, we'll need to discus what the boundaries are.

By the way, if anyone is watching Oh! Edo Rocket, there are VERY entertaining anachronisms (it's supposed to be early 1860's Japan, but there's all this 1930s/40s style music. Very strange but it all kinda WORKS...)

Also, @Melchizedek, if you are at all connected with selecting music for a dance event, I have a little over 60GB of AMVs in total. Would it be fun to select say, 2hrs worth (that's about 40 AMVs, roughly) that have already been made to highly dancable music, and just run the playlist with a screen behind the dance floor?

About Drama and Old School:
Typically we've had Drama, then as the contest grew we split that into a Drama (1) to handle serious, dark, angsty, tragic, or horror works, and then a Drama (2) for the light, fun, bubbly danc-y, young love, hope and freshness stuff.

This time, I'd like to tweak Drama-1 into a new category title called 'Tension.' This category is intended to grip the audience emotionally in ANY of the following ways.
- A conflict between strong wills: This could be a courtroom drama, ("My client is INNOCENT!") or a rebellious young adult making his or her own choice against family tradition, or even a military contention between two enemies and their master strategists. ("Is the attack on the northern outpost a feint, or the true main force?") A hostage-holder vs. skilled negotiator can be tense, too.
- Saving the world from doom while the clock is running out. This might even mean averting alien attack, containing a terrible plague of buggy things (Blue Gender,) or averting a nuclear war prompted by a misunderstanding between nations. ("Launch codes authenticated! Fail-Safe in 4 minutes 25 seconds!" and YOUR key is in the arming switch and YOUR finger is on the button...)
- Tracking down a serial criminal! Where will he or she strike next?!? Many other crime vs. detection and forensics stories. You'll hang on your seat until the final scene reveals who REALLY did it!
- Any number of horror tales and other mysteries. Classmates go missing one by one... Who's gonna get eaten/kidnapped into slavery/face printed on a milk carton/turned into a plush-zombie NEXT? Auuuugghhh!

Man, there could be twenty dozen stories like this to tell...
OK, so that's "TENSION." What do you think?

Lastly, Old School I crossed out just for now, because other people are thinking about other ways of time-period constraints like music eras, and I think it'd be weird to have more than one retro-nostalgia category going at once. Heck, peoples' cars would start growing chromed surfaces and sprouting tailfins in the hotel parking garage...

« Last Edit: October 21, 2008, 04:08:38 am by Prinz Eugen »

Offline JeffT

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Re: Initial Ideas & Discussion for AMV Contest 2009!
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2008, 08:54:08 pm »
Moderator's note: Let's keep everything civil please. Don't jump on somebody too much due to an error. The explanation of the argumentation/logic issues is interesting but please be careful to keep it so it's not personal. Also, please don't inject a controversial subject when not necessary as it can take the thread way off topic--especially politics.

Thanks :)

[Update: By offer of one of the posters, the off-topic tangent has been removed from the thread.]
« Last Edit: October 23, 2008, 12:59:06 am by JeffT »
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Offline Prinz Eugen

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Re: Music definitions?
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2008, 05:55:05 am »
This can be quite a stickler.

I am watching "Oh, Edo Rocket" now and even though the music 'sounds' authentically 1930s-40s, it would have been composed or produced in 2007-2008. 'Kaibutsu Oujou' has a very authentic ragtime piece in it - sure reminded me of the Eubie Blake records I listened to as a kiddo. (ehh? what? Get off my lawn!)

Anyways, if we say 'swing era,' how do we define it?
What about 'the Rat Pack' sound? 50s-70s crooners, Perry Comeau, etc?
(Can anyone name the whole Rat Pack without a trip to Wikipedia? I can't...)

Lastly, does this  make an ENTERTAINING category for the audience, and how?
(Not shooting the idea down, I'm just throwing out feeler questions to DEFINE the constraint.)

The clear the definition, the better the AMV makers can know what to do or try.

Offline KyoKyo866

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How about the second run?
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2008, 11:49:54 am »
Hi, being a contributor to last years amv contest (i had a video in the preshow, idk if that means anything XD) i do wonder about some things for next year, like so, some people in there might have to come along for the second run and since it isnt really as popular as the first, if they have won something, how would they have figured it out and would the prize be gone by then or would they have kept it around?
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Offline Prinz Eugen

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AMV Contest Questions (sort of off topic, but oh well...)
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2008, 07:01:57 pm »
Quote from: KyoKyo866
... i do wonder about some things for next year, like so, some people in there might have to come along for the second run and since it isn't really as popular as the first, if they have won something, how would they have figured it out and would the prize be gone by then or would they have kept it around?
After the AMV contest finishes, the ballots get counted. I am always grateful to the unsung volunteers who churn through 574 ballots (or whatever.) On average so far, about 1/3 of the audience actually votes. This past year, I printed up ballots for what I estimated to be 60% of the room capacity, and we got around 375 turned in - which again, worked out to around 1/3 of the audience.

Ballot counting takes about 2 - 3 hours. I don't vote on the judges' panel, and I don't count ballots, but I *do* vote ONE BALLOT in with the rest of the audience.

As soon as I receive the results - and can get onto the Internet - I post the playlist and results at the contest thread here on the Kumoricon forums, and also on the relevant thread on the forum as well. I try to get a line into the progress report handouts (if any) and finally I announce the winners and their titles at Closing Ceremonies. Lately, by audience request I have shown the Best of Show winner and sometimes the contest OP as well. This year I also included a spoof on the 'MPAA indoctrination trailer' that often runs in theatres (or used to.)
Any winners present at Closing Ceremonies are invited to receive their prize at that time.

LASTLY: I also contact EACH prize winner by means of contact info provided with the submission. Usually this is by e-mail, but sometimes people have given me forum names. I notify each prize winner of the category(ies) and prize(s) he or she has won, then confirm shipping addresses for the prizes. This is all done privately and one-to-one. I then hit the post office, and everyone who WON something gets a prize sent.

In one case a person of one religion, who lives in a country where a different religion is nearly compulsory, arranged that I sent the materials to a 3rd party, then contacted me when the prize arrived.
In one other case one winner declined to receive a prize, for private reasons.

During the five years I have done this, EVERYONE who won received their prize.
I have not yet seen an instance in which a prize winner was not contacted.
(knock on XViD)

« Last Edit: October 30, 2008, 07:06:05 pm by Prinz Eugen »