Author Topic: The Economics of Gaming  (Read 13182 times)

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Offline DancingTofu

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The Economics of Gaming
« on: January 29, 2010, 07:23:05 pm »
With the economy in a recession, Oregon's unemployment high, and gaming expenses high, a lot of people have voiced concerns about the economics of the gaming industry.  This thread is for the discussion of that topic in a civil manner.  Feel free to continue any existing discussions from other threads here, or start a new one.

Good luck; play hard; have fun.
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Offline Griff_the_dragoon

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2010, 07:34:19 pm »
Wait so we are basically arguing about why games are to much???

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Offline Styx

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2010, 08:21:45 pm »
No, we are discussing the gaming industry's choices in pricing, and how or why they should be changed.

Geez, I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition.

(note: I vowed to make that reference at least once a day, and I didn't get a chance.  I apologize.)

Offline Darknight2433

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2010, 09:40:31 pm »
I got pissed when the height of new games turned to 60$. I liked my steady 50$ all that time ago.

I haven't bought a new game in forevvver, and I still have to open LfD2 and some Rachet and Clank one. And finish Assassin's Creed, and it's sequel. Ugh.

Offline oslapedo

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2010, 09:42:57 pm »
The most recent game I've bought was a used copy of Paper Mario for the N64 but my dad got me PC Arkham Asylum for Xmas.

As a jobless student with other hobbies that beat out gaming, $60 is too much for me personally, but I'm generally not into those sorts of games anyways, so~
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Offline Styx

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2010, 09:50:04 pm »
I got pissed when the height of new games turned to 60$. I liked my steady 50$ all that time ago.

I haven't bought a new game in forevvver, and I still have to open LfD2 and some Rachet and Clank one. And finish Assassin's Creed, and it's sequel. Ugh.
When gaming becomes a chore, that means it's time to quit.

Just saying.

There ARE definitely less expensive hobbies out there.  I think that, as games become more advanced, they will end up costing more.  Like with NATAL (is that what it's called) and the Wii, motion sensor technology is inserting itself into gaming.  I think that once the tech starts increasing, it will get more and more expensive to make the games, making the prices go up.

Still, I can't wait to unwrap that VR gig.

Offline Darknight2433

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2010, 09:51:36 pm »
No, I'm just lazy. Everything is a chore. Once I get into it I'm allll good.

And besides, I quit a long time ago. Last time I played was Christmas with Rock Band, I think.

Offline Cyprus

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2010, 10:16:03 pm »
Um... There's  a reason that these games cost $60 for XBox and $50 for PC. I don't know if you ever watched the credits for something like Borderland or Mass Effect, but it lists well over 400 people that worked on the game.

So lets take 400 people, 2 years, paying them $65,000 (which is low BTW) and you get $58,000,000. So yeah, games cost just a little to make.
Just like union worker in car facilities...OVERPAID

I take great offense to this.

I work in the industry (If you think I am lying, go ahead and look for my name in the Fable II credits). A lot of these games do cost a lot of money to make, to say that I for one, don't deserve to be paid and that a $60 price tag isn't fair is a slap in the face to my industry. You're basically saying that I can right screw off and get minimum wage for my hard (sometimes 100 hours a week) work to make sure that the game ships with as few bugs and issues as possible.

Also, not everyone lives with their parents. Your post attacking Tofu makes you look like a self-important person, and again, the rest of us can right screw off. Also, I'd like to point out something really quick:

Quote
Don't lecture me as if you know a single thing about my work or my life. I work my a** off every day & have been for more years than you could probably fathom.  I OWN MY HOUSE...MY CARS...MY PROPERTY. Where is your studio apt. located again? Or maybe its just the basement in mom's house? Don't patronize me. Think before you try to lecture people you don't know & keep your self-centered OPINION to yourself.

I've bolded those two things to point out your hypocrisy. You're saying not to assume your life or work, and then you go off and assume other people's. Just saying. Not everyone here is a stereotypical gamer, and you really have no right assuming everyone in this thread is.


I will also point out to you quite a few games on the SNES ran for $70, and people still bought them; people will pay money for something if they really want it, and moreson if they are going to get quite a bit of playtime out of it.

This argument was not at tofu in any way...it was at the jack*** attitude I recieved from mustash when stating my original opinion. Hypocrit?...maybe in this instance I am yes...& proud of who I am anyway. It is human nature when attacked to retaliate & my goal was to spit insulting words back to hurt the attacker...& yes, maybe I am that heartless...but you don't know that since you don't know me. This topic is pointless to continue as it is too close to politics & everyone thinks they are right NO MATTER WHAT. Plus, I'm about as stubborn as they come & no matter what you say to me, you will NEVER change my feelings on this matter...even if you ARE in the industry...I honestly just don't care. Hate me, like me...I won't lose sleep either way over it lol. Oh the wonderful place called the World Wide Web...how I love the faceless slander thrown around like an infants toys.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2010, 12:34:06 pm by Cyprus »

Offline Darknight2433

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2010, 10:18:35 pm »
Whoa peeps, all I'm saying is I don't like it. I don't like coke being 1.50$ either, but not like arguing will change that~

Offline ishpumalibu

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2010, 03:00:30 am »
I read the topic wrong I thought it was the economy game, like the stock market game, which can be fun...

Offline Seluecos

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2010, 01:37:42 am »
The price of gaming just makes me think about what I want a bit more, I've what back on gaming a bit (Though you wouldn't think it @_@)
Just means I'm not buying anything EA ever put their hands on XD
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Offline DancingTofu

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2010, 04:30:19 am »
I suppose it's the same way to me.  Gaming for me is a flexible demand.  It's important to me to play games, but I only buy games with money that I have after paying necessary expenses.  However, it's really my only luxury expense besides the occasional dinner out or the even rarer concert/movie/play, so basically I just take my excess each month, buy any gaming stuff I want and can afford, then stash the rest.  Occasionally I'll find a game that I really feel the need to get seriously into, but generally I'll be able to afford it without straining my budget.  Other than games that I know I want and know I can afford, if I'm going into a game shop, I only bother to look at what I know I can afford.  If I walk into Game Trader with $10, I'm not going to bother to ask what import games they have in stock or how much they want for the Pop'n Music controller in the back. (just to name some examples)
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Offline ha~ma

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2010, 12:37:36 am »
There are too many good games that are available for free or at a nominal cost to call gaming an expensive hobby. If gaming is an expensive hobby you aren't digging around enough. And people have no right to complain about games being expensive... Stuff is cheaper than 12 or more years back.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2010, 12:42:47 am by ha~ma »

Offline tofutakeout

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2010, 10:06:25 pm »
The prices for games is one of the reason's as to why I'm not as big of a gamer as I could be. Because the systems tend to cost so much as well. :< But if there's a game I really want I ask for it as a gift or I just save like mad. Which doesn't happen often since I have to put most of my money to feeding myself and spending on con's.

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Offline Cyprus

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2010, 07:08:09 am »
There are too many good games that are available for free or at a nominal cost to call gaming an expensive hobby. If gaming is an expensive hobby you aren't digging around enough. And people have no right to complain about games being expensive... Stuff is cheaper than 12 or more years back.
Last I checked, this is America...so there is every right for people to complain if they don't agree with something. Freedom of Speech...you might have heard of it. Plus, this is the internet, a place where people can share their opinion without showing a face. So you will have a lot of people arguing their opinions, who would otherwise be shy if confronted in person.

Anymore these days, I prefer to buy when the used price drops to around 1/2 of the new or less...just not worth it otherwise.

Offline Bresslol

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2010, 09:12:48 am »
Quote
This argument was not at tofu in any way...it was at the jack*** attitude I recieved from mustash when stating my original opinion. Hypocrit?...maybe in this instance I am yes...& proud of who I am anyway.

So you are PROUD, PROUD of being a hypocrite! Congratulations! This post will be the final time I take anything you say seriously.

Quote
It is human nature when attacked to retaliate & my goal was to spit insulting words back to hurt the attacker...& yes, maybe I am that heartless...but you don't know that since you don't know me. This topic is pointless to continue as it is too close to politics & everyone thinks they are right NO MATTER WHAT.

It is, however it's just as human to do it while proving a point to give facts and not admit you are hypocritical. You can also look like the bigger person and throw those insults back without being insulting.

On the matter of ending this, no, you're mostly wrong; You are right, at least one person in this discussion has thought they are right, and that person is you. I'm incredibly open-minded on the matter of my industry's economics, what I am not okay with is people like you saying those who work to make games deserve as little money as possible.



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Offline Cyprus

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2010, 10:12:13 am »
Quote
This argument was not at tofu in any way...it was at the jack*** attitude I recieved from mustash when stating my original opinion. Hypocrit?...maybe in this instance I am yes...& proud of who I am anyway.

So you are PROUD, PROUD of being a hypocrite! Congratulations! This post will be the final time I take anything you say seriously.

Quote
It is human nature when attacked to retaliate & my goal was to spit insulting words back to hurt the attacker...& yes, maybe I am that heartless...but you don't know that since you don't know me. This topic is pointless to continue as it is too close to politics & everyone thinks they are right NO MATTER WHAT.

It is, however it's just as human to do it while proving a point to give facts and not admit you are hypocritical. You can also look like the bigger person and throw those insults back without being insulting.

On the matter of ending this, no, you're mostly wrong; You are right, at least one person in this discussion has thought they are right, and that person is you. I'm incredibly open-minded on the matter of my industry's economics, what I am not okay with is people like you saying those who work to make games deserve as little money as possible.



Your OPINION is obviously very biased so there is no sense in trying to throw any kind of reason at you. You love your job...we get it...protect it as you will. EVERYONE who works always feel they don't make enough money for the work they do...congratulations for being no different than the rest of America.

I see now that your right...the gaming industry makes 0 profit even after being in business for so many years...ya, that must be why they keep doing it. Those executives driving $500,000 cars for commute just got lucky & won a small lottery.

Your position in the industry may very well be under-paid...but I'm sorry, I will not agree that everyone in the industry is. Maybe instead of hating on me, you should be more concerned with those that are sucking up all the profit for their own greed.


Offline ha~ma

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2010, 02:32:22 am »
Wow, I'm done in this thread. Cyprus, you're a moron.
You're 25 and can't accept that greed exists in a free market system. I really hope you're trolling.

Offline Griff_the_dragoon

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2010, 03:15:55 am »
To all who post in this thread
(content removed due to inappropriate language. -AF 2/9/10)
« Last Edit: February 09, 2010, 07:57:13 am by AllyKat »

China bound!!!

Offline Cyprus

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2010, 06:02:49 am »
Wow, I'm done in this thread. Cyprus, you're a moron.
You're 25 and can't accept that greed exists in a free market system. I really hope you're trolling.
I don't have to accept anything that I believe to be wrong. Are you the kind of person that just blindly follows rather than questioning something that is wrong? Also, you don't know me...so if you could keep your hate filled attacks to yourself, it would be much appreciated.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2010, 07:00:51 am by Cyprus »

Offline JeffT

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2010, 09:35:02 am »
Some of the posts in this thread, and in the Borderlands thread were the current subject started, have crossed the line into attacks. I'm not removing these posts as some of them are older now and it would disrupt the course of the thread too much for people reading from the beginning, but we'll remove them in the future if they continue.

Saying things like:

"Think before you try to lecture people you don't know & keep your self-centered OPINION to yourself." (And Cyprus, you then later said "so there is every right for people to complain if they don't agree with something" and "Plus, this is the internet, a place where people can share their opinion without showing a face."?)

"how I love the faceless slander thrown around like an infants toys."

"you're a moron."

"I really hope you're trolling."

"Are you the kind of person that just blindly follows rather than questioning something that is wrong?"

are not appropriate.

The forum code of conduct includes:

"Keep discussion friendly and civil, and keep discussion focused on the issue rather than the person. No personal attacks or speculating about another person's motives."

Thanks.
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Offline Griff_the_dragoon

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2010, 10:11:46 am »
All in favor of closing this forum???
seeing as no one here can get along and two it is just stupid to have it up anyway

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Offline AllyKat

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2010, 10:24:10 am »
Whilst adding to the straying of topic for this thread I will address your point Griff;

If you are refering to this individual thread and locking/deleting it;
That doesn't solve the inherent problem, and worthwhile information could be lost
in that shuffle. Contrary to popular belief, deleting and locking isn't the catch
all solution for all problems, I don't like doing it, but we do what we must WHEN
we MUST.

If you are refering to the entire Kumoricon Forum area;

I doubt the general assumption that everyone hates everyone is true, many
people get along just fine at the spoon castle, in the cosplay forum section, in
the AMV or other fan creation section and even in say almost anything you want!

What happens is the louder majority are very bright and very vocal individuals,
and as we all know, not all individuals feel the same way about most things, feelings
get hurt, tempers rise and issues present themselves.

The Important Thing To Remember Is This; We are all here to have fun
and get connected to a community that supports a convention and the hobby that
convention represents, Anime, Manga and the love of Japanese culture. in-fighting
occurs in every large grouping. But we can't let it be our whole image and we can't
get beaten down by it. Argumentation is a natural part of discussion, but taking it
personally gets people no where. In the end, we are all understanding human beings
with feelings. It takes a lot to remember that of the faceless masses on the other
side of the screen.

But when we do, we will enjoy the forums alot more. Regardless, things come in
phases and cycles, we may be in a lull now, but that could change quickly to a happy
and connected forum! Who knows!

TL;DR: Don't Worry! Be Happy!
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Offline Cyprus

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2010, 12:19:13 pm »
Some of the posts in this thread, and in the Borderlands thread were the current subject started, have crossed the line into attacks. I'm not removing these posts as some of them are older now and it would disrupt the course of the thread too much for people reading from the beginning, but we'll remove them in the future if they continue.

Saying things like:

"Think before you try to lecture people you don't know & keep your self-centered OPINION to yourself." (And Cyprus, you then later said "so there is every right for people to complain if they don't agree with something" and "Plus, this is the internet, a place where people can share their opinion without showing a face."?)

"how I love the faceless slander thrown around like an infants toys."

"you're a moron."

"I really hope you're trolling."

"Are you the kind of person that just blindly follows rather than questioning something that is wrong?"

are not appropriate.

The forum code of conduct includes:

"Keep discussion friendly and civil, and keep discussion focused on the issue rather than the person. No personal attacks or speculating about another person's motives."

Thanks.
First 2 are mere statements...I neglect to see where they are considered attacks at all lol. 3rd is a question...once again, how is that not ok?

Offline JeffT

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2010, 12:44:21 pm »
Some of the posts in this thread, and in the Borderlands thread were the current subject started, have crossed the line into attacks. I'm not removing these posts as some of them are older now and it would disrupt the course of the thread too much for people reading from the beginning, but we'll remove them in the future if they continue.

Saying things like:

"Think before you try to lecture people you don't know & keep your self-centered OPINION to yourself." (And Cyprus, you then later said "so there is every right for people to complain if they don't agree with something" and "Plus, this is the internet, a place where people can share their opinion without showing a face."?)

"how I love the faceless slander thrown around like an infants toys."

"you're a moron."

"I really hope you're trolling."

"Are you the kind of person that just blindly follows rather than questioning something that is wrong?"

are not appropriate.

The forum code of conduct includes:

"Keep discussion friendly and civil, and keep discussion focused on the issue rather than the person. No personal attacks or speculating about another person's motives."

Thanks.
First 2 are mere statements...I neglect to see where they are considered attacks at all lol. 3rd is a question...once again, how is that not ok?

For the first statement (and the 4th), it's not a poster's place to tell another person they can't participate in the thread. The parts you bolded are not the primary parts in question; I just added those to show you had completely contradicted yourself.

The second is an accusation of dishonesty and needlessly gratuitous.

The fifth (third one you bolded) is an attack on character rather than speaking to the subject of the discussion.
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Offline Cyprus

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2010, 02:14:42 pm »
I choose to dis-agree with my statements being "not appropriate". Good day to you...might as well just delete this thread anyway.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2010, 02:15:22 pm by Cyprus »

Offline ha~ma

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2010, 02:15:30 pm »
Wow, I'm done in this thread. Cyprus, you're a moron.
You're 25 and can't accept that greed exists in a free market system. I really hope you're trolling.
I don't have to accept anything that I believe to be wrong. Are you the kind of person that just blindly follows rather than questioning something that is wrong? Also, you don't know me...so if you could keep your hate filled attacks to yourself, it would be much appreciated.
I'm obviously questioning something if I use a word like "greed" that has negative connotations. In fact it's beyond questioning: I hate greed. Can I erase all the greed in the system? No. You can't exist in capitalism without perpetuating it.
And yes, I do know you better than you think from your last few posts.
I think you and I and for that matter all involved can discuss this in a civil fashion.

And JeffT: Speculating someone's motives is in my nature. I imagine I'm not the only one who approaches the internet with caution due to all the trolls, scammers and idiots. I think speculating someone's motives should be a prerequisite for posting on the internet, not a problem.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2010, 02:20:14 pm by ha~ma »

Offline Cyprus

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2010, 03:24:33 pm »
I fail to see how you could know me, as a person, from reading a few typed out posts on the internet...that is completely ignorant to think that lol. Personally, I feel that if more people stood up against things like greed, there might be less of it. Instead most just sit by & watch. I never said that it does not exist...no no no. I just feel that there are so many things in this world, such as greed, that could be stopped if enough people cared to do something about it.

Though I agree that this thread may have become less civil than intended, I still doubt anyone here is going to lose sleep over it. I personally don't take any of it to heart, nor most things on the internet. It's all just another form of entertainment.

Offline JeffT

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2010, 03:36:29 pm »
And JeffT: Speculating someone's motives is in my nature. I imagine I'm not the only one who approaches the internet with caution due to all the trolls, scammers and idiots. I think speculating someone's motives should be a prerequisite for posting on the internet, not a problem.

You can do it, just not in your posts. The point is that the discussion shouldn't be about people's characters, but should be about specific subjects. If one believes that another poster is dishonest, then no productive discussion can occur. And maybe some posters are, but that's not the point. Let a debate proceed according to the merit of the arguments.

The purpose of the forum is to provide a venue for discussion, not arrive at a single answer based on a supposed process that examines the characters or possible illicit motivations of the posters.
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Offline ha~ma

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2010, 02:55:30 am »
I fail to see how you could know me, as a person, from reading a few typed out posts on the internet...that is completely ignorant to think that lol. Personally, I feel that if more people stood up against things like greed, there might be less of it. Instead most just sit by & watch. I never said that it does not exist...no no no. I just feel that there are so many things in this world, such as greed, that could be stopped if enough people cared to do something about it.

Though I agree that this thread may have become less civil than intended, I still doubt anyone here is going to lose sleep over it. I personally don't take any of it to heart, nor most things on the internet. It's all just another form of entertainment.
I never said I completely understood you but I did say I understood you to a degree from your opinions.
How are you standing up to greed? Do you buy things? Do you work? Do you travel? Do you have the internet? Do you have electricity? If you answered yes to any of the above you're buying into a system perpetuating greed. Don't tell me you're above anything in this list. Don't make a generic statement asking more people to do something when you are part of the problem.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 02:58:29 am by ha~ma »

Offline DancingTofu

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2010, 03:55:12 am »
Cyprus, everybody is making a concentrated effort in this discussion to be open to others' positions and opinions except you right now.  Insight is a good thing.  Someone else doesn't need to be right in order for their contributions to be valid.  

Also, if you really don't think the internet merits any degree of serious discussion, why are you getting worked up over this discussion?  The internet is one of the greatest communication tools available to us.  Using it as a means of serious discussion is not unheard of nor ineffective.  In fact, for someone like myself who has autism to inhibit my ability to communicate well verbally, it's the only logical way to have a debate.

On topic:

I agree that people are greedy and that capitalism works to nurture that trait, but it's important to remember that greed is a great source of ambition.  It's that ambition that makes games worth it.  Again: games are priced by demand.  In Japan, PS2's still sell for easily three times what they cost in the US.  That's demand effecting pricing.  That's greed perpetuating greed.  People want things.  That's fine.  People buy things with the money they get from producing things people want.  It's cyclical.  All the money you get comes from somebody else.  All the money you spend goes to somebody else.  On top of that, any capital that isn't invested or spent is wasted.  People think that because it's a recession, they need to hang onto their money.  They're wrong.  That's how the Great Depression happened.  You should go out and buy everything you want and need that you can possibly afford.  Don't step outside your budget, but don't get stingy, otherwise you're strangling a struggling economy.
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Offline squall leonheart

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2010, 06:05:52 am »
I agree, debatable conversation need not be hostile, upsetting, or violent.  It's my opinion stating your opinion and being open to criticism is the best way to have good debate.  That being said I haven't had to much trouble paying for my games, though this of course comes down to a few things.  I budget myself very well and keep my budget under what I make.  Generally there aren't more than 4 or 5 games a year that I want.  I bought all the junk while I WAS living with my parents that I wanted.  Like my HDTV, my ps3, and surround sound, as well as various other electronics.  Almost all of my ps3 titles I have bought while living on my own the last couple years.  I must say this stack is increasingly big.  Another factor is I get 10% off to my electronics department, so it's $54 games.  Most of the games I really can't wait for I get at game stop for the full 60 though.  I must say $60 is disappointing to pay when you're spoiled on $50 titles from the ps2 like I was.  I understand higher technology, more people working, bigger games cost more money, but you can't change the fact that it saddens you to see hard earned money go away on a game you may not play all that much.  The good way to think about it is how much does entertainment cost?  I generally won't play a game if I won't play it at least 100 hours.  This equates out to 60 cents/hour.  How much do you spend for other adventures?  Amusement parks, concerts, sporting events, movies?  It's a pretty good deal.  The next best of course is Kcon which is a hoot and a half for a reasonable price.  Still paying that money makes me sad because I gotta thing of all that extra retail work I put in, all the douchebags, morons, and otherwise simpletons I had to deal with just to play something.  I'm pretty much on a rant at this point but let me sum up in 1 sentence.  I am open to any criticism/information/debat, I can deal with the price personally, I may not enjoy the price, but I have no strong feelings in any direction.


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Offline Cyprus

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2010, 07:01:55 am »
It's as simple as this. You all have your opinions, & that's fine. But I really don't care because it's not going to change mine(thus the reason it is MY opinion). Nor is any of it going to "enlighten" me to some unknown truth that I wasn't aware of. You don't have to like it, my perspective, or me for that matter...I promise I won't be heartbroken in the least bit.

why are you getting worked up over this discussion?
As I mentioned before...mere entertainment. My heart didn't speed up, my face didn't go red, I never lost the smile from my face. It's a way to make the day go by faster so I can go home.

I never said I completely understood you but I did say I understood you to a degree from your opinions.
How are you standing up to greed? Do you buy things? Do you work? Do you travel? Do you have the internet? Do you have electricity? If you answered yes to any of the above you're buying into a system perpetuating greed. Don't tell me you're above anything in this list. Don't make a generic statement asking more people to do something when you are part of the problem.
I happen to be an extremely generous person...but you would not know that unless you ACTUALLY knew me. Your right, it's sad that to live anywhere but a cardboard box in this world, somebodies greed is supported...& I never denied that. But I do what I can by donating & helping people in need...if I had more, I would give even more. This world needs more people to open their eyes as this guy did. Tell me that was an act of greed...go ahead.

Enjoy the rest of your discussion.

Offline Griff_the_dragoon

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #33 on: February 11, 2010, 03:49:11 pm »
why are you getting worked up over this discussion?
As I mentioned before...mere entertainment. My heart didn't speed up, my face didn't go red, I never lost the smile from my face. It's a way to make the day go by faster so I can go home.

Enjoy the rest of your discussion.
Good job Chris!

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Offline AllyKat

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #34 on: February 11, 2010, 06:45:03 pm »
FROM THIS POINT ON THE ARGUMENTATION OF ARGUMENTATION OR PERSONAL CRITIQUES WILL NOT BE TOLERATED ON THIS THREAD OR ANY OTHER FOR THAT MATTER

This has been addressed several times, we will not touch on it again, please keep discussion on
topic and in context as well as polite and appropriate.
______________________

So, if anyone had to give an estimate as to the budget of a average video game and the amount
of copies it would take to pay our game designers, editors, coders, testors and all the little people
it takes to make a game... What would be the price of an average game that would *not* seem
inflated? And who do you think really benefits from these prices? I know it's not stores like EB or
PlaynTrade (Playntrade specifically because I worked for them) I know they make maybe a a dollar
at most two dollars and normally closer to .98 cents on a new game when it sells, after shipping
costs even less. They make most of their money on used product.

It can't be programers and designers because while they make salaries of 75k a year on average
or 18/hr starting wage for some... thats still at par with the movie and television entertainment
industry, when they are making something. There is always the 2 years or sometimes even 8 years
where they product is in production they are making stippens, or barely anything and have to
make it through the hard months on past pay.

I don't know who rolls in the big dough on video games... It hasn't been made known to me. except
maybe a case for the ceo's and presidents of gaming companies... and even that I am not assured of,
Id softwares main techs and heads don't make as much as you'd think, and the leads of companies like
activision and Bethesda actually loose money most years, and make it back when they sell the company
to someone else.

~Allykat
2009 - Attendee
2010 - Facilities Liaison
2011 - Director of Publicity
2012 - Director of Publicity
2013 - Facilities Liaison
2014 - Vice Chair

Offline kylite

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #35 on: February 11, 2010, 09:52:50 pm »
I think the most interesting fact about video game economics stems from Pirates.

The reason I say this is the effort it takes to downlaod and properly install a pirated game limits this type of activity to a truely computer savvy person thus the amout of people who buy games from a legitimate vendor far outnumber those who get it from less then legal points of venue.

Please note I do not advocate this type of action and merely bring this up as part of this discussion.
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Offline DancingTofu

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2010, 05:47:12 am »
I think piracy is an important economic factor in the price point of gaming.  It all goes back to demand again though, because the supply curve is so elastic.  In a normal market, consumers have two options:

1. Demand the product at price $X
2. Don't get the product.

In a virtual industry like gaming, music, television, et cetera, you get a third option:

3. Demand the product for free (pirate it)

With some systems, piracy is easy.  For instance, almost anyone (let's say 60%) can pirate a PSP game.  But it's much harder with the 360 (let's put it at 10%).

So let's hypothetically release a game to the market.

Also, let's use these sales figures:
PSP = 55.9 million sold
360 = 39.0 million sold

And let's make another assumption here:
25% of people who own a 360 also own a PSP.
10% of all people who own these systems are interested in this game.

39,000,000 x 0.25 = 9,250,000 (number of people who own both a PSP and 360)
39,000,000 + 59,900,000 = 99,800,000 (total PSP and 360 sales combined)
99,800,000 - 9,250,000 = 90,550,000 (number of people who own a PSP and/or 360)
559/390 = 1.5359 (ratio of PSP owners to 360 owners)
90,550,000 x 0.1 = 9,055,000 (number of people interested in this game)

If x% people are interested in playing the game, y% of people demand the game at $n, and each copy of the game costs $m per copy to produce and publish, ignoring sunk costs, our formula for gross profit looks like so:
P = 9,055,000[n(x/100)(y/100)-m]

Now let's say for every $5 increase in price, 10% of consumers will not demand the game, and 5% of the people who would demand it but can pirate it will decide to pirate it, while 100% of the people who don't demand the game at its price point, but can pirate it for free, will do so.

At $0, 9,055,000 people (3,570,000 360 owners; 5,485,000 PSP owners) will demand the game, GP = $0

For PSP:
At $5, 10% of consumers will no longer demand the game.  60% of those 10% (329,100) will pirate the game.  Additionally, 30% of the remaining 90% (1,481,000) would choose to pirate the game instead of buying it.  The remaining 63% (3,456,000) would purchase the game for $5.  GP = 17,280,000

At $10, 19% (1,042,000) don't demand.  60% of 19% (625,300) pirate.  30% of 81% (1,080,000) pirate.  56.7% (3,110,000) purchase @ $10.  GP = 31,100,000 [[+13,820,000]]

At $15, 27% (1,481,000) don't demand.  60% of 27% (888,600) pirate.  30% of 73% (1,201,000) pirate.  51.1% (2,803,000) purchase @ $15.  GP = 42,050,000 [[+10,050,000]]
For 360

At $20, 34% (1,865,000) don't demand.  60% of 34% (1,119,000) pirate.  30% of 66% (1,086,000) pirate.  46.2% (2,534,000) purchase @ $20.  GP = 50,680,000 [[+8,630,000]]

At $25, 41% (2,249,000) don't demand.  60% of 41% (1,349,000) pirate.  30% of 59% (970,800) pirate.  41.3% (2,265,000) purchase @ $25.  GP = 56,630,000 [[+5,950,000]]

At $30, 47% (2,578,000) don't demand.  60% of 47% (1,547,000) pirate.  30% of 53% (872,100) pirate.  37.1% (2,035,000) purchase @ $30.  GP = 61,050,000 [[+4,420,000]]

At $35, 52% (2,852,000) don't demand.  60% of 52% (1,711,000) pirate.  30% of 48% (789,840) pirate.  37.1% (1,843,000) purchase @ $35.  GP = 64,500,000 [[+3,080,000]]

At $40, 57% (3,126,000) don't demand.  60% of 57% (1,876,000) pirate.  30% of 43% (707,600) pirate.  30.1% (1,651,000) purchase @ $40.  GP = 66,040,000 [[+1,460,000]]

At $45, 61% [61.3] (3,346,000) don't demand.  60% of 61% (2,008,000) pirate.  30% of 39% (641,700) pirate.  27.3% (1,497,000) purchase @ $45.  GP = 67,380,000 [[+1,240,000]]

At $50, 65% (3,565,000) don't demand.  60% of 65% (2,139,000) pirate.  30% of 35% (575,900) pirate.  24.5% (1,344,000) purchase @ $50.  GP = 67,190,000 [[-190,000]]

Thus, the MSRP would be set at $40-$45 for the PSP release.

However, for 360, we know that less people will be able to pirate the game, so we know that the 360 title can definitely be more expensive than the PSP version without losing consumers' interest.

Let's start it out at $55 then...

At $55, 69% don't demand.  10% of 69% pirate.  5% of 31% pirate.  29.45% (1,051,000) purchase @ $55.  GP = 57,830,000

At $60, 72% [71.8] don't demand.  10% of 72% pirate.  5% of 28% pirate.  26.6% (949,600) purchase @ $60.  GP = 56,980,000 [[-850,000]]

To be on the safe side, let's check where $50 would put us:

At $50, 65% don't demand.  10% of 65% pirate.  5% of 35% pirate.  33.25% (1,187,000) purchase @ $50.  GP = 59,350,000


Okay WTF.  Now I've managed to baffle myself with a mathematical error of some sort which I can't seem to identify.  Well anyway, point still stands: if it's easier to pirate, price point is lower.

The moral of this story: don't try to argue using lengthy mathematical sequences at 5 in the morning.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 05:48:17 am by DancingTofu »
moderators gonna moderate </shrug>

Offline Bresslol

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2010, 01:06:44 pm »
TOFU STOP DIVIDING BY ZERO.


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Offline DancingTofu

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2010, 05:15:03 pm »
I never divided by it just multiplied by it. :>
moderators gonna moderate </shrug>

Offline kylite

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2010, 07:29:53 pm »
Comcast ran a study
100 people were asked if they knew waht bit torrent was and if they used it
1 person said yes

so 1/100 of the web is pirates
the remainder are lawful lemmings.
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Offline dshwshr55

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2010, 07:30:30 pm »
Multiplying your figures by 0 doesn't get you anywhere! .. XD
... I mean, that's what you should tell the game industry.

Offline dshwshr55

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #41 on: February 12, 2010, 07:33:13 pm »
Comcast ran a study
100 people were asked if they knew waht bit torrent was and if they used it
1 person said yes

so 1/100 of the web is pirates
the remainder are lawful lemmings.

That's kind of funny. How many people just here in the forums know what bit torrent and piracy is?
Their study was probably asking people like my dad or other people who would try and do tofu's calculations on a slide rule.

Offline NARUNIK

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #42 on: February 12, 2010, 07:55:25 pm »
I lied to Comcast people twice when they asked.

Offline KogaRyu

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #43 on: February 13, 2010, 03:52:33 am »

Comcast ran a study
100 people were asked if they knew waht bit torrent was and if they used it
1 person said yes

so 1/100 of the web is pirates
the remainder are lawful lemmings.

That's kind of funny. How many people just here in the forums know what bit torrent and piracy is?
Their study was probably asking people like my dad or other people who would try and do tofu's calculations on a slide rule.


Thats the only way they could come up with a number like 1/100. The question was probably only asked to those that pay the bill, even then it seems a bit skewed towards an older generation.
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Offline ha~ma

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #44 on: February 13, 2010, 05:36:22 am »
I think the most interesting fact about video game economics stems from Pirates.

The reason I say this is the effort it takes to downlaod and properly install a pirated game limits this type of activity to a truely computer savvy person thus the amout of people who buy games from a legitimate vendor far outnumber those who get it from less then legal points of venue.

Please note I do not advocate this type of action and merely bring this up as part of this discussion.
Most pirates are morons. Don't tell me thepiratebay.org made the Alexa top 100 by savvy users alone (hint: if you have Alexa on your PC you aren't savvy).

Lol at the Comcast statistic. They take such a big brother approach to subscribers I don't see why they even bother with the survey.

For the record, I think piracy is appropriate when you already own a piece of software that requires a dongle / Synchrosoft key / whatever and you don't want to use it. I hate resource hog [Mod edit by JeffT: Removed inappropriate language] like that.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2010, 11:26:25 pm by JeffT »

Offline cloud-9

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #45 on: February 26, 2010, 09:34:20 pm »
not the games! what has the world come to>?  ::)

Offline AceLogan

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #46 on: February 27, 2010, 04:16:51 pm »
The Game Industry goes in cycles like this about every ten years. It's just the cycle is going higher this time due to the economy. I predict within five years prices will be back down to more reasonable rates as companies cut costs (and prices) to compete with each other. The game market is so over saturated with different incompatible consoles that it's not even funny.

The game companies also need to factor in MMO's too. A lot of these monthly fees are capturing casual gamers because it's cheaper (and unlimited play) then going out and getting the newest and greatest game that has no to little replay value.

Offline benjamin.riker@oit.edu

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #47 on: May 25, 2010, 11:56:36 am »
me and several of my friends are living on our own for the most part and on the whole we dont have a lot of money to throw around while going to college, the genneral feeling that alot of us have is that if a game is worth buying we will pay good money for it but unless there is a demo the only way to test out many computer games is to find some one that has it or to temporarily download a bit of software and try it out. if we like it we buy it if not well our pocket books our closed.
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Offline camname21

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #48 on: May 26, 2010, 01:09:16 am »
I lied to Comcast people twice when they asked.
This is why 20% (probably more) of polls are bad, or just in general..

Offline NARUNIK

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Re: The Economics of Gaming
« Reply #49 on: September 17, 2010, 09:20:10 pm »
Once FFVII remake comes the economy will be better.