Peacebonding on & totally unacceptable weapons

[Xella]

I know, it's kind of early to ask (since next year's dates haven't been announced officially yet), but it's something that just popped into my mind.

Live (read: sharp, pointy, and with the ability to cut things) steel isn't allowed at pretty much every con, that's a given.  What about "dead" steel—that is, for example, a sword that's still steel, but whose edges and tip are blunt and dull?

I might have the definition of live steel wrong (but that's how I'm taking it to mean), and I have no idea what the actual term for what I'm calling "dead" steel is (I've seen "practical," "stage," and "show" used for blunt-edged weapons of the sort).

Obviously, every and any weapon-like object would have to be peace bound, but some weapons aren't allowed full-stop and I was wondering if it was worth the trouble of ordering a "practical" sword now for customization to bring to Kumoricon next year (yeah, it would take me that long), or if the effort would be moot.  If I was going to start figuring out ways to carve, assemble, and realistically paint a wooden/plastic/cotton-the-fabric-of-our-lives version, I'd have to start relatively soon too, so...

Anyone with more con experience than I (pretty much everyone; one fanime and two Kumoricon thus far) or more cosplay experience (the first Kumoricon only =D;) would probably be able to answer this just as well as staff, but I'm the clueless one, so.

[Radien]

If it's something we can discuss without knowing where or when we're having the convention (and it is), it's never to early to ask. After all, staff meetings are essentially a bunch of people trying to decide the answers to different questions that have been asked throughout the year.

Now, I'm not security, but I have some experience with non-firearm weapon regulations, and I believe "live" steel does in fact mean "able to cut someone." After all, many prop swords are made partially out of metal; the distinction is whether it's merely something hard and sword-shaped -- and thus only capable of hurting someone if treated as a bludgeoning weapon in the hands of someone stupid -- or, actually sharp enough to hurt someone.

Now, security might be very picky about what is considered "dull," but if you're having it made to order, I'm sure you can easily get something that would fit the bill. Please wait until somebody from security confirms what I'm saying, but the way I see it, a completely dull sword is no different from a boken, or any other large, hard object.

[PvtChipsDubbo]

Hey K-Fans,

Well Xella, Radien pretty much covered it, the not-so-long version anyway, however I saw weapons that looked realistic (cut whatever you want to think in half) when I attended Otakon 2002 and they were of course fake (like foam) when I touched them.  I tend to simply judge matters like this based on individual skill.

As for KUMORICON I would have to say "live steel"...  What you could do is buy blades, replace them, dull them down, etc., or buy separate parts to a sword.  Of course this covers getting a sword and not a definition, so...

[princessfrodo]

Okay, here's the break down on swords.

Live steel (sharp blades of ANY type) are not allowed.  It may be really cool to have a real katana, but just bring a picture if you want to show it off, not the real sword.

Stage steel (blunt, non edged steel) is allowed, but must be peace tied.  I think you are required to have a sheath for it, I'll have to double check.  To be on the safe side, just get a sheath for it.  All of my stage steel have sheaths just to protect the blade, even if it is fake.

I hope that helped. ^.^

[zenix]

by not allowed u mean out of the scabard?

becuase i cant see how they would be not allowed at all when u can just go into the dealer room and buy them

[Dustin]

Live steel (sharp blades of ANY type) are not allowed.  It may be really cool to have a real katana, but just bring a picture if you want to show it off, not the real sword.

Ya know, I bet next year we see a Kenshin with a picture of his sword, trying to paper cut people.

That'll be so funny, even if its wrong, too.  

In my opinion (not that I have any say, its just an opinion), I think even if you only carry a prop weapon, please be careful.

I noticed alot of people brought kids to the event (I saw a couple with a baby in one of the video rooms. A young otaku!), and even if its a prop, I think it would suck to accidently hurt one of the kids.

Extra caution is advised, is what I am trying to say. Other than that, I think its perfectly cool to bring props and stuff. Loads of Naruto cosplayers had prop shuriken, nobody got hurt there, so, I think it all works out.

[kylite]

I am by no means the leading say on this but heres my 2 cents as volenteer security.

if the weapon hs an edge it must be blunt.  unable to cut.  period.  security personell WILL want to examine your weapon to check for this condition.  If they do PLEASE dont give them a hard time doing it as their just doing their job and trying to protect all who wish to attend the con.    

that said stage props look, and feel real but with no edge are totally acceptable.  BUT!!!!!  PLEASE dont go swinging it around as if in a real sword fight. (had to break up a few of those)  remember when ur swinging that these cons are crowded and u cant always see behind u.  

-Kylite
24/7 volenteer security

[princessfrodo]

Kylite is right.  Gods knows I chewed out Big Chris after the Con when I saw the pics of him weilding STELL REBAR in a room full of MIRRORS!!! >.<

If you wants to bring a prop sword, by all means do.  I'm bringing a stage katana for my Crazy 88 costume as well, but make sure not to weild it dangerously.  IF you want to pose for a pic, check around you carefully, and ask permission first, before posing.

That way you get lovely pictures and no one gets hurt, a plus on both sides. ^.^

Dueling and sparring is not allowed on con premisise, volunatirly or not.  The chances of someone getting hurt is simply too high, and I don't care if the participents are cosplaying nemesis of each other.  So don't make me lose my temper and kick you out of the Con for disobeying a safety rule.

Oh, if you do buy a REAL katana in the dealers room (I think they only sell stage steel, but I'm not sure), just store it in your room.  Your room is not part of the Con, so if you show it off to your friends, your room is fine.  Just on't murder anyone please, blood is a pain to get out of hotel sheets.

[Xella]

Most people take pictures of costumes they think are cool or costumes they know what are.  Anything I'd be cosplaying would be one of three possibilities:

- My characters (hey, it's really free advertising if you're in the dealer's room/artist's alley (please~ let them be one and the same again *__* That was so sweet.  But I digress.)
- Friends' characters (ditto on the free advertising, except I'm not selling stuff here
- Obscure/semi-obscure secondary characters from obscure/semi-obscure shows, so I can feel smart when informing people on who I am (first year Chin Isou, represent >D)
- (I lied, there's four) characters who wear "real clothes" so most people probably wouldn't guess I was in costume anyway (and so that, if I was doing something on the same suitcase, I'd have something to wear to non-con events)

Scabbards and sheathes are a must-have.  I don't care if it's just a balsa-wood sword, I would need a scabbard.  I'm not going to walk around with sword in hand all day—I'd just end up losing it somewhere or giving up on it and walking around sans-prop.  If I can't attach it to my costume so I don't have to hold it, I'm not going to do it, so that's not going to be an issue (I tend to build pockets into sleeves or behind belts for little doo-dad props, cash, credit cards, etc. anyway, so that's not a big thing).  So no worries on that front =D

Also, of the three character-types mentioned above, every one I can think of that I might do, if they pose with their object at all, it's in their personal space (or the vertical space above them), so no problems on hitting others.  Just un-sheating might be a problem, but hey, they don't teach you to look both ways before crossing a street so you don't trip on the curb =3 (that made no sense)

So yay, I think I'm good =D So long as I can get past my World of Warcraft obsessive-compulsiveness long enough to get money for materials, anything I could think to make should work fine ^^

(Dude, someone should so go as Paper Mario-Kenshin.  That would rock.  And I'm saying this as someone who hasn't seen Kenshin.)

[Radien]

BUT!!!!!  PLEASE dont go swinging it around as if in a real sword fight. (had to break up a few of those)  remember when ur swinging that these cons are crowded and u cant always see behind u.  

Yeah, that's why I decided not to bring my Master Sword boffer to the con. I was sure I wouldn't be able to use it anywhere near the hotel. Not to mention I was sure someone would have a prop sword that'd put it to shame. Plus no room in the car.

From what I've heard, it seems more likely that kids will get hurt by blunt objects than sharp ones. This is because people get very antsy when younger congoers touch live steel, but sometimes they'll let them handle heavy props without a second thought.

-Kylite
24/7 volenteer security

24/7? Does that mean I can call you at 4am for peacebonding questions?

....

Kylite is right.  Gods knows I chewed out Big Chris after the Con when I saw the pics of him weilding STELL REBAR in a room full of MIRRORS!!! >.<

Aiyaiyai... no, we don't exactly want a re-enactment of the Final Fantasy 7 random encounter transition....

Just don't murder anyone please, blood is a pain to get out of hotel sheets.

Yes, so be sure to bring a little extra money and leave your maid a big tip.


Anyway, Xella, have fun with your ultra-cool realistic (or just "real"?) sword props. You're very lucky to be able to get a custom job.

[Xella]

Ooh, here's another question that I can bring up on this thread since it's totally on-topic.

Bows.  Specifically, not the ribbony ones that you put in your hair or on your fuku, because obviously those are BANNED WITHOUT QUESTION >D

No, I'm talking like "Hah! I have the Shikon Jewel >D Nobody can stop me noooow~" "Inuyasha! >OO *shot*" kind of bows and accessories.  Kagomes, Kikkyos, Arjunas, random schoolgirls, Alex Bowspiritses... they've all got bows and arrows.  I might also have some (well, I have some arrows, I might be getting a nice traditional bow for the holidays =D).  If I wanted to use my actual trad. bow at con, what's a legal combination?  Is it...

- A bow and arrows, provided that there is no arrow-shooting (honestly, anyone dumb enough to knock, draw, and anchor—nevermind fire!—at con is not someone who should be at con anyway)
- A bow, no arrows, so that there aren't any projectiles to shoot
- A bow and arrows, but no string on the bow
- No bow, but arrows (which are duller than a half-sharpened pencil, if the one I have in front of me and the ones I used at school are any indication)
- Neither—but paper maché bows/arrows (or those little suction cup ones you get at the dollar store) are fine
- No bows or arrows in any way, shape, or form! >OOO

Let's see... are there any other weapons I can think of that aren't covered by "sword" (metal bladed) or "bow/arrow" (projectile) and that aren't already covered by most con guidelines (other projectiles, such as guns?... Maces are blunt objects, so that's not an issue (just get it peacebound).  Staves fall into the same category of "bluntage" unless they have a weird metal tip (see Xella-the-character's staff, which would fall under "stage steel or fake altogether").  Magic can't be peacebound unless it's fake, although sprinkling glitter around to simulate your magic should be banned for the mess it makes... halberds, spears, and other polearms are once again covered by "sword"... I think some con women should have their hands peacebound (ouch, nails xX;;), but that's neither here nor there... nope, that's all I can think of right now =D Just the bows.

[zenix]

i would guess a bow would be fine but the arrows maybe get some and cut off the tips  i would be sure to have a place to dump them for when u go on a food run

i am also getting sucked in by WoW great game

[princessfrodo]

Not official policy, that I know of, but DON'T BRING REAL ARROWS!!!  They are EXTREMELY dangerous weapons, with or without a bow.  I happen to have a few for some bizarre reason, and they are sharp and pointy, and live steel.

If you cut off the pointy metal part, they could probably be okay, check with the peace bond station.

For bows I suggest not bringing the bow string, and the solid bow part itself will be peacetied.  Bow strings are expensive the last time I checked, and they can be used as weapons, and it saves security the worry that's you're going to pull an unknown arrow from a sleeve and start striking people down in some bizzare wrath of vengence. ^.^;

[Xella]

Really? Oo The arrows I have (both at school and at home, back when I thought it was cooler than to have an actual arrow blu-taked to my wall) are duller than a half-sharpened pencil... which, while metal, are hardly what I would hardly consider live steel.  Are you sure your arrows aren't hunting arrows?  Those are definitely live, and some have serrated edges as well.  Target arrows don't have to go through anything harder than a piece of cardboard and a little bit of hay, and they're used repeatedly, so having them sharp would just be a liability to all involved and cause them to have to be replaced that much quicker.

Tho' I can certainly understand the bowstring thing... if that thing breaks, ow >o;;

[superjaz]

i don't think it would be too hard to make a foam/neft type materal tip , just paint silver and it should be okay or at least as safe as a pencil (this from the girl who once triped over a pencil and ending up stabed in the foot)

[princessfrodo]

Really? Oo The arrows I have (both at school and at home, back when I thought it was cooler than to have an actual arrow blu-taked to my wall) are duller than a half-sharpened pencil... which, while metal, are hardly what I would hardly consider live steel.  Are you sure your arrows aren't hunting arrows?  Those are definitely live, and some have serrated edges as well.  Target arrows don't have to go through anything harder than a piece of cardboard and a little bit of hay, and they're used repeatedly, so having them sharp would just be a liability to all involved and cause them to have to be replaced that much quicker.

I probably have hunting arrows.  I don't know why, but I asked my friend about such things (she's in a bunch of archery classes) and found out that target arrows would still be okay, as long as they're the dull ones.

My advice, maybe buy a few really cheap ones (beats me where, I don't know where to buy REAL ones ^.^; ), and just take off the metal tips.

I'll probably have more info on this after the meeting this Saturday. ^.^

[Radien]

Hmmm... arrows used as a weapon without bows...

That sounds like something out of Lord of the Rings, what with Legolas stabbing orcs in the eye with an arrow by hand before shooting it.

Anyway, are they really that dangerous? Even the ones used exclusively for hay bales? Just curious.

[princessfrodo]

Anything can be lethally dangerous if used properly. (I can strangle someone to death with my bra or shirt if I really felt the need, but that doesn't mean I'm going to peace bond most clothing ^.^; )

But yeah, arrows can poke out someones eye easily if some idiot goes running around a hallway with one, even if it is dull.  Or it could go up someones nose and pierce the brain, deafen a person if shoved in an ear, and all sorts of unpleasent things.

I need to stop to watching LOTR, I'm now thinking of how many ways to lethally attack a RingWraith with an blunt wooden arrow. ^.^;

[zenix]

lol youll shoot your out eye out
and u cant stop watchin lotr the 3rd special edition is almost out

how about this get a quiver (however u spell the thing that hold the arrows)
put a thick layer of epoxy in the bottem of it cut the tips off some arrows and stick in in the epoxy

[BakazokuChris]

aaahhhmmmm My pole (snorts with laughter I said my pole tee hee) was very secure and I didn't swing it and I have to say battle poses are a must for cons everybody knows this so battle poses are ok but not swinging weapons is that fair?? Frodo grilled me for have a pose with my pole (tee hee said it again) as I blocked clouds sword. Now as for seeing Frodo strangle somebody with her bra that would be interesting to see mmhmm.

[TomtheFanboy]

aaahhhmmmm My pole (snorts with laughter I said my pole tee hee) was very secure and I didn't swing it and I have to say battle poses are a must for cons everybody knows this so battle poses are ok but not swinging weapons is that fair?? Frodo grilled me for have a pose with my pole (tee hee said it again) as I blocked clouds sword. Now as for seeing Frodo strangle somebody with her bra that would be interesting to see mmhmm.

I think You covered everything I was thinking Chris!
So I think I'll just repeat the best part,
Chris can block the Buster Sword with his pole!
 :lol: