just a suggestion?

[trinket]

have you guys thought about renting out some rooms at either the expo center or the convention center instead of trying to find a hotel with adequate space?

[valliegirl]

have you guys thought about renting out some rooms at either the expo center or the convention center instead of trying to find a hotel with adequate space?

From everything I've heard from higher ups, the con isn't big enough yet to financially support that sort of a thing.  It'll be a few years before that's possible.

[Anza]

I personally like the idea. However with the way it was ran this year I'm not sure if I'll be comming back. It's my home-town con and I really would love to support it. I only ever missed 2005 because of a very un-expected (and un-wanted) medical emergency that landed me in the hospital. I've been there since year 1 though! And this year I was pretty disappointed. I won't rant about such a thing here as it is not the space to do so.

However I will say it is iffy if I will be returning. And the same can go for at least 20 people I know... So unless the con starts gaining ground I don't know if it will even be around long enough to make it to the Portland Con Center

[sassy_lassy]

Well just in response to that sort of 'threat' of leaving the con. I know at least 20 people that will be returning to Kumori Con. Equivelent Exchange and the con will keep going.

Anza, if it's your hometown convention why don't you help out and volunteer or go to the meetings? That way what you think would make the convention better would be brought up in case no else brings it up.

[guspasho]

Believe me, we are always thinking about it.

The Expo Center is not in the least the kind of space we want to be in. There are no hotels nearby, nor anything else really. There are more, but those are the ones I can remember. I'm sure someone else will point out more.

The Convention Center is always thought about, but there are several issues with it, primarily the cost. We would have to be a convention of about 7000 people in order to justify the cost. There are no attached hotels, which changes the feel of the convention as a whole. We would also be prohibited from using our own con-friendly Yojimbo and be forced to rend the Convention Center's own security services, which would be a huge cost to Kumoricon and their level of understanding of a cosplay-laden anime convention would be questionable.

Yes, we've thought the Convention Center a lot. But quite simply, Kumoricon only had 2257 attendees this year, which is far less a number than what is feasible at the Convention Center at the prices they are asking. We have a lot of growing to do before we can consider them.

Threatening to leave are not the least bit helpful and just make us want to  :roll: . Yes, things did suck, and we know what sucked. We were all scrambling at registration to get you all processed, so we know it just as well as the attendees do. We want to make a better convention too. But really, nothing is less helpful.

Kumoricon is run by volunteers who get nothing in return for long, grueling hours of convention preparation. It isn't the least bit easy to organize. And the most difficult problem, always, is the lack of manpower. We don't ask for much, just someone who is enthusiastic responsible and willing to do one job or another. We don't need experience - a lot of the jobs are performed by people with no experience.

Please, if you want to make Kumoricon better, we need your help.

[Antares]

I would also put in that, besides just needing volunteers, we did not have a specific staff member who's only task was "Volunteer Coordinator" - which would have really helped. If you notice, most staff list more than one major responsibility, (up to and including ottoman)

[EcchiSpice]

It's true, we all double duty. Even me. I was co-merch manager, and a panelist. (Besides temporarily running publicity when our original director stood down.) My vice chair was also the gaming coordinator.

As for the convention center.....
$27,000 to start, not including using their security, renting their AV equipment, and anything else they want to throw at us. This could easily double the price when all is said and done. PLUS the hotels that are close are really small and quite crap-tacular. There are nicer ones near by, but still quite the haul from the convention center.

That original price is more than half our current budget, and 2x last years. I'd much rather spend that money on programming and guests. What's the point of being in a  space three times bigger than what we currently need, if we can't afford to fill it with programming?

If anything could make our convention better, it would be MORE STAFF. All of you who complain need to join staff so you can understand the logistical nightmares we have to deal with. (Like a wedding that was double booked over our main events room by the hotel...try programming around THAT! We were informed Friday afternoon.)


For those of you who think this was the worst Kumoricon ever....

We had twice the attendance. All of the programming. Actual signage leading to areas. More staff than ever (though never enough). The schedule was online for viewing, even with updates on Sunday morning. A huge cat ears panel went on twice during the weekend. The Charity Auction brought in twice as much money for pear than last year. We had guests who have never been to cons clamoring to attend ours. There were several emergency situations that were handled so well by the staff that no regular attendees were even aware of the situations. How about the closing ceremonies showing the winning AMV and all of the contest winners announced in a fun show? Most cons don't have that, in fact none I've ever attended. I could go on. The fact is, the only REAL complaint I am hearing is that we were horribly understaffed. And I'm sure you all know a really good way to fix that.

AND FINALLY... as for "gaining ground"....it is ridiculous to even insinuate that this con is somehow NOT "gaining ground". re: The paragraph above.

This was in many ways our BEST year. If you want to make it better, quit idly complaining and do something about it. God knows we need help at the reg desk.

[EvilMonkey]

We're working on a new location, once the contract in finalized, you'll all know

This new place is awesome!  I love it!

[Anza]

Ah I guess it makes sense. It was one reason I didn't like SakuraCon so much this past year was from the fact that the hotels were forever and a day away. I missed having it at the Hilton I guess I just find it kind of sad that every hotel the con [kumori] has been at so far seems to be far from happy in finding out just what it was they were getting themselves into (though the very first year hotel is now gone w/ a Best Buy built on its old lot.)

As in a reply as to why I don't volunteer: full time school and full time work. It's difficult enough finding time to sleep let alone volunteering for a con ;\

The con can still, and should, gain ground in a lot of areas. I never once said it wasn't nor that it has been the same every year. I even did my own to tell people about it and in trying to help people to go. When I say the con needs to gain ground it's in the sense that things were semi-disorganized and difficult to find. I was even once told a panel was being held in one room when it was in another... which caused myself and a few friends to run around for a good 10mins. But I guess that's my own lesson in who to listen to (even though it was a staffer.. yikes.)

I do want to however commend the people who did run it this year. I never once said staff in itself was bad. As you all did your best in what you were doing. Although I have nitpicky things I could really be an @$$ about it pointing out but overall it was a good con. I'm just iffy on spending the money on it again for another year when I didn't really feel I got my money's worth (though on incident it was the hotel who closed the events down for cleaning.)

Are we ever going to get a hotel that doesn't double (even triple) book us? I had a few run-ins with the little-league kids that were less than pleasent ~_~;;
 

add note: isn't this the PLACE to complain? Had I been iddly doing so I don't think I would even be here posting/discussing it on the boards. Just a thought.

note 2: it was no "threat." I was just saying I didn't like it. And I know others who didn't. Had I been threatening I'm sure I would have a sounded a little, well, meaner.

[superjaz]

in no way was this the worst k-con ever bite yo lip peeps, it just added to the antisapation of the con waiting extra long on christmas morning
as for an expo thhink of how many of us car pool to get to meetings because we dont have a car or cant drive, and how many of our goers arnt old enough to drive, ad that to an expo center where your room isn't close enough for a room change for a photo shoot=bad

[modab]

I noticed a complaint (or two) about whether our con is worth the money or not. When I was a simple con attendee, and not a staffer, I used to think, glah, $40 (or $50!) for a con, yuck, it seriously be better worth my time. And then I would go there, and I found I had lots of down time, some boring time, and only a little of it was exciting. I thought seriously, I am wasting my money.
Having been out in the real world for a bit, I realize just how wrong I was. Events cost a ton of money. Heck, just going to 1 3-hour concert can cost anywhere from $50-$200. And for $50 or so for a typical con, you are getting 2-3 whole days of content, from 10am to 2 am. In our case, we had two dances, a bajillion contests, a musical guest, random other guests, incredible creation workshops, constant video,lan,and rpg gaming rooms, and tons of chances to hang out and make new friends. And hey, various anime goods you might not be able to find anywhere else. And anime playing 24/7. And tons of stuff I'm leaving out.
I guess what I'm getting at, is if you can find at least 2 things that appeal to you over those 3 days, I think you're getting your money's worth. Anything beyond that is gravy.
Now of course, you shouldn't have to put up with 3 hour lines (though if you've ever been to an amusement park, you've probably had to put up with worse by the end of it), and you may be paying extra for a hotel room (though it should only be another $100 at the most if you are sharing with a couple other people). So in that case instead of finding two things that you had fun at the con doing, maybe you need four things (even the hotel swimming pool counted as one fun thing for me!).
I think people should really sit back and realize how much value you are actually getting for your dollar. Sure, a movie might only cost $10, but it's a) only 2 hours long
b) not live)
c) only one event
Other things that cost $50 or more:
one video game
one ticket to a sporting event
3 music cds
2 dvds
So, I think overall, people shouldn't gripe too much, and just enjoy the con experience. :-)
P.S.
I do realize many minors don't have a regular job, and scrounging together $50-$150 for a convention is a serious undertaking. But maybe you can pass this argument on to your parents and they will realize what a good deal it is as well...

[MistressLegato]

So I was on the Hotel hunt yesterday as I rode Max and there are like seventy bajillion hotels right downtown near the Lloyd center!  There's a Red Lion, The Shilo Inn @ the Conv. center, The Inn @ the conv. Center, The Double Tree (Yes, it's booked, but people could stay there and walk to whatever other hotel the con is held @), and there was some other Hotel.  There are literally, tons of them!

I think all of us ought to be more helpful in the hunt for hotels this year!! Ne?

[EvilMonkey]

Yes, there are several hotels downtown, but very few with convention space.  Needless to say, next year's location will be good.  I already have it picked out, I'm just finalizing the contracts now.

[RoamingGnome]

Yes, there are several hotels downtown, but very few with convention space.  Needless to say, next year's location will be good.  I already have it picked out, I'm just finalizing the contracts now.

Oh you evil monkey you.  :twisted:

[Negima]

Yes, there are several hotels downtown, but very few with convention space.  Needless to say, next year's location will be good.  I already have it picked out, I'm just finalizing the contracts now.

Any chance of a hint as to where it is?

[Neko_Chan]

Yes, there are several hotels downtown, but very few with convention space.  Needless to say, next year's location will be good.  I already have it picked out, I'm just finalizing the contracts now.

Any chance of a hint as to where it is?

He said in another thread it's a secret. :<
grr. xD

[Trumby]

Yes, there are several hotels downtown, but very few with convention space.  Needless to say, next year's location will be good.  I already have it picked out, I'm just finalizing the contracts now.

Well both you and Tera (hope I spelled her name right..) sound enthusiastic about it so I'm content to wait!

[Negima]

Yes, there are several hotels downtown, but very few with convention space.  Needless to say, next year's location will be good.  I already have it picked out, I'm just finalizing the contracts now.

Any chance of a hint as to where it is?

He said in another thread it's a secret. :<
grr. xD

I just got around to reading that thread.  >.<
It's going to be a race to see who gets the first hotel registration.... :twisted:

[MistressLegato]

It'd kinda be nice if it were a group decision . . .I hoped you picked a good one!!!!

 

[superjaz]

Yes, there are several hotels downtown, but very few with convention space.  Needless to say, next year's location will be good.  I already have it picked out, I'm just finalizing the contracts now.

go evil monky!

[valliegirl]

Please, at least hint to us whether it's actually in Downtown Portland or not.  ^_^

[ambergen87]

*crosses fingers and prays* Please let it be at the Doubletree at Jantzen Beach. Please let it be at the Doubletree at Jantzen Beach. Please let it be at the Doubletree at Jantzen Beach. *and goes on and on and on*

[EvilMonkey]

[kylite]

THAT is such a tease!

[modab]

you are an evil monkey.

and to everyone else, no matter what hotel we go with, good or bad, remember that over the past 3-4 years, we have ended up having pretty much *no* choice over what hotel we were able to secure. Every year there has been exactly *one* hotel that was
a) remotely close to our budget (unlike say the convention center)
b) remotely close to our date (between July and November)
c) remotely close to the size we need (Jantzen Beach was a little bit crowded, but any other hotel we could have gotten this year would have been even worse, except for the convention center which was, of course, way too large)

This is also the case for our 2007 con! Glah. So whichever one we find, we hope you like it, because it's not like there's any choice in the matter ;-)

What we really want is a hotel that would actually not be booked the following year, so that the hotel staff could grow to like us (which they all did, except for presumably the Jantzen beach people). Like the 2004 and 2005 hotels. I wonder if either of them are available for 2008?

[RoamingGnome]

Again I will say you are One Evil Monkey EvilMonkey!

 :twisted:

[EvilMonkey]

Hmm, what about:

[TomtheFanboy]

*studies the picture carefully and thinks about all the time he's spent wandering around downtown portland......*
YES!

Mwahahahaha!

Hooray for evil monkeys!
I think that on my day off I'll be taking a trip downtown to check on my hypothesis. If I'm right this is going to be cool.



...........unless of course that's a photo from the same company's hotel in another city. I wouldn't put it past him, he's an evil monkey after all.  :wink:

[Negima]

*Studies the pictures*
Dear gawd I think I've seen those areas but I can't put my finger on it...

[MistressLegato]

*crosses fingers and prays* Please let it be at the Doubletree at Jantzen Beach. Please let it be at the Doubletree at Jantzen Beach. Please let it be at the Doubletree at Jantzen Beach. *and goes on and on and on*

 :|

Umm . . . that hotel sorta doesn't exist anymore . . . it was bought by the Thunderbird and it's currently shut down.

[superjaz]

the evil monky is evil
tom pm you hypothisis plz

[ambergen87]

@ MistressLegato

*cries* That was such a good hotel! *goes into thinking position* That's why Orycon left.

[TomtheFanboy]

I'll make it public after I do a little bit of research.
I'll have to go wander around downtown a little some night this week to see if I'm right.

[Sinaj]

OMG LMAO your new sig is awesome!

[Hazuza]

Haha:
http://kumoricon.com/files/images/nohintshere.jpg


<< I'll find out what that is... it looks awesome so far...

[BlitzAceTidus]

I think as far as running the con goes, it was pretty unorganized this year as far as getting panels set up and getting the info booth updated on what was going on. We had to hunt down the coordinator in the con opps room, down the hallway, ALL Over the place because not only did the info booth not have cosplay contest entry forms, they didnt know, where they were, when they'd get them, who to get them from, who is going to pick them up or where they go. they knew nothing about the biggest event of the whole weekend!!

 Also, while at the cosplay, halftime was sadly lame. I heard alot of complaining back there and it seemed like everyone was getting annoyed. I understand that the judges need their time to judge things, but perhaps a halftime show should be PLANNED instead? Like, have things arranged to happen, like Filk Aeris could perform, and perhaps a game or somthing. Just a suggestion from the crowd.

    I will be going again simply because i love the Kumoricon atendees... but Reg could have gone smoother, the rave could have used better music, Karaoke was treated as a less important, minor event when it used to be 2nd to the Masq. I used to participated, but decided against it when i saw how it was being treated. no lighting, no advertizment. it was just kind of dropped.

 which leads me to my last point. Prizes. WHAT HAPPENED? We have no momentos or anything! Kumoricon 2004 : Best Kumoricon ever. Ribbons for all! Everyone could take their own prize home, pertaining to which award was won. 2005: still pretty good. The winners for the masq were still given a solid prize and a plaque. Made it seem more worth while than getting a few peices of paper.

[superjaz]

good point a little award a piece of ribbion can make you feel happy
i also would of loved to see filk preform

[TomtheFanboy]

Thanks to irnog for helping with my research.

I knew where it was but I had the wrong name.
Fingers crossed for whatever firm of attorneys we have going over the contract!

DOORMEN! *squee*

[RoamingGnome]

Thanks to irnog for helping with my research.

I knew where it was but I had the wrong name.
Fingers crossed for whatever firm of attorneys we have going over the contract!

DOORMEN! *squee*

Ahhhh!  :shock:  Bad bear if you know we want to know  :?

[Irnogs]

well in all fairness we don't know for sure. If you're that curious, you could always search for hotels that are actually large enough for the con and figure it out from there. Trust me, there aren't that many and we've already been in two of them...

[RoamingGnome]

well in all fairness we don't know for sure. If you're that curious, you could always search for hotels that are actually large enough for the con and figure it out from there. Trust me, there aren't that many and we've already been in two of them...

Ah I trust that they will do there best to get something that will work.  Anyways no matter where it is I know I will enjoy it  

[TomtheFanboy]

Everyone go down to the shrine and make an offering for Evil Monkey.
Pray to Kami no Kumori (sp?) that he is successful.

Heh heh heh.

Kami no Kumori and Oni no Otaku......
Oni no shoutacon......

Ah yes, now I know what that reminds me of!
Rogue's Gallery!
http://www.conscrew.com/index.php?strip_id=496
The Conscrew story about Isuka, the ghost of Con Drama!

[spindrift]

OMG I think I know that building..... Bogles the mind...

[Hazuza]

Grr... If only mom'd take me to Portland once in a while... I've been there... what, twice? Only for Kumori T-T...

I have guesses, but I can't find anything exact from online searches... -sigh-

[EvilMonkey]

Y'Know, I know some of you think you may have it figured out.  And I'm sure at least one person has.  But I am also evil.

I'll give you a decent hint.  Look at the reflection in the first picture.

[princessfrodo]

We're going to have the Con in a park that has trees and other green things?  :shock:

[pieisexactlythree]

I can tell you which hotels it isn't.  I actually worked at a couple of them back in grad school days.  

Hilton (I'm looking out the window of my office at this building)
Hilton Executive Tower (ditto)
Heathman
Benson
Embassy Suites
Waterfront Marriot
Downtown Marriot
Paramount
5th Ave. Suites
Vintage Plaza
Imperial
Westin

So what does that leave? I can't recall all the facade treatment details of the Lloyd Center Double Tree, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed for that one, as it's less than a mile from my home.  It does face a park with cedar trees in it.  The photos indicate either new construction or a substantial remodel within the last five years or so.

[kylite]

Iv already figured it out but Im enjoying seeing the masses guess

[pieisexactlythree]

Got it!  Google Earth, baby!

[princessfrodo]

Iv already figured it out but Im enjoying seeing the masses guess

Noooo, you must tell us the secret, you must tell us!  We shall go insane not knowing!!!  :cry:

Then again, I don't know anything about any of the hotels in Portland, so even if I did know it really wouldn't matter to me.  :lol:

[TomtheFanboy]

:x
If my sources are right I'm very disappointed.
I've seen that place and I hope that it's not true.
:x
I'm disappointed for a great many reasons.
:x

Only one of them is that I misunderstood what I was seeing in the reflection.

[Hazuza]

:x
If my sources are right I'm very disappointed.
I've seen that place and I hope that it's not true.
:x
I'm disappointed for a great many reasons.
:x

Only one of them is that I misunderstood what I was seeing in the reflection.

oh-kaay..? so.. a good or bad thing, or were you being sarcastic..? *is slow*


--

And I wish I could get google earth to check my theories, but it doesn't like my computer T__T

[TomtheFanboy]

I'm not being sarcastic, I'm just getting a head start on my whining so I can get it over with. :cry:

[Hazuza]

Oh -.-''

What did you think you saw in the reflection? *goes back to check picture*

--

And mind dropping me a hint~~? Is there a park or something nearby, by any chance?

[TomtheFanboy]

At first I thought it was the marquee of a moivie theater. The vertical types that say "Cinema" or "Bijou" or even "Theater".

[Irnogs]

I think it looks like a nice hotel. I can understand what Tom is saying (even though he's not really saying it hehe), but I think it will be a nice place for the  con none-the-less.

[Antares]

What we really want is a hotel that would actually not be booked the following year, so that the hotel staff could grow to like us (which they all did, except for presumably the Jantzen beach people). Like the 2004 and 2005 hotels. I wonder if either of them are available for 2008?

Yes! This would be quite cool.

[Negima]

Gah, I can't get the idea out of my head that it's somewhere close to Pioneer Place but the reflection sorta defeats that theory.  At least I think it does. :?

I'll keep an eye out the next time I go up to Portland.

[Vondan]

My only concern with knowing ware the hotel is as early as posable is so that  we can have all the portland meetings in the same hotel to get a feel for it.  Closer to the con the staff, Voleenteers and Yojimbo ALL NEED to get together afer one of the meeting and tour the whole hotel with a con map.  A lot of times at this last con when I asked ware something was I got a lot of "I dont know" or "I have no idea".  And those setting up rooms and the Main stage should know ware the loading zones and entances and elevators are.

[kylite]

trust that, this time we are working on that, i know I am bright and early

[Neko_Chan]

Would someone just SAY where it is now?!

I was angry about that too Vondan. I was told by a staff member that the Piano Squall concert was Downstairs, then it was upstairs by anothe, in the Main events, allll the way across the hotel. @_@;

[Waffles]

We will not say the name of the hotel untell it is competely figured out that we will be going to this hotel or not.

[kylite]

Evil monkey has given a fair amount of info in this case but we are not able to discuss the location until we are certian that the contracts have been ironed out and verified.  Please be patient and know that we are doing our best to ensure this next years convention will be the best one yet.

[guspasho]

Well, maybe. Sean could just be messing with our heads at this point. He is evil, you know.

[superjaz]

my heads too easy of a target to mess with

[EvilMonkey]

Now please, just how evil do people really think I am?

Could it be that we have already signed the contract and are just waiting until elections to make the announcement?

Can you solve the Kumori-Code?

01010101 01001000 01001011 01011000 01001000 01001110 01011000 01010010 01010011 01001011 01011000 01001000 01000101 01011000 01010010 01001110 01001101 01011000 01011010 01011000 01010010 01001011 01010001 01010011 01010110 01010101 01001000 01000101 01010111 01010010 01001110 01011000 01011010 01000101

[superjaz]

no your not evil at all really really nope 100% evil free
right and the moon is made of pocky and m&ms rain from the sky and GIR  has just been elected prez of the world

[kylite]

*glares* BAD MONKEY!

ok so binary to text Iv got.

But the evil one has also placed this in a cipher.  I suck at ciphers!

[Neko_Chan]

"UHKXHNXRSKXHEXRNMXZXRKQSVUHEWRNXZE"?

WHAT KIND OF GIBBERISH ARE YOU TALKING?

XKJTKKYISFNFDHXKLNTIXLKNERX!!! D:<

[princessfrodo]

01001000 01100001 01110010 00100000 01101000 01100001 01110010 00101100 00100000 01110110 01100101 01110010 01111001 00100000 01100110 01110101 01101110 01101110 01111001 00100000 01000101 01110110 01101001 01101100 00100000 01001101 01101111 01101110 01101011 01100101 01111001 00101110

 :roll:

[kylite]

its a letter cypher.  Iv never been good at them.  the basis is that each letter is actually another letter. so u add anywhere from 1 to 26 to the letter value.

example: A+3 = D

good luck

[princessfrodo]

I'm taking Japanese, I don't have enough time to cypher another crazy language!  :lol:

[EvilMonkey]

Why, yes, it is an alphebet cipher.  But who's to say that it's progressive like that?  It could be random.  That'd be more hvkq.

[superjaz]

i know i will send to kendo boyfriend who will instantly be able to decipher this.... or drive me nuts by not giving up till it revealed
you eveeeel monkey
question anyone get tired or say that " you bad evil monkey"?

[Irnogs]

heh, if I didn't already know where it is I'd be tempted to modify one of my java projects to decode it... not much motivation at this point though hehe

[kylite]

I also know the location but I love a good puzzle.

iv hcecked the following

Atbash Cipher
Caesar Shift
Caesar Square
Anagrams
Substitution Ciphers
Other Ciphers
Modern Codes

best I can come up with is the X is equal to a space as its the most common letter repeated 7 times. I cant figure out the rest yet.

This opinion based on the Substitution Cipher Method

[PezCat]

the biggest tipoff he gave you was his cipher for "evil"... or did he?  Mwahaha.  Also, the spaces aren't figured in.  You'll have to place those yourself.  If they were figured in, one of the letters would be non-existent in the cipher.

Additionally, if the evil one IS telling us the hotel name (for all we know, he's calling your mother a Buick, and I really am not gonna spend the time trying to find out what he's saying), bear in mind that there are NO letters that repeat consecutively.  Use that when ruling out words (Mariott and Doubletree, for example, are ruled out as a result).

Plus, if he typo'd something, ain't noone figurin' this out.

PezCat

[corpsic beauty]

its another mystery! where's the scooby-doo gang when you need them?!?!

[Vondan]

its another mystery! where's the scooby-doo gang when you need them?!?!

We don't need the whole gang just Velma

[pieisexactlythree]

Come on.  I figured it out - so can you.

[Hazuza]

Come on.  I figured it out - so can you.

Come on ;__; I'm only frikin' 12.. I have no clue how this thing works!!

<< Come to think of it, I've never heard of 'Cipher' untill today...


...


Someone mind explaining it to me? T__T

[kylite]

*chuckles* cute i got it.

http://www.thedavincigame.com/Code_breaking.html

a little light reading to learn about ciphers

[pieisexactlythree]

pieisexactlythree wrote:
Come on. I figured it out - so can you.


Come on ;__; I'm only frikin' 12.. I have no clue how this thing works!!

<< Come to think of it, I've never heard of 'Cipher' untill today...

Well, now that you mention it, I didn't even bother with the cypher stuff.  I was an anthropology major, not a mathematician.  I just relied on the photographic evidence.  

And btw, I commend you, Hazuza, for exercising better use of the english language, i.e., punctuation, grammer and capitalization, than most of the folks twice your age around here.