Author Topic: This is a complaint  (Read 4836 times)

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Offline Daystar

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This is a complaint
« on: August 31, 2004, 04:54:19 pm »
hello... at this point in time i am going to complain about you minor policy (yes i am whineing) i really find it unfair that an almost public event wont even allow 17 year olds to go there without a baby sitter. your policy for people under 16 makes sense but needing to be watched like a little kid is an insult to my age bracket. not everyone has parents who are willing to give up an entire weekend on a convention. and not everyone has 18 yearold friends in this state who can go. you honestly got my hopes up then spring an age limit onto the thing at the last minute... so i would like to ask...
can some one please explain the purpose of the age limit, is it hotel or it is you guys? and why cant you trust minors to be responsible?
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Offline PezCat

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« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2004, 05:40:11 pm »
I can sum it up in one word:

Legality.

"Trust" has little or nothing to do with it, actually.  The vast majority of 17-year-olds are quite capable of watching themselves and behaving without "babysitting."  Not only do I agree, but I can virtually guarantee you most of the other staff does as well.

However, the problem here is that it's not really our call.  We have to implement the minor policies we do so that we can do things like convince the hotel to let us have the con there, purchase insurance for the con, show specific materials at the con - basically we have to have said minors policy in place so that we can have the convention at all.  Without the policy, we're a lawsuit waiting to happen.

I understand that it's a pain in the neck, and despite the fact that most (if not all) of us on staff are immune to it personally, we do feel badly for it.  But it's honestly the only way we can afford to put on the convention.  If there weren't a legal issue, we likely wouldn't care nearly as much.  But I don't think anyone on the con staff can afford to get sued, so that's kind of the look we have to take on this.

We really can't blame the hotel, as they have their own legal issues to deal with, and we have to follow the rules.  So honestly, if you want someone to blame, I'd go after the lawyers.  It's always their fault anyway, this time we just have proof.

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Offline Daystar

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« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2004, 08:11:10 pm »
thank you... i think my momentray period of whineing is over...  :oops:
i sent an e-mail to one of the e-mail addresses on the contact page (before i wrote this so it was much more polite) and got a reply... the guy who replyed gave me the same explanation aswell as a workaround for it and for that i thank him and you... for putting up with my fumeing you will see me bright and early satuday morning.  :D
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Offline PezCat

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This is a complaint
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2004, 08:17:39 pm »
Hmm... Let me think about it... okay, I forgive yas!  'sides, you're coming to our con, how can I not?  =^~.~^=

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Offline SailorNaboo

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This is a complaint
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2004, 08:27:18 pm »
It's OK.

We were all there at one time.  You can say it loud and proud if you want:

It sucks to be an almost legal adult!

Obviously the magic ages in society are arbitrary.  Full prices for a movie once you're 13, but you can't see the "good stuff."  Not being able to drive at 15 and 9 months...like three more months will make you a better driver.  Voting at 18, drinking at 21.  Or even President at 35.  What's so special about being 35 that has something that a 34 year old can't do?

It would be nice if people weren't so lawsuit crazy that it ruins it for the others that would never cause any trouble.  I hope you find someone. If you do, maybe you'll meet some people around your age in a similar situation (about a year younger) and you can help them out next year?
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Offline Daystar

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« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2004, 09:44:37 pm »
yeah... it was sean larson who replied to my e-mail... he told me that if my parents wrote a note excusing you of the convention of liabilities for my being there and placing my well being into my own care it would work for me not to have a gaurdian... so thats what im going to do if thats still ok... i made sure that the note is rocksolid too... hope no one is upset by my posting this up but id hate to get there and have the note refused.
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Offline Radien

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« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2004, 10:20:27 pm »
Quote from: "Daystar"
yeah... it was sean larson who replied to my e-mail... he told me that if my parents wrote a note excusing you of the convention of liabilities for my being there and placing my well being into my own care it would work for me not to have a gaurdian...

Excellent. ;) Isn't it nice when there's an easy solution to legality issues?

Actually, I really would have liked for you to be there when we were discussing the minor policies for KumoriCon 2003. You would have seen how lax the staff wants to be. After all, the 16-17 age range makes up a huge portion of our attendance, which is why we're still remaining a "PG-13" con.

Virtually everyone on the staff is either college age or younger, or has specific reasons to be sympathetic to teenage fans. For me, it was because I attended my first con at age 20, and ended up making friends with a bunch of minors age 15-17. I'm not one to get in trouble in such a situation, but I had to learn a few lessons about keeping them out of trouble, as a friend. (Ask me sometime about the two 17-year olds stuck at Sakura Con without a room at 2am, well past curfew)

Now they're all legal adults, though, and everything's cool. It may suck to be almost-legally-adult, but the upside is that it doesn't suck for very long. :)
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Offline SailorNaboo

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« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2004, 12:34:49 pm »
Quote from: "Daystar"
yeah... it was sean larson who replied to my e-mail... he told me that if my parents wrote a note excusing you of the convention of liabilities for my being there and placing my well being into my own care it would work for me not to have a gaurdian... so thats what im going to do if thats still ok... i made sure that the note is rocksolid too... hope no one is upset by my posting this up but id hate to get there and have the note refused.


When it comes to decisions about Kumoricon, Sean has Root!

What he says rules.
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This is where I got my import Para-Para game:
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Offline Daystar

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« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2004, 01:07:35 pm »
that is very cool. im glad we worked this out so easily... lol

now i can go have lots of fun and so can my parents (doing somthing different)  :D
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Offline shadowfox

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« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2005, 04:02:28 pm »
i almost had the same problem at kcon last year, at least i had a friend who was 19 that went with us (willingly, we didnt drug her ^.~)
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Offline Neko_Chan

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« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2005, 08:46:49 pm »
So, if we go to the con (I'm 14...) We have to have an adult watch/be with us, 24/7? ;--; I'm Red-cross certified for babysitting. xDD So I don't need one. -whispers- That won't work, will it?
Or can it just be someone at the con who we know who is older than 18, who can check in with us on a regular basis?

Offline PezCat

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« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2005, 09:04:08 pm »
Quote from: "Neko_Chan"
So, if we go to the con (I'm 14...) We have to have an adult watch/be with us, 24/7? ;--; I'm Red-cross certified for babysitting. xDD So I don't need one. -whispers- That won't work, will it?
Or can it just be someone at the con who we know who is older than 18, who can check in with us on a regular basis?


Okay, here's how it works:

Under 13:  With parent/guardian at all times.  Guardians must be at least 18 years of age.

Age 13-17:  Either (a) with parent/guardian at all times, OR (b) have minors consent form completed and delivered to Kumoricon (either mailed in with snail mail registration, or completed at the con registration desk by both attendee and parent).  This allows the minor to roam about freely without direct parental supervision, though local curfew laws must still be obeyed.

Age 18+:  You're an adult, act like one (mostly) and you're fine.

As for the fact that the bloody consent forms are not on the site yet, I have officially entered "angry monkey with giant hammer" mode.  I have asked for these things repeatedly (as I don't have them myself, and lack the capability to post such things on the site even if I did), and they have not been posted.  And the stinkin' thing is DONE.  It just needs posted.  So I will be beating people on Thursday for this thing, because it is royally pissin' ME off that they aren't up yet, despite my constant hounding.

But yes, they will be up soon, and no, you don't need to be with a parental figure constantly unless you're 12 years or younger.

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Offline Neko_Chan

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« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2005, 09:07:56 pm »
Quote from: "PezCat"
Quote from: "Neko_Chan"
So, if we go to the con (I'm 14...) We have to have an adult watch/be with us, 24/7? ;--; I'm Red-cross certified for babysitting. xDD So I don't need one. -whispers- That won't work, will it?
Or can it just be someone at the con who we know who is older than 18, who can check in with us on a regular basis?


Okay, here's how it works:

Under 13:  With parent/guardian at all times.  Guardians must be at least 18 years of age.

Age 13-17:  Either (a) with parent/guardian at all times, OR (b) have minors consent form completed and delivered to Kumoricon (either mailed in with snail mail registration, or completed at the con registration desk by both attendee and parent).  This allows the minor to roam about freely without direct parental supervision, though local curfew laws must still be obeyed.

Age 18+:  You're an adult, act like one (mostly) and you're fine.

As for the fact that the bloody consent forms are not on the site yet, I have officially entered "angry monkey with giant hammer" mode.  I have asked for these things repeatedly (as I don't have them myself, and lack the capability to post such things on the site even if I did), and they have not been posted.  And the stinkin' thing is DONE.  It just needs posted.  So I will be beating people on Thursday for this thing, because it is royally pissin' ME off that they aren't up yet, despite my constant hounding.

But yes, they will be up soon, and no, you don't need to be with a parental figure constantly unless you're 12 years or younger.

PezCat


Ohhh. :3 Thank you PezCat! That really clears it up.

Offline eerielunarose

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This is a complaint
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2005, 11:23:47 pm »
For those of you who may not have seen it, since it is on the registration page, the Parental Consent Form for minors is up on the main site under registration (Thank you Ryan). Please get it filled out if you haven't yet and have already preregistered, and make sure it gets to us.
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Offline SailorNaboo

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This is a complaint
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2005, 11:33:41 pm »
Quote from: "Daystar"
thank you... i think my momentray period of whineing is over...  :oops:
i sent an e-mail to one of the e-mail addresses on the contact page (before i wrote this so it was much more polite) and got a reply... the guy who replyed gave me the same explanation aswell as a workaround for it and for that i thank him and you... for putting up with my fumeing you will see me bright and early satuday morning.  :D


You are welcome to whine about it all you want as long as you understand that it isn't our fault.  :)  I don't think anyone of us that are over 18 have forgotten what it felt like.

It's like when you are 15 and 11 months, what's so magic about one more month that will make you a better driver?  Same thing when you are 17 almost 18.

If others on line complain about you complaining too much, you can email me any time.  When you are 20, you can complain about not being able to gamble in Los Vegas until you are 21 (and the drinking thing too).  When you are 24 I'll listen to how it's not fair that it's almost impossible to rent a car until you are 25 and when you are 34, I'll listen to how much it sucks that you have to wait another year before you can run for president!  

 :wink: I'm teasing a bit, but I'm also serious.  I'll listen anytime.
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This is where I got my import Para-Para game:
<a href="http://www.play-asia.com/SOap-23-83-v8l-71-8g-84-j-70-2hp.html"><img src="http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-1e-74-1p.html" alt="Play-Asia.com"></a&

Offline PezCat

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This is a complaint
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2005, 11:56:53 pm »
Quote from: "eerielunarose"
For those of you who may not have seen it, since it is on the registration page, the Parental Consent Form for minors is up on the main site under registration (Thank you Ryan). Please get it filled out if you haven't yet and have already preregistered, and make sure it gets to us.


YAY!  Thus endeth the PezCat "angry monkey with giant hammer" mode!  =^~_~^=

PezCat
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Offline Kei-Kei

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« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2005, 08:37:18 am »
I'm making an assumption here, but the city's Minor policies come somewhat into effect as well, don't they?

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Offline PezCat

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« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2005, 05:06:38 pm »
Quote from: "Kei-Kei"
I'm making an assumption here, but the city's Minor policies come somewhat into effect as well, don't they?


Yes, they do.  I believe that the way Kumoricon's policies are written, the are to be included within city ordinance, as opposed to "instead of."

PezCat
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