Author Topic: Cosplay Contest Improvements  (Read 8804 times)

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Offline Nyco27

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Cosplay Contest Improvements
« on: February 14, 2007, 01:49:03 pm »
Over the past few years our cosplay contest has slowly been declining in participants and I was wondering why. Im also wondering how I can make the cosplay contest go more smoothly so people don't waste half their convention waiting in meetings and other obnoxiousness just to participate. I know, the 8am mtg idea is dumb, but is there anything else I can do to make the cosplay contest better?

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Offline TomtheFanboy

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« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2007, 03:30:44 pm »
Cattleprods.


Seriously though. Having the forms up as soon as possible will help but it's never a sure thing (I've never managed to get one before the pre-meet, even in 2006). The forms should be available at the info booth as soon as the convention starts.

We should be able to turn in our forms at the premeet and then leave as soon as possible. I know there's a lot of rules and last minute changes to go over but maybe this can be done quicker if there's someone who explains things to the groups and someone who yells at the techs. At the very least the people with no special effects (multiple mikes, music, lights) should be let loose.

Something else that might cut down the pre-meet time is scripts. If people can hand in scripts early and then get a thumbs up or thumbs down on things (like the masturbate joke that Dokuro-kun's skit lost) then they'd know what had to be fixed before they are in the off-stage area during the show. This would only apply to a percentage of the cosplayers but the groups with the best idea of their skit ahead of time are also usually the biggest. If the NitN gang had been able to hand over their scripts and their forms then a lot of them could have enjoyed more of the convention.

In a few rare cases, actual on stage rehearsals help a lot. If we want/need it for set or lighting then we should be given a chance to "explore the stage" if we want to invest the pre-show time in such endeavors. Again, the improv people who'll be making up their jokes in line should be allowed to wander off whenever they want as long as their forms are in.

I wouldn't mind being there at 8am if I didn't need to stay longer than 5 minutes.

However, above all, the main thing I can suggest to make the cosplay contest finally take that final step to total awesomeness is CCTV. If we're going to be in another room while people perform we should be able to see our competition. Not just so we can enjoy it, but so we can see that people actually WERE better than us and be less bitter about it later. I still wish that I'd seen Go Going Merry and Ninja In the Night.

EDIT: Oh hey, I forgot one since I was posting this at work (and not on a break either, heh).
The people that wish to have their costumes judged could all gather up on stage at once at the beginning of the show and have their awards presented then. That way there's less for the judges to do at the end. The costume entrees could actually be judged in main events area before seating begins and possibly given preferred seating up near the stage if they wanted to stay for the whole event. That way the people in super elaborate costumes don't have to wear theirs for the entire event if they don't want to.

Something tells me this has already been suggested, or even done before, now that I type it. Hrmm. :?
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Offline Vondan

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« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2007, 04:15:52 pm »
Yeah like tom said,

The first thing is to have all the rules, forms and times in place as early as possible and then promote, promote, promote

if it is something like

check in 10:00 to 12:00

Cosplay Show 3:00


If the live stage is set up and ready by 10:30 then as soon as each person or group is done with check in for the script and costumes and what else send them to the stage to get a look at it and get a feel for it and ask questions about the set up and ask for any extras with a crew person who is tracking what each group wants set up.  That gives each group 3 hours to have a little rehearsals time on or off stage

And try not to schedule any panels that would appeal to cosplayers during the cosplay show, that way they don’t have to choose one over the other or miss check in and rehearsal due to going to a panel.  

From 10 am to 5 that day only schedule non cosplay panels or repeats of cosplay panels, that should not be hard since most of the cosplay teachers are probably involved with the contest in some way or want to see it.
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Offline pinkrandomattack

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« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2007, 07:51:49 pm »
ive come in costume every year ive been...which i think is 3 so far.  and ive never been in the contest.  partly since ive allways been a little unclear on all the pre meetings that happen.  and also. alot of the time the first sign up roll call thingie is way to early in the morining for me to want to get all gussied up for.   i understand people do it and theres alot of stuff that needs to be scedualled for it to be done in time for the actual event.   but yeah.  i can only imagine that there are other people that have that same problem, cause even if the meeting is at 8 (assuming said cosplayer is in the hotel) alot of costumes take an hour or more to get into, makeup and hair/wig included.  and most people were up till all hours the night before.
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Offline Negima

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« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2007, 05:52:08 pm »
Quote from: "pinkrandomattack"
but yeah.  i can only imagine that there are other people that have that same problem, cause even if the meeting is at 8 (assuming said cosplayer is in the hotel) alot of costumes take an hour or more to get into, makeup and hair/wig included.  and most people were up till all hours the night before.

The morning pre-meeting last year was more of a run-down of the rules and last minute things.  From what I remember, only a few people were there in costume.

The contest rehearsal (in the afternoon) was the one where people were in costume.

Offline Kimiski

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« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2007, 09:58:24 pm »
From a watchers point of view and not a contestent....

All I can think of is things that I dont know if they can be helped or not... one....is waiting freaking FOREVER in line. I mean of course I know sitting there 2-3 hours too get a good seat is up to that person, but an hour after it was suppose to start? Just SUCKS.

And the seats.. OMG.. the freaking seats.. I know they are for a reason but the way they are tied up together, your sitting there squished against people you dont know, who can smelll HORRIBLY, in a cosplay, for hours, unable to switch butt cheeks or your sitting position cause your just so damn close to people. Luckily last year I got an end seat up front so I eventually got up and leaned against the wall and sat on the floor... luckily no one yelled at me... >.>

And I dont member what was up with it last year. But juding took another good hour, no bad rap to bakazoku that was funny but jeez. The wait was annoying.


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Offline pinkrandomattack

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« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2007, 05:47:27 am »
Quote from: "Negima"
Quote from: "pinkrandomattack"
but yeah.  i can only imagine that there are other people that have that same problem, cause even if the meeting is at 8 (assuming said cosplayer is in the hotel) alot of costumes take an hour or more to get into, makeup and hair/wig included.  and most people were up till all hours the night before.

The morning pre-meeting last year was more of a run-down of the rules and last minute things.  From what I remember, only a few people were there in costume.

The contest rehearsal (in the afternoon) was the one where people were in costume.


thats all fine and good i guess, and now i know.  but it was definately not clear.  even in conversations i had with people at the con as to why i would not be partaking in the contest.
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Offline TomtheFanboy

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« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2007, 09:54:48 am »
Alas, the locked chairs and cramped conditions are beyond the control of the staff. They are stuff that the hotel sets for us.

The chairs lock so that there's less of a mess and things aren't sitting in the aisle. The aisles are set up and measured so that in case of fire the requisite emergency lanes are open to the filled auditorium. We alsways cram a few too many people in  and if you think that it's be being in the crowd think of how it is for the contestants when they get offstage. There's NOWEHRE for us to sit!
........however we wouldn't have to stay in there if the off stage room had CCTV........
Oooh! If the CCTV pipedream becomes a reality, stage two should be to take it to OPs! So the people manning the hub can monitor the situation! :D



BO? Well I think it was said best by Sartre "Hell is other people."

I think that we can always improve on the lines and the wait times. Those are usually because something broke or someone made a mistake, not poor planning (at least for the cosplay, ahem). I really never understand why the judges take so long but I've been told it's because they have to find enough awards for the people in the winning groups. Prizes are always at a premium and I've heard a rumor that this year, the prizes will be decentralized.

Meaning each department and competition coordinator will be given a budget and told to buy their own prizes. I think this is a great move if its true. Because the prizes deemed good by fanartists are definitely not going to be the same for the Tekken tournament winner. There should be a bunch of prizes set up for the cosplay contest so that ideally not all of them are used unless the winning groups are MASSIVE. I think a prize coordinator should be chosen to look at the number of groups that turn in forms that morning, then set up a sort of Plan A, B, and C based on the number of contestants in the largest group and the number of categories the judges will be awarding in.

Ooooh, that's another thing. We never know what the judges are going to award for. Obviously costumes, characterization, and laughs. However the certificates/plaques and the award announcements aren't always the same. The year Sailor Mario got my group the "Best Punchline" award the plaque said "Judge's Choice". I won, I'm not complaining. However for those of us who spend all year planning a skit (this is my first year doing so) it would be nice to know the categories available that morning so we can rehearse accordingly. At the very least the MC should tell the audience what the judges will be looking for when he announces them.

Oh yeah, DOES the MC introduce the Judges to the crowd? That'd be good too.
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Offline Runa

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« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2007, 02:14:11 pm »
I'm working on the cosplay rules right now. One of my main hopes is that we will have some sort of CCTV feed available for participants to watch the other acts on. Of course, a part of this will be dependent upon what kind of space we have available backstage and whether we have the equivalent of a Green Room. Much of the issues with cosplay are due to the limits of what the hotel can provide us with. Usually backstage there's a dirty service hallway that contestants have to rush through to get to stage.

I was a judge last year. The costume judging was completed and winners were picked before the first act even went on stage. The judges scored the acts and had a pile of winners decided within 5 minutes of the cosplay ending... The part that took forever was getting the prizes -- they were down in OPs & since we didn't have an appropriate collection of prizes (The  top winners all had huge groups!), they were printing up "kumoricon bucks"...which took a very long time.    

I'll try to come up with some standardized award name / categories if that's what people want, however, I still want to allow the judges some leeway to invent names for some of the awards because there is always something that needs spontaneous recognition (Yeah, one year I got "Most absurd product placement" for a software pirate...go figure). Since we don't know how many entries there will be, we can't necessarily determine the exact number of prizes ahead of time....besides, if Bandai donates a box of DVDs for prizes, those have to be divvied up appropriately.

What I'd love to do is
(0) have the tech people get the main events room set up night prior and microphones / sound tested.
(1) schedule Cosplay to start later in the evening
(2) hog the main events room all day to allow people to rehearse at any time -- we can have a sign up sheet for blocks of time for stage practice
(3) have CCTV in a large room which is easily accessible from backstage and has a good supply of food and emergency munchies so we aren't dehydrated
(4) Costume judging will be scheduled for 2 hours prior to event. Judging is timed *yey to our timer who kept us judges from spending too long on a single costume* so that each entry is not stuck there too long.
(5) Judging is done in a separate room - the green room - so that we can open the doors for seating well before cosplay is scheduled to start
(6) seating is open seating - if we've got several doors, open 'em all! - move fast and get to a seat. Ushers can keep an eye on open seats and can herd people toward them.
(7) GOOD: Cosplay forms available at  REGISTRATION tables as well as at infobooth and in the hands of cosplay director and various cosplay minions.  IDEAL: Cosplay form is a tear out page in the con-book that everyone gets with their schedule...so if you've managed to register for the convention, you should have seen the cosplay form at least once at the convention regardless of whether you're participating or not.
(8) Either the MC or I will announce names of judges...don't know why we forgot about that before...

That should be a good start.

Now, then, anyone have the stage size information? Room layout? Is there a room that can function as green room? If I bring a 150' network cable will that solve the issue with getting a video feed from event room to green room? (Look, I own my own projector and have a laptop -- which has wireless-- so we should be able to get a digital feed to it somehow!! I'm sure someone owns a digital camera that we can rig up someplace in main events room...)[/b]

Offline snakeling

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« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2007, 03:33:06 pm »
Quote from: "Runa"

(0) have the tech people get the main events room set up night prior and microphones / sound tested.
(1) schedule Cosplay to start later in the evening


We techies do what we can.  It's very difficult to live mic people who don't project and face towards the mics with the limited equipment we have.  With multiple event's we can't always set up the night before for cosplay.

Offline Runa

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« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2007, 03:50:56 pm »
[quote="snakeling]We techies do what we can.  It's very difficult to live mic people who don't project and face towards the mics with the limited equipment we have.  With multiple events we can't always set up the night before for cosplay.[/quote]

...and we REALLY appreciate you techies. My notes were WISHES, I know they all can't come true. ... but if you could set up the night before or really really early in the AM, we could arrange some chocolate for you guys.  :)  

Oh, while we're on it, I do want to VERY STRONGLY recommend (which is as close to require as I can get) that entrants prerecord their dialogs as I've noticed that typically the prerecorded ones are the *only* ones in which we understand everything that's said.  

I do recall that at Sakuracon last year, they had a cosplay recording session in which they allowed everyone to pre-record their soundtracks at the convention, but I don't know if KumoriCon has the resources to handle something like that. I don't own that kind of equipment myself...

Offline TomtheFanboy

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« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2007, 02:00:29 am »
I think that the recording of skit dialog before hand is something that could easily be accomplished with a good digital microphone and a little bit of the right software. If it's all recorded digitally then the sound techs could just get it all burnt onto one CD that they flip through during the show. If the people got the tools to the techs at the convention then it could be done. :D

Still no word on the stage size and stats but I asked Brenda (Prog Director) who pointed me at Peter (brand new Special Events Manager) who then asked the Main Events Coordinator who shrugged. "We have to go to the hotel and and check the space." I think is his answer. Peter (modab on the forums)  should be able to get you that information in about a month.

As far as the Green room*..... I've been told that we will be using the Karaoke room across the hall as the staging area. I had initially thought that we'd be using the Rounds Room or the Workshop since they are both directly behind where the Main Events stage was going to be. Here is the map again for Reference.
http://pockyclub.elite-otaku.net/temp.html

I'm glad to hear that the judging for the costumes and the contest was going so well and that I had the right idea of the way things should be done. It builds confidence in the convention leadership. I also know that last year was particularly slim when it came to prizes and things were limited. In 2005 I kept the box set of Now and Then Here and There and gave one of my teammate $25 buck to balance it out. In 2003 I got a small pouch and a pokemon preschooler's book. Both times the groups were five or more people.

Since so much of this year's staff is in the same or very similar positions we're at a very good place to hone in on specific failings while continuing to do what was successful before. It's great to see so much enthusiasm from the staff when it comes to asking for the opinions of the attendees. This is how you earn the right to say "for the fans".



*According to official terminology, Green Room is what they call the special room where the guests and directors go to booze.... er, relax and it is not open to anybody else. Since they have no other term for where the contestants will be waiting I've been calling it the staging area. I'd much rather call it backstage of offstage but oh well.
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Offline Runa

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« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2007, 11:37:50 am »
Quote from: "TomtheFanboy"

Still no word on the stage size and stats but I asked Brenda (Prog Director) who pointed me at Peter (brand new Special Events Manager) who then asked the Main Events Coordinator who shrugged. "We have to go to the hotel and and check the space." I think is his answer. Peter (modab on the forums)  should be able to get you that information in about a month.  

I'll be looking forward to it...for certain acts, especially if they have props and the like, it is extremely important to know the stage layout so they can be sure that their stuff will fit on stage. There's nothing worse than building scenery that's too big for the stage!  I'll be waiting on that info.

Quote from: "TomtheFanboy"
As far as the Green room*..... I've been told that we will be using the Karaoke room across the hall as the staging area. I had initially thought that we'd be using the Rounds Room or the Workshop since they are both directly behind where the Main Events stage was going to be. Here is the map again for Reference.
http://pockyclub.elite-otaku.net/temp.html

Map is helpful.... The only concern I'd have about using the karaoke room is that we'd be running people across a hall that has lots of traffic ( people who are not attending cosplay event will be wandering about there )  I do
like the idea of being near the restrooms since often cosplayers need mirrors for makeup or changing costumes... If it's possible to block off that area somehow during the cosplay event (before of course we can't block it since it's a major traffic route...  ). it looks like there's a service passage between rounds and the main room...if we're allowed to sneak through there perhaps we could use rounds room??? I suppose it depends upon what else is scheduled on that day... I think karaoke room was chosen because it has space. I hope we'd be able to do the costume judging in the backstage area...

Quote from: "TomtheFanboy"
*According to official terminology, Green Room is what they call the special room where the guests and directors go to booze.... er, relax and it is not open to anybody else. Since they have no other term for where the contestants will be waiting I've been calling it the staging area. I'd much rather call it backstage of offstage but oh well.


I know that "green room" is often the term for the room for Guests, but I've also heard that term used for the area just beyond backstage where participants in a performance hang out until it's time to go backstage. I wanted to make it clear that we needed to have something more than just a service corridor. I recall the hardships of having to stand around in a hot service corridor waiting to go on stage. It's much more pleasant to be in a clean, well-lit room with chairs to sit on while waiting for your 15 seconds of fame on stage. Of course, to keep things running smoothly, we'll have to have a Stage Shepherd who will herd the groups of participants to the stage at the appropriate times.

Keep those suggestions coming. Once I've sent the draft to Brenda, we'll tweak it and then post it. I'm also trying to get a database built so that we can store the contestant info electronically.  ( helps us be able to spell people's names correctly ).

Does anyone know if the KumoriCon Web team knows how to create and manage electronic forms (connected to a database) to allow online cosplay sign up??? I am a Database Administrator, so I can handle the database design if needed.

Offline Runa

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« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2007, 12:09:31 pm »
Hmmmmm....    http:// http://www.cc25.net/stage.htm
shows the Costume Con Stage layout information....this is the kind of info we need to have available. Although most anime cosplayers wear costumes that keep within the usual personal space of ordinary humans, we do occasionally have something exciting like the dragon from Escaflowne (boy, that was BIG) showing up, so that's what the size info is for. As you can see from the costume con map, they give ceiling height, curtain locations, and info on where it's acceptable to enter / exit the stage. They even included info on the size of the backstage area to ensure that you know whether or not your costume can fit through there.   I like those kinds of details... even if I have to run around the hotel with a tape measure and measure it myself... But I'd rather have the info ahead of time if someone is able to obtain it.   :)  

Oh, got some fun ideas for hall costume stuff....

Offline snakeling

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« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2007, 08:50:08 am »
When I spoke with Peter I requested a stage 24'x16' and an additional 6'x16' Thrust durning cosplay for walk ons giving it a more fashion show runway feel.  The proscenium arch will be 20' wide and 15' tall.  I'm also working on some sort of pipe and drape that we don't have to rent to make the sides of the room a backstage but this would not be a greenroom as the mics are really hot to allow for maximum volume for cosplayers.  What we really need are professional headsets to communicate between the stage and the booth without sending runners that would make cueing lights and sound much easier.  

Gino, one of my sound techs and dj's, has professional recording equipment but I feel he may be over utilized with main events and the con in general to go through 30 recording sessions.  It's also outside of the scope we usually use him for.

Offline TomtheFanboy

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« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2007, 10:44:25 am »
Dangit....ignore this post.
My computer has been doing this a lot at work......
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Offline Runa

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« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2007, 08:59:08 am »
Quote from: "snakeling"
When I spoke with Peter I requested a stage 24'x16' and an additional 6'x16' Thrust durning cosplay for walk ons giving it a more fashion show runway feel.  The proscenium arch will be 20' wide and 15' tall.

:D    That sounds nice... I was thinking it would be awesome to base the stage shape on a traditional Kabuki theatre layout (which has an extra bit sticking out of the stage on each side rather than just in the middle). Depending upon the size of the room, this could be way cool. If you are certain we can get the stage shape and size settled definitely, then we can put a room layout sketch on the website so that people can plan their skits. (basically, if they know about the runway section, then some will actually use it to their advantage)...

Quote from: "snakeling"
 I'm also working on some sort of pipe and drape that we don't have to rent to make the sides of the room a backstage but this would not be a greenroom as the mics are really hot to allow for maximum volume for cosplayers.  What we really need are professional headsets to communicate between the stage and the booth without sending runners that would make cueing lights and sound much easier.  
Backstage is very handy... I've seen bad setups where there isn't much of any kind of backstage and it's difficult for people to hide proplerly when they want to do some offstage commentary or just don't want to be seen until it's time...  :)

Quote from: "snakeling"
Gino, one of my sound techs and dj's, has professional recording equipment but I feel he may be over utilized with main events and the con in general to go through 30 recording sessions.  It's also outside of the scope we usually use him for.
 Covet covet covet. How many cases of beer do we need to get his time?  ;)  Is there someone else who could be trusted to use the equipment if Gino doesn't have time?

Offline TomtheFanboy

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« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2007, 10:18:39 am »
Quote from: "Runa"
:D    That sounds nice... I was thinking it would be awesome to base the stage shape on a traditional Kabuki theatre layout (which has an extra bit sticking out of the stage on each side rather than just in the middle). Depending upon the size of the room, this could be way cool. If you are certain we can get the stage shape and size settled definitely, then we can put a room layout sketch on the website so that people can plan their skits. (basically, if they know about the runway section, then some will actually use it to their advantage)...



I know I'd draw it on my map!

I'm thinking of grabbing some measuring tape and heading up to the hotel some weekend before the next meeting. Maybe we can turn it into a get together.
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Offline Kimiski

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« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2007, 02:58:54 pm »
Quote from: "Runa"
I'm working on the cosplay rules right now. One of my main hopes is that we will have some sort of CCTV feed available for participants to watch the other acts on. Of course, a part of this will be dependent upon what kind of space we have available backstage and whether we have the equivalent of a Green Room. Much of the issues with cosplay are due to the limits of what the hotel can provide us with. Usually backstage there's a dirty service hallway that contestants have to rush through to get to stage.

I was a judge last year. The costume judging was completed and winners were picked before the first act even went on stage. The judges scored the acts and had a pile of winners decided within 5 minutes of the cosplay ending... The part that took forever was getting the prizes -- they were down in OPs & since we didn't have an appropriate collection of prizes (The  top winners all had huge groups!), they were printing up "kumoricon bucks"...which took a very long time.    

I'll try to come up with some standardized award name / categories if that's what people want, however, I still want to allow the judges some leeway to invent names for some of the awards because there is always something that needs spontaneous recognition (Yeah, one year I got "Most absurd product placement" for a software pirate...go figure). Since we don't know how many entries there will be, we can't necessarily determine the exact number of prizes ahead of time....besides, if Bandai donates a box of DVDs for prizes, those have to be divvied up appropriately.

What I'd love to do is
(0) have the tech people get the main events room set up night prior and microphones / sound tested.
(1) schedule Cosplay to start later in the evening
(2) hog the main events room all day to allow people to rehearse at any time -- we can have a sign up sheet for blocks of time for stage practice
(3) have CCTV in a large room which is easily accessible from backstage and has a good supply of food and emergency munchies so we aren't dehydrated
(4) Costume judging will be scheduled for 2 hours prior to event. Judging is timed *yey to our timer who kept us judges from spending too long on a single costume* so that each entry is not stuck there too long.
(5) Judging is done in a separate room - the green room - so that we can open the doors for seating well before cosplay is scheduled to start
(6) seating is open seating - if we've got several doors, open 'em all! - move fast and get to a seat. Ushers can keep an eye on open seats and can herd people toward them.
(7) GOOD: Cosplay forms available at  REGISTRATION tables as well as at infobooth and in the hands of cosplay director and various cosplay minions.  IDEAL: Cosplay form is a tear out page in the con-book that everyone gets with their schedule...so if you've managed to register for the convention, you should have seen the cosplay form at least once at the convention regardless of whether you're participating or not.
(8) Either the MC or I will announce names of judges...don't know why we forgot about that before...

That should be a good start.

Now, then, anyone have the stage size information? Room layout? Is there a room that can function as green room? If I bring a 150' network cable will that solve the issue with getting a video feed from event room to green room? (Look, I own my own projector and have a laptop -- which has wireless-- so we should be able to get a digital feed to it somehow!! I'm sure someone owns a digital camera that we can rig up someplace in main events room...)[/b]


I like all of it I just see a problem with number 1 and 6. If the cosplay contest goes any later, that means the dance will be cut off. Unless they move the dance to another night, but it usually stays in the same room, cause its the biggest.

And number 6 would be chaos!! All those people running in to get a seat. I know I would run hella fast to get a seat in the front. Its only fair to people who have been waiting in line to get the first seats.


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Offline Runa

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« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2007, 03:29:32 pm »
Got the rules, entry forms, and waiver written. Emailing to Brenda now for approval and posting to web site.   :)  
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Offline snakeling

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« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2007, 03:34:32 pm »
Quote
I know I'd draw it on my map!


Keep in mind the stage usually comes in 4'x6' squares.

Offline Runa

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« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2007, 03:41:24 pm »
Quote from: "snakeling"
Keep in mind the stage usually comes in 4'x6' squares.

Yum .... bite size pieces...

Offline TomtheFanboy

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« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2007, 03:58:09 pm »
Quote from: "snakeling"
Keep in mind the stage usually comes in 4'x6' squares.


Hmmm..... that means that I could take the measurements of the room and start designing the stage chunks before I even hear anything from the people building it.

That is, I can play around with how it would look before you guys actually declare what the stage design will be. In the end the map will just have the official design on it.
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« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2007, 04:05:30 pm »
Quote from: "TomtheFanboy"
Quote from: "snakeling"
Keep in mind the stage usually comes in 4'x6' squares.


Hmmm..... that means that I could take the measurements of the room and start designing the stage chunks before I even hear anything from the people building it.

That is, I can play around with how it would look before you guys actually declare what the stage design will be. In the end the map will just have the official design on it.


Yeah cutout a bunch of 4" x 6" cardboard squares and use them to plan out the stage using your Jabba the huts throne room dancer action figures as reffrence.



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« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2007, 04:07:38 pm »
Quote from: "Vondan"

Yeah cutout a bunch of 4" x 6" cardboard squares and use them to plan out the stage using your Jabba the huts throne room dancer action figures as reffrence.


Well, I don't have an Oola figure, but my Jabba would make a good reference for "maximum costume size".....
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« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2007, 04:18:36 pm »
Quote from: "snakeling"
I'm also working on some sort of pipe and drape that we don't have to rent to make the sides of the room a backstage but this would not be a greenroom as the mics are really hot to allow for maximum volume for cosplayers.  


if your making the curtain out of something to heavy for a normal sewing machine I have a industrial one that can sew canvas, webbing, half inch thick leather and I have lots of Grommets and such.

what is the pipe set up going to be, I have a vauge idea for a lots of things we could make for the con for little or no cost if we have the time space and a welder.


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« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2007, 04:54:08 pm »
Quote
if your making the curtain out of something to heavy for a normal sewing machine I have a industrial one that can sew canvas, webbing, half inch thick leather and I have lots of Grommets and such.

what is the pipe set up going to be, I have a vauge idea for a lots of things we could make for the con for little or no cost if we have the time space and a welder.


Here's the deal in order to get pipe and drape we need to rent it from the hotel for huge amounts of money.  However I was thinking if we created a Kumoricon Banner on each side of the stage that just happened to have a  black background and hooked up to some sort of PVC frame we could use a banner to make a backstage with out the big bucks for pipe and drape rental.  I'm looking into getting a sign shop to make a 25'x15' banner.  I have a feeling it's going to be too expensive.

But now that you mention it do you think there are crafty con people interested in getting a *&!# load of canvas painting it black with our umbrella girl\chop on it so we could use it year after year and make a backstage?

Offline Vondan

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« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2007, 05:19:03 pm »
Quote from: "snakeling"
Quote
if your making the curtain out of something to heavy for a normal sewing machine I have a industrial one that can sew canvas, webbing, half inch thick leather and I have lots of Grommets and such.

what is the pipe set up going to be, I have a vauge idea for a lots of things we could make for the con for little or no cost if we have the time space and a welder.


Here's the deal in order to get pipe and drape we need to rent it from the hotel for huge amounts of money.  However I was thinking if we created a Kumoricon Banner on each side of the stage that just happened to have a  black background and hooked up to some sort of PVC frame we could use a banner to make a backstage with out the big bucks for pipe and drape rental.  I'm looking into getting a sign shop to make a 25'x15' banner.  I have a feeling it's going to be too expensive.

But now that you mention it do you think there are crafty con people interested in getting a *&!# load of canvas painting it black with our umbrella girl\chop on it so we could use it year after year and make a backstage?



That’s what I was thinking there is a lot of the stage set stuff we could make and make it good enough to use every year, if we use common hardware parts; repairs, replacements and additions over the years will be easy.  It all depends on storage, transportation of the stuff and meeting up at a good enough work area in Portland.  We could make a pipe frame from PVC or welded steel pipe and hang a drape. Or make free standing flats from 8 x 4 foot frames made of 1 x 2 stock and stretch the canvas (or muslin or old bed sheets) over that and paint it with size water (Elmer’s wood glue and water) and that can be painted with house paint.   To start some ware in the con storage is about 20 flats S con gave us that need to have the frames repaired and recovered and hinges replaced (they gave us about %70 all left side and some have no hinges) that are used as free standing room dividers and easels for the art show.  The one problem with painting the Umbrella girl (Keiko Kumori) on the drape is the girl changes every year.  But the Chop within the Cartouche and the letterhead for the word Kumoricon stays the same
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« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2007, 10:17:42 am »
Quote
 It all depends on storage, transportation of the stuff and meeting up at a good enough work area in Portland.   The one problem with painting the Umbrella girl (Keiko Kumori) on the drape is the girl changes every year.  But the Chop within the Cartouche and the letterhead for the word Kumoricon stays the same
 

The girl I was thinking of is the timeless Druihd Art outline that I made the origional steel gobo from.  

I need the flat to have a large enough image that the hotel can't possibly say we need to rent the banner from them and yet usable enough for a backstage to a precenium

Storage is not a problem with the storage locker that Kumoricon has every year.  IF we make everything portable transporation shouldn't be that big of a deal either which is why I think some sort of pipe and drape rather than a flat frame would be preferable.  Surely one of us has a truck or van.  We could roll up a piece of canvas\muslin\whatever and throw it in back of?

It's just an idea I'd like to kick around in the future.[/code]

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« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2007, 11:40:06 am »
Quote from: "TomtheFanboy"
Quote from: "Vondan"

Yeah cutout a bunch of 4" x 6" cardboard squares and use them to plan out the stage using your Jabba the huts throne room dancer action figures as reffrence.


Well, I don't have an Oola figure, but my Jabba would make a good reference for "maximum costume size".....


Oola was not on stage.  Lyn-me, Rystell and Gretta were the ones on stage, how can you be a boy fan and not have gotten the Jabba throne room Dioramma with the three dancers and the stage
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« Reply #30 on: February 21, 2007, 01:57:20 pm »
Quote from: "Vondan"
Oola was not on stage.  Lyn-me, Rystell and Gretta were the ones on stage, how can you be a boy fan and not have gotten the Jabba throne room Dioramma with the three dancers and the stage


Because I like the original trilogy better and have original trilogy toys. Jabba is currently overlooking my kitchen from his dais.

I think that Brenda has a map with the actual attributes of the main events room. I only have the square footage of the rooms upstairs. If I can get those numbers then I can start making some diagrams for everyone.
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Offline TomtheFanboy

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« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2007, 05:57:27 am »
I now have a map with measurements up here
http://pockyclub.elite-otaku.net/maps.html
if anyone would like to grab it and start playing with stage designs.

I didn't get a chance to measure doorways but the ceiling in the ballroom is 18ft tall and we WILL be allowed to use the staff access hall between the Rounds and the Main Events room if we need to.

One of the things I thought of in favor of the karaoke room is that they'd have a screen in there set up already for us to connect to CCTV. The rounds isn't scheduled to have video equipment.
YET at least...
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Offline Runa

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« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2007, 08:29:30 am »
Quote from: "TomtheFanboy"
I now have a map with measurements up here
http://pockyclub.elite-otaku.net/temp.html
if anyone would like to grab it and start playing with stage designs.

Yey... thanks for the map.
If we get to use Rounds as green room, then the stage is perfect where it is. However, if they insist that we must use the karaoke room for cosplayers, then the stage will have to be on the other end (from where it's drawn on your map) because otherwise we'd have a very long walk for cosplayers to get to the stage (meaning that we'd have to have up to 2 groups 'on deck' in the service hallway to ensure that we don't lose too much time between acts while people shufffle from the karaoke room all the way to the stage.) Sigh.  Let me know what becomes official. Is there a reason for not using Rounds, other than the fact that someone came up w/ the idea of using the karaoke room?

Offline TomtheFanboy

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« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2007, 09:42:35 am »
I have not gotten any reason for the karaoke room being used instead of the Rounds.

I think the reason the stage was put at the end where I drew it was so that they could use the doors at the end of the room as the primary entracne (for crowd control) and the speakers would be (and I quote) "pointed away from the rounds room".
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Offline Runa

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« Reply #34 on: March 08, 2007, 08:42:18 am »
Oh, Tom, you mentioned that the stage for cosplay would have an extension on it, but your drawing only shows it as a rectangle. Have they decided to nix that extension?

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« Reply #35 on: March 08, 2007, 03:03:34 pm »
Quote from: "Runa"
Oh, Tom, you mentioned that the stage for cosplay would have an extension on it, but your drawing only shows it as a rectangle. Have they decided to nix that extension?


The main map was just a rough estimate of size and shape based on the room. I don't have any data on what size or shape they'll be working with.

According to my numbers the one I've drawn is roughly 7 panels long and 4 panels wide. It is half as wide as the entire room which means there is more than 20 feet on either side for gear and people. I figured we would need less room than that around the sides but this was just to help people get an idea of the space. Also, I set it up so the stage actually takes up 1/3 of the Main Events room to show how much seating we'd lose. I list 900 there because that's the Theater Seating maximum for a room that size, I don't know how much room that actually will leave for the stage though, the picturs are misleading. So on my diagram, it would actually be 600 people in the seats and a stage area in the back third.

This could be a problem since about half the attendees show up at the Cosplay and opening ceremonies.

How deep should the stage be usually?
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« Reply #36 on: March 08, 2007, 03:37:02 pm »
Quote from: "TomtheFanboy"
According to my numbers the one I've drawn is roughly 7 panels long and 4 panels wide. It is half as wide as the entire room which means there is more than 20 feet on either side for gear and people.
How deep should the stage be usually?


You drew it as 17 x 45... often stages are about 16 x 24 (2x8' deep by 6x4' wide, assuming 8'x4' panels). Since they're made up of 8'x4' panels, we have to keep that in mind when planning stage layout. I don't know if you can assemble the panels in mixed orientations, or whether all have to face the same way (meaning can we line up a set crosswise to the rest to expand the stage?). It's nice to have a slightly larger stage where we can have a real backstage behind the curtains (so someone doesn't fall off when backing into a curtain...)

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« Reply #37 on: March 08, 2007, 04:22:47 pm »
Quote from: "Runa"
You drew it as 17 x 45... often stages are about 16 x 24 (2x8' deep by 6x4' wide, assuming 8'x4' panels). Since they're made up of 8'x4' panels, we have to keep that in mind when planning stage layout. I don't know if you can assemble the panels in mixed orientations, or whether all have to face the same way (meaning can we line up a set crosswise to the rest to expand the stage?). It's nice to have a slightly larger stage where we can have a real backstage behind the curtains (so someone doesn't fall off when backing into a curtain...)



I'll draw up a secondary map for the stage, with a closer view of that room for us to work with. I'm not the tech guy, but I'm sure that we can build a catwalk out the middle of the stage, with the 4' section up against the 8' section. I'm just not sure how happy that'd make the techs. As soon as I'm home I'll draw up some 4x8 rectangles we can scoot around the map. I'll also make another set for 4x6 panels since that's what snakeling (the actual tech guy) mentioned.

Dang, we've been using a chat conferance tool called Adobe Connect here at work and it has a very useful doodle pad that'd be perfect for this.


-Edit- Sorry, I totally forgot this post....
Quote from: "snakeling"
When I spoke with Peter I requested a stage 24'x16' and an additional 6'x16' Thrust durning cosplay for walk ons giving it a more fashion show runway feel.  The proscenium arch will be 20' wide and 15' tall.
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« Reply #38 on: March 08, 2007, 08:40:22 pm »
OK, I've got the blocks measured out as close as I'm going to get in Paint.

I've made several stages and added a runway to two of them. Once we find out which size panels the hotel offers we'll be able to eliminate half of them.
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« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2007, 08:34:31 am »
I just read about a kabuki theatre:
Stage Dimensions 16.5m wide x 15m deep
Turntable Diameter 12.3m
Movable Hanamichi Length 11m
Stage Lifts 12 Electric Vertical Lifts
Other machinery Various stage curtains, backdrops, lighting & sound equipment, etc.

Boy, would THAT be awesome for cosplay if we could get people to use it properly and if we could get a theater large enough to house it! hee hee hee. (remember: a meter is a little more than 1 yard, so that's a HUGE stage)

I think the 16'x24' with the additional 6'x16' thrust up front would work very well for cosplay. We would need to also know the locations of stairs/ramps for stage entrances / exits. I don't want someone complaining that they'd plan to exit stage at a certain point and then discover that they can't exit the stage there because there are no stairs at that location (and people are NOT permitted to jump on/off stage since that's where liability step in and cause us headaches).