women in anime please discuss

[superjaz]

hello guess what i'm gonna host a anime movie night at psu womens resorce center
yay woot!!!
i'm still working on the content to make up a proposle so me needs help 
what would good topic questions be
like how do we see nudity in anime as an american, as women (if your a women)
differnces in cultral points of veiw
also what topice would you LIKE to see discussed
i will post more info about this event when it surfaces

just any help would be apreshated in formulating this and making it happen
doomo

[melchizedek]

*Gasp*

[superjaz]

*Gasp*

i dont know that topic...

[MichaelEvans]

I think this depends on the anime, but Japan seems to have a similar world view of women as being more submissive (usually) then not.  Thinking over most female characters I've seen, especially in shōnen, this seems to be the general case.  Notable exceptions are that lead women can be cast in stronger rolls as almost tomboy supporting (ideal 'active' girlfriend) characters.  However it really depends on the type of manga/anime "Manga are often broken up into demographics such as kodomo (children), shōjo (young girls), shōnen (young boys), and josei (women)" (Wikipedia, Manga).

Another point of consideration is that I recall women in Japan as being repressed similarly to 'extremely traditional' (more unchanged since middle-ages or earlier) European, Muslim, and other notable middle-eastern/western societies until very recently.  If what I recall is actually the case, then even the slightly submissive rolls displayed are actually somewhat progressive, since the women are generally framed as choosing that roll, as opposed it it being forced upon them.

[totemo_oishii]

Perhaps discuss ... female antagonists as well? That would be interesting.

[MichaelEvans]

Perhaps discuss ... female antagonists as well? That would be interesting.

The only one to come to mind, is Carmen Sandiago (sp).

[superjaz]

i dont know their names but they some bad chickys in inu yasha

[Rathany]

The recent anime Seirei no Moribito might be an interesting one to discuss, but watching the whole series would be kind long.  

Hrrmm...  I need to figure out how to do one of those 'hi-light to read' things so I can do a summary of the first few eps without spoiling peoples.  

[reppy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clamp_%28manga_artists%29 <3

[melchizedek]

Jagura in wolfs rain was a major bad chick.   She had a whole army, took out all her enemies.

Turns out her motivation was just to get a guy she thought was hot though.

[Mecha Mecha Media]

I am not sure how many truly "traditional" female characters we see, and would say the diversity of female roles is probably at the same level as the diversity of male roles.

Female leads are not always sexualized (Blood+, Pumkin Scissors, The Third, Lain, Kurau) even in more mature titles. Even in titles where the lead women are sexualized, they still often hold the power (Welcome to the NHK, 0091, Cutie Honey, Dirty Pair)

Sexy doesn't necessarily mean sexist.

[leashy]

I would like to discuss the concept of japanese school girls who idolize fellow female classmate, for example in Utena or Brother dead Brother

[superjaz]

ooo a point i just thought of, in american version of inu yasha there is a character that is male and they make him a girl and the 'cousins' sailor moon

[BlackjackGabbiani]

I would like to discuss the concept of japanese school girls who idolize fellow female classmate, for example in Utena or Brother dead Brother

She's not a classmate, but Yolei from Digimon Adventure 02 has a crush on the slightly older Mimi (and daydreams about her in a very Utena-eque scene)

[ThiefKingsHier]

ooo a point i just thought of, in american version of inu yasha there is a character that is male and they make him a girl and the 'cousins' sailor moon

That has nothing to do with females. Its about Americas aversion to homosexuality.


Which is a differant rant entirely.
 

[superjaz]

ooo a point i just thought of, in american version of inu yasha there is a character that is male and they make him a girl and the 'cousins' sailor moon

That has nothing to do with females. Its about Americas aversion to homosexuality.
Which is a differant rant entirely.

no but it does include differnces in cultural points of veiw which is in the first post as an idea women in anime is a starting point, and as i am still planning this event (whole reson for this thread) its not set in stone
please don't post unless you have a an idea for a discution topic,

[jaybug]

I think Sakura Aoi, from Ai Yori Aoshi would be the categorized as the idealized Japanese female. Very quiet and reserved, works like a slave, and never complains, goes through hell and high water for her man, and has a nice rack.

Tina Foster, from the same series would be seen as a typical American female from the Japanese male point of view; loud, obnoxious, fixated with other women's breasts, and drinks like a fish.

For me, the most truly evil woman in anime would be the one from Bible Black. And I am sure you want to show your women hentai. eep

It seems to me that most characters, let alone women, run to extremes of personality. I guess any less may make a boring character, especially if they are "good" as opposed to evil. So I think that a more realistic female anime character would be a secondary figure to the show. One example if Fee Carmichael, from Planetes. She's the captain of her little ship, and she could have had more to life, as she was a company founder. She did leave her husband and son back on earth, but everyone leaves their loved ones back on earth in this show; to follow her dreams. Oh, and she smokes cigarettes!

[Mecha Mecha Media]

I think Sakura Aoi, from Ai Yori Aoshi would be the categorized as the idealized Japanese female. Very quiet and reserved, works like a slave, and never complains, goes through hell and high water for her man, and has a nice rack.

Tina Foster, from the same series would be seen as a typical American female from the Japanese male point of view; loud, obnoxious, fixated with other women's breasts, and drinks like a fish.

For me, the most truly evil woman in anime would be the one from Bible Black. And I am sure you want to show your women hentai. eep

It seems to me that most characters, let alone women, run to extremes of personality. I guess any less may make a boring character, especially if they are "good" as opposed to evil. So I think that a more realistic female anime character would be a secondary figure to the show. One example if Fee Carmichael, from Planetes. She's the captain of her little ship, and she could have had more to life, as she was a company founder. She did leave her husband and son back on earth, but everyone leaves their loved ones back on earth in this show; to follow her dreams. Oh, and she smokes cigarettes!

Without having seen Ai Yori Aoshi I get a little nervous when we make statements like the "idealized Japanese female" is "Very quiet and reserved, works like a slave, and never complains". I do know I am new here, and maybe I am missing something, but not only is that image in the minority in anime females, I think it is an image of the "idealized Japanese female" that probably went out with washing clothes in streams.

What we call "quiet and reserved" is a Western misread of subtle communication. "Quiet and reserved" doesn't mean out of control. It means she doesn't have to scream to get her way.

[Hei]

Hmmm, Azumanga Daiyoh has a great example of girl on girl idealization/crush.

But anyways, if you're looking for a good movie to screen, Paprika is a great one.  Strong, mysterious protagonist with weird split-personality thing. That could spark some discussion.

Oh, and is this going to be a women-only thing? I'd like to go if you show some good stuff (such as my suggestion), but if it's going to be the opposite of a sausage-fest, I'd be pretty self-conscious

[leashy]

ooo a point i just thought of, in american version of inu yasha there is a character that is male and they make him a girl and the 'cousins' sailor moon

  In Sailor moon dubbed version they also turned one of the enemies in the first season into a girl; Zoicite.

Hmmm, Azumanga Daiyoh has a great example of girl on girl idealization/crush.

That is weird that Azumanga Daioh slipped my mind, it is a great example haha

[Kumi-chan]

Which Inuyasha villain did they turn into a woman? The only one I can think of there being confusion on is Jakotsu, and he was only voiced by a woman (both in English and in Japanese). He's referred to as male within the series, even in the dub.
Maybe I'm missing someone?

I can't recall if it's been mentioned, but Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex is an excellent series if you're looking for a strong female character.

I also really like a couple of Satoshi Kon's other works, Millenium Actress and Tokyo Godfathers. Millenium Actress especially.

The Ghibli films are also well-respected for their portrayal of strong female characters. Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind, Kiki's Delivery Service, and Princess Mononoke are all good choices. For a less well-known film, try Porco Rosso.

[leashy]

Which Inuyasha villain did they turn into a woman? The only one I can think of there being confusion on is Jakotsu, and he was only voiced by a woman (both in English and in Japanese). He's referred to as male within the series, even in the dub.
Maybe I'm missing someone?

Actually she didn't say villian, I think she was referring to Shippou, that is the only one I can think of

[Kumi-chan]

Ah, I think it was someone else talking about Sailor Moon enemies that threw me off. Shippou's still a boy in the dub, though, even if he's voiced by a woman. Not that uncommon for young male characters.

[ThiefKingsHier]

 Heres one; women can ONLY be 'badass' if they dress like tramps.

Ex: I Just started playing FF 12 today. Ashe, is a princess and no the first. However unlike every FF other princess/cleric lead female role, she dresses, well like a tramp. Also, she is the only princess character to not be all sweet and innocent.

Really, its no differant from the way female characters are portreyed in America.  I guess that would be general conscenous on this issue.

Except for Lolis. Theyre far more acceptable in Japanese media. Disturbing really.

[superjaz]

Hmmm, Azumanga Daiyoh has a great example of girl on girl idealization/crush.

But anyways, if you're looking for a good movie to screen, Paprika is a great one.  Strong, mysterious protagonist with weird split-personality thing. That could spark some discussion.

Oh, and is this going to be a women-only thing? I'd like to go if you show some good stuff (such as my suggestion), but if it's going to be the opposite of a sausage-fest, I'd be pretty self-conscious

paprika would be a good anime to screen, am jsut wondering if i want to do a mix of episodes or a movie

and yes guys are welcome to come please do we are very guy friendly at the wrc, theres even a mens group on campus called men against rape

[superjaz]

Ah, I think it was someone else talking about Sailor Moon enemies that threw me off. Shippou's still a boy in the dub, though, even if he's voiced by a woman. Not that uncommon for young male characters.

your right my bad a friend whos a big yasha fan told me that and when i saw Jakotsu on cartoon network I thought they made him into a girl, tho its no big i can still use the sailor moon as an example

[Crystal]

I think you could generate a really interesting discussion centered around same-sex idolization / idealization / crushes in school-settings, partially because it is so different from most American's expectations for what is appropriate for "children's shows" ie cartoons and what is appropriate to show children and young people doing on television. Also, the question immediately arises as to whether these relationships represent strictly homosexual-romantic or asexual-romantic or even marginally non-romantic feelings. How does japanese media's treatment of same sex attraction different from the social realities in Japan today? In the US this sort of discussion immediately gets pulled in the direction of morality and social tolerence. But I get the sense that neither of those two conciderations are really realted to this issue within Japanese society.

Some more anime on that topic could include:

Happiness
Cardcaptor Sakura
Oroun Host Club - the Lobellia episodes
Kaladio Star

Another thing I have been thinking about is male-female and female-male violence in romantic relationships in anime. Isn't it intresting that you hardly ever see male-female violence (except in hentai) but there are plenty of instances where female-male violence is perfectly acceptable.

The anime that really got me thinking about this is Full Metal Panic Fumoff. In Fumoff there is a running gag where Chidori hits, kicks, punches or otherwise clobers Sousuke whenever he says something she conciders weird. This is especially poinent because she is supposedly a peaceful civilian and he is a "violent" military character. There are times where he expresses fear of her reaction to his mistakes and by the end of the show you can't help but feel sorry for the guy, being trapped in what is basically an abusive relationship.

Violence against men is such a common device in harem-style shows that it gets annoying. It makes me want to create a support group for all these poor guys who are victims of spousal abuse.

It is obviously supposed to be funny. But what makes it funny? Is it really funny? I don't laugh at those particular jokes. Why isn't it funny when a woman gets hit by a man?

Love Hina
Sister Princess
Inuyasha
Ranma
...about a hundred other shows...

[BlackjackGabbiani]

It is obviously supposed to be funny. But what makes it funny? Is it really funny? I don't laugh at those particular jokes. Why isn't it funny when a woman gets hit by a man?

I think it's because men supposedly have an "advantage", what with tending to be more muscular, so for a man to hit a woman, even in jest or fighting for his life, he's seen as hitting a "weaker" opponent.

I've read that when Street Fighter II came out, people playing as Chun Li found themselves at an advantage because their male-playing opponents were reluctant to hit a woman, even a digital professional fighting woman.

Although I still laughed my ass off when Brock clocked Misty in an early Pokemon episode. I wish I could remember which ep it was.

[MichaelEvans]

Misty, especially the early Misty when I was still watching Pokemon (Mostly due to lack of other free anime), (And oh how I Cringe when I surf past an airing of a newer episode and hear Ash's new voice/voice actor... x.x), started off...  I'll try to refrain from swearing so, rude, short tempered, one track mind.  At one point she probably deserved getting clocked because that's just how bad she was.  Yet her character grew and became more tolerant and enlightened.

[Kumi-chan]

In most cases where it's the girl who's getting "violent", it's presented as ridiculously so...similar to Looney Tunes violence. I mean, Naru sends Keitaro flying Team Rocket style into the stratosphere with her punches or Akane flattens Ranma with a ludicrously oversized wooden mallet. It's slapstick comedy.

I recently read some of Lovely Complex, a very funny shojo series. The main girl character slaps the guy upside the head to snap him out of a funk. Later, he does the same for her. The series is set in the Osaka area, and much of the humor is based in the manzai tradition (which I believe is where Chidori's habit of whacking Sousuke with a harisen comes from...he's acting the boke, or fool, so she pulls the classic tsukkomi move and smacks him). I'm pretty sure I've seen similar behavior, equal opportunity comic violence, in other comedy series. Just look at Excel Saga. Illpalazzo kills or maims Excel for her stupidity as a running joke.

Besides, a harem series isn't really the place to look for enlightened gender relations. The best one I can think of is Ai Yori Aoshi (which has a very deep and moving storyline behind the requisite fanservice). Abuse is treated realistically there, and discussed seriously by the main characters.

[superjaz]

i just want to say thanks for all the help, now just working on a date and rounding out the line up
yay!!!

[Washougal_Otaku]

Perhaps discuss ... female antagonists as well? That would be interesting.

The only one to come to mind, is Carmen Sandiago (sp).

Sandiego

[BlackjackGabbiani]

There's a fair amount of female villians and antigonists in Pokémon. Jesse, Cassidy, Hunter J, Domino, Molly Hale (YES she counts!), Annie and Oakley, Isabel/Shelly (they changed her name after her first appearence to synch with the games, but most people like her original dub name better), Saturn and Mars (who have yet to show up on the show, but they're major players in the games, so odds are good that they'll show up), and a bunch of unnamed Evil Team members.