Author Topic: HOW MANY SAIYUKI LOVERS ARE GOING TO BE AT KUMORICON  (Read 124296 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline anime_lover

  • Sailor Scout
  • **
  • Posts: 176
    • Deviantart
HOW MANY SAIYUKI LOVERS ARE GOING TO BE AT KUMORICON
« on: June 22, 2005, 02:18:06 am »
i wanna see how many are gonna be there hopefully lots!!!

Offline Sinaj

  • Chibi
  • ***
  • Posts: 218
HOW MANY SAIYUKI LOVERS ARE GOING TO BE AT KUMORICON
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2005, 09:06:59 am »
*Raises hand*

Me, me, me!!!!

Offline shadowfox

  • Catgirl
  • ****
  • Posts: 588
    • http://www.myspace.com/airotciv87
^.~
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2005, 03:09:22 pm »
*jumps around the forum room like an idiot* MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!! I LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIYUUUUUUUUUUUUUUKIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!!!!!
i am asthenophobic, Cleithrophobic, dinophobic, and geroscophobic.

 but i am NOT Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobic

Offline Seraph

  • Bunnygirl
  • *****
  • Posts: 3725
HOW MANY SAIYUKI LOVERS ARE GOING TO BE AT KUMORICON
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2005, 03:21:03 pm »
my....some very hyper people here...
"Hm, the Moe is strong with this one..."
Kylite-"You and your TV Tropes!"<Refering to This Troper's ruined voc

Offline shadowfox

  • Catgirl
  • ****
  • Posts: 588
    • http://www.myspace.com/airotciv87
^.~
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2005, 03:22:15 pm »
^///^ i just had breakfast ^///^ BUT yeah. its a very good show if you ever watched it ^_^
i am asthenophobic, Cleithrophobic, dinophobic, and geroscophobic.

 but i am NOT Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobic

Offline Seraph

  • Bunnygirl
  • *****
  • Posts: 3725
Re: ^.~
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2005, 03:23:43 pm »
Quote from: "shadowfox"
^///^ i just had breakfast ^///^ BUT yeah. its a very good show if you ever watched it ^_^


yes, its quite very funny.
"Hm, the Moe is strong with this one..."
Kylite-"You and your TV Tropes!"<Refering to This Troper's ruined voc

Offline Panda0_0

  • Catgirl
  • ****
  • Posts: 605
HOW MANY SAIYUKI LOVERS ARE GOING TO BE AT KUMORICON
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2005, 03:28:19 pm »
never seen it :P

Who are you? Whats your name? SUPER BROTHERS!

Offline Keyta-Kun

  • Catgirl
  • ****
  • Posts: 446
Sanzo is miiiiiiiine...*evil grin*
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2005, 03:53:57 pm »
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII'MMMMMMMMMMMMM GOOOOOOOOOOIIIINNNNNNGGG!!
Do you know who I think I am?

Anonymous

  • Guest
HOW MANY SAIYUKI LOVERS ARE GOING TO BE AT KUMORICON
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2005, 05:28:06 pm »
i still dont know who i am gonna cosplay as...maybe kougaji..but im a girl so maybe houlan from the movie..but i dont know yet..i would like to do kougaji even though he is a guy...but blah..anyways yea the show rocks...i have seen all of it including gunlock of course i own it in japanese...but i understand most of it...

Offline anime_lover

  • Sailor Scout
  • **
  • Posts: 176
    • Deviantart
HOW MANY SAIYUKI LOVERS ARE GOING TO BE AT KUMORICON
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2005, 05:29:08 pm »
Quote from: "Anonymous"
i still dont know who i am gonna cosplay as...maybe kougaji..but im a girl so maybe houlan from the movie..but i dont know yet..i would like to do kougaji even though he is a guy...but blah..anyways yea the show rocks...i have seen all of it including gunlock of course i own it in japanese...but i understand most of it...


sorry i dont know why i didnt post online but thats me...*points up*

Offline Keyta-Kun

  • Catgirl
  • ****
  • Posts: 446
auuuuuuuuggghhh I dunno what to dooooooo *cries*
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2005, 06:52:28 am »
*points up* ^_^  that is so cool!! XD  I'd LOVE to watch 'em all now...I'm so impatient... ^_^;;  I found complete sets of reload and gunlock that's subtitled...am sooooooooo tempted to buy it... *hand twitches over mouse to confirm bid*
Do you know who I think I am?

Offline MistressLegato

  • Catgirl
  • ****
  • Posts: 571
    • http://mistresslegato.deviantart.com
HOW MANY SAIYUKI LOVERS ARE GOING TO BE AT KUMORICON
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2005, 12:23:24 pm »
ME!  Gensoumaden Saiyuki!  Kazuya Minekura is my GOD!
Demon nurse, la la lalalalalalala, Demon Nurse . . .

Offline shadowfox

  • Catgirl
  • ****
  • Posts: 588
    • http://www.myspace.com/airotciv87
^.~
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2005, 06:04:50 pm »
good artist, good artist ^_^ *drool at picys*
i am asthenophobic, Cleithrophobic, dinophobic, and geroscophobic.

 but i am NOT Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobic

Offline Mei Long

  • Bunnygirl
  • *****
  • Posts: 1003
HOW MANY SAIYUKI LOVERS ARE GOING TO BE AT KUMORICON
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2005, 10:58:46 pm »
Quote from: "MistressLegato"
ME!  Gensoumaden Saiyuki!  Kazuya Minekura is my GOD!


SAME HERE!!!  :D
hello, i am a saiyuki fan as well (actually, that's an underestimation... i'm more like dependant upon it for air!!!).  :wink:
i'll be going to the con as Hakkai from reload... gee, my post seems rather asleep after reading all the hyper "meeee!!!!"
hmmmm.... probably cause i need sleep... (too many late night forum posts) x_____x;;;;

but saiyuki talks worth it!!!  :D
Montez Bailey, 1988 - 2009, we miss you, rest in peace.

!~~~No Kumoricon for me. See ya'll at Akicon 2011~~~!

Akicon 2011 Costumes: Genderbent Kim Pine, Marshall Lee

2012: YoYo, Czeslaw, ???

Offline Keyta-Kun

  • Catgirl
  • ****
  • Posts: 446
zzzzzz...mumble mumble...damn cat...zzzzz
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2005, 06:02:47 am »
@ Mei Long

We're sooooo alike it's scary... :shock:
Do you know who I think I am?

Offline Mei Long

  • Bunnygirl
  • *****
  • Posts: 1003
Re: zzzzzz...mumble mumble...damn cat...zzzzz
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2005, 09:34:48 am »
Quote from: "Keyta-Kun"
@ Mei Long

We're sooooo alike it's scary... :shock:


hahaha, Keyta-Kun, maybe we knew each other in a past life or something say... 5oo yrs. ago?  :wink:
Montez Bailey, 1988 - 2009, we miss you, rest in peace.

!~~~No Kumoricon for me. See ya'll at Akicon 2011~~~!

Akicon 2011 Costumes: Genderbent Kim Pine, Marshall Lee

2012: YoYo, Czeslaw, ???

Offline Keyta-Kun

  • Catgirl
  • ****
  • Posts: 446
somethings you shouldn't think about...
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2005, 11:12:58 am »
Cool...you know...I wonder if I was a guy or a girl?  :?   Wonder if I was hot too?  Wonder how old I was when I died...how did I die...was I rich?  or powerful?  If I got married, had kids...or maaaaaybeee... *mumble, mumble*
Do you know who I think I am?

Offline shadowfox

  • Catgirl
  • ****
  • Posts: 588
    • http://www.myspace.com/airotciv87
HOW MANY SAIYUKI LOVERS ARE GOING TO BE AT KUMORICON
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2005, 12:13:48 pm »
you were a rich and powerful guy (ok, ok you were hot ^_^you looked like sanzo) who was part of the japanese mafia.  you were very rich, had all the women you wanted, but you had many children that you didn't know were yours.  but you died at a very young age considering your job ^_^;;;...ok i'm weird ^_^;;;

oh yeah...mei long, you looked like hakkai YAY *glomps you*
i am asthenophobic, Cleithrophobic, dinophobic, and geroscophobic.

 but i am NOT Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobic

Offline Keyta-Kun

  • Catgirl
  • ****
  • Posts: 446
HOW MANY SAIYUKI LOVERS ARE GOING TO BE AT KUMORICON
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2005, 12:24:01 pm »
sweeeeet. ^_^
Do you know who I think I am?

Offline Mei Long

  • Bunnygirl
  • *****
  • Posts: 1003
HOW MANY SAIYUKI LOVERS ARE GOING TO BE AT KUMORICON
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2005, 02:37:55 pm »
Quote from: "shadowfox"

oh yeah...mei long, you looked like hakkai YAY *glomps you*


arigatou!!!!! that has to be the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me!!!!  :D to even remotely resemble hakkai would be amazing... and then to find SANZO!!!! x____x

shadowfox, what was your past life? i mean, you had to be there... otherwise.... you wouldn't be here... now, talking about it... like you were there... cause you were... *goes on and on and on...*
Montez Bailey, 1988 - 2009, we miss you, rest in peace.

!~~~No Kumoricon for me. See ya'll at Akicon 2011~~~!

Akicon 2011 Costumes: Genderbent Kim Pine, Marshall Lee

2012: YoYo, Czeslaw, ???

Offline shadowfox

  • Catgirl
  • ****
  • Posts: 588
    • http://www.myspace.com/airotciv87
^.~
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2005, 04:08:07 pm »
i cant have a past life if i never died ^_^ i'm REEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAALLYYYYY OOOOOOOOOOOOLD ^_^....just kidding ^_^, i'm just the average-small-town-girl-who-just-likes-looking-for-adventure ^_^ nothing really big ^_^ i dont like standing out ^_^
i am asthenophobic, Cleithrophobic, dinophobic, and geroscophobic.

 but i am NOT Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobic

Offline Keyta-Kun

  • Catgirl
  • ****
  • Posts: 446
AAAaaaawwww shoooooo cuuuute
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2005, 04:17:54 pm »
@ Shadowfox

Mmmm and you didn't find much adventure so you just settled down and a million and one kids en-it?  :P
Do you know who I think I am?

Offline shadowfox

  • Catgirl
  • ****
  • Posts: 588
    • http://www.myspace.com/airotciv87
^.~
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2005, 04:19:34 pm »
um...no ^_^ kids aren't my thing...didn't you say you'll be married within 6 years ^_^ thats kinda freaky when you say things like that ^_^;;;
i am asthenophobic, Cleithrophobic, dinophobic, and geroscophobic.

 but i am NOT Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobic

Offline Keyta-Kun

  • Catgirl
  • ****
  • Posts: 446
predictions can come true...o__O
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2005, 04:22:05 pm »
You know you're going to get married within 5 years... and btw it's down to 4 years now. T_T T_T
Do you know who I think I am?

Offline shadowfox

  • Catgirl
  • ****
  • Posts: 588
    • http://www.myspace.com/airotciv87
^.~
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2005, 04:26:28 pm »
T_T dream on, i'm not ready to settle down T_T too much to do, to much to see ^_^ besides, no one can stand me ^_^no one's BRAVE ENOUGH!!! MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!  :twisted:
i am asthenophobic, Cleithrophobic, dinophobic, and geroscophobic.

 but i am NOT Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobic

Offline MistressLegato

  • Catgirl
  • ****
  • Posts: 571
    • http://mistresslegato.deviantart.com
HOW MANY SAIYUKI LOVERS ARE GOING TO BE AT KUMORICON
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2005, 04:45:51 pm »
@Mei

Oh man!  You have to read Wild Adapter!  You'd loooove it!!!  Araiso is the cute side story for it!
Demon nurse, la la lalalalalalala, Demon Nurse . . .

Offline Mei Long

  • Bunnygirl
  • *****
  • Posts: 1003
HOW MANY SAIYUKI LOVERS ARE GOING TO BE AT KUMORICON
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2005, 05:10:03 pm »
Quote from: "MistressLegato"
@Mei

Oh man!  You have to read Wild Adapter!  You'd loooove it!!!  Araiso is the cute side story for it!


I've seen the art for it and i was practically drooling... just dont know how i'd get my hands on it... T___T
Montez Bailey, 1988 - 2009, we miss you, rest in peace.

!~~~No Kumoricon for me. See ya'll at Akicon 2011~~~!

Akicon 2011 Costumes: Genderbent Kim Pine, Marshall Lee

2012: YoYo, Czeslaw, ???

Offline shadowfox

  • Catgirl
  • ****
  • Posts: 588
    • http://www.myspace.com/airotciv87
^.~
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2005, 05:42:18 pm »
T_T yet, i have no clue what the heck you guys are sayin' ^_^;;; whats so good about it ^_^ eh...oh well *drinks tea and nibbles on pocky*
i am asthenophobic, Cleithrophobic, dinophobic, and geroscophobic.

 but i am NOT Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobic

Offline Mei Long

  • Bunnygirl
  • *****
  • Posts: 1003
Re: ^.~
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2005, 06:46:39 pm »
Quote from: "shadowfox"
T_T yet, i have no clue what the heck you guys are sayin' ^_^;;; whats so good about it ^_^ eh...oh well *drinks tea and nibbles on pocky*

minekura also has something else called Wild Adapter, and all i know about wild adapter is the art and minekura's art always rocks!!!
^^;; sorry, i really dont know much else.
Montez Bailey, 1988 - 2009, we miss you, rest in peace.

!~~~No Kumoricon for me. See ya'll at Akicon 2011~~~!

Akicon 2011 Costumes: Genderbent Kim Pine, Marshall Lee

2012: YoYo, Czeslaw, ???

Offline Keyta-Kun

  • Catgirl
  • ****
  • Posts: 446
I like swimming
« Reply #29 on: June 30, 2005, 08:08:46 am »
Yeah, en-it!! XD XD Got literally all her artbooks, and I LOVE em to death.  Wonder if Wild Adapter is ever going to be translated. ^^  Either that or I could learn Japanese.
Do you know who I think I am?

Offline Sinaj

  • Chibi
  • ***
  • Posts: 218
HOW MANY SAIYUKI LOVERS ARE GOING TO BE AT KUMORICON
« Reply #30 on: June 30, 2005, 08:55:51 am »
Bus Gamer is pretty good too. Rather odd storyline (Bus is short for "business) but good nonetheless.

BTW Reload 3 came out on the 28th and it is really good! The demon Sanzo episode was a RIOT!!! Not to mention it shows the Sanzo party in a sauna (towels only, *wicked grin*), and in these cute little blue short/shirt combos. I definately have to make some animated gifs out of some of those scenes! WOO HOO!

Offline Keyta-Kun

  • Catgirl
  • ****
  • Posts: 446
^///^
« Reply #31 on: June 30, 2005, 11:33:03 am »
OH I knooowwww!!!!! XD XD XD  I love that fan service episode.  Lots of skin.  *dirty thoughts*
Do you know who I think I am?

Offline shadowfox

  • Catgirl
  • ****
  • Posts: 588
    • http://www.myspace.com/airotciv87
^.~
« Reply #32 on: June 30, 2005, 12:39:42 pm »
about bus gamer, i heard of that one, but does anyone know when it comes out???
i am asthenophobic, Cleithrophobic, dinophobic, and geroscophobic.

 but i am NOT Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobic

Offline Mei Long

  • Bunnygirl
  • *****
  • Posts: 1003
HOW MANY SAIYUKI LOVERS ARE GOING TO BE AT KUMORICON
« Reply #33 on: June 30, 2005, 02:06:41 pm »
Quote from: "Sinaj"
Bus Gamer is pretty good too. Rather odd storyline (Bus is short for "business) but good nonetheless.

BTW Reload 3 came out on the 28th and it is really good! The demon Sanzo episode was a RIOT!!! Not to mention it shows the Sanzo party in a sauna (towels only, *wicked grin*), and in these cute little blue short/shirt combos. I definately have to make some animated gifs out of some of those scenes! WOO HOO!


aw man, reload... demon sanzo... shirtless ikkou... *___*
that is what i live for, for not minekura and fan service i would not find the motivation to breathe.
Montez Bailey, 1988 - 2009, we miss you, rest in peace.

!~~~No Kumoricon for me. See ya'll at Akicon 2011~~~!

Akicon 2011 Costumes: Genderbent Kim Pine, Marshall Lee

2012: YoYo, Czeslaw, ???

Offline Keyta-Kun

  • Catgirl
  • ****
  • Posts: 446
wet t-shirt contest of the guys would be nice...
« Reply #34 on: June 30, 2005, 04:29:25 pm »
Poor poor baby...may Minekura forever provide us fangirls with gratuitous fanservice and yummy artwork.  *salutes her*
Do you know who I think I am?

Offline Mei Long

  • Bunnygirl
  • *****
  • Posts: 1003
Re: wet t-shirt contest of the guys would be nice...
« Reply #35 on: June 30, 2005, 05:07:43 pm »
Quote from: "Keyta-Kun"
Poor poor baby...may Minekura forever provide us fangirls with gratuitous fanservice and yummy artwork.  *salutes her*


*salute!* :-)
Montez Bailey, 1988 - 2009, we miss you, rest in peace.

!~~~No Kumoricon for me. See ya'll at Akicon 2011~~~!

Akicon 2011 Costumes: Genderbent Kim Pine, Marshall Lee

2012: YoYo, Czeslaw, ???

Offline Sinaj

  • Chibi
  • ***
  • Posts: 218
HOW MANY SAIYUKI LOVERS ARE GOING TO BE AT KUMORICON
« Reply #36 on: June 30, 2005, 07:27:56 pm »
*salutes and toasts her*

And I'm not sure about Bus Gamer, but I'll try to find out.

Anonymous

  • Guest
HOW MANY SAIYUKI LOVERS ARE GOING TO BE AT KUMORICON
« Reply #37 on: June 30, 2005, 08:31:46 pm »
i really enjoyed reload and gunlock but im not enjoying the fact adv is not doing the dubbing anymore T.T it isnt fair especially since some of the episodes it would just be histerical to hear the voices of the original dubbing

Offline anime_lover

  • Sailor Scout
  • **
  • Posts: 176
    • Deviantart
HOW MANY SAIYUKI LOVERS ARE GOING TO BE AT KUMORICON
« Reply #38 on: June 30, 2005, 08:33:07 pm »
Quote from: "Anonymous"
i really enjoyed reload and gunlock but im not enjoying the fact adv is not doing the dubbing anymore T.T it isnt fair especially since some of the episodes it would just be histerical to hear the voices of the original dubbing


oh my...i did it again...i need to start checking to see if im online when i post lol..heh heh..^-^'

Offline Sinaj

  • Chibi
  • ***
  • Posts: 218
HOW MANY SAIYUKI LOVERS ARE GOING TO BE AT KUMORICON
« Reply #39 on: July 01, 2005, 09:02:15 am »
Yeah, I miss all our favorite voice actors as well. I would have loved to have seen the episode about Sanzo and the kitten with their voices. OMG that would have been great!

Offline Keyta-Kun

  • Catgirl
  • ****
  • Posts: 446
Oh shooo cuuuute!!! XD
« Reply #40 on: July 01, 2005, 09:51:48 am »
Oh HELL YEAH!! XD XD XD I wouldn've liked to have heard David shooeing away the cat and sneezing too!! XD
Do you know who I think I am?

Offline anime_lover

  • Sailor Scout
  • **
  • Posts: 176
    • Deviantart
HOW MANY SAIYUKI LOVERS ARE GOING TO BE AT KUMORICON
« Reply #41 on: July 01, 2005, 10:39:00 am »
yes that would have been awsome..also the episode where hakkai leaves...that would be histerical or the demon sanzo episode...then of course there are also the reload theater's

Offline Keyta-Kun

  • Catgirl
  • ****
  • Posts: 446
so long my love...
« Reply #42 on: July 01, 2005, 10:51:48 am »
OH yeah, those would've been awsome!!! XD XD  GOD, I miss the original voices...T_T
Do you know who I think I am?

Offline anime_lover

  • Sailor Scout
  • **
  • Posts: 176
    • Deviantart
HOW MANY SAIYUKI LOVERS ARE GOING TO BE AT KUMORICON
« Reply #43 on: July 01, 2005, 11:21:37 am »
i just cant imagine some of them..it would be hilarious...like the one where goku and gojyo brake sanzo's gun..lol..or the spring roll one's lol...

Offline anime_lover

  • Sailor Scout
  • **
  • Posts: 176
    • Deviantart
HOW MANY SAIYUKI LOVERS ARE GOING TO BE AT KUMORICON
« Reply #44 on: July 01, 2005, 11:22:21 am »
Quote from: "anime_lover"
i just cant imagine some of them..it would be hilarious...like the one where goku and gojyo brake sanzo's gun..lol..or the spring roll one's lol...


or the one that is my avatar..lol

Offline Keyta-Kun

  • Catgirl
  • ****
  • Posts: 446
arewethereyet? it's a cool website, check it out! ~_^
« Reply #45 on: July 01, 2005, 11:30:43 am »
OMG!!  That would be hilarious!!! XD XD  How about the Christmas one?  Or the the one where Goku takes Hakkai's demon limiter off?  Where did you get your avatar anyway, it's cool!! ^^
Do you know who I think I am?

Offline Mei Long

  • Bunnygirl
  • *****
  • Posts: 1003
HOW MANY SAIYUKI LOVERS ARE GOING TO BE AT KUMORICON
« Reply #46 on: July 01, 2005, 11:58:57 am »
i'm supposing your talking about reload, i havn't seen it yet, so all i know are the voices from the first series. ^^;;;
Montez Bailey, 1988 - 2009, we miss you, rest in peace.

!~~~No Kumoricon for me. See ya'll at Akicon 2011~~~!

Akicon 2011 Costumes: Genderbent Kim Pine, Marshall Lee

2012: YoYo, Czeslaw, ???

Offline Keyta-Kun

  • Catgirl
  • ****
  • Posts: 446
the love(s) of my voice actor life...gone...*weep*
« Reply #47 on: July 01, 2005, 12:09:35 pm »
@ Mei

Oh yeah, you HAVE to see Reload, they're pretty funny!! XD  Even if they don't have the first series' Voices...T_T I've been mainly watching it in Japanese, due to the fact I can't really get used to the new VA's.  T_T  I miss you David, Illich, Braden, and Greg...T_T  *starts crying and collapses on the floor*
Do you know who I think I am?

Offline anime_lover

  • Sailor Scout
  • **
  • Posts: 176
    • Deviantart
HOW MANY SAIYUKI LOVERS ARE GOING TO BE AT KUMORICON
« Reply #48 on: July 01, 2005, 12:27:05 pm »
i feel the same as you...and i own reload in japanese although ive said that a thousand times i mean it isnt the best but personally i think it is better then the new english

Offline Mei Long

  • Bunnygirl
  • *****
  • Posts: 1003
HOW MANY SAIYUKI LOVERS ARE GOING TO BE AT KUMORICON
« Reply #49 on: July 01, 2005, 12:32:38 pm »
aw man, the thought of hakkai not having his voice (the one i'm used to) makes me sad... AND SANZO!!!!!!!!!!! *goes off crying*
Montez Bailey, 1988 - 2009, we miss you, rest in peace.

!~~~No Kumoricon for me. See ya'll at Akicon 2011~~~!

Akicon 2011 Costumes: Genderbent Kim Pine, Marshall Lee

2012: YoYo, Czeslaw, ???