Author Topic: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...  (Read 22865 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline KaZzu

  • Cabbit
  • *
  • Posts: 24
Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
« on: September 08, 2009, 07:10:06 pm »
I'm sure these complaints have been stated numerous times, but I feel like I need express my dissatisfaction with Kumoricon with the hopes that someone who has some sort of authority within Kumoricon can try and make some changes. I planned my weekend to have two days at PAX in Seattle and have two days at Kumoricon and I really regret wasting the money, time, and missing the last day of PAX. I also feel bad for wasting the time of my friend from Las Vegas that came up for the weekend too =/

My gripes-

- Badges: Being asked to pay $3 for a lanyard was a slap to the face by itself, but coupled with enforcing people to have badges in the middle of their chest was absurd. I have never had to deal with this much trouble about badges at a con before and this has been a repeating trend at Kumoricon. As long as I had it and could show it (usually on my waist and I would hold it out when someone was checking) other cons I have attended (Sakuracon, Anime Evolution, Anime Expo, PAX; all for several years) we're happy to let me through and have NEVER given me trouble. MAYBE if I wasnt in costume and lanyards were being given out with badges it would be a little more reasonable to ask to have it around my neck, but seriously, are you going to make cosplayers go through that? Not only does it ruin our pictures, but its also hard to take on and off in costume, especially if you have a styled wigs, hair/head pieces, etc.

- Con staff: My experience with staff at Kumori has always been terrible (save for a small handful of nice people). This was my third year attending and it seems to be a constant trend. The staff are rude and have a big "no" attitude about them. I know there are stupid people at cons, but at least treat me like a person before you decide whether im one of them or not. Waited in line for the cosplay competition and was told they we're letting in ticketed people first, then we could get in if there was room. Waited for the lady to check the room and she let us down the escalator to watch the competition, only to get yelled at by the staff horde guarding the door which included the con chair. After getting yelled at, we explained what the situation was (as they were still talking over us) and FINALLY got the message through and they let us in. They also must have had a good 5 minute period where no-one had entered the room because we had to wait up-top for clearance. What a pain in the ass.

- Location: It sucked, pretty much it. Not really something that anyone can be blamed for especially since it was a new venue, but it was just bad. I think someone told me that they are going to hold it there again next year, but I really nope not for the sake of those attending.



As for things I enjoyed, it was fun to hang out with friends and the gaming room was a little less rude than last year (the normal staff were still rude but the couple of people running it were pretty cool). Also, the few hotel staff I delt with were really nice and understanding.


All in all, my friends and I wont be attending next year and I dont think we're alone. Especially with PAX (which was amazing as usual) falling on the same weekend, Kumoricon was a big waste. I blew about $60 in gas, $70 in prereg for myself and my gf, and $140 plus taxes and parking, altogether over $300 to attend and it was really disappointing =/

Offline MiriaRose

  • Bunnygirl
  • *****
  • Posts: 3155
    • The Kingdom of Heaven
Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2009, 07:14:05 pm »
Hey, guys, read the stickies.
"Would you kindly. ."

Offline KaZzu

  • Cabbit
  • *
  • Posts: 24
Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2009, 07:19:02 pm »
Hey, guys, read the stickies.

Quote
If you would like to offer feedback for Kumoricon staff, please post in this forum.

Offline MiriaRose

  • Bunnygirl
  • *****
  • Posts: 3155
    • The Kingdom of Heaven
Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2009, 07:59:45 pm »
Hey, guys, read the stickies.

Quote
If you would like to offer feedback for Kumoricon staff, please post in this forum.
Quote
Please do not create any more new threads for reviews or general con feedback; post in one of the generic threads already existing.
"Would you kindly. ."

Offline KaZzu

  • Cabbit
  • *
  • Posts: 24
Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2009, 08:07:40 pm »
Hey, guys, read the stickies.

Quote
If you would like to offer feedback for Kumoricon staff, please post in this forum.
Quote
Please do not create any more new threads for reviews or general con feedback; post in one of the generic threads already existing.

I'd like this to (hopefully) be read, not drowned in a sea of people raging in another thread because the con is getting a bad rap.

Offline babysugarbear28

  • Chibi
  • ***
  • Posts: 389
Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2009, 01:17:39 am »
I understand both sides of the Lanyard debate and I will just say my minor piece and then leave you in peace.

For years now we have had people gripe about being forced to wear the lanyards due to just what you are complaining about about styled hair and it being hard to get off or getting in the way of pictures. That is why this year for once Lanyards were Not Required and clips were attached to the badge holders so that they could be clipped to the chest area and re/moved with ease for picture ops and such then reattached after.

We ask that your badge is at about chest height because with the shear number of people who attend each year and with the location having many obstacles at waist height (railings, tables, siding on escalators) it made it much easier for staff to see your badge when you are walking through halls and into panels, events and alike. In this thought having badges at chest level make it less likely for us to bug you, stop you or make you late by having to detain you for a badge check which can hinder you, your group or especially in areas like the escalators hinder those behind you.

I understand that not being given a free lanyard this year can be a slap in the face after being forced to wear one for so many years at this convention and that having to pay 3 dollars seems like a bad thing for something that was enforced before, but we did this to accommodate both sides of the coin.

Those of you that wanted lanyards could still purchase them or wear ones from previous or other conventions you have attended (I know I have a bunch of them) and those of you that wanted something easy to remove for pictures and such were able to have something that you could remove with ease for picture opportunities but still place where we asked for your ease and ours.

I sincerely hope that you do return in future years if not next year. Please enjoy the rest of your year and next year's PAX.

Offline Fevenis

  • Sailor Scout
  • **
  • Posts: 89
Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2009, 10:57:07 am »
Hope I was one of the nice gaming staff you delt with  ;)

Offline AllyKat

  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 804
Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2009, 11:55:25 am »
So... um....

The fact that 99% of the time I had my badge on the bottom of my shirt (kinda by my hip) was a non-kosher thing? I apologize! I figured as long as it was clearly visible (My long hair tends to cover up things on my chest and stomach) It would be okay.... Oy! So many rules I just didnt know about.... I felt so bad for this poor staff who (upon the elevator opening) counted us out and found 11 of us in the elevator on Sunday afternoon. She balked at our fopaa and said "You can't have this many people in the elevator!!! You are only allowed 10 at a time!" (we were coming down to the lobby) I replied that I was sorry and that I didn't know but she stammered on trying to explain that previously it was only 7 and that we were abusing our privilages. I feel bad about it now but I looked her dead in the eyes and said "I did know about this rule, no one told me about it so you can't fault me for getting on an elevator and breaking a rule I knew nothing about!" She didn't seem to really hear me (it was loud in the lobby...) but I still feel bad for being upset. I just hate getting in trouble and get very defensive when people start telling me I've done something wrong when I know I havent! LOL I'm good at customer service but lousy at personal critique! I think thats another thing we need to add to our list of things to do for next year;

Item line #467: All Convention Rules and Regulations must be provided to Kumori-con Attendees prior to the convention. If a rule or regulation must be changed or added durring the convention, it must be posted clearly and visibly for all convention attendant knowledge in convinient or pertinent areas.

Weeetwhoo that sure sounds business like...

Kurogame: Why did you say "wheetwhoo" instead of whistling???

~Allykat
2009 - Attendee
2010 - Facilities Liaison
2011 - Director of Publicity
2012 - Director of Publicity
2013 - Facilities Liaison
2014 - Vice Chair

Offline Silvamord

  • Cabbit
  • *
  • Posts: 14
    • My DeviantART
Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2009, 01:34:56 am »
I understand both sides of the Lanyard debate and I will just say my minor piece and then leave you in peace.

For years now we have had people gripe about being forced to wear the lanyards due to just what you are complaining about about styled hair and it being hard to get off or getting in the way of pictures. That is why this year for once Lanyards were Not Required and clips were attached to the badge holders so that they could be clipped to the chest area and re/moved with ease for picture ops and such then reattached after.

We ask that your badge is at about chest height because with the shear number of people who attend each year and with the location having many obstacles at waist height (railings, tables, siding on escalators) it made it much easier for staff to see your badge when you are walking through halls and into panels, events and alike. In this thought having badges at chest level make it less likely for us to bug you, stop you or make you late by having to detain you for a badge check which can hinder you, your group or especially in areas like the escalators hinder those behind you.

I understand that not being given a free lanyard this year can be a slap in the face after being forced to wear one for so many years at this convention and that having to pay 3 dollars seems like a bad thing for something that was enforced before, but we did this to accommodate both sides of the coin.

Those of you that wanted lanyards could still purchase them or wear ones from previous or other conventions you have attended (I know I have a bunch of them) and those of you that wanted something easy to remove for pictures and such were able to have something that you could remove with ease for picture opportunities but still place where we asked for your ease and ours.

I sincerely hope that you do return in future years if not next year. Please enjoy the rest of your year and next year's PAX.

I actually did appreciate the clips. I've never liked the lanyards because they get in the way of my costume and often get tangled up in props. Thanks for implimenting this!

Offline ThiefKingsHier

  • Catgirl
  • ****
  • Posts: 534
Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2009, 09:57:25 pm »
 Okay. The hotel choice was the failest fail to ever fail.

 We got it. Unless locked into a contract I think i can safely say that it wont be held there again.

  I was a bit bored and didn't go to many of the panels but anymore I find that at any convention because I'm just difficult to keep entertained.
I go to conventions knowing this and manly go for photo shoots, going to dinner/ 'room parties' with friends. So I wont complain about that. ( However i would suggest more interactive games like Cosplay Chess and murder mysteries. I enjoy those very much)

I'v pretty much lost my faith in anything good at Sakuracon but I still go there. Ill be damned if I'm going to support them and not Kumori.

The only thing that would keep me form attending is if for some crazy reason it were held at the same place.

Offline Hazuza

  • Bunnygirl
  • *****
  • Posts: 1119
    • DeviantArt
Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2009, 10:18:29 pm »
We got it. Unless locked into a contract I think i can safely say that it wont be held there again.


You've missed a key point here.

Offline ThiefKingsHier

  • Catgirl
  • ****
  • Posts: 534
Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2009, 10:34:50 pm »
We got it. Unless locked into a contract I think i can safely say that it wont be held there again.


You've missed a key point here.

Then why don't you enlighten me?

Offline Rathany

  • Bunnygirl
  • *****
  • Posts: 1178
Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2009, 10:36:51 pm »
We got it. Unless locked into a contract I think i can safely say that it wont be held there again.


You've missed a key point here.

Then why don't you enlighten me?

Kcon is in a 2-year contract with the Downtown Hilton. 
2003 - 2006 Kumoricon Attendee
2007 - Assistant Registration Manager - PreReg Side
2008 - Vice Chair
2009/2010 - Director of Relations
2011 - Return to Vice
2012 - herp derp

Offline MichaelEvans

  • Catgirl
  • ****
  • Posts: 731
Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2009, 10:56:02 pm »
Though I do agree... I don't think Kumoricon is likely to sign an agreement with this hotel in the future unless it has terms that reflect the -vast- mis-fitting for holding our current attendee count properly.

The only problem is, as discussed elsewhere; there isn't much else around that is a great fit either.

Unless we want to strangle I think we're going to really -have- to do multiple hotels in 2011; though the only real options are all pretty much within the fairless square or off the maxline -entirely- (Any good constructive suggestions?).
---
Staff 2007-2010
2010-2008: Website Development (So very very much in the last month before the convention at last; Good thing I'm looking for work x.x and have the spare time ~.~)
2007: Website Administration (Mascot Voting Input, Live Schedule)

Offline ThiefKingsHier

  • Catgirl
  • ****
  • Posts: 534
Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2009, 11:26:32 pm »
We got it. Unless locked into a contract I think i can safely say that it wont be held there again.


You've missed a key point here.

Then why don't you enlighten me?

Kcon is in a 2-year contract with the Downtown Hilton. 

I hadn't seen that here anywhere.

Too bad they can't break it off for the horrible way everything was handled.

Offline catboy-trades

  • Sailor Scout
  • **
  • Posts: 73
Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2009, 09:49:01 pm »
We got it. Unless locked into a contract I think i can safely say that it wont be held there again.


You've missed a key point here.

Then why don't you enlighten me?

Kcon is in a 2-year contract with the Downtown Hilton. 

I hadn't seen that here anywhere.

Too bad they can't break it off for the horrible way everything was handled.

They won't.  Costs too much money and as stated by one of the staff here on the forum " It would give Kumoricon a bad rep for breaking their contract." Thing is though... if Kcon breaks the contract because their people were treated horribly by a place then breaking said contract would show that kcon has their attendees in the best interest.  However since this is due to money I wonder what next year will be like.  If it is a replay of this year then I have a feeling something bad will happen.  Espeically since one forum poster advised that " attendees should grow a backbone and do something about it."  Now some people might take that into a different meaning and I hope nothing bad happens but as Han Solo said in the trash compactor, " I've got a bad feeling about this."

Offline MichaelEvans

  • Catgirl
  • ****
  • Posts: 731
Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2009, 11:37:43 pm »
I find it highly, and I mean -very- highly unlikely we'd hold 2011 where we were this year (2009).  Yet as noted elsewhere all the hotel  options are Hilton owned.

I hope Publicity is able to announce is a definitive board-approved result on the 2011+ venue well in advance of the convention this year.  Or at the very least that we can announce it during opening ceremonies/at convention/etc.  That way even if the best laid; and we'd better have them well laid out after a whole convention to figure out the bugs and a whole year to work on ways of addressing them; plans fail our salvation might be the prevention of that mess through a better venue.
---
Staff 2007-2010
2010-2008: Website Development (So very very much in the last month before the convention at last; Good thing I'm looking for work x.x and have the spare time ~.~)
2007: Website Administration (Mascot Voting Input, Live Schedule)

Offline BigGuy

  • Catgirl
  • ****
  • Posts: 732
Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2009, 09:19:00 am »
Quote
Thing is though... if Kcon breaks the contract because their people were treated horribly by a place then breaking said contract would show that kcon has their attendees in the best interest.

I have said it elsewhere, but if we break a contract with the Hotel, for any reason, We could get blacklisted from that hotel chain(Hilton in this case and all the other names Hilton owns) and the Hotels talk to each other about groups and events so we probably wouldn't be able to get a hotel after that.
And now I'm a catgirl?

The voice of the one I love
was all I could hear as I lay broken in the darkness
My own voice faltered
My wings no longer had the strength to fly
 -Lagoon Engine Einsatz-

Offline AllyKat

  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 804
Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2009, 11:59:24 am »
Quote
Thing is though... if Kcon breaks the contract because their people were treated horribly by a place then breaking said contract would show that kcon has their attendees in the best interest.

I have said it elsewhere, but if we break a contract with the Hotel, for any reason, We could get blacklisted from that hotel chain(Hilton in this case and all the other names Hilton owns) and the Hotels talk to each other about groups and events so we probably wouldn't be able to get a hotel after that.

For some reason.... any time we talk about this whole "breaking contracts" sillyness... it makes me feel like
we are working with the mafia or something....

Staff: hey guys, c'mon, they made us an offer we couldn't refuse, 2 years of security is hard to come by."

Forumers: Well, why don't you just break the contract? They didn't treat us very well."

Chair: Listen, if we break contract, every guy in town's gunna know were yellow, and we AREN'T yellow. We
will follow through with this contract, because not following through would mean we'd never see another
sunshiney convention again. It'd be curtains, Kumori-con'd be sleeping with the fishes in the willamette."

Forumers: There are fish in the willamette?"

~Allykat
2009 - Attendee
2010 - Facilities Liaison
2011 - Director of Publicity
2012 - Director of Publicity
2013 - Facilities Liaison
2014 - Vice Chair

Offline Kurokaizoku

  • Chibi
  • ***
  • Posts: 315
Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2009, 07:25:21 pm »
Quote
Thing is though... if Kcon breaks the contract because their people were treated horribly by a place then breaking said contract would show that kcon has their attendees in the best interest.

I have said it elsewhere, but if we break a contract with the Hotel, for any reason, We could get blacklisted from that hotel chain(Hilton in this case and all the other names Hilton owns) and the Hotels talk to each other about groups and events so we probably wouldn't be able to get a hotel after that.

For some reason.... any time we talk about this whole "breaking contracts" sillyness... it makes me feel like
we are working with the mafia or something....

Staff: hey guys, c'mon, they made us an offer we couldn't refuse, 2 years of security is hard to come by."

Forumers: Well, why don't you just break the contract? They didn't treat us very well."

Chair: Listen, if we break contract, every guy in town's gunna know were yellow, and we AREN'T yellow. We
will follow through with this contract, because not following through would mean we'd never see another
sunshiney convention again. It'd be curtains, Kumori-con'd be sleeping with the fishes in the willamette."

Forumers: There are fish in the willamette?"

~Allykat

I just have to say, you crack me up. And I also appreciate your views. You seem very understanding of the situation and quick to stop the fires.
'07- Console Gaming staff. First con. Ever.
'08- Console Gaming staff.
'09- Console Gaming Manager.
'10- Console Gaming Assistant Manager
'11- Con Suite Manager
'12- Live Events Assistant Manager

Offline AllyKat

  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 804
Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2009, 04:22:50 pm »
I just have to say, you crack me up. And I also appreciate your views. You seem very understanding of the situation and quick to stop the fires.

Awww! Thankies! I always find all it takes is a little humor to make people see that the stress of worrying over
the uncontrollable, isn't worth the gray-hairs and the wrinkled cosplay outfit! We will survive! Even if I have to
go capture a Ho-oh and teach it Sacred Fire myself! We will rise from the ashes and become a more brilliant,
more amazing convention! Woot!

~Allykat

This message brought to you by a random combonation of Mike's Pink Lemonade and Amped, go figure.
2009 - Attendee
2010 - Facilities Liaison
2011 - Director of Publicity
2012 - Director of Publicity
2013 - Facilities Liaison
2014 - Vice Chair

Offline Griff_the_dragoon

  • Bunnygirl
  • *****
  • Posts: 1757
    • Skype
Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2009, 11:16:40 pm »


Kcon is in a 2-year contract with the Downtown Hilton. 
[/quote]
Does that mean it will be there again next year???
cause if it is that would be a big uppset

China bound!!!

Offline ScrumYummy

  • Sailor Scout
  • **
  • Posts: 118
Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2009, 11:11:02 am »
There are fish in the willamette?"

They have six eyes.

Offline AllyKat

  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 804
Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2009, 01:37:09 pm »


Kcon is in a 2-year contract with the Downtown Hilton. 
Does that mean it will be there again next year???
cause if it is that would be a big uppset
[/quote]

Is this still not common knowledge? I'm not saying you are by any means out of the fruit-loops
but, cereal? Maybe this means there needs to be an announcement of some kind put up so
people will know we are AGAIN at the Hilton... Though I think the meeting in October should
cover that.

To summarize for people who have not heard:

Con staff knows things sucked at K-con '09!
Hotel Staff knows they sucked at K-con '09!
We will be @ Downtown Hilton for K-con '10!
Everyone is eager to make this a better con!
There will at LEAST be a soft cap for K-con '10.
There will probably be a hard cap for K-con '10.
We need MANY more staff for K-con '10.
We are over our pain about K-con '09 and look forward to K-con '10!

The End!

~Allykat

P.S. @ ScrumYummy; And legs! They have legs now! I saw it!
2009 - Attendee
2010 - Facilities Liaison
2011 - Director of Publicity
2012 - Director of Publicity
2013 - Facilities Liaison
2014 - Vice Chair

Offline catboy-trades

  • Sailor Scout
  • **
  • Posts: 73
Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2009, 04:00:59 pm »


Kcon is in a 2-year contract with the Downtown Hilton. 
Does that mean it will be there again next year???
cause if it is that would be a big uppset

Is this still not common knowledge? I'm not saying you are by any means out of the fruit-loops
but, cereal? Maybe this means there needs to be an announcement of some kind put up so
people will know we are AGAIN at the Hilton... Though I think the meeting in October should
cover that.

To summarize for people who have not heard:

Con staff knows things sucked at K-con '09!
Hotel Staff knows they sucked at K-con '09!
We will be @ Downtown Hilton for K-con '10!
Everyone is eager to make this a better con!
There will at LEAST be a soft cap for K-con '10.
There will probably be a hard cap for K-con '10.
We need MANY more staff for K-con '10.
We are over our pain about K-con '09 and look forward to K-con '10!

The End!

~Allykat

P.S. @ ScrumYummy; And legs! They have legs now! I saw it!
[/quote]

But can't we still complain about it?  right?

Offline AllyKat

  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 804
Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2009, 08:21:25 pm »
But can't we still complain about it?  right?

Oh most certainly! Complain away... I was just suprised people didn't know...
I thought it was all the scandal Saturday afternoon at the con to tell people;

"oh my gosh! the people here are soooo rude! why did they choose this hotel? Have you
heard they made a contract with this place for two whole years?"

I think i heard that or similar statements about the common areas more than 10 times that
afternoon... it was the buzz of the con. But, it makes sense that some people don't know,
and that begs the question of, if it's better they find out now, or later when we have things
starting to get rolling for '10. Maybe that will make people think it's a choice, not so much
as hands tied behind a contract....

Because I like the idea that, we may have been ABLE to get out of this contract (maybe not
but the idea is sound) but the truth of the matter was that we didn't WANT or NEED to. We
know the problems and with team work and elbow grease, we can fix'em and make a layout
we now know well, a great place for our con.

Does that sound about right?

~Allykat
2009 - Attendee
2010 - Facilities Liaison
2011 - Director of Publicity
2012 - Director of Publicity
2013 - Facilities Liaison
2014 - Vice Chair

Offline xxxchihiroxxx

  • Bunnygirl
  • *****
  • Posts: 2561
    • My deviantart
Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2009, 04:17:02 pm »
similar to what allykat is saying, Ive said this to a few people who I know are complaining about the con being in the same location next year but heres the fact of the matter:

k con will be better in '10. NO matter if its at the hilton or not. I believe k con staff had a chat with hotel staff about the conduct of some of their employs, and k con staff i do believe are aware of the bigt issues with the 09 con, and are working on solutions if some have not yet been found.

Dont doubt the staff, 09 wasnt the greatest year, but I'm counting on the fact that next year will be an improvement. My big issues seem to have been taken care of already from what ive read by posts made by k con staff on the forums.
returning with a vengeance to K con~

oslapedo

  • Guest
Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2009, 04:22:54 pm »
I'm not going to KCon '10 because of location; there's nothing staff can change about where it's at for '10 which is why I won't bother. Good luck to those who do b

Offline AllyKat

  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 804
Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2009, 07:29:25 am »
I'm not going to KCon '10 because of location; there's nothing staff can change about where it's at for '10 which is why I won't bother. Good luck to those who do b

This'll sound harsh because I hope you will be back in 2011 but.... Is it not a good thing for me
to say I'm a tinsy winsy bit happy some people are not coming back? Barring the horrible Idea
that the con has reached it's peak attendance (I don't want to believe it!) The fact that a hard
cap will quite possible be imminent and a soft cap is garunteed... we will probably have less
available con reg's anyway... so maybe it's for the best some people who just cannot stand the
crowding, the staff, the heat, the location, the security, the fan boys.... heh whatever reason
they may have... maybe it's better some of them stay home and wait it out till 2011. It still sends
a message to Convention staff that 2011 probably needs a big overhaul, but it also permits those
who WEALLY WEALLY want to go but may not be able to get there tickets till late, to still have
a chance... but I digress.

There is always the chance that the Flying Spaghetti Monster, in it's infinite noodles, will cast a
great miracle over the conspace, allowing it to expand beyond comprehensible space and fire code
laws to permit more people into the convention! But... it would take a lot of people in pirate regalia
and a lot of dancing to pull THAT one off...

~Allykat
2009 - Attendee
2010 - Facilities Liaison
2011 - Director of Publicity
2012 - Director of Publicity
2013 - Facilities Liaison
2014 - Vice Chair

Offline Teasel

  • Catgirl
  • ****
  • Posts: 551
    • Facebook goodness
Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2009, 12:28:41 am »
...I think I was one of the only people who didn't have a negative experience with K-con OR Hilton staff this year.
"Yes, that's a gun in my pants. But that doesn't mean I'm not happy to see you."

Offline MichaelEvans

  • Catgirl
  • ****
  • Posts: 731
Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
« Reply #30 on: October 01, 2009, 12:50:48 am »
You're not the only one who lacked a -truly- negative experience.  However I can summarize my experience in a few points.

  • Dealer's room: This is the first year I had to actually -search- to find things worth liquidating my cash on.
  • Lines: I saw -way- too many lines laid out in ways that I know were caused by on the moment changes to plans dictated by forces beyond Kumoricon, and possibly even beyond the hotel.  I very much hope that next year we can arrange a meeting between members of the board, the hotel, and the proper civil authorities (fire marshals etc) to have a written and approved plan in place for doing things more sanely.
  • Elevators: I've suggested various other changes elsewhere, there isn't really an awesome solution but there has got to be a better way; re: planning things in advance with the hotel. (* I felt this partly on Saturday, before I learned staff could use other routes...)
  • Panel Explosions: There were a few events I really wanted to see.  The viewing rooms tended to work out.  The adult panels seemed... distinctly undersized and I heard horror stories about other adult panels in the same room on other nights.  Probably the only way this could be avoided would be knowing which events would be popular and ticketing them similar to how stores use presales to gauge how much to order. (*New suggestion*)
  • Nickel and Dollared to death: $10 a day for Internet?  In rooms -that- pricey?  Honestly hotels with rooms costing half the discounted rate often thrown it in.  If I'd known sufficiently in advance (my own fault) I would have tried to arrange a prepaid data plan or something...  Absolutely horrid and I hope that part of the hotel goes bankrupt and they get rid of that utter waste.
---
Staff 2007-2010
2010-2008: Website Development (So very very much in the last month before the convention at last; Good thing I'm looking for work x.x and have the spare time ~.~)
2007: Website Administration (Mascot Voting Input, Live Schedule)

Offline AllyKat

  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 804
Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
« Reply #31 on: October 01, 2009, 06:18:44 pm »
    Nickel and Dollared to death: $10 a day for Internet?  In rooms -that- pricey?  Honestly hotels with rooms costing half the discounted rate often thrown it in.  If I'd known sufficiently in advance (my own fault) I would have tried to arrange a prepaid data plan or something...  Absolutely horrid and I hope that part of the hotel goes bankrupt and they get rid of that utter waste.
    [/li][/list]

    That is a constant with Hilton, and not likely to change. The hotel I work for any many other 2-3 Star hotels offer
    free wireless because it is normally lower quality than what hilton provides or it's cheaper to offer free wireless and
    attract cheaper bussiness guests than it is to have empty rooms due to not being able to cater to people who travel
    on bussiness. Hilton has the luxury of name and constant flow of guests and, since the demand for the net is still
    there, even at such a price, they continue to charge it. The only possible way the hilton chain would stop charging
    for wireless or internet access would be if the majority of hotels noted a significant drop in use enough to justify either
    pulling there wireless offerings or making it free/cheaper.

    It's just the way of the big business!

    ~Allykat
    2009 - Attendee
    2010 - Facilities Liaison
    2011 - Director of Publicity
    2012 - Director of Publicity
    2013 - Facilities Liaison
    2014 - Vice Chair

    Offline ThiefKingsHier

    • Catgirl
    • ****
    • Posts: 534
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #32 on: October 27, 2009, 11:56:29 pm »


     I'd just like to say that it is unlikley I will attend next. However, I realize that most if not all of the major problems were the fault of the Hitlin and not Kumori-con.
    If it were being held at a different Hotel next year I would attend.

    Offline AllyKat

    • Administrator
    • *******
    • Posts: 804
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #33 on: October 29, 2009, 07:27:59 pm »
    While I cannot sway your opinion myself (I respect that things were not great last year and
    doesn't warrant your attention a second year from the hotel) might I offer up a glimmer of hope:

    A lot of what went wrong seems to just be the "newness" factor. Let me explain;

    -Whenever a large event is held at a new location, a lot of the feelings of shiny "newness" make
    themselves the most forefront in everyone's minds. People who are working on logistics tend to
    see an empty, large and very nice space with a lot of fancy words like "large maximum capacity"
    and "free reign of the 2nd lobby balcony" that may seem like the perfect option when all is quiet
    and serene but in application turns into a nightmare that no one, not even k-con staff were completely
    prepared for.

    This is really no one persons fault. When an event moves from place to place, like an oprhaned child, it must adjust and come to terms with the perks and faults this new place presents. We have to make new friends every time we move, learn the rules and learn the culture, get the feel for the layout and make the neccessary changes to our plans.

    The trick here is that all of these changes had to be made on the fly; and the hilton (right hand) didn't know what the K-con staff (left hand) was doing at all times which made for grumpy, over worked staff on both ends. THAT is not your (the k-con goers) fault, but it might make you feel better to know that no one was honestly trying to be angry at anyone else, it just wasn't working for everyone and we all got a little frustrated.

    Without continuing on on another one of my amazing rants, let me finish with this:

    2 years in the same place allows us some AMAZING benefits. Think about this:

    1.Everyone who works at the hilton KNOWS what type of group we are, even if new people are hired on and never saw us, they will be told what goes in to making K-con run smoothly.
    2.Hilton WANTS  our business, they do not want to break contract and in this economy for tourism, it pays to have big groups like us, they will do everything in their power to make this work!
    3.Everyone who works for K-con staff who is returning to do the same in 2010 knows the problems we had this year and are hard at work thinking of ways to make it more efficient and easier to do everything and anything in 2010! Less problems because we know, and remember; "KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE!"
    4.Many people who were upset or concerned with the staffing or problems at Kcon 09 are signing up to help with staff THIS YEAR! (Like me!) More staff = smoother function! You are going to have more people helping you have a great con, which should be very exciting to everyone!

    Thats 4 reasons why, if you think about it, Kumoricon at Downtown Hilton 2010 is going to be a bigger bash than ever before! Bad press from 09 asside, much of what went wrong is stuff that CAN be fixed because we have a whole year to dream up the answers! I'd counsel anyone who is boycotting K'10 to watch the forums, and go to the meetings and listen to what is being done to make things better before they decide they feel Kumoricon will be the same squishy sardine fest it was this year... I am going to do everything in my power (as are many of the super-power having board members) to make sure that doesn't happen!

    ~Allykat

    P.S. and... that was way too long anyway... sorry guys.
    2009 - Attendee
    2010 - Facilities Liaison
    2011 - Director of Publicity
    2012 - Director of Publicity
    2013 - Facilities Liaison
    2014 - Vice Chair

    Offline ThiefKingsHier

    • Catgirl
    • ****
    • Posts: 534
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #34 on: October 30, 2009, 05:33:03 pm »
    No one to blame?
    Logistics ( or whomever is directly responsible for choosing the Hotel) made a mistake. They need to admit it, accept the consequences and learn not to make the same mistake again.

    It's they're job to find a good spot to hold the convention.  If they can't see past the 'shiny new words' then they aren't very good at it.
    I know it sounds 'mean' but I'm firm believer that if people are given a job they need to do it right or find something they're better suited for.

    I really can't see how next year will be any better. It's a tiny hotel. No matter how many different directions you turn it, you can't force a square peg in a round hole.

    Also, the Hilton were far less than pleasant. I doubt you can change that.
    I hope that somehow next year is more enjoyable and I will see you the yearr after.




     

    Offline kylite

    • Bunnygirl
    • *****
    • Posts: 1287
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #35 on: October 30, 2009, 06:11:38 pm »
    rather then complain and blame, offer alternatives. you dont like the hotel? name one that can hold 6000 people within the portland oregon area. seriously.
    Yojimbo Assistant Manager, Hopeless Flirt
    Work: Monday-Friday 12:30-9:39pm
    We don't need Kira... we have kylite.  - randompvg

    Offline AllyKat

    • Administrator
    • *******
    • Posts: 804
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #36 on: October 30, 2009, 07:21:34 pm »
    If it weren't for the fact that I'm bored to tears I probably wouldn't reply to this with anything
    more than a; "A few things I said seemed to be misunderstood but I get your possition and
    respect it." But, since I have absolutely nothing to do at the moment and some time to kill, I
    figured I'd clairfy, hopefully to your advantage (and anyone elses)

    No one to blame?
    Logistics ( or whomever is directly responsible for choosing the Hotel) made a mistake. They need to admit it, accept the consequences and learn not to make the same mistake again.

    Duly noted, but that was not the wording I used. I said "No One Person is to blame" meaning, while I recognize the errors made by persons unnamed, I believe that many sets of hands touched this project in the same area and found it to be in good form, not realizing certain small issues which would eventually snowball into deeper problems.

    Many people have admited that errors were made, but no one, not even myself can say that the error was made when they chose the hotel. Lets look at what the hotel provides and compare to other hotels we have stayed at in the past:

    NAME                   ROOMS AVAIL                   CONF ROOMS           MAX ATTEND IN CONSPACE

    DTHILTON/Exec       782 (w/2 beds: 333)         66,000 sqft               4000 in rooms + 500 in foyers

    DblTreeLlyod           476 (w/2 beds: 217)         46,500 sqft               2500 in rooms + 200 in foyers

    VAN-HILTON           226 (w/2 beds: 139           30,000 sqft              2900 in rooms + 200 in foyers


    Please be aware that other than the OCC which at this time is IMPOSSIBLE for K-con to book the set up with DownTown Hilton is the LARGEST and most CONVINIENT way to go. Trust me, I've checked and done the research personally and found no cost-effective way to do it anywhere else in the area. We just do NOT have the facilities available to us. Downtown Hilton has plenty of rooms for guests which keep our costs low and plenty of meeting space that we are coming up with new ways to use and keep ready so that queue lines will be lower. It's all about preparation now.

    That being said please remember that we are most likely going to have a HARD CAP on registration this year, this means that only as many as the hotel and K-con staff see fit can register and come to the festivities that Kumoricon will have. This in-turn equals less traffic and congestion over-all for the con.

    Speaking of staff...

    It's they're job to find a good spot to hold the convention.  If they can't see past the 'shiny new words' then they aren't very good at it.
    I know it sounds 'mean' but I'm firm believer that if people are given a job they need to do it right or find something they're better suited for.

    I hate to sound cruel and I know your intentions are just in pointing out that some people may not be qualified for the jobs they do but, it was my understanding that due to circumstances beyond anyone's control, many of the auxillary members of the Kumoricon board possitions were NOT filled last year. Things like Facilities Liason and Staff Coordinators... heck even the Chair of K-con was shipped off to war and his possition had to be very suddenly shifted over to our wonderful Beau Gentry! This is all VOLUNTEER WORK. No one gets paid to work day in and day out to make this convention go off, so expecting it to be perfect is like expecting your complimentary meal on a plane to be made by a 5 star chef, it would be nice but it's just not realistic.

    To put it simply, it is not our place to criticize the hard work these people do for no reason other than to try and make Kumoricon happen every year. We can let them know how they did, ways they can improve next year, but is an inconsiderate gesture to decide that it is "their fault" that bad things happen, and that kind of talk can cause good members of the board to decide it's not worth it to continue to try and make a good Convention if all they ever get is flack. With an already skeleton level executive board and a very small staff as it is, we cannot afford to start making our volunteers walk the plank.

    Yes people should be able to do the job they are given but no one is perfect, these people are not paid and you cannot expect ANYTHING of them, but be greatful for what you do get. We pay for the content, and we get the excellent service, things go wrong and it's amazing how well they handled it, I really applaud the staff for there on the ball way of dealing with the problems as they arose.

    Finally;


    Also, the Hilton were far less than pleasant. I doubt you can change that.
    I hope that somehow next year is more enjoyable and I will see you the yearr after.


    Yes I know I left out the bit about it being a tiny hotel, because even if you believe that, the other hotel's and bussiness centers in the area are just as, if not smaller, and the only other bigger thing in
    town is NOT FEASIBLE. And if you want more information on WHY look for the video of Dawn's expose on how hotel's work!

    I understand people were far less than pleasant to you; it sounds like you had a personal encounter with a really grumpy staff member. If you did, I'm sorry, it happened and I know. If you didn't and just heard about other peoples encounters you should know they were NOT the majority. Most people had a fun time and got to places easily or semi-easily. Problems abound but it didn't not destroy the con experience for MOST people.

    As for the Hilton staff you should know that MANY OF THEM were working 16 hour days in the security field and others were working extra shifts at front desk, people who had days off were being called in to support the other staff. As anyone can tell you, being called in on your day off, working double shifts and not getting your breaks will make you a bit short with people, and while it's not excuseable, it is understandable. The execs at the hotel KNOW what happened, and realize what they did wrong and will beef up staff in ALL areas to prepare for us next year. This means that NO ONE will be working 16 hour shifts every single day of the convention like they did this year, NO ONE will be called in on their day off to cover a possition that wasn't covered by standard staff, and NO ONE will miss their breaks! (*knock on wood*) Added bodies mean the people dealing with customers will be refreshed and happy and they WILL be ready to serve and help us!

    ______

    Hope all that clarification helps your understanding of the future of Kumoricon, any other questions or concerns or opinions don't hesitate to voice them!

    ~Allykat
    2009 - Attendee
    2010 - Facilities Liaison
    2011 - Director of Publicity
    2012 - Director of Publicity
    2013 - Facilities Liaison
    2014 - Vice Chair

    Offline ThiefKingsHier

    • Catgirl
    • ****
    • Posts: 534
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #37 on: October 30, 2009, 11:06:04 pm »
     

     I guess I should be more specific-it was not so much the square footage but the lack of elevators. Not only did this make it impossible to get to the rooms but crowded the lobby with giant lines.

    Also, the Hotels we've had in the past may not have had as much in square footage but have been directly across from a park, or other large open space so people didn't spend as much time inside.

    I'm saying the same thing you are about the mistake-it was a mistake, learn from it.
    On a more constructive note- don't we have someone to go to these sites in person to scope it out for themselves? If not I think that would be the first thing learned from this.

    Oh,  I understand the higher-up Hilton staff may have made a much larger 'mistake'. I heard that they are closing down thus, they probably lied about how much they could handle  to get the money.

    I guess you didn't run into the man shoving and yelling insults at attendees. I don't care HOW 'stressed' you are that man should been fired on the spot.

    Offline AllyKat

    • Administrator
    • *******
    • Posts: 804
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #38 on: October 30, 2009, 11:57:32 pm »
    I feel like if I'm not careful here, this is going to turn into an argument very quickly. That said, I'll continue to try and answer
    your points. Much of what you have surmized and thus found as "problems" have been addressed previously:

    Elevators: Okay, yes, the elevators... oy... for people trying to get to their rooms this was a hassle, no doubts there. I think
    many proposals are being made (I even have one for operations) to smooth out the congested times and make moving from your
    room to the event areas a bit more feasible, that being said this is the crux of the problem. But NOTHING anyone says or does
    is going to magically build any more elevators at ANY hotel. And if you think it was bad getting to your room here, trying stuffing
    that many people through the elevators at double tree, you'd have the fire marshals and the hotel screaming about how many
    people were trying to use the elevators at any given time constantly, not just at peak times. Perhaps we could use your very
    logistical brain to come up with a solution for the people moving problem?

    Outside Space: Welcome To Downtown Portland, where you can go in ANY direction and find fun stuff to do. There is Pioneer Place,
    the mall with tons of shops and a food court, there is Court House Square with a great area to eat a lunch, listen to music and catch
    a max to any number of great entertainment destinations. Plus it turned out to be a great spot for photo ops when it wasn't raining.

    A park is just a park, and the Convention staff cannot "book" that kind of land for anything, at Dawn's little meeting we talked about how
    K-con almost got in trouble in years prior and WOULD have been in serious trouble if it could have been proved that the parks were being
    used officially by K-con staff. Holding anything in a public park means K-con staff cannot have any jurisdiction over it. Whereas, if we
    decide to allocate money to it, we could Book parts of Pioneer Ct House Sqr and get security that can maintain that area for us for outdoor
    fun!

    Mistake, Learn From it: They did and they have, both sides. No one is out to get you, the Kumoricon Convention Attendee. We all want
    you to have an excellent experience and return! Problems arose, and you mentioned some, but barely any of it is stuff that isn't already
    being fixed in just preliminary talks, the rest they are working on. I talked a bit on elevators above but if you are concerned with moving
    about the con space and getting everywhere instantly, welcome to convention life, even at Sakuracon there are lines and more lines, it
    happens. Everyone who comes to a convention just needs to put on their "When at Disneyland" mask and just have fun, allow yourself to
    be herded, queued and seated in places and just enjoy the sights and sounds and you will have a much better time than if you were
    forcing yourself into areas to try to get somewhere as fast as possible. Have to wait 10 minutes for a elevator going up to your floor? Why
    not strike up a conversation with the guests around you? Trying to get downstairs? Consider the stairs as one option for the high traffic times
    and then board a elevator going up and make some friends along the way! Besides, you might end up on the 23rd floor and kareoke was
    really smashing up there!

    Hilton Exec: I didn't really say that.... I don't know where you got that Idea... sounds like what you have at your arsenal is a good amount of
    the old rumors we heard about 10 days after the convention was over. Most of the previous year's (and some of them are the returning) exec
    board have debunked a lot of this. There is no proof that the Hilton is going out of business, they are shutting down intermittently durring
    the winter;
    http://blog.travelpost.com/2009/09/04/hilton-portland-to-shut-down-this-winter/
    But this was a descision made earlier in the year that our board knew about, and was infact to prevent them from really hurting with the economy
    the way it is.

    Mr. Shove and Yell: Actually I probably did see him, and I talked with several of the people who were ubsurdly angry the whole time. I found out
    a lot of them were given little information until very late in the game and when I thanked them for working with us and for understanding we are
    just here to have a good time, and asked them if they had ever seen any anime's, they lightened up immediately. Suddenly they were being treated
    like human beings instead of "The Big Bad Hotel Staff" or "The Human Direction Post". A lot of these people are used to high class and pompous
    business guests who don't require the same attention we do. It was a culture shock for us to deal with 5 star hotel staff as convention staff and
    it was culture shock for them to deal with 20 somethings in home made colorful costumes asking about things like "Bang Bang Neko" panels and
    pocky club's whereabouts. It all probably sounded exactly like japanese to them, making them confused and frustrated and feeling like they were
    wrangling 8 year olds for a barney convention. So thats how they started treating it, and it seemed to make things easier. When I started treating
    them like how I want to be treated at my hotel, their demeanor changed instantly to the standard hotel concierge type person, at least until
    someone started trying to go the wrong way down the walk way or tried to sneak by them down the escalator. ^_^ it's all in how you viewed it.

    While I wont deny that it was incredibly wrong of them to be rude and incosiderate and angry, I do understand that it was all a matter of
    miscommunication and confusions with rule changes that didn't apply to our type of group. As a frequent customer service worker (many jobs
    titles but the same job) I know better than most that sometimes, the customer is NOT right, and while I don't know every given situation, I
    can tell you I saw a lot of really abnoxious young and old people expecting that since they knew this or that, they ought to be allowed to do
    whatever it was convention staff or hotel staff wasn't letting them do. Infact, I watched on while waiting for a panel to open in LIVE 1, a young
    man bicker with that poor guy who was probably their almost the entire convention about his mask and why it was "THE STUPIDIST Blanking THING
    IN THE Blanking WORLD THAT YOU CANT WEAR A MASK IN THE Blanking HOTEL!" I was shocked, because the poor guy (right or wrong for asking
    the guy to take off his mask) was just relaying the message that had been set forth by the hotel and was getting chewed out by a kid just because
    he didn't like the rules... sometimes i wonder how long before customer service dies due to the inconsiderate actions of those who think they
    own the world just because they paid to be there.

    Oh, and as a side note, if anyone shoved you, you should have filed a police report then and there for assault or at the very least filed a complaint
    with hotel management, because touching you is NEVER okay, no matter what.

    ~Allykat
    2009 - Attendee
    2010 - Facilities Liaison
    2011 - Director of Publicity
    2012 - Director of Publicity
    2013 - Facilities Liaison
    2014 - Vice Chair

    Offline @random

    • Bunnygirl
    • *****
    • Posts: 933
      • Google+
      • Cosplay.com account, dreadfully outdated
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #39 on: October 31, 2009, 08:07:21 pm »
    Nickel and Dollared to death: $10 a day for Internet?  In rooms -that- pricey?  Honestly hotels with rooms costing half the discounted rate often thrown it in.  If I'd known sufficiently in advance (my own fault) I would have tried to arrange a prepaid data plan or something...  Absolutely horrid and I hope that part of the hotel goes bankrupt and they get rid of that utter waste.

    AllyKat already said it pretty well, but I'd like to throw in my 2 cents:

    I went down South last week to visit family and stayed in a Motel 6, which was a third of the price at the normal rate. They didn't charge for parking, even though there was literally none to be had within several blocks. And 300k+ wi-fi was $3 a day. I could probably rack up a long list of examples, except that I learned a long time ago to not even bother looking at the "upsell" services Big Name hotels offer - they're always ridiculously overpriced.

    So why does the Hilton charge ridiculous amounts for parking, even though there are lots several times cheaper right across the street? Or for wi-fi, even though there's a Starbucks right across the street? My answer is slightly different from AllyKat's... because they think they can. No doubt, there are executives who don't care because the one-stop billing makes it easy for them to charge on the company card. And there are normal people who'll grumble and bear it because they don't know to look for cheaper alternatives. But those kind of customers will get few and far between in this economy, and the rest (like you and I) will be somewhere between annoyed and outraged. Not a good way to stay in business.

    At best, "upselling" has become synonymous with the "Would you like fries with that milkshake?"-esque nonsense that retail workers hate to say and retail customers hate to hear. At worst, it's more like the innkeeper Thenardier bragging in Master of the House (from Les Miserables):
    Quote
    Charge 'em for the lice / Extra for the mice / Two percent for looking in the mirror twice
    Here a little slice / There a little cut / Three percent for sleeping with the window shut
    When it comes to fixing prices / There are a lot of tricks he knows
    How it all increases / All those bits and pieces
    Jesus, it's amazing how it grows!
    « Last Edit: October 31, 2009, 08:22:42 pm by randompvg »
    This is my serious voice. Otherwise, I'm just another anime fan, not a moderator.

    Offline ThiefKingsHier

    • Catgirl
    • ****
    • Posts: 534
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #40 on: October 31, 2009, 09:46:47 pm »


     Okay, I take it back. I'm won't not be attending next convention because the venue was too small. I will not be attending because K-con apparently has no problem with hiring staff who are condescending and unproffesional.

    FYI- I do think that most of the staffers ae very awesome but well, it just takes a few bad apples.

    Offline MichaelEvans

    • Catgirl
    • ****
    • Posts: 731
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #41 on: October 31, 2009, 10:11:56 pm »
    You say -hiring- staff.  Kumoricon hires no staff, no board members etc.  Kumoricon staff are 100% unpaid volunteers, some of which fulfill many hours of service and thus are 'staff' positions; in fact we also pay, though slightly less than pre-reg.

    Kumoricon does enter in to contracts with private establishments which might actually hire people to fulfill services.  For example the down-town hilton, or the double-tree hilton, or the Vancouver (hilton again IIRC).  If we pay lots of money and rent a park; or insane quantities of money and rent the convention-center (which BTW, as explained many times elsewhere has NO hotels contractually associated to reduce the cost in exchange for booked rooms) we would be required to use hired professional security; very highly accredited professional security on the order of nearly police-officer trained.
    ---
    Staff 2007-2010
    2010-2008: Website Development (So very very much in the last month before the convention at last; Good thing I'm looking for work x.x and have the spare time ~.~)
    2007: Website Administration (Mascot Voting Input, Live Schedule)

    Offline AllyKat

    • Administrator
    • *******
    • Posts: 804
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #42 on: November 01, 2009, 01:09:41 am »
    You say -hiring- staff.  Kumoricon hires no staff, no board members etc.  Kumoricon staff are 100% unpaid volunteers, some of which fulfill many hours of service and thus are 'staff' positions; in fact we also pay, though slightly less than pre-reg.

    Kumoricon does enter in to contracts with private establishments which might actually hire people to fulfill services.  For example the down-town hilton, or the double-tree hilton, or the Vancouver (hilton again IIRC).  If we pay lots of money and rent a park; or insane quantities of money and rent the convention-center (which BTW, as explained many times elsewhere has NO hotels contractually associated to reduce the cost in exchange for booked rooms) we would be required to use hired professional security; very highly accredited professional security on the order of nearly police-officer trained.

    And they wont be near as nice to you about ANYTHING as the yojimbo or the hotel security...

    They are trained for crowd control, not pleasing the masses.

    ~Allykat
    2009 - Attendee
    2010 - Facilities Liaison
    2011 - Director of Publicity
    2012 - Director of Publicity
    2013 - Facilities Liaison
    2014 - Vice Chair

    Offline ThiefKingsHier

    • Catgirl
    • ****
    • Posts: 534
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #43 on: November 01, 2009, 01:10:25 am »
    You say -hiring- staff.  Kumoricon hires no staff, no board members etc.  Kumoricon staff are 100% unpaid volunteers, some of which fulfill many hours of service and thus are 'staff' positions; in fact we also pay, though slightly less than pre-reg.

    Kumoricon does enter in to contracts with private establishments which might actually hire people to fulfill services.  For example the down-town hilton, or the double-tree hilton, or the Vancouver (hilton again IIRC).  If we pay lots of money and rent a park; or insane quantities of money and rent the convention-center (which BTW, as explained many times elsewhere has NO hotels contractually associated to reduce the cost in exchange for booked rooms) we would be required to use hired professional security; very highly accredited professional security on the order of nearly police-officer trained.



    You don't need to worry about that. The last thing I want is for K-con to rent public space.  Back when SC staffers thought the y had jurisdiction in a public park we had security demanding people stop taking shonen ai photos.

    I do have more faith in the KC security, but power does corrupt, sadly.
    « Last Edit: November 01, 2009, 01:18:08 am by ThiefKingsHier »

    Offline kylite

    • Bunnygirl
    • *****
    • Posts: 1287
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #44 on: November 01, 2009, 01:22:32 pm »
    not on my watch it doesn't
    Yojimbo Assistant Manager, Hopeless Flirt
    Work: Monday-Friday 12:30-9:39pm
    We don't need Kira... we have kylite.  - randompvg

    Offline xcthulhux

    • Bunnygirl
    • *****
    • Posts: 1436
      • MAI BLOG
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #45 on: November 01, 2009, 01:57:37 pm »
    not on my watch it doesn't
    kylite's quote of the year.

    truely BA

    Offline AllyKat

    • Administrator
    • *******
    • Posts: 804
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #46 on: November 01, 2009, 11:26:26 pm »
    not on my watch it doesn't
    kylite's quote of the year.

    truely BA

    I agree, I feel much safer knowing Sir Kylite is around to protect us from the evil baddies and
    the uncertainties that come with convention life. Even reading those words on the forums
    just has an air of BA-ness and masculinity that I have found common in his posts.

    In regards to ThiefKingsHeir:

    I hope for our sake your wrong, but then again thats why no possition holds absolute power.
    everyone answers to someone, and someone answers to everyone. In the end no person can make
    an "executive decision" on their own... it takes several people in this organization to make a change:

    Welcome to Bureaucracy!

    NOTE: In a funny happenstance, my first run through I accidentally spelt bureaucracy "BEAUracracy"

    Fruedian slip? Or is Beau's hair planning a hostile takeover?

    Either way I wouldn't be worried, this convention has a lot of great people wanting to make it amazing,
    and all of us are well versed in the ways of cheesey anime evil-doers, no soft yet clearly meniacal hair
    or other demonic plot will bring Kumoricon down... NEVER!!!

    Which is just another way of saying; "It's cool, they know what they are doing, they've done this before."

    ~Allykat
    2009 - Attendee
    2010 - Facilities Liaison
    2011 - Director of Publicity
    2012 - Director of Publicity
    2013 - Facilities Liaison
    2014 - Vice Chair

    Offline @random

    • Bunnygirl
    • *****
    • Posts: 933
      • Google+
      • Cosplay.com account, dreadfully outdated
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #47 on: November 02, 2009, 09:22:21 am »
    (snip snip snip) ...then again thats why no position holds absolute power.
    everyone answers to someone, and someone answers to everyone. In the end no person can make
    an "executive decision" on their own... it takes several people in this organization to make a change:

    Welcome to Bureaucracy!

    NOTE: In a funny happenstance, my first run through I accidentally spelt bureaucracy "BEAUracracy"

    Fruedian slip? Or is Beau's hair planning a hostile takeover?

    Either way I wouldn't be worried, this convention has a lot of great people wanting to make it amazing,
    and all of us are well versed in the ways of cheesey anime evil-doers, no soft yet clearly meniacal hair
    or other demonic plot will bring Kumoricon down... NEVER!!!

    Which is just another way of saying; "It's cool, they know what they are doing, they've done this before."

    ~Allykat
    Personally, I don't think cheesy Muahaha-style evil-doers are that scary... it's the ones who mean well but something got twisted along the way that scare me. Almost all of us have been that person at one time or another, even though we don't mean to be.

    But even that turns out okay in the end... 'cause like you said, everything averages out. There are people like kylite to straighten us out when we go wrong, people like you to bring us back up with a little warmth and kindness when we're down, people like Beau to be a little nutty to remind us that we shouldn't take everything so seriously, people like big Chris who can make us smile no matter what, and so on. (^_^)

    One of the best thing about anime conventions is that they're like an extended family in some ways. We have a lot of common bonds that most of our other friends don't really get. Even though we squabble and get mad at each other, we make each other better people. Maybe it's too idealistic, but I even believe we love each other like family... well, most of the time. (^_~) Maybe not so much when someone's the tenth person in an hour that's screamed in our ear about "the game", but most of the time I think we do.
    This is my serious voice. Otherwise, I'm just another anime fan, not a moderator.

    Offline AllyKat

    • Administrator
    • *******
    • Posts: 804
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #48 on: November 02, 2009, 01:48:20 pm »
    Oh My gosh darlin!

    Your post made me feel so much better! And you are right! We are the
    brady bunch sorta! We all have a role to play and that role, when combined
    with all the other roles makes us an amazing team with true power to make
    good things happen!

    Gosh, that just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside, knowing that other
    people totally view all this the same why I do... I thought I was just a bit
    over zealous and way to optimistic! But it's true, if everyone pitches in, even
    if it's just a little time here or there, it can really add up and that addition
    makes everyones life and convention experience easier!

    You are never going to get rid of all the nay sayers, but I know that comments
    like yours certainly make people who have been doing this for years and years,
    or people who just need a warm smile and a positive comment feel rejuvinated,
    ready to take on the next year of convention planning with vigor and vym!

    Wow, now I'm all smiley at work.... and I'm not even trying! Thats totally a
    omen that today is a good day! Everyone be happy! I don't think I'll have to
    post anything in the complaint section today! Yay!

    ~Allykat
    2009 - Attendee
    2010 - Facilities Liaison
    2011 - Director of Publicity
    2012 - Director of Publicity
    2013 - Facilities Liaison
    2014 - Vice Chair

    Offline ThiefKingsHier

    • Catgirl
    • ****
    • Posts: 534
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #49 on: November 04, 2009, 06:18:39 pm »
    (snip snip snip) ...then again thats why no position holds absolute power.
    everyone answers to someone, and someone answers to everyone. In the end no person can make
    an "executive decision" on their own... it takes several people in this organization to make a change:

    Welcome to Bureaucracy!

    NOTE: In a funny happenstance, my first run through I accidentally spelt bureaucracy "BEAUracracy"

    Fruedian slip? Or is Beau's hair planning a hostile takeover?

    Either way I wouldn't be worried, this convention has a lot of great people wanting to make it amazing,
    and all of us are well versed in the ways of cheesey anime evil-doers, no soft yet clearly meniacal hair
    or other demonic plot will bring Kumoricon down... NEVER!!!

    Which is just another way of saying; "It's cool, they know what they are doing, they've done this before."

    ~Allykat
    Personally, I don't think cheesy Muahaha-style evil-doers are that scary... it's the ones who mean well but something got twisted along the way that scare me. Almost all of us have been that person at one time or another, even though we don't mean to be.

    But even that turns out okay in the end... 'cause like you said, everything averages out. There are people like kylite to straighten us out when we go wrong, people like you to bring us back up with a little warmth and kindness when we're down, people like Beau to be a little nutty to remind us that we shouldn't take everything so seriously, people like big Chris who can make us smile no matter what, and so on. (^_^)

    One of the best thing about anime conventions is that they're like an extended family in some ways. We have a lot of common bonds that most of our other friends don't really get. Even though we squabble and get mad at each other, we make each other better people. Maybe it's too idealistic, but I even believe we love each other like family... well, most of the time. (^_~) Maybe not so much when someone's the tenth person in an hour that's screamed in our ear about "the game", but most of the time I think we do.

    I really hope your right and for the most part I do agree but there will always be the argument of " Sakura-con" THAT is a lost cause and KC is connected to them, isn't it?



    Offline kylite

    • Bunnygirl
    • *****
    • Posts: 1287
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #50 on: November 04, 2009, 06:25:16 pm »
    much like a parent is conected to a child
    but that does not make the child the parent or vice versa
    « Last Edit: November 04, 2009, 07:56:33 pm by kylite »
    Yojimbo Assistant Manager, Hopeless Flirt
    Work: Monday-Friday 12:30-9:39pm
    We don't need Kira... we have kylite.  - randompvg

    Offline ThiefKingsHier

    • Catgirl
    • ****
    • Posts: 534
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #51 on: November 04, 2009, 06:32:42 pm »
    much like a parent is conected to a child
    but that does not make the child the parent or vice versa

    Wut? You speak like a politician you know.

    *edited to match above post*
    « Last Edit: November 04, 2009, 07:56:58 pm by kylite »

    Offline AllyKat

    • Administrator
    • *******
    • Posts: 804
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #52 on: November 04, 2009, 06:34:32 pm »
    I am not sure what argument you are refering to in terms of Sak-con...

    But, I will let you know that you needn't worry about Kumoricon becoming
    Sakura-con. At least not in the close years. We don't have the funding, the
    backing, the attendance rate or staffing to be that big. We also have the
    problem of being too close to Sakura-con to justify being just like them.

    They are an industry convention - meaning they do a lot of stuff that is primarily
    run by industry reps and leaders. You wont see many panels there done by
    fans or about fan stuff. What you will see is a lot of great info from some of the
    best up-and comming Anime/Manga creators, VA's and artists out there as well
    as previews and exclusives that you might not get elsewhere. There will also
    be a lot of people and a lot more activity. Thats just what being a big convention
    industry grown is all about.

    WE are a fan based convention - meaning our clients in panel and artists alley and
    vendors hall and everything we do are very low key, low budget and high effort
    groups. We do panels about anything and everything, have many different types of
    Guests of Honor and a decent number of activities for our size. As far as I understand
    it we do NOT get corporate funding from the big Anime companies, we do NOT have
    Funamation/bandai/gainax logos all over our staff shirts and K-con merch cause they
    don't pay us to be involved. WE sometimes pay THEM to have some small amount of
    their content and in return we get cool viewings or giveaways or whatever we may
    ask for. And it's all up to them what we get. Most of the stuff is all run by fans for fans.

    That wont change for a good long time, especially because of Sakura-con. Two main
    stream industry cons just could not function in this area, not yet anyway. We'd be
    fighting all the time for content and guests and sponsors and it would be a nightmare,
    and a battle that we'd end up loosing because we would be fighting Sakura-con, who
    HELPS us with most things, and are also already in contracts and negotiations with
    these companies, they would not be likely to break contract with a bigger and better
    convention, if we were to switch over.

    Other than that I'm not sure the bad vibes you get from Sakura-con. Everything is run
    differently, and as far as I've seen Sak may share some of our staff and board, but they
    have a different way for everything! (or almost everything) because everything they do
    is done differently then how we have to do it... their influnce is more of a leg up then
    an elbow in the way...

    It's just kinda hard to see that cause we are in the shadow of our big sister! I know it's
    hard to see the bright shinny new day, because problems will always occur... years of
    epic fail will happen and dreams will be crushed into athousand pieces.... but we are like
    the pheonix... and the rainbow after the storm clouds! We will arise anew! we will defend
    whats ours! And no one can take that belief in the future of our very own Portland/Oregon
    convention away from us! NO ONE!!!

    *takes a breath*

    ....what was I saying?

    Oh yeah... don't stress Sakura-con, it's just a different kind of ramen up there!

    ~Allykat
    2009 - Attendee
    2010 - Facilities Liaison
    2011 - Director of Publicity
    2012 - Director of Publicity
    2013 - Facilities Liaison
    2014 - Vice Chair

    Offline @random

    • Bunnygirl
    • *****
    • Posts: 933
      • Google+
      • Cosplay.com account, dreadfully outdated
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #53 on: November 05, 2009, 12:56:14 pm »
    I am not sure what argument you are refering to in terms of Sak-con...

    But, I will let you know that you needn't worry about Kumoricon becoming
    Sakura-con. At least not in the close years. We don't have the funding, the
    backing, the attendance rate or staffing to be that big. We also have the
    problem of being too close to Sakura-con to justify being just like them.

    They are an industry convention - meaning they do a lot of stuff that is primarily
    run by industry reps and leaders. You wont see many panels there done by
    fans or about fan stuff. What you will see is a lot of great info from some of the
    best up-and comming Anime/Manga creators, VA's and artists out there as well
    as previews and exclusives that you might not get elsewhere. There will also
    be a lot of people and a lot more activity. Thats just what being a big convention
    industry grown is all about.

    WE are a fan based convention - meaning our clients in panel and artists alley and
    vendors hall and everything we do are very low key, low budget and high effort
    groups. We do panels about anything and everything, have many different types of
    Guests of Honor and a decent number of activities for our size. As far as I understand
    it we do NOT get corporate funding from the big Anime companies, we do NOT have
    Funamation/bandai/gainax logos all over our staff shirts and K-con merch cause they
    don't pay us to be involved. WE sometimes pay THEM to have some small amount of
    their content and in return we get cool viewings or giveaways or whatever we may
    ask for. And it's all up to them what we get. Most of the stuff is all run by fans for fans.

    That wont change for a good long time, especially because of Sakura-con. Two main
    stream industry cons just could not function in this area, not yet anyway. We'd be
    fighting all the time for content and guests and sponsors and it would be a nightmare,
    and a battle that we'd end up loosing because we would be fighting Sakura-con, who
    HELPS us with most things, and are also already in contracts and negotiations with
    these companies, they would not be likely to break contract with a bigger and better
    convention, if we were to switch over.

    Other than that I'm not sure the bad vibes you get from Sakura-con. Everything is run
    differently, and as far as I've seen Sak may share some of our staff and board, but they
    have a different way for everything! (or almost everything) because everything they do
    is done differently then how we have to do it... their influnce is more of a leg up then
    an elbow in the way...

    It's just kinda hard to see that cause we are in the shadow of our big sister! I know it's
    hard to see the bright shinny new day, because problems will always occur... years of
    epic fail will happen and dreams will be crushed into athousand pieces.... but we are like
    the pheonix... and the rainbow after the storm clouds! We will arise anew! we will defend
    whats ours! And no one can take that belief in the future of our very own Portland/Oregon
    convention away from us! NO ONE!!!

    *takes a breath*

    ....what was I saying?

    Oh yeah... don't stress Sakura-con, it's just a different kind of ramen up there!

    ~Allykat

    I hope ThiefKingsHier will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what he might be saying is: Because a lot of people who work for Sakura-con also work for or work with Kumoricon, there's a danger of attitude poisoning. (Not just attitude problems created by the situation.)

    From working for WAY too long in retail, I think he has a very legitimate concern - the "bad apple" principle, i.e. one bad apple can spoil the whole barrel. Person 1 is having a bad day and does ABC wrong thing. People 2 and 3 see this and thinks that DEF isn't so wrong, since someone's getting away with ABC. People 4, 5, and 6 see others getting away with ABC and DEF, so is it really that bad to do GHI? And so on... it quickly downspirals, because what "someone else" is doing always looks worse to us than what we're doing.

    But I'm not as worried about it as it might sound, because I believe we already have the antidotes to this in place: 1) People who believe the best of each other; 2) A responsibility-based hierarchy rather than a power-based one. This can be exasperating in its own way, I admit - it's horribly frustrating to bring up legitimate concerns about what a staffer is doing wrong and immediately be greeted with "Well, they were probably just having a bad day" or "Were they being provoked?" But it means that instead of spreading like wildfire (i.e. the above scenario), nasty behavior tends to get damped out very quickly.

    Attendees don't see it, because staff don't want to publicly trash-talk each other, but people who repeatedly act like jerks will get privately asked about it. Most of the time, that itself will be enough to encourage them to tone down. When it's not, usually the person will find themselves increasingly isolated until they either shape up or ship out. It's not an absolute solution - but absolutes work very poorly in a volunteer environment. They're best left to the workplace, where the relationships are ones of power... and I have serious doubts about how effective they are even there. It may not be very heartening to know that so-and-so who yelled at us won't get "written up" for it. But the alternative is to try to make it a hire/fire scenario, with the board being the "owners" and the directors being the "managers," and whoever the directors don't like will get "fired." That would be an absolutely sure-fire way to ruin Kumoricon.

    People don't generally "work" without "reward." At Kumoricon, the reward is feeling like you're making the world a better place for your con family, for people you care about. In the workplace, the reward is money. Take away both, and what do you get? The only staff who'll be willing to stay without getting paid will be the ones who get the "reward" of bossing others around. To get an idea of how well that works, try watching the way ill-paid prison guards usually treat those under their care.

    I'm glad that we have the system as it is now, with the board being more like chaperones and the directors being team leaders who work with their groups instead of bossing them around or arbitrarily deciding who will get "hired" and who will get "fired." It keeps things warm and caring, like a family rather than like a workplace. Sometimes it means that jerky behavior doesn't get stomped on immediately, and that attendees won't get the "vindication" of watching the person who treated them badly get humiliated. But it works a lot better than the alternative. Try to force power into the equation, and you'd very quickly end up with power-tripping staffers who would make the worst of the hotel staff this year look like saints.
    « Last Edit: November 05, 2009, 01:09:46 pm by randompvg »
    This is my serious voice. Otherwise, I'm just another anime fan, not a moderator.

    Offline @random

    • Bunnygirl
    • *****
    • Posts: 933
      • Google+
      • Cosplay.com account, dreadfully outdated
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #54 on: November 05, 2009, 01:12:26 pm »
    much like a parent is conected to a child
    but that does not make the child the parent or vice versa

    Wut? You speak like a politician you know.

    *edited to match above post*

    Hope you don't mind the applied translation, kylite, but:
    A saintly parent may have a jerkarse child.
    A jerkarse parent may have a saintly child.
    Sometimes parents learn from children's mistakes, and vice versa.
    This is my serious voice. Otherwise, I'm just another anime fan, not a moderator.

    Offline kylite

    • Bunnygirl
    • *****
    • Posts: 1287
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #55 on: November 05, 2009, 02:38:59 pm »
    works for me, tho sounds less cryptic *grins*
    Yojimbo Assistant Manager, Hopeless Flirt
    Work: Monday-Friday 12:30-9:39pm
    We don't need Kira... we have kylite.  - randompvg

    Offline xcthulhux

    • Bunnygirl
    • *****
    • Posts: 1436
      • MAI BLOG
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #56 on: November 05, 2009, 03:03:53 pm »
    works for me, tho sounds less cryptic *grins*
    there is that BAness we were talking about >.>

    Offline Hawkeye

    • Catgirl
    • ****
    • Posts: 578
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #57 on: November 05, 2009, 06:49:56 pm »
    not on my watch it doesn't
    Nor will I let it happen on my watch either.  I have done my best in the years to help kylite with the squad and train them into a crack team.  Sometimes people work well in the role of Yojimbo, sometimes they don't.
    "Now I'll show you how real vampires do battle!"


    Offline AllyKat

    • Administrator
    • *******
    • Posts: 804
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #58 on: November 05, 2009, 07:09:54 pm »
    @ Randompvg & TheifKingsHeir:

    To be honest, I don't quite understand all the internal politics associated with
    Sakuracon that make us worry about "attitude poisioning" which, I think, means
    that the cold hard and perhaps sometimes very corporate feel of Sakura-con
    (I make no judgements eitherway mind you, everyone I've met from Sak has
    been super friendly and fun!) may one day infiltrate our little sister convention
    of Kumoricon by way of the volunteer staff that we share?

    If I am right in this deffinition then I feel my previous answer stands; we are just
    too different. That would be like saying just because my brother gets tired of
    drawing art and complains about how stupid drawing anime is and how he prefers
    to do graphic design so much more, that this in turn might push me towards the
    career of graphic design as well. I feel this couldn't be further from the truth!

    Think of it this way; our conventions are fundamentally different, a relatively
    different clientel, (with some percentage of overlap) and different panels and offerings.
    This means that when a staff from Sak works at Kumo, they are getting a different
    experience altogether. Imagine if the con staffing year is aproximately 7 - 8 months
    long, there may be 2 months or so (depending on position) of overlap in duties but
    every 6 months your main focus is a completely different type of convention! Sure
    booking vendors and permisions and planning out fire exists and the like are going to be
    the same (except for venue!) but the basic programing, relations, publicity and operations
    of these conventions are handled very differently! And while my brother may loan me
    his tablet or give me a copy of his art software... I certainly don't use it the same
    way he does. Likewise, we may get some loans from our big sister to the north, but
    how we handle the day to day use is still primarily up to us.

    Think of us kinda like a refuge for the staff of Sakuracon, and think of Sakuracon as
    a practice for the staff here at kumoricon. We are a bit smaller, easier going and very
    fan oriented so it's a much more laxed situation (but not too lax!) whereas they have
    a large attendance group, more events to plan and put on and a lot more industry work
    to put together, which gives our hard working staff a great deal of practice at seeing
    what will need to be done to make K-con run even smoother every year!

    Attitude poisoning can really only happen if you let it. If you are tired of doing the job,
    it'll show in your work ethic and people will not want to be around you. K-con is a fun
    loving group and we subconciously disconnect from those who want to bring us down,
    if you are getting tired of your job and it starts to show, it seems to me that the
    rest of the staff will do everything they can to slide you out and put someone in who
    can do the job. But that takes volunteers, and while we are doing everything we can
    to utilize the ones we have to the best of our abilities, like any even we can always use
    more volunteers!

    I really hope that makes sense, we are the 2 sides to the same coin, anime conventions
    with two different outlooks on anime, and in that effect we are actually perfect for
    eachother. I wont say it again, cause I just keep floating on in my happy circular logic,
    but I'm sure you get the idea. Negativity breeds negativity and as long as there are people
    who WANT to have a good time and want to make the convention amazing and fun, the
    negativity wont stand a chance to breed in our ranks, and new Anime fans are being born
    every single day, coming of age and getting ants in their pants at the very thought of
    volunteering at the conventions... so... we just have to go out and harvest the willing and
    provide the attendees with the show of there lives!

    Man... is it just me or do I have a tendency to create the old "Wall o text" when I get going?

    ~Allykat
    2009 - Attendee
    2010 - Facilities Liaison
    2011 - Director of Publicity
    2012 - Director of Publicity
    2013 - Facilities Liaison
    2014 - Vice Chair

    Offline ha~ma

    • Sailor Scout
    • **
    • Posts: 127
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #59 on: November 06, 2009, 12:02:11 am »
    demanding people stop taking shonen ai photos.
    You say this like it's a bad thing.

    Offline xcthulhux

    • Bunnygirl
    • *****
    • Posts: 1436
      • MAI BLOG
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #60 on: November 06, 2009, 12:02:59 am »
    demanding people stop taking shonen ai photos.
    You say this like it's a bad thing.
    i was waiting for you to find this thread.
    this is not the context i thought it would be in though xD

    Offline @random

    • Bunnygirl
    • *****
    • Posts: 933
      • Google+
      • Cosplay.com account, dreadfully outdated
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #61 on: November 06, 2009, 08:04:12 am »
    @ Randompvg & TheifKingsHeir:

    To be honest, I don't quite understand all the internal politics associated with
    Sakuracon that make us worry about "attitude poisioning" which, I think, means
    that the cold hard and perhaps sometimes very corporate feel of Sakura-con
    (I make no judgements eitherway mind you, everyone I've met from Sak has
    been super friendly and fun!) may one day infiltrate our little sister convention
    of Kumoricon by way of the volunteer staff that we share?

    If I am right in this deffinition then I feel my previous answer stands; we are just
    too different. That would be like saying just because my brother gets tired of
    drawing art and complains about how stupid drawing anime is and how he prefers
    to do graphic design so much more, that this in turn might push me towards the
    career of graphic design as well. I feel this couldn't be further from the truth!

    Think of it this way; our conventions are fundamentally different, a relatively
    different clientel, (with some percentage of overlap) and different panels and offerings.
    This means that when a staff from Sak works at Kumo, they are getting a different
    experience altogether. Imagine if the con staffing year is aproximately 7 - 8 months
    long, there may be 2 months or so (depending on position) of overlap in duties but
    every 6 months your main focus is a completely different type of convention! Sure
    booking vendors and permisions and planning out fire exists and the like are going to be
    the same (except for venue!) but the basic programing, relations, publicity and operations
    of these conventions are handled very differently! And while my brother may loan me
    his tablet or give me a copy of his art software... I certainly don't use it the same
    way he does. Likewise, we may get some loans from our big sister to the north, but
    how we handle the day to day use is still primarily up to us.

    Think of us kinda like a refuge for the staff of Sakuracon, and think of Sakuracon as
    a practice for the staff here at kumoricon. We are a bit smaller, easier going and very
    fan oriented so it's a much more laxed situation (but not too lax!) whereas they have
    a large attendance group, more events to plan and put on and a lot more industry work
    to put together, which gives our hard working staff a great deal of practice at seeing
    what will need to be done to make K-con run even smoother every year!

    Attitude poisoning can really only happen if you let it. If you are tired of doing the job,
    it'll show in your work ethic and people will not want to be around you. K-con is a fun
    loving group and we subconciously disconnect from those who want to bring us down,
    if you are getting tired of your job and it starts to show, it seems to me that the
    rest of the staff will do everything they can to slide you out and put someone in who
    can do the job. But that takes volunteers, and while we are doing everything we can
    to utilize the ones we have to the best of our abilities, like any even we can always use
    more volunteers!

    I really hope that makes sense, we are the 2 sides to the same coin, anime conventions
    with two different outlooks on anime, and in that effect we are actually perfect for
    eachother. I wont say it again, cause I just keep floating on in my happy circular logic,
    but I'm sure you get the idea. Negativity breeds negativity and as long as there are people
    who WANT to have a good time and want to make the convention amazing and fun, the
    negativity wont stand a chance to breed in our ranks, and new Anime fans are being born
    every single day, coming of age and getting ants in their pants at the very thought of
    volunteering at the conventions... so... we just have to go out and harvest the willing and
    provide the attendees with the show of there lives!

    Man... is it just me or do I have a tendency to create the old "Wall o text" when I get going?

    ~Allykat

    I could be wrong, but I think we're saying the same thing from two different angles for why it's not going to happen at Kcon - your "subconsciously disconnect from those who want to bring us down" -> my "find themselves increasingly isolated", and my "nasty behavior tends to get damped out very quickly" = your "negativity won't stand a chance to breed." For that matter, we both parallel kylite and Hawkeye's "not on my watch." And from my experiences in science in grad school a lifetime ago, two or three separate lines of reasoning leading to the same conclusion are much more powerful than one. (^_^)

    And, yeah, Allykat... wall o' texts are a terrible, horrible thing to do! I'd never do that myself...  ::)  More seriously, your passion is a good thing. If you ask me, it's line of reasoning #4 for why Kumoricon will stay Kumoricon.
    This is my serious voice. Otherwise, I'm just another anime fan, not a moderator.

    Offline AllyKat

    • Administrator
    • *******
    • Posts: 804
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #62 on: November 06, 2009, 10:25:56 am »
    lol! awesome! I like it when people have the same feelings as me!
    (Or when I have the same feelings as people!)

    As I say... GO TEAM K-CON!

    Hey, and you are right, the more people with different paths to
    the same conclusion seem to verify the end result! It's good
    logic!

    ~Allykat
    2009 - Attendee
    2010 - Facilities Liaison
    2011 - Director of Publicity
    2012 - Director of Publicity
    2013 - Facilities Liaison
    2014 - Vice Chair

    Offline ThiefKingsHier

    • Catgirl
    • ****
    • Posts: 534
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #63 on: February 14, 2010, 01:12:10 am »
     Yah, this is really late but  I Haven't been here in a while.


    Alley kat - ( Don't really want to quote your entire 'wall of text'

    I get see what your saying and I do agree. It's like Kind of like the difference between AX and Fanime.

    But like AX and Fanime-my concern is the same. AX is falling apart. Surely some of it's staff will want a job with Fanime. As AX has a bigger name (and possibly more experience) they could be placed in higher positions giving them more power. Thus there will be no slow poisoning just an immediate overhaul.


    You say this like it's a bad thing.

    See this kind of intolerance and demanding that EVERYONE else stop doing something that you don't like is what destroyed SC.

    On this topic-someone on SC suggested a yaoi photo shoot.  I told them we should take it outside to avoid trouble.That post was deleted as was' 'slander'. I know, this isn't the a place for 'telling' on others but I consider it more of a lesson on what NOT to do.


    Alleykat, I believe you now NO convention could possibly become as bad as this..I truly hope.

    Offline Cyprus

    • Bunnygirl
    • *****
    • Posts: 1469
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #64 on: February 15, 2010, 09:14:37 am »
    I personally feel that K-con was simply overwhelming to the hotel staff & caused a lot of confusion...that was the reason(although still wrong) for the poor attitude & treatment of con-goers. I also agree with most, & my impression of K-con was not the best(2009 first K-con)...but I have faith that the bugs will be worked out. My G/F & I have already booked our room & registered. As with anything, when there is a big change all of the sudden, you have to expect some glitches in the new system. Give K-con staff a chance to show you that the con you have always loved is still there, just going through some changes to help accomodate the growing popularity of the event.

    As for the hatred for Sakura-con...I must say I just don't understand why lol. I have had nothing but fun there. Not to mention, Seattle is an amazing city so there is a lot to do elsewhere when you are killing time until your next panel.
    « Last Edit: February 16, 2010, 07:03:08 am by Cyprus »

    Offline ThiefKingsHier

    • Catgirl
    • ****
    • Posts: 534
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #65 on: February 15, 2010, 04:11:21 pm »
    I personally feel that K-con was simply overwhelming to the hotel staff & caused a lot of confusion...that was the reason(although still wrong) for the poor attitude & treatment of con-goers. I personally agree with most & my impression of K-con was not the best(2009 first K-con)...but I have faith that the bugs will be worked out. My G/F & I have already booked our room & registered. As with anything, when there is a big change all of the sudden, you have to expect some glitches in the new system. Give K-con staff a chance to show you that the con you have always loved is still there, just going through some changes to help accomodate the growing popularity of the event.

    As for the hatred for Sakura-con...I must say I just don't understand why lol. I have had nothing but fun there. Not to mention, Seattle is an amazing city so there is a lot to do elsewhere when you are killing time until your next panel.

    Yah, I have no intention of letting it ruin my overall opinion of KC. The 'glitches' were just too much of a hassle for me ( mostly because I HATE rain and there was not much room inside) I may not attend next year but I have every intention of retuning after that.

    Well the example i stated pretty much sums up SC as a  whole.
     Sure, SC is great as long as you don't ever suggest/do anything they don't approve of. I live right in down town Seattle above the Uwajimaya. I love my city and wouldn't want live anywhere else.
    It's embarrassing that this great, culturally diverse, open-minded, exciting city has such a convention represent it.

    Offline Cyprus

    • Bunnygirl
    • *****
    • Posts: 1469
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #66 on: February 16, 2010, 07:08:07 am »
    I have friends & family up there that I visit whenever I can so I spend quite a bit of time there already...so I think I am also a bit biased in my opinion of Seattle. But as for Sakura-con, I guess I haven't had any confrontations or anything to give me a negative vibe...I hope that your future experiences are better.

    As for K-con, I'm glad to hear that you aren't giving up on it for good! They need all the support they can get to make these changes & any future changes go more smoothly.

    Offline EveofAbyss

    • Bunnygirl
    • *****
    • Posts: 6159
      • Facebook
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #67 on: February 16, 2010, 08:04:29 am »
    Yah, I have no intention of letting it ruin my overall opinion of KC...I may not attend next year but I have every intention of retuning after that.

    My feelings precisely. I'm taking a year off, but I still love Kumoricon and it is a community that I don't want to shut myself off from. I love what Kumoricon brings to my life. I just want to spend a year "on the bench", so to speak, and let the kinks get straightened out before I become active again.

    So many of the issues I had were venue specific, in no way bound to Kumoricon itself, so when the locale changes, I'll be back.
    « Last Edit: February 16, 2010, 08:05:04 am by EveofAbyss »


    Buy my book of poems!
    Lord Otaku commands you!

    Offline Cyprus

    • Bunnygirl
    • *****
    • Posts: 1469
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #68 on: February 16, 2010, 09:27:43 am »
    I can honestly say that I have stayed at Hilton hotels many many times & have always had nothing but the best of service. My G/F's dad travels a ton & is able to put us up in Hilton hotels for free when we travel & we love it. I think that they just weren't ready for what was to come. Now that they have an idea what to expect & that there will be a cap on registrations, I think this year will go much smoother.

    Offline nikkiolie

    • It's over nine THOUSAND!!!!!
    • ******
    • Posts: 15368
      • Facebook
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #69 on: February 16, 2010, 10:12:29 am »
    I think that limiting the number of people will help a lot. I also think that not double booking the hotel will help a lot too XD

    Offline Cyprus

    • Bunnygirl
    • *****
    • Posts: 1469
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #70 on: February 16, 2010, 11:12:07 am »
    I think that limiting the number of people will help a lot. I also think that not double booking the hotel will help a lot too XD
    Oh ya...almost forgot about that part...that would definately be a good thing lol.

    Offline AllyKat

    • Administrator
    • *******
    • Posts: 804
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #71 on: February 16, 2010, 01:29:38 pm »
    I think that limiting the number of people will help a lot. I also think that not double booking the hotel will help a lot too XD
    Oh ya...almost forgot about that part...that would definately be a good thing lol.

    Yup, which is what we have made sure of as team this year. We have the main tower almost exclusively to ourselves.

    (I say almost because of course there are going to be random individuals who may have a room or two here or there
    that we don't use, but no big groups!)

    I really like this, it makes movement in the elevators, stairways and walk ways make more sense because time tables and
    events will keep things running smooth as possible where people want to go to certain "destination" events or panels and
    can get there with the flow of traffic!

    ~Allykat
    2009 - Attendee
    2010 - Facilities Liaison
    2011 - Director of Publicity
    2012 - Director of Publicity
    2013 - Facilities Liaison
    2014 - Vice Chair

    Offline superjaz

    • Bunnygirl
    • *****
    • Posts: 4207
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #72 on: February 16, 2010, 05:07:12 pm »
    its easy to complain about what didnt work, its hard to get  involved and try to fix it
    superjaz, that is jaz with one z count'um ONE z!
    Proud mom of 2 awesome kids

    Offline ZombieFace

    • Sailor Scout
    • **
    • Posts: 100
      • Jailbreak Designs / Photography
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #73 on: February 17, 2010, 04:02:36 pm »
    I am not sure I will be attending this next years KumoriCon.  I have gone the last 5 or 6 years and it is my home con, but nearly the entire experience was jaded for me.  I stayed in the other hotel across the street that was MUCH MUCH more friendly to exit and enter.. However, I had friends in the main hotel and I could not go visit their room AT ALL because the lines for the elevators were soooo so bad.

    Every time I think I may want to come I remember this photo I took that summarized the con:




    I was photographing like crazy at the con this which allowed me to meet a great amount of new people and get many great shots.. It's just too bad that the main topic of conversation was the complaints and horror stories.   

    I suppose it just depends..  *sigh*


    ~JailBreak Photography~
    www.jailbreakdesigns.com

    Offline Coconutty93

    • Bunnygirl
    • *****
    • Posts: 3780
      • I will reject your reality and substitute it with my own...here.
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #74 on: February 17, 2010, 07:23:08 pm »
    I'm surprised the cop guy didn't let you guys off the hook because of the scantily-clad ladies. I mean, I'm sure he doesn't see that type of thing often. xD

    oslapedo

    • Guest
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #75 on: February 17, 2010, 07:25:55 pm »
    Haha~

    Offline Bresslol

    • Catgirl
    • ****
    • Posts: 417
      • Facebook
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #76 on: February 19, 2010, 10:14:08 pm »
    I personally feel that K-con was simply overwhelming to the hotel staff & caused a lot of confusion...that was the reason(although still wrong) for the poor attitude & treatment of con-goers. I personally agree with most & my impression of K-con was not the best(2009 first K-con)...but I have faith that the bugs will be worked out. My G/F & I have already booked our room & registered. As with anything, when there is a big change all of the sudden, you have to expect some glitches in the new system. Give K-con staff a chance to show you that the con you have always loved is still there, just going through some changes to help accomodate the growing popularity of the event.

    As for the hatred for Sakura-con...I must say I just don't understand why lol. I have had nothing but fun there. Not to mention, Seattle is an amazing city so there is a lot to do elsewhere when you are killing time until your next panel.

    Yah, I have no intention of letting it ruin my overall opinion of KC. The 'glitches' were just too much of a hassle for me ( mostly because I HATE rain and there was not much room inside) I may not attend next year but I have every intention of retuning after that.

    Well the example i stated pretty much sums up SC as a  whole.
     Sure, SC is great as long as you don't ever suggest/do anything they don't approve of. I live right in down town Seattle above the Uwajimaya. I love my city and wouldn't want live anywhere else.
    It's embarrassing that this great, culturally diverse, open-minded, exciting city has such a convention represent it.

    Yeah, Sak's pretty terrible.

    I mean, all that culturally relevant stuff they do, and the fact that they are opening up more 18+ programming. It's like they don't listen to anyone these days.


    Like Conventional Improv on Facebook!

    Offline AllyKat

    • Administrator
    • *******
    • Posts: 804
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #77 on: February 20, 2010, 03:50:15 pm »
    Yeah, Sak's pretty terrible.

    I mean, all that culturally relevant stuff they do, and the fact that they are opening up more 18+ programming. It's like they don't listen to anyone these days.


    Dont forget how often they help out smaller conventions in the northwest, and their proffessionalism in the greater convention and japanese industry. They really make you feel like with $25 bucks and a bucket of nails you could make a much better convention ^_^

    Everyone is always going to have their own opinion, and things are going to get on someones nerves that actually make the convention for others, it's the way of life. I can't convince everyone that, for seperate reasons, Sakuracon is amazing, and Kumoricon is too. It's not possible, because life happens, and you wont always get the superb experience I have had. (Also, most people aren't as sickly optimistic and easily enthused as I am, which tends to make their critiques harsher)

    I say, whatever you feel, good... feel it, but remember that thats your opinion from your experiences, and that new experiences could change that feeling, and you should never count out an oppourtunity only because of past experiences. The future is what should be most important.

    ~Allykat
    2009 - Attendee
    2010 - Facilities Liaison
    2011 - Director of Publicity
    2012 - Director of Publicity
    2013 - Facilities Liaison
    2014 - Vice Chair

    Offline Cyprus

    • Bunnygirl
    • *****
    • Posts: 1469
    Re: Big dissappointment, wont be attending next year...
    « Reply #78 on: February 22, 2010, 07:26:36 am »
    I say, whatever you feel, good... feel it, but remember that thats your opinion from your experiences, and that new experiences could change that feeling, and you should never count out an oppourtunity only because of past experiences. The future is what should be most important.

    ~Allykat
    THIS^  ;)