Author Topic: Crossplay Bathroom?  (Read 28800 times)

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Offline Mister_manji

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #50 on: September 13, 2008, 10:54:27 am »
Yeah, I don't think thats a reasonable expectation to have. We can't exactly re-arrange the hotels layout.
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Offline murder_of_raven

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #51 on: September 13, 2008, 11:46:09 am »
Yeah... I understand if there isn't something set up but I know we had a lot of ideas here on the thread. I don't think we should just give up immediately if there aren't any family bathrooms.

Offline Seraph

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #52 on: September 13, 2008, 04:08:27 pm »
a random thought, is there any restrooms besides the ones in the hotel we may be to use?
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Offline murder_of_raven

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #53 on: September 14, 2008, 03:28:35 am »
a random thought, is there any restrooms besides the ones in the hotel we may be to use?

Eh? If the hotel isn't willing to set aside bathrooms for crossplay use I hardly can imagine a nearby business to.  :-\ we're not even their costumers necessarily.

Offline superjaz

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #54 on: September 14, 2008, 08:13:57 am »
I will check the main lobby for a family bathroom

I was just thinking about that I think it would be the only real chance
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Offline Schlofin

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #55 on: September 14, 2008, 03:29:50 pm »
The only other thing I could think of is if there is a staff room on the floor above the con space (maybe the ops office if it is in a guest room) that the restroom in that room for a crossplay restroom.

Offline kylite

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #56 on: September 14, 2008, 03:43:12 pm »
Definitely not ops, far too many sensitive things go through there to be interrupted for "bathroom breaks"
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Offline TomtheFanboy

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #57 on: September 15, 2008, 02:57:43 pm »
Also, There may be bathrooms in the Exhibitor's Hall section, but I doubt it.
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Offline RemSaverem

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #58 on: September 16, 2008, 10:35:59 pm »
Okay, Runa please don't muzzle me for this, but:
Is it entirely out of the question to consider the cosplay greenroom? (If such has a bathroom?)
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Offline ThiefKingsHier

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #59 on: September 17, 2008, 09:21:16 pm »
slightly off topic, but I felt this picture I took from penguin revolution really shows a crossplayer's dilemma

http://www.geocities.com/janus_97006/crossconfusion.bmp

Calll me ignorant, but I still don't understand the problem. People in crossplay are only DRESSED like the opposite sex.

I always crossplay and I've never even thought twice about it.

So are you talking 'crossplay' or actual 'transgender'?

That makes an enormous difference.

If we are talking transgender, good luck, I'm pretty sure this is not the first time it's been brought up in a public setting.


Offline murder_of_raven

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #60 on: September 18, 2008, 07:15:57 pm »
Calll me ignorant, but I still don't understand the problem. People in crossplay are only DRESSED like the opposite sex.

I always crossplay and I've never even thought twice about it.

So are you talking 'crossplay' or actual 'transgender'?

That makes an enormous difference.

If we are talking transgender, good luck, I'm pretty sure this is not the first time it's been brought up in a public setting.

Umm, well in general we're talking about crossplay, but in specific yes, I am transgender and I know/know of several others who attend Kcon.

And I'm not sure that last part was intended to come off as snarky as it did but as it reads I'm somewhat offended.

Offline ThiefKingsHier

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #61 on: September 18, 2008, 08:38:49 pm »
Calll me ignorant, but I still don't understand the problem. People in crossplay are only DRESSED like the opposite sex.

I always crossplay and I've never even thought twice about it.

So are you talking 'crossplay' or actual 'transgender'?

That makes an enormous difference.

If we are talking transgender, good luck, I'm pretty sure this is not the first time it's been brought up in a public setting.

Umm, well in general we're talking about crossplay, but in specific yes, I am transgender and I know/know of several others who attend Kcon.

And I'm not sure that last part was intended to come off as snarky as it did but as it reads I'm somewhat offended.


As far as crossplay is concerned I really don't understand the problem.

That's too bad, because it wasn't meant to be snarky at all.  I'm a pretty honest person, if I were intentionally trying to offend someone, there would be no question.

It was just an observation; there are many, MANY, special interest groups out there. I would be very surprised if a transgender group had not already brought this up.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2008, 08:46:51 pm by ThiefKingsHier »

Offline Neolucky

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #62 on: September 20, 2008, 07:42:40 pm »
I understand the needs and wants of those who are transgendered, but I'll be frank:

If you're female physically - You go to the ladies room.
If you're male physically - You go to the mens room.

Mentality has little to do with your bodily functions.

I hate to make this so black and white, but seriously, think realistically about this: What hotel will accommodate this? I don't see this ever coming to light and actually being figured out to be honest. I feel it's kind of a waste of time to suggest this, considering explaining it to the facilities alone would be a headache and they too, will not understand the issue.

I personally do not see what the problem is, and will echo ThiefKingsHier here. However I am not ignorant, and very -very- aware of those who are transgendered and have plenty of friends who are. But flat out, if you are physically one or the other, go to the according bathroom and use a stall, or find a private bathroom if you're uncomfortable otherwise. I don't see how not having a transgendered bathroom is discriminatory.

If you find this offensive, then so be it. The intention isn't there but I can't stop others from reading into what I type negatively.

Offline Seraph

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #63 on: September 20, 2008, 08:28:40 pm »
I believe the reason for crossplayers wanting it is sometimes going into the proper restroom(as specificed by their everyday gender) and then get into trouble for supposely going into the "wrong" restroom.  I've read stories where a crossplayer either had to strip/show ID to prove their everyday gender.

The other factor is that while con goers tend to be more open minded, not all of them are so there is a fear of a social attack by such people who may or may not be part of the con.

And is it really so bad for crossplayers to ask for it?
« Last Edit: September 20, 2008, 08:29:19 pm by Seraph »
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Offline Neolucky

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #64 on: September 20, 2008, 09:56:41 pm »
I believe the reason for crossplayers wanting it is sometimes going into the proper restroom(as specificed by their everyday gender) and then get into trouble for supposely going into the "wrong" restroom.  I've read stories where a crossplayer either had to strip/show ID to prove their everyday gender.

The other factor is that while con goers tend to be more open minded, not all of them are so there is a fear of a social attack by such people who may or may not be part of the con.

And is it really so bad for crossplayers to ask for it?

It's not bad for them to ask it. But I think it's simply a request that will be pretty much ignored by the facilities. And well... if someone's going to cross-play, I think they should already understand the ramifications of doing so. If they gotta show Id/strip, then it means they're pretty damn good at it! But that goes without saying, if you're going to run around dressed as an opposite gender/character, then you should realize people will mistake you for that gender.

Offline Seraph

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #65 on: September 20, 2008, 10:11:25 pm »
will some of the issues is not obvious to a crossplayer.  as for stripping, I personally, if one that has to go that far, thats a major issue for crossplayers as it can be time consuming and embarrassing.  if crossplayers can avoid that, it would be an relief.

FYI, the request was not ignored by the con staff, rather it was rejected by the hotel which also disappoints transexuals and disable(see earlier in  thread).
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Offline BlackjackGabbiani

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #66 on: September 20, 2008, 11:31:27 pm »
If you're at a con, you should expect crossplayers. If you see someone walk into the bathroom, chances are that's the bathroom they need to be in, even if you don't see it visually.

Offline ThiefKingsHier

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #67 on: September 20, 2008, 11:44:48 pm »
I understand the needs and wants of those who are transgendered, but I'll be frank:

If you're female physically - You go to the ladies room.
If you're male physically - You go to the mens room.

...If you find this offensive, then so be it. The intention isn't there but I can't stop others from reading into what I type negatively.


Yea, that's exactly how I feel about it.  

As far as being asked to show ID, it's bull. They can ASK you but they can't legally force to show it your ID.

 If you want to change your gender you have every right and I support you, but you can't expect the rest of the world to change with you.
(Hell, most people wont even except gay marriage, so there's a ways to go)


FYI, the request was not ignored by the con staff, rather it was rejected by the hotel which also disappoints transexuals and disable(see earlier in  thread).

...as morally objectionable as it may be, as a private are a private business they can legally discriminate however they choose.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2008, 11:49:01 pm by ThiefKingsHier »

Offline Seraph

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #68 on: September 20, 2008, 11:54:49 pm »
as it was mentioned earlier, it is legally required that you go into your everyday gender restroom.  in the example I mentioned, a girl who crossplayed went into the ladies restroom as she was suppose to but had to pull ID/strip to prove she was entering the correct restroom.  I presume if she hadn't, she may been place in further trouble with the con/police as they're in the impression she is a man entering the ladies restroom.

I was merely stating that request wasn't ignored by the con but rather turned down by the hotel.

Now are you objecting to crossplayers who want a family restroom or crossplayer who think they can use the other restroom since they're pretending to be the other?  The intent of the thread is the former, merely a request to see if the con can get a family restroom that would benefit more then just the crossplayers. 
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 12:05:23 am by Seraph »
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Offline Rathany

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #69 on: September 21, 2008, 02:54:18 am »
I understand the needs and wants of those who are transgendered, but I'll be frank:

If you're female physically - You go to the ladies room.
If you're male physically - You go to the mens room.

Mentality has little to do with your bodily functions.

I hate to make this so black and white, but seriously, think realistically about this: What hotel will accommodate this?


Trust me when I say that I have friends who don't have a clear physical gender ;)  But, being transgen or genderqueer and being a crossplayer are somewhat different things.  A separate bathroom is not feasable.  So, I think it's best to try to think of ways we can help make sure that none of our attendees feel anxious about using the restrooms.  I still think the Maids are the ideal solution, but that depends on how many we get.  Even if we have enough, bathrooms can't be staffed 24/7. 

I do have one possible idea bubbling in my mind, but we need to wait until we have a finalized layout for this to work. 

Would any kind of posted notice help at all, do ya think?  If nothing else it could make it clear that the con supports our crossplayers / transgender / intersex / genderqueer / dude-looks-like-a-lady population. 
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Offline ThiefKingsHier

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #70 on: September 21, 2008, 10:51:14 am »
as it was mentioned earlier, it is legally required that you go into your everyday gender restroom.  in the example I mentioned, a girl who crossplayed went into the ladies restroom as she was suppose to but had to pull ID/strip to prove she was entering the correct restroom.  I presume if she hadn't, she may been place in further trouble with the con/police as they're in the impression she is a man entering the ladies restroom.

I was merely stating that request wasn't ignored by the con but rather turned down by the hotel.

Now are you objecting to crossplayers who want a family restroom or crossplayer who think they can use the other restroom since they're pretending to be the other?  The intent of the thread is the former, merely a request to see if the con can get a family restroom that would benefit more then just the crossplayers. 

It supposedly happened once?  That makes a difference that means that:
A) someone in the restroom made a big about it until hotel staff did something,
B they just happened to enter during the time one of those nasty hotel security which most if not all of us have  encountered
C) Didn't happen.

If she hadn't and the con police WERE involved she would have told everyone about it ( and possibly even taken them to court) the story woud eventually escalate into 'this hotel ID's everyone who enters their restrooms and would just be bad publicity for the hotel.


 I have no objection to crossplayers wanting a family restroom, most places have them anyway, but I most definitely have a problem with crossplaying trying to use both bathrooms.

Offline Seraph

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #71 on: September 21, 2008, 12:39:45 pm »
I'll admit I have no way of knowing the truth of the event I mentioned.  It could be a rumor at best, something I heard over a cosplay.com.  While its very unlikely to happen to that extreme, I"m pretty crossplayers would like to avoid any chance of it if they could by merely asking for a family restroom.


ahh okay.  I wasn't quite clear on what your entire position was.  But yeah, people should enter the restroom according to their everyday gender. 
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Offline kylite

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #72 on: September 21, 2008, 02:12:09 pm »
and for those "few" hermaphrodites My personal opinion is go in whichever restroom you most closely resemble. thus causing the least amount of commotion for everyone including yourself.

otherwise if you have the "equipment", go in which room the equipment was designed for.
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Offline superjaz

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #73 on: September 21, 2008, 10:09:58 pm »
and for those "few" hermaphrodites

Its really not all that rare unfountualy
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Offline MistressLegato

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #74 on: September 26, 2008, 10:31:30 am »
I agree with Neo and said basically the same thing.

Also, as a CROSS-PLAYER, I've only ever used the women's restroom in cross-play because I'm not a real.  It looks like the issue here is accommodating an incredibly small portion of the actually trans-gender population.
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Offline Radien

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #75 on: October 01, 2008, 01:02:31 am »
I agree with Neo and said basically the same thing.

Also, as a CROSS-PLAYER, I've only ever used the women's restroom in cross-play because I'm not a real.  It looks like the issue here is accommodating an incredibly small portion of the actually trans-gender population.

If it appears that way, I think we're getting sidetracked. The original poster may be transgendered, so naturally it's hard to forget that fact, but s/he brought it up specifically for the benefit of crossplayers, since they're more common at anime cons.

The way I see it, we should be looking for the easiest, simplest, and most universally accepted solution. That means taking the minority of crossplayers and offering them an alternative. I seriously think that all of the demand for a private bathroom could be accommodated by directing the few people who bring it up towards the con suite, escorted by a maid or regular staffer.  If more people take advantage of this than we expected, why don't we look at the service as a "success" and simply see about putting even more thought into it the following year? Hey, it worked for Maid Squad and the Cat Ears Workshop. :P

After reading this thread, I'd say that it was never a request for crossplayers to use the opposite restroom of their physical gender. There just happened to be a few people who mentioned that they'd done so in the past, by their own judgment, and would prefer another alternative. Fortunately for staff, they weren't any fiascoes about it, eh? :)
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Offline ThiefKingsHier

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #76 on: October 01, 2008, 10:09:28 am »
I agree with Neo and said basically the same thing.

Also, as a CROSS-PLAYER, I've only ever used the women's restroom in cross-play because I'm not a real.  It looks like the issue here is accommodating an incredibly small portion of the actually trans-gender population.


The way I see it...

The way i see it, why oh WHY is this an issue at all?

Use the bathroom you do every other damned day.  Clothhing is completley irrelevant.

Offline Seraph

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #77 on: October 01, 2008, 02:47:40 pm »
@ThiefKing
umm...did you read all of what Radien wrote?  No one is asking to be able to using the opposite restroom.  Radien only suggested that a con suite be set aside to be used as a family restroom.  thats the whole intent of the thread, to see of there is someway the con could have family restroom(that would benefit more then just crossplayers).
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Offline ThiefKingsHier

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #78 on: October 01, 2008, 03:27:51 pm »
@ThiefKing
umm...did you read all of what Radien wrote?  No one is asking to be able to using the opposite restroom.  Radien only suggested that a con suite be set aside to be used as a family restroom.  thats the whole intent of the thread, to see of there is someway the con could have family restroom(that would benefit more then just crossplayers).

  Yea, I know. I just don't see why that is even necessary.  If it is THAT big of a problem for someone there are bathrooms in the hotel rooms.

Offline Radien

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #79 on: October 01, 2008, 04:06:00 pm »
On the other hand, ThiefKingsHier, I find it amazing how the people opposing the idea could be quite so fervent when their only reason for opposition is "I don't understand why this is such a big deal." Nobody said it was a "big deal" (at least, not just when it's just about crossplayers), but plenty of people questioned why they care, and the crossplayers and their friends answered.

If there's a simple answer, it's more reasonable to simply address the problem. It's not like my suggestion is really inconveniencing anybody. Have you seen the con suite? It's usually empty. The con is paying for it, so why not make use of it for 3 or 4 more people a day?

Quote
If it is THAT big of a problem for someone there are bathrooms in the hotel rooms.

Would YOU like to go back to your room every single time you need to use the restroom?  Besides, as I'm sure somebody else has mentioned in this thread, not everybody stays in hotel rooms at the main con hotel, and some people don't stay at the hotel at all because they live close enough to commute.  Distance *is* the problem here.

Anyway, I'd be happy to reiterate what other people said in this thread said about their reasoning, but no offense, you seem more interested in expressing incredulity than actually listening.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2008, 04:07:02 pm by Radien »
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Offline ThiefKingsHier

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #80 on: October 01, 2008, 04:23:48 pm »
On the other hand, ThiefKingsHier, I find it amazing how the people opposing the idea could be quite so fervent when their only reason for opposition is "I don't understand why this is such a big deal."

 No, see, you haven't answered the question, just given offended knee-jerk reactions/insults.

 The question is: " What is this PROBLEM that needs to be addressed?"
  " Why, is it a PROBLEM for a crossplayer to use a gender specific- bathroom?"

 By problem, I mean a real, physical, serious setback/issue, not minor inconvenience. 

 One or two sentences, which have a noun, subject and verb. Not a paragraph ranting about ignorance intolerance ect.

 Do that and I'll be more than happy to consider what your saying.


Offline Seraph

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #81 on: October 01, 2008, 05:11:27 pm »
Its more a social issue.  both types of crossplayer have express some discomfort when they crossplay.  Not as big issue for the FtM cosplayers from what I've heard, but a bigger concern for MtF crossplayers.  going to into one's everyday restroom can create problems if they look very much the opposite gender they're cosplaying as.  While FtM only have worry about being mistaken for a real male, MtF also worry about the fact in the greater social picture, crossdressing is look down upon and you won't always have a open minded person at the convention who may not be a con attende.  Much rather avoid a potential incident then have to go to the convention/hotel staff to resolve the issue. 

as for people, who decide to use a private restroom instead, going to one's room can be very time consuming as the elavator are usually very busy and can only get worse if a person's room is very high up.  And as Radien mentioned, some people will commute to the convention and the travel times they have to go thru will be much greater.

I suppose by your opinion, this is just a minor inconvenience.  But then, I dun see whats the problem asking the convention staff to see if they get a simple solution for it.  No one is asking the convention or hotel to bend over backwards for this
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Offline murder_of_raven

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #82 on: October 01, 2008, 06:16:00 pm »
On the other hand, ThiefKingsHier, I find it amazing how the people opposing the idea could be quite so fervent when their only reason for opposition is "I don't understand why this is such a big deal."

 No, see, you haven't answered the question, just given offended knee-jerk reactions/insults.

 The question is: " What is this PROBLEM that needs to be addressed?"
  " Why, is it a PROBLEM for a crossplayer to use a gender specific- bathroom?"

 By problem, I mean a real, physical, serious setback/issue, not minor inconvenience. 

 One or two sentences, which have a noun, subject and verb. Not a paragraph ranting about ignorance intolerance ect.

 Do that and I'll be more than happy to consider what your saying.



Okay, don't know if this'll help but as an actual crossplay/transgendered person and not a hypothetical one I can explain specifics, I just haven't because they didn't seem relevent.

I live close enough to commute but WAY too far to go back for a bathroom, thus I do not have any access whatsoever to my own hotel room. That is 100% not an option for me.

I am convincing enough that I'm "mistaken" for a girl roughly 50% of the time and hope to increase my rate of success. Yes, this is my goal but it presents a real problem in a bathroom situation: at best it's very awkward, at worst security is called etc etc etc.

Also I hate to be like this but transexual/transgender teenagers are statistically the largest victim of hate crimes in the entire country, period. And what is the most common place they are harrassed? Public restrooms.

So I, not some hypothetical crossplayer it might be easy to concieve, face an all too real risk of either public humiliation if I go to a crowded bathroom, or getting harrassed (or worse) if I go to an untrafficked bathroom.

And I'm not the only person in /exactly/ this situation. And there are more who are in similar situations.

So yes, I believe this is an entirely valid issue. Does that qualify as a "real, physical, serious setback/issue, not minor inconvenience" to you?
« Last Edit: October 01, 2008, 06:23:12 pm by murder_of_raven »

Offline Rathany

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #83 on: October 01, 2008, 07:09:40 pm »
I agree with Neo and said basically the same thing.

Also, as a CROSS-PLAYER, I've only ever used the women's restroom in cross-play because I'm not a real.  It looks like the issue here is accommodating an incredibly small portion of the actually trans-gender population.

If it appears that way, I think we're getting sidetracked. The original poster may be transgendered, so naturally it's hard to forget that fact, but s/he brought it up specifically for the benefit of crossplayers, since they're more common at anime cons.

The way I see it, we should be looking for the easiest, simplest, and most universally accepted solution. That means taking the minority of crossplayers and offering them an alternative. I seriously think that all of the demand for a private bathroom could be accommodated by directing the few people who bring it up towards the con suite, escorted by a maid or regular staffer.  If more people take advantage of this than we expected, why don't we look at the service as a "success" and simply see about putting even more thought into it the following year? Hey, it worked for Maid Squad and the Cat Ears Workshop. :P

After reading this thread, I'd say that it was never a request for crossplayers to use the opposite restroom of their physical gender. There just happened to be a few people who mentioned that they'd done so in the past, by their own judgment, and would prefer another alternative. Fortunately for staff, they weren't any fiascoes about it, eh? :)

I have seen alot of crossplayers at Kcon.  I, um, tend to notice them alot ;)
Anyway, having them all dress up in con suite?  I do not like that idea.  Con Suite is supposed to be a quiet space for staffers to escape.  If we are even having just 20 or 30 people using that to change twice a day and go to the bathroom that is quite a bit of traffic.  Also, this year the main area  of con suite had a separate bathroom.  In the suites I have viewed at the new hotel, this was not the case.  I am definitly against having people tromp through a director's bedroom.  I got little enough sleep as it was, and it was at odd hours sometimes.   

At peak times it could take 10 minutes to get to con suite and 10 to get back to the main con space.  So, add in time to powder one's nose or change and this is adding up to a huge drain on resources.  I think that a staffed bathroom would be less of a drain.  Even if it's just ten people twice a day and just fifteen minutes each, that is already 5 hours of work ... and not work in where it would be one after the other.  We'd have busy times and slow times.  And what if we get lots of requests during the peak times for registration?

Also, if it's more like 20 or 30 people a day and 15-25 minutes per ... yeah, the numbers start adding up to really big totals. 

I am really against the idea of using con suite for this.  Keep in mind that it is likely going to be a much smaller suite next year.  Doubletree has the biggest suites in Portland.

Also, on a personal note, I reeeeealy needed the fact that con suite was always calm and quiet in 2007. 
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Offline TomtheFanboy

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #84 on: October 01, 2008, 11:04:03 pm »
Since there is only one bathroom per floor (still haven't figured out whether there's a "family one" there) we will not be able to set any aside. However I believe that it might behoove the yojimbo staff to have whomever is assigned to patrol the floor make a regular check of the restrooms for any problems. the yojimbo already travel in pairs and if they are lucky enough to get a good male/female ratio this year they should be able to get people into both. I doubt we'll ever have enough yojimbo to guaranteed a "potty guard" but you all can help by enlisting as staff with the yojimbo to get us closer to that goal!  ;)

It is not likely that I'll be visiting the hotel again before the Elections (OMG! less than 2 weeks away!) however I will be sure to check for any restrooms I may have missed. Paritcularly family restrooms that are non-specific on gender.
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Offline murder_of_raven

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #85 on: October 02, 2008, 07:41:44 pm »
Since there is only one bathroom per floor (still haven't figured out whether there's a "family one" there) we will not be able to set any aside. However I believe that it might behoove the yojimbo staff to have whomever is assigned to patrol the floor make a regular check of the restrooms for any problems. the yojimbo already travel in pairs and if they are lucky enough to get a good male/female ratio this year they should be able to get people into both. I doubt we'll ever have enough yojimbo to guaranteed a "potty guard" but you all can help by enlisting as staff with the yojimbo to get us closer to that goal!  ;)

It is not likely that I'll be visiting the hotel again before the Elections (OMG! less than 2 weeks away!) however I will be sure to check for any restrooms I may have missed. Paritcularly family restrooms that are non-specific on gender.

Thank you so much, as a crossplayer I personally feel that is the most we could possibly ask for. :3 I hope we have good luck with the family bathroom thingy or another viable alternative can be found if we don't.

And yes, I personally never would've even dreampt of suggesting we use the con suite.

Offline Pezzer

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #86 on: October 02, 2008, 08:41:33 pm »
I have brought this up to our hotel contact, and asked for the Hotels imput on this. the suggestion they would like to go with is taking one bathroom and labeling it 'crossplay' though i am really sure about this since well it would be the one near main events and gaming.

but this also notes that the hotel is really willing to work with us on this.
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Offline BlackjackGabbiani

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #87 on: October 02, 2008, 10:28:55 pm »
I think if anyone gets freaked out by a crossplayer, they have no business being at an anime con.

Offline Seraph

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #88 on: October 02, 2008, 10:32:48 pm »
@blackjack
maybe, but there are non con goers using the hotel.   and there is the sad fact there are few con goers that won't be civil about it if they dislike it.
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Offline Rathany

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #89 on: October 02, 2008, 10:50:53 pm »
@blackjack
maybe, but there are non con goers using the hotel.   and there is the sad fact there are few con goers that won't be civil about it if they dislike it.

But, as I have said before, we have ALL the con space.  We can't disallow hotel guests downstairs and in other bits of con space, but it I doubt many of them are going to try to go into areas where there are no hotel rooms and no reason to be there outside of the con.  We are only like to have a mix of con people and other peoples on the ground floor. 
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Offline ThiefKingsHier

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #90 on: October 03, 2008, 08:56:20 am »

So yes, I believe this is an entirely valid issue. Does that qualify as a "real, physical, serious setback/issue, not minor inconvenience" to you?

Don't think I'm ignoring you or that this post was of yoru time, but Transgander is not the question ( for me)  right now.
 Even if it were, I really don't think it should be discussed here. That would open a whole can of worms far too massive for this forum.

I DO understand why it's a problem for Transgender. It's the male or female crossplayers that I don't understand.

Offline Seraph

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #91 on: October 03, 2008, 09:13:45 am »
those who have problems with transgender people will see crossplayers another transgender person even if they're technically not. 
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Offline ThiefKingsHier

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #92 on: October 03, 2008, 09:38:22 am »
those who have problems with transgender people will see crossplayers another transgender person even if they're technically not. 


...what?

 If I get what your trying to say, then it's assumption based on hearsay and rumors. Try and take something like this to a court and they would throw it out.


Offline Seraph

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #93 on: October 03, 2008, 09:55:50 am »
if someone who hates transgender people or just plain homophobes, see a person crossplaying, they will think only transgender/gay people would want to dress up as the opposite gender and can lash out at that person.
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Offline MistressLegato

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #94 on: October 03, 2008, 04:24:25 pm »
I think you're going out on a MASSIVE limb of assumption, Seraph.

Nobody has ever assumed that I'm transgender, lesbian, whatever just because I crossplay because when I go to a con, people know what crossplay is.

When I'm at the mall in cosplay, people ask "Why the costume?"  "Did Halloween come early?"  And I politely explain what the event is about and why I'm dressed how I am.

I had a Christian guy ask me why I preferred to dress as male characters and I told him that the gender of a character didn't matter to me because I liked their personality.

There will also be people out there who are just a*holes, but I've, personally, never had an issue.  I've never had a restroom issue with my crossplay.

I crossplayed as Zell Dincht once and people honest to god, thought I was a boy, but when they realized that I wasn't, nobody questioned me using the restroom.

If you are transgendered, it's tough spot, but you need to use the restroom that you're legally supposed to. 
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Offline Seraph

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #95 on: October 03, 2008, 05:03:52 pm »
I admit I may be doing a large presumtion.  But do note that its generally isn't seen big deal or even a issue in in FtM.  The worse that could happen is being confused for guy entering the ladies' restroom and someone crying foul.  MtF can be a much bigger issue as there is people who are very judgemental who believe that since women's clothes are for women only, only a transgender man would want to wear them.

I have to ask, why the should the request for a family restroom be thrown out without consideration that you seem to feel?  Is it because you feel its too minor of a issue?
« Last Edit: October 03, 2008, 05:04:34 pm by Seraph »
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Offline murder_of_raven

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #96 on: October 03, 2008, 07:53:48 pm »
I have brought this up to our hotel contact, and asked for the Hotels imput on this. the suggestion they would like to go with is taking one bathroom and labeling it 'crossplay' though i am really sure about this since well it would be the one near main events and gaming.

but this also notes that the hotel is really willing to work with us on this.

Wow that's way better news than I was expecting to hear. And yes, that's the solution I would most prefer as well but if it won't work than at least we know the hotel is willing to work with us.

Idea: It doesn't actually have to be labled "Crossplay", in fact that might be a magnet for potential predetors. What about the much more general "Gender Neutral" which would have the bonus effect of allowing everybody to use the bathroom closest to the main events and gaming. And if an individual is uncomfortable with this idea or needs to be changing or something, they can always use their respective gender bathroom elsewhere.

Honestly I don't see why people are so caught up about seperating genders in bathrooms. It's not like a preditor is going to be held away by a simple sign and /lots/ of places in Europe don't have gender specific bathrooms. If we were allowed to use a female bathroom we'd even have cozy stalls around everybody.

What does everybody think of that solution? As I recall, when I origionally brought this up the major argument against it was "The hotel will be against it".

Offline ThiefKingsHier

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #97 on: October 04, 2008, 11:30:56 pm »
I think you're going out on a MASSIVE limb of assumption, Seraph.

Nobody has ever assumed that I'm transgender, lesbian, whatever just because I crossplay because when I go to a con, people know what crossplay is.

When I'm at the mall in cosplay, people ask "Why the costume?"  "Did Halloween come early?"  And I politely explain what the event is about and why I'm dressed how I am.

I had a Christian guy ask me why I preferred to dress as male characters and I told him that the gender of a character didn't matter to me because I liked their personality.

There will also be people out there who are just a*holes, but I've, personally, never had an issue.  I've never had a restroom issue with my crossplay.

I crossplayed as Zell Dincht once and people honest to god, thought I was a boy, but when they realized that I wasn't, nobody questioned me using the restroom.

If you are transgendered, it's tough spot, but you need to use the restroom that you're legally supposed to. 

That is exactly how Ifeel on..every point. Don't know why it always has to be said by someone else. but thanks none the less.
I have never ever cosplayed as a girl and no one has given me any problems at all.


I have to ask, why the should the request for a family restroom be thrown out without consideration that you seem to feel?  Is it because you feel its too minor of a issue?

Yes, that is exactly why.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2008, 11:37:16 pm by ThiefKingsHier »

Offline DancingTofu

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #98 on: October 04, 2008, 11:46:55 pm »
As someone who wears a skirt when he plays DDR (better air flow, less restricting) and has hair down to his butt, it is an awkward situation when someone even thinks you're not the gender you identify yourself as when they walk into the restroom.  It's an immediate panic for them.  "Oh crap, I just walked into the ladies' room."  It makes people uncomfortable when that kind of confusion exists.  The fact that the hotel is willing to designate a restroom for crossplay solves a lot of awkward situations for crossplayers, observers, and those weird Tofu Folk who look like ladies from the back but men from the front.  This discussion really has no reason to continue from there, and it's just becoming a series of personal arguments.

Ideally, we'd have a designated "changing stalls" room or area, but the setup for that would be hell if we wanted to do it right.  Good news though: there are hundreds of private rooms in the facility, and you've got months to reserve one so you don't need to worry about these kinds of things.
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Offline kylite

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #99 on: October 05, 2008, 12:07:30 pm »
rather then look at this from the point of view of the request, I am going to look at it from the point of logistics.

1 bathroom per floor (in con space)
4000+ attendees

is it really advisable to set one of these aside all for a small select crowd?

if this is such a huge issue, then my suggestion is if you have a hotel room and are one of the people affected by this argument, then offer to share your room and facilities with the rest affected by this argument.
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