Author Topic: Borderlands  (Read 30616 times)

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Offline Mr_Mustash

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Re: Borderlands
« Reply #100 on: January 28, 2010, 06:39:07 pm »
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Offline Cyprus

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Re: Borderlands
« Reply #101 on: January 28, 2010, 09:08:53 pm »
Um... There's  a reason that these games cost $60 for XBox and $50 for PC. I don't know if you ever watched the credits for something like Borderland or Mass Effect, but it lists well over 400 people that worked on the game.

So lets take 400 people, 2 years, paying them $65,000 (which is low BTW) and you get $58,000,000. So yeah, games cost just a little to make.
Just like union worker in car facilities...OVERPAID

Offline Mr_Mustash

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Re: Borderlands
« Reply #102 on: January 28, 2010, 09:16:12 pm »
Um... There's  a reason that these games cost $60 for XBox and $50 for PC. I don't know if you ever watched the credits for something like Borderland or Mass Effect, but it lists well over 400 people that worked on the game.

So lets take 400 people, 2 years, paying them $65,000 (which is low BTW) and you get $58,000,000. So yeah, games cost just a little to make.
Just like union worker in car facilities...OVERPAID

I'm sorry, but $65,000 is low for the computer science industry. Base salary is usually around $80,000.

I'm sorry if you think this is unfair for some reason, but finding good computer scientists is hard. They devote pretty much the time from when they were born to their early 20s learning EVERYTHING they need to know about programming, data structures, etc. (I should know, I am one.) This usually involves at least a masters degree and most likely a doctorate.

We work hard to make that much. So quit your complaining and get a degree that will allow you to make that much if you want to.
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Offline DancingTofu

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Re: Borderlands
« Reply #103 on: January 29, 2010, 05:04:28 am »
Hey so not to ask the same question twice but does anyone know if the weapon proficiency has a level cap? i assume its 100 or some unattainable number that your never actually supposed to reach. Has anyone reached it?
It's 50...and the link I provided to GameFAQs.com when you asked earlier explicitly answers that exact question and required only a few seconds for me to find. :P

As for the pricing argument, Decreasing the price of a game by $20 will decrease the amount that the game nets as a total.  The licensing company (Sony, Microsoft, or Nintendo for any console game) will get the same amount per copy.  They net a profit.  The publisher (Sony, Nintendo, Konami, Sega, Atari, Midway, Ubisoft, et cetera) will get the same amount per copy.  The net a profit.  The developer (Bungie, Gearbox, Capcom, Bemani, Bethesda, Blizzard, Square Enix, RoXoR, et cetera) will receive an amount equal to n-(Ln)-(Pn)-(m+d), where n is the number of copies of the game sole, L is the licensing fee per game sold, P is the publishing fee per game sold, m is the manufacturing cost, and d is the development cost.  A lucky, successful developer will break even.  In other words, they'll be able to pay full development salaries without going bankrupt or laying off development staff, and they'll continue to produce more excellent games in the future.  The unlucky ones don't achieve a profit, and get purchased by their Publisher or Licensor.*

Increasing the cost of games allows development companies to make the best games and gives honest, hard-working people great jobs.  The price tag isn't pretty, but it's really not up to you to change.  Publishers and Licensors will continue to hold developers under their thumb as long as they can control the market.  That's why I'm a computer gamer.  It's easier for Developers to get games published and licensed for PC than for any major console because the hardware and firmware are so open-ended.  Don't want to pay $60 for Borderlands?  Get the PC version for $50, or cheaper used.  It's a better way to play and a larger percentage of your expenses will go towards supporting the developers.

* I'm not 100% sure this is exactly how the industry operates at the moment, but I'm very certain that my point still stands: a drop in price and increase in sales will generally net a profit for publishers and licensors and a deficit for developers.  I'm also intentionally leaving out retailers because retailers don't set a base price; they just sell games for whatever price best reflects the demand curve.
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Offline Cyprus

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Re: Borderlands
« Reply #104 on: January 29, 2010, 07:09:33 am »
Um... There's  a reason that these games cost $60 for XBox and $50 for PC. I don't know if you ever watched the credits for something like Borderland or Mass Effect, but it lists well over 400 people that worked on the game.

So lets take 400 people, 2 years, paying them $65,000 (which is low BTW) and you get $58,000,000. So yeah, games cost just a little to make.
Just like union worker in car facilities...OVERPAID


I'm sorry, but $65,000 is low for the computer science industry. Base salary is usually around $80,000.

I'm sorry if you think this is unfair for some reason, but finding good computer scientists is hard. They devote pretty much the time from when they were born to their early 20s learning EVERYTHING they need to know about programming, data structures, etc. (I should know, I am one.) This usually involves at least a masters degree and most likely a doctorate.

We work hard to make that much. So quit your complaining and get a degree that will allow you to make that much if you want to.
Don't lecture me as if you know a single thing about my work or my life. I work my a** off every day & have been for more years than you could probably fathom.  I OWN MY HOUSE...MY CARS...MY PROPERTY. Where is your studio apt. located again? Or maybe its just the basement in mom's house? Don't patronize me. Think before you try to lecture people you don't know & keep your self-centered OPINION to yourself.

As for the cost...not a soul in this world can whole-heartedly say that inflation hasn't directly affected all of this.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2010, 07:58:55 am by Cyprus »

Offline DancingTofu

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Re: Borderlands
« Reply #105 on: January 29, 2010, 01:20:50 pm »
Inflation only represents numbers.  It does not represent value, so that's kind of a moot point.
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Offline Bresslol

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Re: Borderlands
« Reply #106 on: January 29, 2010, 04:08:58 pm »
Um... There's  a reason that these games cost $60 for XBox and $50 for PC. I don't know if you ever watched the credits for something like Borderland or Mass Effect, but it lists well over 400 people that worked on the game.

So lets take 400 people, 2 years, paying them $65,000 (which is low BTW) and you get $58,000,000. So yeah, games cost just a little to make.
Just like union worker in car facilities...OVERPAID

I take great offense to this.

I work in the industry (If you think I am lying, go ahead and look for my name in the Fable II credits). A lot of these games do cost a lot of money to make, to say that I for one, don't deserve to be paid and that a $60 price tag isn't fair is a slap in the face to my industry. You're basically saying that I can right screw off and get minimum wage for my hard (sometimes 100 hours a week) work to make sure that the game ships with as few bugs and issues as possible.

Also, not everyone lives with their parents. Your post attacking Tofu makes you look like a self-important person, and again, the rest of us can right screw off. Also, I'd like to point out something really quick:

Quote
Don't lecture me as if you know a single thing about my work or my life. I work my a** off every day & have been for more years than you could probably fathom.  I OWN MY HOUSE...MY CARS...MY PROPERTY. Where is your studio apt. located again? Or maybe its just the basement in mom's house? Don't patronize me. Think before you try to lecture people you don't know & keep your self-centered OPINION to yourself.

I've bolded those two things to point out your hypocrisy. You're saying not to assume your life or work, and then you go off and assume other people's. Just saying. Not everyone here is a stereotypical gamer, and you really have no right assuming everyone in this thread is.


I will also point out to you quite a few games on the SNES ran for $70, and people still bought them; people will pay money for something if they really want it, and moreson if they are going to get quite a bit of playtime out of it.


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Offline DancingTofu

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Re: Borderlands
« Reply #107 on: January 29, 2010, 04:48:42 pm »
I don't really disagree with having this discussion, but it may be necessary to start a new topic for it so this thread doesn't get jacked.  Any takers?  I can try to split it but it wouldn't be a clean split.
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Offline Mr_Mustash

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Re: Borderlands
« Reply #108 on: January 29, 2010, 05:01:50 pm »
I will also point out to you quite a few games on the SNES ran for $70, and people still bought them; people will pay money for something if they really want it, and moreson if they are going to get quite a bit of playtime out of it.

Hell, I'll pay WAY over $70 for some SNES games. Like Earthbound. Oh my sack I want a copy of Earthbound.

I don't really disagree with having this discussion, but it may be necessary to start a new topic for it so this thread doesn't get jacked.  Any takers?  I can try to split it but it wouldn't be a clean split.

And if you could just split it where Cyprus and I started or discussion that would work I think. Just make the topic called "video game industry" or something like that.
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Offline DancingTofu

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Re: Borderlands
« Reply #109 on: January 29, 2010, 07:24:32 pm »
I couldn't find a good split point.  Please use this thread to continue this discussion, and everyone remember to please be civil and open-minded when sharing your thoughts.
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