Author Topic: What the heck? (Read 5689 times)

catboy-trades · « **on:** September 05, 2009, 12:01:06 pm »

Okay is anyone else offended at how this con is going? The lobby is packed... there is no room to walk.. the hotel staff is yelling and pushing us...
Personally I am scared as hell because I saw people walking down the stairs to the rooms on the 10th and 7th floors with walkers and canes... they were trying to get to the lobby.

A hotel security member pushed a group of people and said, " WHEN I SAY MOVE I MEAN MOVE!" and I don't mean a gentle push but a full on shove!!

WHAT IS GOING ON? I tell you this... I have complained to the hotel... and so far they are taking the stand that it doesn't matter.
Customer service... wow... that went downhill.

I am truely never comming back to the con if it is at this hotel again. I mean that too.
I almost want to leave now because I don't feel safe from the hotel staff.

gladimus · « **Reply #1 on:** September 05, 2009, 01:02:50 pm »

I completely agree. In fact, I came home just to change into something without props because people kept bumping them and I went into a panic because it got too crowded and I had NO idea where I was going... And what's worse is when I got outside to cool off from the hellish temperatures of many bodies compacted in a room, I was told again to move by hotel staff by just standing outside. Someone wanted a picture, but couldn't take it because we were shoved in mid picture taking by the hotel security. We were outside when this happened. Multiple times I was rushed to take pictures and it was so cramped I barely got the chance to get them. I went to sit down to call my mom and stay out of the rain in a shelter area, and once again "You have to move!!!" So.. We have to be cramped in a building, or shoved around in the rain with no shelter? After this con I am going to write a VERY long, detailed, and angry review. Out of the 4 Kumoricon's I've attended and the 2 other conventions, this year has been the worst. It's so bad I heard tons of people say they were tempted to just pack up, go home, and never come back. It's THAT bad.

pyronine · « **Reply #2 on:** September 05, 2009, 05:44:03 pm »

we have been chatting about this in another thread http://www.kumoricon.org/forums/index.php?topic=11118.0 This is just not right. In fact it is illegal for the staff to touch any person under the age of 18 without parental consent. For those over the age of 18 it can be considered assault, if they forcibly shove you. As far as the outside goes, if you are on the steps in front or back, or blocking a door, or in a drive way, they have every right to move you. However, if you are not near any of those and are on the sidewalk, It is a public sidewalk and they can not force you to do anything, yet they can ban you from re-entry. I myself use a cane occasionally due to a back issue, and i can not stand the stairs, they need to dedicate one elevator strictly to handicapped people.

I have gotten to know a few of the officials, and will be passing on the information from catboy.

Blue Leader · « **Reply #3 on:** September 05, 2009, 07:38:52 pm »

If security is being rude than that needs to be taken up with the hotel. After all, I believe they work for the hotel and aren't hired by Kumoricon.
I, however, haven't seen or experienced any of this. Maybe I've just been at the right places... But I have been all over... >>

Actually, the only thing I had that was "weird" was when some guy I past on the street tried to pull off my helmet.

pyronine · « **Reply #4 on:** September 05, 2009, 07:59:15 pm »

I notified the higher ups in the K-con staff about this thread . they can not control the hotel staff only make recomendations to them.

Romo · « **Reply #5 on:** September 06, 2009, 12:49:52 am »

I completely agree on this, in fact I've been thinking about this all day now. It's not even just that they're rude, which they are, it's that they act like they don't want us there. I mean, I couldn't get a straight answer or good help from any of the hotel staff throughout the course of this first day. I had so much trouble finding the dealer's hall (The Parking Garage) and Panel Rooms(ANOTHER BUILDING) that I just gave up looking for them and went to let out some steam outside.

This is by far the rudest, worst planned out, and overall most dangerous con I've ever attended. It took me half an hour to get an elevator to the third floor, and they had CLOSED off the stairs so nobody could take them. I have no idea why but they had. Gosh...sorry but I just completely agree with you all and I had to give my two cents.

catboy-trades · « **Reply #6 on:** September 06, 2009, 01:07:16 am »

All I know is that I am never coming to this hotel ever again.
Or this convention ever again.

Kios · « **Reply #7 on:** September 06, 2009, 01:07:33 am »

Same here. This is my first ever con, but I kept thinking to myself "Wow... this isn't that well planned out..."
It got to the point where the final fantasy mock battle that I was supposed to attend... I had NO clue where it was... The security were rude as hell, and at one point I was shoved, the wire frame in my vivi hat getting damaged... I ended up just wearing the hat without the mask all day, IF I wore the hat at all... It made me decide not to wear it tomorrow, which is sad...

The staff have overall just been EXTREMELY rude, and I ended up leaving earlier then I had planned simply because I was sick of being treated badly...

pyronine · « **Reply #8 on:** September 06, 2009, 01:14:08 am »

Quote from: Kios on September 06, 2009, 01:07:33 am

The staff have overall just been EXTREMELY rude, and I ended up leaving earlier then I had planned simply because I was sick of being treated badly...

Which staff? the K-con or the hotel? From what i have seen it is the Hotel staff causing the issues, not the K-con.

bou12345318 · « **Reply #9 on:** September 06, 2009, 02:20:52 am »

Quote from: Romo on September 06, 2009, 12:49:52 am

I completely agree on this, in fact I've been thinking about this all day now. It's not even just that they're rude, which they are, it's that they act like they don't want us there. I mean, I couldn't get a straight answer or good help from any of the hotel staff throughout the course of this first day. I had so much trouble finding the dealer's hall (The Parking Garage) and Panel Rooms(ANOTHER BUILDING) that I just gave up looking for them and went to let out some steam outside.

This is by far the rudest, worst planned out, and overall most dangerous con I've ever attended. It took me half an hour to get an elevator to the third floor, and they had CLOSED off the stairs so nobody could take them. I have no idea why but they had. Gosh...sorry but I just completely agree with you all and I had to give my two cents.

I agree. Me and my friends spend 5 hours looking for the dealers room and the panels, only to find out they were in the PARKING GARAGE/LOT and the panels were in a DIFFERENT BUILDING. Plus the security staff were so RUDE I swear it looked like they were ready to jump at us. Out of all the K-cons i'v been to this has to be the worst con I have ever attended.

gladimus · « **Reply #10 on:** September 06, 2009, 09:44:31 am »

I have a feeling the staff at the hotel think they need to treat us all like kids. A lot of non-anime fans seem to think we're all just kids playing dress-up. And though we may get hyper, I think they also assume con-goers are rambunctious and stupid or something. Clearly the hotel staff have no idea how to respond to a large event like this. They don't understand that most con-goers are typically well behaved, respectful, and intelligent. Yeah a few people may get a bit too wild, but it's never been extremely bad.

I've never seen security for the hotels get THIS involved, it's ridiculous! The other hotels it felt like they just let us be free to have fun as long as it was within rules and regulations. In fact 2 years ago I think I remember some of the hotel staff dressed up too.

Someone really didn't discuss this con properly with the hotel staff...

avatar · « **Reply #11 on:** September 06, 2009, 10:06:32 am »

As a older attendee of Kumori Con i have seen it grow over the years. I have had a great time every year and made the most of the pit falls that arose at each con. I only have one thing to say, you have out grown your choice of venues. It is a full on convention so plan it as one. There are better locations with a more welcoming attitude toward convention attendees. I would suggest more thought and forward thinking in future planning. Also, to the attendees that have had bad experiences with hotel staff remember "they wear name tags for a reason". What if Hilton's management got 6000 angry email from pissed off hotel patrons about their staffs non-customer friendly attitude?

Bresslol · « **Reply #12 on:** September 06, 2009, 12:25:33 pm »

I'm going to play devil's advocate for a second.

In terms of only THE BUILDINGS AND THE STAFF THEY EMPLOY, what can Kumori do about it? I jokingly suggested to a few staff here to build more elevators. But honestly, the issues with the buildings themseves and how they are engineered is out of the convention's control.

For one, this is the first year they had the con at the Hilton. This means that they're planning this quasi-blindly. The only way they can improve is INPUT.

I'm personally having a fantastic time so far, and I still have a day and a half of the con to enjoy.

catboy-trades · « **Reply #13 on:** September 06, 2009, 01:03:35 pm »

Quote from: I, Jon on September 06, 2009, 12:25:33 pm

I'm going to play devil's advocate for a second.

In terms of only THE BUILDINGS AND THE STAFF THEY EMPLOY, what can Kumori do about it? I jokingly suggested to a few staff here to build more elevators. But honestly, the issues with the buildings themseves and how they are engineered is out of the convention's control.

For one, this is the first year they had the con at the Hilton. This means that they're planning this quasi-blindly. The only way they can improve is INPUT.

I'm personally having a fantastic time so far, and I still have a day and a half of the con to enjoy.

QUASI BLINDLY?

THEY POSTED YOUTUBE VIDS OF THE HILTON BEFORE THEY EVEN DECIDED WHERE TO HAVE IT!!!! Check out Youtube... Kumroicon 2009... it is all there.

gladimus · « **Reply #14 on:** September 06, 2009, 05:03:31 pm »

The staff were nicer today, as far as I could see. They were quieter and sounded like they were requesting and welcoming. But I think it was because someone must have told them they needed to cut out their attitudes. It's something, though.

Blue Leader · « **Reply #15 on:** September 06, 2009, 07:53:42 pm »

Quote from: gladimus on September 06, 2009, 05:03:31 pm

The staff were nicer today, as far as I could see. They were quieter and sounded like they were requesting and welcoming. But I think it was because someone must have told them they needed to cut out their attitudes. It's something, though.

Heh, I got the opposite. It seemed like today the staff was even more rude.
Maybe the staff just dislikes me... >>;;

Faaedab · « **Reply #16 on:** September 07, 2009, 12:37:24 pm »

I have already posted in the other thread with the similar discussion so if you want the full answer at least from my side, please check there: http://www.kumoricon.org/forums/index.php?topic=11118.30 but I will reiterate what I said there in the fact that as the convention itself, we have no say whatsoever about how the hotel security operates as we are in there space, so for now all we can do is have a little bit of extra patience and know that you are the better person for dealing with that kind of rude behavior and not retaliating (and truly, many thanks go out for that). I do believe that part of the problem is that they were unaware as to the magnitude of what was going on and they may have felt a little overwhelmed and gotten bent out of shape (please note I am in no way defending the way they were treating the con-goers as it WAS out of line). As for location, being that all we can do is go of our pre-reg numbers and act upon that until the day of con, we did what we could with where things were and how they were set up. Being that the problem areas are now known, crowding issues should be reduced at next years con but even if it negative feed back, please keep us up to date on what you feel we need to do to make the con better as the only way to do so is to hear from you, the con-goers. I would like to thank all of you that have attended and I am sorry for any issues and problems you had this year but hope to see you back next year.

EveofAbyss · « **Reply #17 on:** September 07, 2009, 01:11:02 pm »

This wasn't the first year it was at a Hilton hotel. 2007 was at the Hilton in Vancouver and it was the best Kumoricon yet in my experience.

I just think the whole convention this year was a clusterbasket of confusion and failed planning. I agree with what has been said before, Kumoricon has vastly grown past the simple "Hotel-Con" Existence. This year proves that it cannot exist and function properly in a hotel anymore. It is a convention that needs a convention center now. That's what the building is for. Let's use it.

I already have seen and heard a chorus of negative backlash from this year's difficulties, and I have to say their justified. Kahlan and I are already settled on not returning to Kumoricon next year (or ever until the location/planning issue is resolved...more to come on the various troubles there). This just is not worth the trouble it caused.

melchizedek · « **Reply #18 on:** September 07, 2009, 04:46:17 pm »

Quote from: EveofAbyss on September 07, 2009, 01:11:02 pm

Kahlan and I are already settled on not returning to Kumoricon next year (or ever until the location/planning issue is resolved...more to come on the various troubles there). This just is not worth the trouble it caused.

Sorry to hear that

do like seeing you and your cool cosplays at k-con

EveofAbyss · « **Reply #19 on:** September 07, 2009, 04:48:55 pm »

Yeah, we're bummed, but we just think it is the best choice for the time being. It is only a matter of paying for Kumoricon and not enjoying the aspects we attend for. We certainly don't plan on abandoning Kumoricon, just want to hold off for a while and observe how things progress before throwing ourselves in for another year.

melchizedek · « **Reply #20 on:** September 07, 2009, 04:50:47 pm »

I'm debating if I want to do next year too if it is any consolation.

Darknight2433 · « **Reply #21 on:** September 07, 2009, 04:54:01 pm »

I'm with you, Eve. I'm really considering waiting until a bit more of a convention fitting what I would like in a convention to happen. I missed finding a lot of my friends, and it's of course not Kumoricon's fault, but with all of the problems piled together, I would just generally prefer not stressing over a convention that I don't have to go to.

EveofAbyss · « **Reply #22 on:** September 07, 2009, 04:55:23 pm »

Quote from: melchizedek on September 07, 2009, 04:50:47 pm

I'm debating if I want to do next year too if it is any consolation.

Sorry, Paul. Hopefully you were able to do your duties smoothly this weekend and had a decent time. I know there's no single source of the problems, just a trial and error period, so I can only hope that the Kumoricon staff, volunteers, and the like all made it through the weekend in one piece, lol.

Quote from: CatchxMe on September 07, 2009, 04:54:01 pm

I'm with you, Eve. I'm really considering waiting until a bit more of a convention fitting what I would like in a convention to happen. I missed finding a lot of my friends, and it's of course not Kumoricon's fault, but with all of the problems piled together, I would just generally prefer not stressing over a convention that I don't have to go to.

My thoughts exactly. It's like you channeled my keyboard as I was typing, lol.

Hazuza · « **Reply #23 on:** September 07, 2009, 05:09:43 pm »

Quote from: catboy-trades on September 06, 2009, 01:03:35 pm

Quote from: I, Jon on September 06, 2009, 12:25:33 pm
I'm going to play devil's advocate for a second.

In terms of only THE BUILDINGS AND THE STAFF THEY EMPLOY, what can Kumori do about it? I jokingly suggested to a few staff here to build more elevators. But honestly, the issues with the buildings themseves and how they are engineered is out of the convention's control.

For one, this is the first year they had the con at the Hilton. This means that they're planning this quasi-blindly. The only way they can improve is INPUT.

I'm personally having a fantastic time so far, and I still have a day and a half of the con to enjoy.

QUASI BLINDLY? THEY POSTED YOUTUBE VIDS OF THE HILTON BEFORE THEY EVEN DECIDED WHERE TO HAVE IT!!!! Check out Youtube... Kumroicon 2009... it is all there.

The contracts were already signed and decided before those videos were posted. Don't blame the con for the hotel's problems. We're stuck here too, apparently, since they only rent out the place in 2-year contracts. Sucks, but if we have enough complaints, and better yet, harassment claims, we can probably get a different locale.

But yeah, I'm debating next year too... I want to sell again in the AA, so I'll probably just stay in there the whole time if I come next con.

leonmasteries · « **Reply #24 on:** September 07, 2009, 05:29:35 pm »

I have to admit that this one was just a bunch of confusion that really could have been avoided... The hotel and staff really weren't either ready, or they didn't want us there... Because the way the staff was t words us wasn't good, they were fairly mean and very unhelpful. But ya, K-Con does need to get a convention center now do to the vast size it has had these past 2 years... But ya, as for attending, I might go just to see if things work out better than they did.

DooFeRthePanda · « **Reply #25 on:** September 07, 2009, 10:40:15 pm »

no way ever i'm coming back to kcon. its not worth the money. my sisters were dissapointed and so was my friend. it was their first con and it ruined them.

and it was terribly unorganzied because there were more panels in the executive tower and it was raining outside and you had to run across the street getting wet and ruining you cosplay.

guh...just the fact this whole con sucked. last year was THE BOMB though T_____T

what a waste of traveling and all the time planning.

Miyako · « **Reply #26 on:** September 08, 2009, 12:19:42 am »

Once I got used to where things were, the hotel itself wasn't so bad to navigate. I also noticed that the hotel staff calmed down a ton as the weekend went by. Overall, the whole weekend was a bit of a disappointment, but I'm looking forward to next year. I think it will go a lot smoother, and no offense to anyone, but saying you won't come back because of one weekend is slightly unfair. The K-con staff can't really do anything about the contract. They're not the ones at fault for the lack of fun, so to speak. Most likely the hotel staff will know what to expect and actually be prepared for it for 2010.

I'm excited to see what's going to happen next year. Even if the staff is rude next year, It's not going to ruin my entire experience.

That's just my 2 cents.

Rushifa · « **Reply #27 on:** September 08, 2009, 01:22:02 am »

Ok, I honestly think everyone is overreacting to this a bit. Yes, the hotel staff was very rude and inconsiderate, and that is unacceptable. Yes, the place was overcrowded and a bit poorly organized. Yes, the elevator situation was abysmal. It sucks, but these things happen. Each year is different, so you're bound to get some years that are wonderful, and some years where everything that can go wrong does.

I heartily agree that a lot about this year sucked. But to be perfectly honest, like everything in life, a con is what you make of it. You can be pissed of and angry and focus on all the negative, or you can deal with the negative and focus on having the most fun that you can.

I feel very sorry for all of you who had your first experience be this year, but you have to realize that this is not a typical year. There are usually lines and crowds and somewhat slow elevators, but usually this is kept to a minimum, and Kumoricon staff is always trying to do what they can to make it as good as possible for us. It's always a bit chaotic, but it's chaotic in that fun, makes-for-good-memories type of way, instead of wanting you to punch the next security guard who tells you to MOVE just because you stopped to check your map.

Ironically, I think the best year we've had so far (hotel-wise) was at the Vancouver Hilton. They were so kind to us, and so excited to have us there, it's just too bad their in Vancouver. But remember how rude the Red Lion was to us? They weren't as bad as this Hilton, but they kept moving our stuff around, and gave our main Ballroom away. We've had ups and downs, it happens. You never know, next year might be the best year yet.

That said, I think we should all send letters of complaint to the hotel. They need to know they can't treat customers with so little respect, and as was mentioned above, maybe if there enough official complains we'll be able to break our contract. We really are too big for this hotel, and I don't think even the best organization and the most attentive staff will be able to change that fact.

Kimiski · « **Reply #28 on:** September 09, 2009, 02:21:09 am »

If staff base weather or not we should move into a con center based on pre-reg and other attendence, not attending itsn't really going to help move us to that goal. Just saying.

I honestly think things will get better next year, and then everyone can put their input for a con center at the rant and rave next year, where they can talk directly with staff. Just stay in a hoptel near by next year instead of the actual hilton. There was one right across the street our group saw when waiting in line outside.

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Author Topic: What the heck? (Read 5689 times)