Author Topic: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!  (Read 29951 times)

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Offline jaybug

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Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« on: May 01, 2011, 08:55:41 pm »
Have you been out dancing in the streets?

I didn't think so.

And do you know what? We won't care all that much unless the price of oil drops. The president may get some mileage out of this, but not much if the economy does not get up off its knees.
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Offline StarryShay

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2011, 08:56:56 pm »
I feel bad for him ' A '
He had to spend the last ten years of his life hiding....

Offline Saki-the-cat

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2011, 08:57:28 pm »
I thought he was already dead, so when i heard this news from everyone on DA i was just thinking people were really slow...

Offline MiriaRose

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2011, 09:18:15 pm »
I dunno, I'm pretty happy he's dead.

EDIT: For clarification: I'm happy he's dead because it means more deaths will be averted. He wasn't the most 'evil' person ever, and there are people who 'deserve' to die more.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2011, 09:31:23 pm by MiriaRose »
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Offline Darknight2433

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2011, 09:25:47 pm »
RIP dude

Offline lychee-twist

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2011, 10:02:38 pm »
I feel bad for him ' A '
He had to spend the last ten years of his life hiding....

RIP dude

"Yeah, well, you know, that's, like, your opinion, man."
Shay, you are a lot nicer than I will ever be on the matter. I mean that whole-heartedly and unsarcastically with absolutely no malice.

Here's my opinion:
Good riddance, I say, and this isn't some "Never Forget" nonsense. You reap what you sew, and after murdering thousands of people, not just on 9-11, and the destruction of centuries old art, I have little sympathy for the man. There was a point in time in the Middle East in which women actually had a voice and didn't have to wear burqas, and what goes on now with some crazy fundamentalists is sub-human at best.

 Surreal day, but good news in my humble opinion. It won't change anything for sure, but at least it's something. I don't think he's been the head of Al Qaida for a while, but at least it's something. It's not going to affect the oil prices, sadly, and it's a definite boostie to the President's chances of re-election, but this is a type of satisfaction that I imagine a lot of Jews had upon hearing that Hitler died from hiding in his bunker. Didn't change what happened, didn't make the Nazi influence go away, but it was something.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2011, 10:08:30 pm by lychee-twist »
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Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2011, 10:08:22 pm »
Have you been out dancing in the streets?

I was dancing in my father's living room; does that count?

I feel bad for him ' A '
He had to spend the last ten years of his life hiding....

 :o

Are you serious?  The man deserved it!  I just hope his death was as long and painful as it could have been!

Good riddance, I say. This isn't some "Never Forget" nonsense. You reap what you sew, and after murdering thousands of people, not just on 9-11, and the destruction of centuries old art for make me have little sympathy for the man. He didn't have to hide in a cave. He just knew he'd be killed if he didn't. Surreal day, but if true, a happy one. It won't change anything for sure, but at least it's something. I don't think he's been the head of Al Qaida for a while, but at least it's something.

Agree 100%.

and it's a definite boostie to the President's chances of re-election

Not sure on this, though...
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Offline MiriaRose

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2011, 10:10:12 pm »
I feel bad for him ' A '
He had to spend the last ten years of his life hiding....

RIP dude

"Yeah, well, you know, that's, like, your opinion, man."
Shay, you are a lot nicer than I will ever be on the matter. I mean that whole-heartedly and unsarcastically with absolutely no malice.

Here's my opinion:
Good riddance, I say, and this isn't some "Never Forget" nonsense. You reap what you sew, and after murdering thousands of people, not just on 9-11, and the destruction of centuries old art, I have little sympathy for the man. There was a point in time in the Middle East in which women actually had a voice and didn't have to wear burqas, and what goes on now with some crazy fundamentalists is sub-human at best.

 Surreal day, but good news in my humble opinion. It won't change anything for sure, but at least it's something. I don't think he's been the head of Al Qaida for a while, but at least it's something. It's not going to affect the oil prices, sadly, and it's a definite boostie to the President's chances of re-election, but this is a type of satisfaction that I imagine a lot of Jews had upon hearing that Hitler died from hiding in his bunker. Didn't change what happened, didn't make the Nazi influence go away, but it was something.
So, do you think President Bush deserves to die for leading more to their deaths than bin Laden?
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Offline lychee-twist

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2011, 10:15:16 pm »
There is a large difference between leading a willing army to war than an unprovoked and unnecessary act, but, yes, I do think Bush, Cheney, Rumsfield, etc. do need to be tried as war criminals. Let the courts decide whether or not they are guilty.

Bin Laden laid proud claim to the murders he committed. He would do it again and again. Bush, at the very least, stopped once out of office. At the very least, the upmost fundamental level, it is safe to assume that Bush did not take pleasure in the killing of people. I am not a Bush sympathizer so please don't misunderstand me, but I do believe that in a lot of areas he wanted to genuinely do well for this country. In the subject of oil, though, that opinion changes quite a bit, and I wonder the position of oil within the War on Iraq. If papers are released giving a definitive tie between oil and the Iraqi war, then Bush definitely needs to be tried. You don't kill soldiers and innocent Middle Eastern people over oil.

Wa-kun, Bush found Saddam Hussein right before the 2004 election, and his approval ratings suddenly rocketed. I can only imagine that Obama will find the same positive polling results.

EDIT: Took out a statement since I started to make assumptions about your opinion, Miria, when you were just asking a question.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2011, 10:19:19 pm by lychee-twist »
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Offline MiriaRose

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2011, 10:19:26 pm »
I doubt bin Laden took pleasure in killing people. Unless you have proof he was a sadist?

Obama is continuing the wars, btw- Does that mean he's a war criminal, too? There's still been plenty of civillian deaths since 2009, not to mention that Gitmo and similar prisons are still up and running.
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Offline lychee-twist

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2011, 10:21:39 pm »
He came out and said that he was responsible for 9-11. To me that is proof enough.

I'm fully aware that Obama is continuing the war, and that's something that I knew wouldn't end when I voted for him. My preferred candidate dropped out, and he actually would provide a solution to getting out of Iraq when asked. Guantanamo Bay was another thing that I knew wouldn't close.

There's a difference between maintaining and starting, but that's something to think about Miria. What's your opinion on Osama Bin Laden's death?
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Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2011, 10:21:53 pm »
So, do you think President Bush deserves to die for leading more to their deaths than bin Laden?

To be blunt, no, I don't.  He did nothing wrong in terms of basic objective.  I will agree that the strategies that were used were most definitely not the best ones, but at least he wasn't convincing people to slaughter thousands of people for the "sin" of living a different lifestyle.

Wa-kun, Bush found Saddam Hussein right before the 2004 election, and his approval ratings suddenly rocketed. I can only imagine that Obama will find the same positive polling results.

Except that Obama wasn't the one that started this "war."  Personally, I think the only thing that he did that deserves any crediting (in this subject) is that he chose to continue the fighting rather than withdraw the troops, like he originally said he was going to do.  I know his popularity will boost up a little bit, which I think is dumb, but I doubt it will be enough to get him re-elected.  We'll have to wait & see what happens tomorrow and from here on out before I'll believe he has a chance at another 4 years.
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Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2011, 10:22:34 pm »
I doubt bin Laden took pleasure in killing people. Unless you have proof he was a sadist?

How about the videos that HE HIMSELF SENT in which he was singing praise to Allah for the death of the American infidels?
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Offline lychee-twist

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2011, 10:23:41 pm »
Miria, is the debater in you going crazy right now? ;)

 I hope I'm being respectful to everyone's opinions. I'm trying to be at least, but I'm going to be honest about what I feel. I'm open to hearing other people's opinions, but when it comes to sympathizing with killers, I don't have a lot of room for that.

BTW, just because my icon totes a gun and a skull, that's not a reflection on me, even if it doesn't seem like it at the moment. I am liberal minded, but perhaps not on this subject.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2011, 10:25:32 pm by lychee-twist »
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Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2011, 10:26:17 pm »
I hope I'm being respectful to everyone's opinions. I'm trying to be at least, but I'm going to be honest about what I feel. I'm open to hearing other people's opinions, but when it comes to sympathizing with killers, I don't have a lot of room for that.

Same here.
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Offline MiriaRose

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2011, 10:27:35 pm »
He came out and said that he was responsible for 9-11. To me that is proof enough.

I'm fully aware that Obama is continuing the war, and that's something that I knew wouldn't end when I voted for him. My preferred candidate dropped out, and he actually would provide a solution to getting out of Iraq when asked. Guantanamo Bay was another thing that I knew wouldn't close.

There's a difference between maintaining and starting, but that's something to think about Miria. What's your opinion on Osama Bin Laden's death?
True, but that doesn't make him a sadist.

I already posted my opinion on bin Laden's death here- I'm glad he died because it means that some deaths will be averted. I don't think he deserved to die, but it's better than him being in US custody because he'd be absolutely dehumanized.

I'd rather he had just reformed and tried to make the Middle East better in different ways like supporting human rights and democracy, but that wasn't gonna happen.

So, do you think President Bush deserves to die for leading more to their deaths than bin Laden?

To be blunt, no, I don't.  He did nothing wrong in terms of basic objective.  I will agree that the strategies that were used were most definitely not the best ones, but at least he wasn't convincing people to slaughter thousands of people for the "sin" of living a different lifestyle.
That wasn't why al-Qaeda attacked the US, at least not originally. They wanted us to GTFO of the Middle East.

He wasn't convincing people to slaughter thousands of people for that reason, but he was convincing them to slaughter millions and dehumanize thousands, and I don't care what the reason is- That's not okay.

I doubt bin Laden took pleasure in killing people. Unless you have proof he was a sadist?

How about the videos that HE HIMSELF SENT in which he was singing praise to Allah for the death of the American infidels?
Now there's some proof!

Miria, is the debater in you going crazy right now? ;)

 I hope I'm being respectful to everyone's opinions. I'm trying to be at least, but I'm going to be honest about what I feel. I'm open to hearing other people's opinions, but when it comes to sympathizing with killers, I don't have a lot of room for that.

BTW, just because my icon totes a gun and a skull, that's not a reflection on me, even if it doesn't seem like it at the moment. I am liberal minded, but perhaps not on this subject.

I'm very pleased because this is going way better than my Facebook debates right now. Seriously, you guys are way more mature here than the people on Facebook. Be happy.

I try to be open to others' opinions as well. I'm extremely radical and firm in my beliefs, I know, but that doesn't mean I don't listen to what others have to say.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2011, 10:31:33 pm by MiriaRose »
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Offline lychee-twist

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2011, 10:38:33 pm »
Miria, you were the one who brought up the term sadist. I don't think he is, but I think he is someone who was happy when all the people he killed died since they were his enemies. While I am happy Osama is dead, does that make me a sadist? It's the same logic.

I missed your opinion. I guess I didn't look at the name. Personally, I'd rather have him go through trial like Saddam Hussein than die the way he did. The US can most definitely protect someone from being killed, no matter how much they are hated. I would think that all the child rapist and killers living in solitary confinement is proof of that.

Oh, man, it'd be great had he reformed and turned things around, but that wouldn't ever happened. He'd still die for his crimes, and I honestly think that because he had to hide, Al Qaida started taking commands from someone else. Can anyone confirm whether or not Bin Laden was on dialysis? I've heard about it a couple times, but I've never confirmed it.

Stuff like this: http://news.nationalpost.com/2010/11/20/graphic-anatomy-of-a-stoning/ makes me angry because of the suffering it causes and, on a more minor level, how biased it is for men over women. It's a description of stoning techniques for adulterers based on the Islamic Penal Code. The link is totally safe and not gory, but the content might bother some.

EDIT: Changed the website since I didn't like the blog it came from.

Miria, I'm trying to be open and not go all "RAWR" on people. Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, and something like this event is one that no one will be fully justified with. I'm glad we're proving more civil that your Facebook page right now. :) If I keep editing my posts, I'm just trying to maintain that civility while making my thoughts clear.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2011, 10:42:59 pm by lychee-twist »
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Offline MiriaRose

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2011, 10:46:32 pm »
Miria, you were the one who brought up the term sadist. I don't think he is, but I think he is someone who was happy when all the people he killed died since they were his enemies. While I am happy Osama is dead, does that make me a sadist? It's the same logic.
Sorry, I admit I took that a bit far. What I meant was that I didn't think he got pleasure from killing people, but Washougal brought up evidence that he did. Oh well.

Quote
I missed your opinion. I guess I didn't look at the name. Personally, I'd rather have him go through trial like Saddam Hussein than die the way he did. The US can most definitely protect someone from being killed, no matter how much they are hated. I would think that all the child rapist and killers living in solitary confinement is proof of that.
I don't trust trials because the people involved are all biased, but it's certainly better than just killing him. Still, though, I'd rather he be dead than in prison because of how much we'd abuse him. Think of Gitmo, and times that by 10. No one deserves that.

Quote
Oh, man, it'd be great had he reformed and turned things around, but that wouldn't ever happened. He'd still die for his crimes, and I honestly think that because he had to hide, Al Qaida started taking commands from someone else. Can anyone confirm whether or not Bin Laden was on dialysis? I've heard about it a couple times, but I've never confirmed it.
I'm so anti-death penalty it's not even funny, so I don't think he should have died for his crimes had he reformed, but he didn't reform so that's silly to talk about.

I'm pretty sure al-Qaeda was taking commands from someone else, too, but I can't cite it.

Quote
Stuff like this: http://news.nationalpost.com/2010/11/20/graphic-anatomy-of-a-stoning/ makes me angry because of the suffering it causes and, on a more minor level, how biased it is for men over women. It's a description of stoning techniques for adulterers based on the Islamic Penal Code. The link is totally safe and not gory, but the content might bother some.

EDIT: Changed the website since I didn't like the blog it came from.
It makes me mad, too. Sharia law in general makes me mad, actually. Actually, law based off of religion makes me mad. Oh dear.

I'd argue that the sexism isn't minor, but it is on a different level. I'm against suffering of all kinds, but that doesn't mean that the people perpetuating it deserve to die. They need to see the error of their ways and reform.
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Offline TheDevilsNightmare

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2011, 11:19:39 pm »
SERIOUS! i LEFT FACEBOOK HOPEFULLY NOT HOPING TO SEE THIS AND YET HERE WE GO THE SAME THING.......

Offline lychee-twist

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2011, 11:28:16 pm »
Devil, then probably not the best idea to post here since you're going to get the updates from here on out. Do what I do next time and just ignore it.
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Offline MiriaRose

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2011, 11:28:52 pm »
SERIOUS! i LEFT FACEBOOK HOPEFULLY NOT HOPING TO SEE THIS AND YET HERE WE GO THE SAME THING.......
So don't click on the link? It's not hard to ignore it.
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Offline TheDevilsNightmare

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2011, 11:36:18 pm »
9/11 was planned so 1 guy dead makes no difference

Offline DaemonForce

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2011, 12:08:34 am »
I feel bad for him ' A '
We should meet someday. Something tells me you can't fall victim to my dark influence. This thought interests me greatly.
RIP dude
Read: Rest in pieces... :D
this is a type of satisfaction that I imagine a lot of Jews had upon hearing that Hitler died from hiding in his bunker.
Better!
There is a large difference between leading a willing army to war than an unprovoked and unnecessary act, but, yes, I do think Bush, Cheney, Rumsfield, etc. do need to be tried as war criminals. Let the courts decide whether or not they are guilty.
It's only a crime if you lose. "Mission Accomplished" aren't quite the words of a loser. :/
9/11 was planned so 1 guy dead makes no difference
So I suppose his life didn't make much of a difference either...

This wouldn't be news if that were the case. The guy deliberately attacked this country, destroyed lives, rattled the minds of millions, made us overly aware of muslim communities here in America and most importantly made it very clear to me what kind of powers and stupidity this world has to offer. MacArthur was right. There is no security. It's all opportunity and depending on who and where you are, that can make all the difference in the world.

I just hope people don't relax over this news. This is exactly the sort of thing that causes us to drop our guard long enough for another sneak attack. Don't buy it.
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Offline lychee-twist

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2011, 12:11:54 am »
When the troops do come home permanently, then I will most definitely be celebrating in the streets with everyone on TV. Until that time, however, I'm going to stay inside where it's warm.

I agree with your last statement, Daemon. This type of action won't go without ticking a lot of people off. I wish life was a lot more simple and people's minds a lot more accepting to different things.

Skeptical, happy bliss wearing off. Skeptical solemn reflection coming in, now.

EDIT: To nitpick my original post, it should say "Hitler died while hiding in his bunker". The original wording sounds like hiding in a bunker was the cause of his death, not his suicide by gunshot (or cyanide pill according to the Soviets).
« Last Edit: May 02, 2011, 12:14:31 am by lychee-twist »
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Offline DaemonForce

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2011, 12:33:33 am »
When the troops do come home permanently, then I will most definitely be celebrating in the streets with everyone on TV.
When the troops come home permanently, I won't be around anymore. My phantom will remain but not much else will survive that kind of disaster. It brings the frontline to our borders. I'm not Homeland Security, US VISIT, the National Guard and have no business being either of the three. Still, it would reverse our economic situation if we were to use that strategy and have countries pay US to be their allies for once. I'm still trying to weigh the impact but so far it all seems good.
I wish life was a lot more simple and people's minds a lot more accepting to different things.
Can't afford it. Humans have an unremarkably low capacity for acceptance of outside ideas because the majority are trained to be between good-for-nothing and doomed. The vile nature of human scum keeps this world balanced in clockwork(so get back in line, sheeple!). All's well ends well. :)
The original wording sounds like hiding in a bunker was the cause of his death
It might as well be. He was trapped in his own walls of futility only to savor his impending doom(and the constant reminders from a few nasty girls...Giggity...). Something tells me if he could tell us what he thought about his life his last words would have been "it was worth it." >.>'
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Offline luvan1me

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2011, 02:12:49 am »
just going to say one thing about everything other than this topic in general... i'm saying this about all things relating to 911 and all this bloody war CRAP that has been going on for MUCH too long. when it comes to this and the bush shiz and the obama vote "raising" and the crazed religion believers (both American-igion and Osama-igion) and the oil scandal/myth and the troops that died for nothing/something or the facts/lies that we hear about after the year 2001.

Let. It. Be.

but of course people will debate and rant and scream in the name of whomever seems "preferable", and of course there will be the very ignorant and arrogant people arguing back and forth about nonsense, and although many speak out their whole hearted honest opinion, those will be very much missed and looked over or bashed for being "un-american" or "stupid" or "wtf??? you some terrorist??".

I believe that somehow, by not bringing up these kind of things, after they should have been dead YEARS ago, and NOT doing anything about it, it's just a waste of my time! I can't do much, other than not vote for someone who will continue this and vote for someone else who will promise me better things... but what is this country other than just empty promises? if you can't do anything other than complain about events that happen, or gossip more about these things (because face it people, we don't know the whole truth! as if the government or even the news would tell us the whole story! and even if they did, why should we base all our facts on our own bias news. we weren't even there!)

what i'm saying is. if you can only complain about things that have long been dead, and either it's impossible to change anything, or it IS possible to DO something, then do not feed the flames of the oiled up chat, and put out that flame with strong waves of action! (wow that was cheesy lol)

Do. Not Rant.

p.s. i love these kind of discussions, but i don't think this is worth talking about. just like hitler's "death". it's just not news. it's history (oh god not another pun) *end of rant* XD

Offline reppy

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2011, 06:04:24 am »
I'm pretty darn pleased.

Osama would never reform.  He was a radical follower of Sayyid Qutb.  He more or less believed that any Muslim that did not adhere to a strict interpretation of Islam was in fact "not a Muslim" and could be killed as an apostate.  If he had changed his mind on his interpretation, he would have been killed long before we had a chance to get at him.

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Offline @random

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2011, 07:58:01 am »
I'm pretty darn pleased.

Osama would never reform.  He was a radical follower of Sayyid Qutb.  He more or less believed that any Muslim that did not adhere to a strict interpretation of Islam was in fact "not a Muslim" and could be killed as an apostate.  If he had changed his mind on his interpretation, he would have been killed long before we had a chance to get at him.

Or if they had two brain cells to rub together, they would have leaked his location to the Americans... then he could at least serve the cause as a martyr who was shot down in a blaze of glory.

(No, I'm not seriously suggesting he had reconsidered. He'd been trapped in his own world for years, surrounded by followers who enthusiastically agreed with any and all of his paranoid fantasies of righteousness... look at what that did to Glenn Beck. Crazy doesn't get more in touch with reality when it's locked away in a closet, it just festers and gets worse.)

~~~

I think there's a fundamental misconception in how we're trying to combat the terrorists. We imagine that they'll be discouraged by hearing that we can kill them, or cause them suffering. They revel in it. To us, bin Laden is a symbol of how they failed. To them, bin Laden is someone who defied all of America for nearly ten years, finally becoming a glorious martyr. Someone who "made a difference", perverted and unholy as it may have been. And to those who are despondent, he's the symbol of hope that they can also "make a difference" before they die - because they're convinced that they'll die a dog's death anyway, so they might as well go down fighting.

We don't win by convincing terrorists that we can make them die. We win by giving tomorrow's terrorists something to live for: The hope that there's a way to make life better for their families without dying gloriously. The hope that they have a way to make a difference other than by making the "oppressors" bleed until they go away. And we don't do that by hooting and hollering about how great we are and how we can crush anyone who opposes us.

Should we be glad that a murderer is dead? Your mileage may vary, probably in tandem with how you feel about the death penalty. Should we treat the occasion like a birthday party? Only if we want to raise up more of the same hatred that spawned him.
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Offline reppy

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2011, 10:31:13 am »
I see no reason why both of those goals could not be accomplished:  kill terrorists in an intelligent manner, taking care not to harm innocent people, while working to put an end to the situations that serve as a recruiting tool for terrorist organizations.

Of course, I would be pleased with arresting and jailing terrorists, too . . but they're not likely to allow themselves to be arrested.

I do sort of wonder how much these guys truly wanted to be martyrs -- if the claim that a woman was used to as a human shield by one of them is indeed true.

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Offline Blackstar

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2011, 10:44:56 am »
Both me and my bro feel the same way about this. I happy that he his dead but I slightly disturbed with myself and our society that we are so happy that he is dead. Don't get he wrong he deserved it..... but is it ever right to celebrate someone's death. He did have a family

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Offline @random

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2011, 11:25:20 am »
^^ Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that killing them is wrong per se. That's up to everyone's individual conscience to decide, not me.

All I'm saying is that the gloating doesn't win us any friends. Especially not when Muslims constantly hear themselves conflated with the terrorists - it risks creating the perception that the gloating is also directed at them.


^ I'm going to hell for it, but that perverse juxtaposition made me laugh pretty hard - thank you. (^_^)
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Offline Jacob_Blackfeather

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #31 on: May 02, 2011, 11:45:53 am »
I am jumping for joy if you don't remember maybe i should remind you, he sent two planes into the twin towers and then the pentagon, 3000 people were killed, it was 9/11 I am glad he is dead.

Offline Jacob_Blackfeather

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #32 on: May 02, 2011, 12:13:46 pm »
Not to mention one plane hurtled into the earth killing the most brave people. Flight 93, they were true heroes.

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #33 on: May 02, 2011, 12:32:08 pm »
I am jumping for joy if you don't remember maybe i should remind you, he sent two planes into the twin towers and then the pentagon, 3000 people were killed, it was 9/11 I am glad he is dead.

You don't say? Thank you for reminding me - it's not like when it happened I was living and working a few miles away, took supplies to the eerily-empty shelters, lost people I knew, hardly knew anyone who hadn't lost someone, or anything like that. :-X

Feel whatever you want to; it's your right. But your assumptions about me are grossly unwarranted, as is your perceived apprehension of this subject.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2011, 12:36:21 pm by randompvg »
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Offline Jacob_Blackfeather

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #34 on: May 02, 2011, 12:33:03 pm »
I am not just telling you I am telling everyone, a lot of people have forgotten, I am trying to get them to remember.

Offline @random

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #35 on: May 02, 2011, 12:43:18 pm »
I am not just telling you I am telling everyone, a lot of people have forgotten, I am trying to get them to remember.

I'm sure they all appreciate your efforts.
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Offline Jacob_Blackfeather

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #36 on: May 02, 2011, 12:44:15 pm »
I don't know it's mostly my oppion and I know people dislike that fact that I am happy he is dead.

Offline superjaz

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #37 on: May 02, 2011, 12:47:29 pm »
Its awesome that a terrorist will not be able to hurt anyone ever again.
In a way its too bad that they were unable to capture him alive because I am sure there are victims who would have liked to have their say in court, or a chance to gain some info.  No saying if he would have talked, but you never know, esp since from the sound of the compound, he wasn't used to "roughing it".
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Offline TurboSaiyanJason

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #38 on: May 02, 2011, 01:29:55 pm »
Its awesome that a terrorist will not be able to hurt anyone ever again.
In a way its too bad that they were unable to capture him alive because I am sure there are victims who would have liked to have their say in court, or a chance to gain some info.  No saying if he would have talked, but you never know, esp since from the sound of the compound, he wasn't used to "roughing it".

^ Neither was Sadaam Hussein when they found him in a hole in the dessert.

All I can say is...the 10 year toothache is finally gone. Let's hope that no one's foolish enough to make it grow back. I'm sure on 9/11/2011, the 10th anniversary of "the suckerpunch that shook thew world," there'll be masses with their heads held high for once.
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Offline reppy

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #39 on: May 02, 2011, 02:07:10 pm »
randompvg, I understand what you are saying although I feel that any Muslim that sees Americans cheering the death of bin Laden as being anti-Muslim is most likely someone that has already made up their mind about Americans. It's not like people are cheering the death of Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens) or something.

Osama bin Laden was pretty damn unpopular in the Muslim world.  I imagine there are plenty of Muslims that are extremely happy to find out that Osama bin Laden is dead. Osama bin Laden was a political figure, and not a religious one.  He held no clerical position.  He was rebuked many times for issuing fatwas when had no such authority to do so.  The only safe haven he could find was in the most repressive regimes.

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Offline MiriaRose

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #40 on: May 02, 2011, 05:07:03 pm »
but of course people will debate and rant and scream in the name of whomever seems "preferable", and of course there will be the very ignorant and arrogant people arguing back and forth about nonsense, and although many speak out their whole hearted honest opinion, those will be very much missed and looked over or bashed for being "un-american" or "stupid" or "wtf??? you some terrorist??".
Why is discourse bad? If someone disagrees with you and they have a good reason for it, then why shouldn't they be allowed to say something? I've found that discourse over controversial subjects such as this are very educational.

Btw, debate =/= ranting and screaming. That's an argument. I've had good, educational debates on these forums. None of the insults have happened on here to my knowledge. That's why we're allowed to have these threads, because we try to be civil.

Quote
p.s. i love these kind of discussions, but i don't think this is worth talking about. just like hitler's "death". it's just not news. it's history (oh god not another pun) *end of rant* XD
. . Except Hitler's death happened 66 years ago and the Nazis had basically lost the war at that point anyway. This is news. It happened recently and it's very relevant to current politics.

It's at least more newsworthy than the royal wedding.

I'm pretty darn pleased.

Osama would never reform.  He was a radical follower of Sayyid Qutb.  He more or less believed that any Muslim that did not adhere to a strict interpretation of Islam was in fact "not a Muslim" and could be killed as an apostate.  If he had changed his mind on his interpretation, he would have been killed long before we had a chance to get at him.
I'm not saying he would reform. It was just wishful thinking.

Both me and my bro feel the same way about this. I happy that he his dead but I slightly disturbed with myself and our society that we are so happy that he is dead. Don't get he wrong he deserved it..... but is it ever right to celebrate someone's death. He did have a family

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I freaking love that macro.

All I'm saying is that the gloating doesn't win us any friends. Especially not when Muslims constantly hear themselves conflated with the terrorists - it risks creating the perception that the gloating is also directed at them.
You know the hate Muslims get here in America? It actually really hurts Christians in the Middle East, because the Muslims there assume that they're all like the Christians in America, aka Muslim-haters. So the Christians in the Middle East are discriminated against.

Can you say: Cycle of hate?

I am jumping for joy if you don't remember maybe i should remind you, he sent two planes into the twin towers and then the pentagon, 3000 people were killed, it was 9/11 I am glad he is dead.
So? The invasion of Iraq caused over a million Iraqi civilians to die. The Afghanistan occupation is CONTINUING to kill thousands of Afghani civilians to die. 3,000 lives isn't anything on the scale of what we've done in retaliation.

But still: No one deserves to be killed for anything they've done. Who are you to say who can and can't live?

Not to mention one plane hurtled into the earth killing the most brave people. Flight 93, they were true heroes.
So they were brave for being in a situation that they were forced into? Sorry, I'm not quite sure how they're brave for dying in a plane hijaking. It's tragic, obviously, but how does that make them brave? I doubt any of them would have gone on that plane had they known what was going to happen. They didn't choose to become martyrs.

Its awesome that a terrorist will not be able to hurt anyone ever again.
In a way its too bad that they were unable to capture him alive because I am sure there are victims who would have liked to have their say in court, or a chance to gain some info.  No saying if he would have talked, but you never know, esp since from the sound of the compound, he wasn't used to "roughing it".
tbh I don't think he'd care what they had to say to him. He didn't like us much.

I'm glad they didn't capture him alive, because as I said before, they'd treat him worse than they treat Gitmo prisoners. No one should have to go through that; I don't care if they're Mother Theresa or Joseph Mengele.

Also, if we obtained any info from torture it's highly likely it wouldn't be true.

Its awesome that a terrorist will not be able to hurt anyone ever again.
In a way its too bad that they were unable to capture him alive because I am sure there are victims who would have liked to have their say in court, or a chance to gain some info.  No saying if he would have talked, but you never know, esp since from the sound of the compound, he wasn't used to "roughing it".

^ Neither was Sadaam Hussein when they found him in a hole in the dessert.

All I can say is...the 10 year toothache is finally gone. Let's hope that no one's foolish enough to make it grow back. I'm sure on 9/11/2011, the 10th anniversary of "the suckerpunch that shook thew world," there'll be masses with their heads held high for once.
I'm pretty sure that someone is gonna replace him soon. Al-Qaeda's probably been expecting this for a while.

They don't care whether it's pointless or whether the United States might crush them (considering it's a losing battle on our side, they don't have to worry much). They are willing to die for what they believe in. That's the mentality they have. As randompvg pointed out earlier, he's a martyr now. They'll see bin Laden and want to be like him, to die for his cause.

That's why they blow themselves up. Because that's how devoted they are to what they believe in.

It's like the Vietnam War, really. Ho Chi Min said to the Americans that even though they only killed 1 American soldier for every 9 Vietnamese soldier the Americans killed, they would still win because they were devoted to their cause. And they won.
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Offline soundninja12

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #41 on: May 02, 2011, 05:10:37 pm »
All I have to say:
I think it's a good thing he's dead, but I think it's revolting that people are going about dancing in the street.
Stop celebrating death unless it's in a way that's very Dia De Los Muertos way.
:/
I feel like it's nice that there will be so many averted deaths, but I also feel like it's disheartening to see so many people partying about something so morbid.
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Offline Gryffinclaw Princess

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #42 on: May 02, 2011, 05:25:11 pm »
Personal opinion right here.
So what? He's dead. I thought he had died a long time ago and forgot all about him. I bet you half of America did, too.

Celebrating death? That makes you no better than Osama himself.
He's dead, get over it. Don't go cheering and creating a big deal about it. He shouldn't be remembered or anything. Yeah, he's dead but we have more important matters. He's one flea on the mutt's back that was getting over powered by the rest of them. The bigger problems are more important.
Yeah, he killed a lot of people but that's war. We killed a lot of people, too. Men followed their dreams and their beliefs just like we do and we killed them because they attacked us. No one is in the wrong. We are all on the right side in our own minds. You think Hitler thought he was doing wrong? He thought he was purifying the world and we simply disagreed with him. It's not who is right or wrong, it's who is stronger that will survive. How do you really know God isn't on the side of our enemies? Because you want to believe he is on ours. The truth is we don't know who is right and who is wrong. The only truth we know is that there is no Peace without War and there is no War without Death. It's not something to celebrate. The only people who should be 'happy' about death is those who were directly effected by it.

Call me whatever you want but I can't even tell you the year he bombed us. I don't remember anything. I went through school like a normal kid. I was raised around death and grew up in a military family. We don't want your praise for killing people and it's disgusting to label those we kill when we are no better than they are. Our soldiers are killers and murderers just like Osama and his men. If you talk down about them then you talk down about us as well.

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Offline jaybug

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #43 on: May 02, 2011, 05:35:31 pm »
The US is now in the assassination business. That's gonna suck.

Perhaps this will affect Pakistani politics, in a good way.

Miria, really, how bad are the prisoners treated in Gitmo? Head and shoulders better than Daniel Pearl was treated.

My boss said WE didn't take Osama prisoner, as Americans the world over would be subject to kidnappings and worse until he was released.

This doesn't bring anyone back whom we lost 9/11.
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Offline superjaz

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #44 on: May 02, 2011, 05:46:47 pm »
Off subject here but bear with me for a sec

We anime/video game fans often get treated like little kids when people hear that we watch cartoons.

Yet here we are having a discussion/debate on this subject, its a bit heated but we are being civil with each other (per forum conduct), and I think we can agree we all have different experiences that affect our view on the subject, and we are entitled to them.

Yeah we are the "kids".

 
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Offline MiriaRose

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #45 on: May 02, 2011, 06:01:45 pm »
The US is now in the assassination business. That's gonna suck.

Perhaps this will affect Pakistani politics, in a good way.

Miria, really, how bad are the prisoners treated in Gitmo? Head and shoulders better than Daniel Pearl was treated.

My boss said WE didn't take Osama prisoner, as Americans the world over would be subject to kidnappings and worse until he was released.

This doesn't bring anyone back whom we lost 9/11.
The US has been in the assassination business for as long as the Statue of Liberty can remember.

I'd argue being captured and killed after nine days is far better than being tortured and abused for several years, but that isn't the point. Violence doesn't solve for violence, death does not solve for death, and dehumanization does not solve for dehumanization.

As you said, bin Laden's death won't bring anyone back. Not Pearl or the 9/11 victims or American soldiers.

Off subject here but bear with me for a sec

We anime/video game fans often get treated like little kids when people hear that we watch cartoons.

Yet here we are having a discussion/debate on this subject, its a bit heated but we are being civil with each other (per forum conduct), and I think we can agree we all have different experiences that affect our view on the subject, and we are entitled to them.

Yeah we are the "kids".

 
Haha, I agree so much. I mentioned in another thread that when some other teens and I went to protest a tea party rally, the tea partiers assumed because we're teenagers we don't know what we're talking about and just listen to what our parents/teachers tell us. It's an extreme example, but I've noticed a lot of adults have this mentality even if they're not as vocal about it- That teens don't know nothin', that our impressionable young minds have been brainwashed and that they, the jaded and worldly adult, must show us the light!

Sometimes, the children act like adults and the adults act like children.
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Offline luvan1me

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #46 on: May 02, 2011, 06:03:42 pm »
Personal opinion right here.
So what? He's dead. I thought he had died a long time ago and forgot all about him. I bet you half of America did, too.

Celebrating death? That makes you no better than Osama himself.
He's dead, get over it. Don't go cheering and creating a big deal about it. He shouldn't be remembered or anything. Yeah, he's dead but we have more important matters. He's one flea on the mutt's back that was getting over powered by the rest of them. The bigger problems are more important.
Yeah, he killed a lot of people but that's war. We killed a lot of people, too. Men followed their dreams and their beliefs just like we do and we killed them because they attacked us. No one is in the wrong. We are all on the right side in our own minds. You think Hitler thought he was doing wrong? He thought he was purifying the world and we simply disagreed with him. It's not who is right or wrong, it's who is stronger that will survive. How do you really know God isn't on the side of our enemies? Because you want to believe he is on ours. The truth is we don't know who is right and who is wrong. The only truth we know is that there is no Peace without War and there is no War without Death. It's not something to celebrate. The only people who should be 'happy' about death is those who were directly effected by it.

Call me whatever you want but I can't even tell you the year he bombed us. I don't remember anything. I went through school like a normal kid. I was raised around death and grew up in a military family. We don't want your praise for killing people and it's disgusting to label those we kill when we are no better than they are. Our soldiers are killers and murderers just like Osama and his men. If you talk down about them then you talk down about us as well.

my point exactly <3 that's why i don't bother talking about this kinda stuff and i move on -w-

Offline jaybug

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #47 on: May 02, 2011, 06:09:46 pm »
Quote
The US has been in the assassination business for as long as the Statue of Liberty can remember.

No, it has not. It is actually against federal law to assassinate "foreign leaders" And Saddam was killed by Iraqis, not US. I think we would have held onto him for longer to at least ask where his WMD went. ( I think Syria and Libya)

FYI, most adults are completely disengaged. They may be full of opinions, but they are empty. They are just brainwashed. People who actually GO to a tea party rally, are some of the ones who are engaged. Now we have some on the left, and some on the right instead of on the left only. And being older adults, they may not have participated in any rallies of any sort their entire adult lives. Unlike the 60s where it was 18-22 year olds taking over universities, such as Oregon and Berkeley.

Also, I probably look at most people as if they are morons. Or about to kill them, not sure, as I don't see myself except when near mirrors.

But then I was one of those way too smart kids way back when too.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2011, 06:17:16 pm by jaybug »
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Offline MiriaRose

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #48 on: May 02, 2011, 06:48:34 pm »
Quote
The US has been in the assassination business for as long as the Statue of Liberty can remember.

No, it has not. It is actually against federal law to assassinate "foreign leaders" And Saddam was killed by Iraqis, not US. I think we would have held onto him for longer to at least ask where his WMD went. ( I think Syria and Libya)
Doesn't mean we didn't do it covertly. See South/Central America. And the Middle East. We've been covertly setting up puppet governments since at least the early 1900s.

Castro has been on our hit list since the missile crisis, iirc, maybe before.

Also, the WMDs were a bs excuse. Bush wanted to invade Iraq the day he got into office.

Quote
FYI, most adults are completely disengaged. They may be full of opinions, but they are empty. They are just brainwashed. People who actually GO to a tea party rally, are some of the ones who are engaged. Now we have some on the left, and some on the right instead of on the left only. And being older adults, they may not have participated in any rallies of any sort their entire adult lives. Unlike the 60s where it was 18-22 year olds taking over universities, such as Oregon and Berkeley.

Also, I probably look at most people as if they are morons. Or about to kill them, not sure, as I don't see myself except when near mirrors.

But then I was one of those way too smart kids way back when too.
I already know they're disengaged. It doesn't mean that they don't have that elitist attitude that they know more than us because they're older.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2011, 07:04:52 pm by MiriaRose »
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead!
« Reply #49 on: May 02, 2011, 07:35:05 pm »
Setting up puppet governments is not assassination. The Samozas of Nicaragua were from Ohio. And guess what, it was always the Democrats who set these things up. Samoza, 1930s. Shah if Iran, 60s. Philippines, same same.

Nixon went to China.

Castro is not on a hit list, he's on our hit list with an "S" in front of hit.

Panama was once the 4th province of Columbia. Just because they did nothing with it due to the Darien jungle at the border with the rest of Columbia makes no never mind. That was done to build the canal, without paying a bunch of greedy despots for the rights, or so T.R. reasoned, see Path Between the Seas by David McCullough, great book.

Did we kill Hitler? If we would have killed anyone, it would have been him.
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