Author Topic: 2011+ -- NON-CONVENTION Options (Multi-Hotel cluster near/around a park)  (Read 13900 times)

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Offline MichaelEvans

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Using no scientific formula at all let us say we hit 10000+ In 2011.  No single hotel in the area can possibly contain us, even the convention center and like places won't be very useful (they're one -single- large space, not a bunch of large (not massive) audience areas.).

Observing the following conditions:
* In Portalnd
* On or within 4 block of the Maxline (closer being better)
* Close to nice outdoor areas.
* A cluster of two or more hotels with LOTS of interior areas for our events that are -VERY- close together.
; what locations come to mind?

As a side note, while being a PITA (as 99%+ of our convention would have to drive to and park at it) the Vancouver area we had in 2007 -MAY- work if we takeover every last hotel around the park.

Please don't suggest it again though, as it is now obviously already known.  I'd like -new- suggestions and considerations for our incoming directors.

-- edit 2009-09-10 @ 14:20 --

Everyone still seems to be missing the point.  I'm not talking just TWO hotels, I'm talking more like 4 to 8 hotels that happen to be close to each other and the maxline.

Ideally the hotels would be within -very- easy walking distance of each other, the maxline  (-edit- !!! As it should exist by Labor Day 2011!), and a park (preferably in line of sight).

AT LEAST 2 of the hotels would need to have convention space we'd be booking, more hopefully 3+ would.

This way instead of having large rooms divided by expanding partitions we can retain them as large rooms and have larger event spaces to hold panels/viewing that easily overflow the smaller divided rooms.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2009, 02:22:31 pm by MichaelEvans »
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Offline Kimiski

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Offline MichaelEvans

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Re: 2011 and Beyond - The search for perfection
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2009, 01:46:55 am »
Sorry, I didn't see that one.  Maybe -it- should be made sticky instead.

-- Edit --

No, after reading it this should still exist, but I should clarify the topic...
« Last Edit: September 10, 2009, 02:00:17 am by MichaelEvans »
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Offline DancingTofu

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Re: 2011+ -- NON-CONVENTION Options (Multi-Hotel cluster near/around a park)
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2009, 02:46:27 am »
I already did a comprehensive search.  The OCC is the only singular establishment which meets those terms.  Topics like this are just wasting space at this point.
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Offline Mr_Mustash

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Re: 2011+ -- NON-CONVENTION Options (Multi-Hotel cluster near/around a park)
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2009, 02:56:21 am »
There is always the option to use multiple hotel convention spaces for different parts of the con. I get to attend many different technical conferences and many of they are spread out that way.
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Offline AllyKat

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Re: 2011+ -- NON-CONVENTION Options (Multi-Hotel cluster near/around a park)
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2009, 12:37:25 pm »
even the convention center and like places won't be very useful (they're one -single- large space, not a bunch of large (not massive) audience areas.).

Link to what I just said in the similar topic, to avoid people continuing to believe this not-truth:

http://www.kumoricon.org/forums/index.php?topic=11118.msg467513#msg467513

Basically: w/ 50 mtg rooms, 2 ballrooms and exhibit space, you can't really call the OCC "one single large space"

The only two options in the area have already been deemed not suitable for our venue:


                              Mtg Rooms                  Total Mtg Sqr Footage               Total Sleeping Rooms                  Largest Mtg Rm

Portland Hilton:                26                             66,000                                        782                                      12,657

Waterfront Marriot:           20                             50,000                                         503                                     15,550


And then the OCC. Thats it, no more... unless you wanna rehash the College's and universities... which don't normally hold
this kind of event so the capacity in which we know how it will pan out is VERY limited...

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Offline Rathany

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Re: 2011+ -- NON-CONVENTION Options (Multi-Hotel cluster near/around a park)
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2009, 12:43:09 pm »
even the convention center and like places won't be very useful (they're one -single- large space, not a bunch of large (not massive) audience areas.).

Link to what I just said in the similar topic, to avoid people continuing to believe this not-truth:

http://www.kumoricon.org/forums/index.php?topic=11118.msg467513#msg467513

Basically: w/ 50 mtg rooms, 2 ballrooms and exhibit space, you can't really call the OCC "one single large space"

The only two options in the area have already been deemed not suitable for our venue:


                              Mtg Rooms                  Total Mtg Sqr Footage               Total Sleeping Rooms                  Largest Mtg Rm

Portland Hilton:                26                             66,000                                        782                                      12,657

Waterfront Marriot:           20                             50,000                                         503                                     15,550


And then the OCC. Thats it, no more... unless you wanna rehash the College's and universities... which don't normally hold
this kind of event so the capacity in which we know how it will pan out is VERY limited...

~Allykat

Yup.  And again, these options have been explored.  Again and again.  There is someone at Portland's visitor association, Travel Portland, whose JOB it is to look for options for us.  We have talked with her at lenght every year.  Sak was able to do a split-hotel solution to it's growing pains for a time.  We don't have an option here in Portland. 

Raise about 30 million and we can buy and rebuild, to suit our needs, the defunct hotel on Hayden Island :)  Outside of that, we have to deal with what we have. 
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Offline AllyKat

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Re: 2011+ -- NON-CONVENTION Options (Multi-Hotel cluster near/around a park)
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2009, 12:46:07 pm »
Raise about 30 million and we can buy and rebuild, to suit our needs, the defunct hotel on Hayden Island :)  Outside of that, we have to deal with what we have. 

Wait? Why didn't we hear about this option before??!!!

*clears her throat*

Alright folks! you heard the man! 30 million dollars in two years!! Lets brush up on our host club skills and get to work!

:)

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Offline DarkStar

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Re: 2011+ -- NON-CONVENTION Options (Multi-Hotel cluster near/around a park)
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2009, 01:44:59 pm »
Raise about 30 million and we can buy and rebuild, to suit our needs, the defunct hotel on Hayden Island :)  Outside of that, we have to deal with what we have. 

Yep, you'll have to buy it from the State of Oregon and find a different place for them to build the new Columbia River Crossing...
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Offline DarkStar

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Re: 2011+ -- NON-CONVENTION Options (Multi-Hotel cluster near/around a park)
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2009, 02:09:13 pm »
Using no scientific formula at all let us say we hit 10000+ In 2011.  No single hotel in the area can possibly contain us, even the convention center and like places won't be very useful (they're one -single- large space, not a bunch of large (not massive) audience areas.).

Observing the following conditions:
* In Portalnd
* On or within 4 block of the Maxline (closer being better)
* Close to nice outdoor areas.
* A cluster of two or more hotels with LOTS of interior areas for our events that are -VERY- close together.
; what locations come to mind?

As a side note, while being a PITA (as 99%+ of our convention would have to drive to and park at it) the Vancouver area we had in 2007 -MAY- work if we takeover every last hotel around the park.

Please don't suggest it again though, as it is now obviously already known.  I'd like -new- suggestions and considerations for our incoming directors.

Unless you're trying to count the Doubletree in Jantzen Beach, there is no way Vancouver has the capacity for 10,000+ attendees. With the new I-5 bridge (Columbia River Crossing) being under construction in 2011, even Vancouver will be a mess, let alone Jantzen Beach.

Personally, I think the board should be considering an immediate cap on attendance (maybe going as far as to just require pre-registration) and then do some customer/cost analysis to determine if registration rates could be raised to fund moving to the Oregon Convention Center. The $30 I paid to pre-register originally was a bargain in the convention world. I just got done going to Blizzcon in Anaheim that charged $125 to enter. If the decision was made to move to the convention center and make pre-registration start at $45, I wouldn't hesitate to register at all. Some people might complain over $15, but that's barely over $1 extra per month...

It's really not rocket science. If we want to continue to grow we have to move to the Oregon Convention Center. We don't have to rent the whole place (most conventions rent just 1 exhibit hall, 1 ballroom, and some meeting rooms), just enough to contain our events. Using Blizzcon as an example again, they rented 2 exhibit halls at the Anaheim Convention Center. 1 exhibit hall was used just for registration (hey, there were 20,000 people ;D) and the other exhibit hall was divided into 8 different sections (4 for panels and the other 4 for various gaming areas and vendors). We'll need to think out of the box a bit to make the best use of the space, but it would definitely work.

Now, with all of that said, I would support capping Kumoricon in order to fit into the standard hotel/con-space situation we're used to. I don't think it's absolutely necessary to grow every year, but capping will cause a lot more competition and will change the demographic that ends up attending (less primary school aged attendees).
--Chris ^_^

Offline AllyKat

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Re: 2011+ -- NON-CONVENTION Options (Multi-Hotel cluster near/around a park)
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2009, 02:16:03 pm »

Personally, I think the board should be considering an immediate cap on attendance (maybe going as far as to just require pre-registration) and then do some customer/cost analysis to determine if registration rates could be raised to fund moving to the Oregon Convention Center. The $30 I paid to pre-register originally was a bargain in the convention world. I just got done going to Blizzcon in Anaheim that charged $125 to enter. If the decision was made to move to the convention center and make pre-registration start at $45, I wouldn't hesitate to register at all. Some people might complain over $15, but that's barely over $1 extra per month...


The only problem with this is actually 3 fold (but the same idea)

1. Blizzcon is waaaay bigger/has more to offer than us and is an industry con with industry con things.
2. A great % of our attendance is minors, to which, $15 is a huge deal
3. While we've already said a $15 price hike wouldn't make the amount needed to jump to the con center,
even if it did it would only pay for more space, it would not give anyone a better "quality" convention. No
new programing or extra events, just a ton more space to have the stat-quo in, which isnt bad... but many
people may not find it is worth $15 or more extra bucks.

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Offline MichaelEvans

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Re: 2011+ -- NON-CONVENTION Options (Multi-Hotel cluster near/around a park)
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2009, 02:20:26 pm »
Everyone still seems to be missing the point.  I'm not talking just TWO hotels, I'm talking more like 4 to 8 hotels that happen to be close to each other and the maxline.

Ideally the hotels would be within -very- easy walking distance of each other, the maxline  (-edit- !!! As it should exist by Labor Day 2011!), and a park (preferably in line of sight).

AT LEAST 2 of the hotels would need to have convention space we'd be booking, more hopefully 3+ would.

This way instead of having large rooms divided by expanding partitions we can retain them as large rooms and have larger event spaces to hold panels/viewing that easily overflow the smaller divided rooms.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2009, 02:21:10 pm by MichaelEvans »
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Offline oslapedo

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Re: 2011+ -- NON-CONVENTION Options (Multi-Hotel cluster near/around a park)
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2009, 04:05:50 pm »
Just walking to the Executive tower was a hassle, going all the way to different hotels...
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Offline MichaelEvans

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Re: 2011+ -- NON-CONVENTION Options (Multi-Hotel cluster near/around a park)
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2009, 04:50:55 pm »
You had to cross two crosswalks.  Plus one way was across a maxline.

Compare this to the prospect of not having enough space, or having to go up and down 5 flights of stairs.
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Offline Hazuza

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Re: 2011+ -- NON-CONVENTION Options (Multi-Hotel cluster near/around a park)
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2009, 04:56:03 pm »
You had to cross two crosswalks.  Plus one way was across a maxline.

Compare this to the prospect of not having enough space, or having to go up and down 5 flights of stairs.
... I actually do like the stairs better. o_o

Offline Rathany

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Re: 2011+ -- NON-CONVENTION Options (Multi-Hotel cluster near/around a park)
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2009, 04:59:12 pm »
Also, with a bunch of smaller hotels, we will have NO big space for main events.  Cosplay Contest, AMV Contest, concerts, dances, etc - we'd have to cap attendence at like 70 people or so. 
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Offline MichaelEvans

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Re: 2011+ -- NON-CONVENTION Options (Multi-Hotel cluster near/around a park)
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2009, 06:40:20 pm »
We'd have 2-4 'large' event spaces, maybe 500-1000 people per.  We could actually hold a concert and AMV at the same time, then do an encore showing of both 30-60 min later and have the results on another day.

We could also hold a dance in the alternate building after a concert and not worry about turning the room around as quickly.
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Offline Kimiski

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Re: 2011 and Beyond - The search for perfection
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2009, 06:42:55 pm »
Sorry, I didn't see that one.  Maybe -it- should be made sticky instead.

-- Edit --

No, after reading it this should still exist, but I should clarify the topic...

The thread wasn't just meant for people to talk about OCC, just lots of people agree with it and wanted to have their input on it. In my first post it says people can suggest other places there as well.


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Offline Rathany

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Re: 2011+ -- NON-CONVENTION Options (Multi-Hotel cluster near/around a park)
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2009, 06:45:56 pm »
We'd have 2-4 'large' event spaces, maybe 500-1000 people per.  We could actually hold a concert and AMV at the same time, then do an encore showing of both 30-60 min later and have the results on another day.

We could also hold a dance in the alternate building after a concert and not worry about turning the room around as quickly.

Where?  How?  What hotels outside of the 3 Hiltons and the OCC have large event spaces at all? 
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Offline MichaelEvans

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Re: 2011 and Beyond - The search for perfection
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2009, 06:47:59 pm »
Sorry, I didn't see that one.  Maybe -it- should be made sticky instead.
-- Edit --
No, after reading it this should still exist, but I should clarify the topic...
The thread wasn't just meant for people to talk about OCC, just lots of people agree with it and wanted to have their input on it. In my first post it says people can suggest other places there as well.

We'd have 2-4 'large' event spaces, maybe 500-1000 people per.  We could actually hold a concert and AMV at the same time, then do an encore showing of both 30-60 min later and have the results on another day.
We could also hold a dance in the alternate building after a concert and not worry about turning the room around as quickly.
Where?  How?  What hotels outside of the 3 Hiltons and the OCC have large event spaces at all? 

That is exactly what I'm hoping someone could suggest with this thread.  Over the -entire- maxline system, as projected to exist by summer 2011, is there no place that qualifies for the 'dark horse' option?
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Offline Rathany

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Re: 2011 and Beyond - The search for perfection
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2009, 06:51:45 pm »
Sorry, I didn't see that one.  Maybe -it- should be made sticky instead.
-- Edit --
No, after reading it this should still exist, but I should clarify the topic...
The thread wasn't just meant for people to talk about OCC, just lots of people agree with it and wanted to have their input on it. In my first post it says people can suggest other places there as well.

We'd have 2-4 'large' event spaces, maybe 500-1000 people per.  We could actually hold a concert and AMV at the same time, then do an encore showing of both 30-60 min later and have the results on another day.
We could also hold a dance in the alternate building after a concert and not worry about turning the room around as quickly.
Where?  How?  What hotels outside of the 3 Hiltons and the OCC have large event spaces at all? 

That is exactly what I'm hoping someone could suggest with this thread.  Over the -entire- maxline system, as projected to exist by summer 2011, is there no place that qualifies for the 'dark horse' option?

If there is then even Travel Portland, the area visitor's assoc. is unaware of it.  And keep in mind that is a city run organization for the purpose of helping travel and events.  Also, so far, no one else seems up for 20-30 minutes of travel 'all over Portland' to get between events. 
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Offline oslapedo

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Re: 2011+ -- NON-CONVENTION Options (Multi-Hotel cluster near/around a park)
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2009, 06:55:16 pm »
You had to cross two crosswalks.  Plus one way was across a maxline.

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Offline Hoshikage

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Re: 2011 and Beyond - The search for perfection
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2009, 06:56:45 pm »
Where?  How?  What hotels outside of the 3 Hiltons and the OCC have large event spaces at all?  

That is exactly what I'm hoping someone could suggest with this thread.  Over the -entire- maxline system, as projected to exist by summer 2011, is there no place that qualifies for the 'dark horse' option?

Errr... if I'm reading things right, I think that's exactly what people have been trying to say - that nothing exists anywhere in the Portland area that satisfies the requirements. I believe it was stated elsewhere that they have a dedicated person who has been researching every possible venue precisely because of this problem... In which case, surely if there was a magic alternative it would have presented itself by now.

Edit: Oops, yes, there it is - what Rathany said.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2009, 06:57:33 pm by Hoshikage »

Offline Kurohime

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Re: 2011+ -- NON-CONVENTION Options (Multi-Hotel cluster near/around a park)
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2009, 07:01:00 pm »
Can't vouch for the practicality of these, but:  

Masonic Temple (and Mallory Hotel across the street)

Doubletree (and Benson High Auditorium)

Doubletree (and a theater at Lloyd Center, in or outside the mall.  Perhaps some of the 3rd floor rooms as well)

Theater space at the Performing Arts Center or a theater at the Broadway?  

Also, is that square behind Nordstrom's going to be finished next year?  You might be able to hold some events out there, weather pending.  

Offline Rathany

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Re: 2011 and Beyond - The search for perfection
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2009, 07:02:04 pm »
Where?  How?  What hotels outside of the 3 Hiltons and the OCC have large event spaces at all?  

That is exactly what I'm hoping someone could suggest with this thread.  Over the -entire- maxline system, as projected to exist by summer 2011, is there no place that qualifies for the 'dark horse' option?

Errr... if I'm reading things right, I think that's exactly what people have been trying to say - that nothing exists anywhere in the Portland area that satisfies the requirements. I believe it was stated elsewhere that they have a dedicated person who has been researching every possible venue precisely because of this problem... In which case, surely if there was a magic alternative it would have presented itself by now.

Edit: Oops, yes, there it is - what Rathany said.

At least three people over the past couple of years have put months into making sure every option is looked at ;)
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Offline MichaelEvans

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Re: 2011+ -- NON-CONVENTION Options (Multi-Hotel cluster near/around a park)
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2009, 07:11:14 pm »
At least three people over the past couple of years have put months into making sure every option is looked at ;)

I remember it coming up publicly at least once before; so that means everything along the older maxlines is out.  However what of the newer locations open along the yellow and green-lines?

http://trimet.org/maxgreenline/routeandstations.htm


Also, making a list of hotels along the maxlines, and then an initial scouting of how many people they can hold in event-space, and starting to put together a good list might be helpful.  Adding in the existing cluster and park constraints could make that task even faster.  I just wasn't sure it had actually been done as no public report of that nature had previously been made.
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Offline Rathany

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Re: 2011+ -- NON-CONVENTION Options (Multi-Hotel cluster near/around a park)
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2009, 07:17:34 pm »
Can't vouch for the practicality of these, but:  

Masonic Temple (and Mallory Hotel across the street)

Doubletree (and Benson High Auditorium)

Doubletree (and a theater at Lloyd Center, in or outside the mall.  Perhaps some of the 3rd floor rooms as well)

Theater space at the Performing Arts Center or a theater at the Broadway?  

Also, is that square behind Nordstrom's going to be finished next year?  You might be able to hold some events out there, weather pending.  

We cannot rent movie theatres on Labor Day weekend.  It's too big of a money-maker weekend for them.  Also, we cannot do dances or concerts there.

Lloyd Center Mall did not want to rent us event space last year, ditto Pembrose.

Hotel Mallory has three meeting rooms, and is a luxury hotel.  

I assume Benson High is the school on the other side of 84?  Masses of people through those intersections?  Let's see, to start with, being city owned, we could not use Yojis and would have to use professional security.  Also, what if it rains?  Since they have no information online about renting the school, they are likely not set up for it.  Adding another use to a building would mean them having to revise the insurance policies.  I'll look into it, but them even being able to rent us space is kind os a huge longshot.  
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Offline Rathany

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Re: 2011+ -- NON-CONVENTION Options (Multi-Hotel cluster near/around a park)
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2009, 07:24:35 pm »
At least three people over the past couple of years have put months into making sure every option is looked at ;)

I remember it coming up publicly at least once before; so that means everything along the older maxlines is out.  However what of the newer locations open along the yellow and green-lines?

http://trimet.org/maxgreenline/routeandstations.htm


Also, making a list of hotels along the maxlines, and then an initial scouting of how many people they can hold in event-space, and starting to put together a good list might be helpful.  Adding in the existing cluster and park constraints could make that task even faster.  I just wasn't sure it had actually been done as no public report of that nature had previously been made.

The search was not just along max lines.  It was for all of the greater Portland Metro area. 
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Offline AllyKat

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Re: 2011+ -- NON-CONVENTION Options (Multi-Hotel cluster near/around a park)
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2009, 07:26:34 pm »
I am going to humor the "multiple hotel's" Crowd and pretend that the cluster of hotel's NEXT
to the convention centre, didn't actually have a convention centre next to them. Here is what
I have come up with.

Main Hotel: DoubleTree @ Llyod Center

Meeting Space Available:     46,500 sq ft
                                      9 mtg rooms totalling 8,500 sqft
                                      1 grand room totalling 38,000 sqft    
Accomodates:                   4000 guests
Events held here:              Grand:Opening/closing ceremonies, Dances,
                                      Contests, Charity Auction,
                                      Mtg: Panel's, Workshops, Signings, Chibi Room

Sub Hotel 1: Redlion Convention Center

Meeting Space Available:     7,000 sq ft
                                       3 mtg rooms totalling 3,000 sqft
                                       1 mtg room totalling 4,000 sqft
Accomodates:                   400 guests (in main room)
Events Held Here:               Main: Large group activities
                                       Mtg: Panel's, Workshops, Kareoke

Sub Hotel 2: La Quinta

Meeting Space Available:     1,000 sq ft
                                       1 mtg room totalling 1,000 sqft
Accomodates:                    60 quests (in mtg room)
Events Held Here:               Creation Station/Art Workshop

Sub Hotel 3: Courtyard Downtown Marriot

Meeting Space Available:     1,800 sq ft
                                      1 mtg room totalling 600 sqft (50 people max)
                                      3 mtg rooms totalling 1,200 (breakout rooms 40 people each)
Accomodates:                   50/40 guests (per room depending on room)
Events Held Here:               Anime, Live Action and AMV Viewing Rooms

Sub Hotel 4: Crowne Plaza Hotel

Meeting Space Available:      9,348 sq ft
                                       1 mtg room totalling aprox 6,000 sqft (630 guest )
                                       10 mtg rooms totalling aprox 3,348 sqft (20 people each)
Events Held Here:               Main:
                                       Sub: Role Playing, Table Top Gaming, RPG's,
                                       Manga Library, Gaming Pit

______________________

Wow... that took me, an obnoxiously long time to put together.... hope I didn't miss any
of the important room neccesities... There is a little bit of leeway but looking at it all it
is feasible. It simply just wouldn't be much fun... but honestly... the fact that I was able
to come up with room for everything was kinda cool!

However, at any given time it looks like all the rooms could hold a max of... 5,360 people
and thats assuming something is always going on and people are maxing out all the main
ballroom type events. While I know that doesn't happen often... this set up still causes
limitation to max people in any given panel or workshop... just fyi

Hope this helps!

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Offline TanisNikana

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Re: 2011+ -- NON-CONVENTION Options (Multi-Hotel cluster near/around a park)
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2009, 07:34:52 pm »
I know me talking means nothing at all, but I would like to add my attendee hat into the OCC pile.

Offline MichaelEvans

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Re: 2011+ -- NON-CONVENTION Options (Multi-Hotel cluster near/around a park)
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2009, 07:43:37 pm »
:( I'm not sure how complete Google Earth's hotel coverage is, but I visually traced along the maxlines with the hotels enabled (and little else).  Even -dropping- the park issue it looks like the various downtown areas are the only potential solutions.

There were -quite- a few hotels downtown though, and while a Rose Center area multi-hotel scheme was just considered one a little bit north of where we were this year might (maybe) be possible.

Though I leave that as an exercise for others to look at. I need to get back to things that will either build my resume, find a (paying) job, or tend to daily living (dinner/etc).
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Offline @random

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Re: 2011+ -- NON-CONVENTION Options (Multi-Hotel cluster near/around a park)
« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2009, 10:32:05 pm »
Raise about 30 million and we can buy and rebuild, to suit our needs, the defunct hotel on Hayden Island :)  Outside of that, we have to deal with what we have. 

Wait? Why didn't we hear about this option before??!!!

*clears her throat*

Alright folks! you heard the man! 30 million dollars in two years!! Lets brush up on our host club skills and get to work!

:)

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Offline AllyKat

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Re: 2011+ -- NON-CONVENTION Options (Multi-Hotel cluster near/around a park)
« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2009, 11:45:46 pm »
@Random:

You are quite welcome, we could use a little lightheartedness on this subject...
part of me feels like we are in Halloween town;

Me: There's only 365 days left till the next convention!

Forumers: you mean 364!!

Me: AHHH!!! *panics*

Lol now we are down to 362!! Yikes!

But seriously... what do you all think of my "Brilliant" Multi-hotel plan?
is it what the original poster was thinking of?

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Offline melchizedek

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Re: 2011+ -- NON-CONVENTION Options (Multi-Hotel cluster near/around a park)
« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2009, 02:32:54 pm »
No one liked my multi marriot plan :(

So the waterfront one looks to have 25k meeting space.  And the river place has 5k of meeting space. 

So why didn't someone else shoot me down :P

Really, from an economic standpoint if the convention has less supply than there is demand at a certain price, the logical thing to do would be to raise the price to match the demand.
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Offline Daxe

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Re: 2011+ -- NON-CONVENTION Options (Multi-Hotel cluster near/around a park)
« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2009, 03:17:57 pm »
Can't vouch for the practicality of these, but:  

Masonic Temple (and Mallory Hotel across the street)

Doubletree (and Benson High Auditorium)

Doubletree (and a theater at Lloyd Center, in or outside the mall.  Perhaps some of the 3rd floor rooms as well)

Theater space at the Performing Arts Center or a theater at the Broadway?  

Also, is that square behind Nordstrom's going to be finished next year?  You might be able to hold some events out there, weather pending.  

We cannot rent movie theatres on Labor Day weekend.  It's too big of a money-maker weekend for them.  Also, we cannot do dances or concerts there.

Lloyd Center Mall did not want to rent us event space last year, ditto Pembrose.

Hotel Mallory has three meeting rooms, and is a luxury hotel.  

I assume Benson High is the school on the other side of 84?  Masses of people through those intersections?  Let's see, to start with, being city owned, we could not use Yojis and would have to use professional security.  Also, what if it rains?  Since they have no information online about renting the school, they are likely not set up for it.  Adding another use to a building would mean them having to revise the insurance policies.  I'll look into it, but them even being able to rent us space is kind os a huge longshot.  

For those uneducated in the ways of Benson Polytechnic High School. I graduated from there. Every year they rent to several different events in their main auditorium. They should have some info prepared in advance if you actually contact them for renting information.
This concept brings up another idea. Schools. I used to work for Portland Public Schools, Information Technology Department. I know that there are several schools that the school district has had to shut down for funding issues. Points of interest...
+Schools have an auditorium (great for AMV contests and plays and such)
+Schools have a gymnasium (great for dealers rooms or dances)
+Schools have lots of smaller to medium sized rooms, great for panels.
+The Portland Public School District Needs Money, they would be more likely to want to work out a deal to short term rent an abandoned school.
+There should be a wide range of shut down schools to choose from (elementary to high school)

Finding schools near hotels may be a bit of an issue, but if its a school near a max line or a school off a bus line or hell, even rent a school bus or two to shuttle people between hotels and said school, maybe consider having them sign a waiver saying they wont sue anyone should the shuttle bus get in an accident. (Longest run-on sentence ever)

I think with the right amount of hashing things out an abandoned school could be a great idea.

EDIT:
As a side note, schools tend to have decent amounts of parking and have attached parks for outdoor glomp circles.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2009, 03:20:25 pm by Daxe »


Offline @random

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Re: 2011+ -- NON-CONVENTION Options (Multi-Hotel cluster near/around a park)
« Reply #35 on: September 17, 2009, 04:19:50 pm »
Can't vouch for the practicality of these, but:  

Masonic Temple (and Mallory Hotel across the street)

Doubletree (and Benson High Auditorium)

Doubletree (and a theater at Lloyd Center, in or outside the mall.  Perhaps some of the 3rd floor rooms as well)

Theater space at the Performing Arts Center or a theater at the Broadway?  

Also, is that square behind Nordstrom's going to be finished next year?  You might be able to hold some events out there, weather pending.  

We cannot rent movie theatres on Labor Day weekend.  It's too big of a money-maker weekend for them.  Also, we cannot do dances or concerts there.

Lloyd Center Mall did not want to rent us event space last year, ditto Pembrose.

Hotel Mallory has three meeting rooms, and is a luxury hotel.  

I assume Benson High is the school on the other side of 84?  Masses of people through those intersections?  Let's see, to start with, being city owned, we could not use Yojis and would have to use professional security.  Also, what if it rains?  Since they have no information online about renting the school, they are likely not set up for it.  Adding another use to a building would mean them having to revise the insurance policies.  I'll look into it, but them even being able to rent us space is kind os a huge longshot.  

For those uneducated in the ways of Benson Polytechnic High School. I graduated from there. Every year they rent to several different events in their main auditorium. They should have some info prepared in advance if you actually contact them for renting information.
This concept brings up another idea. Schools. I used to work for Portland Public Schools, Information Technology Department. I know that there are several schools that the school district has had to shut down for funding issues. Points of interest...
+Schools have an auditorium (great for AMV contests and plays and such)
+Schools have a gymnasium (great for dealers rooms or dances)
+Schools have lots of smaller to medium sized rooms, great for panels.
+The Portland Public School District Needs Money, they would be more likely to want to work out a deal to short term rent an abandoned school.
+There should be a wide range of shut down schools to choose from (elementary to high school)

Finding schools near hotels may be a bit of an issue, but if its a school near a max line or a school off a bus line or hell, even rent a school bus or two to shuttle people between hotels and said school, maybe consider having them sign a waiver saying they wont sue anyone should the shuttle bus get in an accident. (Longest run-on sentence ever)

I think with the right amount of hashing things out an abandoned school could be a great idea.

EDIT:
As a side note, schools tend to have decent amounts of parking and have attached parks for outdoor glomp circles.

I think it's a great idea - IF there's a school capable of holding several thousand people within easy walking distance of a combination of hotels that can hold several thousand people. When estimating "easy walking distance," keep in mind that there have been several complaints about how the executive tower was too far, even though it was cat-a-corner to the hotel.

Otherwise, I'm very solidly in the hotel-cluster camp, especially if clustered around park and/or waterfront space. Being able to expand outside has immense value in reducing overcrowding.

The convention center would be the niftiest option... if it weren't for the added expenses and the fact that we're precluded from having our own yojimbo. Sakuracon's mandatory hired security are polite, but because the con can only afford a few, they're pretty close to useless at traffic control.
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Offline Roddy Manic

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Re: 2011+ -- NON-CONVENTION Options (Multi-Hotel cluster near/around a park)
« Reply #36 on: September 17, 2009, 05:12:49 pm »
I like the convention center idea far more then multi-hotels. And I would not mind paying some extra to enter the con so it can be there.

"Raise about 30 million and we can buy and rebuild, to suit our needs, the defunct hotel on Hayden Island" That is my fav Idea. ^^; Though I know unless some rich rich rich rich people see the profit posibility from it, I don't see it happening. (There are so many cons that would love a space suited for it. It can even bring profit to oregon by bringing more types of cons and more visiters to oregon.)

Offline @random

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Re: 2011+ -- NON-CONVENTION Options (Multi-Hotel cluster near/around a park)
« Reply #37 on: September 17, 2009, 10:13:51 pm »
I like the convention center idea far more then multi-hotels. And I would not mind paying some extra to enter the con so it can be there.

A definite price target might be illustrative, if someone could work up a very rough estimate. I suspect that it would be something akin to "$X00,000 + $Y per person." I.e. $600,000 plus $10 per person to rent the OCC would mean 6k people would have to pay $100 + $10 = $110 apiece, or 10k people would have to pay $60 + $10 = $70 apiece.

It's also worth noting that we have two frames of reference here: To people who stay in the hotel, the difference between $50 and $110 is negligible compared to a $400 hotel bill. But to locals, or people who crash with friends or split a room several ways, the difference is pretty major.

Not to mention that to people who would use the game/video rooms for sleep and bathroom sinks for hygiene (we all know they exist) if we have a 24-hour venue, the difference would be enormous since that stops being an option.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2009, 10:27:37 pm by randompvg »
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Offline DarkStar

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Re: 2011+ -- NON-CONVENTION Options (Multi-Hotel cluster near/around a park)
« Reply #38 on: September 18, 2009, 08:01:05 am »
A definite price target might be illustrative, if someone could work up a very rough estimate. I suspect that it would be something akin to "$X00,000 + $Y per person." I.e. $600,000 plus $10 per person to rent the OCC would mean 6k people would have to pay $100 + $10 = $110 apiece, or 10k people would have to pay $60 + $10 = $70 apiece.

It's also worth noting that we have two frames of reference here: To people who stay in the hotel, the difference between $50 and $110 is negligible compared to a $400 hotel bill. But to locals, or people who crash with friends or split a room several ways, the difference is pretty major.

Not to mention that to people who would use the game/video rooms for sleep and bathroom sinks for hygiene (we all know they exist) if we have a 24-hour venue, the difference would be enormous since that stops being an option.

But that's a total guess! It could just as easily be $60, $50, or $40 a piece... :)
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Offline @random

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Re: 2011+ -- NON-CONVENTION Options (Multi-Hotel cluster near/around a park)
« Reply #39 on: September 18, 2009, 09:22:56 am »
A definite price target might be illustrative, if someone could work up a very rough estimate. I suspect that it would be something akin to "$X00,000 + $Y per person." I.e. $600,000 plus $10 per person to rent the OCC would mean 6k people would have to pay $100 + $10 = $110 apiece, or 10k people would have to pay $60 + $10 = $70 apiece.

It's also worth noting that we have two frames of reference here: To people who stay in the hotel, the difference between $50 and $110 is negligible compared to a $400 hotel bill. But to locals, or people who crash with friends or split a room several ways, the difference is pretty major.

Not to mention that to people who would use the game/video rooms for sleep and bathroom sinks for hygiene (we all know they exist) if we have a 24-hour venue, the difference would be enormous since that stops being an option.

But that's a total guess! It could just as easily be $60, $50, or $40 a piece... :)

Absolutely true that it's a total guess. (^_^)

But given all of the extra expenses we've heard about that the OCC would cause, it's very unlikely that the cost would be lower than for hotel(s).
« Last Edit: September 18, 2009, 09:23:33 am by randompvg »
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Offline MichaelEvans

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Re: 2011+ -- NON-CONVENTION Options (Multi-Hotel cluster near/around a park)
« Reply #40 on: September 18, 2009, 10:30:56 am »
But that's a total guess! It could just as easily be $60, $50, or $40 a piece... :)
Or it could be $300,000 + $30/head.  At 10k that would be $330.  A bit towards the upper end of believable, and a definite repellent, but that could wind up being the cost after hired security is added.
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Offline Animeman73

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Re: 2011+ -- NON-CONVENTION Options (Multi-Hotel cluster near/around a park)
« Reply #41 on: September 18, 2009, 10:43:08 am »
This is a rather interesting conundrum you have Kumoricon staff. I think you may have to try the split hotel solution, if not this year...soon. Still, I give you props for keeping things economically solvent. These days one must watch one's pennies every place. However I'll be polite but bluntly frank, I believe it's only a matter of time before Kumoricon has to move into the Portland Convention Center. With the number of people from not just around the city but the country...and even the world coming in who are anime fans I believe that it's inevitable. Still Rathany, all Kumoricon staff I give you props for taking the cautious route. A little caution now and again kept the sheep out of the wolf's den I say.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2009, 08:22:37 pm by Animeman73 »
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Offline MichaelEvans

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Re: 2011+ -- NON-CONVENTION Options (Multi-Hotel cluster near/around a park)
« Reply #42 on: September 18, 2009, 10:49:09 am »
Oh I agree if we get up in to the 15000 mark any combination of normal hotels would cease being an option.  Though it sounds like this year our attendance wanted to hit around 7000; it would have been doable in a less congested area with a few extra rooms/spaces.
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Offline Daxe

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Re: 2011+ -- NON-CONVENTION Options (Multi-Hotel cluster near/around a park)
« Reply #43 on: September 18, 2009, 11:00:55 am »
I really really did hate the hilton this year, but if its growing pangs that you have to deal with, the heathman was right kitty corner to it. Split hotel is probably the best solution for next year. Does our contract limit us to just the Hiltons? Or can we have another contract with another hotel such as the heathman?


Offline AllyKat

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Re: 2011+ -- NON-CONVENTION Options (Multi-Hotel cluster near/around a park)
« Reply #44 on: September 18, 2009, 12:39:02 pm »
Oh I agree if we get up in to the 15000 mark any combination of normal hotels would cease being an option.  Though it sounds like this year our attendance wanted to hit around 7000; it would have been doable in a less congested area with a few extra rooms/spaces.

I still havent heard the ACTUAL attendance number from Beau since the closing ceremony...
which, due to being close to other screaming fans.. I'm pretty sure I misheard. What was the
end number? Does anyone know the true total? I keep hearing 6000 soft cap, or 5500 - 7000
people were at the convention.... but does anyone know the real number?

~Allykat
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