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Convention Events and Programming => Anime, Manga, and Japanese Media and Culture => Topic started by: melchizedek on January 10, 2010, 07:20:24 am
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Science fiction, it tends to be full of gimmicks that they 'educate' us on. But for someone like me who has a technical eye and knows a thing or two about physics I tend to enjoy fantasy better because there is no need for gimmicks, just make up something fake and focus on the story.
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SF tends to be riddled with scientific inaccuracies, and fantasy tends to be riddled with poor understandings of preindustrial peoples, so it's sort of a no-win for me. But I like the sheer spectacle of fantasy better than the exploration of space.
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lololol this thread.
Fantasy includes Harry Potter, so...~
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Hm...
For me, I think it's always going to vary from book to book.
Take Sphere and The Andromeda Strain , both by Michael Crichton, they have completely different subject matter, and yet are both considered Sci-fi.
There are books such as Enchantress of the Stars that become unclassifiable, so do they fall on one side or the other?
The only conclusion that I came to is that it's a bit easier to compare mediums than it is to compare genres.
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Hm...
For me, I think it's always going to vary from book to book.
Take Sphere and The Andromeda Strain , both by Michael Crichton, they have completely different subject matter, and yet are both considered Sci-fi.
There are books such as Enchantress of the Stars that become unclassifiable, so do they fall on one side or the other?
The only conclusion that I came to is that it's a bit easier to compare mediums than it is to compare genres.
I think this is why the Sci-Fi and Fantasy genres are together in the bookstores.
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Some people take classification too serious. Anyone that has ever argued about whether Star Wars is Fantasy or Science Fiction is taking things too seriously.
Are there spaceships? Call it scifi.
Is there magic? Call it call it fantasy.
I personally like scifi better because I like space. If a story wants to be taken seriously as a hard science novel then the science needs to be grounded in actual fact and only introduce one thing that doesn't exist (like FTL flight or "perfect" cloning) or else things start getting too softer and the movie will have to work extra hard to make up for it. If a scifi doesn't really care bout the science because it's not important to the story, then I still enjoy it as a comedy or action movie and don't worry about the science.
Armageddon was an action movie. Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy was a comedy. Both were also scifi.
The only people that get in arguments about whether a story is Fantasy or not are hisltory buffs. That's a whole other ball of flaming pitch.
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The problem with sci-fi media, and even more so with hard science, is that if it is accurate, it's only a matter of time before it immediately becomes outdated. It may still be "accurate" to the degree of technology, but that might've been four months ago. Now the concept is a comedy.
Take the movie HACKERS for instance. I cry whenever I see that, and I don't know if it's because it's so funny or so sad that the technology back then ment a 56k modem.
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Are there spaceships? Call it scifi.
Is there magic? Call it call it fantasy.
Final Fantasy IV has a Lunar Whale (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Lunar_Whale). And magic. So what is it?
(I mean, other than the series being the pinnacle of storytelling and gameplay, an ideal merging of "genres". I mean, what is it, by your criteria? :))
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Are there spaceships? Call it scifi.
Is there magic? Call it call it fantasy.
Final Fantasy IV has a Lunar Whale (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Lunar_Whale). And magic. So what is it?
(I mean, other than the series being the pinnacle of storytelling and gameplay, an ideal merging of "genres". I mean, what is it, by your criteria? :))
Uh, it's got Fantasy in the title, so...??? lol
from the Oxford English Dictionary.
"f. A genre of literary compositions.
1949 (title) The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction. 1954 M. F. RODELL Mystery Fiction ii. 4 Mysteries belong to the vast category of escape fiction. Westerns, ‘romances’, historical novels, and fantasies (other than satires) all belong in the same category. 1955 F. BROWN Angels & Spaceships 9 Fantasy deals with things that are not and cannot be. Science fiction deals with things that can be, that some day may be."
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Uh, it's got Fantasy in the title, so...??? lol
But the Lunar Whale is a spaceship.
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There's galactic whales in Macross 7. And even a captain Ahab character. Yes, the big whale is white too. So would this be a sci-fi plain fiction literature crossover? lol
But then I guess the Iliad could be considered sci-fi, as Homer had something like machine people who served the gods in it. Not really too sure, only have read the Dan Simmons series that sci-fi's them. Or should I say, time travels? Dunno good reads, about as good as his Hyperion series.
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Hmm...well...I like both but I'm not much info space n stuff...so I would say I like fantasy better..I like some SciFi..like alternate whatevers but that is also fantasy :P most of the time I only care about this is for when I'm choosing books anyway soo
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I was wondering how many posts it would take. I'm glad it was you that opened this can of worms Jeff.
Uh, it's got Fantasy in the title, so...??? lol
But the Lunar Whale is a spaceship.
Should've referenced the space shuttle in FF8. That one has time travel too though, so who even KNOWS?
IMNSHO the Final Fantasy games should each be judged individually. Even then Fantasy and Scifi wouldn't usually be what I would pick for the games.
Here's my take FF1-5 and the Gamecube one would still be fantasy (haven't played the old ones on DS yet, sorry, I accept the loss of credibility), FF8 would bescifi, FF6 and FF12 (et al) and the Tactics is steampunk, FF7et al is more dieselpunk, FF9 would be fantasy as well, but only a few steps back from FF6's steampunk, FFX/X-2 are teen dramas, everything I've seen from FF13 points to scifi.
FF11 and 14 ar both online games and would be fantasy, but lame fantasy. :P
Being that my argument was mostly for movies and somewhat for books, I'll say that Spirits Within and FFUnlimited are scifi.
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I was just teasing you because of your spaceships/magic rule, Tom. :)
In seriousness, I don't assign genres much to video game plots--I think of the genre of the game (which of course I realize is a different matter)--RPG in this case.
If I had to pick I would definitely consider the Final Fantasys much more fantasy than sci-fi, as the tech is glossed over and highly anachronistic (though less and less so as the series has progressed), and the focus in the story is on the spiritual, mythical, and the magic.
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Oh lordy, are you guys EVER barking up my tree. I'm an aspiring writer and I LOVE fantasy. I'm currently on talking books listening to The Tamaraire adventures by Kate Novak. I'm also very big into Terry Brooks and Terry Prachett as well as Mercedes Lackey. Sad thing is ever since Hercules and Xena no one has tried their hand at creating a good quality fantasy series. I think Legend of the Seeker has been canned. And it's such a pity because if T.V. tried I think they could produce a good fantasy epic. And perha[s start down the path towards getting off it's addiction to sur-reality T.V.
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What is Fantasy and what is Sci-fi? Boy what a can-o-worms that one is. I personally find it fun when the author mixes them up so much you can't decide. Christopher Stasheff wrote his series of Warlock of Gramarye books about a medieval society of espers who colonized a planet that had a type of flora that could be molded by dreaming. As the espers dreamt their thoughts took form and created fantasy creatures. When the main character shows up in a spaceship he is on a planet of fairies, witches, unicorns, dragons, goblins, and anything else you can imagine. So Sci-fi or Fantasy?
Another book that is interesting is James P. Hogans Code of the Lifemaker. This is a book about an alien civilizations factory ship that is exposed to high radiation from the same super nova that destroyed the civilization that created it. It wanders through space and eventually lands on Saturn's moon Titan. Here it creates a factory to start mining and produces robots to build it all. Because of the damage to it's memory files the robots are defective and many times they start acting in strange ways. They become a predator and prey analogy, as well as two robots being required to replicate the code needed to produce a new robot of a similar type due to the main computer constantly erasing files as it produces robots. Much later the robots have evolved into an almost medieval society of machines that use organic material to construct their tools and vehicles. Then humans land on Titan, and the fun begins. OK, I admit this can't be anything but Sci-fi, but I love how it takes place in a medieval type of background, with a lot of political and religious intrigue.
I think my favorite fantasy series has to be David Eddings - The Belgariad. This is still my ideal when it comes to quest fantasy. ;D
For a good humor tale that I still feel deserves an anime or theater release, you can't beat Patricia C. Wrede - The Enchanted Forest Chronicles. This series just screams make a movie out of me! :o
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I'm definitely on the fantasy side of the fence. I love SciFi, but it tends to get old very quickly. So, I guess I like SciFi only in certain places (Star Wars, or when it is a supplement to horror). Fantasy can catch me up with much more ease. I just feel drawn in to the past more than the future (fantasy tends to be "old world" while SciFi is "the final frontier"/future). Give me a horse-drawn carriage over a galactic spaceship any day. Setting is what makes the difference for me. I can appreciate almost any plot, but I just don't enjoy the cold/metallic, futuristic aspect as much as the warm, earthy feeling common to fantasy.
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I like Speculative Fiction.
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Hey Wuntvor great taste with the Belgariad series. I actually have a copy of the series.
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Science fiction, it tends to be full of gimmicks that they 'educate' us on. But for someone like me who has a technical eye and knows a thing or two about physics I tend to enjoy fantasy better because there is no need for gimmicks, just make up something fake and focus on the story.
Meh,it's debatable on my part with this.In most cases the Sci Fi is much better imo as if you give a twist of Fantasy on how might it could be real in a sense of "educating" or giving a hidden message to the viewers would be better,or those people who are just lazy and don't care and watch. :P everyone is different, I guess I like that...sometimes XD
But the funny thing is you don't need to know certain things to like a genre or simply get,you can just love it like how people like dragons and such.
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I've been reading both since the early 60's. I like both, and can be annoyed by bad writing or inconsistencies or gaping holes in either genre. Nowadays there's a lot of overlap, too. And some of the classic writers even back in the 50's pushed the boundaries between the two. I started off reading Andre Norton, Ray Bradbury, Arthur C. Clark and some Heinlein. I also read the some of the REAL early sf: I don't know how many times I read H.G. Wells War of the Worlds, for example. Andre Norton certainly mixed SF and Fantasy (her Witchworld series is a good example, although that became more and more fantasy). (Oh, and a side note, for anyone who's a fan of AVATAR, the James Cameron epic movie. Go read Andre Norton's Judgment on Janus and Victory on Janus. Cameron thinks he's original—there's LOTS of previous writers who did the same sort of story!)
Sorry, got sidetracked. ::)
I just saw the movie Inception this weekend: WOW. But is it straight science fiction? Or is more fantasy? Can we really influence dreams that way? And do we even know what the "real" world is? (I won't say anymore about that because I don't want to be a spoiler for anyone who hasn't see it. Really, go see it, it's superb!)
Science fiction isn't just aliens and spaceships of course. There's lots of other possibilities (the whole subgenre of Cyberpunk is an example: I recommend Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash).
Anyone want more examples or book recommendations? I read all sorts of stuff. ;D
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I'm VERY big into fantasy. But if you want to talk Sci-fi you can't go wrong with Sci-fi's grand dame, Anne McCaffrey. I've been listening to her works on talking books for years and she is a tremendous storyteller.
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I have always liked both. I think I probably have more fantasy though. Sci-Fi has to have a certain "feel" to it to get me interested. One of my favorite sci-fi writers is C .J. Cherryh. I like her Chanur series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chanur_Novels) and her Foreigner series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreigner_universe). I think what I like best is the fact that the aliens are well thought out. The reader is given the events from the aliens perspective. The humans are the aliens. You don't see that in most other works.
My other favorite is Elizabeth Moon. I like her Familias Regnant series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Familias_Regnant_universe) and her Vatta's War series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatta%27s_War). She is a great writer of galactic wide political intrigue and space combat. George Lucas could learn a lot from her. Her main characters are all women. There are a few male characters, but they really aren't the ones the story revolves around. If you like kick-butt women in your stories, check out these books. ;D
Also read Isaac Asimov, Robert Heinlein, James P. Hogan, and Larry Niven.
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I personally prefer Sci-Fi more, because I can relate to it more, as one who got into science in school. Right now, I'm watching an episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation, one that is considered to be one of the best of all time. (Patrick, you'll know it; it's the one where the Enterprise C got sucked into a time rift, causing the Federation to be at war with the Klingon Empire).
Fantasy often involves things that I've never gotten into much. Fairies, dragons, stuff like that, those are hoaky to me. I can enjoy this type of thing from time to time; it depends on my mood and what's special about the thing. Slayers, for example, is great. A heroine that defies the stereotype of anime heroines, who is a glutton, and hangs out with the coolest evil good guy ever! Even that one, though, has some sci-fi in it, but not too much.
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This thread makes me happy. Now I shall teleport all of you to the Creation Station at Orycon, where Prinz Eugen & I have been talking about holding "Intro to Anime: Sci-Fi" & "Intro to Anime: Fantasy" so y'all can tell us what to show in each ;)
Anyway.
So hm, speculative fiction, I've heard the term, not sure I have a lock on what it means officially?
My faves include utopian & dystopian novels. In high school, my fave class was "Satire & Man's Search for Utopia" (along with Spanish & Marching Band....geek much?). Candide, 1984, Animal Farm, Brave New World...oy vey...*shudders*....love the Eurythmics soundtrack to the 1984 film, btw.
....ok so really, who might want to help with those at Orycon?
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So Rem, you are looking for suggestions that "Fit the mold" so to speak? Hmm...
Anime - Sci-Fi
Chobits - I still think of this anime as one of my favorites. It is also one of the best for "android" style sci-fi.
Eve no Jikan - If you aren't using Chobits then this is "The show" for androids. Very Asimov. An anme that makes you question, "What defines a human?".
Starship Operators - Not very popular, but probably the most Star Trek like anime out there. Did Roddenberry write this show?
Planetes - This one is in the not so distant future. Not so far fetched as most anime.
Anime - Fantasy
Slayers - Pretty self explanitory, this show is the epitome of fantasy.
Kemono no Souja Erin - By the same author as Seirei no Moribito. I think both are worthy of best fantasy anime.
The 12 Kingdoms - Another popular fantasy anime.
Tears to Tiara - Is an anime that almost tries to hard to be fantasy. It goes to extremes to have everything. ::)
You wont have time to talk about or show every anime there is, but I think these are pretty fair representations. I didn't go into the entire spectrum of Mecha anime, or the space battle anime, there are so many, and everyone has their favorites. Macross and Gundam, Captain Harlock, Voltron, Zoids, the list goes on and on. There is also the entire "Magical Girl" series of anime. These can be classified as fantasy. How you want to classify vampires and aliens is up to you. Plenty of anime about both.
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Well the only person I know who has as wide a knowledge base as you, Prinz Eugen, is involved, so I am sure he has no end of examples! But I will 'send' this thread to myself to remind myself to look up everything you mention......BTW if you have any favorites you want to recommend I briefly research for Religion in Anime & Manga, let me know!
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Ha anyone been reading David Drake's fantasy works? He is noted for his military sci-fi, but his Lord of the Isles series was pretty good. He use ancient Roman magic in his works. He says he does not speak the spells aloud, as these are direct translations, and he really does not want to cast spells.
He has a new fantasy series, that mixes up Roman with Norse mythology. I find it way cool.
But I still like his space opera series Republic of Cinnabar more.
Speculative Fiction???
How about Eric Flint's Ring of Fire universe? Dump a small West Virginia town in 1630s Germany, right after the battle of Magdeburg. heh heh heh
Or S.M. Stirling's works? I saw this book titled Meeting At Corvallis, I just had to read, as I know of no other Corvallis. Way cool to read books that center on Oregon, even if it's post-apocalyptic.
I guess Terry Brooks goes that way in his Genesis of Shannara series. Have yet to read the last one, I think.
Ack! I almost forgot, again.
E.E. "Doc" Smith's Lensmen series. THey made some anime of that way back when. Of course it begs the anime/ manga/ books debate. sigh. That was one of those things that was much better to read when 13 than 40 something. but oh well.
IMHO the best single fantasy novel ever was The Worm Ouroboros (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Worm_Ouroboros) by E.R. Eddison. And no, you cannot borrow my copy.
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Hey Jay: I hear you about the Lensmen series! I read those first in early high school, when the older sister of a friend found out I was into science fiction. She "dumped" a lot of books on me, both SF and Fantasy, and she was the one that introduced me to Lensmen, which I've actually reread at least a dozen times. But you sorta have to be in a particular mood to read them, since they are rather hokey by today's standards.
And as for speculative fiction, it's the term coined to cover everything that is like Science Fiction but may not be easily classified as such. Alternative Histories are a good example, as you sited.
I've read a little bit of Stirling. Tried David Drake but don't like his work much. Love CJ Cherryh (whose real last name is Cherry, but when she first broke into the SF field, sold to DAW books, Donald A Wollheim, the founder, said a woman SF writer with the name Caroline Cherry would never be taken seriously—sounds like a cheesy romance writer.)
Tried to read a bit of Terry Brook's Shannara series, but :P
Much prefer the original fantasy epic writer, Tolkien of course.
Could go on much longer!
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Some of the books that have most stood out to me:
Fahrenheit 451, Ray Bradbury
The Magic Goes Away, Larry Niven
Flow My Tears, the Policeman Said, Philip K. Dick
The Wheel of Time Series (though I still have to get to everything starting with book 4),
Robert Jordan
Woman on the Edge of Time, Marge Piercy
The next movie to which I am really looking forward (well, besides that I still *must* see Sorcerer's Apprentice & Scott Pilgrim Saves the World), is The Adjustment Bureau, based on The Adjustment Team, Philip K. Dick
Among the movies with the biggest impact on my life as a kid were Blade Runner (especially since I grew up with the kids of one of the art directors...really), Tron, of course it goes without saying the original Star Wars Trilogy, Hackers.
This thread is making me squee about having Orycon & MEW Con to look forward to. I needed the squee. Thanks for the squee!
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Rem: Thanks for the reminder about Fahrenheit 451! Powerful book. Of course I like a lot of other Bradbury, such as the Martian Chronicles, the short story collection R is for Rocket (I think that one has the Sound of Thunder). I've had luck to hear a talk by him and meet him in person.
The Magic Goes Away is good, but I think the Ringworld books are better (i can tell some interesting stories about Mr. Niven.)
Which reminds me another fave, both as fantasy and sf writer, is Poul Anderson. Another marvelous author I got to meet and talk with at several conventions.
Amy
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Rem and Fractal, you need to meet Donald Ahlquist. He is a regular at my Anime Friday meetings. He is on first name basis with most of the Sci-Fi and Fantasy authors on this coast, many of them are in his cell phones contact list. He only buys First Edition Hardback, many of them signed. He also has dabbled in the publishing industry. I doubt he will attend KumoriCon, but I have suggested it to him. He mainly likes to watch anime and purchase merchandise. Cosplay and panels don't interest him. The week you came to Anime Friday Rem was when he was in the hospital. Unfortunate, since I think the two of you would probably spend the entire evening chatting. (He usually watches all the shows in RAW format before I get the subs) ::) Still, I get some things he hasn't heard about, and he keeps me informed about quite a few things I didn't know about. ;D
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@ Amy, we should meet & you should for sure tell me your Niven stories. I have The Mote in G-d's Eye, which he co-wrote, but haven't gotten around to reading it. I also had started Terry Pratchet's Men at Arms, really enjoyed it, but then got super busy, haven't gone back to finishing it.
I had started Philip K. Dick's Ubik, but then my neighbor, whose book it was, asked for it back.
I used to be much better at reading things entirely through in one sitting.......
@ Wuntvor, I do plan to come regularly in cool/rainy season. Possibly starting as early as 9/24, which, not coincidentally, is my bday (if I do come that day I might want to bring cake or something and maybe some friends). How amazing, I would love to meet that fellow & hope his time in the hospital went okay. I mean, how could I not want to meet someone who, when you Google him as a publisher, the first thing that comes up is "Thong the Barbarian Meets the Cycle Sluts of Saturn." And nope, I didn't make that up. Kinda would've been fun if I had, though.
Lest you think I jest: http://themanwhonevermissed.blogspot.com/2010/01/thong-barbarian-meets-cycle-sluts-of.html
As the coordinator of the Creation Station at Orycon for, now, my 2nd year, I am thrilled that Orycon is where the spoof manuscript was read aloud, prompting it to be published.
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I just read on David Weber's site that he will be continuing his War God fantasy series.
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@ Wuntvor, I do plan to come regularly in cool/rainy season. Possibly starting as early as 9/24, which, not coincidentally, is my bday (if I do come that day I might want to bring cake or something and maybe some friends). How amazing, I would love to meet that fellow & hope his time in the hospital went okay. I mean, how could I not want to meet someone who, when you Google him as a publisher, the first thing that comes up is "Thong the Barbarian Meets the Cycle Sluts of Saturn." And nope, I didn't make that up. Kinda would've been fun if I had, though.
Lest you think I jest: http://themanwhonevermissed.blogspot.com/2010/01/thong-barbarian-meets-cycle-sluts-of.html
As the coordinator of the Creation Station at Orycon for, now, my 2nd year, I am thrilled that Orycon is where the spoof manuscript was read aloud, prompting it to be published.
Um, yeah... Is it a good time to mention he gave me a copy of this, "All of these are collectors' items today. If you can find somebody willing to part with one, it will be a spendy proposition, lemme tell you. It's so rare it's not even on ebay" book?
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*Giggles* Okay when I make it to your house (end of Sept or early Oct) I really must take a gander at it.
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I hate to be the one to mention that although final fantasy and warcraft both have time travel and airships and guns and even lasers and stuff it is usually powered by magic. On a topic actually RELATED to the original, I usually bounce around between Fantasy and Sci'Fi depending on my mood. To me Fantasy has more familiar steriotypes and is what I read when I'm in the mood for a predictible rompy adventure. Sci-Fi on the other hand has much more petential for gratly imagined univereses and to me has much mroe variety.
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Just curious where y'all rate my new devout fave, Doctor Who (modern era).
I'd say Fantasy, but there certainly are elements of both, IMHO (e.g., the Cybermen).
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Dr. Who. Unfortunately I haven't watched any recent Dr. Who shows. I know I should, but haven't had time. I'm kinda old school on that show, I still love the Tom Baker Who the best. I think the show is science fiction, but with fantasy twists.
For another show: what about StarGate SG1? We finally acquired the complete set, plus two of the post-series movies, and are gradually working our way through the show (I came into it after SciFi Channel [now the ridiculous SyFy]) took over).
Also, just so folks know, I was a pretty hardcore Star Trek fan for a loooonnnngggg time. A trekkie when I started (OMG! Getting to meet almost all the original Trek stars—George Takei, Sulu, was my fave as far as getting to meet someone from the show. What a sweetie!), but later just called myself a Star Trek fan (a trekkie, to my mind, is someone who thinks Star Trek is the Be All and End All of SF tv shows. I, on the other hand, long with most of my Trek fan friends, could still love the show despite some big flaws, especially most of the third season.) I also produced a mostly Star Trek fanzine; first few issues coedited, then did the last few on my own. Typed the thing up on an IBM Selectric II clone! (and our first issue was mostly printed on a Roneo Electric Mimeograph!)
Hmm, I think I am giving away my age here. ::)
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Dr Who is most certainly Sci-Fi with PARANORMAL thrown into it. Advanced tech', alien invaders, time machines yea seems pretty Sci-fi to me.
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I don't think I've ever seen a mimeograph.
I guess my own unspoken short hand has been:
If the author / producer explicates to the audience how what is portrayed that is not presently possible on Earth could be possible, then I think of it as sci-fi; if they start from suspended disbelief without any explication, or if the reason what is portrayed is supposed to work is simply "because it's magic" or "because it's alien", then it's fantasy.
So to me, simply accepting that the TARDIS works because it was grown on Gallifrey, is fantasy.
If there are episodes I just haven't seen yet, where what makes the Gallifrey-grown TARDIS function, is explained, in terms of actual, theoretical, or entirely fictional physics, then I would think of that portion of it as sci-fi.
The revisiting of actual historical events and figures, in somewhat fanciful lights, also feels more like fantasy to me.
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Dr. Who oh boy. I have been watching Dr. Who since the days of Dr. Who #4 Tom Baker.
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Diana Wynne Jones, anyone?
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Yes! Definitely Yes to Diana Wynne Jones! She's wonderful.
For those of you who like young adult writers (Diana Wynne Jones falls into that category), I also recommend Bruce Coville, Jane Yolen (she writes everything from early readers up to adults, and many of her works are in the style of true old fairytales), Sherwood Smith (a pseudonym), and of course I think I mentioned earlier, Andre Norton (I grew up reading her works).
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Science fiction, it tends to be full of gimmicks that they 'educate' us on. But for someone like me who has a technical eye and knows a thing or two about physics I tend to enjoy fantasy better because there is no need for gimmicks, just make up something fake and focus on the story.
Meh,it's debatable on my part with this.In most cases the Sci Fi is much better imo as if you give a twist of Fantasy on how might it could be real in a sense of "educating" or giving a hidden message to the viewers would be better,or those people who are just lazy and don't care and watch. :P everyone is different, I guess I like that...sometimes XD
But the funny thing is you don't need to know certain things to like a genre or simply get,you can just love it like how people like dragons and such.
I do lufs the dagrons :)