Author Topic: Crossplay Bathroom?  (Read 42821 times)

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Offline murder_of_raven

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Crossplay Bathroom?
« on: September 02, 2008, 11:53:41 am »
Hello there. I have attended Kumoricon for 3 years in a row and am proud to say I look forward to it all year and am rarely disappointed. This year was the first year I have crossplayed, which brings me to my suggestion....

Bathrooms=BAD. I spoke to a few FtM crossplayers who voiced some discomfort about this but as a MtF crossplayer (and transgender) I was absolutely MORTIFIED. Whenever I see this discussion brought up on other forums the final conclusion is "girls don't want guys, crossplaying or not, in their bathrooms and to a less vocal extent vice-versa". And I'm fine with that.

All I would like is for next year there to be ONE bathroom in the entire hotel designated as a "crossplay bathroom" which could either be a one person at a time thing, or be for crossplayers of both genders. If this is against hotel policy perhaps two could be found, one for FtM and one for MtF? It wouldn't have to be heavily advertised or anything, just properly designated and left at that.

Thoughts/Comments? Any chance of this actually happening? Anybody I should specifically contact?

Offline RemSaverem

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2008, 12:26:05 pm »
I am totally in favor of this. I have close friends who are mid-transition (FTM) or just finished transition (FTM and MTF). However probably what would be easiest would be to have the Facilities Liason make a map of where all the bathrooms are in the hotel and note which ones are the private, accessible stalls. Example, this year in the EMC just across from our Madison room, was a wheelchair accessible restroom
(designated for women, but only one big room with one toilet, so could have been used privately for anyone of any felt-gender).

Good luck to you in your personal evolution.
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Offline kylite

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2008, 12:48:24 pm »
First and foremost I want to say I have nothing against any sexual orientation or gender transition.

that said, the public acceptance in hotels as well as other local facilities has been less then stellar. I am sure we can bring this up to the facilities liaison who can speak with the hotel and see if there is anything we can do. Just dont get angry at us if we cannot.
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Offline murder_of_raven

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2008, 01:03:40 pm »
Ouch, well that's certainly not great news. Still it would be much appretiated if you guys gave it even just a good effort. ^___^

Oh and if there's anything I could do to help (somehow doubtful) I'd be more than happy. And thank you Rem <3

Offline RemSaverem

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2008, 01:09:20 pm »
You're welcome. I think that Facilities Liason making a map of where bathrooms are, and particularly the private ones, is a great idea for everyone: crossplayers, TGs, those who might need to change babies' diapers, people with mobility impairments, etc., most emphatically. The only caveat would be to put a sign up or something reminding folks that they should keep to a reasonable time limit if using those facilities to change cosplays....
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Offline Daxe

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2008, 01:27:07 pm »
I'm all for your idea but you can't forget that we share these bathrooms with the noncon guests. I just don't see the hotels making concessions.


Offline Winfred

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2008, 07:18:10 pm »
Good luck, Rehven! This is a great idea, and I'm sure at least some positive action will be taken now that you brought it up. Believe! =D

Offline kalira

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2008, 08:03:35 pm »
Quote
Hello there. I have attended Kumoricon for 3 years in a row and am proud to say I look forward to it all year and am rarely disappointed. This year was the first year I have crossplayed, which brings me to my suggestion....

Bathrooms=BAD. I spoke to a few FtM crossplayers who voiced some discomfort about this but as a MtF crossplayer (and transgender) I was absolutely MORTIFIED. Whenever I see this discussion brought up on other forums the final conclusion is "girls don't want guys, crossplaying or not, in their bathrooms and to a less vocal extent vice-versa". And I'm fine with that.

All I would like is for next year there to be ONE bathroom in the entire hotel designated as a "crossplay bathroom" which could either be a one person at a time thing, or be for crossplayers of both genders. If this is against hotel policy perhaps two could be found, one for FtM and one for MtF? It wouldn't have to be heavily advertised or anything, just properly designated and left at that.

Thoughts/Comments? Any chance of this actually happening? Anybody I should specifically contact?

This is entirely out of our control.  I do agree with you, but there is nothing that the con can do to facilitate, or control this aside from passing this info on to the hotel and hope they also think this is a good idea. 

Offline Rathany

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2008, 09:18:11 pm »
That would be a great idea.  I really wish we could do that. 
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Offline superjaz

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2008, 09:21:47 pm »
this is a really good idea, I have a friend who is in trangender and knows all the neutral bathrooms at psu,
I am sure if there is a way to have a desinated neutral bathroom our peeps will find it
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Offline Hawkeye

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2008, 09:24:46 pm »
It would definitely be nice to do so.
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Offline BlackjackGabbiani

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2008, 09:51:48 pm »
I'd go with "the bathroom you usually use" and screw what anyone says. If they insult you, report them to the con staff just as you would if they insulted you about anything.

Also, there were single stall bathrooms, as Ellen said, in the business center (not sure why there weren't more given that they were marketed as wheelchair accessable and that would mean that they made wheelchair-bound people go all the way to that corner to use 'em, but hey), and they only have one person at a time, so yeah.

Offline RemSaverem

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2008, 01:48:55 am »


This is entirely out of our control.  I do agree with you, but there is nothing that the con can do to facilitate, or control this aside from passing this info on to the hotel and hope they also think this is a good idea. 
..........and (perhaps at info booth, perhaps in con shwag bags) providing maps of the hotel including the bathrooms, highlighting therein the wheelchair accessible bathrooms, and therein further the single-stall/private bathrooms highlighted amongst all the bathrooms.

It is possible some hotels already publish such for their mobility-impaired clients?
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Offline murder_of_raven

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2008, 07:33:23 am »


This is entirely out of our control.  I do agree with you, but there is nothing that the con can do to facilitate, or control this aside from passing this info on to the hotel and hope they also think this is a good idea. 
..........and (perhaps at info booth, perhaps in con shwag bags) providing maps of the hotel including the bathrooms, highlighting therein the wheelchair accessible bathrooms, and therein further the single-stall/private bathrooms highlighted amongst all the bathrooms.

It is possible some hotels already publish such for their mobility-impaired clients?

That would be perfect, assuming there aren't any rules discouraging non-impaired clients from using them. Does anybody know about that?

Offline RemSaverem

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2008, 03:02:31 pm »


This is entirely out of our control.  I do agree with you, but there is nothing that the con can do to facilitate, or control this aside from passing this info on to the hotel and hope they also think this is a good idea. 
..........and (perhaps at info booth, perhaps in con shwag bags) providing maps of the hotel including the bathrooms, highlighting therein the wheelchair accessible bathrooms, and therein further the single-stall/private bathrooms highlighted amongst all the bathrooms.

It is possible some hotels already publish such for their mobility-impaired clients?

That would be perfect, assuming there aren't any rules discouraging non-impaired clients from using them. Does anybody know about that?

I don't think there'd be any harm in going through the Hilton's website and seeing what they already have, and if they don't yet have such, asking if they'd be able to provide something like that. It would be a general service of value before, during, and after our con, something the hotel could be proud to offer.
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Offline ThiefKingsHier

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2008, 08:48:30 pm »
 I'm totally for everyone doing their own thing but

1) the hotel is for everyone. It hosts many conventions all year round as well as general guests. We can't possibly expect them to put in new bathrooms just for our convention.

2) Suppose we did. All kinds of special interest groups would demand the same thing.  It would never end.

I just don't think it's practical to expect such a thing.

Offline Winfred

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2008, 09:13:54 pm »
I'm totally for everyone doing their own thing but

1) the hotel is for everyone. It hosts many conventions all year round as well as general guests. We can't possibly expect them to put in new bathrooms just for our convention.

2) Suppose we did. All kinds of special interest groups would demand the same thing.  It would never end.

I just don't think it's practical to expect such a thing.

Ah, I think it's more a matter of having a designated place for people to go without running into trouble than actually installing brand new bathrooms or the like.

Offline murder_of_raven

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2008, 09:54:54 pm »
I'm totally for everyone doing their own thing but

1) the hotel is for everyone. It hosts many conventions all year round as well as general guests. We can't possibly expect them to put in new bathrooms just for our convention.

2) Suppose we did. All kinds of special interest groups would demand the same thing.  It would never end.

I just don't think it's practical to expect such a thing.

Ah, I think it's more a matter of having a designated place for people to go without running into trouble than actually installing brand new bathrooms or the like.

She is exactly right, the idea was never for them to put in new bathrooms, it is only for them to designate bathrooms for the safety of their patrons. I hate to put it this way, but even a bigoted hotel should realize if some jerk decides to beat a crossplayer up in the bathrooms, it's not only them that will see court charges. So I think the hotel will probably be more accomodating than we think, seeeing as we are patrons just like everyone else.

Offline RemSaverem

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2008, 10:23:31 pm »
I for ten years was a support person for adults with developmental disabilities. We staff frequently would take clients out into the community that were not of the same gender as ourselves and have to deal with public bathroom situations for our clients who, whether in wheelchairs or not, had need for assistance with their toileting. If such a map as I proposed had been available, i.e, let's say the downtown business association of the city of Eugene offered a map to the wheelchair-accessible bathrooms downtown, what businesses did or did not have them, etc., that would have saved us a lot of time having to personally research such every time we went out. Then because of the physical logistics of trying to fit into a stall with a client in a wheelchair, especially noting which were big rooms with single stalls that lock like we had in the EMC, that would have been great for us. So there are multiple groups who would all benefit from the same information, and I would think that the hospitality industry would be receptive to that request. It would not be about allocating the space. Simply letting us know where it is.
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Offline Radien

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2008, 10:51:35 pm »
Well, I dunno about the larger stance of demanding neutral bathrooms (it's a worthy pursuit, but a bit difficult considering the benefit would only last for one weekend at one location). But I do have a suggestion for helping the crossplayers.

If someone really needs a private bathroom, could we possibly give them permission on an individual basis to use a bathroom in one of the staff suites?  They aren't usually swamped, and whoever is manning the suite at the time could supervise.

Of course, even if staff went for this idea, I'd have to remind everybody that staff have other things to do, especially some of the ones who spend a lot of time in the suites. Still, it'd be closer than going back to your hotel room, if this year's layout is a good example.

(Snrk. Perhaps we could have a new staff position next year: Crossplayer Liaison. ;) )
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Offline Rathany

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2008, 12:51:40 am »

(Snrk. Perhaps we could have a new staff position next year: Crossplayer Liaison. ;) )

Actually, if we could get volunteers to staff one male and one female restroom to prevent problems and keep an eye on things, that would work.  Maybe they could serve a dual purpose and also have kits of emergency cosplay supplies like safety pins.  How often have you heard cosplayers asking for safety pins?

This may actually be a job for Maid Squad if we can get enough people.   Maybe a girl bulter and a boy maid?
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Offline Serika

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2008, 01:03:18 am »
Wait, would the bathrooms be for transgendered people or just crossplayers who don't actually feel different from what's in their pants? 

(I ask this because I know someone who is transgendered and attends K-con, but doesn't make a lot of effort to look like his true gender, and making things easier for him and others is, you know, always a good thing.)

The girl butler and boy maid thing sounds cute, but it needs to be done seriously... Some of the crossplayers were obviously crossplaying because "lol its funny" and real, actual transvestites/transgenders need the same amount of respect as the rest of the attendees. 
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Offline SpearXXI

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2008, 01:53:34 am »
Even though the con is over, I think there was some single bathrooms near the creation station.

Offline little_miss_ururu

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2008, 03:27:22 am »
i agree with the idea of an indicated cross-play restroom and for trans people. 

this is just one of those topics that bugs the sugar and sunshine right outta me!!  why is it that some people seem to be uncomfortable about who is in the bathroom?  i don't mean this about the cross play or trans folks.  i mean the people who point it out or are bothered by it.  why should they even notice??
if they indeed need to use the restroom then why don't they just go in and use the restroom, wash up, and then come on out.

it just makes me wonder how badly they needed to use the restroom in the first place or if they are just dawdling in there.  i understand folks go in there to change, but why should they even be focused on who is in there?  change, check that everything is fine and come on out to show everyone the cosplay you worked so hard on.

idk...to me some people are just so narrow minded.  but i think it is a good idea to have at least one restroom that cross-play/trans folks feel comfortable in!!!!

cerridwen

Offline shademalek

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2008, 04:38:39 pm »

(Snrk. Perhaps we could have a new staff position next year: Crossplayer Liaison. ;) )

Actually, if we could get volunteers to staff one male and one female restroom to prevent problems and keep an eye on things, that would work.  Maybe they could serve a dual purpose and also have kits of emergency cosplay supplies like safety pins.  How often have you heard cosplayers asking for safety pins?

This may actually be a job for Maid Squad if we can get enough people.   Maybe a girl bulter and a boy maid?

I think this could run double duty as well. Have that have basic medical supplies as well (band aids and such) so that it could be a full on aid station as well as just a bathroom attendant. They could be there to monitor as well as carry a first aid kit and pins for cosplay first aid. I think that would be an elegant solution.

Offline Winfred

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2008, 04:55:31 pm »

(Snrk. Perhaps we could have a new staff position next year: Crossplayer Liaison. ;) )

Actually, if we could get volunteers to staff one male and one female restroom to prevent problems and keep an eye on things, that would work.  Maybe they could serve a dual purpose and also have kits of emergency cosplay supplies like safety pins.  How often have you heard cosplayers asking for safety pins?

This may actually be a job for Maid Squad if we can get enough people.   Maybe a girl bulter and a boy maid?

I think this could run double duty as well. Have that have basic medical supplies as well (band aids and such) so that it could be a full on aid station as well as just a bathroom attendant. They could be there to monitor as well as carry a first aid kit and pins for cosplay first aid. I think that would be an elegant solution.

Oooh, that's a great idea. I'd love to be a part of that! Who doesn't want the power of ridiculous helpfulness, I ask you? 

Offline BlackjackGabbiani

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2008, 05:12:23 pm »
why is it that some people seem to be uncomfortable about who is in the bathroom?  i don't mean this about the cross play or trans folks.  i mean the people who point it out or are bothered by it.  why should they even notice??
if they indeed need to use the restroom then why don't they just go in and use the restroom, wash up, and then come on out.

Usually I'd agree with you, given that most times the bathroom is a place to pee and wash your hands, but during a con sometimes you do a full change in there. Heck, I had to.

Offline reppy

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2008, 05:49:02 pm »
Well, in my instance, I feel like it's actually more of a benefit to the other people attending than anyone else. Let me give you an example. I was rinsing my hands in the bathroom (wearing my Chi crossplay) and a little boy walks out of one of the stalls. I'm not entirely sure if he was attending the convention; I'm going to assume he was. What's the kid thinking when he walks out and sees a guy dressed as a girl in the same bathroom as him? If I was him, I'd be scared simply because it would seem so strange to me. I'll admit in my case, I don't require an individual bathroom or anything, but I do wonder how the other people in the bathroom feel.

How bad is bigotry at the cons anyways? I guess I always assume we otaku are an enlightened breed that look beyond race, gender, and sexuality. Yet it would appear not everyone has the same outlook as me.

Also, not everyone that crossplays does it because they're transgendered or doing it just for laughs. In my case, it just so happens that Chi is my favorite anime character so I wanted to dress up like her, regardless of gender. Plus hell, I like frills.

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Offline Radien

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2008, 07:07:15 pm »
Actually, if we could get volunteers to staff one male and one female restroom to prevent problems and keep an eye on things, that would work.  Maybe they could serve a dual purpose and also have kits of emergency cosplay supplies like safety pins.  How often have you heard cosplayers asking for safety pins?

This may actually be a job for Maid Squad if we can get enough people.   Maybe a girl bulter and a boy maid?

Well, I was mostly joking, to tell the truth... I bet most people on maid squad can think of better things to do with their time at con than spend all day in the bathroom. Besides, even though it'd be "nice to have," I'm sure there are more important things they could be doing elsewhere.

As for emergency cosplay supplies, there was a commercial repair booth in the exhibitor's hall, and in the past there has been a repair station elsewhere, though I don't know what it was like this year. If you think a bathroom is a necessity, the solution would be to secure a room for the repair station that has an adjoining bathroom, or is near one, at least.


Oooh, that's a great idea. I'd love to be a part of that! Who doesn't want the power of ridiculous helpfulness, I ask you? 

You mean you'd actually be interested in spending a lot of time hanging out in the bathroom? O_o Well, okay, it'd be interesting if I was proven wrong. Just to be realistic, though, how long would it be before you got tired of being stuck in there as an attendant?


Wait, would the bathrooms be for transgendered people or just crossplayers who don't actually feel different from what's in their pants? 

(I ask this because I know someone who is transgendered and attends K-con, but doesn't make a lot of effort to look like his true gender, and making things easier for him and others is, you know, always a good thing.)

The general idea is that "one-at-a-time" bathrooms with locks solve all of these problems at once. The subject of babies came up because it's often convenient to make a large one-toilet bathroom with a diaper-changing station. With one-toilet bathrooms, they can be gender-neutral because privacy is not a problem.


i agree with the idea of an indicated cross-play restroom and for trans people. 

this is just one of those topics that bugs the sugar and sunshine right outta me!!  why is it that some people seem to be uncomfortable about who is in the bathroom?  i don't mean this about the cross play or trans folks.  i mean the people who point it out or are bothered by it.  why should they even notice??
if they indeed need to use the restroom then why don't they just go in and use the restroom, wash up, and then come on out.

it just makes me wonder how badly they needed to use the restroom in the first place or if they are just dawdling in there.  i understand folks go in there to change, but why should they even be focused on who is in there?  change, check that everything is fine and come on out to show everyone the cosplay you worked so hard on.

idk...to me some people are just so narrow minded.  but i think it is a good idea to have at least one restroom that cross-play/trans folks feel comfortable in!!!!

cerridwen

While I totally echo some of your sentiments, I encourage you to be understanding. We anime fans may be very open-minded, particularly about gender roles, but we live in a society with Puritan roots. In most other western societies, general decency is preferred, but people here take it an extra step by not wanting other people (or failing that, the other gender) to see us take care of "private" duties or even see our underwear.

Americans just generally feel more vulnerable when disrobed. That may change over time, but in the meantime, people are protective over who sees them on the pot. :P For now, it's just easier to try to have a little something for each mindset than to try to get everybody to think the same. Especially when it only means small, reasonable changes which have multiple benefits. For instance: transgender privacy + disability access + family changing room + diaper station for both moms and dads = WIN.

(This subject has been discussed at length on Crossplay.net. Can you tell?)
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Offline murder_of_raven

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2008, 07:14:36 pm »
:D Good job Radien, I must say I agree with everything you've said.

Actually, I'm not sure I have anything else to add at this point. (And yes, methinks I lurked on that thread before.)

Offline Winfred

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2008, 07:18:07 pm »
Oooh, that's a great idea. I'd love to be a part of that! Who doesn't want the power of ridiculous helpfulness, I ask you? 

You mean you'd actually be interested in spending a lot of time hanging out in the bathroom? O_o Well, okay, it'd be interesting if I was proven wrong. Just to be realistic, though, how long would it be before you got tired of being stuck in there as an attendant?

Geez, when you say it like that... *shuffles feet* Well, I dunno, I'd like to be helpful is what I'm saying here. I'd help for a few hours then let the next Helpful Person come along and take over for a shift. Or something! A multi-purpose attendant would be a nifty job, is all. I was just mentioning my possible willingness if this possible course of action possibly happened...
« Last Edit: September 04, 2008, 07:22:59 pm by Winfred »

Offline BlackjackGabbiani

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2008, 07:40:11 pm »
What's the kid thinking when he walks out and sees a guy dressed as a girl in the same bathroom as him? If I was him, I'd be scared simply because it would seem so strange to me.

If that would scare him, he'd have been scared loooooong before he found his way to the bathroom, just by virtue of walking through conspace.

Offline reppy

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2008, 07:45:25 pm »
Maybe. But being alone in a bathroom as a kid with a complete stranger is scary enough, let alone with someone dressed like a girl. ^_^;  I guess he didn't seem very scared; I complimented him on his nice suit and was on my way.  But it did get me thinking.

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Offline RemSaverem

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #33 on: September 04, 2008, 08:23:50 pm »
I crossplayed Tuxedo Masks for KC '04 because Live Action Sailor Moon Slumber Party was so fun at KC 2003, and because my former girlfriend had looked so hot wearing a tux for at one of the shows a feminist performance art troupe put on (I used to occasionally hop into those shows myself when I could). It was awesome, I providentially showed up at the '04 Live Action Sailor Moon event precisely when Tuxedo Kamen made his first appearance on the big screen--and was duly given my first glomp by Tom the Fanboy. It felt just like Rocky Horror (not even so much for the crossdressing as for the stepping onto stage in costume when the character comes on the screen!).

Also (and I have no idea if this applies to anyone else, and sorry if this is too personal) I like crossplaying because I don't have to worry about anyone possibly looking at my chest.
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Offline little_miss_ururu

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2008, 07:28:10 am »
ok well i tried to do that quote thing and all it did was make me itchy at this wee hour...maybe i will try again when i have had more sleep.

when it comes to things like family bathrooms and changing tables in the men's room...this is a topic i will always comment on to establishments.   i am not sure why it is one of those things with me.  i always let them know that i appreciate the fact that they have family bathrooms ( yeah omsi and cm2) and i will also point out if they don't.  and especially if they don't have a changing table in the mens room. 

i sometimes forget that not everyone is as open minded as our family.  we have a lot of trans friends and are also involved in the glbtp community.  it is frequently a topic of discussion with in that community.  i just forget sometimes....makes me wish others would just accept people as people and not harass them about such things. 

so on 2 hours sleep that is how i feel...

Offline Radien

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2008, 06:16:26 pm »
:D Good job Radien, I must say I agree with everything you've said.

Actually, I'm not sure I have anything else to add at this point. (And yes, methinks I lurked on that thread before.)

Hey, thanks. ^_^  Ummm... I guess that leaves me kinda done with what I have to say on the subject, too; a least for now.

You were on that thread, too? Hm, were you completely lurking, or did you post once or twice? ;)

Geez, when you say it like that... *shuffles feet* Well, I dunno, I'd like to be helpful is what I'm saying here. I'd help for a few hours then let the next Helpful Person come along and take over for a shift. Or something! A multi-purpose attendant would be a nifty job, is all. I was just mentioning my possible willingness if this possible course of action possibly happened...

Well gee, now I feel like I've sabotaged things...

Really, though, I'm just out for your personal benefit. I think we could make use of the idea without requiring people to stay in the bathroom throughout the event. :) For instance, if we had a room with helpful services that's right next to a bathroom, and one of the volunteers/staff could be available to go into the bathroom and help people with their costumes, on demand.  Wouldn't that be more fun?

In fact, I've had a lot of fun doing that while getting ready with friends in the past. It would capture the feeling of a "green room." (Can't call it exactly that, though, because the Cosplay Contest already has a green room)

Was there something like a "Cosplay Lounge" this year? Or was that at another con?...
« Last Edit: September 05, 2008, 06:19:26 pm by Radien »
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Offline murder_of_raven

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2008, 06:40:10 pm »
Hey, thanks. ^_^  Ummm... I guess that leaves me kinda done with what I have to say on the subject, too; a least for now.

You were on that thread, too? Hm, were you completely lurking, or did you post once or twice? ;)

Lol I don't even actually have an account (at this point) so I'm sure I was /completely/ lurking. But still, your writing voice sounds familiar, I bet I actually read what you specifically had to say.

Offline Schlofin

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #37 on: September 05, 2008, 07:37:08 pm »
I have to agree with this as my partner was going to crossplay at this con if he could have gotten his crossplay together in time. This could have been a particularly serious problem as he is a pretty effeminate male anyways and our room was on the 15th floor with 10+ min travel times from the lobby to our floor at times this could have created a problem. We have had issues at cons before as a openly gay couple with biggots I could just imagine what it would have been like if he had been crossplaying. I would be interested in seeing what the con could come up for this situation be it "family" restrooms (you know the big ones that mom and/or dad can take multiple children into) or just a set of restrooms like the ones at the end of the hall near where the main stage was at this years con be designated as "co-ed" or even crossplay as in what ever is under your skirt or in your pants no mater what you are wearing you go into that restroom.

Offline Winfred

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2008, 08:38:38 pm »
Really, though, I'm just out for your personal benefit. I think we could make use of the idea without requiring people to stay in the bathroom throughout the event. :) For instance, if we had a room with helpful services that's right next to a bathroom, and one of the volunteers/staff could be available to go into the bathroom and help people with their costumes, on demand.  Wouldn't that be more fun?

In fact, I've had a lot of fun doing that while getting ready with friends in the past. It would capture the feeling of a "green room." (Can't call it exactly that, though, because the Cosplay Contest already has a green room)

Was there something like a "Cosplay Lounge" this year? Or was that at another con?...

Yeeesss, that would be more fun! Yah, maaaybe when I pseudo-volunteered I didn't imagine myself physically in the bathroom. *cough* I'm not the greatest at thinking ahead. Anyhoo! The Salvation Station, yes, that set-up would work quite well, I'd think!  Maybe? Again, not good at thinking ahead. *headdesk*

Offline Radien

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #39 on: September 07, 2008, 01:35:01 am »
Lol I don't even actually have an account (at this point) so I'm sure I was /completely/ lurking. But still, your writing voice sounds familiar, I bet I actually read what you specifically had to say.

Ack, I'm caught, lol. Yeah, I'm sure I did post a little in that thread.

The subject wasn't foreign to me before crossplay came up, though. I took a class at the uni about equality for people with disabilities, and bathroom accessibility is always a hot issue for anyone who uses a wheelchair.


I have to agree with this as my partner was going to crossplay at this con if he could have gotten his crossplay together in time. This could have been a particularly serious problem as he is a pretty effeminate male anyways and our room was on the 15th floor with 10+ min travel times from the lobby to our floor at times this could have created a problem. We have had issues at cons before as a openly gay couple with biggots I could just imagine what it would have been like if he had been crossplaying.

This thread was created with the idea of convenience in mind...your safety is a bigger issue. While staff can't really guarantee your safety outside the con space, consider the hotel your sanctuary. If people start treating you badly anywhere within con space, especially as a result of your sexuality, the con has a right to defend you, since it's our business. The hotel will probably cooperate with the con in reprimanding (and sometimes even removing) people who mistreat attendees.


Yeeesss, that would be more fun! Yah, maaaybe when I pseudo-volunteered I didn't imagine myself physically in the bathroom. *cough* I'm not the greatest at thinking ahead. Anyhoo! The Salvation Station, yes, that set-up would work quite well, I'd think!  Maybe? Again, not good at thinking ahead. *headdesk*

Great, I'm glad you like the idea. :) But now we really need to talk to somebody who was involved with the repair station, or has been in the past... (I'm not sure what happened once Von Dan ditched the con; he had some repair supplies and was trying to get a repair station going during 2007)
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Offline Rathany

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #40 on: September 07, 2008, 01:38:10 am »
Two little rolly suitcases labeled 'Cosplay Repair Supplies' got put in the prog suite this year.  So, cosplay repair stuff exists amoung con stuff. 
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Offline Mister_manji

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #41 on: September 07, 2008, 10:04:47 am »
Two little rolly suitcases labeled 'Cosplay Repair Supplies' got put in the prog suite this year.  So, cosplay repair stuff exists amoung con stuff. 
It got moved to creation station, because prog didn't have any room, or ability to repair costumes.
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Offline Radien

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #42 on: September 07, 2008, 09:43:18 pm »
Two little rolly suitcases labeled 'Cosplay Repair Supplies' got put in the prog suite this year.  So, cosplay repair stuff exists amoung con stuff. 
It got moved to creation station, because prog didn't have any room, or ability to repair costumes.

That's probably for the best, but I'm not sure Creation Station had enough room to actually pull them out.

We might want to put them somewhere more centralized, though. And while we're at it, recruiting someone to replace Dan, since it seems we aren't going to be seeing much of him anymore, unfortunately...

I wonder if Maid Squad would be interested?
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Offline MistressLegato

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #43 on: September 07, 2008, 10:16:46 pm »
I'm curious why people who feel the need to use a gender specific bathroom don't just use the family friendly ones . . . any gender is allowed because it's one person at a time.

It's difficult to expect everyone to try to accomodate the very VERY few.

I understand the difficulty one may have with going through a change, but either use the one you look the most like (because if you look like a girl going to a girl's bathroom, nobody's going to say anything) or go to the one YOU'RE most comfortable with.  Most people aren't going to say anything if you look confident when entering.
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Offline BlackjackGabbiani

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #44 on: September 07, 2008, 10:56:30 pm »
I think it's because there's a difference between "most people" (which is true, most people wouldn't have a problem with it) and "all people" (wherin lies the problem).

Offline Radien

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #45 on: September 07, 2008, 11:36:49 pm »
I'm curious why people who feel the need to use a gender specific bathroom don't just use the family friendly ones . . . any gender is allowed because it's one person at a time.

It's difficult to expect everyone to try to accomodate the very VERY few.

I understand the difficulty one may have with going through a change, but either use the one you look the most like (because if you look like a girl going to a girl's bathroom, nobody's going to say anything) or go to the one YOU'RE most comfortable with.  Most people aren't going to say anything if you look confident when entering.

It's because gender-specific bathrooms are protected by law. You can look confident while entering, but that's just masquerading as the "correct" gender for the bathroom -- it only works if no one notices. Nobody likes the possibility of being noticed, and having to explain these things to hotel security, or the distant and unlikely (yet quite possible) event of the cops getting involved.

Anyway, if family-friendly bathrooms are available, all the better. That just means our task is to make sure we find out about them before con, and publicize them, even if that only means making the information available to the Info Desk.
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Offline Hawkeye

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #46 on: September 09, 2008, 06:11:11 pm »
I'm curious why people who feel the need to use a gender specific bathroom don't just use the family friendly ones . . . any gender is allowed because it's one person at a time.

It's difficult to expect everyone to try to accomodate the very VERY few.

I understand the difficulty one may have with going through a change, but either use the one you look the most like (because if you look like a girl going to a girl's bathroom, nobody's going to say anything) or go to the one YOU'RE most comfortable with.  Most people aren't going to say anything if you look confident when entering.
The reason for that is because to not at least try to have a gender neutral bathroom violates state and federal statutes against gender and sexual orientation discrimination.  The hotel may or may not have the facilities in order to do this, but it causes no harm for us to at least try so we can accommodate those attendees who are in gender transitioning, or if we have gay/lesbian couples who are afraid of discrimination.
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Offline Radien

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #47 on: September 09, 2008, 08:20:48 pm »
The reason for that is because to not at least try to have a gender neutral bathroom violates state and federal statutes against gender and sexual orientation discrimination.  The hotel may or may not have the facilities in order to do this, but it causes no harm for us to at least try so we can accommodate those attendees who are in gender transitioning, or if we have gay/lesbian couples who are afraid of discrimination.

Hey, I wasn't aware that those were protected by law as well. I guess not everything stays the same. :)

Anyway, this is obvious by now, but I totally support and encourage the pursuit of private and/or gender neutral bathrooms at con. So remember to bring it up at a meeting during director Q&A, sometime after the elections. (or at elections, if you're impatient, but I doubt Relations will have much of an answer so early in the year...give 'em a breather first)
« Last Edit: September 09, 2008, 08:23:35 pm by Radien »
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Offline Seraph

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #48 on: September 11, 2008, 12:38:19 am »
slightly off topic, but I felt this picture I took from penguin revolution really shows a crossplayer's dilemma

http://www.geocities.com/janus_97006/crossconfusion.bmp
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Offline TomtheFanboy

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Re: Crossplay Bathroom?
« Reply #49 on: September 12, 2008, 10:22:57 am »
I don't think this is going to happen. I'm looking at logistics. Each floor of the hotel only has one set of bathrooms.



I will check the main lobby for a family bathroom next time I am there. If there is one I will be SURE to add it to our maps.

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