Banned Costumes/Cosplay?

[ZombieFace]

Hello,

I was curious if there was a list of costumes that were banned from Kumoricon 2008? I know of one costume banned on 2 occasions from this years Kumoricon.  But I was hoping I could get a list compiled of what is acceptable and what was obviously NOT acceptable (banned).

Here, I'll start:

PedoBear - This is a very frusterating situation for me, I was not pleased with how KumoriCon handled this.

[Deviant Spider]

Personally I was very happy that pedobear was banned. (its personal, dont ask. Id rather keep my oppinions to my self on the forum. Message me if you want personal oppinions)

I do know of another costume as well that was banned, but that was a huge dress code violation. A young lady dressed as Nyu/Lucy from Elfen Lied wasnt wearing enough bandages to be deemed public.

[~boogiepop~]

There were some inappropriate costumes at this con. Usually I wouldn't care but walking around this year I realized how many young kids come to these conventions. I saw way more kids under the age of 13 then I ever have. K-con is a family friendly con and I know if I was a parent I wouldn't want a half bandaged girl or pedobear running around my children. Plus I had no idea there was a Pedobear at con but whoever did that is complete idiot considering there was a thread during this season of con I do believe about someone wanting to bring a Pedobear costume to con and the replies were full of the staff saying that was a big no-no and it wouldn't be allowed at con.

So once again I say, thanks staff for keeping things in check.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

Isn't Pedobear a fursuit costume with nothing showing?

I mean, if we're going to ban costumes because of the characters, why do we have Murakis running around*? If the cosplayer starts acting in character, then they can be kicked, but the costume in and of itself ought to be perfectly fine.

(*or, moreover, King Bradley? I'd say enforcing genocide is a hell of a lot worse than molestation)

[The Night Bringer]

Im thinking it was banned more for the affiliation to pedophilia than anything else. It could be very bad for Kumoricon if people started thinking they were okay with such concepts.

[TomtheFanboy]

The pedobear debate is done, gone, and it actually got locked up and thrown down a well last time. this discussion can continue but please remember not to rant and just discuss the costumes that were banned.

For the record, Kumoricon is a PG-13 convention, that is our official stance on things. This year there were plenty of costumes allowed that technically broke the rules in one or two places. The one I noticed the most was the rule about bikini tops and costumes having to cover "sides of the breast", big surprise (both that it was allowed and that I noticed it). 

There was also a lot of mask wearing in the front lobby area where the hotel wanted masks off, not sure how mad the hotel got about that though. I was told to remove my mask several times when I was in my zim costume. Luckily I had a mask on top of my head-sock for just such occasions.

[XFD]

From what I have heard he wasn't banned, but put off until after 11pm or something. Still, the number of little kids around him was kind of

[BlackjackGabbiani]

Im thinking it was banned more for the affiliation to pedophilia than anything else. It could be very bad for Kumoricon if people started thinking they were okay with such concepts.

So how about Mr Kimura then? I swear we've had at least one of those...

[The Night Bringer]

Hmm, you know I never really thought of that. Mr. Kimura is pretty creepy...

[kylite]

We encountered a couple of costumes with string bikinis, and in each case hawkeye was the one to handle it. Each was deemed acceptable due to our own rules of allowing a costume which covers more then 60% of the body.

and as to the pedobear thing, the topic is dead but I will say this, One picture of that bear around children with kumoricon badges getting to the local papers and kumoricon would be GONE. DONE. FINISHED! so to put it bluntly, if you are so angry about having to change costumes, tough. Its better to upset one attendee and keep the con going then to please the one attendee and ruin it for EVERYONE!

[TanisNikana]

We encountered a couple of costumes with string bikinis, and in each case hawkeye was the one to handle it. Each was deemed acceptable due to our own rules of allowing a costume which covers more then 60% of the body.

and as to the pedobear thing, the topic is dead but I will say this, One picture of that bear around children with kumoricon badges getting to the local papers and kumoricon would be GONE. DONE. FINISHED! so to put it bluntly, if you are so angry about having to change costumes, tough. Its better to upset one attendee and keep the con going then to please the one attendee and ruin it for EVERYONE!

Quoted for the effin' truth.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

I honestly don't see how, or that anyone would actually know who it was other than internet geeks. Besides, we had people playing characters who do far worse.

[TanisNikana]

Leeroy's other cosplay was P-Bear, and when he raised the issue, his own mother said "don't worry, if they're not from the internet, they won't get it".

This means that his mother knew what it meant, and thought it appropriate.

Scares the hell out of me.

[xxxchihiroxxx]

I honestly don't see how, or that anyone would actually know who it was other than internet geeks. Besides, we had people playing characters who do far worse.

Well consider this Mr. Kimura while a very scary person, has a happy marige with wife and kids, and is only used for a comical sense and is on a far leser known level than that of Pedobear.

Now Pedobear is actualy more well known by a lot of people and although he is also used for comedy and what not the diffrence is he actualy DOES try to rape the children, (sorry if thats offensive) unlike Kimura who just dreams about it... while some may not reckognize him if it was a simple bear costume, if perhaps they put a signe around their neck claiming they were Pedobear, or if the bear costume was simpley good enough people could tell, then thats a big problem considering who Pedobear is....

While other costumes are inapropriat, and possibley of a character that is a killer, or commits other horrid crimes, can also be bad, its really consideration of what the public deems worthy of being a horrid horrid thing to dress up as... the con simply has little control of how the public reacts to these things, they just abide by the general rules so they can keep going. as said before if a picture of a kid around some one reckognizabley dressed as Pedobear gets realsed to the public then kumoricon is gone for good.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

Honestly I'd rather see someone dressed as a fictional molester than a Nazi. And I've seen those before (not this year, but before) and I don't think anyone tried to stop them.

There were, however, a fair amount of costumes that were clearly Nazi-inspired. I mean, you and I know that's not the connotation they were going for, but the average person on the street is a hell of a lot more likely to recognize that than an internet bear.

[Acheron]

:/ There's a difference between cosplaying someone like King Bradley, or Ganondorf, or any other fictional villain, and between cosplaying a creepy bear used by a skeevy imageboard to effectively say "pedophilia is awesome!". It's very easy to step back and say to the former, "Alright, this is just fictional, I know he's not really going to kill people", but (for some people, mainly those with kids) it's harder to separate "Pedobear" from "molesting and raping children".

o____o; I know I wouldn't mind personally if anyone did a Pedobear cosplay if this was a teen and up con, but as it is, it'd be super uncool to do that around all the little kids.

Also, what. I have never, ever, ever seen anyone who was cosplaying as a Nazi, or was even thinking about it. Not this year, not last year, not any year before that, not at this con and not at any con. Also, Godwin's Law, you lose the arguement.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

Godwin's is overused, and used incorrectly in this context. I wasn't comparing anyone *to* fascists (which is what it says, not just Nazis), I was pointing out that people *have* done those uniforms and costumes inspired by them. Also it wasn't an arguement, it was a discussion.

There *are* Nazis in anime, you realize. FMA and Hellsing are two such series, and those are both insanely popular to cosplay. But I don't see anyone worrying that the Jewish Anti-Defamation League is going to shut us down.

[Rathany]

I honestly don't see how, or that anyone would actually know who it was other than internet geeks. Besides, we had people playing characters who do far worse.

Well consider this Mr. Kimura while a very scary person, has a happy marige with wife and kids, and is only used for a comical sense and is on a far leser known level than that of Pedobear.

Now Pedobear is actualy more well known by a lot of people and although he is also used for comedy and what not the diffrence is he actualy DOES try to rape the children, (sorry if thats offensive) unlike Kimura who just dreams about it... while some may not reckognize him if it was a simple bear costume, if perhaps they put a signe around their neck claiming they were Pedobear, or if the bear costume was simpley good enough people could tell, then thats a big problem considering who Pedobear is....

While other costumes are inapropriat, and possibley of a character that is a killer, or commits other horrid crimes, can also be bad, its really consideration of what the public deems worthy of being a horrid horrid thing to dress up as... the con simply has little control of how the public reacts to these things, they just abide by the general rules so they can keep going. as said before if a picture of a kid around some one reckognizabley dressed as Pedobear gets realsed to the public then kumoricon is gone for good.

Very good points.  Also, from what little internet research I have been able to stand to do, ALL PedoBear does is try to go bad things to kids.  There is a huge difference between a character with a bad or comical side and a character whose sole purpose is to try to do things to kids.

Also, it was known via the forums that someone had planned to come to Kcon dressed as PedoBear and cause problems.  There were also agressive emails to directors.  Honestly, in retrospect we likely should have tried to figure out which attendee this was and have his badge yanked before the con even started.  Anyone being that abusive to our staff should not be allowed to attend.  

There were two other cosplayers involved in this.  One was a PedoBear who was asked to change.  Even if we allowed this, he likely would have been stopped by every Yoji and Exec for fear that he was our trouble maker.  There was also a furry there dressed as a bear who was NOT trying to be PedoBear.  He was cleared by Yojis to go about his bussiness.  

So, yes we should have handled this better.  We were too nice and hoped that our problem attendee would do as he was told and just enjoy the con like everyone else.

Also, now we ARE going to need new rules to restrict cosplays.  We DID NOT want to have to do this.  We have had various adult cosplays with no problems before.  Trying to find a wording that will ban PedoBear but allow other cosplays will be hard.

Darnnit, according to forum rules about PG-13 we should have even be discussing Pedo-things.  The reason the other thread got yanked was due to discussion of Pedo activities on a PG-13 board.  Maybe 'if the name of your character cannot be said in a PG-13 setting, then NO' might be a good place to start with the rule.  

Oh, and PedoBear is will known off of 4Chan.  He is in many forum sigs on many, many forums.  When I did my research back when this started, 4Chan wasn't even the top result.  

We want our attendees to feel safe at our con.  PedoBear makes many of our attendees, volunteers and staff feel unsafe.  If he even puts a friendly had on someone's shoulder it's an implied sexual threat.  

[Rathany]

Godwin's is overused, and used incorrectly in this context. I wasn't comparing anyone *to* fascists (which is what it says, not just Nazis), I was pointing out that people *have* done those uniforms and costumes inspired by them. Also it wasn't an arguement, it was a discussion.

There *are* Nazis in anime, you realize. FMA and Hellsing are two such series, and those are both insanely popular to cosplay. But I don't see anyone worrying that the Jewish Anti-Defamation League is going to shut us down.

No one is saying that people cannot play villians or bad people.  See my post above. 

[BlackjackGabbiani]

But I'm saying that a cosplayer of a Nazi character would raise a hell of a lot more red flags with the general populace than "someone dressed as a bear" if the picture appeared in the paper. Everyone knows what Nazis are. Very few people who don't go online know what Pedobear is.

Darnnit, according to forum rules about PG-13 we should have even be discussing Pedo-things.  The reason the other thread got yanked was due to discussion of Pedo activities on a PG-13 board.  Maybe 'if the name of your character cannot be said in a PG-13 setting, then NO' might be a good place to start with the rule.

You can't even *SAY* "pedo" in a pg-13 setting? I'm positive you can, otherwise those Movies of the Week wouldn't be rated PG-13 and those often deal with a hell of a lot worse.

[Acheron]

Yes, yes, I know how Godwin's Law goes. I'm sorry if you think it's overused.

The difference between the vampire/werewolf/whatever nazis in Hellsing, the alternate universe(? I have no idea when nazis appeared in FMA, but I read the manga, not watch the anime) nazis in FMA, and Pedobear is their goals. (And their costume... if someone was wearing an authentic, true to life Nazi uniform, I agree that shouldn't be allowed, but the costumes of fictional Nazis aren't so blatant)

The characters killed people and did terrible things. But you know the Schrodinger or Major or Rip Van cosplayer isn't going to kill you. And yes, you do know that the creep in the Pedobear outfit isn't going to kidnap your children and rape them. But it's a hell of a lot more realistic than the Hellsing cosplayers murdering people. The Big Bad villains with their plans of world domination have refuge in audacity, but Pedobear doesn't.

Plus, Rathany said it well: We want everyone to feel comfortable at Kumoricon. It's three days dedicated to everything that you love, you should feel safe and secure and at home. One person not being able to dress up as a raping bear vs. others sense of security? Sense of security wins every time.

[xxxchihiroxxx]

Thanks Rathany :3 you covered some good points as well

and Blackjack, yes it would and I dont think a Nazi character would be aloud at the con eather, unless perhaps they were mocking the Nazi and what not but even then I'm not sure (I'm not staff after all)

And no Pedo related topics should not be discussed on a PG-13 bored, while used in others by the Kumoricon standerds that deals a LOT with young kids Pedo is a big NO NO we actualy shouldnt be talking about it now... Its also really how you talk about it and how long you do, a quick joke that perhaps a kid not might understand could be slipped by with out much thought but a whole discusion dedicated to a movie about Pedo? no. Consider that perhaps a movie dedicated about a Pedo would be rated R? as uposed to it just dealing with it slightly like maybe an episode of CSI where the crimnal happens to be a Pedo but they dont go far into what he DOES just that he is.

[Rathany]

But I'm saying that a cosplayer of a Nazi character would raise a hell of a lot more red flags with the general populace than "someone dressed as a bear" if the picture appeared in the paper. Everyone knows what Nazis are. Very few people who don't go online know what Pedobear is.

We are not talking about general populace.  We are talking about our attendees.  

Also, is this theoretical situation okay:

Man walks down street full of general populace full of kids.  They swarm to him and someone takes pics.  These pics wind up on the internet and these innocent kids are now in pics where the implication is that the bear is about to try to do bad things to them

A picture with PedoBear even looking at kids is by it's very nature not innocent.  

Darnnit, according to forum rules about PG-13 we should have even be discussing Pedo-things.  The reason the other thread got yanked was due to discussion of Pedo activities on a PG-13 board.  Maybe 'if the name of your character cannot be said in a PG-13 setting, then NO' might be a good place to start with the rule.

You can't even *SAY* "pedo" in a pg-13 setting? I'm positive you can, otherwise those Movies of the Week wouldn't be rated PG-13 and those often deal with a hell of a lot worse.

In the movies of the week there is also a different context.  This is why movies go from PG-13 to R these says if people are smoking and it is not an historical film.  

Though, my statement is questionable.  What is PG-13 and what is not is subjective.  There was a recent movie about how messed up and inconsistant ratings systems are.  We may need to spend alot of time making more precise forum rules.  Just give us some time, ok?  It would be kid of silly for this board to make a bunch of rules if the next wants to change them.  I don't want to pass problems onto the next board, but it might make more sense to leave it to them.  

In the meantime, Blackjack, if you, personally, are having trouble understanding my statement, let me know and I will try to arrange a time for us to talk about this.  

[edited because I am tired and make stupid spelling mistakes when i am tired]

[JeffT]

PedoBear as a franchise exists for the sole purpose of glamorizing child molestation as a spectacle.

Movies and anime featuring nazis as villians or even protagonists typically do not glorify nazism, racism, or genocide.

It's not just the representation that matters, but its context in the franchise.

[XFD]

In reading the posts here, I think there is a perception divide about what Kumoricon is about.

I read the side who is pro-pedo-bear costume knows that the gimmik is a ridiculous joke on 4chan. They perceive the running gag as a component of the fan culture and group it in the same vein as OS-tans, internet memes and the like. They know that there is far more chance that the person cosplaying PB is along for the joke of it and shares a common theme of fandom, usually 4chan. So Kumoricon is an event for the fans, so things the fans enjoy should be fine especially when they see other kinds of cosplayers in similar tones.

The other side is the con Covering their Butts; the convention isn't just for existing fans, but for parents of little fans. It's a very general audience venture so jokes and gimmiks that exist inside of the fandom aren't seen with their intent, only the black-and-white context of the joke which is often exceptionally crude and unfunny (Think "bi*** get back in the kitchen and make me some chicken pot pie!" you are likely to get the joke, but tell that to a woman off the street and you'll probably have some painful experiences). Because of this, the staff have to dilute some aspects of the fandom to make it 'edible.' So it then isn't an event for *the* fans, but it's an event for the public where the fans are the bulk of the attendees.


That's my readings of this anyway. Personally I'm divided, I get #2 but have mixed feelings about becoming so generic with who the event is aimed at, that it loses it's identity. We're still small enough (not for long though T_T) that with #2 we still are in touch with #1; it's that balance which is difficult.

[Teuvan]

Personally I was very happy that pedobear was banned. (its personal, dont ask. Id rather keep my oppinions to my self on the forum. Message me if you want personal oppinions)

I do know of another costume as well that was banned, but that was a huge dress code violation. A young lady dressed as Nyu/Lucy from Elfen Lied wasnt wearing enough bandages to be deemed public.

Tears. I am crying tears of regret for not having seen this. See my avatar for the reason why.

[Rathany]

In reading the posts here, I think there is a perception divide about what Kumoricon is about.

I read the side who is pro-pedo-bear costume knows that the gimmik is a ridiculous joke on 4chan. They perceive the running gag as a component of the fan culture and group it in the same vein as OS-tans, internet memes and the like. They know that there is far more chance that the person cosplaying PB is along for the joke of it and shares a common theme of fandom, usually 4chan. So Kumoricon is an event for the fans, so things the fans enjoy should be fine especially when they see other kinds of cosplayers in similar tones.

The other side is the con Covering their Butts; the convention isn't just for existing fans, but for parents of little fans. It's a very general audience venture so jokes and gimmiks that exist inside of the fandom aren't seen with their intent, only the black-and-white context of the joke which is often exceptionally crude and unfunny (Think "bi*** get back in the kitchen and make me some chicken pot pie!" you are likely to get the joke, but tell that to a woman off the street and you'll probably have some painful experiences). Because of this, the staff have to dilute some aspects of the fandom to make it 'edible.' So it then isn't an event for *the* fans, but it's an event for the public where the fans are the bulk of the attendees.


That's my readings of this anyway. Personally I'm divided, I get #2 but have mixed feelings about becoming so generic with who the event is aimed at, that it loses it's identity. We're still small enough (not for long though T_T) that with #2 we still are in touch with #1; it's that balance which is difficult.

Well, there are ways to deal with this divide.  We DO have adult-only content.  If people want 18+ Cosplay Events, Art Shows, meetups, etc, this can be done.  We just need people willing to run them.  *hinthint*  And, well, we need more of our awesome Yojis to check IDs and keep the kiddies away.

In truth, we try to play to many audiences.  Kids, teens, adults, parents.  Also, anime fans, lolis, goth lolis, jpop fans, live action fans, free-sake-tasting fans, even those freaky people who like to play Go.   We can have balance, as long as people are being jerks about it and are respectfull of the fact that we do need to cover our butts and protect minors. 

I'd love to see us have more 18+ (and 21+) programming. 

[BlackjackGabbiani]

But I'm saying that a cosplayer of a Nazi character would raise a hell of a lot more red flags with the general populace than "someone dressed as a bear" if the picture appeared in the paper. Everyone knows what Nazis are. Very few people who don't go online know what Pedobear is.

We are not talking about general populace.  We are talking about our attendees.  

"Our attendees" get it though. People earlier were talking about "if the pictures wound up in the paper", which IS the general populace.

Also, is this theoretical situation okay:

Man walks down street full of general populace full of kids.  They swarm to him and someone takes pics.  These pics wind up on the internet and these innocent kids are now in pics where the implication is that the bear is about to try to do bad things to them

Yes. Yes it is. Because it's in perception rather than intent. Someone in a costume is not the source of the costume and I would really hope that the people here would get that.

[Deviant Spider]

Personally I was very happy that pedobear was banned. (its personal, dont ask. Id rather keep my oppinions to my self on the forum. Message me if you want personal oppinions)

I do know of another costume as well that was banned, but that was a huge dress code violation. A young lady dressed as Nyu/Lucy from Elfen Lied wasnt wearing enough bandages to be deemed public.

Tears. I am crying tears of regret for not having seen this. See my avatar for the reason why.

LOL. Agreed. I also dressed as Lucy with long hair. Love the anime. And the Manga actually. As graphic as it might be.

[XFD]

Well, there are ways to deal with this divide.  We DO have adult-only content.  If people want 18+ Cosplay Events, Art Shows, meetups, etc, this can be done.  We just need people willing to run them.  *hinthint*  And, well, we need more of our awesome Yojis to check IDs and keep the kiddies away.

In truth, we try to play to many audiences.  Kids, teens, adults, parents.  Also, anime fans, lolis, goth lolis, jpop fans, live action fans, free-sake-tasting fans, even those freaky people who like to play Go.   We can have balance, as long as people are being jerks about it and are respectfull of the fact that we do need to cover our butts and protect minors. 

I'd love to see us have more 18+ (and 21+) programming. 

Every time I try to think up a means to gradiate the attendees for difference groups it always comes up with holes. With this kind of thing I suck and would just suggest if people want their cake and be able to eat it they should make a 16+ or 18+ only convention, or find facilities which offer 3 usable building spaces: 1 for general con (games, video rooms, etc), 2. dealer room, 3. 17+/18+/whatever for all the relevant stuff. Each solution comes with some nasty problems though

And as far as people who run the oddball panels... eh I'm not very diverse in what I can host.

[Rathany]

Well, there are ways to deal with this divide.  We DO have adult-only content.  If people want 18+ Cosplay Events, Art Shows, meetups, etc, this can be done.  We just need people willing to run them.  *hinthint*  And, well, we need more of our awesome Yojis to check IDs and keep the kiddies away.

In truth, we try to play to many audiences.  Kids, teens, adults, parents.  Also, anime fans, lolis, goth lolis, jpop fans, live action fans, free-sake-tasting fans, even those freaky people who like to play Go.   We can have balance, as long as people are being jerks about it and are respectfull of the fact that we do need to cover our butts and protect minors. 

I'd love to see us have more 18+ (and 21+) programming. 

Every time I try to think up a means to gradiate the attendees for difference groups it always comes up with holes. With this kind of thing I suck and would just suggest if people want their cake and be able to eat it they should make a 16+ or 18+ only convention, or find facilities which offer 3 usable building spaces: 1 for general con (games, video rooms, etc), 2. dealer room, 3. 17+/18+/whatever for all the relevant stuff. Each solution comes with some nasty problems though

And as far as people who run the oddball panels... eh I'm not very diverse in what I can host.

We've done pretty well with having PG-13 space and 18+ space I think.  I do think that 18+ cons are a good idea, though.  Yaoi-con is 18+ for, well, obvious reasons.  Though, even there we can't have nakkie men running through the halls as it's public space. 

Public space and not freaking out the hotel are both things we need to consider.  On an mailing list for con organizers some people were talking about 2 months back about how the hotel freaked over content a panel alledgely had and not only can they not renew thier contract at that venue, they have been blacklisted from every hotel in the city.  Last I heard the con had no options but to shut down.  Kcon so far has a very good relationship with the hotels in Portland we need to preserve that.  We get known as trouble makers and if we are lucky we only need to deal with paying more for venuew space.  If we are unlucky ...  This isn't just an issue of how big the con is getting.  If we were smaller we'd be even more vulnerable to certain problems. 

[superjaz]

i too am happy that it was banned, I firmly belive some things should not be joked about

[XFD]

We've done pretty well with having PG-13 space and 18+ space I think.  I do think that 18+ cons are a good idea, though.  Yaoi-con is 18+ for, well, obvious reasons.  Though, even there we can't have nakkie men running through the halls as it's public space. 

Public space and not freaking out the hotel are both things we need to consider.  On an mailing list for con organizers some people were talking about 2 months back about how the hotel freaked over content a panel alledgely had and not only can they not renew thier contract at that venue, they have been blacklisted from every hotel in the city.  Last I heard the con had no options but to shut down.  Kcon so far has a very good relationship with the hotels in Portland we need to preserve that.  We get known as trouble makers and if we are lucky we only need to deal with paying more for venuew space.  If we are unlucky ...  This isn't just an issue of how big the con is getting.  If we were smaller we'd be even more vulnerable to certain problems. 

That actually sounds suspiciously like AX some years ago where a dealer sold some "questionable" goods to a minor and got the whole lot in trouble. Granted, AX is a terrible convention  

When I mention 18+ con, I don't mean pr0n only, but space which is less sensitive to the mediums which the fans choose to express (language, wear, etc).

Another point which just crossed my mind with respect to the news paper example is that the media will blow anything they can out of proportion wherever possible. If it isn't the end of the world, it isn't going to sell. "Teddy bear with a group of kids" (what it appears to a normie) will be sold to the masses as, "Japanese cartoon convention promotes pedophilia with mascot" or something similar. When you're trying to keep a large event going with the traditional masses looming your perimiter you have to tread very carefully lest you step on a landmine

edit:

i too am happy that it was banned, I firmly belive some things should not be joked about

You have to be very careful with this thinking. If what you think has more validity than what someone else thinks, does this mean that some other person still has more validity than you do? It's one thing for a convention which has a staff/board/comittee to create policy, but in general you have to accept that what you believe doesn't mean it's any more right than what I believe; its the social contract of our system which permits dissenting thoughts and allows satire of every-day situations (good or not).

[reppy]

People freak out about pedophilia, rightfully so.  If word gets out a few people dressed up like Nazis at a convention, there'd be some ruffled feathers, but I seriously doubt there'd be too grave a concern. HOWEVER, if word gets out that there's "pedophiles" at a convention, even if it's just a joke, you can rest assured that convention will have a hard time renting a place in that area again.

[Rathany]

We've done pretty well with having PG-13 space and 18+ space I think.  I do think that 18+ cons are a good idea, though.  Yaoi-con is 18+ for, well, obvious reasons.  Though, even there we can't have nakkie men running through the halls as it's public space. 

Public space and not freaking out the hotel are both things we need to consider.  On an mailing list for con organizers some people were talking about 2 months back about how the hotel freaked over content a panel alledgely had and not only can they not renew thier contract at that venue, they have been blacklisted from every hotel in the city.  Last I heard the con had no options but to shut down.  Kcon so far has a very good relationship with the hotels in Portland we need to preserve that.  We get known as trouble makers and if we are lucky we only need to deal with paying more for venuew space.  If we are unlucky ...  This isn't just an issue of how big the con is getting.  If we were smaller we'd be even more vulnerable to certain problems. 

That actually sounds suspiciously like AX some years ago where a dealer sold some "questionable" goods to a minor and got the whole lot in trouble. Granted, AX is a terrible convention  

When I mention 18+ con, I don't mean pr0n only, but space which is less sensitive to the mediums which the fans choose to express (language, wear, etc).

Another point which just crossed my mind with respect to the news paper example is that the media will blow anything they can out of proportion wherever possible. If it isn't the end of the world, it isn't going to sell. "Teddy bear with a group of kids" (what it appears to a normie) will be sold to the masses as, "Japanese cartoon convention promotes pedophilia with mascot" or something similar. When you're trying to keep a large event going with the traditional masses looming your perimiter you have to tread very carefully lest you step on a landmine

The 18+ space isn't just about prons.  It's about anything that is not good for the PG-13 space.  We want to flush things out into a full adult track of programming that is alot more than just prons.  However, this, like many things, comes down to having more people who want to do the work.  

Also, with what you said about the media, there is nothing more dangerous than a slow news day.  Maybe it's good that we are later than most cons and closer to elections?  

[CharlotteElbourne]

I'm scared that Kumoricon would get shut down ;_;

My personal opinion is that there should be a list of costumes that are deemed inappropriate for the convention that violate a pg-13 rating. Others that violate a few rules might have to be adjusted so that the costume doesn't break any of them...

What we could do, if possible, is have a forum where people post their planned costumes and post pictures of the costume/character and have the officials of the convention decide if they would be accepted or not. They could say if they don't want it there, or give advice to help modify it to where it would be accepted. Or they could send their planned costume pictures to an official and receive private messages from them to avoid flames on the forums if it might happen.

And if someone is joking/telling others that they will plan on being a banned character/inappropriate character on the forums, the IP address's are logged and they can be reported and traced back to the individuals home/workplace, can't they? Their badges could be pulled for that convention unless they appeal it and come to the con without the costume. Plus we could have more staff check for inappropriate outfits and have stricter rules about them. Like they would have to change or leave the convention space for the day...

These are just my ideas ^^;

[Teuvan]

i too am happy that it was banned, I firmly belive some things should not be joked about

I firmly believe that everything should be joked about.

[Teepet]

Just to add to the nazi vs. pb debate: Neo-Nazis and the like have rights in this country.  Pedophiles, not so much.  I think I might've seen a Nazi-ish cosplay this year when I was rushing through the reg area, I definitely saw a costume out of the corner of my eye and heard someone talking about how Nazis are hot (wtf, really?  For some reason that convo caught my attention). 

[koru-kun]

i too am happy that it was banned, I firmly belive some things should not be joked about

I firmly believe that everything should be joked about.

indeed. PB is funny, the subject may not be, but PB himself is.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

Just to add to the nazi vs. pb debate: Neo-Nazis and the like have rights in this country.  Pedophiles, not so much. 

Actually, it's perfectly legal to be a pedophile. Just not to *act* on it.

[Serika]

Speaking as someone who's a little "out of the loop" with anime (which I think is kind of good in this situation, but ah well)...

Let's look at the Pedobear cosplay vs the nazi cosplay I saw sometime during the con. 

I know who pedobear is, I know who cosplayed him, we are sort of friends/acquaintances.  I thought the joke was hilarious.  I had no issue with it.  Anyone covering Kumoricon who snaps a picture with a giant bear is going to think one of the following things...

A) He's a giant cuddly teddy bear.
B) He's a furry.
C) He's an internet meme.

With A!  There's no problem with that whatsoever.  If it's portrayed as being cuddly in the article, it's cuddly.  Congrats, K-con is kid-friendly and entertaining to kids. 
B! Furries are a little different.  While I am pretty sure most of them are very good, wholesome people (exchanged a few words with one while waiting in line, she seemed nice and friendly enough), furries generally are not known for being kind people.  Often, they are considered below people.  I'm sure any article talking about this would reference the CSI episode at least once, and at least one...interviewee might say how all furries are sex-crazed homosexual animal abusers.  Or at least, to a lesser extent.  The idea would be there.  If we didn't want this image though, all furry costumes would need to be banned... This doesn't affect me in any way, but it's still unfair to the majority that doesn't go around kidnapping sheep and whatnot. 
C! First off, the reporter will need to know the joke to recognize that Pedobear is, indeed, a pedophile.  And here's the thing... If they know the joke, chances arre they will know that it is, indeed, a JOKE.  It seems VERY unlikely to me that any random reporter on the street is going to recognize a bear as being a pedophile and think they're serious.  Of course, I'm not involved in the news world too much, but really, use some common sense here.  While it is very possible this idea could be brought up, the ONLY WAY the reporter could identify the bear as being a pedophile was if s/he knew it was a JOKE. 

Now, for the nazi whatsits.  I haven't watched any anime involving nazis, and seeing a cosplayer dressed like this made me do a double take and disturbed me a little.  I recognized it was a character since there was a skirt and all that good stuff, but honestly, this DID BOTHER ME. 

How many ways can news reporters see a nazi character at an anime convention?

A) They're an anime character. 
B) They're an anime character promoting genocide, interracting with a fairly large group of younger, impressionable people, possibly off-con space in the park...

Can you see where this is going? 

The nazi costume I saw was well made, what I did notice of it.  Regardless, it was still shocking and...as I've said, a little disturbing. 


Someone else has mentioned random people on the street recognizing this and that, and...okay.  EVERYONE EVERYONE EVERYONE knows who the nazis are, and can identify them by their swastika arm bands (which was how I recoginzed them).  Someone who sees a full-sized bear walking around an anime convention most likely won't think of the meme at first!  They'll think "Oh, there goes a furry." I KNOW that if I hadn't known this person was going to be pedobear beforehand, that's what I would have thought, and while I don't frequent 4chan, I do go on Encyclopedia Dramatica a lot.  I know the character, I've seen the pictures, and even then it wouldn't have registered. 


...so yeah there's my two cents

[Daxe]

Im just curious... is this the nazi everyone is talking about?

[Serika]

Im just curious... is this the nazi everyone is talking about?
[PICTURE!]

I don't know about anyone else, but no, the person I saw was female and wearing tan/olive colors.

[TanisNikana]

I believe that everyone here understands that no one's opinion on the subject will change, and that the only opinion that matters, that of Altonimbus Entertainment, will not change.

This does not need to be discussed any further.

[AnimeMatrix]

I believe that everyone here understands that no one's opinion on the subject will change, and that the only opinion that matters, that of Altonimbus Entertainment, will not change.

This does not need to be discussed any further.

Nominated, and seconded.

[JeffT]

Due to at least one inappropriate post, and things starting to spiral out of control, I have had to lock this thread. It might be re-opened in the future.

[JeffT]

I've unlocked it, and discussion can continue, but please remember, keep it civil. This thread itself is not inappropriate, just a bit of the discussion that was happening shortly before the lock was (some of this was removed). There's good discussion here so I wanted to give that a chance to continue.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

Well, it'd be nice to see a more complete list of what you consider inappropiate costumes, and open that for discussion. Especially since this came down to a specific character who would only be inappropiate if the viewer had knowledge of the character rather than what the character looks/dresses like.

I know some cons banned costumes like Kekko Kamen because the character is naked and most cosplayers wear skin-colored body suits, but to me a body suit is still sufficient coverage. The appearence of nudity isn't the same as actual nudity, after all.

[TanisNikana]

I believe that everyone here understands that no one's opinion on the subject will change, and that the only opinion that matters, that of Altonimbus Entertainment, will not change.

This does not need to be discussed any further.

Requoting myself as to note that the contents of my quote are not to be underestimated.

[Rathany]

Well, it'd be nice to see a more complete list of what you consider inappropiate costumes, and open that for discussion. Especially since this came down to a specific character who would only be inappropiate if the viewer had knowledge of the character rather than what the character looks/dresses like.

I know some cons banned costumes like Kekko Kamen because the character is naked and most cosplayers wear skin-colored body suits, but to me a body suit is still sufficient coverage. The appearence of nudity isn't the same as actual nudity, after all.

As has been said before.  Since this cosplayer decided to push the issue, clearer rules will need to be made.  Soon, we will have a new board.  I do no think it is appropriate for this Board to do rules revisions at this time.  I don't want to push work onto the new Board, but I feel that it is the only appropriate course of action. 

We did not want to have to make these rules revisions, as they may technically ban cosplays we have had no problems with.  But, the issue has been forced. 

[ZombieFace]

As has been said before.  Since this cosplayer decided to push the issue, clearer rules will need to be made. 

Firstly, thank you for unlocking the thread. It's obvious that clearer rules do need to be made.
Secondly, I wore my costume with the intent to have fun and such.  I proudly wore it under the assumption that if people from the con had an issue, they would assign a yojimbo or tell me to only wear it to the 18+ panels, or after minors were no longer permitted.. Instead i was told to "remove my costume or the police would be called".

I fully support the decision of Kumoricon in the sense that they have the right to tell whoever what not to wear on convention space.  But it is a slippery slope if you don't allow a bear costume with pervasive undertones, what else is not allowed.  That is why I started this thread, because I believe I am not alone in wanting to know.

I am very displeased with how the staff handled the matter. That is my main beef.  It is a costume of a popular internet meme that should be joked about. I will quote Teuvan on the most awesome advice I have heard in a long, long time. "I firmly believe that everything should be joked about."

Please note that I have all the communications between myself and the staff and have also recorded conversations on camera with people about these events. I just want to know what is allowed and not allowed at Kumoricon.

So far it's:

Banned
1. PedoBear
2. Nyuu (Lucy) from Elfen Lied



I miss any? Please continue on with this list if so.  Also, if you wish to discuss these issues talked about in depth with me, please send me an email, I will gladly discuss it there. Let's keep this thread on topic as much as we can. XD  I posted my costume that was banned, hope that's okay.

[valliegirl]

Secondly, I wore my costume with the intent to have fun and such.  I proudly wore it under the assumption that if people from the con had an issue, they would assign a yojimbo or tell me to only wear it to the 18+ panels, or after minors were no longer permitted.. Instead i was told to "remove my costume or the police would be called".

Ok, there's something I want to add to this because it has been bothering me.  The day you were wearing the costume, which I assume was Saturday (all the days are just blurring together for me), a person in your group came up to me at info desk to complain.  This person stated that you were being given a hard time by Yojimbo for being "pedobear" when really you weren't here with the intention of being "pedobear".  Your costume was a real character from a real anime, and he listed it, but I don't remember exactly what was referenced.  I pointed this individual to the Yojimbo office, because this issue was not something I had power over.

But you were pedobear.  You knew what you were doing, and you knew people might take issue with it.  And when stuff started hitting the fan, people with you started lying to members of staff in an effort to convince us to not have your costume banned.

When you wear a risky cosplay or premeditate to do something that people at the convention may take issue with, BE PREPARED FOR THE CONSEQUENCES. 

So, take this and learn from it, and know that those on the board definitely will as well.

[ZombieFace]

Secondly, I wore my costume with the intent to have fun and such.  I proudly wore it under the assumption that if people from the con had an issue, they would assign a yojimbo or tell me to only wear it to the 18+ panels, or after minors were no longer permitted.. Instead i was told to "remove my costume or the police would be called".

Ok, there's something I want to add to this because it has been bothering me.  The day you were wearing the costume, which I assume was Saturday (all the days are just blurring together for me), a person in your group came up to me at info desk to complain.  This person stated that you were being given a hard time by Yojimbo for being "pedobear" when really you weren't here with the intention of being "pedobear".  Your costume was a real character from a real anime, and he listed it, but I don't remember exactly what was referenced.  I pointed this individual to the Yojimbo office, because this issue was not something I had power over.

But you were pedobear.  You knew what you were doing, and you knew people might take issue with it.  And when stuff started hitting the fan, people with you started lying to members of staff in an effort to convince us to not have your costume banned.

When you wear a risky cosplay or premeditate to do something that people at the convention may take issue with, BE PREPARED FOR THE CONSEQUENCES. 

So, take this and learn from it, and know that those on the board definitely will as well.

XD

this is funny to me because nobody did this "in my group".  In actuality, I was staying on the 7th floor. and AFTER being banned.. maybe an hour or 2 later.. My girlfriend and I rode up the elevators in normal clothes.. and saw the cosplayer in question about ready to ride down.  I said, "PEDOBEAR!" and he gave a 2 thumbs up.. then I said "You better watch it dude, I wore the same costume and they banned me 15minutes from hitting the bottom floor." He shrugged and entered the elevator.. his company he had with him were shocked when I said I was banned.  He had a PedoBear seal of approval with him as well..

After that, my girlfriend and I joked because we envisioned the yojimbos tackling him and beating the crap out of him saying, "WE TOLD YOU ALREADY TO NOT WEAR THAT COSPLAY!"   ...assuming it was me.  ...like you did.

So, no. That was not me. The only group I had with me was my girlfriend and we talked to the head of security for the hotel as well as the program director and 2 other yojimbos.

But thank you for assuming. I don't even know of any bears that look like pedobear from anime.. except the lactating teddy bears from Akira. XD

Sidenote: The hotel staff were very polite! They seemed to enjoy the con goers.

[valliegirl]

Alright, I apologize, there was apparently more than one incident.

[ZombieFace]

Alright, I apologize, there was apparently more than one incident.

Thank you for apologizing.

I can understand the confusion.  That would be like me saying, "That Kairi from Kingdom Hearts came up and called me a name!"  ...and then me trying to describe which one. XD

[Hawkeye]

this is funny to me because nobody did this "in my group".  In actuality, I was staying on the 7th floor. and AFTER being banned.. maybe an hour or 2 later.. My girlfriend and I rode up the elevators in normal clothes.. and saw the cosplayer in question about ready to ride down.  I said, "PEDOBEAR!" and he gave a 2 thumbs up.. then I said "You better watch it dude, I wore the same costume and they banned me 15minutes from hitting the bottom floor." He shrugged and entered the elevator.. his company he had with him were shocked when I said I was banned.  He had a PedoBear seal of approval with him as well.

Please understand one thing with the PedoBear issue at hand.  We (meaning the staff and moderators) had clearly stated that ANYONE wearing the PedoBear costume or anything that could be taken as PedoBear would be instructed to remove it via the forums.  We had trained the yojimbo to recognize this issue as stated to us by the directors.  I apologize if any of the squad were particularly rude about how they handled it, but we did have our orders.  Blackjack, remember one thing.  PedoBear may be a supposed "Internet Geek" kind of reference, but 90% of our convention is internet geeks.  Therefore we cannot condone PedoBear in any way, shape, or form out of risk of angering our many attendees.  Let this be an end to the discussion please for all involved, it is starting to get out of hand again.

[ZombieFace]

  Let this be an end to the discussion please for all involved, it is starting to get out of hand again.

Yes, I would like to delve further into the controversial outfits.. and my feelings aside, I think we have been informed well enough that PedoBear was banned..  Do you know of any other cosplay that was under the watchful eye of the staff? Size issues? Lack of clothing? Too risque? Is gore ever a factor that may result in a ban?

[Hawkeye]

  Let this be an end to the discussion please for all involved, it is starting to get out of hand again.

Yes, I would like to delve further into the controversial outfits.. and my feelings aside, I think we have been informed well enough that PedoBear was banned..  Do you know of any other cosplay that was under the watchful eye of the staff? Size issues? Lack of clothing? Too risque? Is gore ever a factor that may result in a ban?

We did have a couple of female cosplays that had to be looked over by me (as the high-ranking female yojimbo) to determine decency standards and were found to be just fine.  Gore can play into a decision if there is enough complaints about the costume in question, but as of yet there have been no bans of gory cosplay to my knowledge.

[Deviant Spider]

In all honesty many costumes could potentially be banned if people were to complain about them. If a convention attendee were to feel uncomfortable about a costume for reasons such as religion, race, etc. (example the Natzi costume) than that cosplayer would be asked to change. At this convention we want our guests to have fun and feel safe. Pedo bear made many people feel uncomfortable so it was banned. I know Hawkeye is watching this so am I correct in assuming that if someone complained about a costume because they did not feel safe or comfortable around the concept that we would ask them to change?

[Rathany]

As I explained above, we had been getting harrasing emails from a congoer planning to dress as pedobead.  He had given us much reason to assume he was going to cause problems.  If you are not the one who was sending harrassing emails to the board, please understand that you exactly fit the description of someone who was intending to cause the sorts of problems that we cannot allow at our convention. 

If not for this other person, things would have played out differently.  Yojis has been breifed to look out for someone fitting your description and to get them out of con space before they cause problems. 

It sounds like you got caught in the middle of this situation a bit, and I am sorry for that.

I udnerstand the thought that everything should be joked about.  You should see the shock on people's faces for the way we joke about my friend's traumatic brain injury and partial lobectomy.  Just because people joke about it does not mean they realize that it is serious.  My friend would have half a mind to tell you herself.  However, there is an issue of appropriate time and place.  After some forum posts we got alot of feedback via emails, personal messages, and even some phone calls from people saying this this cosplay would make them deeply uncomfortable and upset. 

[eta]
The friend in question is fully mentally capable and instigates all this.  Sorry, I forget that some people might think I was talking about making fun of someone.  I have gotten very used to the idea that people can walk around missing 1/4 or 1/2 of thier brain and be ok.  She is a volunteer with the con. 

[XFD]

we joke about my friend's traumatic brain injury and partial lobectomy.  Just because people joke about it does not mean they realize that it is serious.  My friend would have half a mind to tell you herself.

Was this a pun fatality?!

[MistressLegato]

I don't believe that anyone can honestly be of the belief that pedobear should be allowed because "only internet geeks know about it."  I knew about pedobear from friends before I knew what 4chan was.

I also wouldn't be comfortable taking my nephews to a con with pedobears (even though, I personally would get my picture taken with him for the lulz).

I don't know why Nyuu broke the roles because when I saw her her bandages covered everything the was necessary in the booklet, but I suppose the bandages may have slipped!

I'm curious to know about the nude suit, since we're figuring out what is banned versus acceptable.  I remember a girl cosplaying as a "nude" Eternal Sailor Moon and was told to change out of the costume because it was unacceptable, even though it was a full suit.

[kurosakiichigo666]

I just want to give my opinion on the whole Nazi thing. As someone who comes from a strong Jewish background, I would be EXTREMELY offended if ANYONE cosplayed as a Nazi. The only exception for me would be if they were from Hellsing or something, but only because I like that anime, but even then I would still be a little put off. But I would definitely say something to someone if anybody cosplayed as a straight-up, non-anime Nazi.

[MistressLegato]

I just want to give my opinion on the whole Nazi thing. As someone who comes from a strong Jewish background, I would be EXTREMELY offended if ANYONE cosplayed as a Nazi. The only exception for me would be if they were from Hellsing or something, but only because I like that anime, but even then I would still be a little put off. But I would definitely say something to someone if anybody cosplayed as a straight-up, non-anime Nazi.

I SECOND this.  The anime Nazi thing still weirds me out, too.

[EveofAbyss]

I think that upon the rare instance that someone cosplays a Nazi character, they aren't doing it because that person is a Nazi, they are doing it because they relate to some other aspect of the character, or like the character. I'd hope anyway that there were no neo-Nazi cosplayers around this year, or ever. I saw the cosplayer in question on the last day and, honestly, was not surprised. I have seen enough WWII era anime for me to immediately understand the costume's presence, but it still has to be held to the same standard as every other costume. If an outsider were to see someone dressed as a Nazi, there would be no second glances, double takes or chances for a formal introduction. The con would already have the negative connotations and assumptions related to Nazi beliefs, most likely.

[ZombieFace]

As someone who comes from a strong Jewish background, I would be EXTREMELY offended if ANYONE cosplayed as a Nazi. The only exception for me would be if they were from Hellsing or something, but only because I like that anime

When it comes to definie what is acceptable and unacceptable it seems that the views of patrons involved only construes things even further.  
I can see why that would offend you.. but 'if t were from Hellsing' making it okay makes no sense.  The staff at Kumoricon can not say, "Well, SOMEBODY may find this offensive so let's not allow it."  
Because like I said in the beginning, this is a slippery slope.. My main example when being told it was unacceptable was that I also cosplayed Pyramid Head.. and he is a Murdering Rapist... Yet widely accepted. Pyramid Head always know what time it is.
I know the KCon staff have some very tough choices and I'm sure some of their choices and bullying is not of their own will. I know that nearly every time somebody confronted me about the PedoBear costume, there was another staff member apologizing because they felt it was a bit silly.
I wish we could have photos of the banned costumes. that would really sum things up.. i bet that would also cause problems because people would find similiar cosplay afrom the con and say, "well, you accepted this one"

[EveofAbyss]

^ The photos are a good idea. Like, I know Pedobear, but I looked up pictures of Nyuu/Lucy and couldn't find anything that looked even remotely problematic. So, was it an alternate outfit or something? I don't know anything about the show.

[MistressLegato]

There were also some Bible Black cosplays and that is deemed as okay, despite being from a hentai.

The whole, trying to follow PG-13 rules is kind of problematic . . . I can see where staff would have a lot of trouble deciding why to allow Pyramid Head (woot!) and not allowing other things.

[shademalek]

^ The photos are a good idea. Like, I know Pedobear, but I looked up pictures of Nyuu/Lucy and couldn't find anything that looked even remotely problematic. So, was it an alternate outfit or something? I don't know anything about the show.

Was that really banned? I thought they just made her check her bandages and make sure everything was coverred due to some slippage. This is all hearsay mind you. =P

[Deviant Spider]

^ The photos are a good idea. Like, I know Pedobear, but I looked up pictures of Nyuu/Lucy and couldn't find anything that looked even remotely problematic. So, was it an alternate outfit or something? I don't know anything about the show.

one of the more popular cosplays of nyuu are of a naked girl just wrapped in bandages covering her body stratigically. the problem was that our convention wants 60% of your body covered and her bandages could have been transparent or not enough in general.

[ZombieFace]

I love Elfen Lied and am *__* when I see a Nyuu.. Here is one of my favorites.

[kurosakiichigo666]

As someone who comes from a strong Jewish background, I would be EXTREMELY offended if ANYONE cosplayed as a Nazi. The only exception for me would be if they were from Hellsing or something, but only because I like that anime

When it comes to definie what is acceptable and unacceptable it seems that the views of patrons involved only construes things even further. 
I can see why that would offend you.. but 'if t were from Hellsing' making it okay makes no sense.

I never said "if it were from Hellsing then it would be OK". If what I said implied that then I apologize, let me clarify. If it's a Nazi from Hellsing or some other anime with Nazis', then I would be less offended and put-off. Also, I wouldn't do anything about it since it's from an anime and Kumoricon is an anime convention after all. In fact, if it was a Hellsing Nazi, then I probably wouldn't care at all since the villians in Hellsing are almost as badass as the main characters and I can understand someone cosplaying as them. And it does make sense to think it's OK if it's from Hellsing because the reasons for the costume are different. If someone is cosplaying as Major Rip Van Winkle, then obviously the person thinks that character is totally boss, which I agree with, she is. However, if someone was cosplaying Hitler, then obviously they are either a Neo-Nazi, or they are doing it just to offend someone, and they would succeed spectacularly.

[Teuvan]

As someone who comes from a strong Jewish background, I would be EXTREMELY offended if ANYONE cosplayed as a Nazi. The only exception for me would be if they were from Hellsing or something, but only because I like that anime

When it comes to definie what is acceptable and unacceptable it seems that the views of patrons involved only construes things even further. 
I can see why that would offend you.. but 'if t were from Hellsing' making it okay makes no sense.

I never said "if it were from Hellsing then it would be OK". If what I said implied that then I apologize, let me clarify. If it's a Nazi from Hellsing or some other anime with Nazis', then I would be less offended and put-off. Also, I wouldn't do anything about it since it's from an anime and Kumoricon is an anime convention after all. In fact, if it was a Hellsing Nazi, then I probably wouldn't care at all since the villians in Hellsing are almost as badass as the main characters and I can understand someone cosplaying as them. And it does make sense to think it's OK if it's from Hellsing because the reasons for the costume are different. If someone is cosplaying as Major Rip Van Winkle, then obviously the person thinks that character is totally boss, which I agree with, she is. However, if someone was cosplaying Hitler, then obviously they are either a Neo-Nazi, or they are doing it just to offend someone, and they would succeed spectacularly.

Hitler's a legitimate anime/manga character. Take Osamu Tezuka's manga Adolf, for example.

I mean, who wouldn't want to cosplay this: http://img252.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1205115884718we3.png

Another awesome Nazi character: http://img181.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1198734461827ph9.gif

[kurosakiichigo666]

I don't care if Hitler is a legitimate anime character, it's still incredibly offensive and I doubt many people know about that anime/manga anyways. As for the other guy, .......bah why do I even try, I quit. Every time I say something someone is just gonna contradict me for arguments sake. You wanna cosplay as a Nazi, fine. But don't expect me to not say anything about it. I mean, my great-grandfather was in Auschwitz, and I'm sure at least one person staying in the hotel or just passing by was in WWII or had their lives greatly affected by it and would also be offended by seeing a Swastika on someone's chest, whether they're from Hellsing or not.

[~boogiepop~]

I don't care if Hitler is a legitimate anime character, it's still incredibly offensive and I doubt many people know about that anime/manga anyways. As for the other guy, .......bah why do I even try, I quit. Every time I say something someone is just gonna contradict me for arguments sake. You wanna cosplay as a Nazi, fine. But don't expect me to not say anything about it. I mean, my great-grandfather was in Auschwitz, and I'm sure at least one person staying in the hotel or just passing by was in WWII or had their lives greatly affected by it and would also be offended by seeing a Swastika on someone's chest, whether they're from Hellsing or not.

Sorry Sean that's how forums work. People just argue about everything D: I agree with what you say though. Even though I find most everything hilarious that would hit a point with me seeing as my Dad was born in one of the long lasting concentration camps and such.

[TanisNikana]

Godwin's law, much?

[Prinz Eugen]

A few loose pennies of thought on this topic.

ONE: Law enforcement, including FBI, may be reading this forum. They may be all over 4chan, too. The unfounded belief that "it's only an internet meme, and only the cool kidz who know it's a joke would recognize it" explains why morons who do stupid vandalism, film it with their camera phones, and post clips on their Myspace, then suddenly get surprised when folks with wallet badges visit them (or their parents) with uncomfortable questions or duly deserved charges to press. Kumoricon really doesn't need this sort of baggage.

TWO, relating to ONE: Back in the 80's a bunch of college students invented a game system called 'T.A.G' which stood for 'The Assassination Game.' A list of players would submit their class schedules to a game master who would pair off students for 'hits.' Using water pistols or other creative devices (an envelope with a taut elastic and a button, so that opening the envelope spun the button and made a buzzing sound - was a 'letter bomb,') to rub out players. The game master pared the players down and announced the final survivor. Cool fun, then players started painting their water pistols flat-black. NOT VERY COOL AT ALL when a player gets into the role, shouts "YOU'RE DEAD, SUCKER," at a campus bus stop, draws the realistic-looking water pistol ...

... and gets dropped by REAL bullets by an off-duty cop whose training takes over. This actually happened, and the popularity of 'T.A.G.' absolutely and instantly cratered. (Oh wait, they made a movie called 'Nikita.')

Now what's happening is that people who want to play with prop weapons (honest, innocent, above-board fun) color their props. What then happens is that creepy bent dirtbags spray paint their REAL, toy-looking Glocks in these same silly colors, so they can sneak them into a situation where everyone expects colorful non-functioning toys, and caps people FOR REAL. I'm just waiting for some nut case to bring in a real gun (stolen) to a paintball alley and start whacking out innocent players.

Morale of the story is that when law enforcement skims a forum board or a stream of IM chatter, and they read what *might* be a *credible threat,* they really HAVE to prepare and react. "It's only a joke" gets about as funny as time-bomb 'jokes' would be at the airport. Technically it should be free speech yes, but you gotta admit that that would be quite the bonehead manouver, and you couldn't really be 100% surprised if anyone who has to act as a community custodian (meaning law enforcement, hotel staff, etc) takes a 'joke' seriously. And then the party's really over, because people responsible cannot tell the difference between a joke, versus a very clever person trying to do something *for real* under the best possible cover: "It's only a joke!"

THREE: Just my humble opinion on the Nazi costumes. I didn't see any, but I did see a Jin-Roh character. I haven't seen Jin-Roh, so I would not attribute their Nazi-looking costumes with the evil goals of the actual Nazi party: racial stratification, eugenics, genocide, phrenology, and their weird distortion of Nordic legends to their own fanatic ends. Jin-Roh does equip their infantry with the German MG42 medium machinegun, 8mm x 1200 rd/min fire rate, which as a historical collectible is rather cool. Also why the few real ones available in this day are EXPENSIVE.

If I saw a Nazi costumer at an anime con with no other context, I'd reach and possibly remember URDA (Don't bother watching it - another just-my-opinion) but I'd also wonder whether that person was clueless enough to no know he might make people uneasy - especially people alive today who had uncles and grandparents who were gassed to death. Or shot.

Next, I'd think that the Nazi, when in the company of either a set of other people costumed as known baddies: Hitler among Fidel Castro, Josef Stalin, Pol Pot, etc. or a Waffen SS trooper in the company of peers and adversaries, such as a few Allied soldier cosplayers, Italians (Axis,) Austrians, etc. then the point would be to 'complete the set,' rather than to call attention to one (particularly objectionable) worldview, and in the context of a set, I'd find it less unsettling.

Oh well.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

Godwin's law, much?

Where do you keep getting this from? There are no COMPARASIONS to Nazis or facism any place in this thread, and THAT'S what Godwin's is. Not MENTIONING Nazis in a place where it's suitable to mention them!

Plus I'm sick of that "law" any way. Sometimes a comparasion *is* valid, and the other person shouldn't gleefully decree "you lose! You mentioned Nazis!" with clinging to that stupid insipid "law" as their excuse.



Anyway! What about characters who clearly *aren't* Nazis but have some trappings? Here I'm thinking of the ACROSS members and their salute, even though it's said flat out that Il Palazzo hates Nazis (and pretty much every other form of Earth government too, but he gets pretty riled when someone brings that up in particular). Hell, even Kaede (the character I cosplayed this year) salutes her boss with something that's commonly mistaken for that salute (even though honestly I've never seen a Nazi salute with the arm straight up...but a lot of people seem to think it's the same thing).

And yes, to go back to the initial subject, a hell of a lot more people know what Pyramid Head is and what he does than are familar with the exploits of Pedobear. Is it different because Pyramid Head goes after *adults*?

[TanisNikana]

I lost the game.

[XFD]

words

Well done! (You ran the gunz panel didn't you? )

I think if someone did the nazi gig it'd only be done because of the shock value.

Where do you keep getting this from? There are no COMPARASIONS to Nazis or facism any place in this thread, and THAT'S what Godwin's is. Not MENTIONING Nazis in a place where it's suitable to mention them!

Plus I'm sick of that "law" any way. Sometimes a comparasion *is* valid, and the other person shouldn't gleefully decree "you lose! You mentioned Nazis!" with clinging to that stupid insipid "law" as their excuse.

A way I get around most "ZOMG GODWINGODWINGODWINGODWINGODWIN" is to switch to Stalin-Russia. Quite a bit of the same garbage, different nation. The normies who would default to calling godwin go in to an infitie loop.

[Rathany]

A way I get around most "ZOMG GODWINGODWINGODWINGODWINGODWIN" is to switch to Stalin-Russia. Quite a bit of the same garbage, different nation. The normies who would default to calling godwin go in to an infitie loop.

Also, who can tell me what meme this is?

[Mod Edit - We are not going there.]

That is less well known and doesn't have the specific characteristics of PedoBear.  However, we are going going there.  If this thread starts getting into topics like that fetish I will LOCK this thread.  I am highly tempted to lock this overnight and unlock it when I can babysit it in the morning. 

[Rathany]

A way I get around most "ZOMG GODWINGODWINGODWINGODWINGODWIN" is to switch to Stalin-Russia. Quite a bit of the same garbage, different nation. The normies who would default to calling godwin go in to an infitie loop.

Also, who can tell me what meme this is?

[Mod Edit - We are not going there.]

That is less well known and doesn't have the specific characteristics of PedoBear.  However, we are not going there.  If this thread starts getting into topics like that fetish I will LOCK this thread.  I am highly tempted to lock this overnight and unlock it when I can babysit it in the morning. 

[Ayumu]

Kumoricon is a private organization and can ban whatever it wants. This includes Pedobear, scantily-clad cosplayers, and peanut butter and jelly sandwiches between the hours of 3:14 pm and 7:09 pm. It doesn't matter WHY or how much you disagree. It is what it is, so stop having a fit over it.

[MistressLegato]

Amen.  The pedobear thing is WAY over.  It won't EVER be allowed in most places.

Again, on the Nazi thing, I don't really care how UNOFFENDED people are, there are those of us who are DEEPLY offended with Jewish roots and I think, however selfish it sounds, that that's more important.

You wouldn't go around shouting the N word because it doesn't personally offend you because it offends those around you.

'Nuff said.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

there are those of us who are DEEPLY offended with Jewish roots

And, y'know, everyone ELSE too. People tend to forget that Jews weren't the only victims.

[TanisNikana]

there are those of us who are DEEPLY offended with Jewish roots

And, y'know, everyone ELSE too. People tend to forget that Jews weren't the only victims.

Us handicapped and gay folk, two things that Hitler would have had my nuts for, were also popular targets at the time.

Thankfully I'm not a gypsy.

[Prinz Eugen]

there are those of us who are DEEPLY offended with Jewish roots

And, y'know, everyone ELSE too. People tend to forget that Jews weren't the only victims.

Good reminders. Especialy the take on our 'buddy' Stalin.
Read 'The Gulag Archepelago' to learn how much FUN he was.
Also, my wife is of Lithuanian descent, and if you know about the Rippentrop deal, plus Stalin's purges in the 1940s - about 1/4 or her family were killed outright or carted off to Siberia by rail. *NOT* good times.

- G

[ZombieFace]

Umm. The PedoBear discussion was over a while ago. I see why people go into Nazis and such when it comes to banning things. WHY NOT NAZIS instead of cute bears! and such..
But, back on topic, does anybody remember any costumes that were not allowed from previous years?
Also, this is becoming very heated and dramatic which is not the intent.  I am hoping that this all will help con goers, who go to the forums, define the line that Kumoricon has but does not particularly speak of.
It is a PG13 con.. yet Hentai and R Rated cosplay is allowed.  If you say that, "Well, it's just a costume. It's not as if the cosplayer will act the same as the character.", then i believe I deserve some apologies from some of the people on this thread for calling me names for wanting to wear a PedoBear costume.
I'm sure in just a couple moments you can come up with many different outfits that are from series beyond PG13 that you have seen at KumoriCon.
I fine example of a cosplay that was allowed but not threatened was Panty Thief Happosai, cosplayed by the infamous Chris - formally of Baka Zoku.  With many under 18 teens running around scantily clad most of the time, you'd think KCon would have something to say about this. 

Pic Below is of Panty Thief Happosai

[XFD]

That is less well known and doesn't have the specific characteristics of PedoBear.  However, we are going going there.  If this thread starts getting into topics like that fetish I will LOCK this thread.  I am highly tempted to lock this overnight and unlock it when I can babysit it in the morning. 

The fact that someone knew what that was makes me happy on countless levels; it won't just be the retarded memes, it'll be the genuinely ****** up memes that get the boot too.

[LtCommanderRichie]

And yet Horse Man didn't get the boot? That costume was, according to my lunch lady (who knows the guy under the mask, small world huh?) originally supposed to be PonyStalker of 4chan fame. I understand that Pedobear should/could/had better be friggin' banned, but then why not put the boot on all the animal-themed 4chan memes? They're all just as bad. As XFD said, some of those things can be seriously freaking wierd, disgusting and overall just not child-appropriate.

[Rathany]

And yet Horse Man didn't get the boot? That costume was, according to my lunch lady (who knows the guy under the mask, small world huh?) originally supposed to be PonyStalker of 4chan fame. I understand that Pedobear should/could/had better be friggin' banned, but then why not put the boot on all the animal-themed 4chan memes? They're all just as bad. As XFD said, some of those things can be seriously freaking wierd, disgusting and overall just not child-appropriate.

From Google Image Search:

"Your search - PonyStalker - did not match any documents."

From regular google:

The first result in English gets me this: result.

Either this is ridiculously obscure, or someone was incorrect. 

[XFD]

Didn't someone mention that he was from FMP Fumoffu?

[Teuvan]

And yet Horse Man didn't get the boot? That costume was, according to my lunch lady (who knows the guy under the mask, small world huh?) originally supposed to be PonyStalker of 4chan fame. I understand that Pedobear should/could/had better be friggin' banned, but then why not put the boot on all the animal-themed 4chan memes? They're all just as bad. As XFD said, some of those things can be seriously freaking wierd, disgusting and overall just not child-appropriate.

He's from Full Metal Panic Fumoffu, as a mysterious stalker who's obsessed with ponytails.

[LtCommanderRichie]

Hmm, I could have sworn that the stalker animal meme was PonyStalker... Alright, thank you! Slight faux pas on my part.

Either way, why not ban all of the particularly infamous memes? Not anything like the Rickroll or loosing the game, but the really terrible ones.

Although that makes me wonder how someone would go about doing a 50 Hitler post IRL. The question still stands, though!

[Teuvan]

Hmm, I could have sworn that the stalker animal meme was PonyStalker... Alright, thank you! Slight faux pas on my part.

Either way, why not ban all of the particularly infamous memes? Not anything like the Rickroll or loosing the game, but the really terrible ones.

Although that makes me wonder how someone would go about doing a 50 Hitler post IRL. The question still stands, though!

I would be much more in favor of banning annoying crap like Rickrolling and losing the game. Anyway, exactly who's to decide what qualifies as "really terrible," anyway? And if we're going to worry so thoroughly about potentially offended anyone, why not ban cosplay of really terrible villains? I mean, we have lots of people dressed as murders, dictators, characters responsible for genocide, and so on. I mean, certainly all those Kira's and Aizen's and Sins have done worse things than a cartoon bear. What's the difference between a fictional character spawned from the Internet, and a fictional character spawned from an anime? Hell, let's make things simple, and only allow cosplay of characters from Love Hina. But no Naru; she's too violent. And nothing revealing; everyone has to wear parkas. But we'll still know it's Love Hina, right?

[LtCommanderRichie]

Then why not ban cosplay all together? The point is, there will always be something that offends someone. I get that. But more often than not unless the person knows the series inside and out, they won't look at King Bradley and say that he's responsible for genocide, or Kira for the same thing, they'll just see yet another person in a blue military uniform or a kid with a notebook. Yes the Organization XIII stands for taking the hearts of millions, yes the Order of the Millenium or whatever from Hellsing is a Neo-Nazi organization... But will someone who might otherwise take offense to the ideals behind the costume actually recognize the costume as what it is, then recognize the ideals?

Taking offense depends on the subject matter that any one person is already familiar with. I'm saying, though, on the subject of the terrible memes, to ban the animals that stand for pedophilia and beastiality and all those other non-family-friendly things that people will yell out the names of in the middle of con when they see them.

[MistressLegato]

Please don't be ridiculous and suggest that Kira is as offensive as a Stalin or Hitler costume.  Kira isn't a real murderer, or even a real person.

The pedobear thing is because he promotes the molestation of children.  You'd be out of your mind to think that it should be allowed at a con with children.

Can we please be serious?

[BlackjackGabbiani]

Except that Pedobear is *also* not a real person (or real bear).

[SpearXXI]

Except that Pedobear is *also* not a real person (or real bear).

I thought Pedobear was meant to be an insensitive joke about pedophilia, and Kira was created for a story. Some jokes are better left unsaid depending on the crowd or target audience. Having someone dress up as the Pedobear is not PG-13, which is what Kumoricon wants their con to be. It's just like you won't see dead baby or racist jokes in a pixar movie, because that would be a huge Rubicon, and would not be a good idea. Sure, in certain situations the jokes may be funny, but that does not excuse the joke to be said anywhere/anytime. *shrug*

[~boogiepop~]

And yet Horse Man didn't get the boot? That costume was, according to my lunch lady (who knows the guy under the mask, small world huh?) originally supposed to be PonyStalker of 4chan fame. I understand that Pedobear should/could/had better be friggin' banned, but then why not put the boot on all the animal-themed 4chan memes? They're all just as bad. As XFD said, some of those things can be seriously freaking wierd, disgusting and overall just not child-appropriate.

I just assumed he was imitating the skit Tom Green did with the horse head. That had never even crossed my mind and I'm an avid 4channer.

EDIT: And you guys are getting a little ridiculous. I agree with MistressLagato. Very people may find that cosplaying from Kingdom Hearts or Deathnote is offensive but the anime is being broadcasted on television and the games are getting sold in stores. The cosplays that were talked about earlier aren't being put out to the general public and you have to go searching for it on the internet to figure out what's going on.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

So another character--Akio Ohtori. He's a manipulator, a sexual predator, and given what he did to his sister in the movie, one would think he'd be controversial. But he's not. Why is that?

[ZombieFace]

Except that Pedobear is *also* not a real person (or real bear).

Sure, in certain situations the jokes may be funny, but that does not excuse the joke to be said anywhere/anytime. *shrug*

Not everyone will find a joke funny. you can't please everyone.  In my PedoBear outfit I asked if I could come out at the 18+ events or after hours when minors were not permitted.  I would think that PG13 would not apply.. the answer was FIRMLY.. "NO!"  no budging, no give at all. no negotiations.
Since it seems that the prime example is the innocent looking PedoBear outfit, picture Below, than I will give my opinion on the matter. Being a frequent lurker on the image board where PedoBear is seen often, and thoroughly studying PedoBear for the costume.. I have seen that he only APPEARS when things become questionable.. But never really instigates it.  I'm sure differing opinions may come, but atleast I have the outfit to back up my theory.
I think how questionable content at Kumoricon should be handled is something along the lines of, "Your cosplay is deemed too inappropriate for prime, daytime use.  You may wear it later on when the minors are not around, or not at all."

Am I alone in this, or does the consesus say "NO! A FINE LINE MUST BE DRAWN AND NO NEGOTIATING!"  
Just like when your a child and somebody says, "it is done this way and only this way."  Did you ask, "Why?" or did you just follow orders?

I think talking about things makes more progress then just being barked orders and expected to follow them.. and I believe I made some people uncomfortable at the con trying to ask why and see if there was a mutual solution.

PS: SpearXXI, were you the photographer with the Turks Coffee vest?

[Deviant Spider]

Except that Pedobear is *also* not a real person (or real bear).

Sure, in certain situations the jokes may be funny, but that does not excuse the joke to be said anywhere/anytime. *shrug*

Not everyone will find a joke funny. you can't please everyone.  In my PedoBear outfit I asked if I could come out at the 18+ events or after hours when minors were not permitted.  I would think that PG13 would not apply.. the answer was FIRMLY.. "NO!"  no budging, no give at all. no negotiations.

Ok, think of it this way. 18+ panels are such because of the content the United States declares not fit for minors under 18. Is the idea of pedophilia ok for ANY age? NO. I agree with the con here. If we are going to ban a costume for pedophilia than it needs to be banned all around.

[SpearXXI]

PS: SpearXXI, were you the photographer with the Turks Coffee vest?

No, I only took one photograph at the con, and it was on my cell phone. lol

[XFD]

Ok, think of it this way. 18+ panels are such because of the content the United States declares not fit for minors under 18. Is the idea of pedophilia ok for ANY age? NO. I agree with the con here. If we are going to ban a costume for pedophilia than it needs to be banned all around.

Since pedophilia isn't the act, you're advocating punishment for thought crime. This allows for segregation of anyone who doesn't think with "proper" means. If you think it's limited to people being a pedophile, remember that not too long ago people were big into killing people that might be from a different religion.

That's double-plus ungood

This thread makes me sad, one side refuses to listen to the arguments of a joke and think of it as a real live creature, the other side points out glaring holes in the argument and gets no intelligent feedback or comments (barring one or two).

[ZombieFace]

Ok, think of it this way. 18+ panels are such because of the content the United States declares not fit for minors under 18. Is the idea of pedophilia ok for ANY age? NO. I agree with the con here. If we are going to ban a costume for pedophilia than it needs to be banned all around.

Since pedophilia isn't the act, you're advocating punishment for thought crime.

That's double-plus ungood

This thread makes me sad, one side refuses to listen to the arguments of a joke and think of it as a real live creature, the other side points out glaring holes in the argument and gets no intelligent feedback or comments (barring one or two).

this comment is double-plus good.

orwell ftw.

there was an earlier comment stating i was.." an idiot" and another saying "you do know that the creep in the Pedobear outfit".. I am obviously a horrible person because i dressed as a bear.
I found fanfic art of Card Captor Sakura Kero... Doing inexplicable things!  ...do you see where this is going?

[Horse-Man]

And yet Horse Man didn't get the boot? That costume was, according to my lunch lady (who knows the guy under the mask, small world huh?) originally supposed to be PonyStalker of 4chan fame. I understand that Pedobear should/could/had better be friggin' banned, but then why not put the boot on all the animal-themed 4chan memes? They're all just as bad. As XFD said, some of those things can be seriously freaking wierd, disgusting and overall just not child-appropriate.

*cough cough*

I don't know who your lunch lady is, but Horse Man isn't themed after some stupid 4chan meme.

The original Pony-Stalker came from Full Metal Panic Fumoffu. He gave girls pony tails, and said "pony pony pony"

Horse Man was an accidental costume, that turned into a really fun time for most people involved. Look into a series of short films called "RABBITS" to see where parts of the character came from. Also, Donnie Darko's Frank was inspirational.

Just because I wore a damn horse mask doesn't mean that I was from 4chan. Horse Man is Horse Man, and that's all.

I don't need 4chan to be creative for me.

[ZombieFace]

And yet Horse Man didn't get the boot? That costume was, according to my lunch lady (who knows the guy under the mask, small world huh?) originally supposed to be PonyStalker of 4chan fame. I understand that Pedobear should/could/had better be friggin' banned, but then why not put the boot on all the animal-themed 4chan memes? They're all just as bad. As XFD said, some of those things can be seriously freaking wierd, disgusting and overall just not child-appropriate.

*cough cough*

I don't know who your lunch lady is, but Horse Man isn't themed after some stupid 4chan meme.

The original Pony-Stalker came from Full Metal Panic Fumoffu. He gave girls pony tails, and said "pony pony pony"

Horse Man was an accidental costume, that turned into a really fun time for most people involved. Look into a series of short films called "RABBITS" to see where parts of the character came from. Also, Donnie Darko's Frank was inspirational.

Just because I wore a damn horse mask doesn't mean that I was from 4chan. Horse Man is Horse Man, and that's all.

I don't need 4chan to be creative for me.

*bows to horse man*

[XFD]

I don't know who your lunch lady is, but Horse Man isn't themed after some stupid 4chan meme.

The original Pony-Stalker came from Full Metal Panic Fumoffu. He gave girls pony tails, and said "pony pony pony"

Horse Man was an accidental costume, that turned into a really fun time for most people involved. Look into a series of short films called "RABBITS" to see where parts of the character came from. Also, Donnie Darko's Frank was inspirational.

Just because I wore a damn horse mask doesn't mean that I was from 4chan. Horse Man is Horse Man, and that's all.

I don't need 4chan to be creative for me.

Because I would like to put something positive into this thread, your cosplay confused the crap out of me but was loads of fun. Thanks for being random, its what makes these cons fun for me.

[LtCommanderRichie]

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DID YOU READ THE POSTS AFTER THAT? I already figured out it was from the wrong thing! I was mistaken. No need to get pissy. I said I was sorry.

@ Mistress Legato: I never suggested that Kira was as offensive as Hitler or Stalin. I compared him to another fictional character, and another, and another. I would never DREAM of saying that. There is a very definitive line between real life and fantasy, and some people just get angry when someone cosplays something that stands for a very real issue.

Alright, you know what, I'm out of here. I think we're all basically agreeing here. No Pedobear, keep the con clean, all that.

[Horse-Man]

Sunday night, I walked down to the soda machine in the hotel on our floor, and I didn't have enough change, but I had a five, so I decided to knock on a door where I heard people. I got into character, then knocked. I ended up getting my change, and talking to these people for a while. It led to me talking to people from 3 different rooms. At one point, one of their friends came back from the con, and saw me standing by the room with all the other people staring at his reaction and laughing. He said, "WTF Is this some sort of joke that I just don't get?"

Yes.

That's exactly it.

It was supposed to be funny and random, and it worked well.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

Ok, think of it this way. 18+ panels are such because of the content the United States declares not fit for minors under 18. Is the idea of pedophilia ok for ANY age? NO. I agree with the con here. If we are going to ban a costume for pedophilia than it needs to be banned all around.

The Non-Canon Pairings panel was 18+ and no one can figure out why because we never got into detail nor did we ever intend to.

[ZombieFace]

It was supposed to be funny and random, and it worked well.

My only thing I was really hoping for was to wear my PedoBear costume to the Random Internet Panel that has previously been at KumoriCon.. I saw you Horse Man. It was random and fun. Would you have been upset if people had assumed you were what was mentioned earlier in the thread and said to remove it?

[ZombieFace]

Alright, you know what, I'm out of here. I think we're all basically agreeing here. No Pedobear, keep the con clean, all that.

I think you miss the purpose of this thread. Please go back and reread if necessary.. I find it mildly offensive that you assume that because you are leaving you get to make 'final judgment' on the indirect topic.

apparently this thread is SRS BSNS.


EDIT: Sorry for double post. I'm not very forum elite. XD

[HatakeGirlX]

lol! I just about died when I saw the Pony guy from FMP! xD Then I got freaked out when he walked at me all "Pony pony pony!" cuz I look terrible in pony tails xP

okay on another note i know for sure MANFEY IS BANNED!....or I strongly pray he is... O___O

[Ayumu]

Ack, Horse-Man! I had NO idea what you were from, but you sure creeped me out! (in a good way, hahaha!) Well done 

[Deviant Spider]

Alright, you know what, I'm out of here. I think we're all basically agreeing here. No Pedobear, keep the con clean, all that.

I think you miss the purpose of this thread. Please go back and reread if necessary.. I find it mildly offensive that you assume that because you are leaving you get to make 'final judgment' on the indirect topic.

I posted what I knew of other banned costumes and I am done with this thread too. I added one of the only other banned costumes known to people on this fourm so I believe I followed what this topic origonally stood for. It now seems to continue disscusing Pedo bear and I am done with it as well. This thread just makes me angry now. The idea/concept of pedophilia related cosplays makes me feel sick. I am very open minded about most things but any form of pedophilia (joke, related, etc) is still plain NOT ok. I have MANY reasons for feeling the way I do and NONE of them are your buisness, If this tread does not stop discussing pedo bear I will report it. Jeff allready closed it once for the same reason

[TanisNikana]

Requesting this thread to be locked permanently.

[~boogiepop~]

Requesting this thread to be locked permanently.

Seconding.

[MistressLegato]

If people would get over the pedobear thing already, I think it's a good idea to discuss what is/isn't allowed.  I asked in posts WAY back whether or not nude suits should be banned, but everyone's all up in arms over pedobear that no serious discussion can take place.

Pedobear can't be allowed at night because, as was mentioned earlier, anyone taking a picture of that and affiliating it with the con could get us hella shut down.

[Rathany]

I am going to lock this thread because, really, there is not more to say than has already been said.  It has gotten very off-topic. 

Also, babysitting this thread has been very time consuming for mods.  I, personally, have lots of other con-related work to do.  If someone really feels to need to discuss this further with me, then PM me. 

@Mistress Legato, nude suits seem to be currently ok.  I saw one that kept giving me double takes, though.

At the end of the day, the line between PG-13 and not PG-13 is very subjective.  This is not something we take lightly.  The request for the emailer to not come to our con dressed as PedoBear was not arbitrary.  It was a very involved discussion and the emails were shown to people with police and advanced security training.  One angry parent or media report can end a convention, permanently.  We ask that people work with us to make the con safe and minor friendly, and not against us.  We want adult space, too.  To pull off the balancing act of having child, minor and adult space can only be done if people aren't trying to cross lines that we set. 

We are all unpaid volunteers who do this for the love of it.  We do our best to make this all work.  We try to accomidate as many diverse groups as possible, but we can't be all things to all attendees.

Feel free to PM me if you really feel the need to discuss this further.  Flames, antagonistic messages and questions I feel I have already answered I will ignore. 

I was really happy to see some interesting discussions on this topic.