Author Topic: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,  (Read 9291 times)

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Offline Classy Viking

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I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« on: October 04, 2010, 05:17:18 pm »
Hey people out there on the Internet.

Stop trying to say Anime is any better than other animation form anywhere else.
Cause it's not. That's not the saying it's any worse.

The quality of a cartoon (Anime or otherwise), be it in the actual animation, story, characters, design, sound, music, what have you, is not dependent on it's country of origin. It is dependent on the amount of effort/budget/style put into from a production stand point.

In other words: Regardless of it's Origin all animation is the same. In no way is any form superior or inferior to one another.

[Edit by JeffT, administrator: Removed inappropriate language]
« Last Edit: October 05, 2010, 02:16:34 am by JeffT »
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Offline MiriaRose

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2010, 05:18:28 pm »
-claps-
"Would you kindly. ."

Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2010, 06:00:50 pm »
As a whole, anime is the best form of animation with the exception of CGI.  This isn't because it's from Japan.  Granted, the Japanese to make some amazing cartoons, but they do make their floppers, too.  However, it's their hits that make the grade; we don't have that many greats compared to them, especially now-a-days.
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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2010, 06:09:51 pm »
I disagree with you, so, so, so much. Please give some examples, even the most well animated of anime will have clunky stiff moments whereas American cartoons opt for simpler design for much more fluid animation.

Take your favorite Disney and Ghibli film- which has the superior animation?

Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2010, 06:18:57 pm »
I'm talking about series, not movies.  I don't usually watch anime movies too much.  Studio Ghibli movies often bore me, such as Howl's Moving Castle or Princess Mononoke.  There are some good ones out there, like Spirited Away and Grave of the Fireflies, but I'm not really into anime movies.

As for Disney movies, when not including the CGI's that they made with PIXAR, they very rarely made movies out of shear creativity.  I think The Lion King was the last one they did that was an original idea (and the first full-length featured animation film that wasn't based off of another story).
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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2010, 06:30:46 pm »
In this argument creativity and premise are irrelevant- we are talking about animation quality.

Name an anime that you think has better animation than the best of what America's done. Nothing wrong with liking anime more than American cartoons, but to say that anime has better animation is absurd.

Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2010, 06:43:49 pm »
No, the thread is about the animations overall.  In terms of the quality of the artwork itself, I'd say the best examples are about even.
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Offline DemonSpawn

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2010, 06:46:45 pm »
The Lion King was actually based off Shakespeare's Hamlet and the Lion King II was Romeo and Juliet. :D
I miss 2010.

oslapedo

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2010, 06:50:57 pm »
No, the thread is about the animations overall.  In terms of the quality of the artwork itself, I'd say the best examples are about even.

You are full of ****, animation and artwork are two completely different things.

Saying that anime is better than American animation is like saying modern english is better than old english or latin.

Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2010, 07:00:30 pm »
The Lion King was actually based off Shakespeare's Hamlet and the Lion King II was Romeo and Juliet. :D

You sure about that?  I read that it was an original idea... I suppose I could be remembering this wrong; this was several years ago that I read this.

No, the thread is about the animations overall.  In terms of the quality of the artwork itself, I'd say the best examples are about even.

You are full of ****, animation and artwork are two completely different things.

Saying that anime is better than American animation is like saying modern english is better than old english or latin.

Look, osla, I like you, so I'm going to respectfully ask that you read what I'm saying before you question my intellect.  Did I ever say that they were the same thing?  No, I didn't.  What I did say, or at least imply, was that the quality of artwork is a factor of animation, just like plotlines, just like acting; it's part of the puzzle.
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Offline DemonSpawn

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2010, 07:06:23 pm »
From lionking.org:

"There is no doubt that today's entertainment has lost most of its touch with the more classical influences of its predecessors. However, in mid-1994, Walt Disney Pictures released what could arguably be the best animated feature of all time in The Lion King. With a moral base unlike most of the movies released at the time, TLK placed a children's facade on a very serious story of responsibility and revenge. However, this theme is one of the oldest in history, and it is not the least apparent in one of the oldest works of literature by The Bard himself, William Shakespeare. The work that Disney's TLK parallels is none other than Hamlet: Prince of Denmark, and the film shadows this work so closely, that parallels between the main characters themselves are wildly apparent."

"Shakespeare's works continue to be performed on stage. Recently
though, two of his most famous works, Hamlet and Romeo and Juliet have
appeared in Disney movies under the titles of The Lion King and The Lion
King II: Simba's Pride."
« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 07:07:53 pm by DemonSpawn »
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Offline Darknight2433

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2010, 07:15:53 pm »
I, from a standpoint that likes both anime and just regular animation, think that more movies made in the States have more of a heart then anything I've seen labeled Anime. I love Gurren Lagann, Ghost in the Shell, FMA, Mushishi, FLCL, and so many more, yet I stand to say my favorite shows and movies are American made.

Offline hotarukk13

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2010, 07:24:08 pm »
I love both anime and american animation as much as I love my good old fluffy dog :3

But I have to say that anime isn't always grand or amazing. There were some moments that animation had its ups and downs.

Like the old fashion american shows such as scooby doo or the flinstones. They're still making shows of those (i'm not sure about flinstones) since it was created back in the 1900's.

Some anime shows like to go overboard with the series, like the popular shows of naruto, bleach and one piece. Then there are some shows which I honestly have trouble following the story, or just don't make sense to me. (I can't remember most one them, but one was princess tutu. I still have trouble following it's storyline)
It's not like I hate anime, I'm just saying they can have their ups and downs with the viewers eyes.

P.S. I actually don't remember, but wasn't Avatar The Last Airbender drawing by an American Cartoon Artist?

Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2010, 07:42:39 pm »
^ Yes, yes it is American.
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Offline Saki-the-cat

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2010, 08:02:08 pm »
I'm just going to say this. In my opinion, i'd much rather watch an anime than an American made cartoon.
I figure mostly because cartoons now days just don't have that same magic they did as a younger kid and that makes sence because most cartoons are made for people ages 5 to, well, lets say 12. Also i must add that, if i was 5 years old or so and i tried to watch an anime that i watch now, i wouldn't get it at all (well, besides Pokemon, but that was intended for younger kids as well).
So i'm thinking love in anime and love in cartoons really has to do with age so all i'm really trying to say here is,
I love a good anime.
I love a good American cartoon.
I hate a bad anime.
I hate a bad American cartoon.
They both have their ups and downs.
So get over it and watch whatever you're happy with.

Offline ~boogiepop~

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2010, 08:04:44 pm »
As an animation student, I like all animation.

But in my opinion the country with the superior animation is...
France

I prefer it because it's always weird and they try a lot of new stuff though.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 08:05:54 pm by ~boogiepop~ »
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Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2010, 08:07:02 pm »
^ The only thing French I've ever seen is Wakfu, which was pretty good in the animation department, but the plot kind of bored me.  I kept watching it just because of the jokes; those were well done.  (That, and it was something that my anime club showed for a while).  Do you have any recommendations for other French cartoons?
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Offline ~boogiepop~

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2010, 08:13:04 pm »
Mostly movies and shorts, I haven't seen many series besides Wakfu buuuuuuuuut...
Les Triplettes de Belleville
Peur(s) du noir
Persepolis
The Secret of Kells
Ughhh, I know a bunch of shorts too but I can't remember the names of freaking anything. I'll get back to you on more. I have like, a vevo account full of french shorts bookmarked. TOO MANY FOREIGN NAMES

I also just kinda generalize everything that is like FRENCH AND *BLANK* as just French.
Also if you feel like giving Wakfu another chance you should. The end is so freaking boss.

Also in my opinion American comics>Japanese comics, almost always.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 08:18:41 pm by ~boogiepop~ »
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Offline Classy Viking

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2010, 08:21:30 pm »
Niks, The Secret of the Kells, is Irish.

And Ireland has this great budding animation industry.
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Offline Man of the Public

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2010, 08:22:22 pm »
The quality of the art is not directly interlinked with the quality of animation. Take cartoons by John Kricfalusi (creator of Ren & Stimpy and other cartoons) his artwood lacks any kind of real anatomy or in my opinion quality to them but his animation, how fluid it is, how naturally one action becomes another is superb.
For example look at this clip of Ren and Stimpy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXuV2ZMfu_I

Offline jaybug

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2010, 08:47:28 pm »
Ren and Stimpy was good for the sick humor. It's lo-og, lo-og it's big it's heavy it's wood. It's lo-og it's better than bad, it's good.

That's my ice cream bar!

Aren't almost everyone's cels painted in South Korea now, Japan and America?

To expect people in an anime forum to say American cartoons are best, rather defeats the purpose of the forum don't it?
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Offline ~boogiepop~

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2010, 08:49:34 pm »
Niks, The Secret of the Kells, is Irish.

And Ireland has this great budding animation industry.

It is an Irish-French-Belgium film. So it falls into my French category. My teachers refer to more of the things the french did in it which is why '3'

Also you all are friggin' weeaboos. This is what shaped the world of animation, if you don't agree you are an idiot:
GOD LIKE ANIMATION AT ITS BEST
« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 08:54:24 pm by ~boogiepop~ »
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Offline meep

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2010, 09:02:36 pm »
Niks, The Secret of the Kells, is Irish.

And Ireland has this great budding animation industry.

It is an Irish-French-Belgium film. So it falls into my French category. My teachers refer to more of the things the french did in it which is why '3'

Also you all are friggin' weeaboos. This is what shaped the world of animation, if you don't agree you are an idiot:
GOD LIKE ANIMATION AT ITS BEST
COME ON IT'S TIME TO PARTY WITH GARFIELD AND FRIENDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And yes Classy Viking theres tons of great animation outside of Japan. :3
« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 09:05:47 pm by meep »


Offline Saki-the-cat

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2010, 09:10:25 pm »
Oh sweet baby Jesus! I friggen love Garfield!

Offline Animeman73

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2010, 09:14:26 pm »
I actually agree with Classy Viking in some aspects. There is anime out there that has as the Happy Days saying goes "Jumped the Shark"

And there's some good quality American Animation.

It depends on how and if they're able to get the right mix of style and substance. It's a tricky combo but it can be done.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2010, 06:51:21 pm by Animeman73 »
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Offline Classy Viking

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2010, 09:32:40 pm »
In other words: Regardless of it's Origin all animation is the same. In no way is any form superior or inferior to one another.

[Edit by JeffT, administrator: Removed inappropriate language]
« Last Edit: October 05, 2010, 04:30:33 pm by JeffT »
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Offline superjaz

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2010, 09:59:11 pm »
Lion King was the last one they did that was an original idea (and the first full-length featured animation film that wasn't based off of another story).

....yes... original.....

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Offline makichan

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2010, 10:46:28 pm »
I like all kinds of animation. The beauty of it is that I'm not restricted to any one type :>
The costumes that I'm really excited to make are usually American based though. Also, they're the costumes that I enjoy seeing at conventions because they're not as common. That being said, someone needs to cosplay Earthworm Jim or Freakazoid, PLEASE. PRETTY PRETTY PLEASE.
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Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2010, 07:05:36 am »
Mostly movies and shorts, I haven't seen many series besides Wakfu buuuuuuuuut...
Les Triplettes de Belleville
Peur(s) du noir
Persepolis
The Secret of Kells
Ughhh, I know a bunch of shorts too but I can't remember the names of freaking anything. I'll get back to you on more. I have like, a vevo account full of french shorts bookmarked. TOO MANY FOREIGN NAMES

I also just kinda generalize everything that is like FRENCH AND *BLANK* as just French.
Also if you feel like giving Wakfu another chance you should. The end is so freaking boss.

Also in my opinion American comics>Japanese comics, almost always.

Thanks for the help, boogie!  (As for the ending, when my club showed it, I had to go to work, so I wasn't able to see it).
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Offline reppy

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2010, 10:51:13 am »
I don't like how there isn't really much in the way of high caliber American animation for adults.  Can anyone think of recent titles?  Stuff like the Heavy Metal movies, The Wizard, Fritz the Cat (adults only! omg!) come to mind but those are all really old.

Adult Swim, which caters its animation towards adult audiences, doesn't really try to go outside of the cartoon comedy genre.  Or maybe they have and I have missed it.  I don't really watch too much Adult Swim. ^^

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Offline MiriaRose

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #30 on: October 05, 2010, 04:11:56 pm »
Lion King was the last one they did that was an original idea (and the first full-length featured animation film that wasn't based off of another story).

....yes... original.....

http://www.kimbawlion.com/rant2.htm

Tezuka was heavily influenced by Disney, though. It works both ways.
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Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2010, 05:43:55 pm »
Adult Swim, which caters its animation towards adult audiences, doesn't really try to go outside of the cartoon comedy genre.  Or maybe they have and I have missed it.  I don't really watch too much Adult Swim. ^^

More and more, Adult Swim has been bringing in live action stuff, such as Children's Hospital and Tim & Eric.  (Personally, I think both shows suck and must have been written with the intent of entertaining those who were drunk or on something).  They do still have various cartoons, too, like Metalocalypse and Aqua Teen Hunger Force.
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Offline Kimiski

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #32 on: October 07, 2010, 09:20:49 am »
Sorry, I'm one who agrees anime is one of the best out there
The Japanese just seem to have a way with animation I have not found anywhere else.... maybe back in the old days when once upon a time Disney made good movies for something besides a profit, but now... I dwelve into the world of beautiful Japanese animation.  :D


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Offline Classy Viking

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #33 on: October 07, 2010, 09:57:25 am »
>I'm one who agrees anime is one of the best out there
Implying that someone was arguing that point.

>The Japanese just seem to have a way with animation
Implying that anime isn't just limited animation.

>I have not found anywhere else
Implying that you have even looked elsewhere, including the above mentioned, European animation industry.

>Disney made good movies for something besides a profit
Implying that all animation studios aren't just looking for a profit. Since it is an industry after all.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2010, 09:59:14 am by Classy Viking »
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Offline Rathany

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #34 on: October 07, 2010, 11:26:56 am »
>I'm one who agrees anime is one of the best out there
Implying that someone was arguing that point.

>The Japanese just seem to have a way with animation
Implying that anime isn't just limited animation.

>I have not found anywhere else
Implying that you have even looked elsewhere, including the above mentioned, European animation industry.

>Disney made good movies for something besides a profit
Implying that all animation studios aren't just looking for a profit. Since it is an industry after all.

Woah ... Umm...  You are are also making implications about her here and jumping to conclusions.   If the idea that there is something unique about anime wasn't a fairly widely held one, we would not have a convention ;)   

While it one day may prove false, Studio Ghibli is often seen as a way for Miyazaki to make what he wants because we wants to make it, and not for pure profit. 
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Offline Classy Viking

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #35 on: October 07, 2010, 12:32:22 pm »
@Rath
I wasn't implying that Japanimation isn't unique, but simply stating that it is a form of Limited Animation, very few animes are fully animated, and the animation processes used to create are all limited.

to quote wiki:
Quote
Anime is often considered a form of limited animation. That means that stylistically, even in bigger productions the conventions of limited animation are used to fool the eye into thinking there is more movement than there is.[3] Many of the techniques used are comprised with cost-cutting measures while working under a set budget.

Also it seems you are under the implication that Studio Ghibi films are only directed by Miyazaki, which is indeed false. While the vast majority of English releases are directed by him, out of the studio's productions of film only he has only directed nine of the twenty films made/planned. This is not including the shorts. Studio Ghibi is known for it's commerical work.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2010, 12:48:47 pm by Classy Viking »
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Offline Man of the Public

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #36 on: October 07, 2010, 12:47:31 pm »
While it one day may prove false, Studio Ghibli is often seen as a way for Miyazaki to make what he wants because we wants to make it, and not for pure profit. 
Yes but at the same even Miyazaki knows that his films must make a profit or he cant afford to make what he wants.
Also pretty much what my brother said.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2010, 12:52:22 pm by Man of the Public »

Offline Rathany

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #37 on: October 07, 2010, 01:53:27 pm »
@Rath
I wasn't implying that Japanimation isn't unique, but simply stating that it is a form of Limited Animation, very few animes are fully animated, and the animation processes used to create are all limited.

to quote wiki:
Quote
Anime is often considered a form of limited animation. That means that stylistically, even in bigger productions the conventions of limited animation are used to fool the eye into thinking there is more movement than there is.[3] Many of the techniques used are comprised with cost-cutting measures while working under a set budget.

Also it seems you are under the implication that Studio Ghibi films are only directed by Miyazaki, which is indeed false. While the vast majority of English releases are directed by him, out of the studio's productions of film only he has only directed nine of the twenty films made/planned. This is not including the shorts. Studio Ghibi is known for it's commerical work.

You seem to have missed my point.  I think that the way you are stating things with 'Implying that' can be taken as very abrasive and more superior than conversational.  This is a place to hang out and have fun :)  Please let people clarify what they mean for themselves, not tell them what they just said. 

Yes, there is more to Ghibli than just Miyazaki and he likely has business sense, but you said "Implying that all animation studios aren't just looking for a profit" which seems to say that they have no other motivation.  Studio Ghibli was co-founded by Miyazaki. 

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Offline @random

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #38 on: October 07, 2010, 03:15:39 pm »
Just my 2 cents, but: Aren't we here because we love anime, regardless of whether we love it more or less than other art forms? It seems kinda sad to me to think about disparaging others because we disagree about the degree to which we love it.

If you think someone's disparaging you for liking other art forms, then that's something they need to answer for. It doesn't make disparaging them back based on that perception any better than it did when you felt they were disparaging you.

To use a personal example: I'd pretty much rather watch anime than almost anything on American TV, but I'm not going to say people who watch American TV are dumb or wrong - they just have different tastes than I do. If someone misunderstands that sentiment and starts telling me that I'm an elitist misguided jerk because American TV is more mature and anime is just perverted kids' shows, am I likely to be suaded by their eloquence and change my opinion?  :-\
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Offline Classy Viking

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #39 on: October 07, 2010, 03:47:21 pm »
The main part of my argument isn't whether or not certain forms of animation are superior, it's the quite the opposite. My point is that all forms of animation are equal in terms quality and artistic merit, regardless of where it is produced. Personal preference is just that, and, I make no claims that I can change what people prefer. I only wish to to disprove the silly notion that Anime is any different, for better or worse, than other animations produced in any other part of the world.
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Offline @random

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #40 on: October 07, 2010, 03:59:27 pm »
The main part of my argument isn't whether or not certain forms of animation are superior, it's the quite the opposite. My point is that all forms of animation are equal in terms quality and artistic merit, regardless of where it is produced. Personal preference is just that, and, I make no claims that I can change what people prefer. I only wish to to disprove the silly notion that Anime is any different, for better or worse, than other animations produced in any other part of the world.

Could you clarify what the difference is between changing people's perceptions and proving them wrong? :-\  I think that might go a long way toward understanding what you're trying to do here.

If someone tells you that you're wrong for thinking it's not "superior" versus simply saying "I like it better", then they're wrong for disparaging your opinion. But when you call other people "silly" for not sharing your opinion, you're not really helping your case.

I do understand the basis for saying people shouldn't claim anime is inherently superior. As I said above, I'd rather watch it than almost any American TV program, and even I would say that's untrue by virtue of the fact that some anime is truly awful and some American TV is brilliant. But I don't understand the basis for saying it's "[not] any different."
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Offline Wuntvor

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #41 on: October 07, 2010, 06:49:51 pm »
I don't know if  want to get into this or not.   :-\

I have always been a fan of animation.  Anyone who knows me, knows that I watch more animated than live action TV.  I have also become more and more dissatisfied with the shows being played in the US.  Not because of quality of the animation, but because of the content.  I suppose it is because of my age, in some cases, and because of my sense of humor in others.  I don't like most of the shows playing on Cartoon Network Adult Swim.  In fact I often wonder how many of them ever got a green light to be put on TV at all.  I know there are fans of these shows.  I am not one of them.  Of course Japan has it's own series of shows that cater to the same audience.  The new show Panty & Stocking with Garterbelt is a good example.  There are a lot of Japanese anime that fall into the questionable subject matter category in the current line-up.  MM!, and Yosuga no Sora being two that come to mind.  I believe this all has to do more with why I like or watch the anime than the visual quality of it.

I think the best example of Japanese quality in animation for a TV series is Seirei no Moribito.  I am amazed at the quality of the animation in this show.  The attention to detail, the lighting and shading, the motion in the fight scenes.  Everything is motion picture quality.  I think the closest American analogy is the already mentioned The Last Airbender (look for the sequel The Legend of Korra on Nickelodeon soon).

I grew up watching cartoons in the 70's.  You want to talk about choppy and crappy animation look at anything produced then.  That goes for both American and Japanese animation.  At the time I suppose you could say that Disney had the edge on quality as the best studio out there.  Even Disney had some competition though.  Ralph Bakshi put out some pretty controversial animations during the 70's and 80's, and even early 90's.  And Nelvana up in Canada put out quite a few cartoons and movies that were popular in the US.  Ever hear of the Care Bears, Strawberry Shortcake, or Inspector Gadget?  They also did the cult classic animated feature Rock & Rule  Another name in the industry is Don Bluth.  In the early 80's he left Disney with a lot of other Disney animators who felt that the new Disney movie TRON and the whole 3D CG revolution were not what they joined Disney to do.  They all left anf did their own film. It was called The Secret of N.I.M.H.  They paid for it with the proceeds they made from two laser disc games they produced called Dragons Lair and Space Ace.  This was followed shortly with An American Tail and Land Before Time  I still feel that Bluth and his crew are the ones responsible for giving Disney the kick in the butt they needed to put out all of the films they did in the 80's and 90's.

Studio Ghibli is still the top producer of 2D theatrical releases, in my opinion.  I am waiting to see The Borrower Arrietty.  I will compare it with Tangled, the latest release from Disney.  Maybe I should use The Princes and the Frog instead since it is 2D and Tangled looks like they are going to go 3D with all of it.  From the little bit I have seen on the trailer, I already think Arrietty will win, hands down.

Another French animation to add is Ōban Star-Racers by Sav! the World Productions.  I would also recommend Asterix and Obelix  Also many of the Jetix shows on Disney are from Europe, either France or Italy.  Both W.I.T.C.H. and Winx Club being good examples.  A good animated feature to look up some time is Allegro non Troppo  It is a combination of live action and animation and sort of makes fun of Disneys Fantasia.

Anyway, this is my two cents.  Feel free to reply however you want.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2010, 01:31:59 am by Wuntvor »
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Offline Man of the Public

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #42 on: October 07, 2010, 07:18:03 pm »
As my brother tries to point out, The point of the thread is stating that the country of Origin has no role in the overall quality of the animation and story.

Anime/Japanimation = American Animation= European Animation, Where the product was animated has no impact on the quality of it. There's terrible anime and terrible American animation, I'm sure there's terrible European animation too, but I haven't seen it. Just as there's mind blowingly awesome shows from Japan/Europe/America. There's shows with terrible animation but great writing in every country. The reasons of why the shows are these things are the people who work on them not the countries of origin.

Offline @random

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #43 on: October 08, 2010, 03:27:44 am »
I have always been a fan of animation.  Anyone who knows me, knows that I watch more animated than live action TV.  I have also become more and more dissatisfied with the shows being played in the US.  Not because of quality of the animation, but because of the content.  I suppose it is because of my age, in some cases, and because of my sense of humor in others.  I don't like most of the shows playing on Cartoon Network Adult Swim.  In fact I often wonder how many of them ever got a green light to be put on TV at all.  I know there are fans of these shows.  I am not one of them.  Of course Japan has it's own series of shows that cater to the same audience.  The new show Panty & Stocking with Garterbelt is a good example.  There are a lot of Japanese anime that fall into the questionable subject matter category in the current line-up.  MM!, and Yosuga no Sora being two that come to mind.  I believe this all has to do more with why I like or watch the anime than the visual quality of it.

I think the best example of Japanese quality in animation for a TV series is Seirei no Moribito.  I am amazed at the quality of the animation in this show.  The attention to detail, the lighting and shading, the motion in the fight scenes.  Everything is motion picture quality.  I think the closest American analogy is the already mentioned The Last Airbender (look for the sequel The Legend of Korra on Nickelodeon soon).

I grew up watching cartoons in the 70's.  You want to talk about choppy and crappy animation look at anything produced then.  That goes for both American and Japanese animation.  At the time I suppose you could say that Disney had the edge on quality as the best studio out there.  Even Disney had some competition though.
Thank you for putting my own exact feelings into words much more eloquently, on virtually all of the above. (^_^) And thank you for the extra perspectives. A good bit of the rest of your post was interesting history or news, and/or different ways to look at things I was familiar with.

One thing, though... when you compare The Last Airbender's animation quality to Moribito: I only saw the first few episodes of TLA, but those few left me feeling that the two weren't in the same league. (Heck, very little animation from any country is in the same league as Moribito.) Did they step up the animation quality as the series went along, or is it just a matter of different opinions?

As my brother tries to point out, The point of the thread is stating that the country of Origin has no role in the overall quality of the animation and story.

Anime/Japanimation = American Animation= European Animation, Where the product was animated has no impact on the quality of it. There's terrible anime and terrible American animation, I'm sure there's terrible European animation too, but I haven't seen it. Just as there's mind blowingly awesome shows from Japan/Europe/America. There's shows with terrible animation but great writing in every country. The reasons of why the shows are these things are the people who work on them not the countries of origin.
As I've said, it's absolutely true to say that anime is not inherently superior - but I don't understand what purpose it serves to be so vehement in "proving" that. It's a truism that someone either accepts, or they don't. (We may disagree about whether a preponderance of anime is better, but we don't disagree at all about whether all anime is automatically better.)

And as it was originally stated, the purpose of the thread was to correct those who were vehemently shoving their opinions in your respective faces. At some point, doesn't someone have to step down the rhetoric?
« Last Edit: October 08, 2010, 03:36:00 am by randompvg »
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Offline Kimiski

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #44 on: October 08, 2010, 07:42:15 pm »
>I'm one who agrees anime is one of the best out there
Implying that someone was arguing that point.

>The Japanese just seem to have a way with animation
Implying that anime isn't just limited animation.

>I have not found anywhere else
Implying that you have even looked elsewhere, including the above mentioned, European animation industry.

>Disney made good movies for something besides a profit
Implying that all animation studios aren't just looking for a profit. Since it is an industry after all.

Woah ... Umm...  You are are also making implications about her here and jumping to conclusions.   If the idea that there is something unique about anime wasn't a fairly widely held one, we would not have a convention ;)  

While it one day may prove false, Studio Ghibli is often seen as a way for Miyazaki to make what he wants because we wants to make it, and not for pure profit.  

Thank you Rathany~

There IS a difference of making something for PURE profit and not. And excuse me but, how can you say I have not looked elsewhere? You do not even know me. I have even taken many video production and film education classes where we studied each countries style, and the history of their film making and animations. Sorry, it's my opinion, you do not have to agree with, I do find Japanese animation, anime, to be one of not the most beautiful form of animation and story telling- to me.

I also agree with randompvg's previous statements- what is the difference between that superiority and different opinions? Everyone does animation differently- just like movies, TV shows, because they are influenced by their culture and what they know- the way the Japanese do their animation- how they make it, tell a story, I find more enchanting then any other countries animation I have seen. That is simply my opinion- and cannot be changed. All of us here love anime to some degree, as these are forums for an Anime Convention, what does it matter to the degree that we like it?
« Last Edit: October 08, 2010, 07:48:07 pm by kimiski »


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Offline Animeman73

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Re: I am Really tired of seeing people think this way,
« Reply #45 on: October 20, 2010, 01:20:44 pm »
You know what I'm tired of. People who think American storytelling and Japanese animation can't be combioned!

Let me tell all of you a story. Once upon a time there was a down on it's motorcycle company. They decided to borrow some construction techniques from the japanese. And you know what happened? THEY BULIT A BETTER MOTORCYCLE!!!! That company is Harley-Davidson.

I believe that American storytelling and Japanese animaton can be combined. If it's just done just right a good American written story combined with beautiful Japanese animation and BANG what you have is epic magic!
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