Weapons policy question

[TurboSaiyanJason]

What is the basic policy on realistic weapons and prop weapons and their handling in the con public? What is the policy for weapons in skits also?

[gothicadam]

its on the main site

[TomtheFanboy]

its on the main site

Geeze, you guys never learn....

http://www.kumoricon.org/?page_id=44


Props and Weapons

Props3 are a great way to enhance cosplay. Many props are considered valuable enhancements to a costume, and will be allowed in as such. If you have any props, proceed to the peace bonding station immediately after checking in. The staff will determine if your prop is acceptable within the Convention Space4. Props which are not allowed within the convention space include, but are not limited to:

Air-soft or projectile weapons
Live (sharp enough to cut) steel
Props wide enough or long enough to inhibit flow of traffic
Props deemed harmless by the staff, such as teddy bears, will be waved through. Any other prop deemed safe by the staff will be peace-tied. This is a tie attached to your prop which signals to all staff that your item is part of your costume and not unsafe to carry. It also signals that you have agreed to carry your prop safely. This means you will not brandish any prop weapon, engage in any mock fighting, or use your prop in any way which could be seen as unsafe.

[TurboSaiyanJason]

"This means you will not brandish any prop weapon, engage in any mock fighting, or use your prop in any way which could be seen as unsafe."

Here's where things get tricky. In my skit and outside before it begins I want to have a period where people are allowed to "use" their safe prop weapons in a turn based battle game. I would have 7 foam dragon balls scattered and hidden around the main convention areas. If someone find someone with a dragon ball and wants it, they have to challenge them to an RPG battle. Normally the girl or youngest or the shortest person would go first. the first player would start a hand to hand attack or announce that they are using their weapon and start their attack, then freeze in mid swing, while the opposing player freezes, ready to dodge/block the attack. They play rock/paper/scissors with their free hand.
Attacker wins , finishes momentum-less attack by tagging the defender and scores 1 victory point.
Defender wins, defender counters the attack and tags the attacker for 1 point.
Both tie, the defender simply blocks the attack.
Weapons score 2 points, but give 1 point to the defender if countered, and only if the attacker had 1 VP scored already. The first to reach 5 points would win the match, and one of the loser's dragon balls if any.

First would this RPG battle game be allowed because of its harmless attack nature as long as tagged prop weapons are used only? And would the dragon balls be allowed to be hidden?

[TomtheFanboy]

This isn't really a skit.
It sounds like an activity.

If you were on stage doing a skit in the cosplay contest then you could brandish weapons and play fight during your skit.

If you want to have people in the four corners (or 7) of the con space doing little mock battles with each other over your dragon balls then I would say no, it's not allowed. The convention rules would apply normally to those spaces and the con space is going to be very crowded as it is without people starting batles in doorways.

This is the reason that the Battle of the Bucket between the ninjas and the pirates only consists of rock-paper-scissors duels.

Now if I read your description appropriately your players will indeed be doing rock paper scissors while striking combat poses?

The brandishing rule is for safety and a bit of liability. Witnesses (security) may not know how real some pretend threats are and if you're waving some crazy prop in someone's face then there's always the change someone will get pushed by passers by and get a daikon radish in the eye. Not good.

So, focus your descriptions of this event and your explanation of the rules on the fact that you're not swinging the weapon and stopping. We don't want weapons being swung around for any reason in the general con space.

[TurboSaiyanJason]

Well, here are two other ideas that could provide enough space and supervision, though one of them is smashed between being in the public eye and under the crowded safety of the convention area.
1. The last Kumoricon I attended, there was an RPG room, which at the time I saw it, was totally empty. It turned into an unofficial hang out/relax room. If there is time before the cosplay contest, could the people who want to battle for the dragon balls do it in the RPG room when it's empty, since it is an RPG styled battle?
2. I was also thinking of the parking lot where there is soooo much space. The benefit, it would have sooo much room and be less crowded. The drawbacks, cars passing through the area, normal hotel visiters who might be concerned about the battles being actual fights, and calling the police on them.

A third idea was to limit weapon usage to the skit only and just have characters play rock/paper/scissors and/or use the power cards I would have with the dragon balls. This would take up less space in a shorter amount of time, and seem less harmless. It would also reflect the high speed battles that would be over in about a minute, that Dragonball Z is famous for. In that case, I would increase the points needed to wih the battle from 5 to 10, though the "battles" would still be quick, painless, and less space consuming, and most importantly less threatening to outsiders. Ontop of which, there would be less rules to have to explain if any.

[Jamiche]

Another option you would have for this would be to submit a panel/event form... you would then be able to have a space secured, and not rely on finding a place that's free, and it would be a sanctioned event, where you would have a bit (I'm not giving permission for full on fighting) more leeway in using your attacks.  You can always try to have this scheduled prior to the cosplay contest.

[TurboSaiyanJason]

On the side, I was thinking of holding a cosplay RPG tenkaichi budokai tournament (whew), where the weapons and battle posing would be allowed for players to use. I was thinking of doing that prior to the contest, like the day before, and inform everyone that comes about the dragon balls to be found and "played" for if they come across each other wanting one. This way also it would prevent anyone from missing out on their own prepared skit by accidentally finding a dragon ball. Though actually, I would still reward anyone who brought the dragon ball in, just if they had a skit of their own, they couldn't come up on stage and make their wish. So the panel thing I will consider. Heck, if I can get someone to cosplay as the ring announcer or the Grand Kai, as well as have a staff member to witness, I would have a referee to control the flow of the battles.

[TomtheFanboy]

This would probably be a good event to schedule in the same room as cosplay chess, your "tournament area" could maybe use the lines from the chessboard. It would also be less cleanup for the cosplay chess staff. 

[Jamiche]

It would... if it can be ran early Monday morning

[LtCommanderRichie]

Posting in here because I couldn't find it to begin with...

My lump-o-plastic doesn't say 'replica' on it anywhere... In fact, all it has on it is 'made in china', where to look in the manual to figure out how to load it, the model name and the size of plastic BB it takes. It doesn't even really look like a real rifle, it kinda looks like a pump shotgun with a pistol handle and one barrel. Does this mean it's not aerosoft? It's deactivated so that it can't cock and doesn't have a trigger, either. Is this alright?

[Hawkeye]

Bring it to the next general meeting if at all possible so kylite and I can make a decision on that.

[LtCommanderRichie]

I don't live in the Portland area, and I don't have a car. I can't go to the general meetings. Would pictures suffice?

[kylite]

If I may pitch an idea to help this along:

Stash the 7 Dragon Balls around the con for convention goers to find. Make sure each ball has a card with it telling the person where to go to turn it in. They then turn the balls in and their names are added to a list. Once all 7 balls are gathered, the winners will perform in a skit or space with your previous ideas. I can easily assign a Yojimbo to monitor the event if need be. The final winner to hold all 7 gains a single wish within your power.

Hows that sound?

In regards to the Airsoft weapon, we are not very forgiving on these things since a non functional weapon can become functional with the proper tools in a matter of minutes. Additionally there are parents, hotel staff, and Portland police all of which who over-react whenever any form of gun appears, metal, plastic, or hybrid. The only acceptable airsoft is one who's guts have been stripped and filled with cement. No exceptions.

[Kurosaki.Isshin]

About the weapons,


What is the maximum for a weapon size?

Because I am Doing Dr.Stein From Soul Eater and my friend his making me the Scythe, the scythe will be about 8ft long is that a hazard.

-Thanks,

[Sugarlat]

Well, lets say a "Friend" of mine will have a wooden keyblade.
My "Friend" will be switching cosplays during the con and Is wondering if they have to get the weapon checked everytime.
They're proably changing in one of the hotel rooms, so will they have to
keep the ribbon on the whole time even if there other cosplays don't have weapons?
Or will they have to check it every time?
What if they use it for all three days? Will they have to check it everyday also?

[babysugarbear28]

each weapon needs to be peacebonded once during the convention then it is good for the rest of the convention provided you follow the rules you agreed to when you peacebonded it.

[Sugarlat]

Thank very much!
I understand now!

[Daxe]

Posting in here because I couldn't find it to begin with...

My lump-o-plastic doesn't say 'replica' on it anywhere... In fact, all it has on it is 'made in china', where to look in the manual to figure out how to load it, the model name and the size of plastic BB it takes. It doesn't even really look like a real rifle, it kinda looks like a pump shotgun with a pistol handle and one barrel. Does this mean it's not aerosoft? It's deactivated so that it can't cock and doesn't have a trigger, either. Is this alright?

Firstly, its Airsoft. Not aerosoft. If it shoots plastic bb's regardless of how crappy it is, it is airsoft. And yeah chances are they wont ever let you use it. I recall one con where they told me I couldnt use an airsoft pistol unless I took out the internals. So I did, they didnt think I would do it I guess. So then they said I had to remove the slide... which defeated the purpose of it looking like a gun. Throughout the con I saw other people with airsoft pistols with no peace bonding. Didnt seem to get hassled for it either. : (
Moral of the story is... Dont expect to be able to use airsoft weapons as props... and its not cheating unless you get caught.

[katenator]

Plastic cap-guns, however, I assume are fine? As they don't fire anything, they just make noise?

[babysugarbear28]

airsoft is out of the question as far as the policy states but the non projectile plastic ones that can be seen to be fake from a distance are ok... probably best to paint the gun tip orange... *shrugs* this is where kylite or hawkeye would be useful they know better... msg one of them for a definite answer...

[Daxe]

Just another idea to toss out to the con administrators. You can get REALLY *censored* airsoft guns that are "replica's" in shape from wallmarts and such. But are completely see through. They look like toy versions of the guns. What are your thoughts on them?
http://images.buzzillions.com/images_products/05/05/crosman_pulse_r72_heavyweight_electric_reviews_626840_300.jpg
http://images.buzzillions.com/images_products/02/04/soft_air_usa_cyber_gun_defender_world_reviews_662922_300.jpg

[LtCommanderRichie]

That's what I have! It used to be made of clear plastic, but I painted it. Do I have to strip the paint off now for it to be allowed?

[Sugarlat]

As for guns anywhere it's a law that all fake guns must have the orange tip incase of false alarms and so that it can be recognized by officers.
But in a situation like a robbery if a real gun was painted with an orange tip they would still treat it like it was a fully loaded gun...
I saw it on tv...

[TomtheFanboy]

No airsoft.

Back me up here policy....

Props which are not allowed within the convention space include, but are not limited to:

Air-soft or projectile weapons
Live (sharp enough to cut) steel
Props wide enough or long enough to inhibit flow of traffic

http://www.kumoricon.org/?page_id=44

[NightLotus]

I have swords for my link costume... and it is steel, BUT ISN'T LIVE... The edge was somewhat rounded when i got it, and I sanded it down a bit more just to be sure. I heard somone saying that No steel was allowed.
Will my sword be:
-Not allowed
-Peace bonded to the sheath
-or allowed in
?
I have heard all of these things be said and would like a definitive answer becuase the Sword really makes the costume and i would HATE for it to be denied entrance!

[Higuma]

What about water guns?

[kylite]

in regards to the "sate steel" it is also not allowed. Peace bonding it into the sheath so that it cannot be drawn is acceptable as far as I am aware.

[NightLotus]

So The Peace bond will lash the handel to the sheath so it is unable to be drawn. I understand, but what color are the Peace bonds?

[Hawkeye]

NightLotus, e have no way of knowing what color our peace bonds will be, but I can try to find out.  Kurosaki.Isshin, an 8 ft scythe would be cutting it close, I'm edging towards saying no just for safety reasons but I'll have to confer with kylite on that one.  Water pistols will have to have the trigger peacebonded to the gun handle, otherwise I will say no.  I know it's just a water pistol, but if you're in gaming or something we really don't need our electronics getting damaged.  No steel weapons.  Period.  If you buy it from vendor hall, it goes straight to your hotel room or your car.  Please don't bring them into con space, if you wish to do photo shoots with them, try to schedule the photo shoots outside (NightLotus, I'm sorry about this but we have to abide by the rules).  Richie, you shouldn't need to strip the paint.  However, like kylite said, it will need to be completely gutted of any and all possible parts that would allow it to fire and it needs to be turned into a cement brick, otherwise we will not allow it.  Go ahead and pm me with a link to the pics though so I can see what you're referring to.  Daxe, your questions about see-through airsoft guns, replica or not, we still need it to be gutted and a cement brick.  Sugarlat, for your friend with the wooden keyblade, please have them give us an idea of the dimensions (length and width) so we can determine whether or not it'll be a safety concern.  Katenator, I will have to talk to kylite to double check, but I am inclined to believe that cap guns will not be allowed.  If the noise sounds at all like a gunshot to anyone, it could cause panic.  Finally, babysugarbear28 had it right, we will peace bond the weapon once when we see it, and you will be fine for the duration of the con.  Bear in mind for everyone though, when you have your weapon peacebonded it serves as a visual reminder that you agree to follow all rules regarding props.  Hope this answers most questions.

[TomtheFanboy]

As a note, the confusion over live steel and stage steel is due to the variety of Hotel policies over the years. Kind of like the mask policies, they are different from hotel to hotel. We've found it much easier to just not allow any of the metal weapons anymore so that we're always safe.

Yes metal. Just because you bring in a 3 ft blade that happens to be titanium or an iron grappling hook doesn't mean we're going to allow it in the con-space. The only metal weapons we'll be letting in are made of aluminum foil.

[Sugarlat]

It's a stick of wood about one yard.
It had cardboard for the attachments. It's not heavy, and it's only used as a cosplay prop so it only used in photos.
...I almost couldn't see that you mentioned my name in the post XD

[TomtheFanboy]

Sugarlat, that'll be fine. Just peace bond it like all the other keyblade wielders.

[NightLotus]

So I just got 2 different replies:

Peace bonding it into the sheath so that it cannot be drawn is acceptable as far as I am aware.

No steel weapons.  Period.  If you buy it from vendor hall, it goes straight to your hotel room or your car.  Please don't bring them into con space, if you wish to do photo shoots with them, try to schedule the photo shoots outside (NightLotus, I'm sorry about this but we have to abide by the rules). 

but I'm guessing you are saying NO METAL AT ALL...
If I remove the blade, or permanently attach the handle to the sheath (with glue/putty), will that then be allowed?
The sword really adds to the costume and I think they were really expensive, Is there anything I can do so that I can use them if The idea above doesn't work?
(they were a gift specifically for the con from my brother who is leaving and I would love to have them at the con for him )

[TomtheFanboy]

but I'm guessing you are saying NO METAL AT ALL...
If I remove the blade, or permanently attach the handle to the sheath (with glue/putty), will that then be allowed?
The sword really adds to the costume and I think they were really expensive, Is there anything I can do so that I can use them if The idea above doesn't work?
(they were a gift specifically for the con from my brother who is leaving and I would love to have them at the con for him )

Well you can always bring them to the convention. If the yojimbo say no you'll just have to take them up to your hotel room. Kylite has more authority than me in this matter so I defer to him.

[NightLotus]

Well you can always bring them to the convention. If the yojimbo say no you'll just have to take them up to your hotel room. Kylite has more authority than me in this matter so I defer to him.

Thanks for the reassurance!... I think I will do that! (and I will probably bind it into the sheath with a linen wrap beforehand anyway, because that is *somewhat* acurate)

[Hawkeye]

but I'm guessing you are saying NO METAL AT ALL...
If I remove the blade, or permanently attach the handle to the sheath (with glue/putty), will that then be allowed?
The sword really adds to the costume and I think they were really expensive, Is there anything I can do so that I can use them if The idea above doesn't work?
(they were a gift specifically for the con from my brother who is leaving and I would love to have them at the con for him )

Well you can always bring them to the convention. If the yojimbo say no you'll just have to take them up to your hotel room. Kylite has more authority than me in this matter so I defer to him.

You can have metal, it just needs to remain in your hotel room.  As far as attaching it to the sheath, I'll have kylite and myself talk to the operations director to see if he'll allow that since he technically overrules both of us.  If you want to detach it for photo shoots outside the hotel feel free to do so, just come to us and get it reattached before re-entering con space (again, subject to Ops decision).  Sugarlat, your keyblade will be fine.

[NightLotus]

but I'm guessing you are saying NO METAL AT ALL...
If I remove the blade, or permanently attach the handle to the sheath (with glue/putty), will that then be allowed?
The sword really adds to the costume and I think they were really expensive, Is there anything I can do so that I can use them if The idea above doesn't work?
(they were a gift specifically for the con from my brother who is leaving and I would love to have them at the con for him )

Well you can always bring them to the convention. If the yojimbo say no you'll just have to take them up to your hotel room. Kylite has more authority than me in this matter so I defer to him.

You can have metal, it just needs to remain in your hotel room.  As far as attaching it to the sheath, I'll have kylite and myself talk to the operations director to see if he'll allow that since he technically overrules both of us.  If you want to detach it for photo shoots outside the hotel feel free to do so, just come to us and get it reattached before re-entering con space (again, subject to Ops decision).  Sugarlat, your keyblade will be fine.

Thank you! I'm totally cool with the binding to the sheath! Thank you for going out of your way to help me!

[Hawkeye]

I'm just glad I was able to help out.  Also just as a reminder, yaoi/yuri paddles fall under the category of 'not allowed in convention space'.

[LtCommanderRichie]

Richie, you shouldn't need to strip the paint.  However, like kylite said, it will need to be completely gutted of any and all possible parts that would allow it to fire and it needs to be turned into a cement brick, otherwise we will not allow it.

Every internal part that can move has been rendered immobile (except the slide, but all the screws have been removed so it's basically just a loose piece of plastic) and the trigger has been removed completely, but I don't have access to cement. I'll see what I can do about photos.

[Hawkeye]

Richie, you shouldn't need to strip the paint.  However, like kylite said, it will need to be completely gutted of any and all possible parts that would allow it to fire and it needs to be turned into a cement brick, otherwise we will not allow it.

Every internal part that can move has been rendered immobile (except the slide, but all the screws have been removed so it's basically just a loose piece of plastic) and the trigger has been removed completely, but I don't have access to cement. I'll see what I can do about photos.

Works for me.  :-)

[LtCommanderRichie]

Really? I'll do that with all my prop guns, then.

[Hawkeye]

Sounds like you've got a good plan then, Richie.  Just remember as always if there are questions, feel free to ask.

[Radien]

You can have metal, it just needs to remain in your hotel room.  As far as attaching it to the sheath, I'll have kylite and myself talk to the operations director to see if he'll allow that since he technically overrules both of us.  If you want to detach it for photo shoots outside the hotel feel free to do so, just come to us and get it reattached before re-entering con space (again, subject to Ops decision).  Sugarlat, your keyblade will be fine.

Is binding the weapon into the sheath enough to allow us to carry a sword that hasn't been dulled, or does it need to be dulled first and *then* bound into the sheath?

I'm going to be buying a sword for my costume. It's actual metal, but I don't know if it comes sharpened or not. I suspect it does, as it is billed as a real sword, and you know how collectors are about that sort of thing. I have a whetstone and I could dull it myself, but I've never intentionally dulled a blade before and I'd feel uncomfortable relying on my own ability... thus, I would prefer to pay a blacksmith a few bucks to do it for me. However, I am not sure I'll be able to find someone to do it in time for the con.

Any feedback from Yojimbo? If none of this pans out, though, I have a silly Master Sword boffer (pvc, foam, and duct tape) that I could use as a substitute for this year; I'm sure that'd be acceptable even though it doesn't look terribly good. (Plus I wouldn't be able to sheathe it...)

[NightLotus]

well my master sword was billed as a 'real sword' and when i got it it was *kinda* sharp. Just to be sure I used smooth sand-paper and dulled it a tiny bit----> mine is being allowed so i think yours will probably be!
good luck!

[kylite]

Direct Quote

Props are a great way to enhance cosplay. Many props are considered valuable enhancements to a costume, and will be allowed in as such. If you have any props, proceed to the peace bonding station immediately after checking in. The staff will determine if your prop is acceptable within the Convention Space4. Props which are not allowed within the convention space include, but are not limited to:

    * Air-soft or projectile weapons
    * Live (sharp enough to cut) steel
    * Props wide enough or long enough to inhibit flow of traffic

Props deemed harmless by the staff, such as teddy bears, will be waved through. Any other prop deemed safe by the staff will be peace-tied. This is a tie attached to your prop which signals to all staff that your item is part of your costume and not unsafe to carry. It also signals that you have agreed to carry your prop safely. This means you will not brandish any prop weapon, engage in any mock fighting, or use your prop in any way which could be seen as unsafe.

Each prop will be dealt with on a case by case basis.

[Kumi-chan]

I have a question about signs; didn't know where else to post. The policies page says no signs that solicite anything ("Glomp me", "Free Hugs"; I'm assuming all "Will Yaoi for Pocky" signage is going to be against the rules). I've got no problems with that. It's a pretty standard con guideline.

What about signs that state the time and location of a photoshoot/meetup? Nothing else, no room party or questionable activities involved.

Example:
"series" shoot!
Sunday, 3:00 p.m.
Park

[kylite]

those kind of signs are fine.  basically solicitation signs are against the rules.

free hugs is one of those ones that is actually allowed as its not something for something, its something for nothing.

[nikkiolie]

I'm hoping that this is ok but I am still going to ask. I figure with all the homemade weapons it will be fine. I have a wooden sword. The only problem that I see is that it comes up to my chest and I am about 5'4"

[kurosakiichigo666]

Yarp, Just don't hit anyone with it and try to keep it out of the way of everything. Strapped to your person is the best bet.