Author Topic: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks  (Read 13776 times)

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Offline DancingTofu

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I don't play games to have fun.  I play games to compete.  I compete because I enjoy competition.

I enjoy playing games when I can do so competitively, so the purpose is not lost, but I take games seriously.  EVERY GAME I PLAY.

I think that a lot of people here don't understand that fact about us hardcore gamers.  Being a hardcore gamer doesn't mean you play every game ever, or that you spend all your money on video games and play them non-stop.  It means you can take the most pointless, trivial game (let's take Apples to Apples for example), and play it with the sole intent of winning.  It's not about making people laugh or being social, it's about winning.  That's the entirety of the game.

However, that doesn't necessarily characterize us out of game.  While I play EVERY game seriously, I play a number of games WELL.  When I encounter competition in these games, I do everything in my power to kill it, and play mean.  In the game, the enemy becomes my enemy, and that's all I care about in terms of the game.  That's what makes hardcore what it is: hardcore means that the core element of one's gaming is harsh, callous, and unforgiving.  A lot of pro* and recreational gamers, however, interpret those actions as a reflection of character.  My friends and I have been called bad sports, cheaters, or killjoys for doing everything it takes to win.  I disagree with those labels absolutely.  We're not playing to be mean, or to kill your fun.  We're playing to win.  

On the other hand, just because you're good at a game (I take games seriously - that doesn't mean I'm good at every game ever), don't expect me to turn on handicaps just to make it hard for you.  If you don't want to play with me because I don't know the game, that's fine, but don't demean me by impairing yourself to make it "fair".  I can get better to make it "fair".  Until then, be content with winning or I'll play solo.

An easy win is neither exciting nor constructive though, so why take it?  I'll do everything it takes to win, but I won't waste my time with perfect scores and showing off just because it's an easy match.  I take advantage of easy wins to train myself to get better at a more versatile repertoire of tactics.  When winning doesn't take effort NOW, I make an effort to improve so I can win more important matches in the FUTURE.  I don't handicap myself to help others win: I just increase my risk so I can up my game.


Hopefully this was enlightening for recreational/pro gamers and decently representative of my fellow hardcore gamers.

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Tofu
(shoutouts to ha~ma, KogaRyu, Seleucos, and xcthulhux; you mah bros dawgz)



* - I consider pro gamers and hardcore gamers very different.  Pro gamers are people who focus on getting good at games and winning tournaments.  For a pro gamer, it's a task to be completed.  For hardcore gamers, it's simply how we play.  A pro gamer might decide they want to become pro at a game, then buy it along with everything it takes to be the best, then grind it until they're happy with where they are in the game.  A hardcore gamer will go to a game store, get a copy of Hello Kitty Adventures from the bargain bin, and figure out a way to play it competitively.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2010, 01:44:25 am by DancingTofu »
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Offline Seraph

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Offline ha~ma

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2010, 01:16:10 am »
sorry i think competitive gmaing is for losers no offense ^^;;

Offline Seraph

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2010, 01:32:55 am »
sorry i think competitive gmaing is for losers no offense ^^;;
I think you just offended an entire country ^_^*
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Offline DancingTofu

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2010, 03:32:24 am »
sorry i think competitive gmaing is for losers no offense ^^;;
oh u
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Offline ha~ma

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2010, 11:30:33 pm »
sorry i think competitive gmaing is for losers no offense ^^;;
I think you just offended an entire country ^_^*
i dunno what ur talking about... i dont think there are THAT many serius gamers in maerica....

Offline oslapedo

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2010, 11:53:52 pm »
But the lulz is what makes Apples to Apples so awesome.

This makes me think of a Stop Having Fun Guy more than a Scrub. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StopHavingFunGuys
« Last Edit: February 21, 2010, 11:58:43 pm by oslapedo »
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Offline DancingTofu

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2010, 06:26:07 am »
Yeah, I'm definitely a stop having fun guy.  I won't deny that.  Especially if the game is Mario Kart DD or anything major in Monster Hunter Freedom Unite.  You generally don't want to play either of those games with me unless you're at least as intense of a gamer as I am. :P

Which is why I try to play games that my less serious gamer friends are really good at which I've never played before, so I don't have to be a killjoy in order to play seriously. 
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Offline NARUNIK

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2010, 08:59:53 pm »
SMASH BROS BRAWL.


Im not sure but do we have like tournaments at the con?

Offline Griff_the_dragoon

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2010, 09:19:45 pm »
Not really much of a competitive gamer. The only one I can think of when it comes to competitive gaming for me would be Tetris >.<
Other then that I just play to make sure I am not bored out of my mind all the time.

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Offline Kurokaizoku

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2010, 12:24:28 pm »
SMASH BROS BRAWL.


Im not sure but do we have like tournaments at the con?

We do have tournaments at con. SSBB is one of our major draw tourneys. Tournaments will be announced closer to con. And SSBB will be returning again.
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Offline DancingTofu

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2010, 08:21:37 pm »
lmao @ smash as a competitive game. No high / low mixup because you can omnidirectional block, mashing mechanics, chance mechanics, tons of glitches that hurt competitive play, strong arming community that bans things for irrational and puzzling reasons. Yeah, great game.
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Offline fleur_fraise

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2010, 08:30:21 pm »
Were you being hardcore in our Talim vs Talim battle at Mewcon?
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Offline oslapedo

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2010, 08:38:44 pm »
It is a great game if you like funnn.
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Offline Darknight2433

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2010, 08:52:56 pm »
I play games for a lot of reasons, or at least I used to. THE PLOTS, THE PLOTS~ From simple things like Kingdom Hearts, to a bit more like Tales of Symphonia, then to Shadow of Destiny, down to things like Heavy Rain. I LOVE THEM~ I can't get enough of a good plot, and this is the main reason I am a moderate fan of the FF series. I love 12, 10, and the complexities of the others, and that is all I play for. The whole battle system I don't much care about, if the game has one, and I can even hate the characters. The controls can be difficult and clunky and maybe it can be too hard for more ridiculous reasons, but I will love it anyway, as long as the plot is given at the right pace~

I don't like having to fight a bunch of enemies to level, but I can deal. The only real games I play for gameplay is Taito Legends (2), We <3 Katamari, and L4D2

Offline NARUNIK

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2010, 10:00:16 pm »
I vote for a FF dissidia tournament.


and Smash Bros is awesome! Sure it gets a bit crazy but ya know what? Thats the whole reason why people play it.

Oh and Pokemon tournaments also. That would be cool. People could bring their own games and links or DS WIFI and battle and trade.


Offline Kurokaizoku

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2010, 11:06:14 pm »
lmao @ smash as a competitive game. No high / low mixup because you can omnidirectional block, mashing mechanics, chance mechanics, tons of glitches that hurt competitive play, strong arming community that bans things for irrational and puzzling reasons. Yeah, great game.

Yep. Its so bad as a competitive game that we drew 150 people last year. Terrible game, cant understand why we continue it.
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Offline DancingTofu

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2010, 05:56:08 am »
For clarification, that was ha~ma posting from my account without realizing that I was logged in (probably should have since it's my computer, but whatever).  Told him not to worry about though because I agree with him in regards to it being a terrible game in a competitive sense.  It draws lots of people because it's easy to play and everyone thinks they're good at it, but the competitive gameplay of the game (and the series in general) is really limited.  It's not a terrible game.  Economically, it's brilliant.  It makes a lot of sense because it's unique in its appeal, but its appeal doesn't translate into actual competitive communities because of the flaws that Matt listed, all of which are completely legitimate issues with the game on a competitive level.


@ Megan: Nothing ruins a good game for me more than a linear plot.  For example, FFT has a great storyline, but the fact that it doesn't have replay value outside of the storyline kills it for me.  I played through it once and the game was done.  Despite having a great battle system, good character development, and pleasant graphics, I only got about 65 hours of gameplay out of it.

On the other hand, a plot like Cave Story's (Doukutsu Monogatari) really works well for me.  Not only does it have numerous endings and a lot of plot twists that rely on the player's decisions, but the game is designed with a secret final stage that's perfectly suited for competitive replay.  There's even a timer built into the game that measures your speedrun records. (you have to find the timer though)  That's how a plot should be integrated into a good game.  For something like Final Fantasy X, it would have been much better executed as a movie or a visual novel.  As a game, you get 40 hours of pointless grinding and a couple hours a cinematic cutscenes.  The only thing that made the game worth playing for me was Blitzball, which honestly would have been more enjoyable as a standalone game.


@ Katie: probably.  MEW Con's all pretty fuzzy for me; I think I got a grand total of 10 hours of sleep for that week. :P  That said, I think I was playing fairly seriously.  At the same time though, I was trying to avoid being a killjoy by going in, learning 3 broken moves, and playing like a douche. (which is what I generally do for tournaments for games I suck at) Long answer short: I really don't remember.  Probably not. :P
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Offline fleur_fraise

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2010, 06:44:59 am »
oh lol. I had fun, we both won some and lost some. It was a good game.
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Offline Kurokaizoku

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2010, 11:30:44 am »
I vote for a FF dissidia tournament.


and Smash Bros is awesome! Sure it gets a bit crazy but ya know what? Thats the whole reason why people play it.

Oh and Pokemon tournaments also. That would be cool. People could bring their own games and links or DS WIFI and battle and trade.



We did have a pokemon battle. We also this year are looking at having a space for handhelds to meetup/play in the gaming tower. Look for more information closer to con.
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Offline Cyprus

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2010, 12:26:36 pm »
The only thing that made the game worth playing for me was Blitzball, which honestly would have been more enjoyable as a standalone game.
Although I personally love FFX...I have to agree that Blitzball would have made an amazing standalone title. My FFX playtime is always jacked WAY up because of the countless hours of Blitzball that I play...I love it.

Offline ha~ma

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2010, 02:05:33 pm »
lmao @ smash as a competitive game. No high / low mixup because you can omnidirectional block, mashing mechanics, chance mechanics, tons of glitches that hurt competitive play, strong arming community that bans things for irrational and puzzling reasons. Yeah, great game.

Yep. Its so bad as a competitive game that we drew 150 people last year. Terrible game, cant understand why we continue it.
You should probably give a stronger rebuttal than an ad populum statement, because we all know how smart the average gamer is. No one in any serious gaming community respects Smash. Just because people play Smash seriously doesn't mean it is a good competitive game. People play tons of games seriously that aren't good competitive games (Dissidia, Smash, GH, WoW and a few other games come to mind immediately).
« Last Edit: February 25, 2010, 02:07:35 pm by ha~ma »

Offline Kurokaizoku

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2010, 09:19:02 pm »
lmao @ smash as a competitive game. No high / low mixup because you can omnidirectional block, mashing mechanics, chance mechanics, tons of glitches that hurt competitive play, strong arming community that bans things for irrational and puzzling reasons. Yeah, great game.

Yep. Its so bad as a competitive game that we drew 150 people last year. Terrible game, cant understand why we continue it.
You should probably give a stronger rebuttal than an ad populum statement, because we all know how smart the average gamer is. No one in any serious gaming community respects Smash. Just because people play Smash seriously doesn't mean it is a good competitive game. People play tons of games seriously that aren't good competitive games (Dissidia, Smash, GH, WoW and a few other games come to mind immediately).

TBH, I dont care enough to give a rebuttal at all. I only said that because I couldnt bite my tongue. It was a snarky remark that probably could have been left unsaid. I dont really care how people view video games. They are not my industry nor are they a factor into my daily life.
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Offline Kurokaizoku

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2010, 09:20:58 pm »
BTW my last comment was not meant to sound like I'm being bitchy. I'm just tired and my son is refusing to sleep. So it was the fastest I could get something out.
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Offline ha~ma

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2010, 12:53:00 am »
They obviously factor into your life or matter to you to some degree or you wouldn't be VGR assistant manager. And yeah, that was snarky and very lazy of you to say you don't care but take the time to respond.

Offline DancingTofu

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2010, 01:52:22 am »
oh lol. I had fun, we both won some and lost some. It was a good game.
Trufax. :)
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Offline Kurokaizoku

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2010, 04:37:19 pm »
They obviously factor into your life or matter to you to some degree or you wouldn't be VGR assistant manager. And yeah, that was snarky and very lazy of you to say you don't care but take the time to respond.

Not sure how its lazy but meh. And into my daily life? No. Into my con life, yes. And its because I dont need to play them to manage the room. I dont take it personal if people hate video games. Or hate what games we choose to run a tournament of.
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Offline ha~ma

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2010, 05:06:42 pm »
They obviously factor into your life or matter to you to some degree or you wouldn't be VGR assistant manager. And yeah, that was snarky and very lazy of you to say you don't care but take the time to respond.

Not sure how its lazy but meh. And into my daily life? No. Into my con life, yes. And its because I dont need to play them to manage the room. I dont take it personal if people hate video games. Or hate what games we choose to run a tournament of.
I never took anything personal, this is a discussion. What makes you qualified to manage a room of a games you have no understanding of? Oh well.

Offline Kurokaizoku

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2010, 05:32:20 pm »
Qualified to run the room? How would playing them help my qualifications? I know how the room needs to run to make it function smoothly. I dont run the tournaments, we have people that run them that play the game and some that dont. The only reason we have someone that knows the game is to judge a call. I know how to handle the video games and keep them secure. Playing video games is not in my job description.

It's like working customer support for a company you dont use. Your trained in what they want and how they want you to do it. Doesnt mean you use their product.
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Offline ha~ma

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2010, 07:39:14 pm »
Knowing the thing you are supporting does everything. Even if you were honestly that disconnected from the games it sure doesn't hurt to be helpful as a volunteer in a gaming to help other gamers if they have a question. Don't tell me you've never been asked questions about rules or other things before. By being a staffer in a room it should be a given you know something about the room you're staffing. If you're going to use the analogy of a support, do you want to be the lazy employee that frustrates customers due to lack of in depth knowledge? If you're really that hands-off about games I don't see why you choose to work with them. I like "Not in my job description". The "Not my problem" attitude will get you far in life.

This brings me back to my original post: You came out of nowhere to call me out on something you admit you know nothing about!
« Last Edit: February 26, 2010, 07:48:55 pm by ha~ma »

Offline dshwshr55

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2010, 08:16:44 pm »
Sorry, ha~ma, I think Kuro is winning the "discussion" XDIt's true, that's why she's NOT the only one staffing the room. And there's more that needs to be handled than people asking video game questions. I won't put it to a vote, but I wasn't staffing the room and I was very pleased with how things went there. It was one of places during the con last year that had positive feedback!

Offline ha~ma

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #31 on: February 26, 2010, 09:57:43 pm »
That doesn't address the points in my post at all, but whatever.

Offline dshwshr55

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #32 on: February 26, 2010, 10:51:29 pm »
^^

Offline Seluecos

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2010, 02:13:01 am »
Glad I got a shout out :D

I largely agree with Tofu on this issue (Read first post and jumped btw xD)
If there is a game I'm interested in, I usually play pretty hardcore, but I have been able to put aside that lately when there are games that are supposed to just be fun (IE Apples to Apples, SSBB, Little Big Planet, etc) but games that just shout COMPETE to me, I play em hardcore/pro if I'm interested in it.
For examples of pro: BlazBlue (if you saw me at MEW, I'm good, and that was with a 360 controller, I play on the PS3 with a stick xD), Brawl+, StarCraft, League of Legends, etc.
For Hardcore: most racers, all fighters (except Tekken and Virtua Fighter, but those suck for fighters xD), Monster Hunter, most RPG's (I play for story too :D) action/adventure games, etc.

Point is, I'm naturally pretty good at games, so I like to improve it/sharpen it when I can. I play games for the challenge of it mostly ^^
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Offline DancingTofu

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2010, 05:45:37 am »
Yeah, I've been getting better at not being the "stop having fun guy" and learning to play certain games (Apples to Apples is the only one that comes to mind for me, actually) for fun.  I can't even play a trivial game like Yahtzee or Go Fish without getting competitive.  As a kid, I even played games like Tic-tac-toe "hardcore."

In some ways, the hardcore style is actually fairly rational.  As a tester or a game designer, it's a huge asset.  A person who is able to strip a game down to its gameplay is more likely to find gameplay flaws and as a result more likely to turn out a balanced game.  One of the big issues with a lot of games (SSBB being one, Mario Kart series being another, Magic: The Gathering as well) is that a lot of balance is being lost.  Almost any game with a large competitive fanbase has a bunch of tiers for top-level play, and usually the top tier only consists of a small portion of the content.  As a result, top-tier content gets banned, or second-tier content gets ignored.  In Mario Kart Wii, karts are worthless at top tier play because bikes have better control and a huge advantage on straightaways because they can wheelie where karts have to snake.  Only a god-tier kart user can beat a decent bike user in MKWii because of how much skill and precision it takes to snake well.  Right there, half the content of the game (and the entire original concept) is lost for competitive play.  With every Mario Kart game, most of the items have to be disabled.  Again, more content being lost.  With Mario Kart Double Dash (the only one I play competitively), only one class (heavy) is worth driving, and three (half) of the heavy karts are "broken", so ultimately you wind up with tournaments only utilizing 5% or less of the game's content.

Pat, we definitely need to play some MH some time.  What weapon classes do you use primarily?  I'm best with GS but I'm also pretty good with Hammer, HH, GL, SnS, and Bow, and I'm decent with pretty much everything except Lance.
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Offline Seluecos

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2010, 02:18:55 am »
I'm a GS user as well, but I kinda stopped playing in favor of League of Legends and Aion currently, and I'm only rank 4-5 or so I think xD\

But yeah, my fav game as far as being both fun and competitive is Brawl+
All the characters are pretty well balanced (and the creators make patches to help balance further) and so you can make it competitive with all the chars (Yes, even Ganondorf can beat Metaknight in Brawl+ xD)
Then, with a simple addition of 2 people and items WHABAM! The game is a complete insane mess of chaos and fun, thus make all content viable for the situation at hand :D
« Last Edit: February 28, 2010, 02:21:32 am by Seluecos »
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Offline DancingTofu

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #36 on: March 01, 2010, 12:37:50 am »
This is the first time I've heard of Brawl+.  Is it a competitive patch of SSBB?

I'm on my fourth or fifth MH save.  Finally got up to HR8 again the other day.  Been working on farming for a bunch of random stuff for better weapons and armor for the last couple days but I'll probably hit HR9 on Tuesday.
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Offline ha~ma

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #37 on: March 01, 2010, 02:39:29 am »
The problem with Brawl+ is that it doesn't remedy the core mechanics of smash, which are still incredibly simplistic and also problematic for a competitive environment.

Offline Kurokaizoku

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #38 on: March 01, 2010, 11:35:24 pm »
Knowing the thing you are supporting does everything. Even if you were honestly that disconnected from the games it sure doesn't hurt to be helpful as a volunteer in a gaming to help other gamers if they have a question. Don't tell me you've never been asked questions about rules or other things before. By being a staffer in a room it should be a given you know something about the room you're staffing. If you're going to use the analogy of a support, do you want to be the lazy employee that frustrates customers due to lack of in depth knowledge? If you're really that hands-off about games I don't see why you choose to work with them. I like "Not in my job description". The "Not my problem" attitude will get you far in life.

This brings me back to my original post: You came out of nowhere to call me out on something you admit you know nothing about!

i can honestly say I havent been asked about rules of games. I deal with logistics of the room. And I didnt 'call you out'. I pointed out that as a competitive game it obvious is good enough to get plenty of draw. I based my statement on dealing with hosting a tournament for the game. I've done customer support. And Ive been a customer. When working in customer service, say for a cell phone company, I know my product as best I can and anything I dont store I have access to via internal systems designed for such a situation. In my 3 years of working in the game room I have not been asked about how to play a specific game. When it comes to rules of competition I can usually tell someone how its going to be judged, if told to me by whoever is setting up the rules. Simple as that. I have also never said that something was not in my job description. And I've also avoided saying 'not my problem' in my professional life. But thank you for assuming the worst ^_^
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Offline Seluecos

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #39 on: March 02, 2010, 11:58:16 pm »
The problem with Brawl+ is that it doesn't remedy the core mechanics of smash, which are still incredibly simplistic and also problematic for a competitive environment.
Marvel VS Capcom 2 is a VERY simple fighter, but it is highly competitive, seeing as, while simple, it has depth, which Brawl+ helps by bringing the speed/pace of the game up as well as opening up the avenue of combo hits to a wider variety of moves/characters. Smash attacks require timing in order to make them effective, they're also VERY limited as they can only be used on the ground, and seeing as most of competitive scene requires concise dodging combined with well placed, well timed aerial maneuvers, both of which make smash attacks require a gamble (Seeing as most smash's have long recovery times, so you have to time the attack well, while standing still, leaving yourself open to attacks if you mess up).  But, that's just my view on it xD

This is the first time I've heard of Brawl+.  Is it a competitive patch of SSBB?
I wouldn't go as far as to call it that, but it is in essence that. It's a fan made patch requiring homebrew on a Wii. It basically makes Brawl a viable option on the competitive scene, as well as opening up multiplayer to less hardcore players who maybe play other games hardcore. (Wow that last sentence makes little sense xD)
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Offline KogaRyu

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #40 on: March 03, 2010, 01:40:16 am »
(except Tekken and Virtua Fighter, but those suck for fighters xD)

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Offline ha~ma

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #41 on: March 03, 2010, 10:44:29 am »
Knowing the thing you are supporting does everything. Even if you were honestly that disconnected from the games it sure doesn't hurt to be helpful as a volunteer in a gaming to help other gamers if they have a question. Don't tell me you've never been asked questions about rules or other things before. By being a staffer in a room it should be a given you know something about the room you're staffing. If you're going to use the analogy of a support, do you want to be the lazy employee that frustrates customers due to lack of in depth knowledge? If you're really that hands-off about games I don't see why you choose to work with them. I like "Not in my job description". The "Not my problem" attitude will get you far in life.

This brings me back to my original post: You came out of nowhere to call me out on something you admit you know nothing about!

i can honestly say I havent been asked about rules of games. I deal with logistics of the room. And I didnt 'call you out'. I pointed out that as a competitive game it obvious is good enough to get plenty of draw. I based my statement on dealing with hosting a tournament for the game. I've done customer support. And Ive been a customer. When working in customer service, say for a cell phone company, I know my product as best I can and anything I dont store I have access to via internal systems designed for such a situation. In my 3 years of working in the game room I have not been asked about how to play a specific game. When it comes to rules of competition I can usually tell someone how its going to be judged, if told to me by whoever is setting up the rules. Simple as that. I have also never said that something was not in my job description. And I've also avoided saying 'not my problem' in my professional life. But thank you for assuming the worst ^_^
You completely ignored my post. Just because something gets play does not make it a good game. And if you don't understand the game how can you call it a viable competitive game or not? The jist of the rest of my post was "Knowledge never hurts". You literally said playing games (therefore understanding them) is not in your job description two of your posts ago but you have all the resources in the world to have a basic understanding of what's going on (so you don't even have to play)!. What do you call this?

The problem with Brawl+ is that it doesn't remedy the core mechanics of smash, which are still incredibly simplistic and also problematic for a competitive environment.
Marvel VS Capcom 2 is a VERY simple fighter,
lol

Offline Seluecos

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #42 on: March 03, 2010, 01:44:55 pm »
Oh Ha~ma, I re-read you post about smash. I mistook it for smash attacks, sorry if I seemed ignorant due to that xD
« Last Edit: March 03, 2010, 01:45:09 pm by Seluecos »
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Offline Seluecos

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #43 on: March 03, 2010, 01:49:27 pm »
(except Tekken and Virtua Fighter, but those suck for fighters xD)

THANKYOU!!!

No problem, fun yet terrible games xD
Also, I feel Ha~ma said something that relates to this subject:
Just because something gets play does not make it a good game.

I totally agree with this. I play a lot of games that are fun, but from a competitive/good game stand point are really really bad, for example (again) Tekken. But it is fun still despite the most fail fighting mechanics the genre has seen since Mortal Kombat lol

Sorry for the double post, I wanted to recognize KogaRyu and Ha~ma's remarks as I forgot I wanted to do that before I submitted the last post and couldn't figure out how to add a quote or two into the "modify post". Also, apologies if I offend anyone with my bash on MK and Tekken xD
« Last Edit: March 03, 2010, 01:52:12 pm by Seluecos »
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Offline ha~ma

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #44 on: March 03, 2010, 05:53:28 pm »
uhhhhhhhh
I'm not sure why you think VF, Tekken and MK are bad (UMK3 is a good game, just not played much anymore).
I should really stop posting on these forums...
« Last Edit: March 03, 2010, 05:55:10 pm by ha~ma »

Offline dshwshr55

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #45 on: March 03, 2010, 07:07:22 pm »
I think the finishing moves of the MK's got cheesy after MKII. MKII is one of the most downloaded games on the PSN, too.
Competitive games (and the definition of competitive) are relative opinions. MK has such a different fighting configuration from other games (namely no motion-based super moves and using a button to block), but being different doesn't mean it's not a competitive game.
Simply put, I think anything that takes hours and hours and hours of practice to beat the next guy - no matter how you do it - is competitive. Someone is always going to be the best, no matter the game. And nobody gets there by mashing or playing it the first time. 

Offline DancingTofu

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #46 on: March 06, 2010, 10:08:21 am »
Quote
Someone is always going to be the best, no matter the game.
This is really the core of what I'm trying to talk about here.  People are going to take ridiculous games seriously, because some people are just such hardcore gamers that they can't play games otherwise.  The fact that people have maxed the score in games like Bubble Bobble or Duck Hunt drives that point home.
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Offline allstarsniper32

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #47 on: March 23, 2010, 08:21:17 pm »
I disagree with the hardcore statements, being competitive isn't being hardcore, it's being competitive. There's really nothing wrong with that. I feel the longer you play a game, the more hardcore you are at that specific game. Pro players are obviously competitive so how does that not make them a hardcore "whatever game they are pro at" player? No matter how bad the game is, someone is likely to continuously play it long after it's released. I'm sure there's exceptions as to games getting played long after release.

Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #48 on: August 18, 2010, 04:08:49 pm »
My friends and I have been called bad sports, cheaters, or killjoys for doing everything it takes to win.  I disagree with those labels absolutely.  We're not playing to be mean, or to kill your fun.  We're playing to win.  

I'd like to say that it's people like this that make me hate playing some games against other people.

Let me take King of Fighters as an example.  If I get a copy of a game in the series, I'll set it to the easiest setting first, so that I can unlock everything possible and get me familiar with the moves.  After I do that, I'll play with the characters that I like in normal setting, so that my victories against the computer have merit.

When I go against people, I have to get use to their strategies, since they're usually different from that of the CPU.  However, when I got against someone who's incredibly "good" at these games.  They'll attack me with a move, then a series of combos so quickly that I don't even get the chance to stand up.  This type of technique is disgusting!

I believe in fair fighting, otherwise, there's no point.  If your style is "hit 'em first and kill 'em," you not only take out the fun, but you have no merit!  It upsets me when people do this;  when I take someone down after a combo, I let them get back up.  this makes things more competetive, and more fun!
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Offline DancingTofu

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #49 on: September 13, 2010, 04:19:14 am »
Sorry for the delayed reponse; I've been gone for a few months.

I disagree with the hardcore statements, being competitive isn't being hardcore, it's being competitive. There's really nothing wrong with that. I feel the longer you play a game, the more hardcore you are at that specific game. Pro players are obviously competitive so how does that not make them a hardcore "whatever game they are pro at" player? No matter how bad the game is, someone is likely to continuously play it long after it's released. I'm sure there's exceptions as to games getting played long after release.
You're missing the point entirely.  It's a mentality; not a status.  I'm a pro MKDD player.  I'm a good DDR player.  I'm a decent Rock Band player.  I'm a horrible DrumMania player.  I'm a hardcore gamer though.  Whereas a casual gamer plays a game they aren't good at and says "oh man I suck lol", I reflect on ways I can improve my game, and I keep playing as long as I feel I can continue to improve myself.  One of the reasons I don't play fighters at all is because I know that I'd drain off 200 hours of my life learning every move of every character before even considering playing against another player, then I'd drain away hundreds more hours figuring out the elaborate psychological patterns of my opponents.  Pro =/= Hardcore.

Washougal,
I know a lot of people who play KoF competitively.  Those combos aren't infinite.  What you see as unfair is what pro players see as competitive viability.  Long invulnerability frames make fighter games sluggish.  If you want to have a more sporting chance, try blocking during recovery then prepare yourself to counter-attack with a quick move if your character has good priority or get out of your opponent's line of fire if they don't.  Anticipate that your opponent's going to try to "kick you while you're down" and use it to your advantage.  Fighter games are fun because they're psychologically dynamic.  If you're not anticipating your opponent's attacks then you're missing out on the entire point of fighters.
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Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #50 on: September 13, 2010, 07:21:14 pm »
Block doesn't do jack for me, and that's not the point.  I don't see it as being competetive when it's one sided.  To put it to a football term, it's like having the New England Patriots facing off against the Camas Papermakers, and winning 259-0.  When a player doesn't give you the chance to get up because he's so focused on attacking you with three combos at the same time (which yes, I know is impossible, but it feels like these people do it somehow), it's not fun, is't not competetive, it's crap!  This is why I don't do tournaments.  If I want to get slaughtered like that, I'll jump into a wood chipper.  I play for fun, not to lose without having a chance to PLAY.
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Offline DancingTofu

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #51 on: September 13, 2010, 11:51:06 pm »
Haha yeah I can understand that.  Nothing wrong with that for sure.  Most people feel that way.  Personally I'd just rather lose horribly than lose by a little and feel like my opponent was holding back.
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Offline Slash5150

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #52 on: September 15, 2010, 08:21:09 pm »
LOLWUT!?  Tekken and VF are bad fighters.  HAHA.  It may be an opinion...but IMO its a terrible opinion.  They're only bad if you can't learn how to play them.

When it comes to fighters, you have to expect that there is a chance that someone who knows how to play the game will come in and beat you.  It's very simple in that you have to practice how you play, you have to go into every game knowing what you want to do and that you have to win.  Why?  Because sometimes at tournaments, you will come across those kinds of people who do stuff that is, essentially entry level, aka (in SF4 terms with Ken) J.mk, c. mk, fp SRK.  Thats a very entry level combo and sometimes, people who are competitive give too much to our opponents and we try to play their game instead of ours.

If you are getting beat down in KOF, figure out why you were getting KD'd and then what your options were.

Also I need to hear this from the person who said it.

HOW is MvC2 simple. 
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Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: Recreational Gaming vs. Competitive Gaming: Your Favorite Game Sucks
« Reply #53 on: September 16, 2010, 07:31:44 am »
If you are getting beat down in KOF, figure out why you were getting KD'd and then what your options were.

I already said why...
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