Author Topic: 2010 AMV Contest Rules and Categories Discussion!  (Read 4408 times)

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Offline Prinz Eugen

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2010 AMV Contest Rules and Categories Discussion!
« on: October 26, 2009, 06:44:42 AM »
OKAY GANG, Here we go Again!

What categories do we want for next year?
Comments about last year?

My initial thoughts:

- 'Tension' didn't elicit the kinds of AMVs we were looking for. The judges tried to fill the category with 'something,' but they didn't have a great selection that fit well. They were free to close the category but they did not choose to do so.

- 'Retro' was extremely popular with editors and we got so many GOOD entries that some of those were selected to run in other categories (eg, action, trailers) and they performed well there.

- This year's panel also suggested to me that I split up 'Action' and 'Effects' as two distinct categories. I agree, and I'm considering dropping 'Tension' and running 'Action' instead.

Other things for folks to ponder and discuss:  I usually get a 3 or 3 1/2 hour chunk of time. I like to have a Pre-Show, a Contest, and a Show, with a Pre-show for specially selected runner-ups, and a Show, for exhibition entries (Some people send me things but instruct me that they are *not* contest entries) and other foundling gems on the 'net that I accumulate over the year.

That said, how large of a chunk should be taken up by the contest? I usually figure 75 - 100 minutes. This includes the contest opener, category openers, and review clips. Other observations to consider: The max duration is 4min 40sec, but can be waived (rarely) by the judges for a work that holds a longer story, plot, or theme together, introducing NEW material or otherwise mainitaing a level of intensity and entertainment throughout.

Trailer type projects tend to be only 90sec to  2min 30sec long.

Drama - which we didn't have this year - always tend to be at least 4min long
 And many of them are excruciatingly SLOW and make tempting TARGETS for elimination:



Your comments?

PS, off-topic (Yes I am saving for a 20mm and I hope I can get the ATF paperwork filed and cleared before O-dumbo screws around with gun laws... watch for another thread about that elsewhere. TCL feel free to help me with your thoughts.)





« Last Edit: October 26, 2009, 08:27:39 PM by Prinz Eugen »

Offline murder_of_raven

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Re: 2010 AMV Contest Rules and Categories Discussion!
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2009, 09:14:51 PM »
I think splitting Action and Effects into 2 categories is an excellent idea, they are probably the two most popular non-comedy genres and quite honestly sometimes an AMV will get played that is almost completely one or the other and then suddenly it becomes very difficult for me as a voter to decide whether I should elect the "best action" or the "best effects". Also, as a creator it gives us more room to move around in, for example, my submission that didn't get played at all would've been a good fit for Action but used hardly any Effects. On the other hand, I have an Effects video I want to make this year that will be fairly awesome (or at least I'll try) but not very action-y. In short: Yes, this idea has my vote.

And also: as the totally unbiased winner of last year's Retro category, please keep it around :D. Also, if you get enough entries you might want to consider splitting Comedy and Offbeat and giving them priority over the other categories, by far they are the stars of the show and even a "fairly good" entry in either of those seems to be more well received than a very good drama video. Then again, everybody hates on the drama videos XD. (In my personal opinion, drama takes more previous knowledge of a series than any other genre to be enjoyable and quite frankly, you can't count on more than 50% of your audience having seen the series. A personal example: one of my favorite of my videos is also dead last in my ratings on AMV.org, lower than the really crappy romantic-comedy video that was my first stab at AMVs, made with WMM. Go figure.)

Offline Prinz Eugen

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Retro Category
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2009, 10:37:45 PM »
Many indicies point to Retro being a 'keeper' category for 2010.

Any ideas about how we should define it this time?

Last year's had FOUR constraints - pick TWO.
I won't repeat them here because I want to invite people to
discuss this with a clean slate.

Offline somanyturtles

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Re: 2010 AMV Contest Rules and Categories Discussion!
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2009, 01:06:30 PM »
I say we keep the Tension category. I'm not sure what excatally you had in mind when creating it but the way i see it its a good way to possibly keep the momentum of the contest going. It's been said in many posts (on this forum and others) that everyone finds "Drama" a boring category. Hell i've nodded off for parts of some of the videos, im not proud of it but its happened. I personaly feel like "Tension" emcompasses a wider variety of videos unfortunalty that in that spectrum lies "Emo" and "Agnst". It basically comes down to the AMV creator to make a video that doesn't use slow clips and a sappy song. I'm planning on a video that would be "Tenson" or "Drama" thats using a "Rock/Hip-hop" song with some fast paced clips.

Totally agreed on splitting action and effects. There were some videos that I felt were just full of cool effects but were actually pretty slow to be considered "Action."

There's one thing i just wanna throw out there for consideration. The "One video of an anime per category" rule. It's a good idea so we're not watching the same basic video twice I.E. the Sakuracon 2009 back to back Drama FFVIIAC videos, but i think there could be a revision to it stating that if the two videos in question are completly different they both can be allowed in. CAse in point Misa Regretting What Misa Said and Yag Si Thgil. I may be bias considering that I'm in the same Studio as TCL but i kinda felt like the audience was robbed out of a great video. Something to ponder.



Offline Prinz Eugen

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Re: 2010 AMV Contest Rules and Categories Discussion!
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2009, 01:26:39 PM »
Thanks for the comments - and keep 'em coming!

Incidentally, I'd like to get the 'official' rules up by mid- to end- of December,
so we all have an idea of the time fram we have for discussions, consensus, etc.

Next question here:
Quote
I'm planning on a video that would be "Tenson" or "Drama" that's using a "Rock/Hip-hop" song with some fast paced clips.
So, how is that different from an 'Action' entry, and how would the category definitions define the difference clearly enough for judges and creators to know what to do? Any ideas?

- GLL

Offline murder_of_raven

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Re: Retro Category
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2009, 01:31:21 PM »
Many indicies point to Retro being a 'keeper' category for 2010.

Any ideas about how we should define it this time?

Last year's had FOUR constraints - pick TWO.
I won't repeat them here because I want to invite people to
discuss this with a clean slate.


Oh I am sooo glad you brought this up. In fact, I have thought quite a lot about this. I feel like the "Four constraints- pick TWO" is a great idea but it was sort of flawed because one of the four was practically unusable and the other three sort of emphasized the wrong things in my opinion. Rather than explain in detail the thought-process that led me to them, I've decided to instead just provide ideas for a new set of four and we can just sort of go from there:
(1) All video content was released in Japan before 19__; in my opinion "__" should be '95 as that puts the entire category before the "Evangelion revitalization of anime" which is arguably the beginning of contemporary anime. And if you watch something from '94 and then something from '96 (or Evangelion) the quality jump is almost always obvious.
(2) The entire video is in black and white or sepia, things like scratches and hairs are a good addition; this one has been directly carried over as I think it's fairly flawless for the category.
(3) All of the source material was originally black and white; allowing for I Love Lucy style "colorization" of old anime, which I think remains in the spirit of #2.
(4) The music one... I am still unsure how to deal with this one. I think that perhaps rather than having two separate rules for audio and video sources we should have one rule stating that one or the other should be made before 1985 or such, because I think the old rules felt constricting rather than inspiring and there's a lot of new music that sounds/feels Retro. It's practically a genre at this point.
(5) A video short in the style of a silent film with classical music; I think that this cool produce some really great submissions and by making it one of the constraints it gives creators interested in making one more freedom, considering it's already a pretty constricting idea.
(6) Using the concept "Retro" in a creative visual way, such as the use of projectors, film tape, etc; In this way Nostromo's "Running Man" fits the category and honestly I felt it was more "Retro" than a lot of the Retro submissions (such as the very good Trigun one)

Obviously that's more than 4 and I'm not sure offering 6 is a good idea... I think that 3 constraints that solidly expressed the feeling of the category without feeling overly constrictive would be ideal.

Offline murder_of_raven

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Re: 2010 AMV Contest Rules and Categories Discussion!
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2009, 01:32:17 PM »
So, how is that different from an 'Action' entry

I was just about to post that; it sure sounded like an Action entry to me. :D

Offline Prinz Eugen

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Re: 2010 AMV Contest Rules and Categories Discussion!
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2009, 01:43:03 PM »
Quote from: somanyturtles
There's one thing i just wanna throw out there for consideration. The "One video of an anime per category" rule. It's a good idea so we're not watching the same basic video twice I.E. the Sakuracon 2009 back to back Drama FFVIIAC videos,
The beneficial effect of the 'one video of an anime per category' rule (which, like all other rules the judges may over-ride if and as they see fit) - is that it gently throttles down over-hyped series like (currently) FMA, DN, Naruto, TTGL, (and in earlier years: Eva, Trigun, C-Bebop, DBZ) to free up some breathing room for some of the newer shows just popping out, or under-the-radar sleepers (maybe Baccano?)

Same goes for the one audio source once per CONTEST guideline, which usually only crops up in the Trailers category if over the course of a year, all but one or three recently released movies FAIL.

Again though, the judges may make exceptions as they see fit. This bunch didn't this last time around.

Quote
FFVIIAC
Always makes me think someone needs to spoof out on 'Advent' by doing a 'Lenten Children' project. Or a digitally animated 3D Advent calendar with all the little doors you open as each day passes, except you get anime shows in them...
« Last Edit: October 27, 2009, 01:45:57 PM by Prinz Eugen »

Offline superjaz

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Re: 2010 AMV Contest Rules and Categories Discussion!
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2009, 03:59:38 PM »
I have always thought a "promo" section, like for threater trailers or tv show opening credits
superjaz, that is jaz with one z count um ONE z!
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Offline somanyturtles

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Re: 2010 AMV Contest Rules and Categories Discussion!
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2009, 02:27:39 AM »
Thanks for the comments - and keep 'em coming!

Next question here:
Quote
I'm planning on a video that would be "Tenson" or "Drama" that's using a "Rock/Hip-hop" song with some fast paced clips.
So, how is that different from an 'Action' entry, and how would the category definitions define the difference clearly enough for judges and creators to know what to do? Any ideas?

- GLL

The basic premiss of the video is a rivalry between a group friends that escallates to being far past "Friendly" and the song im using is slower untill the chours which hits pretty darn hard. So if the video works as i plan it to, the slower parts of the song will be showing the friendship unraveling to the screaming hatred part when the chours hits and then back down when the chours ends.

It's not gonna be "Drgonfoce Fast" going a million miles per hour but it's also not gonna be "Celine Dion slow" causing people to fall asleep in their seats. Basically what im trying to say is that it is possible to have Drama and Tension while people are yelling and animated rather than super sad because Sephieroth fragged Aeris and Cloud can't live without her and Tifa is sad cuz Cloud isn't paying attention to her.


As for defineing the difference between action and tension, the way i see it is "action" is generally fast paced with effects thats suppose to get your blood pumping where "Tension" should envoke an emotion like sadness, hatred, or fear.

Offline Prinz Eugen

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Tension - what is it?
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2009, 12:27:02 PM »
Quote from: somanyturtles
As for defineng the difference between action and tension, the way i see it is "action" is generally fast paced with effects that get your blood pumping where "Tension" should evoke an emotion like sadness, hatred, or fear.
The other aspect of 'Tension' that I really had wanted (but maybe didn't know how to ask the right questions) is TENSE - just like a rope stretched taut.

Like in a disaster movie - it has to start off 'normal, ho-hum' anyways, but if the movie is called 'The Towering Inferno,' or 'The Lusitania,' or 'The Day it Blew 231mph Atop Mt. Washington,' you are waiting tensely. That's totally cool - just like getting hauled clinkety-clinkety-clink up the roller coaster, dreading that BIG DROP. Perfect, because you know you are headed for it and it's too late NOT to have taken the ride. The 'ho-hum' beginning can create tension because the movie title tells you something the characters cannot know of, or cannot prevent once they find out, is fated to happen.

So SMTs idea can work: 'watch how something little gets totally out of control later' - and you have to WAIT for it - especially if you're hanging onto one or a few little hints that something MAJOR is gonna hit the fan - but you just don't know WHAT or HOW BIG.

You want the audience to be HANGING on what's gonna happen NEXT. The ticking-down time bomb might work, or a 'Fail Safe' situation: You have just launched a devastating attack which you feel is totally justified - but before it hits, you discover NEW, IMPORTANT information which makes you need to POSSIBLY CANCEL the attack. Or at least strongly consider it, then play mind games with yourself as you try to figure out what's really going on. Is the countervailing information real, or an enemy's ruse? What if you're wrong?

And all the while, the slipping opportunity to neutralize the outgoing warheads, or call back the ships or pilots  ... tick ... tick ... "Two minutes to Fail Safe, Mr. President."

So how do we screen in those 'Holy cr** I just GOTTA get this done right or DIE' emotions, or 'ok this this got twisted - now how WRONG can it get' story, while (as SMT also hilariously illustrates) screening out the 'My girrffrend dumped me and likes this other guy better whaa whaa whaa' crud?


« Last Edit: October 28, 2009, 01:40:45 PM by Prinz Eugen »

Offline murder_of_raven

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Re: Tension - what is it?
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2009, 01:29:09 PM »
The other aspect of 'Tension' that I really had wanted (but maybe didn't know how to ask the right questions) is TENSE - just like a rope stretched taut.

That's essentially my problem with the idea behind this category: you are describing exactly one video. Even if we could get 3-5 awesome, perfect examples of tension, one right after another like that would cheapen all of them. There's a reason classic theater has comic relief, after all. I think we're best off splitting into "action" and "special effects" and then assuming that any "tension" worth its playtime would make adequate use of one or the other. Honestly I'm not sure how you couldn't, SMT's video for example might not be the classic "no lyric techno-rock synced to disconnected fight scenes" action, but I think 90% of the audience finds those videos almost as boring as the drama category. A video doesn't have to be all action all the time to be effective, take the very famous Evangelion "Engel" video for example (link for people who don't know what I'm talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZKq1HqZuvw.

Offline murder_of_raven

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Re: 2010 AMV Contest Rules and Categories Discussion!
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2009, 01:35:33 PM »
And just so they don't feel like everybody is ignoring them:

I have always thought a "promo" section, like for threater trailers or tv show opening credits

I believe that that's the technical definition of our "Trailers" category-- you don't see OPs very often but I am 99% sure they're specifically allowed by the rules, as are commercials. However, it's really just a lot easier to make a good trailer than either of the other two so you don't see them very often (although there are a few notable exceptions, and this trend doesn't carry over to Japanese AMVs, aka "MADs")

Offline Prinz Eugen

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Re: 2010 AMV Contest Rules and Categories Discussion!
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2009, 01:54:18 PM »
Quote from: murder_of_raven
Quote from: superjaz
I have always thought a "promo" section, like for theatre trailers or tv show opening credits
I believe that that's the technical definition of our "Trailers" category-- you don't see OPs very often but I am 99% sure they're specifically allowed by the rules, as are commercials.
Yes - the 'Trailer' cateorgy always includes parody TV show OPs, fake ads, and also 'dual openers,' and alternative OPs, which are projects which take the OP of a show (and sometimes the credits) but select different cuts or character studies than the original. Sometimes you can derange the original series enough to place it into a totally unprecedented setting.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2009, 01:55:19 PM by Prinz Eugen »

Offline murder_of_raven

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Re: 2010 AMV Contest Rules and Categories Discussion!
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2009, 03:12:45 PM »
Sometimes you can derange the original series enough to place it into a totally unprecedented setting.

Ooh, do you have any examples of this? I mean, I've seen a few MADs (the two-part "Code Geass as a shoujo" comes to mind) but this is an extremely uncommon and interesting sub-genre.

Offline Tobias

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Re: 2010 AMV Contest Rules and Categories Discussion!
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2009, 08:58:19 PM »
Sometimes you can derange the original series enough to place it into a totally unprecedented setting.

Ooh, do you have any examples of this? I mean, I've seen a few MADs (the two-part "Code Geass as a shoujo" comes to mind) but this is an extremely uncommon and interesting sub-genre.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhIzhx8NyLw  I believe that they showed this a few years ago at con, it's the haruhi OP done with hellsing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSsRumaR5Fw  This is my best example of 'taking a series and putting it an unprecedented setting.'  It's not an OP, but it is very...interesting.

(By the way, I'm just an amv fan, I want to make them, but I have no idea how.  So please feel free to ignore my posts.  I just want the contest to be the best it can be.)
Done:
Garterbelt (Panty & Stocking)
Fem!Demoman (TF2)

2013:
Attack on titan uniform

Offline somanyturtles

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Re: 2010 AMV Contest Rules and Categories Discussion!
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2009, 09:41:07 PM »

So how do we screen in those 'Holy cr** I just GOTTA get this done right or DIE' emotions, or 'ok this this got twisted - now how WRONG can it get' story, while (as SMT also hilariously illustrates) screening out the 'My girrffrend dumped me and likes this other guy better whaa whaa whaa' crud?



The unforunate part is that problem can only be solved by the creators themselfs. People are going to send in their videos and not all of them are gonna be winners, or even close to winners for that matter. Theres still gonna be crappy footage, insanly bad lip sync, and horrid knockoffs of well known videos and unfortunatly you and the jedges have so cycle through them.

As pesimistic as it sounds it seems that this is a problem that we're just gonna have to live with. If we don't put room for the sappy emo vids, people are gonna complain and we're just gonna have to bring it back for 2011.

Offline MichaelEvans

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Re: Tension - what is it?
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2009, 10:51:38 PM »
Quote from: somanyturtles
As for defineng the difference between action and tension, the way i see it is "action" is generally fast paced with effects that get your blood pumping where "Tension" should evoke an emotion like sadness, hatred, or fear.
The other aspect of 'Tension' that I really had wanted (but maybe didn't know how to ask the right questions) is TENSE - just like a rope stretched taut.

Like in a disaster movie - it has to start off 'normal, ho-hum' anyways, but if the movie is called 'The Towering Inferno,' or 'The Lusitania,' or 'The Day it Blew 231mph Atop Mt. Washington,' you are waiting tensely. That's totally cool - just like getting hauled clinkety-clinkety-clink up the roller coaster, dreading that BIG DROP. Perfect, because you know you are headed for it and it's too late NOT to have taken the ride. The 'ho-hum' beginning can create tension because the movie title tells you something the characters cannot know of, or cannot prevent once they find out, is fated to happen.

So SMTs idea can work: 'watch how something little gets totally out of control later' - and you have to WAIT for it - especially if you're hanging onto one or a few little hints that something MAJOR is gonna hit the fan - but you just don't know WHAT or HOW BIG.

You want the audience to be HANGING on what's gonna happen NEXT. The ticking-down time bomb might work, or a 'Fail Safe' situation: You have just launched a devastating attack which you feel is totally justified - but before it hits, you discover NEW, IMPORTANT information which makes you need to POSSIBLY CANCEL the attack. Or at least strongly consider it, then play mind games with yourself as you try to figure out what's really going on. Is the countervailing information real, or an enemy's ruse? What if you're wrong?

And all the while, the slipping opportunity to neutralize the outgoing warheads, or call back the ships or pilots  ... tick ... tick ... "Two minutes to Fail Safe, Mr. President."

So how do we screen in those 'Holy cr** I just GOTTA get this done right or DIE' emotions, or 'ok this this got twisted - now how WRONG can it get' story, while (as SMT also hilariously illustrates) screening out the 'My girrffrend dumped me and likes this other guy better whaa whaa whaa' crud?

I -hate- horror movies in general, but in the spirit of facing my fears in a slightly more controlled setting... I instantly thought of SAW.

Only this would need a little help.  Some 'assistants' ensure no doors are open, the video includes a very realistic locking effect such that you think all the doors in the auditorium have been locked shut.  Then everything goes dark, and it starts to show various Anime scenes with saw like traps.  Then it starts to get personal... something to draw the audience in to being in the final trap.  Vote for this video or (something bad).
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Offline MichaelEvans

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Re: 2010 AMV Contest Rules and Categories Discussion!
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2009, 11:03:48 PM »
One more (and different) thing.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember hearing (from Guy) that he still wanted an adult AMV section to exist, but that he didn't really want to (or couldn't) run it next year.  Further that it would be nice to have someplace to forward AMVs which were too mature/adult for the main AMV contest.

I'm looking for input, suggestions, and advice of all types. http://www.kumoricon.org/forums/index.php?topic=11787.0
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Offline murder_of_raven

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Re: 2010 AMV Contest Rules and Categories Discussion!
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2009, 11:40:04 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhIzhx8NyLw  I believe that they showed this a few years ago at con, it's the haruhi OP done with hellsing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSsRumaR5Fw  This is my best example of 'taking a series and putting it an unprecedented setting.'  It's not an OP, but it is very...interesting.

(By the way, I'm just an amv fan, I want to make them, but I have no idea how.  So please feel free to ignore my posts.  I just want the contest to be the best it can be.)


I'm totally familiar with those videos, although they weren't quite what Guy was talking about. Still, I agree they're very good.

And please don't feel like that, I think most of us were AMV fans for a while before becoming AMV Creators and I think all of us still are fans too. I mean, I'm a creator for less than a year but as a fan I'm going on 5 or 6. I can speak for everybody but I imagine we all are just as interested in your opinion as anybody else's. :)

Offline Prinz Eugen

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Re: Tension - what is it?
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2009, 01:20:01 PM »
The other aspect of 'Tension' that I really had wanted (but maybe didn't know how to ask the right questions) is TENSE - just like a rope stretched taut.
That's essentially my problem with the idea behind this category: you are describing exactly one video. ... I think we're best off splitting into "action" and "special effects" and then assuming that any "tension" worth its playtime would make adequate use of one or the other.
Good comments.
For your 'one video,' I meant more like this is only one possible example - try whatever you like - but go for suspense and intensity. Sorry if it sounded too limiting. I just described situations that personally get me engaged. YMMV - and that's why (a zillion times again) I convene a panel and exclude myself from it. ('cuz I know I have unusual personal preferences ...)

Typically in selecting 'Action,' the judges have tended to prefer AMVs that have a strong, coherent story behind the selected scenes and the lyrics chosen. We don't want to just see Soldier Sword Dude 'A' vs Sword Dude 'B' unless something original and intriguing is happening (an unusual weapons form or an exceptionally authentic kata?) or somehow the conflict gets more and more emotionally engaging, or we get to see how the stakes are escalating.

Mecha combat? Fine, but what's the reason we're getting 'rough on the real estate' in southside Yokohama?

Anyways - heres a more GENERAL question: HOW MANY categories is 'about right?'

5? - 6? - 7? - 8?  This also affects how long the contest goes (4min 40sec x 6 per category x No. of categories,)  but is modulated by the fact that certain categories (eg 'Trailers') often have shorter durations than others.

For M_Evans' question about a second off-hours contest event, I'm thinking that that might be a single category (HMV) showing, with the main criterion for entering (or getting pulled from 'Main' and submitted for 'H') is content 'beyond the pale' of PG-13. One other item to note is that there was one year that the judges panel decided that the best way to winnow the field was to step up to 'PG'  and see what dropped out. Some of the saltier works ended running fine in the off-hours show I ran later. I'd also be happy to send over stuff that doesn't get picked for the Main Show audience and let him (or a panel he convenes himself) decide what may fare well in the 'Off Hours' category. Then, he lets me know what got picked up, and I make sure it doesn't show until after his phase of the AMV events.

However,  I'm perfectly eager to run 'weird-strange-bizarre' and 'scar the audience with BAD puns,' or
'I know a song that gets on everybody's nerves ...' in the main event. Example: Monty Python skits can make VERY STRANGE yet SQUEAKY CLEAN comedy/bizarre works. Avenue Q would be for his event, because they often sing stuff that's not 'radio clean.'

Maybe we could call a category 'Planet Facepalm?'
« Last Edit: October 29, 2009, 01:28:24 PM by Prinz Eugen »

Offline murder_of_raven

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Re: Tension - what is it?
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2009, 01:38:28 PM »
5? - 6? - 7? - 8?  This also affects how long the contest goes (4min 40sec x 6 per category x No. of categories,)  but is modulated by the fact that certain categories (eg 'Trailers') often have shorter durations than others.

I think ideally we should start with 7 or 8 categories with the /intention/ of weeding out categories if they don't get any good submissions. Similarly, I think that "win by default" AMVs should still be shown and that the judges shouldn't make any effort to play a few mediocre videos just so there's some semblance of competition. I think variety would be appreciated most by the audience and a larger number of categories would encourage that.

Offline somanyturtles

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Re: 2010 AMV Contest Rules and Categories Discussion!
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2009, 09:07:43 PM »
Seven - Eight is good. If you think about it, if you do extend the time length of the actual contest even though you're taking time out of the preshow, you're still showing the videos none the less. But now this brings up the question, "If we have (X) categories, what are they going to be?"  which if I am correct offically caused this thread to run in a circle.

So heres my opinions of the categories from last year.

The seven categories for 2009:
Trailers: A good category that can encompass a lot of areas. I still think its akward that people were laughing at the Death Knight when it's suppose to be a serious trailer.

Japanese Music: I kinda got lost in this category. I really didn't know what was going on in all the videos and only really paid attention to one cuz it was a song i Liked. I think we could do without, but what would repace it... idk.

Genki: Great. Loved it. Keeper.

Tension: Obviously something we're talking about on this thread, but I like it and im not sure how you're gonna cut it without making people mad that theirs no room for this type of video.

Action/Effects: As we've need saying, go with a straight action category. As for what we do with effects, the personaly don't think that it deservs a category on it's own. I really dont want to watch 3 videos in a row thats flashing lights, and lens flares, and every transition in whatever editing program they use. I think we could have and overall "Most technical" award but an entire category... eh.

Retro: Love it!

Ransom Amusment: Gotta HAve!

Offline murder_of_raven

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Re: 2010 AMV Contest Rules and Categories Discussion!
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2009, 09:33:59 PM »
If we're doing just general voting, here's mine, in order of priority I think they should be given:

Comedy/Random Amusement- should be split into two categories if we get enough submissions for both
Trailers
Action
Effects
Retro
Genki- I like the idea but wasn't very plus-ed by the submissions
Japanese Music- Similarly except I think that this is where Drama/Pointless videos are most likely to seep into a contest. Category should be kept but carefully screened.
Other- I think this is the best way to keep people happy while at the same time not having a "tension" or "drama" or "classical music" or whatever category. The best of submissions that don't fit into the other categories can be played here and we won't have to deal with 1-3 categories everybody hates.

Offline Prinz Eugen

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Re: 2010 AMV Contest Rules and Categories Discussion!
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2009, 02:07:56 PM »
Quote from: Tobias
(By the way, I'm just an amv fan, I want to make them, but I have no idea how.  So please feel free to ignore my posts.  I just want the contest to be the best it can be.)
You are totally welcome here, and you 'count' just as much as everyone else. Matter of fact - we're here to work at entertaining you.

So jump in anytime!

Offline Prinz Eugen

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Re: 2010 AMV Contest Rules and Categories Discussion!
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2009, 03:16:13 PM »
Quote from: murder_of_raven
... but wasn't very plus-ed by the submissions
I **LOVE** this word usage!
It's like being "whelmed" just right; neither over- or underwhelmed.

Offline Prinz Eugen

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Total retread of original series
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2009, 04:48:21 PM »
Quote from: murder_of_raven
Quote from: Prinz Eugen
Sometimes you can derange the original series enough to place it into a totally unprecedented setting.
Ooh, do you have any examples of this?
Here's one: http://www.animemusicvideos.org/video/166843
Evidently the original show has much loli (perhaps even over-the line) content,* but the story told by this AMV is totally unrelated.

* Be warned if you seek out any more info on the original series, depending on where you
   end up, Obama's FBI goons may bash down your door and arrest you.
   As for me, I'm just not going there. Great AMV, tho.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2009, 05:23:15 PM by Prinz Eugen »

Offline murder_of_raven

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Re: 2010 AMV Contest Rules and Categories Discussion!
« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2009, 12:03:33 AM »
I **LOVE** this word usage!

Heehee well, I'm glad somebody is pleased by my word-choice :D

Evidently the original show has much loli (perhaps even over-the line) content,* but the story told by this AMV is totally unrelated.

Oh dear me, that's Kodomo no Jikan; I must say I recommend the manga this was based on. Yes, it is a loli series but its written by a girl and is a /very/ thoughtful discussion of child-abuse and pedophilia and it isn't even remotely pornographic enough to fall under the Protect ACT (although I would only really recommend it to adults, just due to the subject matter). I've seen the anime as well but that was a little less stellar... I am also familiar with the AMV. Heehee, not as out of context as you might think; except that the couple in it are cousins. Surprise! XD I remember giggling about that while it was being played in the contest.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2009, 12:23:49 AM by murder_of_raven »

Offline somanyturtles

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Re: 2010 AMV Contest Rules and Categories Discussion!
« Reply #28 on: December 14, 2009, 01:13:48 AM »
I was looking at the rules page and had a question that wasn't explained. I have a video in the works and about 94% of the footage is pretty mundain but in the movie that finishes the series it got a little on the bloody side, esspecially when one of the main characters goes on what can only be described as a Skull Bashing Red @$% Beatdown. While I'm deffently trying to stay away from the blood showers and projectile wounds I can't 100% edit around everything (basically when the punch hits theres a little blood but then i stop the clip before the head gets ripped off) So I just want to know if there is a set rule for Blood/Guts/Gore that will get you DQed or is it just one of those case by case things that the Judges will have to decide during the reviews?

Offline Mitsukai Mizu Amaya

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Re: 2010 AMV Contest Rules and Categories Discussion!
« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2009, 02:18:19 AM »
Definately keep the Trailer category, even though it's usually on the tail end of submissions - that I've noticed - it's still one of the best categorys both for short entertainments and semi-serious 'What if?'s'
KumoriCon 2012

Offline Prinz Eugen

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Re: 2010 AMV Contest Rules and Categories Discussion!
« Reply #30 on: December 14, 2009, 12:25:03 PM »
Quote from: somanyturtles
I was looking at the rules page and had a question that wasn't explained.[...] a Skull Bashing Red @$% Beatdown [...] and projectile wounds,
[...] when the punch hits there's a little blood but then i stop the clip before the head gets ripped off[...]
So I just want to know if there is a set rule for Blood/Guts/Gore that will get you DQed or is it just one of those case by case things that the Judges will have to decide during the reviews?
You are right, I let the judges make the calls, but generally there is more leeway in bloody-bladey stuff than typical American TV regs because of the very central presence of the sword in Japanese culture, especially since they were functional and visually ubiquetous in society until relatively recently, and even so they are still used in contemporary Yakuza settings (and real-life crimes in Japan today.)

Culturally the Japanese sword is as much a part of a character as guns are in America: the cowboy and his wheel-gun, the 30's gumshoe and his 5-shot snubnose, age 10 - 14 is time Dad is supposed to buy his boy his first Daisy air rifle, and his girl gets a .410 ga, etc.

Since in Japanese movies and in anime, a character can be 'introduced' by the ha-mon on the sword as it is drawn, (Kill Bill also did this in one of that movie's animated sections,) there's probably a lot more blood and blades you can get away with in AMVs than in American TV.

Seppuku, even with the head shown coming off or parted on the ground nearby, is culturally understood to be a way to reclaim dignity and honor in death. The 90s era anime of (Nansou Satomi) Hakkenden had a beheading (and she was visibly pissed about it...) There is more Japanese-specific ritual to it than a vampire or nasty-monster dismemberment scene (e.g, Hellsing, Claymore.)

If I had to draw the line, I'd kinda think sprays and splats of blood are to be expected here and there, but once you have bits of identifiable internal organs moving on screen entrained in the flow, or exploding body parts a la Elfen Lied, well you might want to make sure that there is some kind of artistically redeeming and important message or effect going on. A couple years ago I did here one judge advance almost exactly that criterion - blood = OK / bits of bone and brain on the subway traincar floor = NOT OK - but it turned out it was overruled by other judges.

(OK so maybe you're making a spoof on sugar fairy content -> blood sugar overload -> pancreatic failure -> diabetes -> renal failure -> ... and THEN you have the Bottle Fairies fly by in a blood splat while taking some bits of kidney or pancreas along with the ride, or if you have some other obscure endocrinology joke going that I don't get - well you probably can TRY that...)

Mononoke Hime had a now-overused forearm separation, but IIRC the OVA was rated PG?
« Last Edit: December 14, 2009, 12:36:53 PM by Prinz Eugen »

Offline Prinz Eugen

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Re: 2010 AMV Contest Rules and Categories Discussion!
« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2009, 03:26:00 PM »
Quote from: murder_of_raven
Oh dear me, that's Kodomo no Jikan; [...] Yes, it is a loli series but its written by a girl and is a /very/ thoughtful discussion of child-abuse and pedophilia and it isn't even remotely pornographic enough to fall under the Protect ACT ... I am also familiar with the AMV. Heehee, not as out of context as you might think; except that the couple in it are cousins. Surprise! XD I remember giggling about that while it was being played in the contest.
1) The Protect Act is VERY SCARY, especially when combined with [edited] US vs Knox [will add state later as edit] and also Miller but IANAL. Be afraid, be very afraid.

Edit: The scary thing is trying to go after thoughts or desires as crime. This in a country where German emmigrants sang a song "Die Gedanken sind Frei" ("Thinking is Free") on the original Oregon Trail 150 years ago. Typically the secular law should only come into play if a person with an "evil" desire actually does something evil. To be tempted sorely and win in that nothing physical ever came of it is a spiritual victory - not a crime. Nor is fantasy inside your head - no real victims or damage, right?

2) The AMV is a great 'that's NOT what the show is about' story in its own right, because if all you see is the AMV, and if you assume that the three characters are Mom, Dad, and daughter, there's nothing in the AMV that contradicts that assumption. Which is very cool, and also for those in the know, a total silent CRACK UP while everyone else is like, "oh-that's-so-poignant" ....
« Last Edit: December 15, 2009, 07:00:19 AM by Prinz Eugen »

Offline murder_of_raven

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Re: 2010 AMV Contest Rules and Categories Discussion!
« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2009, 03:39:28 PM »
1) The Protect Act is VERY SCARY, especially when combined with Knox vs [will add state later as edit] and also Miller but IANAL. Be afraid, be very afraid.
Gee, don't I know that. I'm not even into that sort of stuff (with Kodomo no Jikan probably being the closest I've ever gotten) and it still makes me really upset. Still, I feel like I have to stand up for KnJ because people tend to assume its something it isn't (that is, something like Strike Witches only worse).

a total silent CRACK UP while everyone else is like, "oh-that's-so-poignant" ....
Yes, indeed. I had so much trouble not actually laughing aloud.

Offline somanyturtles

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Re: 2010 AMV Contest Rules and Categories Discussion!
« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2009, 02:05:03 AM »


If I had to draw the line, I'd kinda think sprays and splats of blood are to be expected here and there, but once you have bits of identifiable internal organs moving on screen entrained in the flow, or exploding body parts a la Elfen Lied, well you might want to make sure that there is some kind of artistically redeeming and important message or effect going on.

I'm was pretty sure thats about where the line would be drawn. I wasn't planning on using the intestine eating scene or most of the shots of the munched character after that.

Also just to clarify after you mentioned exploding body parts, theres a line in the song "Destroying your evil," where i want to use one shot where the heros defeat an enemy who afterwords goes "BOOM" Its a big explosion that fills the screen and theres no identifiable "Parts"... even though its not even a humanoid enemy that really doesnt have identifyable "Parts"... Thumbs up or thumbs down?

Offline murder_of_raven

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Re: 2010 AMV Contest Rules and Categories Discussion!
« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2010, 01:24:05 PM »
Hmm... so when are the official rules going to be posted? XD Sorry for being impatient but I seem to remember it being said at some point that they'd be up "the first week of January".

Offline Prinz Eugen

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Re: 2010 AMV Contest Rules and Categories Discussion!
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2010, 10:56:15 AM »
Hmm... so when are the official rules going to be posted?
I am waiting for final in-person questions and comments at today's Kumoricon meeting, then (assuming I get bandwidth) I should have things up and running tonight.

:-)

Offline murder_of_raven

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Re: 2010 AMV Contest Rules and Categories Discussion!
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2010, 04:32:55 PM »
I am waiting for final in-person questions and comments at today's Kumoricon meeting, then (assuming I get bandwidth) I should have things up and running tonight.

Yay! Good news! :3

Offline Prinz Eugen

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Re: 2010 AMV Contest Rules and Categories Discussion!
« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2010, 05:39:50 PM »
Quote from: murder_of_raven
Yay! Good news! :3

And we are GO !!!

Thanks for all your comments & ideas, everyone.

I am looking forward to a fun contest, and I hope you all are too!

Offline Pie Row Maniac

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Re: 2010 AMV Contest Rules and Categories Discussion!
« Reply #38 on: February 20, 2010, 04:21:07 PM »
No drama category? That's odd, but alright.