Author Topic: Kumoriball 2012  (Read 18982 times)

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Offline orlyfan15

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Kumoriball 2012
« on: September 04, 2012, 09:00:20 am »
Ok, i didn't see anyone post anything about this yet, but i was really upset with how the ball was handled this year, and i don't think i'm the only one that feels that way. When kumoricon had the ball last time 2 years ago, it was a ticketed event so that there wouldn't be overcrowding. I really hated how it was just a first come first serve thing this time, because i waited in line when i could for a long time only to be told the ball was full and that the line had to disperse. All i'm asking is that next year if a ball is going to happen again (which i still really hope will), please please PLEASE make it a ticketed event so that way many people won't be disappointed getting told they can't get into the ball after getting ready and waiting in line the entire time just like everyone else.
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Offline Lynx

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2012, 09:57:53 am »
i was fairly disappointed as well but it also opened up time for me to go and hang out with people in general. I'd like to be able to get in next time though, if only there was a bigger room. I'm glad to see that the Ball is getting more love in recent years, I remember there being a time where people didn't think the ball was happening and there was much sadness over that fact.
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Offline Syaoran_Sakura.Kinomoto

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2012, 10:21:50 am »
needs to be bigger xO
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Offline SpaceCubaLikesConan

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2012, 10:29:21 am »
I was really disappointed. I wanted to go back in 2010, but I was forced to go home before it started because of my killjoy friend. Then last year there wasn't one, and this year I didn't get in. It makes me sad.
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Offline Rainfeather

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2012, 10:34:10 am »
I actually could NOT go into the ball before BECAUSE I missed the tickets. This year was the first year I could actually make it, and I was really glad I went. I personally feel that the tickets make it harder for people who actually want to go unable to go, because there's a limited number of tickets. If someone ends up getting a ticket and is too tired to actually go to it, there's a ticket and no one is able to get in who actually wants in because they don't have a ticket: the ticket is MIA.

I'm kinda glad they did away with the tickets, because it actually gave me a chance to actually go to things.
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Offline kaylacheriw

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2012, 10:50:19 am »
Ticketing aside, I also feel like there was this expectation that everyone had made it to the dancing lessons. I was really bothered by how serious the hosts were trying to make it.

Offline orlyfan15

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2012, 11:00:25 am »
I actually could NOT go into the ball before BECAUSE I missed the tickets. This year was the first year I could actually make it, and I was really glad I went. I personally feel that the tickets make it harder for people who actually want to go unable to go, because there's a limited number of tickets. If someone ends up getting a ticket and is too tired to actually go to it, there's a ticket and no one is able to get in who actually wants in because they don't have a ticket: the ticket is MIA.

I'm kinda glad they did away with the tickets, because it actually gave me a chance to actually go to things.

When you put it that way, yeah, then having no tickets is a good idea. but i still feel like it's better to have tickets. i think it's better to get told early in the day that there are no more tickets and then make plans to do something else instead of having to make time to get ready and wait a long time in line and then get told you can't get in and then feel like you wasted a lot of time. but this is my personal opinion
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Offline Zen

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2012, 11:07:03 am »
Honestly I thought the Kumoriball was really awesome this year. Just felt like they did a good job all around, starting with the number of dance lessons before the ball, then moving to the bouncers outside the event, turning away those who did not meet the dress code. Also no Conga lines started this year(woot!). And I thought the hosts making it feel serious made sense. It's a ball. It should feel like a formal event where appearance matters and proper etiquette is appreciated.
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Offline Tspaugy

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2012, 11:09:00 am »
As one of the hosts this year I apologize for any bad experiences people may have had. The whole purpose of the event is to have fun and enjoy yourself and for others its just a break from the norm. We were trying our best to accommodate everyone while dealing with a limited space so i sincerely apologize for those of you who felt crowded and/or were unable to make it in. all seriousness aside however I hope everyone was able to have a good time at con this year

Offline Zhalfirin

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2012, 11:37:08 am »
Honestly I thought the Kumoriball was really awesome this year. Just felt like they did a good job all around, starting with the number of dance lessons before the ball, then moving to the bouncers outside the event, turning away those who did not meet the dress code. Also no Conga lines started this year(woot!). And I thought the hosts making it feel serious made sense. It's a ball. It should feel like a formal event where appearance matters and proper etiquette is appreciated.

Generally, I agree. As a ball, I especially preferred that people were at least trying to dance (conga lines and such not being around) and the dress code was pretty well enforced. On that note, however, I feel that there needs to be some rewording of said dress code. It's a slippery slope, but having a subjective "recognizable cosplay" is just asking for grief on the con-side of things. For example, while I got into the dance just fine, I saw a number of situations that involved a rather rude Yojimbo at the door - although that should be addressed by Operations in the Yojimbo meetings, not a KumoriBall issue - simply being brash - Bouncerish, if you will - when that's neither necessary nor desirable. That's not to say the rules for cosplay dress-code are awful. There are a lot of specifics in there - regarding props and the like - that are more on the road to what I feel could save everyone a lot of unnecessary stress, both on the con and con-goer side of things.

All that aside, I enjoyed myself. Personally, being a con, I enjoy that some people new how to dance with a good margin of those that did not. I can certainly respect and understand those people of the opinion that would like a more skilled group of dancers, but I prefer the atmosphere of feeling like one could ask or be asked to dance and everyone could just enjoy the music and dance style, as opposed to simply not dancing because you're embarrassed of lack of skill. Likewise, I feel, as you said, it was largely due in part to the formal atmosphere and preparatory events (learn to dance panels) that allowed everyone to ease into the setting.
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Offline Su Lu

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2012, 01:55:40 pm »
I absolutely loved the ball this year. Even though I didn't make it to dance lessons it was fun dancing and watching the hosts dance. I dislike the idea of making it ticketed. I know it must have been horrible for those who didn't get in, but I think whatever we try that problem will always be there with the really popular events
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Offline Katacus

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2012, 02:39:45 pm »
I thought it was okay. I was just hoping the music would be classier. There's already plenty of dances with party music like Lady Gaga stuff. I just wished the music matched the dress code.

Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2012, 04:23:18 pm »
Honestly I thought the Kumoriball was really awesome this year. Just felt like they did a good job all around, starting with the number of dance lessons before the ball, then moving to the bouncers outside the event, turning away those who did not meet the dress code. Also no Conga lines started this year(woot!). And I thought the hosts making it feel serious made sense. It's a ball. It should feel like a formal event where appearance matters and proper etiquette is appreciated.

This, but it looked as if they allowed almost anything in terms of cosplay and attire, but maybe that's just me. I also only looked outside for a few seconds.
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Offline veraca

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2012, 04:40:23 pm »
What about having two balls? One ball that's at the similar time of the night and one that's later in the night with a 15-30 min down time for the room to be cleared of people and cleaned if needed. That way people who were already in would have to line-up again, or join the line that's already formed (at the end of the line).
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Offline brossiya

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2012, 04:46:43 pm »
What about having two balls? One ball that's at the similar time of the night and one that's later in the night with a 15-30 min down time for the room to be cleared of people and cleaned if needed. That way people who were already in would have to line-up again, or join the line that's already formed (at the end of the line).

I actually really like that idea; there would just have to be some rescheduling of the rave for that to work. They could possibly have the rave on another day though if they'd like to keep it.
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Offline veraca

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2012, 05:15:34 pm »
Well there's usually 2 raves, one per night. Could they push the ball up to happen earlier in the night? So that if wanted, the minors could attend both balls. I know not all adults might like that idea, but there's no realistic reason for a ball to be 18+ (that I see).
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Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2012, 05:53:36 pm »
^ So that the adults can attend something without minors that isn't porn-related.
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Offline veraca

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2012, 05:58:58 pm »
True. I'd like to attend something that isn't porn-related with people my own age that includes dancing. However, my problem is always the volume of the bass (in the music with vibrations to my ears hurt) and the lights (strobe, smoke and flashing causes headaches).

Two prime reasons why I don't go to concerts or raves, and why I put my head down, close my eyes and plug my ears during dances/skits that involves any combination of those at the Contests. I can't be the only one who doesn't want to go deaf or get a headache whilst trying to have fun.
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Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2012, 06:05:33 pm »
True. I'd like to attend something that isn't porn-related with people my own age that includes dancing. However, my problem is always the volume of the bass (in the music with vibrations to my ears hurt) and the lights (strobe, smoke and flashing causes headaches).

Ditto. During the first night, I went into the rave so as to get some bags for some young ladies that accidentally left them behind during the Slants concert. I was only there for a few minutes, but in that time the lights gave me a headache and I got a sweat shower from someone "dancing".
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Offline Kimiski

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2012, 06:38:55 pm »
Hey guys! Let me step in for a moment and say something I learned about the ball, I too had some issues with it.

Yes, it should have probably started out ticketed, this was brought up at rant and rave so don't worry about it anymore. The ball went away for a year and then came back, and the popularity it had this year was not expected.

As far as how the line was handed, the way it should have went down was when we hit the fire code cap, the line should have been told that cap was met, and that the chance of getting in was highly unlikely, however for those still wanting to stay there and try, the line should not have been dispelled. As people came out, the same amount of people who went out should have been allowed in.

The reason there was a small line in the Hilton to the ball, I was finally told by directors who had figured out the problems I had with everything for me (thank you very much) was those people had gone in to the ball, and had come for the bathroom, things were very confusing so they needed to line up and be verified that they indeed had already been in, to get back in. All the line problems came down to a whole bunch of new untrained staff, mixed messages, failing radio's, and high stress levels.

No excuses, but that's how and why things went down.
All these have been brought to light, and in the future I know it'll be better.

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Also- as far as how things went down inside the ballroom, I cannot really attest since I didn't go in after what went down outside with the lines, but from what I heard, things should be taken a little less seriously. Many people cannot make the ballroom dances (which I heard were really backed up with long lines- for the same reason- lack of not expecting the popularity) so what's wrong with twirling around in costume. I also strongly believe in official hosts who go around asking people who do not have a date, etc to dance, to get them off the wall. =)
« Last Edit: September 04, 2012, 06:42:45 pm by Kimiski »


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Offline kiichain

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2012, 09:17:24 pm »
oyos

i think it would help to allow more people into this event if there was a sort of 'time slot' along with the ticket. so if the ball is to be only 1.5 hours again, there could be 3 - 30 minute sessions so that 3 times the people could attend eventually. while it would be kinda not worth it for just 30 minutes, at least it would give more people a chance to actually attend the dance. from my observations, there was quite a lot of early departing people (and i am not talking about bathroom breaks either), not to mention the wallflowers in the event itself. by limiting the amount of time for the session of dancing, it makes lessens the confusion cause by bathroom break people (honestly, majority of people are capable of waiting to use the restroom, not to mention going beforehand), and it would encourage the wallflowers to go out and dance because no one will genuinely go to a dance to simply stand on the sidelines but they wait longer to do so when they are of the mindset of having more time. when it comes to changing sessions, its a simple call out for having one last dance of the session and then have them exit (through a different door) so that the next batch of attendees can come in.

downside is less time but upside is more people will be able to attend. from seeing just how popular this event is, i would rather have a chance to attend over having a lot of time to ballroom dance.

Offline orlyfan15

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2012, 09:21:04 pm »
oyos

i think it would help to allow more people into this event if there was a sort of 'time slot' along with the ticket. so if the ball is to be only 1.5 hours again, there could be 3 - 30 minute sessions so that 3 times the people could attend eventually. while it would be kinda not worth it for just 30 minutes, at least it would give more people a chance to actually attend the dance. from my observations, there was quite a lot of early departing people (and i am not talking about bathroom breaks either), not to mention the wallflowers in the event itself. by limiting the amount of time for the session of dancing, it makes lessens the confusion cause by bathroom break people (honestly, majority of people are capable of waiting to use the restroom, not to mention going beforehand), and it would encourage the wallflowers to go out and dance because no one will genuinely go to a dance to simply stand on the sidelines but they wait longer to do so when they are of the mindset of having more time. when it comes to changing sessions, its a simple call out for having one last dance of the session and then have them exit (through a different door) so that the next batch of attendees can come in.

downside is less time but upside is more people will be able to attend. from seeing just how popular this event is, i would rather have a chance to attend over having a lot of time to ballroom dance.

i agree. some time is better than no time, and it's more fair for everyone
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Offline Zen

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2012, 09:51:52 pm »
I didn't know people were getting turned down from entering the ball because of fire regulations, that sucks. I guess I can see why they might need to turn it into a ticketed event or perhaps make it a little longer.
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Offline izamor

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2012, 12:01:36 pm »
Overall, my friends and I absolutely loved the ball. We’re all planning on practicing the waltz, foxtrot and swing for next year since it was all so much fun. I have to thank them for putting on 3 sessions of dance lessons, both as a refresher course for myself, and to make the ball that much better for everyone else.

Complaints:
That said, I did have some complaints that I thought were blemishes on the overall experience. Namely the limited number of people allowed in the ball, and how the line was handled, as discussed above. I would love to see a second ball either earlier in the day, or a ball on each evening before the raves. It’s not like a ball is necessarily a “night time” event like a rave is.

Another would be a more clearly stated dress code. I never had a problem, as I was possibly one of the most dressed up people at the whole con, but I was only hearing about the supposed dress code from random people, and never saw where they were actually posted. Even then, I had a couple friends who didn’t get in, because their cosplays were in the fence in terms of formality.

On another hand, one of my friends was given priority over others for no reason. A staffer said she was “the best Sebastian here,” and offered her to cut to the front of the line. She felt guilty and declined, so never actually made it into the ball. I’m not sure if this was just her, or other staff were playing favorites.

A small complaint – I wasn’t a fan of the rave-y music. That’s what the rave following the ball is for. My group would have loved a couple more swing songs; major props for whoever decided to play Zoot Suit Riot.

Suggestions:
We could unofficially organize a small ball out in the park. Someone could just bring an iPod with some speakers and start dancing. I’m sure a lot of others would join us.

I heard someone mention having hosts to offer dances to the “wallflowers,” or people without dates. I think this would be a great idea, and I wouldn’t mind doing this.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 12:03:29 pm by izamor »

Offline veraca

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2012, 12:05:35 pm »
In past years, it was part of the host's jobs to address the wallflowers and gt them dancing.

As per the dresscode, it was in the official thread and it was online. I'd like to think it was in the big colorful book from the swag bag, but I honestly didn't flip through mine this year other then to look over panel descriptions.
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Offline Oni Kitsune

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2012, 01:05:32 pm »
Hello everyone, I'm Fox and was in fact the person in charge of the ball.

First I would like to say thank you to those that have started this thread and have added to it. Every response in it will be taken seriously into consideration and used as a means for me to shape the ball toward hopefully becoming better in the coming con year (2013). Your concerns are valuable feedback and I want you all to feel your comments are important.

This was my first time handling the ball or an event like it, so trying to take into account the fire and safety cap with the room size was incredibly difficult. I was trying to find a proper amount of attendees while figuring in a good spacing for the much larger and more complex dance moves such as swing. Doing this was something that perhaps I could use some more work on, but I was trying to err on the side of safety rather than to pack the room for all and have an unfortunate occurrence.

On the thought of having two balls, while the idea is something to consider and it would be something the attendees may prefer it is not possible to do this at this time and in our current location. We have only a single room that is large enough to accommodate such a sized dance and it is one of a few events all competing for said space. A concert, two "rave" style dances, cosplay chess, AMV contest, etc. all share the same room. If we doubled the ball something would suffer. While I would have been so incredibly happy to have everyone attend, it just was not possible.

Nor would it be possible to split the ball into sections. Doing so may not seem like it would take more time but it truly will. Emptying a room and refilling it will take time and staff we just did not have at our disposal. As it is, we had to cut the play list by nearly a third to fit into the time slot given us and we still went slightly into the time given to the rave.

Making something a ticketed event will not solve this either. Con policy for ticketed events is that you are guaranteed a space in the event you have a ticket for only if you are in line at the opening of the event and prior to us allowing those without tickets in. If you are late and have a ticket we won't pull someone from an event for you unless it is a paid event such as sake tasting.

When it came to the dress code, we did in fact post the code in plenty of time for people to review it prior to the event. It was posted online at least a month prior (And I did receive several emails asking for clarification in that time.) and the morning of the event at both door and info booth. I explained to the lovely yoji and maids "recognizable cosplay" meant it must be recognized as a cosplay, not just someone wearing animal ears and claiming it is. As a cosplayer I understand it is not always easy to come up with the funds necessary to create elaborate outfits or to fit a costume to you but there are several ways around such issues. That someone was given priority for their costume actually infuriates me, and should I figure out whom among staff did that they will be spoken to about it.

That should not have happened and I deeply regret it if it did and apologize for such unacceptable behavior.

On behalf of the hosts, we did in fact have about 10 of them out there, working the walls and floor to sweep people into dancing. Mind you that is 10 people identified by a large boutonnerre to approximately 2-300 attendees. With an average (from what I saw) of 25-30 wall flowers, it was not possible to get everyone constantly dancing. Particularly if you are doing a full dance with some one and not just get on the floor, dance for a second, grab another flower. They were working hard, and constantly, myself included.

In reference to the music, we tried our best. There is always going to be something that displeases someone and while we tried sticking to more "nerdy" style it is hard to find proper songs to fit dances without finding the "rave-y" fits. We shall have more time to plan this out and fix the play list accordingly.

And as far as dance classes are concerned, we have discussed this repeatedly among those involved and have decided, as long as the teacher is willing and able, to have the classes on two days, thus doubling the amount of people learning.

Like I said before, though, this is still an event that is a work in progress. Hopefully we can fix it so that more people will be satisfied in future years. I personally considered it a success and feel my hosts were wonderful. I enjoyed interacting with the attendees even if I was not the best dancer.
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Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2012, 04:42:07 pm »
That said, I did have some complaints that I thought were blemishes on the overall experience. Namely the limited number of people allowed in the ball, and how the line was handled, as discussed above. I would love to see a second ball either earlier in the day, or a ball on each evening before the raves. It’s not like a ball is necessarily a “night time” event like a rave is.

Actually balls are, by original design, night time events.  Just throwing that out there.

Suggestions:
We could unofficially organize a small ball out in the park. Someone could just bring an iPod with some speakers and start dancing. I’m sure a lot of others would join us.

Problem with that: depending on the time, it could be likely that the park will be reserved by another group.  I'm also sure that the park committee of Clark County would be somewhat displeased that an unofficial dance was taking place at one of their key parks.
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Offline izamor

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2012, 06:08:23 pm »
True, balls take place in the evening - I should have rephrased that. A rave generally is meant to take place in a much darker room than a ball, thus putting on a ball mid-day wouldn't be as out of place.

I could see it being an issue if there were a few hundred people like the actual ball, but as I see it, starting with a handful of friends and letting it grow on its own wouldn't be much different than other unofficial gatherings, such as photo shoots or glomp circles.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 06:08:46 pm by izamor »

Offline Jamiche

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2012, 08:07:55 pm »
Just a couple of quick clarifications:

The Kumori Ball has never been a ticketed event, either as a hosted ball or a masquerade.  With so many people coming in and out, it's just not feasible.

When we capped the dance, there were about 330 people in there, including the hosts.  It's difficult to calculate fire code on an event like this (especially since it was our first in this room) because you need to take unto account room to dance.  Now that we have a better idea of how many can fit into the space, we can better plan for next year.

Fox has responded to many of your concerns (thanks, Fox :D) but I will comment on one: the dress code.  As she stated, the dress code has been on the website and forums for a few months now, it was printed in the con book, and signs were posted outside the event day of.  We have had a more restrictive dress code in the past (formal only) and that was an issue.  We changed it to semi-formal, and people still were unhappy.  We settled on the current dress code to try to form a happy compromise:  it is a semi-formal event, but since this is an anime convention, cosplay is allowed.
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Offline orlyfan15

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2012, 08:18:26 pm »
well that's strange then. 2 years ago when kumoricon was in portland, i remember getting a ticket for the kumoriball. but whatever
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Offline JeffT

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2012, 08:24:55 pm »
well that's strange then. 2 years ago when kumoricon was in portland, i remember getting a ticket for the kumoriball. but whatever

I don't know what may have happened last-minute at the con, but I checked the schedules for 2009 and 2010 and the Kumori Ball was not marked as ticketed each year.
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Offline Oni Kitsune

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2012, 08:58:02 pm »
I would also like to add that if a ball was held in the park it would be an attendee hosting it as the park is not convention space and any activity held over there would have to abide by city laws including but not limited to noise ordinance and littering laws. We as a convention can not possibly help with such an event.
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Offline orlyfan15

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2012, 08:59:31 pm »
well, i think it would be a good idea if it was a ticketed event. you could make enough tickets for how many people can be in the room plus some extra in case people leave. i think it's a lot better that way.
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Offline izamor

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2012, 09:09:10 pm »
I would also like to add that if a ball was held in the park it would be an attendee hosting it as the park is not convention space and any activity held over there would have to abide by city laws including but not limited to noise ordinance and littering laws. We as a convention can not possibly help with such an event.
Yes, I am aware of this, which is why I said "unofficially organize," as in something not actually put on by Kumoricon itself, but by the con-goers, much like photo shoots and glomp circles.

well, i think it would be a good idea if it was a ticketed event. you could make enough tickets for how many people can be in the room plus some extra in case people leave. i think it's a lot better that way.
With so many people going in and out during the whole event, I don't think this would work terribly well. From the start, the ball would be fine or maybe even a little crowded, but by the end with people leaving, there would probably be a lot of spare room, but no one left with a ticket to fill the gap, meaning even less people would get in, in the end.

Offline orlyfan15

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2012, 10:14:36 pm »
I would also like to add that if a ball was held in the park it would be an attendee hosting it as the park is not convention space and any activity held over there would have to abide by city laws including but not limited to noise ordinance and littering laws. We as a convention can not possibly help with such an event.
Yes, I am aware of this, which is why I said "unofficially organize," as in something not actually put on by Kumoricon itself, but by the con-goers, much like photo shoots and glomp circles.

well, i think it would be a good idea if it was a ticketed event. you could make enough tickets for how many people can be in the room plus some extra in case people leave. i think it's a lot better that way.
With so many people going in and out during the whole event, I don't think this would work terribly well. From the start, the ball would be fine or maybe even a little crowded, but by the end with people leaving, there would probably be a lot of spare room, but no one left with a ticket to fill the gap, meaning even less people would get in, in the end.


i see your point. that's why i thought extra tickets could be made for that. I just think tickets would be a better idea cause i think it would make everyone a little happier. in the case with this year and no tickets, i planned to get there right when you could start lining up. for me to do that, i had to head back to my hotel room to get ready earlier instead of going to other events. then i waited in line for 30-45 mins. thinking i would get in, but i didn't cause it became full. yes, i was irked i couldn't get in, but i was more irked that i had to make time to get ready and wait in line for an event i wasn't even gonna get in to. the reason i think the tickets could solve this problem is because you have to get them earlier in the day, and if you can't get one you can plan to do something else during the time of the ball. yes, i know there is no way everyone who wants to get into the ball can get into the ball, and yes, either way ticked or not ticked people are going to be disappointed that they can't get in, but i see it as a better solution to make it a ticked event so that way people don't think they can get the most con experience they can.
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Offline Styx

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2012, 10:18:28 pm »
I just wish I could have gotten in at all.  With the rave dances, people could enter and leave at will during that dance, once enough people had left that more could go in, but with this one I got there about 30 minutes later because I had wanted to do something else first, and I thought, "Sure, I'll wait in line a bit and then get in hopefully, I'm fine with that," but I was told once I got there that they were not letting anyone else in.  I was really disappointed, because the ball was one of my favorite parts of Kumoricon a couple years ago, and I don't understand why people couldn't just wait for more people to leave, and why they were forbidding it outright.

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2012, 11:07:12 pm »
Quote
i see your point. that's why i thought extra tickets could be made for that. I just think tickets would be a better idea cause i think it would make everyone a little happier. in the case with this year and no tickets, i planned to get there right when you could start lining up. for me to do that, i had to head back to my hotel room to get ready earlier instead of going to other events. then i waited in line for 30-45 mins. thinking i would get in, but i didn't cause it became full. yes, i was irked i couldn't get in, but i was more irked that i had to make time to get ready and wait in line for an event i wasn't even gonna get in to. the reason i think the tickets could solve this problem is because you have to get them earlier in the day, and if you can't get one you can plan to do something else during the time of the ball. yes, i know there is no way everyone who wants to get into the ball can get into the ball, and yes, either way ticked or not ticked people are going to be disappointed that they can't get in, but i see it as a better solution to make it a ticked event so that way people don't think they can get the most con experience they can.
No, I completely understand where you're coming from. You sacrifice con time, or give up other events to sit in a line, and in the end you're told that it was in vain and you have to cut your losses.

Maybe they could keep a rough estimate of how many people are in line, and once they reach a certain point, warn those who continue to line up that they may or may not make it in. It would still be disappointing, of course, but at least they wouldn't be sitting in line for 30-45 minutes before they find this out. It would also allow those in line to decide whether it is worth waiting or not to find out if they can make it in.

Offline TanisNikana

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #37 on: September 05, 2012, 11:48:03 pm »
Thank you all for cooperating with me when I was keeping the line. <3

Offline Rathany

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2012, 12:21:32 am »
I just wish I could have gotten in at all.  With the rave dances, people could enter and leave at will during that dance, once enough people had left that more could go in, but with this one I got there about 30 minutes later because I had wanted to do something else first, and I thought, "Sure, I'll wait in line a bit and then get in hopefully, I'm fine with that," but I was told once I got there that they were not letting anyone else in.  I was really disappointed, because the ball was one of my favorite parts of Kumoricon a couple years ago, and I don't understand why people couldn't just wait for more people to leave, and why they were forbidding it outright.

Even allowing the 50 or so people we allowed to wait in line during the ball caused labor intensive crowd control issues.  Far less than half of those who waited in line during the ball got in.  It took two staffers during the dance to control that line and the crowd control issues it caused.  If we allowed as many people who wanted to line up without even the faintest glimmer of hope of getting in ...  we would have needed more than two staffers during that two hour period.  

Line control is hard work.  Even when it's a line of people who are definitely getting into an event, it's not easy.  

BTW - Let me take this chance to thank every staffer and volunteer who I worked with that night.  I know that at least three of you weren't assigned to help with line and door at the ball and the dance, but you kept coming by to make sure we were good, covering bathroom breaks, opening extra doors during the rave as exit-only so there was more ventilation, etc.  The excellent work of both the assigned staff and the extra help from the people who didn't mind working and extra hour here or there seemed to have a great impact on how well things went.  
« Last Edit: September 06, 2012, 12:25:04 am by Rathany »
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Offline GregAtlas

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #39 on: September 06, 2012, 01:26:43 am »
I didn't try to go to the ball myself due to time issues and thinking my cosplay would not have been let in, though I did want to go. I would like to offer some input though.

I don't like the idea of ticketed event because then I wouldn't be able to afford it since I spent most of my limited budget on actually being able to come to the con. This is the reason I don't go to the cosplay chess or any of the other ticketed events. (Unless I am mistaken about the concept of a ticketed event at a con, in which case I would very much like that to be clarified on the website and the pamphlet. since I missed such events both years I have come to k-con)

Dress code may have been clarified for staff, but not for con-goers. The rules were in the pamphlet if I remember right along with all the places that have been mentioned before, but it was confusing enough that everyone I talked to were having trouble deciding if they would be allowed or not. I was talking to one of the staff on day 3 who worked as a bouncer for the ball and he was feeling pretty bad about having to turn away people for reasons that should have been specified in the rules as well (one of his examples being that he had to turn away people in formal business attire that would not be classified as semi-formal).

Suitable music for a ball shouldn't be too hard to find. People have been dancing to that kind of music for centuries. I thought the change in music was part of the reason for holding the ball in place of yet another rave, but I could even hear rave music from up at the photobooth shortly after the ball started.

Perhaps next year (I hope there will be one next year) there could be a live band? Portland/Vancouver, I'm sure, has a plethora of qualified bands, some of which might just be willing to volunteer for the sake of press perhaps. Get in contact with the crystal ballroom or anywhere else that provides such services to see if they have any advise. Perhaps another idea would be to get in contact with some of the higher level high schools or Clark College to get something booked for their jazz bands. When I was in my high school jazz band we went out for performances like that quite often. Then again, if school is still out by then or just starting... that wouldn't work unless we're talking college bands or high schools with wonky block schedules that don't allow for summer vacations.

As stated before by others: Thank you staffers. I may not have gone, but thank you anyways.
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Offline JeffT

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #40 on: September 06, 2012, 02:03:22 am »
I don't like the idea of ticketed event because then I wouldn't be able to afford it since I spent most of my limited budget on actually being able to come to the con. This is the reason I don't go to the cosplay chess or any of the other ticketed events. (Unless I am mistaken about the concept of a ticketed event at a con, in which case I would very much like that to be clarified on the website and the pamphlet. since I missed such events both years I have come to k-con)

"Ticketed" just means that you need a ticket to reserve your spot. It doesn't mean extra cost. The website and swag bag insert do clarify:

Quote
Some events are “ticketed events”, which means that, to guarantee seating, you need to pick up a ticket earlier in the day to attend. Due to popular demand, all tickets may be given away sometime prior to the event. These tickets are free and can be picked up at the Programming Booth in the East-facing lobby of the Hilton on the same day as the event. (Some events require an extra fee to attend. Events which do not specify an additional fee, but are merely labeled “Ticketed Event”, do not require an extra fee.) Clarification: When the event starts, if there is extra space, non-ticket-holders will then be allowed to enter.

https://www.kumoricon.org/events
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Offline GregAtlas

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #41 on: September 06, 2012, 04:05:44 am »
I don't like the idea of ticketed event because then I wouldn't be able to afford it since I spent most of my limited budget on actually being able to come to the con. This is the reason I don't go to the cosplay chess or any of the other ticketed events. (Unless I am mistaken about the concept of a ticketed event at a con, in which case I would very much like that to be clarified on the website and the pamphlet. since I missed such events both years I have come to k-con)

"Ticketed" just means that you need a ticket to reserve your spot. It doesn't mean extra cost. The website and swag bag insert do clarify:
ah, I see now. First time pulling out the piece of paper with the viewing schedule (which was incidentally also the last thing I just pulled out of my bag.) There is no mention of it in the pocket guide. It could be useful to add that information if there were ever a page that added a symbol key for the pocket guide. I personally never looked at the events web page since I planned out my schedule while actually at the con but it is good to see that information there as well at least for the people who do go through the entire bag or look for an insert with the viewing schedule.

There is also no mention in the main book about that policy, though under Miscellanea it says "Some events, such as the guest dinner, may require additional payment for admittance. Policies are subject to change."

So in combination of those things in addition to the term ticket normally implying there is a fee I would hope you can understand my confusion.
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Offline JeffT

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #42 on: September 06, 2012, 04:14:09 am »
It was actually on the insert because we forgot it in the program book and pocket guide. Normally it would be in those, and not on any insert.
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Offline GregAtlas

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #43 on: September 06, 2012, 04:36:12 am »
I just finished looking through all of the stuff from the bag I received last year and it wasn't mentioned anywhere, including the viewing room schedule. So, it was an improvement this year, but it still got lost in the advertisements. At least I will know for next year so I won't have to miss out on the cosplay chess if my friend invites me to participate again. (Assuming I go next year, which is a big assumption.)
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Offline JeffT

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #44 on: September 06, 2012, 04:58:09 am »
I just finished looking through all of the stuff from the bag I received last year and it wasn't mentioned anywhere, including the viewing room schedule. So, it was an improvement this year, but it still got lost in the advertisements. At least I will know for next year so I won't have to miss out on the cosplay chess if my friend invites me to participate again. (Assuming I go next year, which is a big assumption.)

The pocket guide last year listed it in the legend as distinct from "fee", so it was suggested correctly even if left unclarified. Although it could have been communicated more clearly, it wasn't implied to be a fee--in particular, no prices were stated.
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Offline Himura Kenshin

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #45 on: September 14, 2012, 12:43:28 am »
I never got into the ball, but I do want to throw in my two cents here regarding music:

I was reading this and I saw some complaints and mention of appropriate music being hard to find? I can actually think of a lot of music right now that would have been very appropriate. A lot of video game music tends to have some good dance worthy tracks, and then again better yet.

Why not just old fashioned classical music? A little Beethoven never hurt anyone, and I've heard plenty of classical music of the sort in various anime I've seen. It's extremely appropriate for a ball, and though it may not be "nerdy" it is at least better than using rave music.

Something like this, perhaps:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3Mwa23WCIA


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Offline veraca

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #46 on: September 14, 2012, 02:57:21 pm »
^ This.

Beethoven, Mozart, Vivaldi, and many more.... Classical music (orchestra, violin, piano versions) doesn't have to be limited to just listening to and going "ooh that's pretty". Lots of music, even in modern movies/games/anime involve beats that'd be cool to dance to. Sure, what I find from Mozart is a lot of 1-2min long songs, but when dancing that's a long time. And the OST from "Ouran Highschool Host Club" has a few of the songs as waltz's, same with from "Soul Eater".

I'm sure if someone looked through OSTs from video games (FF [there's a waltz dance in at least two of these games], Zelda, Chrono Cross, Ar Tonelico) and from anime (Ouran, Uta-Pri, Soul Eater) there should be a good variety.

Personally I think it'd be kind of interesting to have a song from Beethoven (Moonlight - Adagio sostenuto) that'd transfer into the Ouran waltz and into "Fragile Dreams" ("Must Eliminate..." or "Friends"). I also think it'd be funny to dance to a song from "Yoshi's Story" or a level from "Mario 64". Maybe not everyone will know the music, but most-to-all have a clear beat you could dance to without it being "rave" music.

It'd be even cooler if we did something like that, that on the forums later we could be given a playlist of what songs were played so if someone wants to listen to it again or find it, they could.
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Offline TanisNikana

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #47 on: September 14, 2012, 04:28:55 pm »
Quote
beats

I think you're confusing "ball" and "rave".

Offline Pixie

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #48 on: September 14, 2012, 10:02:25 pm »
When they said kumoriBALL, I expected an abundance of classical music.  When the 'rave songs' started playing, and didn't let up - I was disappointed  :'(.  I couldn't leave, I was hosting, but raves just aren't my cup of tea... and Kumoriball 2012 was definitely a rave in all but name.



Also, to all staff with power over music volume at the events:

COULD THE VOLUME BE TURNED DOWN NEXT TIME!?!?
For goodness sake, I should have worn earplugs underneath a pair of noise cancelling headphones.  Even when I plugged my ears with my fingers, the music volume was painful; I was nursing a splitting headache by the time it was halfway through.  Please, please, don't play music anywhere near that volume next year.
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Offline DarkStar

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Re: Kumoriball 2012
« Reply #49 on: September 15, 2012, 04:40:54 pm »
When they said kumoriBALL, I expected an abundance of classical music.  When the 'rave songs' started playing, and didn't let up - I was disappointed  :'(.  I couldn't leave, I was hosting, but raves just aren't my cup of tea... and Kumoriball 2012 was definitely a rave in all but name.



Also, to all staff with power over music volume at the events:

COULD THE VOLUME BE TURNED DOWN NEXT TIME!?!?
For goodness sake, I should have worn earplugs underneath a pair of noise cancelling headphones.  Even when I plugged my ears with my fingers, the music volume was painful; I was nursing a splitting headache by the time it was halfway through.  Please, please, don't play music anywhere near that volume next year.
As one of the individuals responsible for the operation of equipment in the Main Events room, I could certainly offer a few suggestions to help make things more pleasant for everyone in the ball. The first would be to encourage those at the ball to keep personal conversations to a minimum and if needed to take things offline (outside).

Also, your location in the room could make a large difference as well. We were driving the front of house speakers just a bit louder than the rear of house speakers to try to keep the music just above the ambient level of the room. This would also allow those that wanted quieter music to be toward the back of the room.

Another good idea would be to make sure the music sources are taking from high quality CDs and then all properly normalized to be the same volume level. I did notice that some tracks varied quite heavily, making it difficult to maintain a consistent volume level.
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